The Plagued One

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Well that depends on if you are currently in the element of your elemental weapon or not.

Unless you have taken Elemental Weapon multiple times so that you have a weapon you can switch to at all times.

I do kind of wish that Cycling Blast when combined with Elemental Weapon would let you strike with the Elemental Weapon instead of using Elemental Blast as part of that action. Then you could take Elemental Weapon twice for two separate elemental guns and just cycle blast between the two to avoid reloading, so long as you are from a region that grants access to guns of course.


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Unicore wrote:

In the level 6 playtest I ran, the party found Melee blasts to be very effective against most of the creatures they fought. The two Kineticists each were STR focused, and so, when they got swarmed by creatures, they often did their best damage, and were well set up to use their overflow impulses.

That would be a terrible tactic if surrounded by creatures with AoOs, but I don't think you need to worry about always being in that situation. In that situation, an elemental weapon would probably be pretty effective to use, but you would want to step away to make it.

Why? If you can step aside to make the Elemental Weapon, why don't you step aside to make a ranged Elemental Blast? If you can't step aside to make your ranged Elemental Blast then you can't step aside to form an Elemental Weapon.


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As far as I understand it a Kineticist can only hurt/effect a golem if it has a specific clause saying it takes extra damage from Fire if a Fire Kineticist, or a specific clause that it takes extra damage from Bludgeoning if one of the other Elements, or Slashing for Air. Though Air and Water might be able to do a little something if the Golem has a clause about taking extra damage from Cold or Electricity.

I think the only thing that can harm a Golem that a Kineticist can do is if they can do the damage type listed in the Golem Antimagic feature.

Maybe an Elemental Weapon can do it, depends on what traits the weapon actually has and if it counts a magical ability.

Also even if the Golem had the Elemental Trait matching the Kineticist's Element I am not sure Extract Element would even work because of the Golem's Magic Immunity.


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So reading a Reddit thread gave me an idea. But I am not entirely sure how some of these feats would interact. And since this idea focuses on Elemental Weapon this thread seemed like a good place to put it.

So I saw someone talking about using Cycling Blast to regather element and create a new Elemental Weapon gun that is already loaded, thus getting around needing to spend actions to reload.

This would of course require Dual Element, or Universal Gate, and having taken Elemental Weapon at least twice for elemental guns.

I am not sure if you could use the gun's strike in place of the Cycling Blasts's elemental blast. My assumption is not so you would have to shoot, cycling blast to switch elements and then use third action to shoot again. Dealing with normal MAP of course. If on the other hand you can use the Elemental Blast from Cycling Blast as a ranged gun strike that is much better and as far as I can tell you can use Cycling Blast basically every action.

Another idea, requiring even more class feats, is also grabbing Flexible Blasts in the hope that you can somehow do Str based Ranged Elemental Weapon attacks. This is another one where I assume not, but it would be a cool idea to use a Str based gun shot.

Of course all this would use up a lot of class feats which means not much in the way of Impulse feats.


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Yeah at 1st level it seems like Dedicated and Dual are the leaders, with Universalist hurting. The higher you get the more Universalist pulls ahead with Dual kind of staying in the middle at all times, and also the higher you get the more Dedicated falls behind. Universalist best benefits from the 9th and 15th level feats that can be changed each day, and of course the level 12 feat to change a feat out in a 10 minute period or the level 20 feat to change an Impulse as an action which is outright amazing for a Universalist.

While I do like the three feats at 1st level for Dedicated, it quicky falls behind and it would be nice if Dedicated could get more higher level Impulse feats to continue the focus on a single element idea.

Dual could possibly use a few extra feats as they level as well, but I feel like that is less important. What would be nice is if they could have both of their elements gathered at the same time, or combine then into a single hybrid element as some have talked about in other threads.

