Duchess of Wintercrux Svetochka Elvanna

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Another one. The elemental Lord Sairazul is a friend of the Dwarves and while not related to Torag and his family is counted among their freinds and often visits them. And its not uncommon for the dwarves to include her in their worship, especially druids and primal casters.

She just feels perfect to include with dwarves to me.


zimmerwald1915 wrote:
Morhek wrote:
vyshan wrote:
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
Zoken44 wrote:
The recognition of the Irisseni immigrants from that other place their current queen comes from has caused many questions of how the Osirion gods came to be on this plane. and a name has been whispered during storms in the far north. the name of another god who may have come through, his wing beats like thunder, they whisper the name "Perun"
Surely no one can have missed that the Russian diaspora in Irrisen is very conspicuously Christian?
I wonder what domains Jesus would give? and how they handle being christian in a land where gods are very much real?
People were unhappy about the inclusion of IRL gods like Cernunnos or the gods of Osirion. I'm not sure Jesus H. Christ himself is a third rail that Paizo want to touch.
If they didn't, they could have just not included a Russian diaspora in the Lost Omens Campaign Setting. This would even, in many ways, have left the setting much improved.

I kind of agree. Not to mention Anastasia is IIRC literally canonized by the Russian Orthodox Church. It would have been neater IMO if instead of Anastasia it was Vasilia the Beautiful, which ties to the Slavic Folklore and Baba Yaga without being. So the christian thing kind feels like it has to be addressed somehow when we get an Irrisen book.


zimmerwald1915 wrote:
Zoken44 wrote:
The recognition of the Irisseni immigrants from that other place their current queen comes from has caused many questions of how the Osirion gods came to be on this plane. and a name has been whispered during storms in the far north. the name of another god who may have come through, his wing beats like thunder, they whisper the name "Perun"
Surely no one can have missed that the Russian diaspora in Irrisen is very conspicuously Christian?

I wonder what domains Jesus would give? and how they handle being christian in a land where gods are very much real?


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So a fan theory that I have basically made canon for my setting is that Casandalee is basically Brigh's daughter, and they have a mother-daughter relationship. This is born out of the fact that her final renewal began at a monastary of Brigh in the Mana Wastes where she trained and learned of brigh and once she ascended to divinity, she was adopted by Brigh.

Casandalee is a young goddess that Brigh is helping to teach, to care for, like a mother teaching her daughter. And if you disrespect Casandalee then Brigh will be irate at you, ie expect curses. Likewise if you insult Brigh for Casandalee.

Consequently in temples devoted to One you will find a shrine to the other, and that it is basically unheard of for one to pray to one and never pray to the other.

Also in Alkenstar and the mana wastes while rather rare, you can find pilgrims going to the holy sites.


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Miraklu wrote:
Souls At War wrote:

While Good vs Evil is one thing, it can be useful to remember the whole Law vs Chaos part, and maybe avoid conflating Good with Law and Evil with Chaos.

Also, Robin Hood as a "good thief"

That one I want clarify, Robin Hood was a Thief out of Necessity. If everything went well, he would have happily just remained a noble and kept running his estate well.

But he couldn't, it was desperate Times

And circumstances can be explained, even excused

But if your base approach is "PLunder and Raid" in every situation, no matter if poor or Rich, that is diffrent for me. Piracy for Piracy sake, is a vile act for me.

That depends on the source you are using. The character of Robin Hood is a folkloric character and has a number of versions. the Noble origin is a latter addition to Robin Hood, heck even Maid Marion wasn't in some of the earlist Ballads. Also in the original Ballads, it wasn't just a desperate thing, I don't know when he got his rob from the rich to give to the poor thing but it wasn't there in the early ballads, though some of them did have him with a code of conduct.


Zoken44 wrote:
Prejudices don't need to make sense. they are inherently based on falsehoods. In other words, Chelaxians believe this crap because they are terrible people, not be cause there is any sort of sense. They justify it with whatever they need to, the justification comes AFTER the hatred, it does not breed the hatred.

Yea this.


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Tridus wrote:
vyshan wrote:
So I have noticed that in several books there are actual recipes and thus it makes me curious if we could ever get a pathfinder cookbook.

Lost Omens Culinary Guide!

Some of those "licenced property theme" cookbooks are surprisingly good. I have the Final Fantasy XIV one and there are some tasty, fun to make recipies in there. But they also did an amazing job of actually making it feel like something from the game, with recipies appropriate to locations and flavor text to tie the book together. (The hardest recipie in it is for crossants, and it actually gets treated as if it was a trial boss encounter from the game.)

Some recipies from across Golarian showcasing the cultures that influence the setting would be really interesting.

