ornathopter's page

I'd really like an 'elementals of Golarion' character options book. Class options like more kinetecist feats or archetypes for the Houses of Perfection (or miscellaneous ways for people to tap into the power of different elements), and ancestries/heritages for element-themed sapient creatures like gargoyles, nymphs, and harpies, or expansions to the dragonblood heritage for the elemental dragons. And some gear (especially for kinetecists) and spells, of course. I know this isn't very likely because we have Rage of Elements, but I'd still love some more options for elementally-themed characters.

In general I think it'd be fun to get an 'elementals of Golarion' book or something along those lines. I know it's not very likely, since we just got Rage of Elements, but it could be fun to have an elemental book that focuses on the material world and what's happening on planet instead of the planes. Have gargoyles and harpies and nymphs as ancestry options, maybe add more kinetecist feats or gear and some new archetypes for the Houses of Perfection, that kind of thing.

There will also be a Runelord-related Mythic Destiny. Suitable for characters who want to become Runelords, or who might be reincarnated Runelords or possessed by dead ones.

When will the Player's Guide be dropping?

It's available now.

So... Rival Academies having the Monastery of the Unbreaking Waves get a Magus Hybrid Study has given me some ideas...

Namely, some Non-Monk options associated with each House of Perfection:

All four schools could have options for Kineticists.

Options for Untwisting Iron could include:
Fighter options
Monastic Weaponry options

Options for Unfolding Wind could include:
Unarmed combat options
Throwing weapon options

Options for Unblinking Flame could include:
Psychic stuff
New Qi spells

Heck, it could be interesting if, given Wood and Metal having become their own element with genies and planes, if two new schools based around them tried to establish themselves among the Houses (Unbending Tree and Unrusting Metal, perhaps?)

Maybe that could fit into a Lost Omens: Jalmeray/Impossible Lands? It does sound fun.

ornathopter wrote:

I'd really like a book of or with weirder and more monstery ancestries. Maybe a grab bag of monster-y options in general - like more equipment, an archetype or three, spells and impulses, that kind of thing. But really I'd just like to be able to scratch the itch to have a party of monsters or monster-themed characters. You know, like a heroic gargoyle or medusa, or someone who's got a barghest themed set of abilities, or a character who's entirely kitted out in things made from different gorgons.

Roll for combat has a lot of monster ancestry options covered.

Getting more ancestry based weapons and gear would be great.
Along those lines I would love to see more places where the settlement write ups aren't always majority human. Nearly every settlement has 50% or more humans unless its dedicated to being a "this race lives here" place. Even if humans were 30% of the total population, so long as no other ancestry was over 30% that would still make humans the majority.
Lets have more places that give the feel of when you look down a street you aren't seeing humans with small groups or individuals of other ancestries sprinkled about.

Oh yes, I know! The reason I want this is partly because I find Roll for Combat's options unsatisfying in different ways. So I'd like Paizo to take a swing at them, so I'd have alternatives.

But seconding wanting more ancestry specific gear, and more locations where humans are a minority!

I'd really like a book of or with weirder and more monstery ancestries. Maybe a grab bag of monster-y options in general - like more equipment, an archetype or three, spells and impulses, that kind of thing. But really I'd just like to be able to scratch the itch to have a party of monsters or monster-themed characters. You know, like a heroic gargoyle or medusa, or someone who's got a barghest themed set of abilities, or a character who's entirely kitted out in things made from different gorgons.

I don't think the game with wizards and dragons and a bank-god ensuring that prices for things stay the same everywhere and an immortal ubermensch from Atlantis who became a god was ever trying to be an analogue of the past of the real world. And if you're already homebrewing most of the setting by removing things you don't like, what do you care if Paizo puts out a Lost Omens: Arcadia book? You're already ignoring plenty of other stuff.

PossibleCabbage wrote:

How often does "there's a law against it" stop a PC from doing something though?

Like "characters trying to survive in a hostile place" is a pretty standard story in this sort of thing.

From my point of view, this is a serious enough obstacle, and one created specifically against players from Avistan, that I consider it right to get rid of it.

