ornathopter's page

Soralyon's edicts include

craft golems and artwork from stone

Even though 'golem' is no longer used for constructs in Paizo content.

No worries! I have the PDF, and waiting a few days for stuff like this never killed anyone. Wishing you a speedy recovery!

I'm disappointed Vavaalrav's symbol is still a Celtic cross, I was hoping it'd be updated to something not associated with an IRL religion. But the cheat sheet is really handy!

With Divine Mysteries out, I'd also like gargoyle lore because I think you could write some interesting culture from Vavaalrav and Xoveron both having gargoyles as an area of interest, with opposing edicts (creating ruins and preventing maintenance or rebuilding vs protecting and preserving holy ground and creating memorials.) And neither of them are true gods, they're a demon lord and psychopomp usher, and neither (as far as we know) were ever gargoyles or had anything to do with them being created. That all seems like it'd be fun to build off of, in a similar vein as the kholo's complicated relationship with Lamashtu.

Do SPaG errors get reported here too? In the introduction on page 6, it says

"Why is that some mortals worship other gods when the faiths of this “core” selection is so prominent?"

"Why is it that some mortals worship other gods when the faiths of this "core" selection are so prominent?"

I'd love to see an AP follow up on the original Iron Gods, that sounds really fun.

Are there any new summoner eidolons?

Thanks! I've been trying to think of a FoRP character, and setting up a mortal herald seemed like a good way to make the most of the higher starting level. Thanks for taking the time to read it, and the character concept in your post sounds pretty cool!

ornathopter wrote:

Is it the same pool of feats for both?

It all derives from the same dedication feat and there are 29 feats total (including the dedication), but 4 of those are mythic feats (one each at levels 14, 16, 18, and 20) and one of the 16th level archetype feats has the 14th level mythic feat as a prerequisite. The mythic feats have both the archetype tag and the mythic tag.

Wow, that is a ridiculous number for something you only get access to at level 10. I assume that it's so you have a few different branches for being a herald - like, some for being a spellcasty herald, some for being a tank or a stealthy type? Are there any that mesh well with being a kinetecist?

Is it the same pool of feats for both?

ornathopter wrote:

Is it possible to be a mortal herald of a covenant? It could be fun to play that, maybe combined with the godling mythic destiny...

Nope, I’m afraid not. The Prerequisite states, “worshipper of a specific deity, master in Religion or your deity’s divine skill”.

Well, that's disappointing. Being the mortal agent of the concept of alchemy, or community solidarity, or sneaky manipulation, unconcerned with any one god but the idea as a whole, seems like a really fun concept. But it doesn't look like there anything that breaks if you ask your GM to make an exception, so maybe it'll work for home games.

Yeah, that could be fun! The craft sequence gargoyles can also shift from a gargoyle mode to a human passing one, so a yaoguai-type shape changing power like that could be fun, or just giving them an innate spell for an ancestry feat. And I'd love it if they got some sort of ability to ward off spirits or curses or so on.

Also, to be clear, the 'pretending to be a stone statue' thing is from the Battlezoo gargoyles, so I've been bringing it up as a reason why I'd like to see Paizo's version; because the one that exists has mechanics that don't fit the vibe I was hoping for for PCs.

Giving them some sort of ability to attune to a place could be really fun - going 'this is MY turf now' can be fun mechanically and as a character beat, and the Paizo gargoyles do slowly change to match surroundings; that could be a way to mechanically reflect that for PCs.

ornathopter wrote:

....anyways, it works well enough, but I'd still love an official Paizo version of gargoyles. Although probably not with a 'can't stop protecting the castle' requirement - PCs are adventurers after all, and I'd like to be able to play a gargoyle that can go on globe-trotting adventures like every other kind of PC.

Their protective nature could be reflected by their habits though, such as setting an alarm around a camping site.

Their shapeshifting nature could work too, with an ability to diminish their monstruous nature to avoid suspicion.

Oh sure - an optional ability like that, or possibly just a base ability of the ancestry, would be fine. I just don't want "they can no more not protect the castle than not breathe", as in, protecting a location is a mandatory thing they all MUST do and don't get a choice in. I want to be able to play one in Fist of the Ruby Phoenix or Gatewalkers, or any other adventure where there's not one core location to protect and return to.

Being able to shape-shift can also be interesting (although I don't think it's part of Paizo's gargoyle abilities? I've seen it in books like the Craft Sequence, but it's not part of their usual ability set) but I'd rather see it as something like the other shapeshifting ancestries, not "yes, this evil wizard you're fighting just completely forgot he didn't have a statue of a gargoyle decked out in full adventurer gear in his foyer."

