Also, are there any new spells of regular play? Or is it all Mythic Spells?
Aside from the specific Vessel Spells for the Animist, we get 2 focus Spells for the Vindicator Archetype and 1 focus spell for the Seneschal Archetype.
All other Spells (and Rituals) have the Mythic tag.
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Also, are there any new spells of regular play? Or is it all Mythic Spells?Aside from the specific Vessel Spells for the Animist, we get 2 focus Spells for the Vindicator Archetype and 1 focus spell for the Seneschal Archetype.
All other Spells (and Rituals) have the Mythic tag.
What kind of Mythic rituals are we looking at?
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I have some Exemplar questions. Did these ikons change since the playtest?:
Eye-Catching Spot
Barrow's Edge
Restless as the Tide
Skybearer's BeltThanks!
General changes: All Transcendence actions gained the Transcendence trait.
Eye catching Spot - Captivating Charm gained the Concentrate trait. All else is unchanged.
Barrow's Edge - Immanence now grants 1 spirit damage per die normally, but it increases to 3 spirit damage per die if the enemy is below 50% HP. You know if an enemy is below 50% HP if they're within your Barrow's Edge Reach. All else unchanged.
Restless as the Tide - Changed Completely, and is now no longer tied to a Weapon Ikon (none of the Epiphets are). Now gives you Energised Spark (a feat that changes all Spirit damage from Exemplar abilities to another damage type) for your choice of water (bludgeoning damage) or cold (cold damage). The old Immanence effect now applies any time you Critically Succeed on a Strike. Any time you Spark Transcendence, you can Step. If your Transcendence effect damaged an enemy, you can move them 5 feet instead (Fortitude v Class DC negates). If you move an enemy and they were adjacent to you, you can Step into the space they vacated.
Skybearer's Belt - Immanence changed to granting you Titan Wrestler's effect, plus a +1 circumstance bonus to Grapple/Trip/Shove, and +1 to your Fortitude/Reflex DC to resist those maneuvers. Transcendence remains mostly the same, but you ignore an ally's bulk when carrying them and you can Climb, Fly or Swim if you have the corresponding speed.
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What kind of Mythic rituals are we looking at?Also, are there any new spells of regular play? Or is it all Mythic Spells?Aside from the specific Vessel Spells for the Animist, we get 2 focus Spells for the Vindicator Archetype and 1 focus spell for the Seneschal Archetype.
All other Spells (and Rituals) have the Mythic tag.
Create Demiplane (rank 8).
Exactly what it says on the tin. Keep casting it to give more features/area on your demiplane.
Are the old 1e time dilation exploits back?!
What kind of Mythic rituals are we looking at?Also, are there any new spells of regular play? Or is it all Mythic Spells?Aside from the specific Vessel Spells for the Animist, we get 2 focus Spells for the Vindicator Archetype and 1 focus spell for the Seneschal Archetype.
All other Spells (and Rituals) have the Mythic tag.
Create Demiplane (rank 8).
Exactly what it says on the tin. Keep casting it to give more features/area on your demiplane.
Are the old 1e time dilation exploits back?!
They honestly should be because they're a plot point in a published adventure, but you can't change the Time trait of the Demiplane at all, so I assume it's Normal 1:1 time.
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** spoiler omitted **Osirian and Hags zoinked away.I too would like to know cuz Damn! Looks like a cleric character concept of mine might be soon be godless!Any more lore on the Godsrain that we didn't know about? Effects of Gorum's death, other dieties who died?Anyone? I saw someone replied to my comment about orc gods, but from another source. I also heard rumours elsewhere of Osirian and hag gods dying. What is in this specific book? I want to know which gods die besides Gorum.Okaay…but how?? What happened?!?? All I heard is
** spoiler omitted **That’s some major kitchen sink right there!! There’s nothing even remotely connecting the Osirion Pantheon to the Hag pantheon. TBH it seems mostly informed byreal life wishes of the company than something organic to the setting— which is okay —just needs greater explanation and massaging of the differences in trope.
I just read that section in the PDF. The phrase "another world both like and unlike our own where the gods came to rest" is certainly interesting because I initially was thinking about Earth (even if it didn't make total sense), though the fact that these deities don't give powers anymore wouldn't make sense for Earth. The only other place that "both like and unlike our own" would be Androffa, and since we know next to nothing about it as far as we know it could be trapped like Golarion is implied to be trapped in Starfinder lore. I'm curious though in what impact this has on Earth, since it can be assumed there has to be some small sect or cult that worships the Osirian (or well, Egyptian) gods there.