I have the witcher cookbook and I really like it which is one of the things that made me think such a cookbook would be nice. I have heard good things about other fiction inspired cookbooks like the elder scrolls one.


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So I have noticed that in several books there are actual recipes and thus it makes me curious if we could ever get a pathfinder cookbook.


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keftiu wrote:
Morhek wrote:
Knowing absolutely nothing about Sarkoris other than it's a formerly demon-infested realm once populated by the vaguely-Celtic kellids[...]
It's worth saying that they've been pretty significantly PNW Native-coded in a lot of PF2 material.

Yea that was something I noticed as well. I thought that the kellids were more celtic inspired at least that is what I got from WOTR.


Karys wrote:

Either something is wrong on my end or something I said was a step too far and my previous post was sent to the Boneyard.

But I'll just reiterate that the books I would die for are anything about Numeria or a Lost Omens book covering current events in the solar system.

Isn't Starfinder getting books on the star system of Golarion?

I hope that when starfinder comes out we can get something for numeria and a spiritual sequel to Iron Gods, as it would be a fun bit of crossover.


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keftiu wrote:
Kavlor wrote:
Third: I love dark fantasy, and so I literally have zero problems with the world having injustice in it, especially since there were plenty of them in real history. I like to immerse myself in the mentality and atmosphere of an ancient society, and not play as a modern person with modern morals.

Golarion has arcade games and trains in certain parts of the world. You can meet aliens and androids from other planets. Queer rights seem normalized essentially everywhere. Slavery bas been outlawed across the Inner Sea, seen as abhorrent by most and a liability even to the tyrannical regimes. You can be a magical girl who drinks boba tea, a cowboy who loves airship travel, or a mermaid who gets around on land with a magical wheelchair.

Whatever you're projecting onto the setting, it's not the grimdark, backwards fantasy you make it out to be in any of the 2e texts I've read. Injustice still exists, there are problems for heroes to solve, but everything about the handling of Arcadia for over a decade now suggests the writers have no interest in the path you want - and I'm thankful for that.

EDIT: There's also the argument to be made for novelty. I've seen Fantasy Conquistadors before plenty of times, especially in Maztica and Ixalan. You know what I've never seen in fantasy? Thriving Indigenous cultures that *aren't* under the gun from imaginary white people. Not only do I not want to revel in recreating historical ethnic cleansing, I'd also just genuinely like to see other inspirations get their chance to shine standing alone.

Yea Pathfinder isn't meant to be a historical game, nor has it ever been. Sure there are references, but it is a heroic fantasy game. Sure I like looking to history if there are details that can be done to improve things because I just love history but Pathfinder isn't a historical game nor would I want it to be.

Moreover Arcadia isn't just drawing from pre-columbia americas but stuff after it too. there are luchadors in Arcadia after all. It is drawing from fantasy of all types from the Americas and that is cool.


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Speaking of other regions. Something I would adore are more books like the travel guide but for other regions like Tian Xia, Casmeron, Arcadia, etc. It was such a fun book to just get flavor details of how people live in the world.

I also would like some more books for other areas of the world like the Grand Bazaar. The Grand Bazaar is such a fun book for making shops actual places and not just list of goods to buy.


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From the Abasalom book:

Water supplies are handled simply by a combination of cisterns, underground reservoirs, and a large number of water towers and rain barrels.


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Squiggit wrote:
Trip.H wrote:
Rahadoum being a fascist theocratic state would be unacceptable because it's putting the (downright cartoonish) evils of that nation at the blame of a real minority group's unique beliefs.
Rahadoum's dogma doesn't really map to any real world minority group though.

He is claiming that the minority is atheism and that it maps to and that this is anti-atheist propaganda like evanglical christians would say that atheists are atheists just because they hate the Christian God.


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Castilliano wrote:

I had a player who, due to a spiritual experience, truly believed in an Egyptian cat goddess, Bastet perhaps, but maybe the other one. I wish I could ask him (RIP) how he feels about Egyptian religious representation in Osirion. And then there are some of the other Earth-like pantheons too. Would we subtract them too? There's too much wealth of Earth lore, much of it unplumbed, to rob ourselves of it all.

I also wonder if many of those kinda-from-Earth deities are getting killed in the Godsrain to remove more such connections, much like removing other lore/monsters/items linked to specific Earth-only, non-Golarion cultures. A similar removal happened in Forgotten Realms, where in the deep past Baldur's Gate was named after the Earth god kinda trapped on Faerun, not some in-world hero. Lots of miscellaneous Earth lore had merged there, but that disappeared as Forgotten Realms became a formal setting.
Tricky area, wanting to feature lore, but not step on toes. Glad Paizo listens, and tries to hire people from the cultures which have corollaries on Golarion. I guess if Paizo does launch a Rahadoum AP they should hire us atheists. :-) (And OMG, as a consequence of the Godsrain seems the most appropriate time!)

