New Pathfinder Video Game Kickstarter


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


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A new Pathfinder video game is getting ready to launch a kickstarter campaign

Pathfinder: The Dragon's Demand Kickstarter

By Ossian Studios. Never heard of them before and their website looks like it hasn't been updated since 2021.

Liberty's Edge

Kelseus wrote:

A new Pathfinder video game is getting ready to launch a kickstarter campaign

Pathfinder: The Dragon's Demand Kickstarter

By Ossian Studios. Never heard of them before and their website looks like it hasn't been updated since 2021.

According to their website, they've got some veterans of old-school Bioware (Neverwinter Nights/Baldur's Gate era) involved in their management, so they've got more experience with the presumed genre than a new studio would otherwise imply.


I wish they would do a cool MMORPG. That would be fun. Take the APs and form them into quest lines and develop different areas of the world.

Liberty's Edge

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Deriven Firelion wrote:
I wish they would do a cool MMORPG. That would be fun. Take the APs and form them into quest lines and develop different areas of the world.

We've seen Pathfinder Online tried before and it didn't go well, MMORPGs are just so expensive to make.

Grand Archive

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

And their latest "news" post sounds like this game have been developped for at least 3 years! :O

I like Kickstarters that are made toward the end of development, much more chances to actually release. xD

"Pathbreaking" ?
They knew what they were doing when they wrote that. xD


I hope it is 2E based game.

Liberty's Edge

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As much as I am happy to see more Paizo IP being adapted into other media like video games I have to say that no matter how much promise the KS project appears to have that I simply cannot trust it.

I've been a backer of eight KS projects/products over the years and also helped contribute to two others myself and literally all but one of them had results ranging from nearly a scam to a very simple bad value. Precisely zero of them were finished and shipped on time and three of the eight never delivered AT ALL unless you count an apology update post on the KS page as a deliverable.

The one truly GOOD experience I had with KS was for a hardcover copy of The Slumbering Tsar for PF1, it DID arrive a few weeks later than they estimated initially but that's understandable and is a far cry from all of the other issues with that platform.

The two KS that I contributed to... well, one went okay but the project, being software, was extremely niche and while it did get made it didn't really make the kind of fireworks we were hoping for. The other is partially fulfilled at this point but was SUPPOSED to be finished nearly four years ago and the other 2/3rds of the product hasn't physically materialized yet. The work on it was stressful for me but moreso the people in charge of the projects who I've known for a long time and it put them under an IMMENSE amount of pressure and expectation given the weird half-promise wink-wink "KS projects are NOT a product and you have no rights to demand you receive anything at all" sort of honor system that makes the whole thing operate...

All this to say, I won't be backing this and I have absolutely no hope that whatever comes out of the other end of the pipeline with arrive on time or be very ... good, at all. I surely hope I am wrong, it hits the ground running, and ends up being published to Steam so I can give it a shot once it is actually complete but... yeah, I don't know how ANY reputable company in their right mind still thinks it's anything but a red flag when someone approaches them trying to use their IP for their KS, the dropout rate on them is just way, WAY too insanely high.


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YMMV. I've backed 145 Kickstarters and had less than ten of them not end up delivering what was supposed to be made.


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Arcaian wrote:
Deriven Firelion wrote:
I wish they would do a cool MMORPG. That would be fun. Take the APs and form them into quest lines and develop different areas of the world.
We've seen Pathfinder Online tried before and it didn't go well, MMORPGs are just so expensive to make.

To me it is incredibly sad that games like D&D and PF with this absolutely amazing content that would look so incredible if brought to life in an MMORPG don't have the money to do it.

I dream of a fully built D&D/Pathfinder type of world where I can wander to all these places in a virtual world and interact with them. The cities, the underdark, the various lands, and seeing all these monsters brought to life and doing things like an AP as part of an expansion.

But the money never seems to be there as big companies with deep pockets never seem to want to go all in to build a D&D type of world right and access all that content.

WoW and Everquest did some great things, but they have nothing next to the content of a D&D/Pathfinder type of game built over decades of content generation. But no company wants to go, "Let's blow a billion dollars building this right and put it into play."

It's sad to me. Feels like a huge, wasted opportunity.


If you were looking for something for a MMORPG the issue is that it lacks the tabletop thing of dms and story telling IMO.