Players aren't from Avistan, Avistan isn't real. There's nothing stopping anyone from making a new character who's Arcadian, if they want to do Arcadian adventures, or who has any background that isn't 'came from one of the three specific colonies.' You could play a geniekin from an elemental plane on a research trip, or a Garundi sailor who was blown way off course, or a Minkai kitsune who sailed in from the other side entirely, or any number of other options. Heck, even if you wanted to play someone specifically from Avistan, you could still have them end up lost through some bizarre magical happenstance like 'portal spell went terribly wrong' and make their need to avoid causing a diplomatic incident be a source of tension.

I'd like a lost omens book for the Broken Lands, and an AP in Numeria following up Iron Gods in some way.

I'd like to know if there's anything especially cool in the new water monk specialization, and if there's any interesting bits of equipment in there.

Probably 'horn'? The AON people probably just had a typo by accident.

Paizo

Jotunborn hail from an alternate plane of existence, where they tend to giant beetles whose silk is used to create subdermal, ritualistic markings that glow on command.

Well that sounds weird and different! Sounds like there'll be Large and Medium options, as with the minotaur ancestries.

I've said it before, but since there's an ongoing thread about it right now, I'll say it again. I really hope we get a proper gargoyle ancestry someday. I could see that fitting into the Impossible playtest next to the runesmith and necromancer, maybe.

Seconding Oread strix. I really hope someday we can get an official gargoyle ancestry though.

Maybe rather than feats, they could add kintecist gear with that sort of effect? Some kind of equipment that adds another damage type to your impulses, or that outright replaces one of your damage types when you're attuned to it. So you'd lose access to, say, your wood poison damage but you'd get acid damage until you decided to un-attune and change back. That'd give the GM more discretion on when to hand them out, and you still wouldn't be able to switch types mid-combat.

It'd be nice to get more Earth impulses or damage types, but personally I'd like to see sonic damage earth impulses, like chiming crystals or the vibrations of an earthquake or avalanche. It'd also be neat to get an impulse for petrifying enemies.

Ah, well. That's development timelines for you. And it's not like the Player's Guide recommendations are the end-all be-all. I'm definitely looking forward to this one!

Will the Player's Guide for this include advice for playing a necromancer or runesmith in this? A runesmith seems like a natural fit for this sort of story, and I've been thinking about some sort of pyre-tender necromancer, what with the focus in the blurb on funeral rites and cremation.

Ah, true. Well, hopefully they add some more someday, even if they don't have room in this book.

I know page numbers have to be consistent, but I do hope that if there's some freed up space (maybe from where the druid armor used to be), we could get a kinetecist item or two.

90% of America was not 'either Christian or Jewish' in 1974. That makes it sound like it was about half of each, but Christians made up roughly 80% of the population and Jews weren't even 2%. Jews are not an appendage of Christianity, we're our own faith and culture. Politicians don't talk about the Torah - they talk about the Old Testament. For almost everyone, those are Christian references, with Jewish people as an afterthought. That's why many don't like 'Judeo-Christian.' Because it is just 'Christian, but we want to pretend we speak for Jewish people too.'

I'd like a piece of gear or two for kinetecists.

Soralyon's edicts include

craft golems and artwork from stone

Even though 'golem' is no longer used for constructs in Paizo content.

No worries! I have the PDF, and waiting a few days for stuff like this never killed anyone. Wishing you a speedy recovery!

I'm disappointed Vavaalrav's symbol is still a Celtic cross, I was hoping it'd be updated to something not associated with an IRL religion. But the cheat sheet is really handy!

With Divine Mysteries out, I'd also like gargoyle lore because I think you could write some interesting culture from Vavaalrav and Xoveron both having gargoyles as an area of interest, with opposing edicts (creating ruins and preventing maintenance or rebuilding vs protecting and preserving holy ground and creating memorials.) And neither of them are true gods, they're a demon lord and psychopomp usher, and neither (as far as we know) were ever gargoyles or had anything to do with them being created. That all seems like it'd be fun to build off of, in a similar vein as the kholo's complicated relationship with Lamashtu.

Do SPaG errors get reported here too? In the introduction on page 6, it says

"Why is that some mortals worship other gods when the faiths of this “core” selection is so prominent?"