I know a few Kemetics, a bunch of Heathens, and a good number of Hellenists in my discord servers I am part of as I am a polytheist specifically I am a hellenist and venerate principally the Greek deities, though I also venerate various Hindu deities. And I specifically use venerate over believe because believe is a bit odd for me. I believe that all gods and goddesses exist, be it greek, norse, egyptian, hindu, various indgenious and so on. But I worship the Greek deities, they are who I build reciprocity with, who I make offerings to, the holy days I follow are around holy days for them.

As for how pop-culture tends to cover them? eh, they can be fun for entertainment but I haven't really found a game that really captures how I see the Theoi. That said I am still excited for Iblydos, it seems to be one of the few pop culture to cover hero-cults as a concept.

Moreover there is so much from realworld mythologies that taking away would just be bad. To use my religion(Hellenism) Centaurs, Minotaurs, Sirens, Harpies, Cyclopes, Eriynes, and so on. Not to mention for Pathfinder all the Daemons that play a major role in Pathfinder. Even if many of these aren't like in my religion, the Eryines for example are beings I have venerated and given offerings to.

Anyways rambling aside my point is that removing elements from real world religions would weaken things. One of the things that I think many love about the Tian Xia world and character books is how they integrate and use various asian folklore and mythologies to have a fun setting with fun creatures, items, spells, gods, and so on.


Lorkan wrote:
Hello, question from a player: How much will the backgrounds from the Player's Guide come up? Like, is it worth it for a Cleric to pick the "Banished Brighite" background? Will there be interaction with Brigh-centric themes, or is it just flavor? Will I miss out if I just take Sarenrae or something?

There are brigh themes, particularly in Book two. Though it does depend on your DM. I am going to play up the church of Brigh when I run it but I am biased as I like Brigh. This is IMO something though to bring up with your GM during a session 0.

The important things with the backgrounds are giving you a reason why you were outlawed and why you hate either/and Loveless and mugland.


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In regards to atheism. there have been state atheist countries on Earth, like the soviet union, north korea, china. Furthermore I see a lot of anti-theist rhetoric being colonialist whereby indeginious beliefs aren't respectable and should be eradicated to get rid of all religion. Of course Antitheism by its nature is not pluralistic, other forms of atheism absolutely are pluralistic. If you are enforcing atheism it is just as bad as enforcing another religion.

Atheism can and has been used for harm just as much as religions like Christianity or Islam. and just like how not all Christianity is like fundamentalist evangelicalism not all atheism is like antitheism.

Moreover I strongly disagree with your statement that religion == harm always. sure can religions lead people to harm, yes but so can anything with enough fanaticism. Moreover there are numerous different spiritual traditions both on earth and on golarion. Not all of them are religious exclusive or shaped in the way Christianity and Islam are.

and I am pretty sure James Jacobs or another Paizo Developer can say that Rahadoum was not a "look at how bad atheism is we think atheists suck and here is some propaganda aimed at them." Heck I am pretty sure that they have atheists among there team.

Rahadoum does have other things then just being anti-theist. even the Laws of Mortality which are aggressive for it include this line in the edicts: provide a peaceful and autonomous society in which the people are cared for through social infrastructure.

That is something that they actively encourage, they encourge mutual aid, social welfare and taking care of one another. There is also the fact that Kassi Aziril is one of the greatest doctors in the setting.

Moreover atheists can be found throughout golarion, yes Rahadoum is the main area but its not the only. The problem with any land being the atheist country is it has to be enforced in a world like Golarion where the gods very much are real and people would be free to choose their religion.

While the Golden road hasn't gotten the treatment it deserves, much to my dismay. The land holds potential. and while the oppression by the pure legion is absolutly there, so is the social welfare and advances in medicine.


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moosher12 wrote:
pH unbalanced wrote:
moosher12 wrote:

One of my players is practically begging for a Lost Omens: Arcadia.

As for me, I want the Pathfinder Technology Guide equivalent that dives deep into Numerian and Earthling/Stasian technology on Golarion, and that also gives Pathfinder classes expansions to give them some futuristic options in a Starfinder game, as well as giving heavier Fantasy themed options for Starfinder classes.

Of course, I'm looking forward to Secrets of Magic and Dark Archive getting their replacement. Still standing by my Impossible Playtest theory.

There's some Stasian Tech content in Rival Academies, including a Doctor Frankenstein archetype.

