Considering the other thread on this forum right now (this one) this has made me think it would've helped quite a bit if Sneak had the Prerequisite "You are hidden or undetected to one or more creatures" (although given how this is all Secret checks, that probably wouldn't work either).
But yeah, as has been pointed out, Sneak doesn't do anything if you're Observed to everybody. The loop is meant to be Hide->Sneak, at it's base.
Though it does work better if you can negate the action tax. I played a Halfling Gunslinger (Sniper) w/ Assassin Archetype and thanks to Covered Reload + Ceaseless Shadows I was extremely effective.
Correct. It's not that you can't Sneak out of the blue, it's simply that it does nothing because of this line:
"At the end of your movement, the GM rolls your Stealth check in secret and compares the result to the Perception DC of each creature you were hidden from or undetected by at the start of your movement."
If you were not hidden or undetected from anyone when you began your movement, it does nothing except halve your speed.
Legendary Sneak lets you attempt to Hide anywhere, at any time. This may (or may not) cause you be Hidden from one or more creatures. You can then use Sneak, also anywhere, anytime, with the effects of the action.
The Spark moves between Ikons when you use Transcendence abilities, not between items, so to speak. Because you can only ever have one Titan's Breaker, the spark must move somewhere else when you Transcend.
As for the Resistance, the general rule is you always round down unless specified otherwise (Player Core, Page 399, in the Game Conventions Sidebar). If the ability doesn't say "minimum 1" or otherwise indicate it, then the ability provides no bonus until you're level 2.
The Dedication says "You can take the Cleric Dedication feat without needing to meet its prerequisites and before you take two other feats from the Razmiran priest archetype, but you must choose Razmir as your deity."
But what if I DO meet the prerequisites? Can I select a deity other than Razmir then? It seems that, that requirement is only needed to cheat the standard prerequisites and gain the Dedication perks.
It later goes on to say "when gained in this way" implying that you can gain it another (the standard) way.
If you do meet the pre-requisites then yes you can take Cleric Dedication for any other Deity you want, following the usual rules. And you could still keep taking feats from Razmiran Priest, since the archetype doesn't require you to take Cleric Dedication for Razmir at any point, nor does it say you lose the benefits if you worship another god.
The thing is though, because Razmiran Priest only has 2nd, 6th, 10th and 20th level feats, the earliest you could take proper Cleric Dedication would be 12th, or 9th with Multitalented.
An interesting quirk here that I'm not sure is intended is that you could, technically, take Razmiran Priest Dedication and then, using either Multitalented or just waiting until level 12th, take Cleric Dedication and choose Razmir as your deity, gaining actual divine power from him. Since gaining devotee powers from him only requires having the Archetype, not the Archetype's particular brand of Cleric Dedication.
Or you could be a Cleric of a proper deity, take the dedication, then change your deity to Razmir. Which is even funnier.
Actually, you could take Cleric Dedication at 4 with Razmiran Priest. The dedication feat itself allows this in the first sentence of paragraph two.
You can, but it's not "proper" Cleric Dedication. It has several caveats (you don't need to meet prerequisites, it uses Charisma and not Wisdom, the spells are Occult, you can only choose Razmir, etc.)
RavingDork and my post are talking about taking the dedication without those caveats, IE you meet the Wisdom pre-requisite and you take it after taking 2 feats in Razmiran Priest. And the shenanigans that ensue.
The Dedication says "You can take the Cleric Dedication feat without needing to meet its prerequisites and before you take two other feats from the Razmiran priest archetype, but you must choose Razmir as your deity."
But what if I DO meet the prerequisites? Can I select a deity other than Razmir then? It seems that, that requirement is only needed to cheat the standard prerequisites and gain the Dedication perks.
It later goes on to say "when gained in this way" implying that you can gain it another (the standard) way.
If you do meet the pre-requisites then yes you can take Cleric Dedication for any other Deity you want, following the usual rules. And you could still keep taking feats from Razmiran Priest, since the archetype doesn't require you to take Cleric Dedication for Razmir at any point, nor does it say you lose the benefits if you worship another god.
The thing is though, because Razmiran Priest only has 2nd, 6th, 10th and 20th level feats, the earliest you could take proper Cleric Dedication would be 12th, or 9th with Multitalented.
An interesting quirk here that I'm not sure is intended is that you could, technically, take Razmiran Priest Dedication and then, using either Multitalented or just waiting until level 12th, take Cleric Dedication and choose Razmir as your deity, gaining actual divine power from him. Since gaining devotee powers from him only requires having the Archetype, not the Archetype's particular brand of Cleric Dedication.
Or you could be a Cleric of a proper deity, take the dedication, then change your deity to Razmir. Which is even funnier.
The way I see it: Razmiran Priest lets you take Cleric Dedication. Cleric Dedication states:
"Choose a deity as you would if you were a cleric. You become bound by that deity’s anathema and can receive that deity’s divine sanctification. You become trained in Religion and your deity’s associated skill; for each of these skills in which you were already trained, you instead become trained in a skill of your choice. You don’t gain any other abilities from your choice of deity."
