War of Immortals AMA

[graystone]

Gisher wrote:

lats1e wrote:

Old_Man_Robot wrote:

The-Magic-Sword wrote:

Old_Man_Robot wrote:

I saw some people talking about new Fighter feats. Did any other classes get additional feats, outside of class archetypes?

Yes, the Avenger Class Archetype section has a little section stapled onto the end that provides two spear feats for the Rogue Ranger AND Fighter.

Spear Rogue you say, now that could be interesting.

The Level 4 feat is essentially Polearm Mastery. If you're holding a 2-handed spear, hammer, or polearm, you get into a stance that lets you treat the haft of your weapon as if it's a separate weapon, which is a 1d4 simple club weapon, has the agile and finesse traits, and benefits from fundamental runes of the main weapon. Since this counts as you holding a separate weapon, you are treated as if you are dual wielding for the purposes of feats such as Twin Takedown or Double Slice.

The Level 10 feat is basically Impossible Flurry but for 2-handers. While in the Level 4 feat stance, you can spend three actions to do 2 strikes at no MAP, one with your weapon and one with your haft, and then another 2 strikes at max MAP, one with your weapon and one with your haft.

Based on your description, I whipped up some tables showing which weapons would qualify for these feats. It's a Google doc so it's best viewed in an app designed for those.

It occurs to me that the Fighter's Fork would also qualify when in its two-handed form.

One thing to remember is that the haft only has the agile and finesse traits so a base weapon with Reach doesn't confer that to the haft meaning you either lose out on reach or don't make a haft attack.

[Red Griffyn]

Michael Sayre wrote:

Red Griffyn wrote:

So will there be a way to get access to this in PFS or is this just for home games?

The degree to which mythic rules generally do or do not get integrated into PFS will be dependent of the needs of the campaign.

The rules clarifications and updates will be treated just like any other official rules clarifications and updates are generally treated for organized play.

I mean more specifically the exemplar class and archetype. I'm not too concerned/worried about mythic rules being in PFS. Unless you're saying this class is part of 'mythic rules' and to play with an exemplar is synonymous with playing with at least some part of the mythic rules.

I'd love to play it in PFS, I guess, is what I'm saying.

[Evan Tarlton]

Invictus Fatum wrote:

Evan Tarlton wrote:

Can someone give us an overview of the Callings?

You can take a calling as early as lvl 1 if you are playing with Mythic rules and basically they give an extra Edict and Anathema you have to follow. Then, each one time you do crit succeed at something specifically called out by your Calling, you gain a Mythic Point. Additionally, some of the mythic feats below 12th level have prerequisites that you have a certain Calling.

Most of the callings are pretty self explanatory in what their themes are based on their names. Hunter's Calling, for example, is focused on hunting and tracking. Thief's calling is focused on picking locks & stealing. For a full list of Callings, I listed them all out earlier in this thread.

Thanks. I did see the list. Could you elaborate a bit more on the Bookkeeper and the Sage? I'm quite curious about what separates the two.

[Steven T. Helt]

Aenigma wrote:

I have always suspected that Paizo favors daemons over other evil outsiders, or perhaps over all the other outsiders (perhaps because daemons are entirely Paizo's creation?), and now it is proven!

Oh, gosh no, my friend. The daemons are reflections of the old school yugoloths. Theyvwere more ir less ignored among fiend whike the ba'atezu and...you get it...got all the attention.

Paizo gave them the rubrick of each type representing a kind of death, but daemons have been around forever.

Now to be clear, they are absolutely *my* favorite!

[Archpaladin Zousha]

So I heard we have combat fishing poles in this book?!

[Ezekieru]

Evan Tarlton wrote:

Invictus Fatum wrote:

Evan Tarlton wrote:

Can someone give us an overview of the Callings?

You can take a calling as early as lvl 1 if you are playing with Mythic rules and basically they give an extra Edict and Anathema you have to follow. Then, each one time you do crit succeed at something specifically called out by your Calling, you gain a Mythic Point. Additionally, some of the mythic feats below 12th level have prerequisites that you have a certain Calling.

Most of the callings are pretty self explanatory in what their themes are based on their names. Hunter's Calling, for example, is focused on hunting and tracking. Thief's calling is focused on picking locks & stealing. For a full list of Callings, I listed them all out earlier in this thread.

Thanks. I did see the list. Could you elaborate a bit more on the Bookkeeper and the Sage? I'm quite curious about what separates the two.