Universalist does feel like it might need more feats early on. The longer you go the more you can spread out. Don't want it to step on the toes of the Dedicated or Dual, but until they get some more feats under their belt, or hit the 10 minute switch out at 12th or 1 action switch out at 20th, they might feel really limited. Of course when they can switch their Impulses out on a whim they also would tend to overshadow the other two gates.


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Do any of those other things say they are your Gathered Element transformed into it and goes away if you lose your Gathered Element? I do not believe so.


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The rules seem pretty clear that they are mutually exclusive as they both turn your Gathered Element into either a Weapon or Shield and go away if you lose your Gathered Element for some reason.

Then again maybe that isn't what they meant and the wording is poor or they didn't think about this interaction.

After all my interpretation of Stoke Element is different from a lot of people here, which means the more common interpretation makes Stoke Element better than I viewed it, though still of questionable worth.


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Air reaction reposition? Push?
Earth reaction turn the ground beneath them into quicksand or just pull them part way into the earth. Stuck/immobilized needing to spend an action to be able to move, and possibly a check as well.
Fire reaction Massive Damage for daring to attack me!
Water reaction uh push or reposition? Inflict slow on someone who attacks you or otherwise cost them actions? Maybe a reaction to cause them to start drowning?


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That is kind of how the Legendary Kineticist did it. Though their Blast was more of a Con based Cantrip that scaled by 1d6 every other level, for most elements though the more variable earth used d4s and there was a feat for Blue Fire that used d8s.

It was a single action Cantrip with Flourish so you couldn't spam it a bunch in one round, and then they gained Infusions that cost an action to alter the blast, though in that version the blasts were also Focus point using abilities and would require spending either yet another action to Gather Power to avoid the Focus Point cost or use a Free Action to Burn and take Stunned +2 to avoid the Focus Point cost, so again an action cost.

Now I am not really for the whole Focus Point thing, but I do like the idea of using extra actions to alter a blast. Though I would prefer more of a cantrip damage blast for that than a strike damage blast. Though a strike with enough runes could add up some damage.

Some people talk about the Legendary Kineticist being overtuned or too powerful but I don't see it since they can go all out to do 10d6 in an area, something the current version can do as well with the highest level abilities.


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Someone in one of these threads, don't remember who or which thread sadly, had the multi charge idea as well. With Gather Power gathering charges of element equal to Con mod, and then Overflow Impulses would list how many charges they used, or buffs they get based off the number of charges expended when using them.

If we needed a resource that sounds like a reasonable take. Though admittedly I also like the idea floated in another thread about variable action costs for Impulses, possibly in place of Overflow.


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Yeah Fire's damage is horrendous, but it does have options for increasing allies' damage, and their own.

Furnace Form and Ignite the Sun can eventually give themselves +2d6 fire damage on their blasts, for a Sustain and two rounds worth of buffing up. Kindle Inner Flames would be some more buffing, for another round of setup, but sadly doesn't add the +1d6 fire damage to more than one strike each.

That said even if Kindle Inner Flames did provide +1d6 fire damage to every strike three rounds of buffing and not really striking much if at all is a bit much. That said it might be worth it for a Dedicated Gate if Stoke Element provided a Status bonus to the +1d6 fire damage each of these provided and lasted for the full duration of the buff so the +1d6 fire becomes +1d6+5(+10 for Ignite the Sun) and thus combining each with a Stoke Element on the round before, though that would then mean at least 4 rounds, allowing a Dedicated Fire Gate to provide allies with +2d6+15 fire and themselves +3d6+20 fire for the combat, whatever may possibly be left after 4 rounds of buffing.


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But isn't the cost of the Overflow that you lose your Gathered Element? So how would the Dual Gate switching element work with that?


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Variable Action Impulses seems like it could be a good idea. Also if we had Variable Action Impulses we could probably get rid of Overflow. Anything balanced around Overflow could just have the Overflow equivalent level of Damage/Control available at a certain action threshold.

Though it would mean we probably wouldn't want a high level class feature to Gather as a free action, and instead have it give a free action each round to spend on one of the actions for a Variable Action Impulse.