Is it possible to be a mortal herald of a covenant? It could be fun to play that, maybe combined with the godling mythic destiny...

JiCi wrote:

Here's an ancestry that is missing and would be wlecomed: Gargoyles

Here's something they should emphasize on: gargoyles were designed to "frighten away evil spirits", but the catch is how "monstruous" gargoyles can be. Logically speaking, an evil spirit wouldn't be easily scared by an equally scary-looking monster, but gargoyles can do so.

Zoken44 wrote:

Defenders of the night? No more able to stop protecting the castle than breathing the air?

I still want to repeat "Figments"
Creatures from the very borders of the Astral Plane who are sometimes perceived and interacted with by young mortals. They come from an ephemeral world but because of the Universe's rigidity are force into solid form, and must relearn to change themselves and exercise their dream logic.

Good news to the both of you. Roll for Combat released a Gargoyle ancestry already, and will be releasing a Figment ancestry next year in their Year of Titans series.

Honestly, the gargoyle ancestry from RFC is find and all, but I'd still really love an official Paizo one, especially with culture lore (Battlezoo's lore was... pretty disappointing to me.) I still don't get why 'clutchswapped' takes up a whole heritage slot, for one thing, and the emphasis on pretending to be a statue makes far less sense for PCs than enemy monsters (a PC might wander into an enemy base and be surprised, but what enemy isn't going to realize that they didn't have a statue of a monster person in full gear in their lair?)

....anyways, it works well enough, but I'd still love an official Paizo version of gargoyles. Although probably not with a 'can't stop protecting the castle' requirement - PCs are adventurers after all, and I'd like to be able to play a gargoyle that can go on globe-trotting adventures like every other kind of PC.

Are there elemental covenants besides the air ones? Also, this is extremely niche, but does the psychopomp usher Vavaalrav have a new symbol (as in, not a cross), or any changed or new information from what's on AON or the wiki?

Elric200 wrote:

Can anyone post some info on the Avenger Archetype?

Avenger

- Rogue Class Archetype
- Choose a god to follow
- It is referred to as the Avenger Racket
- You are trained in your deity's favored weapon and that scales with your other weapon proficiency
- You can do sneak attack with your gods favored weapon (using this weapon is highly encouraged by the feat choice as well). So worshipers of Ashukharma and Szuriel can, for example, sneak attack with a Greatsword
- Dedication gives +1 to saves vs. divine spells and effects that do spirit damage as well as the ability to use Religion to Coerce, Gather Info, or Track as long as the city has a church dedicated to your god in it.
- My favorite feat is lvl 8 that lets you make an attach as a reaction to anybody casting a spell and if that attach hits, it disrupts the spell. The only requirement is it is your deity's favored weapon, so if it can be thrown or is ranged, it works too (as long as it is within your range increment).

Does the Avenger rogue have a way to make opponents off-guard, the way the other rackets do?

The-Magic-Sword wrote:

Old_Man_Robot wrote:

I saw some people talking about new Fighter feats. Did any other classes get additional feats, outside of class archetypes?

Yes, the Avenger Class Archetype section has a little section stapled onto the end that provides two spear feats for the Rogue Ranger AND Fighter.

Spear Rogue you say, now that could be interesting.

To be clear, that's a new feat that can be taken by any rogues/rangers/fighters, not just ones that take the new archetypes?

What's the deal with the Broken Chain? Some sort of mythic escape artist or freedom fighter? Also, did you notice anything interesting with the Vindicator?

I want to see more champion causes, especially some sort of Green Knight defender of the wild cause.

Thanks! Since the header on the wiki's table of contents was Gifts plural, I thought there might be more than one. Anyways thanks for the info!

Could someone please share

I hope we get a few more Champion causes in this one - I'd really like to see a nature-focused champion (if Vindicator is a ranger but religion, why not a champion but nature?) Something about protecting the wilds, or guarding growth. Or maybe an archival Champion or one focused on banishing the undead - this seems like a great book to just put a few more in.

Operatic, I think?

Wow, I'm excited! And as a Jewish fan I'm glad the inquisitor's name was changed. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on this!

So, would you be able to use a claw or jaw or tail attack instead of a fist with Spirit Warrior?

I've been a bit confused about the Spirit Warrior and Cultivator archetypes - it seems like they have two mutually exclusive specialties, but within the same archetype (kaiju defense vs trickster bane, good cultivator vs death cultivator). How does that work? (Also, do the Kaiju Defenders get any particularly fun, kaiju-themed abilities, like atomic breath?)