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** spoiler omitted **Osirian and Hags zoinked away.I too would like to know cuz Damn! Looks like a cleric character concept of mine might be soon be godless!Any more lore on the Godsrain that we didn't know about? Effects of Gorum's death, other dieties who died?Anyone? I saw someone replied to my comment about orc gods, but from another source. I also heard rumours elsewhere of Osirian and hag gods dying. What is in this specific book? I want to know which gods die besides Gorum.Okaay…but how?? What happened?!?? All I heard is
** spoiler omitted **That’s some major kitchen sink right there!! There’s nothing even remotely connecting the Osirion Pantheon to the Hag pantheon. TBH it seems mostly informed byreal life wishes of the company than something organic to the setting— which is okay —just needs greater explanation and massaging of the differences in trope.
Bigger confusion for me is if it really is entire pantheon or just the small group of big name egyptian gods who tried to stop the hags.
I just read that section in the PDF. The phrase "another world both like and unlike our own where the gods came to rest" is certainly interesting because I initially was thinking about Earth (even if it didn't make total sense), though the fact that these deities don't give powers anymore wouldn't make sense for Earth. The only other place that "both like and unlike our own" would be Androffa, and since we know next to nothing about it as far as we know it could be trapped like Golarion is implied to be trapped in Starfinder lore. I'm curious though in what impact this has on Earth, since it can be assumed there has to be some small sect or cult that worships the Osirian (or well, Egyptian) gods there.
Any possibility you can share what was said word for word on here regarding the whole affair? I and some others are still confused as to which gods are involved. Is there some cool artwork?
My fear is that this lil blurb will be all we get, but the Inner Sea is relatively small, so a divine battle (+ magical whirlpool) in the waters across Osirion and foreign lands would def have some geopolitical significance.
I also imagine that the number of witches with hag goddess patrons is probably larger than the number of ancient Osirion. Religious practitioners. Lots of evil witch covens lost and what happens to their respective demiplanes??
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I just read that section in the PDF. The phrase "another world both like and unlike our own where the gods came to rest" is certainly interesting because I initially was thinking about Earth (even if it didn't make total sense), though the fact that these deities don't give powers anymore wouldn't make sense for Earth. The only other place that "both like and unlike our own" would be Androffa, and since we know next to nothing about it as far as we know it could be trapped like Golarion is implied to be trapped in Starfinder lore. I'm curious though in what impact this has on Earth, since it can be assumed there has to be some small sect or cult that worships the Osirian (or well, Egyptian) gods there.
Any possibility you can share what was said word for word on here regarding the whole affair? I and some others are still confused as to which gods are involved. Is there some cool artwork?
My fear is that this lil blurb will be all we get, but the Inner Sea is relatively small, so a divine battle (+ magical whirlpool) in the waters across Osirion and foreign lands would def have some geopolitical significance.
I also imagine that the number of witches with hag goddess patrons is probably larger than the number of ancient Osirion. Religious practitioners. Lots of evil witch covens lost and what happens to their respective demiplanes??
I'd assume, personally, that Divine Mysteries would have more information on something like this.
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I just read that section in the PDF. The phrase "another world both like and unlike our own where the gods came to rest" is certainly interesting because I initially was thinking about Earth (even if it didn't make total sense), though the fact that these deities don't give powers anymore wouldn't make sense for Earth. The only other place that "both like and unlike our own" would be Androffa, and since we know next to nothing about it as far as we know it could be trapped like Golarion is implied to be trapped in Starfinder lore. I'm curious though in what impact this has on Earth, since it can be assumed there has to be some small sect or cult that worships the Osirian (or well, Egyptian) gods there.
Any possibility you can share what was said word for word on here regarding the whole affair? I and some others are still confused as to which gods are involved. Is there some cool artwork?
My fear is that this lil blurb will be all we get, but the Inner Sea is relatively small, so a divine battle (+ magical whirlpool) in the waters across Osirion and foreign lands would def have some geopolitical significance.
I also imagine that the number of witches with hag goddess patrons is probably larger than the number of ancient Osirion. Religious practitioners. Lots of evil witch covens lost and what happens to their respective demiplanes??
There is no art, it's presented as the chapter opening for the Mythic Vault part of the book.