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Auras aren't sustain, but they are limited to one active at a time.

I do like the idea of a Dual Gate being able activate two auras, one from each of their elements. But I would also like Dedicated Gate to be able to have more than one aura active as well. Of course I am hoping the final version will have more than two auras per element.


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Funnily enough I have seen people deride Winter's Clutch as weak damage. I feel like it is a nice level, better than Desert Shimmer, and more consistent than Crowned in Thunder's Tempest. Though I would not be against some more damage on some of the auras.

Also Con to damage on all damaging Impulses, including Auras.


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Just rip open your gate wide as you use an Aura so that winds rips from you to help yourself and your allies while hindering your enemies, winter's chill pouring out of you in the area of your aura to damage your enemies and hinder them by the sudden snow fall that appears not out of thin air so much as out of your wide open gate, your Earth gate fills the ground around you with earth and sand or stone erupting out of your gate and shifting ever so slightly as needed to provide difficult terrain for your enemies while not hindering your allies and through this new coating of earth and sand you can sense the location of invisible enemies, your Fire Gate releases the heat from the heart of a terrible desert causing the air to shimmer in the heat and dealing damage to your foes.

But yeah I feel like the Auras should have more of a connection to the gate thematically, and maybe mechanically. In some cases the effect might seem to actually come from your body but in many it could be that a copy of your open gates appears beneath, or above as needed, you.

Fair Winds could be the winds coming from your body, or it could be a copy of your gate opening up above you, or perhaps below you but not replacing the ground with air, or maybe even a combination of above and below with the winds raging from both ends.

Crowned in Tempest's Fury already mentions taking a storm and turning it into a crown so take a crown from within your gate and pull it out as a copy of your gate that is both a portal to your inner elemental storm and the stormcloud itself formed into a crown.

Geologic Attunement have it open a copy of your gate beneath you that either attunes to the earth beneath you causing it to shift and change to hinder your enemies while giving you information through it, or change the ground beneath you in its area into earth, sand or stone, while doing the same things to the new earthen ground beneath you as it does to already earther ground.

Dust Storm would also probably open a copy of your gate beneath you, producing sand and dust if there isn't already any there so that it can get agitated and swirl and storm to conceal and move as usual.

Warming Nimbus seems like it makes more sense to just continue to emanate from the character rather than opening a copy of the gate below or above. That said I don't see any mention of protecting against extreme temperatures, but maybe resistances already cover that? Then again not having an aura up constantly makes that kind of thing less useful. Almost feels like this one should provide a hot or cold fire shield to anyone in the aura effected by it, so the Kineticist and their allies hopefully once Shape Aura comes online.

Desert Shimmer could just continue to come from the body, but this one actually feels like you could have the gate open above or below the body and have the intense heat emanate from there. Honestly while the concealment can be useful the damage on this is just sad.

Winter's Clutch almost seems like it would have to have a copy of your gate open above or below you in a way. Above you to have the chilling blast of cold air and the falling snow, or below you to also have the chilling cold air fill the area and the snow just appearing on the ground. Kind of sad the snow only fills 3 squares and disappears at the beginning of your turn, would be nice if you can leave some snow where you pass until it melts like normal.

With Sea Glass Guardians you currently have a creature of water or ice appear and flow around you. I like the flavor of that but would probably rather you open a copy of your gate beneath you that creates a thin layer of water, maybe an inch or half an inch, not necessarily enough to hinder people but enough to be thematic and have the Sea Glass Guardian leap from the water to attack and then return into the water, or have shifting tendrils/pseudopods of water and ice that lash out of the water that is clearly not deep enough for such.


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Well if you are Water only you can't really grab the Air or Earth auras. That said if you are in a party of Lizardfolk with Terrain Advantage the Water aura can make some enemies flatfooted to your allies, situationally. Only up to 3 contiguous squares and it doesn't work on your turn since you place the difficult terrain at the end of your turn and they go away at the start of your turn. Obviously a party of Lizardfolk with Terrain Mastery would benefit more from the Air aura.