Now something like Neverwinter Nights and their Persistant Worlds, that could work as people can create custom content and have DMs run things. I am actually a member of a PW for Ravenloft which we are still running and plenty of players. Something like that could work.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

Ossian did good work for the Neverwinter Nights games, but they got screwed hard by Atari.

They did Darkness Over Daggerford for Neverwinter Nights, which was supposed to be released as a premium module but got canceled at the last minute and was released for free later (and finally made into DLC when Beamdog did Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition).

They did Mysteries of Westgate for Neverwinter Nights 2, but Atari added some stupid DRM that gave you three installations, ever. Atari eventually took that restriction away, but by then the damage had been done, sales-wise.

I remember really liking Mysteries of Westgate despite some pacing issues at the end. I really hope they have a solid platform for this game, because I expect the writing to be quite good.


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Kelseus wrote:
I hope it is 2E based game.

According to a Reddit thread on this -- in particular, https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1ctcxgy/comment/l4btqfk/?utm _source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1& ;utm_content=share_button --

Quote:
This is, in fact, a single-player, turn-based, CRPG Pathfinder Second Edition video game.


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Deriven Firelion wrote:
I wish they would do a cool MMORPG. That would be fun. Take the APs and form them into quest lines and develop different areas of the world.

Gonna just go in with my hot take. MMOs hardly count as games. They're work simulators designed to drag out mediocre content over extremely long periods of time, and now with current F2P models incentivized gambling to bypass the unfun and repetitive gameplay. MMOs as a genre of video game should die, stay dead and never come back


Kelseus wrote:
I hope it is 2E based game.

The Pathfinder logo on their Kickstarter is the 2e one at least. I don't know if that tells something about the used ruleset or if that has license reasons. But it's an observation.


AestheticDialectic wrote:
Deriven Firelion wrote:
I wish they would do a cool MMORPG. That would be fun. Take the APs and form them into quest lines and develop different areas of the world.
Gonna just go in with my hot take. MMOs hardly count as games. They're work simulators designed to drag out mediocre content over extremely long periods of time, and now with current F2P models incentivized gambling to bypass the unfun and repetitive gameplay. MMOs as a genre of video game should die, stay dead and never come back

I love the big, cooperative virtual worlds. I would rather see the experience improved upon rather than see it die.

Though I get the sentiment as one of the things I did dislike about MMORPs is the repetitious questing for things like reputation for items or such.

But man, I love the breadth of such games. The feeling of traversing a large, varied virtual world and meeting and playing with other people. I want that experience to become even more realistic and enjoyable.

Virutal worlds when done well are so amazing. No game experience can touch the enjoyment of getting together with to 10 or more people and playing in a coordinated fashion to take down a big, powerful boss with a great story break at the end.

MMORPGS when done well are the greatest game experience a lover of RPG games can enjoy.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous were also Kickstarter campaigns.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Themetricsystem wrote:
I've been a backer of eight KS projects/products over the years and also helped contribute to two others myself and literally all but one of them had results ranging from nearly a scam to a very simple bad value.

I understand the frustration, but forgive me if I find it a little funny how bad your luck is. I've got 1 out of 28 that failed me.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Themetricsystem wrote:


I've been a backer of eight KS projects/products over the years and also helped contribute to two others myself and literally all but one of them had results ranging from nearly a scam to a very simple bad value. Precisely zero of them were finished and shipped on time and three of the eight never delivered AT ALL unless you count an apology update post on the KS page as a deliverable.

Man that is some horrible luck. You have my sympathies.

I've backed 113 projects and have only had 3 be disappointments and 4 not deliver.

Liberty's Edge

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If only one out of 28 failed then your definition of a failure is certainly a lot different than mine for sure. A few weeks or even months late is the NORM for KS projects and they consider anything that is shipped within two years of the estimated ship/delivery date a success and that makes up about 30% of all projects on the website and about 40% of projects on the site that are funded never deliver anything at ALL, these aren't numbers pulled out of thin air either, they're from concrete research done with over 48 buyers operated by a third party and NOT by the KS platform itself. Again, I'm no stranger to the platform at all. At the end of the day I've earned more income from the projects I was involved with than I've spent money inside the ecosystem (mostly because I don't have much expendable income). So, admittedly my view is a bit skewed and biased not only because of that but also due to the insane amount of stress that working on and fulfilling them entails.