As Nethys returned to his divine realm, a great whirlpool appeared in the place where he had battled, and the hag goddesses Gyronna, Mestama, and Alazhra formed a coven there and performed some great working. Then did the old gods of Osirion rise to end the hags’ threat, but even the combined power of Ra, Horus, Anubis, Osiris, Ma’at, and Isis seemed unable to penetrate the barrier of magic surrounding the coven. As the ritual reached its zenith, it seemed certain that whatever the dark goddesses sought should surely come to be, but Gyronna blinked and stuttered, her words that echoed across the region in an unknown tongue stumbling for but a moment. In that instant, the combined gods of Osirion shattered the barrier and both they and the hags were pulled into a great nothingness. Many sages, as well as priests of the lost deities, claim to have seen visions of another world both like and unlike our own where the gods came to rest, but whatever and wherever that place might be, none may say. All we know for certain is that prayers to the old gods of Osirion now go unanswered.
All of the chapters have lore writeups like this and then a chapter following Nahoa and Samo as they adventure throughout Golarion. It's really nice fiction.
There is no art, it's presented as the chapter opening for the Mythic Vault part of the book.
** spoiler omitted **...
You’re a gem! Thx!! And RIP
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You’re a gem! Thx!! And RIP ** spoiler omitted **There is no art, it's presented as the chapter opening for the Mythic Vault part of the book.
** spoiler omitted **...
You can also press F to pay respects for:
- Smiad (Empyreal Lord) and Saint Fang (Dragon), both killed by Dahak after they went on an evil dragon hunting spree.
- Sturovenen, the Dragoneagle, who exploded into rainbows to prevent demons from using a warshard to reopen the Worldwound.
- Gundrinnar, son of Torag who disappeared defending the city of Larrad from Otolmens, the Universal, also MIA.
- Cernunnos, the Stag Lord, who got "cast beyond the boundaries of the Dark Tapestry" by Garhaazh, Primal King, Brother of Dahaak.
I'll say one final thing I found funny, leave the rest for when the book comes out: several people in Razmiran have been empowered by the Godsrain and are challenging good ol' Razmir, but the man has not stepped out to fight (yet).
So I guess the Osiriani people now have to pick up regular inner sea faith
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You’re a gem! Thx!! And RIP ** spoiler omitted **There is no art, it's presented as the chapter opening for the Mythic Vault part of the book.
** spoiler omitted **...
You can also press F to pay respects for:
** spoiler omitted **
I'll say one final thing I found funny, leave the rest for when the book comes out: several people in Razmiran have been empowered by the Godsrain and are challenging good ol' Razmir, but the man has not stepped out to fight (yet).
Good. About time that faker finally got some come-upits for his scamming.
So I guess the Osiriani people now have to pick up regular inner sea faith
Eh, wouldn't be surprised if some of those faiths already had a presence there. Sarenrae through contact with the Keleshites; Anubis is mentioned to have a connection with Pharasma, so I could see his priests switching over to her or one of her Ushers.
And I'm sure Rahadoum is sending people to offer aid to a nation 'abandoned by their gods' while distributing literature about the Laws of Mortality.
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So I guess the Osiriani people now have to pick up regular inner sea faith
Thankfully they at least have Nethys and (according to Mummy’s Mask) Pharasma to fall back on!
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So I guess the Osiriani people now have to pick up regular inner sea faith
They have been following Nethys and Pharasma for thousands of years; the Ancient Osirian gods were pretty niche in modern times.
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While earth definitely exists in the same universe as Golarion (it's where Baba Yaga's from and Cthulhu lives), it's genuinely weird when you get specific figures from Earth mythology just running around, and it's kind of weird when it's like Anubis and Horus instead of like Ares and Loki.
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Am I the only one that thinks a lot of these God V God fights indicated seem very ... random? I can't see what a lot of them would be fighting over in the first place.
A question for Divine Mysteries, perhaps.
From what I have read from the book, 3 major things are happening.
1) Gorums death has caused three potential resources to fall across the Universe. This mainly is what mortals are dealing with but I imagine a lot of the deities themselves are either doing it gain power or prevent others more dangerous foes from gaining power.
2) Gorums death is causing a bunch of supernatural things to occur, mixing with or activating ancient relics. pre-existing phenomenon etc. Gods go to investigate these things, discover something or try to take advantage of said thing and others come to fight them. Sometimes while they are not directly opposed to each other, the nature of their solutions leads to them disagreeing and unable to settle things they fight for what they believe to be right.