A Lizardfolk might be able to pick up the Changeling Heritage, unless it is more limited on what Ancestries can pick it, and maybe go for the Snow May ancestry feat which lets them ignore the Uneven Ground from Slippery Sleet, or the Difficult Terrain of snow. Undine heritage on the other hand can gran some cold resist but I think ignoring the Uneven Ground is more useful.

I do feel like there were more feats in Ancestries/Heritages to ignore uneven ground/difficult terrain from snow or icy terrain but I can't seem to figure out where they are.


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Would be nice if Shape Aura or some built in ability allowed a Water Kineticist to be immune to their own Slippery Sleet as well as making their allies immune to it, so they could just drop in where they need without worrying about messing up their own party.


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Desert Shimmer, at least once you have Aura Shaping, can be useful battle utility. But Fire doesn't really have out of combat utility. Though yeah if I went Dedicated Fire I would definitely be handing out permanent fires to the party, up to level in party members at least.

Also man Desert Shimmer deals so little damage. I totally expected Fire to have the highest damage aura. That said I have seen people claim Winter is crazy high damage, or absolutely pathetic damage that isn't worth using the aura. Youtube/Twitch reactions can be rather varied. Some have even viewed Water as the worst or second worst element, where on here a lot of people view Water as the strongest followed by Earth or Air.

Also speaking of combat utility and auras. A party of Lizardfolk with Terrain Advantage and one Air Kineticist with Fair Winds and Shape Aura to make a decent size aura of enemy only difficult terrain that also makes any non Lizardfolk enemies in the aura flat footed against the Lizardfolk party.


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That said if Kineticist was able to ignore up to Con mod allies when using damaging/hindering Impulses then the Shape Aura feat probably needs some beefing up as that would take care of one of the major aspects of the feat. Unless that feat was also baked into the class, but that seems unlikely since it is possible to build a Kineticist that doesn't use an Aura. If you wanted to for some reason.


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Was going to say Flowing Kinetics could help a little with positioning if you can manage to fit it in to your build. Except that doesn't come online until 14th level, and by that point you are probably extremely strapped for feats.


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Building it in at 1st level would be great. It is kind of sad that the Shape Aura feat doesn't extend to other Impulses as well at the very least.


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And then you have Fire who could .... provide the Light Cantrip for their allies? Eventually there is Wandering Smoke to maybe slip through a tight space but that seems less likely to be picked up than flight, burrowing, swim speed and breathe underwater or even stepping stones to get across water/chasms.

The final version will hopefully have more utility support for Fire, and really all the elements but especially Fire. Though having more skills would be nice.


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Yeah I won't say it isn't a great Impulse that would be taken at 8th, or 10th at the latest, on any character that gets Air Impulses. I wouldn't say it is broken or OP, but it is powerful. It gets more consistent flight earlier than most options, but by the time you can spread the flight around you might have been able to pick up Flight at will through some other method. Since permanent/near-permanent flight is not entirely consistent on when it arrives.


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It does require an Air Impulse every round to keep flying without using a Fly Action, and all the extra things it adds are not added to the version your allies get, so they will still have to spend an Action Flying each round.


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In 1e not all Elemental Defenses were defensive in the way you are thinking.

Air had a 20%, base, miss chance vs ranged attacks. Scaling by 5% a level or by 5% per point of Burn invested in it, to a maximum of 75%. I think for 2e various levels of cover vs ranged would work better.

Earth had DR/adamantine equal to half their level, and could invest Burn 1 for 1 to up this to their level. So resist Physical bypassed by Adamantine. Maybe have it scale like Barbarian's Raging Resistance of 3+Con mod.