Bookkeeper's Calling is focused in on preserving and sharing knowledge from books/scrolls/libraries, and you can roll Earn Income and Recall Knowledge checks using a Lore skill with mythic proficiency. Sage's Calling is more about gaining knowledge in general, and so they have the ability to roll any Recall Knowledge check with mythic proficiency. Both by spending a Mythic Point, of course.

Weirdly enough, Bookkeeper's Calling is the only Mythic Calling that doesn't have a feat with them as a prerequisite. The other 10 Callings have at least one (with Sage having a chain of 2, Mythic Counterspell into Steal Magic). Kinda hope they errata in a Bookkeeper prereq with the Sage's Calling ones.

[Veltharis]

Red Griffyn wrote:

Michael Sayre wrote:

Red Griffyn wrote:

So will there be a way to get access to this in PFS or is this just for home games?

The degree to which mythic rules generally do or do not get integrated into PFS will be dependent of the needs of the campaign.

The rules clarifications and updates will be treated just like any other official rules clarifications and updates are generally treated for organized play.

I mean more specifically the exemplar class and archetype. I'm not too concerned/worried about mythic rules being in PFS. Unless you're saying this class is part of 'mythic rules' and to play with an exemplar is synonymous with playing with at least some part of the mythic rules.

I'd love to play it in PFS, I guess, is what I'm saying.

There are a number of character options that PFS specifically grants players access to that would otherwise be locked away behind a boon (that may or may not exist) due to their rarity - a number of ancestries (poppet, kobold, etc.) and versatile heritages (nephilim, changeling, etc.), the gunslinger and inventor classes, and so on.

No official word on whether the exemplar is going to be added to that list as of yet, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I suspect we'll get an answer fairly soon, possibly by the book's official release day.

[Ryuujin-sama]

So for someone who has the book are there any feats in Exemplar that specifically call out working with an Unarmed Ikon?

I was watching a video and commented on how it would be cool if a Kholo could use Barrow's Edge on their teeth and it was brought up that that Ikon doesn't mention an unarmed weapon. And that got me thinking that I don't remember any of the feats that were shown as having text about unarmed weapons. So would an Unarmed Ikon work for anything that asks for a melee weapon, possibly dealing a specific type of damage, or would it not work unless the feat specifically calls out working with an unarmed ikon.

[TheTownsend]

I've seen on previews there is an Ikon for free-hand weapons or melee unarmed strikes, it only deals one spirit damage instead of two but it's Splash damage (you're immune to it) so a good crowdbreaker.
When I saw it I also had the thought about using it on a bite attack! The Transcendence effect is that it affects everyone in a 15-foot cone, the idea being it's mad flurry of spiritual punches, but on a bite attack I guess that would be like, your muzzle spectrally expanding to chomp everyone in the room at once? Which is wicked!

[graystone]

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

So I heard we have combat fishing poles in this book?!

Yes, it's an Uncommon Martial Weapons in the Flail group and it it adds its item bonus from weapon potency runes (if any) as an item bonus on fishing checks.

[Mangaholic13]

graystone wrote:

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

So I heard we have combat fishing poles in this book?!

Yes, it's an Uncommon Martial Weapons in the Flail group and it it adds its item bonus from weapon potency runes (if any) as an item bonus on fishing checks.

Early Gon Freeces build, hear I come!

[SpireSwagon]

Veltharis wrote:

Red Griffyn wrote:

Michael Sayre wrote:

Red Griffyn wrote:

So will there be a way to get access to this in PFS or is this just for home games?

The degree to which mythic rules generally do or do not get integrated into PFS will be dependent of the needs of the campaign.

The rules clarifications and updates will be treated just like any other official rules clarifications and updates are generally treated for organized play.

I mean more specifically the exemplar class and archetype. I'm not too concerned/worried about mythic rules being in PFS. Unless you're saying this class is part of 'mythic rules' and to play with an exemplar is synonymous with playing with at least some part of the mythic rules.

I'd love to play it in PFS, I guess, is what I'm saying.

There are a number of character options that PFS specifically grants players access to that would otherwise be locked away behind a boon (that may or may not exist) due to their rarity - a number of ancestries (poppet, kobold, etc.) and versatile heritages (nephilim, changeling, etc.), the gunslinger and inventor classes, and so on.

No official word on whether the exemplar is going to be added to that list as of yet, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I suspect we'll get an answer fairly soon, possibly by the book's official release day.