3) From my understanding there appears to be both the natural reaction to stress causing people to behave more aggressive or irrationally, but there may also be a supernatural element to it. An enhanced desire or willingness to fight/battle. Cooler heads are not prevailing in these times as one might say.
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Am I the only one that thinks a lot of these God V God fights indicated seem very ... random? I can't see what a lot of them would be fighting over in the first place.
A question for Divine Mysteries, perhaps.
From what I have read from the book, 3 major things are happening.
1) Gorums death has caused three potential resources to fall across the Universe. This mainly is what mortals are dealing with but I imagine a lot of the deities themselves are either doing it gain power or prevent others more dangerous foes from gaining power.
2) Gorums death is causing a bunch of supernatural things to occur, mixing with or activating ancient relics. pre-existing phenomenon etc. Gods go to investigate these things, discover something or try to take advantage of said thing and others come to fight them. Sometimes while they are not directly opposed to each other, the nature of their solutions leads to them disagreeing and unable to settle things they fight for what they believe to be right.
3) From my understanding there appears to be both the natural reaction to stress causing people to behave more aggressive or irrationally, but there may also be a supernatural element to it. An enhanced desire or willingness to fight/battle. Cooler heads are not prevailing in these times as one might say.
That makes a lot more sense. Thanks!
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Barrow's Edge - Immanence now grants 1 spirit damage per die normally, but it increases to 3 spirit damage per die if the enemy is below 50% HP. You know if an enemy is below 50% HP if they're within your Barrow's Edge Reach. All else unchanged.
Are all ikons inclusive of unarmed strikes?
Or just a couple?
=)
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You’re a gem! Thx!! And RIP ** spoiler omitted **There is no art, it's presented as the chapter opening for the Mythic Vault part of the book.
** spoiler omitted **...
You can also press F to pay respects for:
** spoiler omitted **
I'll say one final thing I found funny, leave the rest for when the book comes out: several people in Razmiran have been empowered by the Godsrain and are challenging good ol' Razmir, but the man has not stepped out to fight (yet).
Good. About time that faker finally got some come-upits for his scamming.
So I guess the Osiriani people now have to pick up regular inner sea faithEh, wouldn't be surprised if some of those faiths already had a presence there. Sarenrae through contact with the Keleshites; Anubis is mentioned to have a connection with Pharasma, so I could see his priests switching over to her or one of her Ushers.
And I'm sure Rahadoum is sending people to offer aid to a nation 'abandoned by their gods' while distributing literature about the Laws of Mortality.
Rahadoum is busy having an existential crisis. People randomly getting divine power from rain has caused a lot of controversy.
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Rahadoum is busy having an existential crisis. People randomly getting divine power from rain has caused a lot of controversy.You’re a gem! Thx!! And RIP ** spoiler omitted **There is no art, it's presented as the chapter opening for the Mythic Vault part of the book.
** spoiler omitted **...
You can also press F to pay respects for:
** spoiler omitted **
I'll say one final thing I found funny, leave the rest for when the book comes out: several people in Razmiran have been empowered by the Godsrain and are challenging good ol' Razmir, but the man has not stepped out to fight (yet).
Good. About time that faker finally got some come-upits for his scamming.
So I guess the Osiriani people now have to pick up regular inner sea faithEh, wouldn't be surprised if some of those faiths already had a presence there. Sarenrae through contact with the Keleshites; Anubis is mentioned to have a connection with Pharasma, so I could see his priests switching over to her or one of her Ushers.
And I'm sure Rahadoum is sending people to offer aid to a nation 'abandoned by their gods' while distributing literature about the Laws of Mortality.
I'm not so sure it'd be that big a deal, at least, no more so than elsewhere. The position of the laws of mortality isn't that "Gods don't exist" it's that "Gods aren't worthy of worship".
If anything, the heavily armoured god of war being shown to be as vulnerable to death as any mortal is a good advert for the laws.
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Rahadoum is busy having an existential crisis. People randomly getting divine power from rain has caused a lot of controversy.You’re a gem! Thx!! And RIP ** spoiler omitted **There is no art, it's presented as the chapter opening for the Mythic Vault part of the book.