I'm aware, but what I mean is a DEEP dive. More earth tech. Bring us the stats for the looted Russian weapons as well as more 1920s-30s earth conveniences, hopefully with a few European and American items as well. I wanna see the Nagant Revolver and the Nagant Rifle, the Maxim machine gun, stuff like that. On the side of appliances, maybe a theater projector, refrigerators, vacuum cleaners, radios, phonographs, etc, etc. Take a peak into the alien technologies Princess Anastasia grew up with.

I want a Guns and Gears sized book that is 2/5th Numerian scifi, 2/5th exported Earthling 1920s-30s tech, and 1/5th Starfinder/Pathfinder merging guidelines to cover Starfinder's GM Core's rules from the Pathfinder side.

A lost Omen Irrisen would be good to cover that as IIRC Anastasia is importing stuff from Earth. Also to cover what religion is in Irrisen, and to answer how a devoted orthodox princess now Queen is handling religion(and one who the Russian Orthodox Church canonized as a saint) but also what sort of neat ice deities would be there.

Irrisen is a fun land and there is a lot of potential there IMO. :)


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Give me a Casmeron book! give me a gold road book!


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Rahadoum wants no religion. This isn't just about the state churches but about all religious people. This includes a kindly priestess of Shelyn who is preaching on the virtues of love and mercy, a wandering desna priestess guiding people through the desert, A priest of Cayden Caillan who operats a caravansea taverna for people to get some drinks and a respite through the desert. Someone who is telling the stories inspired by Grandmother Spider is bad because of harm.

There are many deities whose "church" is highly disorganized if one can even call it organized to begin with. Desna and Shelyn and Cayden Caillian come to mind right away but also many empyreal lords, a fair number of the mwangi and tian xia gods.

You seem to think religion == oppression, but faith is not. That religions by their nature are harmful. of course there is no actual definition of religion that can be defined, it is a know it when one sees it. One of the frameworks that Religion for breakfast taught me was that when looking at religious traditions remember the Three Bs, Belief, Behaviors, and Belonging. Not all traditions put emphasis on Belief, some focus much more on behaviors and belonging though all three are emphasized to some degree it is just a matter of where the focus is. Ethnoreligious groups exist in real life and in Golarion. There are a number of cultural deities that are associated with ancestries like the Anadi and Grandmother spider, or the Kitsune and Daikitsu, Just to name a two, should their cultural practices be removed tied to these deities.

Moreover in Golorian deities and other divine beings are real. It is not a matter of belief. No amount of belief in if Pharasma is real or not, or if she is just a strong mage will change the fact that when you die she and her ushers are presiding judgement over your soul. Sarenrae exists, Desna exists, Asmodeus exists.

Moreover it isn't the only land that is atheistic or doesn't focus on the worship of deities.

There is druma with the prophecies of Kallistrade which while they do have religious members, many don't follow any deity. Though one can make a very good argument that the Kalistocrats are practioners of a non-theistic religion.

Abaslom famously has the Grey Cloaks who are atheistic and there probably are many who are atheistic.

Plenty of Atheists exist in the riverlands, but of course that is a land of wannabe rulers and tyrants but hey a ruler can be as nice as they want to be in the land that they carve for themselves there.

There is the land of Bachunan which complicated. It is an oppressive government that came about following a revolution, but as Grandmother Pei gets older younger revolutionaries are changing things for the better. More religious freedom has been allowed which means traditional deities are seeing a resurgence but many are still atheists. You got people like the nine stripe tigers and their leader Suokasu who has closed down labor camps, freed political prisoners, and so on. So things are improving.

Finally the Laws of Mortality and Atheism in Divine Mysteries are in different pages and more over they have different edicts and anathamas. Atheism has none for both edicts and anathamas while the Laws of Mortality have:

Edicts challenge religious power and the spread of religion, expose and eradicate hidden worship, provide a peaceful and autonomous society in which the people are cared for through social infrastructure
Anathema worship or swear an oath by a deity or religion, solicit or receive divine or religious aid, take a side in conflicts between religions


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Trip.H wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
PF1 Oracle is a Rahadoumi who had to flee the country after receiving her powers.

That is honestly super disappointing, and might be in the "yikes" category.

The more I sit with it, the worse it sounds.

Out of all the infinity of possibility, the pf hero representing the entire country is a victim of unjust religious persecution.

Like, holy s~!*, what were they thinking. It puts a lot of paint toward the picture of the whole country being little more than a bunch of anti-theist witch cleric hunters.

.

It's also just super lame. The character being an Oracle makes them an unwilling user of divine magic. This maximizes the "injustice" of their backstory, but it also robs it of all nuance and interesting room for conflict.

If they were a willing cleric to a god, that would add so many more questions and complexity to the situation.

But nope. It is instead the maximal "bad anti-theist country, grr" as is possible.

.