I suspect that we'll end up with a system like playing a skeleton or other rare ancestry, requiring points and possibly even being a one per account sort of thing

[PossibleCabbage]

I suspect people seeking to optimize will be more after the Exemplar multiclass than the class itself. Since the dedication feat gives you a full power ikon, there are a lot of ways to leverage this in a different class. It's annoying to transcend since you only have one ikon, but some of the immanence effects are great.

Like the throwing weapon ikon is something every single throwing build is going to want, since just its immanence effect mean you'll never need a magic item or rune to handle the "once I throw it I don't have it anymore" problem, plus you get bonus damage.

[graystone]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I suspect people seeking to optimize will be more after the Exemplar multiclass than the class itself. Since the dedication feat gives you a full power ikon, there are a lot of ways to leverage this in a different class.

Like the throwing weapon ikon is something every single throwing build is going to want, since just its immanence effect mean you'll never need a magic item or rune to handle the "once I throw it I don't have it anymore" problem, plus you get bonus damage.

The Horn of Plenty is pretty great for Alchemists or those that can make non-bomb Alchemical Items/Potions. It makes 1-3 elixir/potion per day and you can drop up to 10 of your consumables [like from Advanced Alchemy] into it, then you can draw/drink them out of it in 1 action and if you use transcendence and an extra action, you can give its benefits to someone else within 60'!

[Squiggit]

The exemplar giving you a full ikon with no caveats isn't doing the "rarity isn't supposed to be power" concept any favors, which unfortunately I think might backsplash onto the class itself and some of the other options.

[Xenocrat]

Yeah the exemplar MC weapon ikons with 2 damage per weapon dice destroy the thaumaturge and barbarian MC damage boost competition even if the transcendence options didn’t exist.

[Arachnofiend]

Thaumaturge archetype has to spend another feat to get the ability associated with its implement so it compares pretty unfavorably. Exemplar archetype is probably fine if you don't give the damage bonus?

[PossibleCabbage]

But, I mean, what would the Exemplar multiclass give you if not an ikon?

I'd rather have a MC archetype that's really good than another fighter or swashbuckler archetype situation.

[Unicore]

This is the book of breaking balance, but only kind of, and almost all of it (the slightly broken stuff) is rarity tagged. I probably won’t allow MC’d exemplars in the vast majority of my games for narrative reasons anyway. It feel too much like an all or nothing class to me in the first place. I would not be surprised if PFS restricts both the class and the multi class for a while

[Evan Tarlton]

Ezekieru wrote:

Evan Tarlton wrote:

Invictus Fatum wrote:

Evan Tarlton wrote:

Can someone give us an overview of the Callings?

You can take a calling as early as lvl 1 if you are playing with Mythic rules and basically they give an extra Edict and Anathema you have to follow. Then, each one time you do crit succeed at something specifically called out by your Calling, you gain a Mythic Point. Additionally, some of the mythic feats below 12th level have prerequisites that you have a certain Calling.

Most of the callings are pretty self explanatory in what their themes are based on their names. Hunter's Calling, for example, is focused on hunting and tracking. Thief's calling is focused on picking locks & stealing. For a full list of Callings, I listed them all out earlier in this thread.

Thanks. I did see the list. Could you elaborate a bit more on the Bookkeeper and the Sage? I'm quite curious about what separates the two.

Bookkeeper's Calling is focused in on preserving and sharing knowledge from books/scrolls/libraries, and you can roll Earn Income and Recall Knowledge checks using a Lore skill with mythic proficiency. Sage's Calling is more about gaining knowledge in general, and so they have the ability to roll any Recall Knowledge check with mythic proficiency. Both by spending a Mythic Point, of course.

Weirdly enough, Bookkeeper's Calling is the only Mythic Calling that doesn't have a feat with them as a prerequisite. The other 10 Callings have at least one (with Sage having a chain of 2, Mythic Counterspell into Steal Magic). Kinda hope they errata in a Bookkeeper prereq with the Sage's Calling ones.

Thank you very much!

[Archpaladin Zousha]

graystone wrote:

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

So I heard we have combat fishing poles in this book?!

Yes, it's an Uncommon Martial Weapons in the Flail group and it it adds its item bonus from weapon potency runes (if any) as an item bonus on fishing checks.

Perfect for catching your mythic archnemesis (use a cow head for the bait)!

[Red Griffyn]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I suspect people seeking to optimize will be more after the Exemplar multiclass than the class itself. Since the dedication feat gives you a full power ikon, there are a lot of ways to leverage this in a different class. It's annoying to transcend since you only have one ikon, but some of the immanence effects are great.