** spoiler omitted **...
You can also press F to pay respects for:
** spoiler omitted **
I'll say one final thing I found funny, leave the rest for when the book comes out: several people in Razmiran have been empowered by the Godsrain and are challenging good ol' Razmir, but the man has not stepped out to fight (yet).
Good. About time that faker finally got some come-upits for his scamming.
So I guess the Osiriani people now have to pick up regular inner sea faithEh, wouldn't be surprised if some of those faiths already had a presence there. Sarenrae through contact with the Keleshites; Anubis is mentioned to have a connection with Pharasma, so I could see his priests switching over to her or one of her Ushers.
And I'm sure Rahadoum is sending people to offer aid to a nation 'abandoned by their gods' while distributing literature about the Laws of Mortality.
I'm not so sure it'd be that big a deal, at least, no more so than elsewhere. The position of the laws of mortality isn't that "Gods don't exist" it's that "Gods aren't worthy of worship".
If anything, the heavily armoured god of war being shown to be as vulnerable to death as any mortal is a good advert for the laws.
According to a PFS scenario, the Godsrain was in fact a good advert for the laws of humanity! Until people started displaying divine power. I haven’t got the scenario, but a friend who does said that you’re smuggling children gifted with divinity out of Rahadoum because they are rounding the people with divine powers from the godsrain up to punish them.
Again, second hand information but it matches roughly with the scenario description so I guess it’s a fair summary.
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Rahadoum is busy having an existential crisis. People randomly getting divine power from rain has caused a lot of controversy.You’re a gem! Thx!! And RIP ** spoiler omitted **There is no art, it's presented as the chapter opening for the Mythic Vault part of the book.
** spoiler omitted **...
You can also press F to pay respects for:
** spoiler omitted **
I'll say one final thing I found funny, leave the rest for when the book comes out: several people in Razmiran have been empowered by the Godsrain and are challenging good ol' Razmir, but the man has not stepped out to fight (yet).
Good. About time that faker finally got some come-upits for his scamming.
So I guess the Osiriani people now have to pick up regular inner sea faithEh, wouldn't be surprised if some of those faiths already had a presence there. Sarenrae through contact with the Keleshites; Anubis is mentioned to have a connection with Pharasma, so I could see his priests switching over to her or one of her Ushers.
And I'm sure Rahadoum is sending people to offer aid to a nation 'abandoned by their gods' while distributing literature about the Laws of Mortality.
I'm not so sure it'd be that big a deal, at least, no more so than elsewhere. The position of the laws of mortality isn't that "Gods don't exist" it's that "Gods aren't worthy of worship".
If anything, the heavily armoured god of war being shown to be as vulnerable to death as any mortal is a good advert for the laws.
Oh, Gorum's death is cause for much rejoicing. But now what happened to Alhazra in 1e is happening to hundreds if not thousands of people. The fallout is dealt with in PFS scenario 6-03, but I believe it's akso touched on in War of the Immortals.
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I'm not so sure it'd be that big a deal, at least, no more so than elsewhere. The position of the laws of mortality isn't that "Gods don't exist" it's that "Gods aren't worthy of worship".If anything, the heavily armoured god of war being shown to be as vulnerable to death as any mortal is a good advert for the laws.
It's more that potential for people to spontaneously become divinely touched is somewhat troublesome in a country that actively opposes and discriminates against divine power. They're trying to manage rampant vigilante justice while considering how to rewriting their founding documents, not really in a position to do much outreach or take advantage of things.
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Barrow's Edge - Immanence now grants 1 spirit damage per die normally, but it increases to 3 spirit damage per die if the enemy is below 50% HP. You know if an enemy is below 50% HP if they're within your Barrow's Edge Reach. All else unchanged.Are all ikons inclusive of unarmed strikes?
Or just a couple?
=)
Of the Weapon Ikons, Gleaming Blade, Hands of the Wildling and Titan's Breaker can be unarmed attacks. Gleaming Blade has to be slashing, Titan's Breaker has to be Bludgeoning and Hands of Wildling can be any type.
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3) From my understanding there appears to be both the natural reaction to stress causing people to behave more aggressive or irrationally, but there may also be a supernatural element to it. An enhanced desire or willingness to fight/battle. Cooler heads are not prevailing in these times as one might say.
That is 100% supported in PFS Scenario 6-02 Rain Falls on the Mountain of Sea and Sky, where the Godsrain increased the agressiveness of all creatures it fell on, in some cases mutating them. Lots of typically passive creatures became hostile.