"Why is it that some mortals worship other gods when the faiths of this "core" selection are so prominent?"

I'd love to see an AP follow up on the original Iron Gods, that sounds really fun.

Are there any new summoner eidolons?

Thanks! I've been trying to think of a FoRP character, and setting up a mortal herald seemed like a good way to make the most of the higher starting level. Thanks for taking the time to read it, and the character concept in your post sounds pretty cool!

ornathopter wrote:

Is it the same pool of feats for both?

It all derives from the same dedication feat and there are 29 feats total (including the dedication), but 4 of those are mythic feats (one each at levels 14, 16, 18, and 20) and one of the 16th level archetype feats has the 14th level mythic feat as a prerequisite. The mythic feats have both the archetype tag and the mythic tag.

Wow, that is a ridiculous number for something you only get access to at level 10. I assume that it's so you have a few different branches for being a herald - like, some for being a spellcasty herald, some for being a tank or a stealthy type? Are there any that mesh well with being a kinetecist?

Is it the same pool of feats for both?

ornathopter wrote:

Is it possible to be a mortal herald of a covenant? It could be fun to play that, maybe combined with the godling mythic destiny...

Nope, I’m afraid not. The Prerequisite states, “worshipper of a specific deity, master in Religion or your deity’s divine skill”.

Well, that's disappointing. Being the mortal agent of the concept of alchemy, or community solidarity, or sneaky manipulation, unconcerned with any one god but the idea as a whole, seems like a really fun concept. But it doesn't look like there anything that breaks if you ask your GM to make an exception, so maybe it'll work for home games.

Yeah, that could be fun! The craft sequence gargoyles can also shift from a gargoyle mode to a human passing one, so a yaoguai-type shape changing power like that could be fun, or just giving them an innate spell for an ancestry feat. And I'd love it if they got some sort of ability to ward off spirits or curses or so on.

Also, to be clear, the 'pretending to be a stone statue' thing is from the Battlezoo gargoyles, so I've been bringing it up as a reason why I'd like to see Paizo's version; because the one that exists has mechanics that don't fit the vibe I was hoping for for PCs.

Giving them some sort of ability to attune to a place could be really fun - going 'this is MY turf now' can be fun mechanically and as a character beat, and the Paizo gargoyles do slowly change to match surroundings; that could be a way to mechanically reflect that for PCs.

ornathopter wrote:

....anyways, it works well enough, but I'd still love an official Paizo version of gargoyles. Although probably not with a 'can't stop protecting the castle' requirement - PCs are adventurers after all, and I'd like to be able to play a gargoyle that can go on globe-trotting adventures like every other kind of PC.

Their protective nature could be reflected by their habits though, such as setting an alarm around a camping site.

Their shapeshifting nature could work too, with an ability to diminish their monstruous nature to avoid suspicion.

Oh sure - an optional ability like that, or possibly just a base ability of the ancestry, would be fine. I just don't want "they can no more not protect the castle than not breathe", as in, protecting a location is a mandatory thing they all MUST do and don't get a choice in. I want to be able to play one in Fist of the Ruby Phoenix or Gatewalkers, or any other adventure where there's not one core location to protect and return to.

Being able to shape-shift can also be interesting (although I don't think it's part of Paizo's gargoyle abilities? I've seen it in books like the Craft Sequence, but it's not part of their usual ability set) but I'd rather see it as something like the other shapeshifting ancestries, not "yes, this evil wizard you're fighting just completely forgot he didn't have a statue of a gargoyle decked out in full adventurer gear in his foyer."

Is it possible to be a mortal herald of a covenant? It could be fun to play that, maybe combined with the godling mythic destiny...

JiCi wrote:

Here's an ancestry that is missing and would be wlecomed: Gargoyles

Here's something they should emphasize on: gargoyles were designed to "frighten away evil spirits", but the catch is how "monstruous" gargoyles can be. Logically speaking, an evil spirit wouldn't be easily scared by an equally scary-looking monster, but gargoyles can do so.

Zoken44 wrote:

Defenders of the night? No more able to stop protecting the castle than breathing the air?