My results, by the measure of it being a failure if it doesn't arrive within two years, are actually ABOVE the statistical average in terms of fulfilment. KS puts out its own marketing numbers based on their own intentionally bent stats they gather internally that are cooked to make the platform and the projects there appear far more likely to produce attractive results and the difference between a failure and a success according to what they would tell consumers is very simply if SOMETHING gets send to the person who spent money on KS at any point in time regardless of what IS shipped or when. Believing the numbers they put out about the success rate is like believing Pepsi Co. when it says they say they create the best-selling soda and fast food, it's all numbers bent around corners with smoke and mirrors to make them look good.

My own metric for what constituted a failure wasn't just "didn't deliver" and it is way less forgiving than fulfillment of something concrete (not even the whole project as pitched) prior to being 25 months later than the delivery date that the creator markets during the campaign, that's probably also part of why I think some here are misunderstanding me. Similarly, it's worth mentioning that two of the three that never showed anything meaningful as a return were again physical products (one was a tool and one was a book) failed in large part due to complications created by Covid so that's worth taking into account as it was more or less out of the control of the creators. Generally, if a KS doesn't at least deliver what they advertised with 100% of their stretch goals at the end of the campaign and does so within at most 6 months of the release date they pitch I don't consider that project as scoring even a passing grade.

All this to say, I flat out don't believe the accounts saying I'm unlucky, if anything the rate of success I had, if measured against the "did it EVER deliver" yardstick, was higher than average. The data does not back up the anecdotes that others have mentioned here that most projects people backed turned out well, if so then my best guess as to why that might be is that those projects were already complete before the page went up. For such already complete projects, there wasn't any need to run such a KS campaign for any reason other than an easy but expensive way to market the thing (while also running the risk of trying to keep up with demand for push goals that expand the scope of projects in ways that are almost always unexpected and unanticipated) or ... you're just super lucky mixed with having an eye for how to pick the right projects that will succeed.

If they were making a film, music album, writing a play or creating a digital book/comic I'd have much more faith that this is something that can meaningfully be delivered in the state it is marketed as or even remotely close to the deliver date they will announce but as this is software that will invariably end up trying to raise a mere pittance of the cost to actually develop/finish the game I'm apt to just see it for what it is, a penny pinching marketing effort that even if it goes 500% of its goal will hardly cover the wages spent to keep a handful of developers paid for a single year.

Owlcat DOES get the honorable mention here as they did a great job on their games and actually put out what they said they would but again, that's an exception to the norm and since Owlcat decided they're done with Paizo IP and a different studio is behind this then I'm entirely unconvinced they have the resources, staff, motivation, or ability to meet my own personal standard for what it takes to earn my dollar for what amounts to a scam-prone reserve copy of a game... maybe I'm holding too high of a standard for such projects and that's skewing the discussion a bit causing us to talk past each other somewhat but... yeah, I think PF2 is the best thing Paizo has ever produced and have felt since the Playtest days that it is absolutely RIPE for development and adapting into a video game but... through KS? No thanks.


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Deriven Firelion wrote:
To me it is incredibly sad that games like D&D and PF with this absolutely amazing content that would look so incredible if brought to life in an MMORPG don't have the money to do it.

Dungeons and Dragons Online was launched almost 20 years ago, and is still a thing. It does not, in fact, "look so incredible". I tried it out once, briefly, and it was pretty jank. They're still managing to make enough money off of it that expansions keep coming out, at least?

"I can imagine how awesome it might be in my mind." does not translate to it actually being that awesome in implementation.

As for this new game... I doubt I will kickstart, but I expect that it'll show up on Steam eventually, and if it does I am highly likely to buy.

Edit: Doing a bit of cyberstalking, this is a real studio that puts out real products... slowly. There's something like a 4-6 year break between each of their previous projects, and this new one looks like it's tracking along on that same schedule, more or less. The only failed project I saw was dropped because they were working with CD Projekt Red at a time when CDPR just cratered, and CDPR pulled the plug.

Based on what I'm seeing, I expect that they'll be ale to deliver, and that when they do the result will be a solid, playable game... which, given that it's based on PF2, is enough to get me to open my wallet without complaint or objection. So hey - maybe we get an Owlcat successor. That would be cool.


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Why on Earth would people be lying about receiving Kickstarters? It's an accusation that doesn't make sense - who benefits? Don't be absurd.