Like the throwing weapon ikon is something every single throwing build is going to want, since just its immanence effect mean you'll never need a magic item or rune to handle the "once I throw it I don't have it anymore" problem, plus you get bonus damage.

Its not like I wrote and entire reddit love letter post to this specific ikon. I'd want it even if they took away the bonus damage. Hell if they just made the thrower's bandolier work like this I'd be so happy. I'm inclined to basically homebrew a bandolier equivalent with no damage boost for throwing builds to use so they aren't stuck multiclassing into this. Such an elegant solution, its unfortunate its class locked.

[Calliope5431]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

But, I mean, what would the Exemplar multiclass give you if not an ikon?

I'd rather have a MC archetype that's really good than another fighter or swashbuckler archetype situation.

To be entirely blunt, I'm guessing that the archetype was written with the skill boosting ikons in mind. It's unfortunately a common problem when writing options that let PCs poach from a list that writers only consider some of the abilities on that list. It was probably not balanced with the damage boost in mind at all - let alone comparisons to other archetypes that boost damage.

Personally I would cite rarity as a reason not to allow it - since much like the witch's Lesson of the Frozen Queen it's an extremely blatant example of "rarity = power"

[Dubious Scholar]

Lesson of the Frozen Queen doesn't really strike me as excessively powerful in any way though. Strong, certainly, but focus spells just have wildly inconsistent power to begin with.

[Calliope5431]

Dubious Scholar wrote:

Lesson of the Frozen Queen doesn't really strike me as excessively powerful in any way though. Strong, certainly, but focus spells just have wildly inconsistent power to begin with.

It's basically focus spell flesh to stone. Which also deals the same damage as fire ray (another focus spell, and one that is widely regarded as fairly decent) but save half and a stronger damage type.

It's easily one of the strongest focus spells in the game. It's just high level, comes from an obscure sourcebook, and locked behind Rare rarity (and a feat) so it doesn't see that much play.

[Arachnofiend]

Blaming the rarity for the archetype being overtuned seems a bit silly since by all accounts the Exemplar itself is fine.

[Calliope5431]

Arachnofiend wrote:

Blaming the rarity for the archetype being overtuned seems a bit silly since by all accounts the Exemplar itself is fine.

I totally agree. For me, it's more about having an easy excuse to say "no" to something overpowered than inherently banning Rare things. For instance, the Godling mythic destiny seems totally fine

[SpireSwagon]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

But, I mean, what would the Exemplar multiclass give you if not an ikon?

I'd rather have a MC archetype that's really good than another fighter or swashbuckler archetype situation.

Considering I had someone on the subreddit actually quote fighter archetype as if it's what multi-class archetypes are supposed to aspire to... yeah.

I would *much* rather live in a world where the book gives cool options that are a little overtuned than absolutely nothing worth using lol

[shroudb]

SpireSwagon wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

But, I mean, what would the Exemplar multiclass give you if not an ikon?

I'd rather have a MC archetype that's really good than another fighter or swashbuckler archetype situation.

Considering I had someone on the subreddit actually quote fighter archetype as if it's what multi-class archetypes are supposed to aspire to... yeah.

I would *much* rather live in a world where the book gives cool options that are a little overtuned than absolutely nothing worth using lol

"Little" overtuned is the understatement of the year.

Leaving asdie the free damage, have you seen the passive effects you can get from that single level 2 feat?

Eternal Blassing is a level 16 cleric feat and you get an Eternal Blessing that allows for infinite rerolls for the whole party for every single duration effect in the game.

An insanely powercreeped quick draw.

Making the archetype mandatory for Alchemists with cornucopia.

A passive immobilize aura for champions

And etc.

There's nothing "little" about that archetype.

The class as a whole is fine, but the Archetype needs to have the Immanences removed and only leave the activatable parts of the Icons on it at the very minimum.

[Mammoth Daddy]

Lawrencelot wrote:

Lawrencelot wrote:

Any more lore on the Godsrain that we didn't know about? Effects of Gorum's death, other dieties who died?

Anyone? I saw someone replied to my comment about orc gods, but from another source. I also heard rumours elsewhere of Osirian and hag gods dying. What is in this specific book? I want to know which gods die besides Gorum.

I too would like to know cuz Damn! Looks like a cleric character concept of mine might be soon be godless!