I still want to repeat "Figments"
Creatures from the very borders of the Astral Plane who are sometimes perceived and interacted with by young mortals. They come from an ephemeral world but because of the Universe's rigidity are force into solid form, and must relearn to change themselves and exercise their dream logic.

Good news to the both of you. Roll for Combat released a Gargoyle ancestry already, and will be releasing a Figment ancestry next year in their Year of Titans series.

Honestly, the gargoyle ancestry from RFC is find and all, but I'd still really love an official Paizo one, especially with culture lore (Battlezoo's lore was... pretty disappointing to me.) I still don't get why 'clutchswapped' takes up a whole heritage slot, for one thing, and the emphasis on pretending to be a statue makes far less sense for PCs than enemy monsters (a PC might wander into an enemy base and be surprised, but what enemy isn't going to realize that they didn't have a statue of a monster person in full gear in their lair?)

....anyways, it works well enough, but I'd still love an official Paizo version of gargoyles. Although probably not with a 'can't stop protecting the castle' requirement - PCs are adventurers after all, and I'd like to be able to play a gargoyle that can go on globe-trotting adventures like every other kind of PC.

Are there elemental covenants besides the air ones? Also, this is extremely niche, but does the psychopomp usher Vavaalrav have a new symbol (as in, not a cross), or any changed or new information from what's on AON or the wiki?

Elric200 wrote:

Can anyone post some info on the Avenger Archetype?

Avenger

- Rogue Class Archetype
- Choose a god to follow
- It is referred to as the Avenger Racket
- You are trained in your deity's favored weapon and that scales with your other weapon proficiency
- You can do sneak attack with your gods favored weapon (using this weapon is highly encouraged by the feat choice as well). So worshipers of Ashukharma and Szuriel can, for example, sneak attack with a Greatsword
- Dedication gives +1 to saves vs. divine spells and effects that do spirit damage as well as the ability to use Religion to Coerce, Gather Info, or Track as long as the city has a church dedicated to your god in it.
- My favorite feat is lvl 8 that lets you make an attach as a reaction to anybody casting a spell and if that attach hits, it disrupts the spell. The only requirement is it is your deity's favored weapon, so if it can be thrown or is ranged, it works too (as long as it is within your range increment).

Does the Avenger rogue have a way to make opponents off-guard, the way the other rackets do?

The-Magic-Sword wrote:

Old_Man_Robot wrote:

I saw some people talking about new Fighter feats. Did any other classes get additional feats, outside of class archetypes?

Yes, the Avenger Class Archetype section has a little section stapled onto the end that provides two spear feats for the Rogue Ranger AND Fighter.

Spear Rogue you say, now that could be interesting.

To be clear, that's a new feat that can be taken by any rogues/rangers/fighters, not just ones that take the new archetypes?

What's the deal with the Broken Chain? Some sort of mythic escape artist or freedom fighter? Also, did you notice anything interesting with the Vindicator?

I want to see more champion causes, especially some sort of Green Knight defender of the wild cause.

Thanks! Since the header on the wiki's table of contents was Gifts plural, I thought there might be more than one. Anyways thanks for the info!

Could someone please share

I hope we get a few more Champion causes in this one - I'd really like to see a nature-focused champion (if Vindicator is a ranger but religion, why not a champion but nature?) Something about protecting the wilds, or guarding growth. Or maybe an archival Champion or one focused on banishing the undead - this seems like a great book to just put a few more in.

Operatic, I think?

Wow, I'm excited! And as a Jewish fan I'm glad the inquisitor's name was changed. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on this!

So, would you be able to use a claw or jaw or tail attack instead of a fist with Spirit Warrior?

I've been a bit confused about the Spirit Warrior and Cultivator archetypes - it seems like they have two mutually exclusive specialties, but within the same archetype (kaiju defense vs trickster bane, good cultivator vs death cultivator). How does that work? (Also, do the Kaiju Defenders get any particularly fun, kaiju-themed abilities, like atomic breath?)

Technomancer and Mechanist will be playtested early in 2025.

Personally I'm hoping for a monster ancestry book, or something like a more Halloweeny howl of the wild - all the spooky, semi-villainous or misunderstood options. Friendly harpies, benevolent necromancers, guardian gargoyles, whatever. Although that'd be unlikely to be announced anytime soon.