Technomancer and Mechanist will be playtested early in 2025.

Personally I'm hoping for a monster ancestry book, or something like a more Halloweeny howl of the wild - all the spooky, semi-villainous or misunderstood options. Friendly harpies, benevolent necromancers, guardian gargoyles, whatever. Although that'd be unlikely to be announced anytime soon.

I'm kind of expecting to get those in an Ancestry Core book (well, maybe not under that name, if it's a lot of uncommon and rare options, but you get it.) Some of them could definitely use polishing and integrating errata, and it's not as though Paizo has run out of entirely new options people want to see as full ancestries.

ornathopter wrote:

I also don't get why someone's fan AP, if they're not charging any money, isn't protected as a transformative work even if it does use Golarion proper nouns. What would happen if someone posted their homebrew Numeria content to AO3?

Generally speaking, transformative uses are, to quote the US Copyright Office, "those that add something new, with a further purpose or different character, and do not substitute for the original use of the work." (emphasis mine) Fan APs actually DO "substitute for the original use of the work," which is why you can't use "Golarion proper nouns" without a license to do so. You can make fan APs because the rules qua the rules are not copyrightable - i.e. the common observation that you can't copyright game mechanics, only a particular expression of them.

Copyright law sucks and is a huge headache for everybody.

Do they actually substitute? Someone's novel-length fanfiction about Harriet Potter's adventures at Hogwarts after using magic to transition could be said to be substituting the original books - someone might be reading those instead of reading the original - but they are certainly transformative. If someone wants to make an AP that's Iron Gods 2 "What if here Kul-Inkit has taken the throne and you're her inner circle of warriors who must thwart an invasion by out-of-work crusaders from the Worldwound", then that's using Golarion proper nouns, but it's fairly transformative, and doesn't substitute as an official Paizo AP (because it's based on a worldstate or situation they're probably not going to write).

Though, I'm also not a copyright lawyer of any kind, and my understanding is that even the judges who rule on these sorts of cases tend to use pretty arbitrary definitions of what's transformative enough.

I also don't get why someone's fan AP, if they're not charging any money, isn't protected as a transformative work even if it does use Golarion proper nouns. What would happen if someone posted their homebrew Numeria content to AO3?

How would this affect material distributed through Kickstarter or BackerKit? Crowdfunded projects are pretty big - Battlezoo seems to always be running them. Would people no longer be able to distribute PDFs to backers through BackerKit or DriveThruRPG? Can RollForCombat not sell PF2 rule versions of their content on their site?

What does Live Wire do, and why is everyone so worked up about it?

I think a versatile heritage related to kaiju would be sick—iirc from one of the recent streams kobolds get a heritage for this in Tian Xia Character Guide because of course they do, but I want it for everyone!

I'd love that - I've been pondering a lizardfolk dragonblood to get close enough, but just having one built in and with some more specifically kaiju-y options would be great.

Which NPC or monster has your favorite new art? Also, are there any classes or ancestries which are specifically discouraged?

ornathopter wrote:

It sounds like the Dragonblooded get full flight at Level 9 - faster than any of the other versatile heritages.

Pointing that errata'd Strix and Sprite also gets full flight faster than before (except number of feats)

Sylph might be level 5 or level 13 full flight instead

Yes, but they're full ancestries, not versatile heritages. Back when that errata first came out, speculation was that the new standard would be that flight-capable ancestries would get feats for it at 1/5/9, and versatile heritages would remain at 17 (because the planar scions and nephilim didn't get any errata to get it sooner.) Now we have Dragonblooded, which is on par with the ancestries, so clearly that's not what Paizo is going for. So, with that in mind, I'm hoping that the air planar scions get an errata so that they can also get flight faster, as it's very fitting for them.

It sounds like the Dragonblooded get full flight at Level 9 - faster than any of the other versatile heritages. I hope that the sylph at least will get errata'd to match that pace - as spirits of the air they seem like they have the best justification out of anyone.

Wow, it's pretty awful for the people running a rehab service insist that their disabled clients do things in a worse, more tiring way for the convenience of the abled people getting paid to help them. "You have to practice not being disabled anymore before we deign to do our jobs of helping you manage your disability"?

ornathopter wrote:

There are groups like ASAN (the autistic self advocacy network) who consult on representing autistic characters in the media, in addition to their other activism. That's most likely a better place for Paizo to get writers or consultants than any one of us random forumgoers or a social media hashtag.