Fire dealt 1 damage per 4 levels, minimum 1, and could pump that with Burn up to 7 times to 8 damage every 4 levels. This damage is done to those hitting them with unarmed or natural attacks. In 2e I would have this effect all melee attacks directed at you. Damage should probably be better than 1/4th level but maybe not as good as twice level. Maybe implement damage dice instead of a flat number.

Water granted either a +4 armor bonus or +2 shield bonus. Either bonus increased by +1 every 4 levels. It could also be pumped up an additional 50% with Burn 1 for 1. The scaling goes too high for 2e but could just provide an item or circumstance bonus to their unarmored AC.


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While I think this idea could work you do need to determine how the Elemental Blasts would work, which traits, range and damage die would they use? Would you just be doing one elemental blast or the other but just with the shared damage type?

Is Sand going to be 120 ft range, with agile, propulsive, earth and air?


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The best I can figure out is it lets the Desert Shimmer aura effect more squares? And allows more enemies to surround your Crawling Flame to gang up on it and kill you.

I would say it is probably supposed to be comparable to an Eidolon increasing in size but it just doesn't feel like it has much of the possible benefits of an Eidolon.


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It would be nice if you could have multiple auras up at once, at least if they are the same element. It would also be nice if auras could be up all the time, out of combat too, instead of only lasting to the end of the encounter.


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I feel part of the problem is that the resistance/immunity is dependent on a trait and not on a damage type. But other than Fire the rest all do physical damage, you don't have Cold for Water and Electricity for Air which would be reasonable immunities.

Though again either way Universalists kind of throw everything out of whack in general, especially when they can gather all elements at once.


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I think a lot of what people were looking for was something that was like the old Elemental Defense where every element had something going for them. In 1e they got them at 2nd level and they increased generally as you leveled with greater increases from Burn, but we don't have Burn in 2e. In 1e everyone started with 1 element and could branch out to a 2nd at 7th, and could then spend a feat to grab the Elemental Defense of the 2nd Elemental Defense.


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What would the damage or traits be in that case? I mean if you are a Monk or have a natural attack from your Ancestry and you want to change the damage type I guess it could help with that. But that seems to really only help with Fire, or getting Slashing from Air.


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SaveVersus wrote:

I would probably limit to just Air, Earth, and Warer.

Air: +AC vs Range
Earth: Temp HP (think ablative armor)
Water: +AC while moving

Why limit to just those 3 elements? What does Fire, currently often considered the weakest element in the current playtest, get then?


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Normally I would probably go for Fire first, for the big damage. Though all the current elements at least sound like something I would like to try. Sadly Fire doesn't seem to be good damage right now, so I am more likely to go for a Water build right now.

That said in addition to the iconic Fire! Goblin there is an image of a Leshy on AoN that looks like flower petals upside down holding a little flame that makes me want to make a Leshy Fire Kineticist.


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Desert Shimmer aura w Flame Oracle MC for Incendiary Aura. A lot of actions but just start handing out persistent fire everywhere.


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YuriP wrote:
Thaago wrote:
No, it shouldn't. The class should have medium armor by default.
One alternative solution to armors would be down level of Assume Earth’s Mantle to 1 and turn it in something similar to Drakeheart Mutagen . This would solve the AC problem for STR melee without break the thematic.

Okay new idea for the Elemental Defense kind of idea.

Air gets a speed boost, still kind of like the idea of implementing some Fair Winds stuff. Possibly Cover or Greater Cover against ranged attacks. IF so then maybe Dedicated gets Greater Cover and Dual gets regular Cover? If so maybe have them start at regular and Lesser and scale up to Greater and regular at 10th or so? Also maybe give immunity to gas/stench based attacks?

Earth gets Assume Earth's Mantle at 1st, with just the armor someoneable at will and worn for as long as they want, scaling to gain the other abilities over the next 13 levels. Maybe also throw in some Resistance to Physical damage (bypassed by Adamantine?) maybe equal to 1/4th or 1/2th character level? Perhaps Dedicated gets 1/2th and Dual gets 1/4th?