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keftiu wrote:
Why on Earth would people be lying about receiving Kickstarters? It's an accusation that doesn't make sense - who benefits? Don't be absurd.

I... don't think that's what he meant?

I'm pretty sure that he's not arguing that they were lying about their own personal experience with kickstarter... rather claiming that the conclusions reached (that kickstarter generally works, and people generally don't get horked over) aren't supported by the more general information that he's dug into.

Admittedly, the wording wasn't great.

Liberty's Edge

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Note: As an hour has passed it is too late to edit a typo, it wasn't 48 people surveyed, it was 48 thousand.

People have lied about much more relevant and important topics than KS projects around here and the other social media spheres that make up the Paizo community. Besides, I never accused anyone of lying, I merely said that I didn't believe I was unlucky at all but instead just had about the normal and expected results from the projects that I backed, most projects that arise from KS are disappointing after everything is said and done even if the final product does eventually get made.

The fact is, KS isn't a platform that I think deserves any serious attention or support given the proven track record it has for letting down backers. As you rightly said, your results may certainly vary, but I've been burned too many times and seen how the sausage gets made, so I cannot support this project as it stands now.

If this goes really well and they end up getting a Steam page with an early access build that can be played/play-tested I'll absolutely give it a shot, PF2 as a game system absolutely deserves the kind of love and attention that would flow from a properly made CRPG but investing through KS, to me, is little more than gambling on a video game that is at least a full year from being released with an early build that even if funded might never actually come to exist since, well, KS doesn't actually require the creators to do much more than show a minimal amount of effort that they're trying to create what the project claims and once you checkout that money is gone forever.

If you don't like the way my two copper pieces shine in the moonlight that is fine but I'll stand by my opinion as I don't feel I've said or shown has been even remotely out of pocket.

Backerkit though, I'd be more likely if that was the avenue they used, yes it is smaller but the advantages it has for both creators and those who pledge are superior even despite it being a much smaller operation without as many eyes on it, especially since Backerkit has a MUCH more consumer-friendly policy in that it does allow refunds in some circumstances whereas KS practically has been built from the ground up to ensure refunds never happen.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Look, to be honest, I called you unlucky earlier out of charity. You're actually just bad at judging a kickstarter's chances of success. The majority of people are similarly bad at it, thus the numbers as a whole.


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WatersLethe wrote:
Look, to be honest, I called you unlucky earlier out of charity. You're actually just bad at judging a kickstarter's chances of success. The majority of people are similarly bad at it, thus the numbers as a whole.

To be fair, deciding that you're never going to put money into Kickstarter ever again is one of the better responses to being bad at judging a kickstarter's chances of success.

...also, if the majority of people are similarly bad, then what's really happening is that there's a minority of people who are good at such judgments and can get consistently good results, and everyone else would probably be well-served to avoid it, rather than continuing to kickstart poorly... which means that his general take on the situation isn't actually wrong.

Liberty's Edge

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... and that's a problem with the platform and how it operates... if 40% of purchases for any product resulted in getting nothing at all and another 30% arrive over two years later than intended that's not a skill issue, that's a systemic issue with the service and platform itself.

Trying to diss the people who are being sold on something they want to buy because they didn't know better in advance not to trust the creators/project is practically adjacent to victim-blaming. The website harvests 5-10% of the money generated for projects for itself, stubbornly refuses to take any accountability or hold creators' feet to the fire if they either intentionally are just out to score a bag or simply just fall short. "You should know better" isn't a valid excuse, it's survivorship bias.

Nobody should trust that they're going to get anything at all from KS, that's part of the foundation that keeps the company so profitable and isn't something I can support on sheer ethical grounds.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
keftiu wrote:
YMMV. I've backed 145 Kickstarters and had less than ten of them not end up delivering what was supposed to be made.

I have backed almost twice that, with about the same percentage of failure.


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TriOmegaZero wrote:
keftiu wrote:
YMMV. I've backed 145 Kickstarters and had less than ten of them not end up delivering what was supposed to be made.
I have backed almost twice that, with about the same percentage of failure.

Clearly, we're both dastardly deceivers who want to... I'm not sure what exactly, but it must be bad!

Paizo Employee Community and Social Media Specialist

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This thread is derailing. Let's please cease with the personal attacks and disparaging remarks about partners. You are freely allowed to voice your personal opinions, but be polite while doing so.