[shroudb]

Mammoth Daddy wrote:

Lawrencelot wrote:

Lawrencelot wrote:

Any more lore on the Godsrain that we didn't know about? Effects of Gorum's death, other dieties who died?

Anyone? I saw someone replied to my comment about orc gods, but from another source. I also heard rumours elsewhere of Osirian and hag gods dying. What is in this specific book? I want to know which gods die besides Gorum.

I too would like to know cuz Damn! Looks like a cleric character concept of mine might be soon be godless!

Osirian and Hags zoinked away.

[Calliope5431]

shroudb wrote:

SpireSwagon wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

But, I mean, what would the Exemplar multiclass give you if not an ikon?

I'd rather have a MC archetype that's really good than another fighter or swashbuckler archetype situation.

Considering I had someone on the subreddit actually quote fighter archetype as if it's what multi-class archetypes are supposed to aspire to... yeah.

I would *much* rather live in a world where the book gives cool options that are a little overtuned than absolutely nothing worth using lol

"Little" overtuned is the understatement of the year.

Leaving asdie the free damage, have you seen the passive effects you can get from that single level 2 feat?

Eternal Blassing is a level 16 cleric feat and you get an Eternal Blessing that allows for infinite rerolls for the whole party for every single duration effect in the game.

An insanely powercreeped quick draw.

Making the archetype mandatory for Alchemists with cornucopia.

A passive immobilize aura for champions

And etc.

There's nothing "little" about that archetype.

The class as a whole is fine, but the Archetype needs to have the Immanences removed and only leave the activatable parts of the Icons on it at the very minimum.

Yeah the problem is that it's all rolled into the dedication feat. It's basically the equivalent of psychic archetype giving the unique psi cantrip and the ability to amp it at the cost of a dedication feat. Which psychic archetype instead splits up and only makes available at level 6.

Like seriously that's the closest comparison here. And psychic is, even with those benefits spread over several feats, still rightly seen as one of the strongest archetypes in the game.

And when something you publish blows the strongest existing multiclass option out of the water, that's power creep.

[PossibleCabbage]

Calliope5431 wrote:

To be entirely blunt, I'm guessing that the archetype was written with the skill boosting ikons in mind.

I don't know how that's possible since like "you're a regular person who ends up with the awesome sword of destiny" seems like a really basic fantasy in this sort of game, and a good way to represent that is "be a non-exemplar class with the exemplar archetype for some ikon in your amazing sword."

Like that seems like the intended use of the archetype- to play a character who is not personally a fated hero of destiny, they just happen to have the *thing* that fits that description.

As a GM it seems easier to fit "your sword has a destiny, you are invited along" into a story than "your bangles/eye/horn/etc. has a destiny." This also makes it pretty easy to say "no" since you can just judge it by "is this story actually about an ordained weapon achieving its destiny?" then eventually run the "is this an archetype people are taking over and over again" analysis.

[Ryuujin-sama]

TheTownsend wrote:

I've seen on previews there is an Ikon for free-hand weapons or melee unarmed strikes, it only deals one spirit damage instead of two but it's Splash damage (you're immune to it) so a good crowdbreaker.

When I saw it I also had the thought about using it on a bite attack! The Transcendence effect is that it affects everyone in a 15-foot cone, the idea being it's mad flurry of spiritual punches, but on a bite attack I guess that would be like, your muzzle spectrally expanding to chomp everyone in the room at once? Which is wicked!

So from what I understand there are 3 Ikons which mention unarmed. The splash unarmed specific one, Gleaming Blade which mentions slashing, and possibly piercing?, unarmed weapons as an option, and Titan Breaker which mentions bludgeoning unarmed weapons as an option.

The thing is most of the other Ikons don't mention unarmed, but might say something like slashing or piercing weapons. The question is can you choose an unarmed attack that does that type of damage for the Ikon.

And the followup is if you can't say pick Barrow's Edge for a piercing bite attack then would a feats you can select as you level that require certain ikon types work with ANY unarmed attacks at all if they don't specifically call out unarmed. In the images I have seen none of the feats specify unarmed attacks as an option.

So I worry that we got a few unarmed options but then we might not actually be able to use them well.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

shroudb wrote:

Mammoth Daddy wrote:

Lawrencelot wrote:

Lawrencelot wrote:

Any more lore on the Godsrain that we didn't know about? Effects of Gorum's death, other dieties who died?

Anyone? I saw someone replied to my comment about orc gods, but from another source. I also heard rumours elsewhere of Osirian and hag gods dying. What is in this specific book? I want to know which gods die besides Gorum.