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The only casualties so far that I don't quite understand how they happened is the fight between
Some interesting implications with that. I hope we can find out more in Divine Mysteries!
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The only casualties so far that I don't quite understand how they happened is the fight between ** spoiler omitted **
Some interesting implications with that. I hope we can find out more in Divine Mysteries!
** spoiler omitted **The only casualties so far that I don't quite understand how they happened is the fight between ** spoiler omitted **
Some interesting implications with that. I hope we can find out more in Divine Mysteries!
Thanks! Yeah, that sounds pretty plausible. And that's another
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The only casualties so far that I don't quite understand how they happened is the fight between ** spoiler omitted **
Some interesting implications with that. I hope we can find out more in Divine Mysteries!
We probably will.
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What's the word on Mythic Monster templates? How much stronger are they than un-templated versions of the same monsters?
Do the made originally as mythic monster give any indication of how mythic one must be to fight them? Or is it feasible for non- mythic heroes to best them?
So, in order:
- Mythic Templates always give the monster Extreme in a Skill modifier (Stealth for the Ambusher, Athletics for the Brute, One of the 4 Tradition skills the Caster, Acrobatics for the Striker).
- They all have a weakness of some sort that prevents them from gaining a type of Mythic Resistance or Resilience (more on those later).
- They all gain one or two more specific buffs or abilities that require Mythic Points.
As for your second question: Up to Creature level 23, a party of non-mythics can take on a mythic creature, but it'll be way tougher.
The main way the Mythic Rules make monsters harder isn't by upping the numbers (aside from the skills mentioned) is through Mythic Resistance and/or Resilience. At 1st, 7th and 13th level a Creature chooses between one or the other.
Mythic Resistance is damage resistance against all Strikes made by non-mythic creatures. It can be either half the creature's level, or the full level (if it gets picked twice). It can be bypassed by Mythic Weapons, but nothing else.
Mythic Resilience is applied to 1 of the three saves each time it's picked, and it means the creature treats all saving throws of that type as 1 step better, all the time. This doesn't stack with things like Incapacitation.
As I mentioned though, some Templates can't take one of these options, or they're limited. Brutes can't take Resilience for Will, Ambushers can't take Resistance at all, Casters can't take Resilience in Fortitude and can't take any Resistance, and Strikers can't take Resilience in Fortitude and Can't gain Remove a Condition (more on this later).
At levels 4, 10, 17 and 20 the creature gains powers that require Mythic Points to use. They range from getting +4 to a skill, to removing any 1 condition, to rerolling checks, to not dying and coming back with 50% hp, and finally regaining use of a spell.
As you can see so far none of this really puts them beyond the capabilities of a non-mythic party. Yes, it's going to suck (particularly for Spellcasters and Kineticists, but that's been discussed in a different topic in the Rules Subforum), but it's not insurmountable.
At level 23 however, a Mythic Creature can become completely immune to the effect of either all harmful spells cast by non-mythic creatures or to all Strikes made by non-mythic creatures and weapons (still bypassed by Mythic Weapons).
And the biggest threats presented in the book are all immune to both, though by that level if your characters don't have access to Mythic weapons why are you making them fight mythic monsters... (spellcasters are still hosed though)
The only other guidelines the rules presents are: Don't use Mythic Ambushers or Brutes as Level +3 or +4 encounters (+2 is fine); Don't use Casters alone. And that's about it.
Unfortunately, I think people are forgetting/not accounting for the normal problems with some monsters and the level gap.
I just had a L12 fight in an AP vs a foe that was resistant 20 to all phys, and resistant 10 to all other damage types, even positive and force (as an undead). While getting ambushed by a super ghost who almost ended PCs twice with a single spell in Abomination Vaults was certainly more "this is just outright b***@#&%", this AP's fight VS a super resistant foe was much more "unfun hell" to fight.
If that AP encounter was at L13, and the narrative weight had earned them a mythic status w/ 3 mythic defense choices, that fight may have been outright unwinnable.
These mythic defenses are being added on top of existing creatures. When you do that, this means their existing strengths will be unchanged while their few weaknesses will be made into mythically potent defenses. That phys-resistant tank of a foe with an achillies heel of a bad Reflex save? Nope, with a single mythic defense, that's now effectively a +10 and their best save.
Imagine the slime/ooze category with all their normal immunities, their high HP, low AC, low Reflex being fought at L13. With 3 mythic defenses of phys resist 13 and mythic Reflex. Yeah, good luck with that encounter.