And then, in Cleric, under Anathema:
"If you perform enough acts that are anathema to your deity, you lose the magical abilities that come from your connection to your deity. The class features that you lose are determined by the GM, but they likely include your divine font and all cleric spellcasting."
And Razmir has Anathema, which are:
"Anathema: disobey Razmir or one of his priests, question the truth of the Living God"
Which means, if your priest loses faith, which would mean questioning the truth of the Living God, you'd likely lose access to all your cleric spellcasting, retaining everything else, but it's up to the GM in the end.
Well as I read it, Rupture is damage that must be dealt to the creature using Swallow Whole, which in this case would be the caster.
Plus, wouldn't we need to use the caster's own Athletics DC for Escape, and their AC and resistances (if any) for the Rupture? Because it's either that or doing it out of thin air.
Which makes me think the interdimensional space is linked to the caster and the caster will take damage.
If the extradimensional space came with it's own set of statistics it would be different, but that's not the case.
1. The Attack trait does not in any way mean that it can't be used on an ally.
You could use Strike on an ally if you really wanted to.
The ally might have something to say about that...
But the rules don't.
Snapping them out of a Confusion effect is the most common reason I've seen to slap a friend around. Or kicking them in the shins.
no good scallywag wrote:
How does this compromise sound...
A PC can auto succeed a reposition of an ally by using a manipulate action.
That's fine. Like Hammerjack says, I use the gliminal sidebar to adjudicate these things, though I allow PCs to Critically Fail any save they take if they so desire.
I was thinking about choosing Artisan Calling for my Crafting Witch because I want my goblin to evolve into a god of crafting. But the anathema of this Calling seems extremely limiting compared to the other Callings. Or have I just misunderstood it? In principle, I can't use anything that I haven't made myself. It's also almost impossible to have all the skills to make everything yourself.
It's one of those that depends on how lenient your GM wants to be. Since the anathema is "use a weapon or item crafted by someone else, except for the purpose of learning its function so you can understand how to create it yourself"
That last part is super vague, since it can be anything from "well you immediately know what this does, so you can't use it" (if, say, the item is uncommon) to "well you have the formula for it, so now you know the ins and outs and can't use it until you craft it" to "well this is a rather unique item so you'll never truly learn how to create it".
The "destroy the creations of other artisans" is also pretty bad, since again it's a bit too vague. Would destroying the trebuchets the enemy is using to beseige the city count? What about sinking a pirate ship? What about facing constructs in battle?
Not entirely sure what the idea was behind kneecapping Artisan this way, none of the other anathema are even close to these in how they restrict player characters.
In that case what is a good sturdy instrument that our barbarian can use to rhymically and soundlessly batter down the door or break the interrogated prisoner?
Upright piano
Subcontrabass saxophone
Octobass
Pedal Harp
Or if you want to go ludricrous (unlike the above obviously):
Cathedral pipe organ
Earth harp
Five meter drum
Well, I guess someone riding a horse has invested resources (Animal Companion / Mount) into it, a Centaur hasn't. It just feels odd.
A centaur has technically invested in being a Centaur, with all the good and bad that brings. If a player wanted the jousting bonus I'd honestly probably make it into a 1st level Ancestry feat.
Things like Spellhearts are staples of every PC that can cast a spell, and they are significant power that once did not exist. That's the kind of power creep I'm most worried by.
I thought spellhearts were essentially reusable talismans used for giving non-casters access to select spells.
It has never even occurred to me to give them to spellcasters.
They're a good source for Cantrips that are outside your Tradition. Though I'll admit I've only ever seen the Jolt Coil (it gives electric arc) and trinity geode (it gives scatter scree) in play. The others are mostly ignored.
Except of course the Phantasmal Doorknob, which is used by basically all martials that know it exists, though not for the spell (dazzled on crit no save is pretty sweet).
Is there any easy way to apply restrain easily as a martial outside of critically succeeding on a grapple check? I am rather curious as I am making a Wrestling Grappling Shark Instinct Animal Barbarian dual-class Exemplar for a game.
Honestly, the only thing holding the Spirit Warrior archetype back compared to the other two is having to invest in both a normal weapon for Runes as well as Handwraps, but if you're running an ABP game (as I am for at least two tables), it's basically a no-brainer option, especially for Rogue types, and that it's an Uncommon choice.
I really think Paizo should take another passover for these recent Rarity options, because it's starting to feel more and more like Rarity is being used to gatekeep powerful options instead of gatekeeping regional or truly inaccessible options, like it was originally intended to do.
Spirit Warrior has a 6th level feat to apply your Handwrap Runes to whatever weapon you're holding. And that same feat makes it so that targets you hit with a weapon are off-guard against your next unarmed attack and vice-versa.
And this isn't even getting into the fact Spirit Warrior Dedication, in addition to giving you Flurry of Blows/Twin Takedown, also upgrades your Fist to d6 and gives it Parry.
There's been quite a few "??" choices in recent publications to be sure.
If your fall is slow enough that it won't deal any damage to you, it won't deal any damage to anything or anyone you're carrying. I'd check encumbrance to see if you can actually carry them, and if you can, cool.