Fire gets an aura of damage and has a damage shield. Say a 10ft aura, scaling in size at the same times Shape Aura does, that does 1 fire damage per round to creatures other than you in the aura at the start of their turn or when they enter the aura, and taking Shape Aura allows allies to not take the damage. Also anyone within the closer half of your aura that attacks you takes 1d6 fire damage. So within 5ft of you at 1st level. Have the damage from starting/entering your aura, and the d6 for attacking you scale as you level. Maybe every 2 or 3 levels. Perhaps Dedicated gets 1/2th level and Dual gets 1/3rd or 1/4th. Not sure on the exact levels.

Water gets an aura like fire's, same dimensions, same increases in area, but not damaging. Anyone other than yourself, and with Shape Aura your allies, have Difficult Terrain in your aura. If they get within 5ft of you, or within the closer half of your aura as your aura increases beyond 10ft, they become Slowed 1. Hmm for the Dedicated/Dual switch maybe Dedicated gets Greater Difficult Terrain eventually?

These are some ideas. Not sure exactly what to do about Universalist though. Dedicated and Dual both pick an element or two and could easily have those abilities at all times, even when not Elementally Gathered. One more powerful ability or two weaker abilities can work. But can't go much weaker for a Universalist to take 4 or 6. Unless Universalist gained the weaker benefits for them when they have the element gathered and nothing when not gathered.


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So level 17 might make you immune to those spells even if they don't deal damage.

That said metal weapons don't have the Metal trait so no it won't work on them.

And Extract Elements is again most useful to fire, though some things attacking with fire it won't work on. If you have water it will only work on those creatures I listed, as they are the only creatures that have the Water trait. Unless there is something that wasn't coded right in AoN.


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Martialmasters wrote:

Universalist definitely needs a nerf of some kind. Or the whole being immune thing needs rethinking. That class feature alone is enough to make it near folly to play anything else.

What exactly do you think they become immune to? They are only immune to the damage of things with the trait of their Element. Which is fine for Fire, lots of things have the Fire trait.

Water has Flowing Wave strikes, Pulverizing Cascade focus spell, Tempest Touch focus spell, maybe Unbreaking Wave Advance focus spell though the damage is more for if you knock something into a wall so maybe not?

The creatures with the Water trait are Brine Dragon, Bronze Dragon, Sea Dragon, Blizzardborn, Brine Shark, Danava Titan, Draugr, Drenchdead, Elemental Tsunami, Elemental Vessel, Water, Grodair, Ice Mephit, Icewyrm, Icicle Snake, Ledalusca, Living Waterfall, Marid, Minchgorm, Mist Stalker, Mudwretch, Naiad, Naiad Queen, Nereid, Ooze Mephit, Quatoid, Riekanoy, River Drake, Rusalka, Sea Drake, Steam Mephit, Tidal Master, Tidehawk, Water Mephit, Water Orm, Water Wisp, Water Yai.

As for spells with the Water Trait there are Aqueous Orb, Cataclysm, Control Water, Crashing Wave, Create Water, Deluge, Elemental Annihilation Wave, Elemental Confluence, Flowing Strike, Frigid Flurry, Geyser, Holy Cascade, Hydraulic Push, Hydraulic Torrent, Mud Pit, Obscuring Mist, Personal Rain Cloud, Pillar of Water, Quench, Sea Surge, Snowball, Solid Fog, Soothing Spring, Spout, Wall of Ice, Wall of Water.

Not all of which deal damage. Of course there are Water Impulses now. Still that is a small fraction of the things someone is going to face. It is better obviously if you have multiple elements gathered, but still most of the things you will face do not have the Air, Earth, Fire or Water trait.


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Well if we are talking quality many 3rd party groups have better quality than first party groups. But it seems like it absolutely isn't homebrew because that is something the DM brews at their home. While 3rd party is an actual company, some of which even involve people that actually worked for the first party company.