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So... to pull this back towards on-topic... honestly, Ossian looks fairly reliable. They're been around for 20 years, they've produced a few solid products, it doesn't look like they've got reason to be ashamed of anything they've ever made, and the only time one of their products fell through, it was through no fault of their own.

Further, a lot of their previous work was on NWN, which at least gives reason to hope that the result will be running on something close to the actual PF2 ruleset. Like, Gallowspire Survivors was fun enough, and I played a fair bit of it, and I'm not unhappy I bought it, but the connection to PF2 was pretty tenuous. There's reason to hope that this one does better than that.

...and if they *do* wind up putting together a solid platform for a real PF2-based game, that's great, because it'll make further PF2 games, and SF2 games, a lot easier to put together. Extra bonus that it's turn-based, because that means that... well, basically anyone who plays the game will be teaching themselves to play PF2. It's not like they're not going to use the three-action system.

I also notice how on-the-ball Paizo has been about this. Like... this thing has been in the works for years now. It looks like this is the thing they put out a news post about back in December of 2021. Remember back when we kept begging for something like this? Apparently, it was already being made.

Now... it's worth noting that there pretty clearly have been delays. They put out news on their site in 2021 to be ready for a further announcement in summer of 2022... and then didn't say anything more about it for over two years. Not clear what would have driven that, but there's a decent chance that that means that the graphics are going to be a smidge outdated. At the same time...? I happily buy games on Steam that are 5 or more years old. "Cutting edge" isn't really on my priority list, as far as computer games are concerned. This doesn't bother me.


I am less concerned with this game not delivering. I would expect that Paizo would do their homework before letting just anyone use their license for a kickstarter.

Obviously we don't really know anything other than it is something coming. Maybe we will get some info during Paizo Con this weekend?

I am excited. I just hope that when it comes out I have a PC/Game system that can actually run it. I Kickstared WotR and have it on my laptop, but it can barely run. I paid for it a second time and it works much better on my Switch.


Deriven Firelion wrote:
AestheticDialectic wrote:
Deriven Firelion wrote:
I wish they would do a cool MMORPG. That would be fun. Take the APs and form them into quest lines and develop different areas of the world.
Gonna just go in with my hot take. MMOs hardly count as games. They're work simulators designed to drag out mediocre content over extremely long periods of time, and now with current F2P models incentivized gambling to bypass the unfun and repetitive gameplay. MMOs as a genre of video game should die, stay dead and never come back

I love the big, cooperative virtual worlds. I would rather see the experience improved upon rather than see it die.

Though I get the sentiment as one of the things I did dislike about MMORPs is the repetitious questing for things like reputation for items or such.

But man, I love the breadth of such games. The feeling of traversing a large, varied virtual world and meeting and playing with other people. I want that experience to become even more realistic and enjoyable.

Virutal worlds when done well are so amazing. No game experience can touch the enjoyment of getting together with to 10 or more people and playing in a coordinated fashion to take down a big, powerful boss with a great story break at the end.

MMORPGS when done well are the greatest game experience a lover of RPG games can enjoy.

I feel like MMOs have mostly died out, replaced by various other live service games. That aren't really any less grindy anyways, a lot of them.


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I may likely back the Kickstarter with the full knowledge it may fail because I see giving them my money as a way to help them give this a shot and if they fail, thems the breaks. Backing a kick starter is not purchasing a product, it is giving someone the funds to try and make something they otherwise couldn't have. Emphasis on try


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Sanityfaerie wrote:

So... to pull this back towards on-topic... honestly, Ossian looks fairly reliable. They're been around for 20 years, they've produced a few solid products, it doesn't look like they've got reason to be ashamed of anything they've ever made, and the only time one of their products fell through, it was through no fault of their own.

Further, a lot of their previous work was on NWN, which at least gives reason to hope that the result will be running on something close to the actual PF2 ruleset. Like, Gallowspire Survivors was fun enough, and I played a fair bit of it, and I'm not unhappy I bought it, but the connection to PF2 was pretty tenuous. There's reason to hope that this one does better than that.

...and if they *do* wind up putting together a solid platform for a real PF2-based game, that's great, because it'll make further PF2 games, and SF2 games, a lot easier to put together. Extra bonus that it's turn-based, because that means that... well, basically anyone who plays the game will be teaching themselves to play PF2. It's not like they're not going to use the three-action system.