The surface level backstory to Rahadoum is that they had such a bad and traumatic period of "untold devastation" of capital W War between the religions of Nethys, Norgorber, and Sarenrae, that the country picked door number 4 and declared "no more religions."

Like, the Laws of Mortality are canonically born out of *war* trauma, and the whole nation knows life would be easier if they allowed gods and their magic.

Their backstory is the peasants kicking out the warring Catholic *and* Protestant churches to do their own thing, yet somehow they decided the nation's representative hero to all players/readers is that.

That is a major oof, and major yikes from me dawg.

How is this Yikes? Is it Yikes that Cheliax and Nidal are Oppressive? The Iconics from Cheliax are either the villian iconics from Hells Vegenance(Lazzero Dalvera*, and Linxia Benzekri) born into slavery(both Lem and Meligaster), or a non-villian token evil regular iconic(Seltyiel) is that yikes?

*He came from Molthune but then joined up with Cheliax.


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Pronate11 wrote:
vyshan wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
PF1 Oracle is a Rahadoumi who had to flee the country after receiving her powers.

She isn't the only Rahadoumi Iconic. There is Enora the 1st edition Arcanist but she is in self-exile because she worships Nethys. As well as Thaleon, The iconic Pyschic who is traveling the world as he is a brightness seeker but is otherwise seems to be a pleasant guy.

Ragadoumi seems to have an extremely high number of iconics per capita. Can anywhere else beat it?

Varisia has the most at 6 Iconics followed by Cheliax, Absalom, and of all things the Lands of the Linorm Kings at 4.


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The Raven Black wrote:
PF1 Oracle is a Rahadoumi who had to flee the country after receiving her powers.

She isn't the only Rahadoumi Iconic. There is Enora the 1st edition Arcanist but she is in self-exile because she worships Nethys. As well as Thaleon, The iconic Pyschic who is traveling the world as he is a brightness seeker but is otherwise seems to be a pleasant guy.


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Here is some info from the Firebrands book on Rahadoum. It doesn't mention if they still do or do not do slavery but considering it called out other organizations and Paizo's general stance I would say they don't. They are plenty oppressive as it as being an anti-theist that sees a shelynite praying for love something to be imprisoned, exiled, or potentially even executed for.

Firebrands wrote:
Rahadoum: The nation where practicing any faith is outlawed has seen several acts of vandalism and protests since Firebrands infiltrated the area in hopes of breaking the mandate on religious freedom. Talks are ongoing between members of the ruling council over whether the Firebrands should be treated as a zealous ideological movement akin to faith, though complications have arisen recently when a captured Firebrand confessed that they were looking into rumors of Chelaxian plans to retake Khari
Firebrands wrote:
Rahadoum’s Pure Legion rigorously enforces the nation’s Laws of Mortality, imprisoning, exiling, or executing preachers who violate its prohibitions on proselytizing. A distinguished debate club in the city of Manaket called the Roosters’ Perch recently spent several fraught weeks debating the moral merits of these punishments.


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keftiu wrote:
vyshan wrote:
Plus coffee is still very western. Looks to all the coffee I consumed as Arthur Morgan in RDR2 :P
Coffee-drinking began in the Middle East and spread into Africa long before it hit Europe or any cowboy's boots touched North America - I think you're doing it a disservice by writing it off here! Anything 'foreign' enough to have been condemned to the Pope as a "Muslim drink" could hardly ever be Western in my eyes.

Oh I am not writing it off. Just the opposite. I was reminded of how well it fits in with the western genre in general so it is one of those things that fits overall both in blending western and eastern garundi aesthetics. I am agreeing with you. :)


NoxiousMiasma wrote:
There's actually very little in the way of Mwangi aesthetics in Alkenstar for one very simple reason - the bloody enormous mountain range in the way. It increases the effective distance between the Impossible Lands and the Mwangi Expanse from "right next to each other" to "long and incredibly difficult mountain crossing, or long and incredibly dangerous underground travel". Makes immigration a little difficult!

Yea, I knew about the mountain range but wasn't quite sure if there would be or wouldn't be. Humans and other ancestries are pretty well travelled so I figured there might be some but okay.

NoxiousMiasma wrote:
As for a more blended aesthetic, how about waistcoats with back panels of Jalmeray silks (perhaps in the style of watered silks, or shot silk with a pattern), or a fashion for skirts printed with Katapeshi techniques? From Nex, there might be enchanted fabrics, like the glamourweave of Eberron, or strange, custom-built fleshwarp pets (definitely not also designed as scrying targets, oh no!). Geb mostly exports food, so I'd expect their cultural influence to be more in the direction of "default staple grains" rather than more overt blending.

ah, the silk and other clothing from nearby lands and fashion I think can work. One thing I do want to do is making the various NPCs less white looking.