Fire Jet doesn't have the Move trait itself, but what it does is allow you to Stride. Stride does have the Move trait, and per the Subordinate Actions rules:
"An action might allow you to use a simpler action—usually one of the Basic Actions on page 416—in a different circumstance or with different effects. This subordinate action still has its normal traits and effects, but it's modified in any ways listed in the larger action. For example, an activity that tells you to Stride up to half your Speed alters the normal distance you can move in a Stride. The Stride would still have the move trait, would still trigger reactions that occur based on movement, and so on. The subordinate action doesn't gain any of the traits of the larger action unless specified"
Therefore, you can't use Burning Jet while immobilised. Or rather, you can, but when it comes time to Stride you would be unable to, making it a wasted action.
I know it's not up on AoN yet, but I think you may be happy with the Spirit Warrior archetype from the Tian Xia Character Guide. Its dedication gives you that combo-like attack that monks get, but open up the weapons you can use with it to include stuff like katanas and longswords.
I wanna like this, I really do, but there's one problem... it doesn't have a baseline class that goes with it well.
It'd work great with Swash or Rogue if I could get +2 to Strength to use a longsword or a katana effectively, but no dice.
I actually think that the new Fighter archetype would also be pretty viable if it allowed the use of swords.
Ruffian and (as of War of Immortals) Avenger Rogues can get Strength as their KAS, and both can Sneak Attack with Katanas. Only Avengers can SA with Longswords though.
Swashes and Dex Rogues would have to go for the Dueling Sword (which has always been depicted as a weird katana) to get the same "feel".
Of all the ikons listed, literally none require their immanence effect for their transcendence effect to work -- not even Skin Hard as Horn, whose transcendence effect currently doesn't fully work as written due to the transcendence causing you to lose the resistance from its immanence, unless you Shift Immanence back to it just for that purpose.
Skin as Hard as Horn works fine. You do lose the resistance from Immanence, but the Trascendence specifically upgrades it until the start of your next turn.
Attuning a damage type is independent of either Immanence ro Trascendence, so the whole thing works fine for your Archetype rework idea.
I'd say Elven Verve would only apply to things that apply the listed condition specifically.
Grapple does not inflice Immobilized, it inflicts either Grabbed or Restrained, so Verve doesn't apply.
That said, your point about Save DC is correct, so if an effect would impose Immobilised, Paralyzed or Slowed on you and it's rolling against one of your DCs, it would apply.
I'm pretty sure the rules don't mention obstacles beyond the chase/infiltration rules, which wouldn't apply here.
I'd say an obstacle is anything that would completely block movement or prevent you from occupying a space. Walls, crates, pillars, barrels, that sort of thing.
A pool of lava, a big bonfire, a cliff, a pit full of spikes, and so on would not count in my games.
This is one of those places where the GM will need to make a ruling.
Correct, Elemental Blast was its own bespoke action. However, by picking up Elemental Weapon as a 1st level feat, you would get a weapon that used your Elemental Blast proficiency but could make normal Strikes, so stuff like Mythic Strike would be fine with those.
(Side note but I find interesting that it seems people don't hoard their playtest pdfs like I do. Its very interesting to see how design changed, for better or worse.)
He could definitely get the Handwraps, but you're not missing much at all.
Keep in mind it's a 16 level feat (meaning, 8th Rank spells are on the table) but it's giving you only 6th Rank Form of the Dragon. Then keep in mind battle form spells, by design, can't keep up with a martial, because nobody wants a repeat of CoDZilla.
So yeah if your player doesn't need the 100 foot fly speed or breath weapon, not much reason to take it.
But you're the GM, so you can change it. I think at the very least you could simply give him the same Attack Bonus as his weapon (and it'll ease up on book keeping), that should make it sting less.
Or give him access to 8th Rank Form of the Dragon, that's another option.
What is the range for the drag effect of the Grasping Spirits Spell feat (WoI 23)?
Can I drag someone who is not within the spell's standard range? For example, can I use it on a spell with 30-foot range, to drag someone 60 feet away into the spell's range?
Grasping Spell does two things:
- It increases the range of your next spell that targets one creature by 30 feet (or to 30 feet if it was a touch spell, as normal).
- You can pull the target of that spell up to 30 feet towards you, Fortitude Save negates.
If your spell has a 30 foot range, it would increase to 60 feet (per the first effect) and you could then pull them closer, which would leave them 30 feet from you if you decide to pull them the whole way.
If a creature is outside your spell's range even with grasping spell's extra 30 feet, then the creature isn't a valid target and the extra effect from Grasping Spell wouldn't apply, since it's an effect added onto the spell and the spells can't affect creatures outside their range.
Imagine you have a Troll at Doomed 2 and Wounded 1 (it got downed earlier). A PC crits the Troll, which would send it to Dying 3. Because of Doomed 2, Dying 3 would mean death, and Regeneration states Dying can't increase past the point it would kill you. Therefore, the Troll is now Unconscious and Dying 2.