I also notice how on-the-ball Paizo has been about this. Like... this thing has been in the works for years now. It looks like this is the thing they put out a news post about back in December of 2021. Remember back when we kept begging for something like this? Apparently, it was already being made.

Now... it's worth noting that there pretty clearly have been delays. They put out news on their site in 2021 to be ready for a further announcement in summer of 2022... and then didn't say anything more about it for over two years. Not clear what would have driven that, but there's a decent chance that that means that the graphics are going to be a smidge outdated. At the same time...? I happily buy games on Steam that are 5 or more years old. "Cutting edge" isn't really on my priority list, as far as computer games are concerned. This doesn't bother me.

2021 the Dragon's Demand could still have been made with a green dragon, and likly kept its 1E OGL roots. Now, i expect they want it to move away from anything that could be DnD based. I am curious if this has been in the works for a bit how much was Paizo asking them to make adjustments for the story to now meet 2E core material, with a hroned dragon and possibly different enemies throughout.


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I'm VERY happy for this and with a company that has a good background, can't wait and might be getting it sooner rather than years ahead. we will see at PAIZOCON what new news there might be!!'

Ha Ha

Could this be Owlcats replacement if it has to be, and its for PF II, SWEET!!

Tom :)

Liberty's Edge

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Kelseus wrote:

I am less concerned with this game not delivering. I would expect that Paizo would do their homework before letting just anyone use their license for a kickstarter.

Obviously we don't really know anything other than it is something coming. Maybe we will get some info during Paizo Con this weekend?

I am excited. I just hope that when it comes out I have a PC/Game system that can actually run it. I Kickstared WotR and have it on my laptop, but it can barely run. I paid for it a second time and it works much better on my Switch.

TBT, apart from Owlcat, Paizo's forays in the digital universe have been usually unsuccessful.

And they missed Pathbuilder 2 and took a long time to open up to Foundry.

Now, maybe the new management is more digital-savvy but I would not bet too much on it.


The Pathfinder Card Game works pretty well on my tablet.


Ehrmagherd, if this has anything like the graphical approach of NWN1 and NWN2 (complete 360 degree camera with zoom in/out) and PF2’s ruleset then I will back it immediately.

Will be even better if it has all the modding/hakpak operability that inspired a worldwide community of creators to upload content. That NWN and NWN2 enjoyed for years.

I’ve been posting about wanting this for…years on this forum. Excited.


Conscious Meat wrote:
Kelseus wrote:
I hope it is 2E based game.

According to a Reddit thread on this -- in particular, LINK

Quote:
This is, in fact, a single-player, turn-based, CRPG Pathfinder Second Edition video game.

Link’t.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The choice of story is an interesting one. I feel like the CRPG market in general has been looking for sprawling, expansive games, but Dragon's Demand is a short and fairly focused adventure.

Obviously room to deviate off the script or flesh out some of the areas the module didn't expand upon to add more content (like I know one common criticism was that the town itself was underbaked) and "hub town you do quests off of" is a nice structural starting point.

It'll be interesting to see how this looks when we get more info.

... The announcement format is kind of weird though. "We're going to open a kickstarter soon" is kind of like announcing that you're going to announce something.

WatersLethe wrote:
Look, to be honest, I called you unlucky earlier out of charity. You're actually just bad at judging a kickstarter's chances of success. The majority of people are similarly bad at it, thus the numbers as a whole.

I'm not sure this is the defense you think it is. It's just kind of acknowledging that Kickstarter is problematic but then also being weirdly elitist about it.


Hmm. Given the image is of minaiture-esque characters and the blurb says “Experience the magic of digital tabletop with miniatures” I’m…less excited. It looks pretty small scale and not very dynamic. I’ll check it out when it launches.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Squiggit wrote:


I'm not sure this is the defense you think it is. It's just kind of acknowledging that Kickstarter is problematic but then also being weirdly elitist about it.

Not elitist, realist. Saying Kickstarter shouldn't be used because on average there is a high percentage of failed campaigns is like saying gym memberships are a scam because most people don't go enough to justify the cost.

Just because we live in a world where people use the tool that is Kickstarter to propose "invisible umbrellas" and thousands of people are gullible enough to fall for it, doesn't mean other people can't make good use of it.

If you know what you're doing, and you do your research, you can absolutely have a high success rate.


Please take the Kickstarter pros and cons discussion off-planet. ;) Or to PMs.

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