NoxiousMiasma wrote:
The Impossible Lands book also mentions people in Alkenstar City having couscous and green tea for breakfast, which suggests North African culinary stylings. The mentions of elaborate coffee rituals during Surgetime also makes me think of Turkish coffee - actually, considering how into coffee and tea Alkenstar is, going for a very coffeehouse-and-cafe style dining style seems appropriate. Maybe add some flatbread, yogurt, and richly flavoured stews (not too capsaicin-spicy though - I would bet the Brighite lot sort "enough spice to make you cry" onto the "illogical foods" list)

Oh yea, that works. I do like food here being different and north african / middle eastern helps sell things. having the food at the saloons be like this and dropping the whiskey for teas I think would be cool. Or maybe I can keep the whiskey as one of the dwarven influences?

Plus coffee is still very western. Looks to all the coffee I consumed as Arthur Morgan in RDR2 :P

Alkenstar should also have a bunch of dwarven influences from Dongun Hold, so I should double check the sections on Dongun Hold to see how it is.


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Arkat wrote:

Why the heck does Brigh care about alcohol??

It isn't like clockwork things can get drunk.

:eyeroll:

I'm not sure even androids can get drunk.

To note this is specifically the Alkenstari Brighite church's view, the Goddess may or may not care at all. but it is such a fun detail that I think helps makes things neat. Saloons that are tea houses.

Impossible Lands says this:

Impossible Lands wrote:
Alcohol isn’t commonly consumed by more traditional Alkenstari. The influence of Brighite philosophy, promulgated by widespread distribution of the Brighite text Logic of Design, has led to the categorization of food and drink into logical and illogical groups. In Alkenstar Brighite thought, alcohol, which reduces precision and lucidity, is an illogical beverage, while coffee and tea, as drinks that give energy and alertness, are considered logical drinks. The famed Alkenstar ice wine is produced almost exclusively for export to Geb and very rarely consumed in the city. Visitors and recent migrants aren’t expected to abstain and can purchase a wide range of liquid refreshments in Alkenstar’s many taverns and taphouses; in all these establishments, Donguni soldiers drink on the house, in recognition of their invaluable contributions to the city’s foundation and defense.

The book also describes the different tea and coffee practices for Smokeside and skyside. with different sorts of teas and teawear. It also mentions that Geb exports various teas to Alkenstar which is neat.

I do plan to use this because it is neat.


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Also there are many more divine beings then full fledged gods that grant powers, ie the empyreal lords, green men, the infernal dukes, demon lords, asura ranas, Pyschopomp Ushers, etc.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:

I wouldn't say everybody in Rahadoum is a misotheist, it's just that this is the official policy of the state. Most people who actually live in Rahadoum likely fall into the Irreligious category, since they have less reason to think about religion because they live in a place where it's largely absent.

Like Rahadoumi academic institutions are making significant progress in medicine, alchemy, architecture, and various sciences so they're not spending all their time trying to keep wrongthink from getting over the border. Mostly they are just living their lives the best they can in the environment they find themselves in.

The main body doing this is their state inquistors, the Pure Legion who are answerable to the Laws of Mortality. They oppose all prostlyization, confescate all religious books and items and regularly check in on people arriving at ports to ensure they aren't religious and if they are to take away their items. Their main HQ does house a bunch of forbidden books, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did book burnings. Punishment of being religious is harsh starting at fines and imprisoment and going up from there for being religious.

I don't know how the various academics regard the pure legion.


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As this thread is about the Laws of Mortality which govern the anti-theistic/religion oppressing nation of Rhadoum it should be noted that not all atheists like Rhadoum whose laws explictly oppress religion and ban it all within their borders, including good religions like Desna, Shelyn, Sarenrae, Caydan Caillian, all Empyreal lords, Millani, and so many others. They don't just want to live and let live, but the governmnt of Rahadoum cracksdown on religious people of all stripes from Asmodus followers to Shelyn followers.

Thing is not all Atheists or Alatrists if we want to be technical are like this. The Prophets of Kallistrade have a number of atheists in their ranks, as well as faithful since that philosophy is a non-theistic philosophy. Likewise in Bachunan in Tian Xia, another land where atheists are common don't seem to hate religion considering that the current government has lossened things upp and a number of older traditions have flourished alongside atheism.

There is also the Pyschopomp usher Phlegyas who is there to offer respite to atheists. She knows it is shocking for them and helps them along which I like. but then again I am biased as I love all the Ushers.