On the next round a Player increases the Troll's Doomed condition to 3 with an ability (like Zealous Inevitability or Piercing Doom). The Troll now dies since it was at Dying 2. It's Dying value did not increase, it stayed the same, so Regeneration doesn't kick in. The troll just Dies because with Doomed 3, you die at Dying 2, which the Troll is at.
By default dying 4-> death. So at doomed 2: dying 2-> death. And at doomed 3: dying 1 -> death. Your examples are skewed.
Oops, that's what I get for not checking properly. Reduce the Doomed values by 1 and it still works.
You can always just say "You cannot do it" but the Oregon Trail happened in the real world, and we're talking people who can throw balls of fire and conjure angels, so a little off-roading isn't absurd as long as they put work into it and they have a few levels to work with.
I know, but if the GM wants to say no, they can say no. Being real, by 5th level this becomes a complete non-issue if you have an Arcane Caster because you can cast Shrink Item on your vehicle and transport it as a coin wherever you need to.
Agonarchy wrote:
Last year, the world record for getting a vehicle to drive up a mountain was porsche driven up the Ojos del Salado volcano, up to 22,093 feet, so over four miles above sea level.
That was really impressive but also not even close to what we're talking about. It was a question of horsepower and traction. Going up the Ojos del Salado is like climbing a series of very big, rocky slopes. And I should note, they didn't make it to the summit proper either, even though it has been reached on foot.
There's also a contradiction between Player Core and Monster Core regarding regeneration. The former says dying can't increase to a value that would kill you. The latter just says it can't go beyond dying 3. This contradiction predates the remaster.
The interaction between Doomed and Dying should still work mostly the same though.
Imagine you have a Troll at Doomed 2 and Wounded 1 (it got downed earlier). A PC crits the Troll, which would send it to Dying 3. Because of Doomed 2, Dying 3 would mean death, and Regeneration states Dying can't increase past the point it would kill you. Therefore, the Troll is now Unconscious and Dying 2.
On the next round a Player increases the Troll's Doomed condition to 3 with an ability (like Zealous Inevitability or Piercing Doom). The Troll now dies since it was at Dying 2. It's Dying value did not increase, it stayed the same, so Regeneration doesn't kick in. The troll just Dies because with Doomed 3, you die at Dying 2, which the Troll is at.
It is a bit trickier in this example if the ability that crits the Troll is the one that increases Doomed. IIRC you finish applying conditions and then substract the HP, so the Troll would go to Doomed 3 first, which means they would be Unconscious and Dying 1 (since Dying 2 and 3 would kill it). But I'm not entirely sure about order of operations here.
You can always rule the terrain is just too rough for the vehicle in question, if you feel it appropiate as GM.
The Travel Speed rules (Player Core, page 438) say if you're travelling through difficult terrain, you halve your speed (round down) and if you're in greater difficult terrain, it's reduced to one third of its normal amount. With a vehicle this would represent the characters having to stop to clear stuff out of the way or cut a path through, or just having to be careful in narrow mountain trails.
And you can of course say that travelling through a forest would be normal speed for people on foot or on horse, but difficult terrain for a wagon. Though if time isn't of the essence there's not much reason to rule this way unless it leads to a more fun experience in and of itself.
Everyone just keeps arguing that 'it is RAW' as though that also means that it is RAI.
As I mentioned earlier, it is also RAW that you can't even swing a greatsword at a ghost even if the sword has the Ghost Touch rune. But that isn't RAI either.
The errata page is full of things that used to be RAW that aren't RAI. People are clamoring for plenty more changes like that for War of Immortals.
Can someone actually provide an RAI argument that allows Liturgist Sustain using Tumble Through when it has no mechanical difference from Stride to be used in place of Stride - which is not on the list of approved actions.
So far the best I have seen is 'it isn't TGTBT'.
Why should this be allowed?
Not: Is it allowed by RAW?
Not: Can I prove that it is too bad if not allowed?
What is the RAI argument in support?
To allow the Liturgist to Sustain with any kind of movement, since Tumble Through allows them to Climb/Swim/Fly/Burrow; and to allow the Liturgist to Sustain while attempting to get out of a sticky situation by trying to move through Spaces containing hostile creatures. You know, the things that make Tumble Through different from Stride.
The developers are clearly aware of how Tumble Through works. I can argue that if the intent was for it to trigger on a succesfull Acrobatics check to Tumble Through they would've written that. But it'd also mean of the three it'd be the only one that requires a succesful skill check, which is odd.
This idea that the intent we're discussing (that Tumble Through is a better Stride) is somehow impossible is weird, because the same argument can apply to Leap, especially by 9th level. If someone has a Leap of their Speed (or greater), and they Leap everywhere instead of Striding in order to Sustain, is that "cheese" too?
And I turn the question back to you: why shouldn't this be allowed? If it doesn't fall under TGTBT and it works RAW, what grounds do you have to disallow beyond "I don't like it"?
Things start getting weird if the creature getting doomed has regeneration, though. A creature with regeneration cannot increase to a dying value that would kill it. Doomed lowers the dying value that would kill it.