I honestly think these foe-side rules are a nearly a disaster. "Boss" encounters so often being [Party] VS [single +Lvl] foe is already an existing pain point of the system's design.
How often do you expect a fight vs 4 even level foes to have 1 among them be a surprise mythic? It's easy to say that most of the time the PCs face a mythic foe, they will already be at a level disadvantage. Even the book advice of limiting the gap to +2 does nothing to actually address this numbers problem and fix that bad math, such book guidance only throws a tiny lampshade to ask people to not look at it.
Allowing every oddball "designed single" foe to get such permanent passive defenses is a huge risk / problem when the PCs only recourse is to spend a super-hero-point to ignore this arbitrary defense for a single act. Any more spend will be net-negative on their mythic points.
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When you do that, this means their existing strengths will be unchanged while their few weaknesses will be made into mythically potent defenses.
You'll just learn to use Will save spells on Brutes and Fortitude based ones on nearly everything else.
Only Ambushers can have Mythic Resilience 3 times (and they will get it) but all the other ones just can't. So you should target the weakest save.I find the Resistance much more problematic as it basically shuts down some characters with no way to get through it while others will just ignore it...
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I cannot imagine that the bestiaries are going to get a pass to label them with specific categorizations like Brute or Ambusher.
Where would you put Oozes? Brute due to their bulk? Most are ambush predators, and this is already the first type of foe I see as a nightmare in the mythic system.
IMO, this post-hoc arbitrary "no, don't do it like that or else it'll be too hard/game-breaking" rule is exactly the kind of "general-case fixer" that causes huge problems. This type of wishy-washy safeguard is supposed to trigger a designer to reflect upon and think: "Hey, maybe this is a bad idea, let's think of solutions and compare them against this."
The notion of "Brute vs Ambusher vs etc" is a flimsy and hole-filled guard rail that depends upon general trends being true all of the time to function.
Any amount of diversity in the reality of the system's play (/the bestiary) snaps it in half. As soon as there's an "agile brute" that becomes mythic, whoops, that one banned mythic save is already their best, and now this rule to ban that save makes the foe much worse as their (originally) intended weaknesses are the only options to make mythic.
Using arbitrary descriptors like "Brute" to determine such things is an obviously bad idea.
It's really, really concerning that we can already say that a rule to the effect of "you cannot select a creatures weakest save to make mythic" would be already better for the system integrity than what we got with this wishy-washy, half "Brute" rules mixing (clashing) with the half "highest save first" rules.
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When you do that, this means their existing strengths will be unchanged while their few weaknesses will be made into mythically potent defenses.You'll just learn to use Will save spells on Brutes and Fortitude based ones on nearly everything else.
Only Ambushers can have Mythic Resilience 3 times (and they will get it) but all the other ones just can't. So you should target the weakest save.I find the Resistance much more problematic as it basically shuts down some characters with no way to get through it while others will just ignore it...
Mythic Resistance and Strike Immunity much less of a problem because at least they can be bypassed in several ways.
For one thing, if your characters are Mythic, that's it. Resistance and Immunity need not apply, they might as well not exist.
If your characters are not Mythic, keep in mind both of them are specifically against Strikes, with a capital S. Which means stuff like kineticisit blasts works fine, at least.
If your characters are not Mythic and they rely on Strikes, they can get Mythic Weapons. And I know this sounds super hard, but the book literally has a Level 7 Mythic Weapon statted, so it's not like they all need to be Level 20+ like the Runes would suggest.
Mythic Resilience meanwhile has 0 counterplay beyond "target a different save" and that might or might not be possible (hello Kineticists!). It really does punish everyone using saves a lot more than Resistance does for Strike users, particularly if we're talking Mythic Characters who just ignore resistance.
It honestly seems like Resilience should be vs non-mythic stuff only to put it in line with the other defensive abilities, but it is what it is.
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I'm sad about what Paizo did with the Mythic template, it's bland and uninspiring.
While there's already a template to increase numbers (Elite) I was expecting the Mythic template to give the equivalent of a level of super powerful abilities but no number increase. So you would be able to create monsters with extreme (and definitely overpowered) abilities for their level but low numbers to compensate. Something that really gives a Mythic feeling to the fight and would play well in both Mythic and non-Mythic games.