I too would like to know cuz Damn! Looks like a cleric character concept of mine might be soon be godless!

Osirian and Hags zoinked away.

Clarification SPOILERS!:

Yeah, according to the dream visions of some of their priests and a few non-religious sages they're not DEAD, they just wound up someplace else that's very similar to Golarion and can't grant spells to their followers anymore.

[shroudb]

Ryuujin-sama wrote:

TheTownsend wrote:

I've seen on previews there is an Ikon for free-hand weapons or melee unarmed strikes, it only deals one spirit damage instead of two but it's Splash damage (you're immune to it) so a good crowdbreaker.

When I saw it I also had the thought about using it on a bite attack! The Transcendence effect is that it affects everyone in a 15-foot cone, the idea being it's mad flurry of spiritual punches, but on a bite attack I guess that would be like, your muzzle spectrally expanding to chomp everyone in the room at once? Which is wicked!

So from what I understand there are 3 Ikons which mention unarmed. The splash unarmed specific one, Gleaming Blade which mentions slashing, and possibly piercing?, unarmed weapons as an option, and Titan Breaker which mentions bludgeoning unarmed weapons as an option.

The thing is most of the other Ikons don't mention unarmed, but might say something like slashing or piercing weapons. The question is can you choose an unarmed attack that does that type of damage for the Ikon.

And the followup is if you can't say pick Barrow's Edge for a piercing bite attack then would a feats you can select as you level that require certain ikon types work with ANY unarmed attacks at all if they don't specifically call out unarmed. In the images I have seen none of the feats specify unarmed attacks as an option.

So I worry that we got a few unarmed options but then we might not actually be able to use them well.

So, for the Ikons only mentioning Weapons, Unarmed are not Weapons.

For the feats, you apply them to a single Ikon (each).

So, if you pick a feat that has the Ikon tag and affects a Weapon Ikon, you need to choose one of your preexisting Weapon Ikons and only that one gets the benefit (until level 20 where there's a feat to change that).

So, to put it simply:
If you pick up an Ikon that works with Unarmed, and you pick up a feat for said Ikon, then the effects of the feat will work with said Unarmed attack.
If you pick up on Ikon that doesn't work with Unarmed, and you pick up a feat for said Ikon, then the effects of the feat will NOT work for Unarmed.

[PossibleCabbage]

I think the acid test for "should this character take the exemplar archetype" should be essentially "is this just a mechanical edge, or does your ikon actually factor meaningfully into your character's story or basic premise." Like if you wanted to do a riff on Elric, being a Magus with the Exemplar archetype for Barrow's Edge seems to work better than just being an Exemplar (Elric is good at magic).

It's similar to "are you taking the cleric archetype just for the focus spell, or are you actually going to be committed to this deity and their thing" but things that are Rare are things you cannot take without GM permission anyway.

[Mammoth Daddy]

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

shroudb wrote:

Mammoth Daddy wrote:

Lawrencelot wrote:

Lawrencelot wrote:

Any more lore on the Godsrain that we didn't know about? Effects of Gorum's death, other dieties who died?

Anyone? I saw someone replied to my comment about orc gods, but from another source. I also heard rumours elsewhere of Osirian and hag gods dying. What is in this specific book? I want to know which gods die besides Gorum.

I too would like to know cuz Damn! Looks like a cleric character concept of mine might be soon be godless!

Osirian and Hags zoinked away.

** spoiler omitted **

Okaay…but how?? What happened?!?? All I heard is

Spoiler:

Thoth dying in a duel with Nethys; resulting in a magical “whirlpool” in the Inner Sea; Hag gods exploiting this whirlpool for nefarious ends; all culminating in a battle between Hag gods and Ancient Osirion Gods with both disappearing…somewhere

That’s some major kitchen sink right there!! There’s nothing even remotely connecting the Osirion Pantheon to the Hag pantheon. TBH it seems mostly informed byreal life wishes of the company than something organic to the setting— which is okay —just needs greater explanation and massaging of the differences in trope.

[shroudb]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I think the acid test for "should this character take the exemplar archetype" should be essentially "is this just a mechanical edge, or does your ikon actually factor meaningfully into your character's story or basic premise." Like if you wanted to do a riff on Elric, being a Magus with the Exemplar archetype for Barrow's Edge seems to work better than just being an Exemplar (Elric is good at magic).

It's similar to "are you taking the cleric archetype just for the focus spell, or are you actually going to be committed to this deity and their thing" but things that are Rare are things you cannot take without GM permission anyway.