Regeneration doesn't say that, it says:
"Its dying condition never increases beyond dying 3 as long as its regeneration is active."
I've always seen stacking Doomed on creatures with Regeneration as another way of killing them, like Death Effects or Suffocation (the ol' reliable).
What was unclear before was how Doomed interacted with just run of the mill creatures, since the rules say:
Normal creatures at 0 HP:
"Creatures can't be reduced to fewer than 0 Hit Points. When most creatures reach 0 Hit Points, they die and are removed from play unless the attack was nonlethal, in which case they're instead knocked out for a significant amount of time (usually 10 minutes or more). When undead and constructs reach 0 Hit Points, they're destroyed.
Player characters, their companions, and other significant characters and creatures don't automatically die when they reach 0 Hit Points. Instead, they are knocked out and are at risk of death. The GM might determine that villains, powerful monsters, special NPCs, and enemies with special abilities that are likely to bring them back to the fight (like ferocity, regeneration, or healing magic) can use these rules as well."
So what happened to normal goblins, which don't really have a dying value? Did they die at Doomed 1? 2? Never?
But the abilities in War of Immortals all point to Doomed 4 = Dead for basically everyone and everything, which is nice.
If it was intended to sustain a spell for a Stride, then I would think that Stride would be on the list.
"When you Leap, Step, or Tumble Through, you also Sustain an apparition spell or vessel spell."
Leaving off Stride because the developer knows that Tumble Through can be used to Stride feels like a gotcha rather than a reasonable word count saving measure.
So the benefit of the doubt that I am giving the developers is that they aren't deliberately trying to mislead players who don't know every fine and fiddly detail of every action printed. I don't think that the developers sit around going "You know, if we leave off Stride and include Tumble Through, then all of the experienced and knowledgeable players will still be aware that they can sustain for free just by doing the Stride equivalent Tumble Through. We don't need to include that one word and comma to support all of the newer and less experienced players."
I consider it cheese. You don't have to. Not everyone is going to. But I do.
But Tumble Through doesnt just let you stride, it also lets you Climb, Fly, Burrow, Swim, etc. If they only put Stride, those don't work.
Also this isn't a fine and fiddly detail, it's literally reading what the action does, which I expect players to do, because they're playing this game.
It's like saying "You can't Step into difficult terrain, and you can't Step using a Speed other than your land Speed." is a fiddly detail in the Step action.
By RAW, you can't make a Strike action against a Hungry Ghost with a +1 Ghost Touch Greatsword. The attack roll of Strike with a greatsword is a Strength-based check, and Incorporeal creatures are immune to all strength-based checks.
But yes, it is up to the GM to determine where to draw the line.
The problem here is assuming this is cheese. It could very well not be, because we don't know development intent.
It could be they used Tumble Through because they (mistakenly) thought it can only be used when you're trying to move through a creature's space, despite the fact this isn't the case. So sure, it's a mistake and it should be errata'd.
Or, it could be they used Tumble Through because they know it allows people to Stride normally, while also giving them the option to change that Stride into another form of movement, while also allowing them to try and get through an enemy if so desired, and they wanted the Liturgist to have all those options available.
As much as I rag on the developers we need to give them the benefit of the doubt sometimes. This is one of those cases where it could go either way.
Tumble through is an untrained action that states, "you Stride up to your Speed. During this movement, you can try to move through the space of one enemy. Attempt an Acrobatics check against the enemy's Reflex DC as soon as you try to enter its space. You can Tumble Through using Climb, Fly, Swim, or another action instead of Stride in the appropriate environment"
My question is, do you even need to ever stride when tumble through covers striding with no additional requirements? If you can just replace stride with tumble through, the liturgist animist is a lot stronger than it already reads once it hits level 9.
RAW, you are correct. Tumble Through is a Stride with a can clause. If you want to use it to just Stride, you absolutely can. If the second sentence said "During this movement, you must try to move..." it'd be different.
But as it is, you can absolutely use Tumble Through instead of Stride whenever you want. Which does indeed make Liturgist the most powerful Practice by far.
It's up to a GM to discourage this if they have a problem with it.
As written? It could be all of them, or it could be none of them.
It depends on how you interpret melee weapon ikon, which all of these feats require.
Is it a meleeweapon ikon, meaning any weapon icon that isn't a ranged weapon? Then all of them apply, and it's up to you to flavor them. Maybe Hurl at the Horizon is you chopping the air so hard you make shockwaves.
Is it a melee weaponikon, meaning it's an ikon that is a melee weapon? Then none of them apply, because unarmed attacks are not melee weapons.
I'm inclined to go for the first option, but you could read it both ways. It doesn't help that all the descriptions talk about Weapon Ikons as being actual items, especially this part:
"Body ikons accentuate a physical trait of your body and so can’t be stolen, disarmed, dispelled, or otherwise taken away. Weapon and worn ikons are tied to items of power. When you select one, you gain a nonmagical, level-0 item of your choice that matches its usage entry. Providence ensures you come across these items; you might be traveling along a path to find a spear in a tree that only you can dislodge, or you might awaken holding a gleaming sash you saw in your dreams."