I looked up and researched ASAN a bit. It looks like it could be a useful organization if you could get their attention. Not sure what their demand and schedule looks like.

The reason being that it is both created by and currently run by Autistic people.

After the train wreck that is Autism Speaks and the blatant ableism I experienced when trying to go to my state's Vocational Rehabilitation center, I don't automatically trust any Autism support or advocacy group - especially ones that are for-hire.

Yes, there are a few self-advocacy groups for autistic people, but ASAN is the most prominent one I know of (it's right in their name!) Getting attention/demand and schedule wouldn't be an issue either - Paizo is a company with procedures for reaching out to and hiring consultants, and ASAN has a history of consulting with media properties, and would almost certainly be happy to work with a prominent TTRPG publisher. That's the sort of thing that you make time for - and of course they have many contacts and employees who do this specific thing.

Anyways, I also don't want to see autism be represented with stat penalties or debuffs, we're agreed on that (although I'd say that gender, sexuality, and physical disabilities are often extremely formative to people and impact every aspect of their life. Personally, my gender and sexuality are just as impactful to my life as my being autistic, and I would say that the way my autism has impacted my life has been heavily influenced by my gender as well. And I know many other autistic people who have had similar experiences - the way an white straight man will go through life is quite different from a black asexual woman, even if they're both autistic and have roughly similar support needs.)

I think a roleplaying game - especially one where everyone is going to be interacting with their own friend groups, who likely don't know more than them about autism - is a poor place to be educational about how to handle a meltdown. That would pretty inherently require a GM - most likely a neurotypical one - acting through what they THINK a meltdown is like. Or even if a GM is autistic, having to play-act a deeply distressing experience for other people. It's simply not a good medium for it. Besides, as another autistic person, I know the messy and unpleasant parts of being autistic - and I'm quite used to most neurotypical people I know thinking about them first and foremost. It's almost impossible to talk to them about autism without them bringing up the most meltdown-prone, least-comprehensible-to-them relative of a friend they know. If Paizo added an autistic character, I'd rather they be just as cool and capable as every other iconic. We should get power fantasies too.

At any rate, I think this'd be much better suited to a comic or prose fiction than handing off a character sheet and diagnosis to people's game groups and hoping for the best. It would be nice to read that story, though.

Also, I'd argue Paizo has already started to add a few player options for those who want to RP an autistic character - there are a few magic spells and items that seem tailor-made for Golarian autistic people, and that I'd personally love to have in real life. Read the Air, for instance. So it'd be cool to see a Paizo character who made use of that kind of thing.

There are groups like ASAN (the autistic self advocacy network) who consult on representing autistic characters in the media, in addition to their other activism. That's most likely a better place for Paizo to get writers or consultants than any one of us random forumgoers or a social media hashtag. It would be nice to have such an iconic, though, or significant NPCs (although hopefully with many notes for the GMs roleplaying as those NPCs to do so without falling into stereotypes.)

Thanks for the information anyways!

Yes, I'm asking because there was a twitch stream and Ashanderai said there was more. I'm asking if there was more in that twitch stream about the bit I'm interested in. I'm very sorry if that was confusingly worded.

Was there anything about the spirit warrior? I've been a bit confused on what exact kind of character option they are - a new specialization for an existing class, an archetype with different branches of further specializing, or what? And I want to know if the Kaiju defense one is both defending FROM defending people from kaiju, defending kaiju from people, or "all of the above, and defending WITH kaiju(-themed abilities)".

Are there any interesting new player options?

I think everyone is on the same page about not wanting to perpetuate stereotypes, but this is the 'what do you want to see in Lost Omens Arcadia' thread, not 'let's talk about all the potential problems in a completely hypothetical book' thread.

A desert is an important kind of ecosystem, but desertification of other ecosystems due to water loss, erosion, etc is still very bad environmentally. I think doing a fantasy version of the environmental restoration efforts underway now could be very fun. And it could be interesting to have a bit of the setting show off the many different kinds of arid ecosystems and drylands that exist, since people tend to assume they're all endless barren sand dunes.

Yes, there are new weapons, armors, and equipment. There's also some new bottled monstrosities, poisons, beast guns, and siege weapons.

Ok, thanks! I guess they'll probably explain more about those closer to the release date.

Seneschal, Vindicator, and Warrior of Legend

I missed these three - what classes are they archetypes for, and where'd you hear about them? I didn't see anything about them in the keynote or godsrain writeups, or the product summaries. And what's their schticks?