Flavor isn't impacted if they bring down the Archetype to a reasonable level of power.

Like I said earlier, you can keep the activatable effects and remove the immanence, and character flavor isn't impacted.

Straight up, as the Archetype stands now, it is so strong that any character, mechanically, benefits more picking it up instead of any other level 2 feat printed.

That's straight up bad for the game. If you allow Exemplar Archetype in your table you are basically making it a "mandatory pick" the way Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization was in PF1. A thing that PF2 wanted to get rid off.

[Mammoth Daddy]

Mammoth Daddy wrote:

Okaay…but how?? What happened?!?? All I heard is
** spoiler omitted **

That’s some major kitchen sink right there!! There’s nothing even remotely connecting the Osirion Pantheon to the Hag pantheon. TBH it seems mostly informed byreal life wishes of the company than something organic to the setting— which is okay —just needs greater explanation and massaging of the differences in trope.

This needs an AP, stand-alone adventure, pathfinder scenario or SOMETHING!! :0

[Calliope5431]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I think the acid test for "should this character take the exemplar archetype" should be essentially "is this just a mechanical edge, or does your ikon actually factor meaningfully into your character's story or basic premise." Like if you wanted to do a riff on Elric, being a Magus with the Exemplar archetype for Barrow's Edge seems to work better than just being an Exemplar (Elric is good at magic).

It's similar to "are you taking the cleric archetype just for the focus spell, or are you actually going to be committed to this deity and their thing" but things that are Rare are things you cannot take without GM permission anyway.

The entire point of the edition is that it is balanced enough that the logic you lay out is viable. Namely, the options are balanced enough against one another (not perfectly balanced, but balanced enough) that you can select feats because they fit the story rather than because they're autopicks and you're literally crippling your character by passing them up.

That's exactly why this feat and power creep more generally is a problem - because by imploding that balance, you wind up presenting players with a series of grotesque trade offs: will they select the feat that best fits the story, or the one that allows their character to actually survive it? Feat taxes like this are walking perverse incentives that OOC encourage players to straightjacket their characters into a single optimal build.

[Mangaholic13]

So, I have a question:
What kind of Mythic Feats are we looking at?

Also, those discussing the Exemplar Archetype and whether or not it breaks the game, could you guys please take that discussion to a different thread? Because I feel like that issue is starting to derail the thread.

[PossibleCabbage]

I made a thread about the Exemplar archetype, so we can continue the conversation here

[Perpdepog]

Mangaholic13 wrote:

So, I have a question:

What kind of Mythic Feats are we looking at?

Also, those discussing the Exemplar Archetype and whether or not it breaks the game, could you guys please take that discussion to a different thread? Because I feel like that issue is starting to derail the thread.

To build on this question, are there any especially flavorful mythic destiny feats that jumped out at you?

Also, related question, do the destinies that have support for animal companions grant you an animal companion themselves, or do you need one going in?

[shroudb]

Perpdepog wrote:

Mangaholic13 wrote:

So, I have a question:

What kind of Mythic Feats are we looking at?

Also, those discussing the Exemplar Archetype and whether or not it breaks the game, could you guys please take that discussion to a different thread? Because I feel like that issue is starting to derail the thread.

To build on this question, are there any especially flavorful mythic destiny feats that jumped out at you?

Also, related question, do the destinies that have support for animal companions grant you an animal companion themselves, or do you need one going in?

a)Terrifying Mien while simple did invoke a very badass feeling reading it.

Basically whenever someone is scared, you gain resistance against them, and if this resistance procs, they cannot remove the frightned.
To me that's like scared people hitting the demigod, seeing that their damage is getting negated, and going "yup, we f-up"

b)apocalypse rider gives you the mount, but beast lord requires you to have the beast already.

[Perpdepog]

shroudb wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

Mangaholic13 wrote:

So, I have a question:

What kind of Mythic Feats are we looking at?

Also, those discussing the Exemplar Archetype and whether or not it breaks the game, could you guys please take that discussion to a different thread? Because I feel like that issue is starting to derail the thread.

To build on this question, are there any especially flavorful mythic destiny feats that jumped out at you?

Also, related question, do the destinies that have support for animal companions grant you an animal companion themselves, or do you need one going in?

a)Terrifying Mien while simple did invoke a very badass feeling reading it.