So yeah, it's a bit of a mess, and you're not silly or dumb to be unsure of how Unarmed Attack Ikons fit into this.
I've noticed a disturbing trend in recent paizo publications that is power creeping other melee options to exceed my beloved Double Slice. Gleaming Blade is officially beyond the pale. Now, without investing in a second weapon, a fighter or barbarian or anything really can pick up exemplar dedication, and absolutely destroy doubleslice in a dpr race (d12 weapon vs d8, +2 spirit dmg per hit). For the same cost (1 class feat/dedication feat for games with free archetype).
Remove the imminence ability from the Archetype entirely and it would still be a valid pickup. Paizo pls nerf!
But the Transcendence effect is effectively 3 actions after the first time you use it, since you need to Shift Immanence in order to able to use it again.
Obviously in a white room where both stand next to an HP blob and whack it to death Gleaming Blade wins, but in a real fight the Double Slice martial has 1 action to do something else, while the multiclass essentially becomes a melee Magus trying to Spellstrike each turn, except they have no way of recharging it except Shift Immanence.
EDIT: I forgot, but also minor point, Gleaming Blade's Transcendence turns all damage into Spirit, which can be good or bad depending on the situation, unless you spend a Feat to be able to change it.
Okay guys let us think about this, Exemplar Dedication is powerful but if you nerf it and remove the immenance effect, I think we need to also nerf Psychic and stop the Imaginary Weapon Magus cheese then. This is just the Martial Version of the Imaginary Magus Cheese which I always had problems with because it feels like an unintended combination but if an extra 2 damage per weapon die is scary with a maybe usuable transcended effect then is the 2 feat Giant Instinct Barbarian +6 Rage damage also bad or 2 feat investment Gravity Weapon? Is it literally the fact you don't need 2 feats for this archetype but instead reqiuire to recharge it with 1 action like Spellstrike?
I play a starlit span magus. You don't get imaginary weapon at level 2. And even then it still costs a resource (focus points). And it's widely considered to be one of the best tools in the game.
This is substantially better. At a lower level with easier access requirements.
Imaginary Weapon doesn't cost Focus Points unless you Amp it, which is optional. And without Amping it it's still great (hard to beat 2d8 + 1d8 per rank).
It's good, but Gouging Claw is 2d6 + 2 bleed +1d6/+1 bleed per rank which is equivalent. Nevermind that if the target has an elemental weakness then the cantrip matching that well likely exceed either of the physical options.
It is equivalent on paper, but not in reality. For one, there's a lot of creatures immune to bleed damage (most undead and constructs, just to start). For two, persistent damage doesn't stack with itself, so if the enemy is already suffering from a source of bleed (even a previous gouging claw) then it does nothing. And lastly, the Bleed damage will not actually take place until the end of the enemies' next turn, so Gouging Claw might leave an enemy alive to punish you that Imaginary Weapon would not.
Gouging Claw is still good though, but I wouldn't rank it above Imaginary Weapon even before taking into account Amp. As you said though, other cantrips would be situationally more useful depending on weaknesses/resistances.
The only reason I've been so critical is I actually like a lot of the stuff introduced here and it needs only a liiiiiiiiiiittle bit of work to be excellent all around.
But stuff I like unconditionally?
- The Exemplar
- The Animist
- The Avenger
- The Warrior of Legend
- The Mythic Destinies
- The new normal and mythic items
- All the fiction in the book
Mathematics aside, it should be flanking because otherwise two large creatures could only flank medium (or smaller) creatures diagonally, and that's stupid.
Yeah I was going to say, Barrow's Edge would be the best fit. It's just a pity Hands of the Wildling is so bad not just when compared to the other Ikons but also just on its own.
Okay guys let us think about this, Exemplar Dedication is powerful but if you nerf it and remove the immenance effect, I think we need to also nerf Psychic and stop the Imaginary Weapon Magus cheese then. This is just the Martial Version of the Imaginary Magus Cheese which I always had problems with because it feels like an unintended combination but if an extra 2 damage per weapon die is scary with a maybe usuable transcended effect then is the 2 feat Giant Instinct Barbarian +6 Rage damage also bad or 2 feat investment Gravity Weapon? Is it literally the fact you don't need 2 feats for this archetype but instead reqiuire to recharge it with 1 action like Spellstrike?
I play a starlit span magus. You don't get imaginary weapon at level 2. And even then it still costs a resource (focus points). And it's widely considered to be one of the best tools in the game.
This is substantially better. At a lower level with easier access requirements.
Imaginary Weapon doesn't cost Focus Points unless you Amp it, which is optional. And without Amping it it's still great (hard to beat 2d8 + 1d8 per rank).
Mathematics aside, it should be flanking because otherwise two large creatures could only flank medium (or smaller) creatures diagonally, and that's stupid.
You're literally sandwiched between them, you're flanked.
I feel like the big one they didn't include is "the scholar".
You have your outsider based ones, you have your warrior, you have your caster, you have your leader, you have the beast lord, and even an emerging god, but for someone straight up depicting the Wise one, the Scholar, the reknown Teacher, there's nothing for that.