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There are many things I like about the class but if there are two things I am disappointed in. The damage is low, with the most powerful stuff it can do being comparable to maybe two cantrip casts, costing 4 actions basically. And following that of course the action economy. Too many things cost 3 actions.

Also I guess duration. Some things can be sustained, usually for a minute, but apparently you can't actually sustain things for more than 20 minutes. But some of these things seem like things the Kineticist would want on at all times. Especially things like Assume the Earth's Mantle. And of course the duration of Auras, or more precisely that they can't be used outside of combat.


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The wording suggests if you make a Sword you cannot used ranged blasts or strikes. If you create a gun you cannot make melee blasts or strikes. No idea what is supposed to happen if you make a thrown weapon, maybe melee blasts or strikes only unless you throw it as a ranged thrown strike at which point it dissipates.


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I do like PossibleCabbage's idea presented here.

Also NotEspi that could work. 1e Kineticist did have a Wild Talent that gave a scaling bonus to one or two skills based on Element. An Element could totally auto scale a skill, at least for Dedicated. There is the question of how it would work for Dual or Universalist.


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It is third party, not homebrew. Those are two very different things. The author also was apparently one of the major people making Kineticists content for Paizo in 1e.


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Hmm Legendary did only get 6 HP a level. That said they did get Elemental Defenses, and Element did determine their defenses. Also Cold and Electrical were their own elements in Legendary. Same with Aether.

I do kind of like the lack of Focus slots in the Playtest. Though Legendary could get around Focus slots by using an extra action or taking Burn which was much more temporary than in 1e.

I probably liked the one big blast with Flourish than the martial strikes, though enough strikes hitting with enough extra dice from handwraps can add up.

Legendary of course relied on spell attack rolls and spell DCs and eventually got to Legendary proficiency in those.

With Legendary the cantrip scales generally to about the same number of dice as the big blasts of the Playtest, though usually in d6s. The cantrip from Legendary usually has a little extra rider, at least on crits.

Both versions give the option of melee or ranged though Fire and Air have reduced ranges in Legendary compared to the Playtest version.

Legendary does have composite blasts, though they do similar damage to basic blasts but just deal half and half of the two damage types. Except for Blue Flame of course which just does a bit more damage than regular Fire.

The Legendary version has Infusions, which would be like the Impulses. These cost an extra action and a focus, but you can free action Burn to avoid the focus cost or extra action, for a total of 3 actions to cast, to avoid the focus cost. So a Gather Power with 1 Infusion would basically be like using a 3 action Impulse. But no need for a 4th action to Gather Element like in the Playstest version.

The Legendary version when using Infusions can have much better areas, as they scale as you level like Cantrips/Focus spells. In addition to a form Infusion you could also grab a Substance Infusion which can do different things. Though if you want to put both kinds of Infusion at one time you need 3 actions and either 2 focus points or 1 focus point and a burn free action.

There is an Aura Infusion but it is fairly different from the Kinetic Auras of the playtest. You get an aura and things that enter it or starts their turn in the aura takes half your kinetic blast damage. Which would probably be half of 10d6 by 20th level.

Chain Infusion is possibly not as good as Chain Blast. Maybe. Since Infusion reduces the damage by a spell level every hit, then again the first hit could be up to 10d6, which does let it potentially hit more targets. So maybe it is better.

While the base ranges of the Air and Fire Kinetic Blasts in Legendary are half of what they are in the Playtest there is a feat in Legendary that lets any element have 120 ft range, or 240 ft range for Air. Which is better range for Legendary, and all of the big things you can do build off the blast instead of being separate things like the Impulses. Kind of sad there wasn't an Extended Range feat in the Playtest.

Honestly I feel like Legendary tried to go for more of the 1e feel, and tried to duplicate as many of the 1e things Kineticists could do. Higher blast power but also Flourish so only one blast per round. But I do like a lot of the way the Playtest version was done. I would change some stuff, especially some of the numbers but I would be willing to play both versions.