Basically whenever someone is scared, you gain resistance against them, and if this resistance procs, they cannot remove the frightned.
To me that's like scared people hitting the demigod, seeing that their damage is getting negated, and going "yup, we f-up"

b)apocalypse rider gives you the mount, but beast lord requires you to have the beast already.

How does Apocalypse Rider handle the expectation that your mount should be an incredible companion by that point?

[Calliope5431]

Perpdepog wrote:

shroudb wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

Mangaholic13 wrote:

So, I have a question:

What kind of Mythic Feats are we looking at?

Also, those discussing the Exemplar Archetype and whether or not it breaks the game, could you guys please take that discussion to a different thread? Because I feel like that issue is starting to derail the thread.

To build on this question, are there any especially flavorful mythic destiny feats that jumped out at you?

Also, related question, do the destinies that have support for animal companions grant you an animal companion themselves, or do you need one going in?

a)Terrifying Mien while simple did invoke a very badass feeling reading it.

Basically whenever someone is scared, you gain resistance against them, and if this resistance procs, they cannot remove the frightned.
To me that's like scared people hitting the demigod, seeing that their damage is getting negated, and going "yup, we f-up"

b)apocalypse rider gives you the mount, but beast lord requires you to have the beast already.

How does Apocalypse Rider handle the expectation that your mount should be an incredible companion by that point?

Poorly. It only gives you a mature one. Not incredible.

[TheFinish]

Calliope5431 wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

shroudb wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

Mangaholic13 wrote:

So, I have a question:

What kind of Mythic Feats are we looking at?

Also, those discussing the Exemplar Archetype and whether or not it breaks the game, could you guys please take that discussion to a different thread? Because I feel like that issue is starting to derail the thread.

To build on this question, are there any especially flavorful mythic destiny feats that jumped out at you?

Also, related question, do the destinies that have support for animal companions grant you an animal companion themselves, or do you need one going in?

a)Terrifying Mien while simple did invoke a very badass feeling reading it.

Basically whenever someone is scared, you gain resistance against them, and if this resistance procs, they cannot remove the frightned.
To me that's like scared people hitting the demigod, seeing that their damage is getting negated, and going "yup, we f-up"

b)apocalypse rider gives you the mount, but beast lord requires you to have the beast already.

How does Apocalypse Rider handle the expectation that your mount should be an incredible companion by that point?

Poorly. It only gives you a mature one. Not incredible.

It does, it's just poorly worded. You gain a Mature Animal Companion and you get to choose either savage or nimble (which is what Incredible Companion does).

EDIT: In fact, this is one of those where going in with an actual AC is actually a detriment. If you take the dedication with nothing, you get the equivalent of three feats (AC, Mature and Incredible). If you already have an AC mount, all it gets is +1 die type on one attack. It isn't even brought up to par if (for some reason) it's not an Incredible companion by then.

[Calliope5431]

TheFinish wrote:

Calliope5431 wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

shroudb wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

Mangaholic13 wrote:

So, I have a question:

What kind of Mythic Feats are we looking at?

Also, those discussing the Exemplar Archetype and whether or not it breaks the game, could you guys please take that discussion to a different thread? Because I feel like that issue is starting to derail the thread.

To build on this question, are there any especially flavorful mythic destiny feats that jumped out at you?

Also, related question, do the destinies that have support for animal companions grant you an animal companion themselves, or do you need one going in?

a)Terrifying Mien while simple did invoke a very badass feeling reading it.

Basically whenever someone is scared, you gain resistance against them, and if this resistance procs, they cannot remove the frightned.
To me that's like scared people hitting the demigod, seeing that their damage is getting negated, and going "yup, we f-up"

b)apocalypse rider gives you the mount, but beast lord requires you to have the beast already.

How does Apocalypse Rider handle the expectation that your mount should be an incredible companion by that point?

Poorly. It only gives you a mature one. Not incredible.

It does, it's just poorly worded. You gain a Mature Animal Companion and you get to choose either savage or nimble (which is what Incredible Companion does).

EDIT: In fact, this is one of those where going in with an actual AC is actually a detriment. If you take the dedication with nothing, you get the equivalent of three feats (AC, Mature and Incredible). If you already have an AC mount, all it gets is +1 die type on one attack. It isn't even brought up to par if (for some reason) it's not an Incredible companion by then.

Ugggggh. You're right, that's really poorly written. How weird. I guess they just didn't want to give the feat for whatever reason. But that's good.

[Mangaholic13]

Also, are there any new spells of regular play? Or is it all Mythic Spells?