So I am planning an outlaws of Alkenstar Game. Now Alkenstar has a lot of Victorian steampunk / wild west aesthetics Which I do like. I do like the cowboys, saloons, ranchers, airships, etc. But what I want to do is have more aesthetics of the region tie into the fact it is in eastern Garund, it lays between Nex and Geb, and travel to Jalmaray or further afield to Vudran or the Mwangi expanse is possible. So I want to add these elements to Alkenstar to make it more fitting to the region it is.

One thing that the books do talk about is how Alkenstari don't really drink Alcohol all that much due to the influence of the Church of Brigh but they do consume lots of Tea. Which is something I do plan to use.

Still I am curious what other ways one can improve the aesthetics of Alkenstar to have more garundi, vurudni, dwarven, mwangi and so on that fit the region. advice is welcomed. :)


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Jerdane wrote:

Of course, a lot of things in politics and warfare do not operate on pure logic. Sometimes a country (either it's leader or it's populace) can let hubris, fear, or anger get the best of them and get into a war that a more objective observer would consider unwise. They also might start an unwise war if their knowledge of the situation is incorrect, either through poor intelligence or outright disinformation from their enemies.

As an example, maybe the leader of Qadria is so proud that he thinks he can conquer Taldor or at least take enough territory to cover himself in glory and convinces his superiors in the empire to allow it by staging a false flag operation that makes it seem like Taldor attacked first. Suddenly, Qadria is in a war they might well lose.

The satrap wants a war, it is the Padishah emperor who wants peace currntly.


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Castilliano wrote:

Even spellcheck doesn't recognize misotheism and who knows what "acknowledge exist, but ignore-ism" is called, so Paizo went with the closest common category.

According to wikipedia the term would be Alatrism.

Alatrism or alatry (Greek: from the privative ἀ- + λατρεία (latreia) = worship) is the recognition of the existence of one or more gods, but with a deliberate lack of worship of any deity. Typically, it includes the belief that religious rituals have no supernatural significance and that gods ignore all prayers and worship.


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The Raven Black wrote:
After having misread a description of Gatewalkers as an escort quest AP, I now demand an escort AP. With the long-awaited attending LO book : Dancing Halls of Golarion.

Isn't an Escort Quest basically the plot of Jade Regent or are you talking about the courtesan type of escort?


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Trip.H wrote:

Still wonder if that "feeds atheists to Groteus to weaken him" thing was ever declared non-cannon. Or the secret vault of mortal soul gems she's got stashed away. Again, just about every rule she imposes, she herself has broken the moment she thought that she has something to gain.

I wonder if James Jacobs can clear that up and any other issues you seem to have?


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Mangaholic13 wrote:

So... Am I the only one that finds it hypocritical of Rahadoum treats the gods as tyrants

AND YET THEY PRACTICE SLAVERY!?

Gods may not be allowed to be tyrants, but mortals can be tyrants!

also if the sun is tied to Sarenrae, then they should be plotting to do second darkness but bigger. ie blow it up death to sarenrae. if they want to oppose Caydan cailan they should implement total prohibition on booze. Also ban all sex, romance, art, and passion to stop Shelyn. Ban anything to do with undeath and disease to stop Urgathoa, ban all infernal stuff to stop Asmodeus, be a ruthless industrialist to oppose Gozreh but also be a a breaker of laws and supporter of thieves but a supporter in a way that also has lots of punishments so that you don't help out either Norgobor or Abadar. so on and so on for all the gods.


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Yakman wrote:
So... where are we thinking Galt comes in? They are kind of a low-key powerhouse with a big population and what one should assume to be a pretty strong baseline economy, albeit one devastated - but recovering - from a near century of mismanagement.

maybe galt now that they did french revolution will do the napoleonic empire and try to conquer parts of Taldor, the river Kingdoms and Andoran?


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Its also important to remember that Qadira is part of the Padishah empire of Kelesh. It is a satrapy after all. If the Satrap got the war he wanted it could be just a frontier conflict with just the forces of Qadira to wage war. Or it could be with the full might of the Keleshite Empire an empire that dwarfs taldor and cheliax, and probably even if both were combined together it still would dwarf them in size. Though admitedly a good portion of it is a massive desert, but still.


Airships exist in Alkenstar. In Skyside they have a region called Pilot's square. Ustalav has been creating stasian spooky airships as well. The crew of the Zoetrope of Howl the Wild had an airship that they used to travel.

Though the most common mode of travel is via beast of burden I imagine followed by ship.


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Arkat wrote:
vyshan wrote:
So basically Aroden was being arrogant when he proclaimed himself as the god of humanity when most didn't see him as the god of humanity?

Aroden actually declared himself as the god of humanity??

This is the first time I'm hearing that.

Well then if he didn't declare it, then did the humans of tian-xia or casmeron, or Arcadia, of southern Garund, etc all accept him as the God of Humanity during his time.