Yeah, we're missing the Scholar/Sage and the Trickster/Super Thief.
Thief/Tricksters at least have plenty of support in the non-Destiny Mythic Feats, but Sages/Bookkeepers don't, which is a damn shame.
Honestly if you ask me I would've cut Apocalypse Rider for a Sage-type Destiny.
But hey at least they could add more at a later date.
1) First off, Split Shot was changed in Player Core 2, it now only deals half damage to the 2nd target, the 1st target still takes full damage. Archives of Nethys hasn't yet updated the feat, so keep that in mind.
I'd treat Rage Damage as Sorcerous Potency in this case: add it first, then halve. And per the rules, if you halve damage, you don't split the dice. You'd roll 2d4+2, halve the result (round down, minimum 1) and apply it. You don't split it into two rolls of d4+1.
2) Yes, plus anything else that would apply on a failure. For example if you cast a first rank Live Wire and miss, you'd do d4 electricity + your rage damage.
3) Correct, Surging Blood Magic is 1 extra damage if you're Drained 1 and Rising makes it 3 extra damage if you're Drained 2 or more.
4) No, Exultant Blood Magic has an instead clause. So instead of Rage+3 from Rising, you get Ragex2. So for a Bloodrager at that level, it'd be +9 Damage (8 from Spec + 1 from Surging) if they're Drained 1, and 16 (8 from spec x 2 from Exultant) if they're Drained 2+.
5) If you're Drained 2+ and have Exultant Blood Magic, you will deal 16 damage on a failure, yes. If you're Drained 1 you will deal 9, and if you're not Drained you will deal 8.
6) It doesn't say anywhere, I'm afraid. I'd personally run it like Sorcerous Potency and make it the same damage type as the original spell.
There's nothing that says per die anywhere in the Transcendence.
Basically it changes from 2/die to flat+die.
I'm inclined to think it would rather be 2 per weapon damage die + flat bonus + other modifiers rather than just flat + other modifiers because otherwise the flat bonus is going to almost always going to be lower than the bonus you already got from the 2/weapon damage die. It also explicitly says it increases the additional damage from the immanence, while this would actually reduce it.
It's because it's not replacing +2/die with +4/+6/+8, it's replacing it with 1d+4, 2d+6 and 3d+8
Lets say you're using a Meteor Hammer.
At lvl 1, you go from +2 to d8+4
At lvl 4, you go from +4 to d8+4
At level 10, you go from +4 to 2d8+6
At level 12, you go from +6 to 2d8+6
At level 18, you go from +6 to 3d8+8
At level 19, you go from +8 to 3d8+8
At level 20, if you get a mythic rune, you go from +10 to 3d8+8.
It's only at 20th level that the flat bonus is less than what you're getting from weapon damage die, and even then I'm sure you can see 3d8+8 is always going to be more than +10.
Ugh, I swear I don't try to stir up arguments on the forums. Most of the time.
Can you speak more to Mythic Weapons?
That sounds like a potentiality cool story telling tool to defeat the one and only Mythic big bad, who already kicked the party's butts once.
Do Mythic Weapons do anything behind defeating mythic resistance?
Hey don't feel down, you didn't write the rules.
As for Mythic Weapons, first of all we have Mythic Fundamental Runes. They basically just add 1 over existing runes (so +4 to AC, +4 to saves, +5 to attacks, weapons deal 5 dice of damage). All of them also have a special reaction that costs a Mythic point to activate:
- Mythic Armor Potency turns a Critical Success on a Strike against you into a Success (if the source was Mythic) or a Failure (if the source was not).
- Mythic Armor Resiliency turns Critical Failure on a save you roll into a Failure (if the source was mythic) or a Success (if the source was not).
- Mythic Striking lets you reroll your weapon damage dice and keep the highest result.
- Mythic Weapon Potency lets you reroll a Strike at Mythic Proficiency and keep the best of two results.
All of these can only be crafted by someone who can make Crafting checks at Mythic Proficiency.
We also get three specific magic weapons: Freedom's Flame (Level 21), a morningstar used by Courage Heart; Shadowpiercer (Level 23), a spear used by Horse Lord Iriatykis in her fight against the Shadow Court of Nidal; and finally Gut-Ripper (Level 7), an ogre hook used by the example Mythic Brute, which is a level 7 ogre boss. All of them have special abilities, though interestingly Freedom's Flame and Shadowpiercer are both +4 major striking, not mythic striking, which I thought was kind of weird.
When you do that, this means their existing strengths will be unchanged while their few weaknesses will be made into mythically potent defenses.
You'll just learn to use Will save spells on Brutes and Fortitude based ones on nearly everything else.
Only Ambushers can have Mythic Resilience 3 times (and they will get it) but all the other ones just can't. So you should target the weakest save.
I find the Resistance much more problematic as it basically shuts down some characters with no way to get through it while others will just ignore it...
Mythic Resistance and Strike Immunity much less of a problem because at least they can be bypassed in several ways.