Anyway, I'm not sure I'll play much mythic adventures nor face much mythic monsters.
IMO "Strike" resistance is much, much worse than physical resistance. It's not just about "player power/ability" it's about design integrity and play consistency.
Bypassing that mythic Strike resistance is just a binary have/have not. Which defeats the whole point of it being something to consider and work around. Your party either has the tool and uses it, or they do not. There is 0 other in the moment depth to this mechanic other than "use the specific tool or suffer the consequence of not doing so."
This mechanic outright flattens the dynamic decision-making of normal gameplay by so strongly penalizing anything that does not used the prescribed solution.
And guess what, some classes like Alchemist are just s&!! outta luck. Good luck giving the Alchemist a "mythic bomb," lol.
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It's all so insanely arbitrary to have a "mythic bow" be able to shoot a creature fine (with mundane arrows!) yet another creature making strike w/ a magic sword or big bomb just cannot be effective.
That type of arbitrary "It's a Strike, therefore..." instead of it being an actual characteristic of the creature to have resistance to physical damage is just so, so immersion-breaking. That Crushing Grab will do it's damage totally normally, but you had better not swing to punch at them!
Like, the design of this rule is *so* stupid,
an Alchemist can throw something like a Silver Orb bomb that creates a cloud of silver shards that deals dmg each time(turn) a foes breathes inside the cloud of razors.
It's not a Strike, and there's 0 way a GM could finesse the mythic rules to trigger that Strike resistance. Meanwhile, the frag bomb loaded with razors will have an average of half or all of it's damage outright ignored.
Another example:
Kineticist's Jagged Berms is non-Strike Piercing damage that *also has no save!* This ability outright is able to be completely 100% unaffected by the mythic defenses of foes. It's absurd that this existing thing already breaks the mechanic in half.
It's just... so disappointing to see that this is the best Paizo could do when there's dozens of amateur homebrewers who could have taken those existing rules and done an emergency pass within a week to make them far, far more playable.
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Ugh, I swear I don't try to stir up arguments on the forums. Most of the time.
Can you speak more to Mythic Weapons?
That sounds like a potentiality cool story telling tool to defeat the one and only Mythic big bad, who already kicked the party's butts once.
Do Mythic Weapons do anything behind defeating mythic resistance?
Ugh, I swear I don't try to stir up arguments on the forums. Most of the time.
Can you speak more to Mythic Weapons?
That sounds like a potentiality cool story telling tool to defeat the one and only Mythic big bad, who already kicked the party's butts once.
Do Mythic Weapons do anything behind defeating mythic resistance?
Hey don't feel down, you didn't write the rules.
As for Mythic Weapons, first of all we have Mythic Fundamental Runes. They basically just add 1 over existing runes (so +4 to AC, +4 to saves, +5 to attacks, weapons deal 5 dice of damage). All of them also have a special reaction that costs a Mythic point to activate:
- Mythic Armor Potency turns a Critical Success on a Strike against you into a Success (if the source was Mythic) or a Failure (if the source was not).
- Mythic Armor Resiliency turns Critical Failure on a save you roll into a Failure (if the source was mythic) or a Success (if the source was not).
- Mythic Striking lets you reroll your weapon damage dice and keep the highest result.
- Mythic Weapon Potency lets you reroll a Strike at Mythic Proficiency and keep the best of two results.
All of these can only be crafted by someone who can make Crafting checks at Mythic Proficiency.
We also get three specific magic weapons: Freedom's Flame (Level 21), a morningstar used by Courage Heart; Shadowpiercer (Level 23), a spear used by Horse Lord Iriatykis in her fight against the Shadow Court of Nidal; and finally Gut-Ripper (Level 7), an ogre hook used by the example Mythic Brute, which is a level 7 ogre boss. All of them have special abilities, though interestingly Freedom's Flame and Shadowpiercer are both +4 major striking, not mythic striking, which I thought was kind of weird.
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Realy hope they just forgot the "made by non-mythic creatures" on Resilience, and they add it with a errata.
Realy hope they just forgot the "made by non-mythic creatures" on Resilience, and they add it with a errata.
Benefit of the doubt it's just that. Paizo has done (mostly) good by the game, so they probably wouldn't mess up that bad here. Though they've also made some questionable decisions for casters, whether actually problematic or just perceived as such. And yeah... Kineticists shafted at each angle. Hopefully my GM doesn't decide to use mythic in our game.