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So if I understand correctly this would turn a 10d10 area effect into a 17d10 single target? At 20th level.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Tweezer wrote:
Ryuujin-sama wrote:
Elemental Weapon with a Fire Kineticist is still going to deal fire damage. So it isn't really going to be a huge difference against golems, unless the golem isn't immune or resistant to fire already.

I think he meant golem antimagic, which makes golems immune to almost all spells and spell like abilities (including impulses) unless they match a certain trait depending on the golem.

Striking with the elemental weapon isn't an impulse, so it should go through and actually hit.

The problem is a number of Golems are ALSO immune to Fire. So if the Golem happens to have immunity to fire the Fire Elemental Weapon isn't going to help either.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Gathered Element "constant" benefit ideas. As these ideas might be a bit powerful for free they might require a feat at like 6th or 8th level.

Air: While you have Air gathered you are constantly benefiting from a Circumstance bonus to Speed (possibly scaling 5ft every 5 or so levels?), and you have Cover vs ranged attacks. If you have the Fair Winds Impulse you are constantly under its effect and it doesn't count against your one aura at a time, the status bonus from Fair Winds Impulse for yourself is doubled to +10 ft, and your Cover against ranged attacks improves to Greater Cover vs ranged attacks.

Earth: While you have Earth gathered you are constantly under the effect of Stone Shield with the Raise a Shield action you benefit from Stone Shield constantly while you have Earth gathered. If you use the Shield Block reaction you do not lose your gathered Earth and your Stone Shield reforms at the end of that creature's turn. IF you have taken the Stone Shield Impulse your Stone Shield from gathering Earth increases its Hardness as normal for Stone Shield and you gain a free Reaction at the start of your turn that can only be used for Stone Shield's Shield Block reaction.

Fire: While you have Fire gathered you have an aura of Flame, this aura is normally 10ft but is increased by Shape Aura like Kinetic Auras and does not count against your single Kinetic Aura active at a time. Normally this aura deals 1d6 fire damage increasing by 1d6 fire damage every 5 levels. A creature takes this damage when it first enters your aura in a turn, or when it starts its turn in the aura. If you have the Desert Shimmer Impulse the two auras merge, still not counting against your limit of one Kinetic Aura at a time. The new Aura of Shimmering Flame now deals 1d6+1 Fire damage as of level 4, scaling by 1d6+1 every 3 levels. If you also have Shape Aura you can now allow your allies to ignore Concealment from your Aura of Shimmering Flame, in addition to ignoring the condition yourself, and using Shape Aura to not deal damage to your allies does not remove concealment from them. (Just in case using Shape Aura to not deal damage to an ally in Desert Shimmer also prevents them from being concealed by the aura.)

Water: While you have Water gathered you have an aura of difficult terrain for your enemies around you, this aura is normally 10ft but is increased by Shape Aura like Kinetic Auras and does not count against your single Kinetic Aura active at a time. If you have Sea Glass Guardian it merges with your slowing water aura, constantly active while you have Water gathered and not counting against your one Kinetic Aura active at a time. The combined aura now counts as greater difficult terrain for enemies. In addition you gain the Attack of Opportunity reaction and this reaction can be used as a melee Water Blast against any triggering target within your aura as your Sea Glass Guardian lashes out for you.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Yeah a separate condition that works vaguely like Drained but isn't Drained that lowers your max hp for the day, but also all goes away at the start of the next day, to get a substantial bonus to damage on all your Impulses for the day might be a good idea. The actual Drained condition is probably bad because of how some things can interact with it, and how Drained only reduces by 1 per day.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Well if the "reward" is constant the entire time you have that element gathered then it doesn't reward overflow character builds anymore than say an Elemental Blast focused character.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I feel like Status bonus to Speed for Air is wasted. So many Air abilities/auras already provide a Status bonus to Speed.

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