For one thing, if your characters are Mythic, that's it. Resistance and Immunity need not apply, they might as well not exist.
If your characters are not Mythic, keep in mind both of them are specifically against Strikes, with a capital S. Which means stuff like kineticisit blasts works fine, at least.
If your characters are not Mythic and they rely on Strikes, they can get Mythic Weapons. And I know this sounds super hard, but the book literally has a Level 7 Mythic Weapon statted, so it's not like they all need to be Level 20+ like the Runes would suggest.
Mythic Resilience meanwhile has 0 counterplay beyond "target a different save" and that might or might not be possible (hello Kineticists!). It really does punish everyone using saves a lot more than Resistance does for Strike users, particularly if we're talking Mythic Characters who just ignore resistance.
It honestly seems like Resilience should be vs non-mythic stuff only to put it in line with the other defensive abilities, but it is what it is.
What's the word on Mythic Monster templates? How much stronger are they than un-templated versions of the same monsters?
Do the made originally as mythic monster give any indication of how mythic one must be to fight them? Or is it feasible for non- mythic heroes to best them?
So, in order:
- Mythic Templates always give the monster Extreme in a Skill modifier (Stealth for the Ambusher, Athletics for the Brute, One of the 4 Tradition skills the Caster, Acrobatics for the Striker).
- They all have a weakness of some sort that prevents them from gaining a type of Mythic Resistance or Resilience (more on those later).
- They all gain one or two more specific buffs or abilities that require Mythic Points.
As for your second question: Up to Creature level 23, a party of non-mythics can take on a mythic creature, but it'll be way tougher.
The main way the Mythic Rules make monsters harder isn't by upping the numbers (aside from the skills mentioned) is through Mythic Resistance and/or Resilience. At 1st, 7th and 13th level a Creature chooses between one or the other.
Mythic Resistance is damage resistance against all Strikes made by non-mythic creatures. It can be either half the creature's level, or the full level (if it gets picked twice). It can be bypassed by Mythic Weapons, but nothing else.
Mythic Resilience is applied to 1 of the three saves each time it's picked, and it means the creature treats all saving throws of that type as 1 step better, all the time. This doesn't stack with things like Incapacitation.
As I mentioned though, some Templates can't take one of these options, or they're limited. Brutes can't take Resilience for Will, Ambushers can't take Resistance at all, Casters can't take Resilience in Fortitude and can't take any Resistance, and Strikers can't take Resilience in Fortitude and Can't gain Remove a Condition (more on this later).
At levels 4, 10, 17 and 20 the creature gains powers that require Mythic Points to use. They range from getting +4 to a skill, to removing any 1 condition, to rerolling checks, to not dying and coming back with 50% hp, and finally regaining use of a spell.
As you can see so far none of this really puts them beyond the capabilities of a non-mythic party. Yes, it's going to suck (particularly for Spellcasters and Kineticists, but that's been discussed in a different topic in the Rules Subforum), but it's not insurmountable.
At level 23 however, a Mythic Creature can become completely immune to the effect of either all harmful spells cast by non-mythic creatures or to all Strikes made by non-mythic creatures and weapons (still bypassed by Mythic Weapons).
And the biggest threats presented in the book are all immune to both, though by that level if your characters don't have access to Mythic weapons why are you making them fight mythic monsters... (spellcasters are still hosed though)
The only other guidelines the rules presents are: Don't use Mythic Ambushers or Brutes as Level +3 or +4 encounters (+2 is fine); Don't use Casters alone. And that's about it.
I don't know if I'm misreading the titan's breaker ikon or what, but let's say you have Dragon Stance that gives you a d10 bludogening unarmed attack, then use the ikon's trascendence. If you are 20th level with the new mythic runes, you'll be dealing 8d10+53 [7 (Str) + 40 (Immanence) + 6 (Weapon Specialization)]?
I'm saying this because the trascendence explicitly says it increases the ikon's immanence, though I'm probably inclined to believe the intention is that you instead get a bonus to damage (so you still add 2 additional spirit damage per weapon damage die + 4/6/8).
As PossibleCabbage says, it's actually super unclear on whether an unarmed strike you get through a stance can even be an Ikon. Despite the Ikons allowing "unarmed attack", the rules always talk about Ikons as being items (except for Body Ikons).
As for Titan's Breaker, I think it's supposed to replace the Immanence effect. Your 20th level guy deals 5d10+10 (2 per damage die) normally, and 8d10+8 when you use Trascendence (plus whatever other damage you add like Strength, etc). Making it 8 per die would be absolutely bonkers.
Barrow's Edge - Immanence now grants 1 spirit damage per die normally, but it increases to 3 spirit damage per die if the enemy is below 50% HP. You know if an enemy is below 50% HP if they're within your Barrow's Edge Reach. All else unchanged.
Are all ikons inclusive of unarmed strikes?
Or just a couple?
=)
Of the Weapon Ikons, Gleaming Blade, Hands of the Wildling and Titan's Breaker can be unarmed attacks. Gleaming Blade has to be slashing, Titan's Breaker has to be Bludgeoning and Hands of Wildling can be any type.