If he was the god of all humans then shouldn't he have had churches and influence throughout the world wherever humans were being their patron god, similar how torag is the patron god of Dwarves?


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So basically Aroden was being arrogant when he proclaimed himself as the god of humanity when most didn't see him as the god of humanity?


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So I am curious. Aroden has been described as the god of Humanity. But what I am curious is did this include all of humanity, was his church as the church of humanity everywhere. Ie did he have churches in Arcadia, Garund, Casmeron, Tian Xia, and so on? or was he only the god of the humans of the inner sea, so just for garundi, keleshites, taldans, kellids, varisians, etc but not the people of Casmeron, arcadia, tian xia, etc? or did he proclaim himself the god of humanity when the majority of humans were like "nah thats just another lie. He isn't the god of humanity. we don't know who the man is."


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I wonder if James Jacobs or another staff could help clear up any of your issues or concerns regarding Pharasma?


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Also how much of this information about quintessence and merging with the plane is even known by the people in Golarion?


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Virellius wrote:

Rakshasa and Asura are in real myth quite similar or intertwined in some ways, to my limited understanding. I admit I know next to nothing about them. I DO know the backwards handed cats are from an episode of Kolchak: the Night Stalker.

Asura and Velstracts BOTH being formerly from Hell makes me wonder if a Planer Adventures 2e book would be worth making. LOTS of interesting stuff out there; they could even save room and not touch on the elemental planes since RoE did that very well.

Maybe then we could also get some more lore on Peri and Garuda, the other 'oh right you exist' outsiders.

A book covering the different planes would be cool, espeically with how things are evolving away from DnD and its particular designs. To tie this back to the vesltrecs, I think such a thing would be great for an exploration of the Netherworld. We also have a couple of ancestries that either come from the Netherworld or are tied there like the Kayals or the Wayalangs, and some nephalim.


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It really sounds like people just want to become Asuras and rage against the gods and support in the utter corruption and destruction of all the creations of the gods.

Also if they hate the gods so much, I presume that you are making a special rahadoumi calander that doesn't use the same months? after all the months are named after gods.


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The asura and the Asura Rana sound like a much better fit for how some people view Pharasma. They want to destroy and corrupt everything that the gods had a hand in making, and used to be Lawful Evil being the former rulers of hell. They hate the gods and want them all to be destroyed. They adore corrupting and blaspheming against the gods and ruining and corrupting their works.


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Virellius wrote:
Eeveegirl1206 wrote:

The Velstracs are lucky they received an expanded write up in City out of Time.

Compare that to the Asura Rana or Rakesha Immortals which have nothing on them.

I'll be honest, I was actually really surprised they didn't get anything in Impossible Lands. It seemed like the perfect place to touch on the new/updated lore for authentic Rakshasa, and I know even less about the Asura.

Both of them are found in in the kingdoms of Vudra. I do agree that having something in the Impossible lands for cults in Jalamaray would have been a nice touch. Just another reason to want a lost omen book in Casmeron.

Asuras are interesting in that they actually used to be the rulers of Hell before Asmodeus and his devils took it over and remade it in their image. They do still have pockets of Hell that they control. Despite the Ranas being powerful enough to grant divine magic, they hate the gods and want to see them and their followers brought lo and destroyed.


zimmerwald1915 wrote:
The Four Queens of the lower Sellen consist of Kyonin, Galt, Taldor, and Andoran, bound in no formal commitment but widely seen as aligned.

Four Queens? Kyonin has a queen, Galt and Andoran do not, and Taldor has a grand princess or empress depending on the writer(not sure why they are an empire but no emperor/empress). Or has Andoran and Galt became a constitutional monarchy, if so who are those lovely ladies? :P


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James Jacobs wrote:
vyshan wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Eeveegirl1206 wrote:
Is that why Nethys write up in Divine Mysteries doesn’t lean into the older lore about his “madness” through he clearly does see the world through a different lens then most people.
Yup; this is an excellent example of us keeping an established element but treating it more responsibly.
So I am curious. I know you are a big fan of Lovecraftian themes and stories. Yet one of the big things with Lovecraftian and eldritch stories is madness, going insane, and things beyond man's comprehension. The great old ones and outer gods were mentioned in Divine Mysteries, so it makes me wonder how they and their cults will be handled in the future. :)

For some examples of Lovecraftian themes I've personally put into 2nd edition adventures and how we handle those sorts of things, I'd point you toward:

** spoiler omitted **

The basic version is: Same as always, but with a combination of content warnings about mental health themes as needed, and simply by avoiding printing things like "madman" or "crazy cultists" or other outdated turns of phrase. Cosmic horror and psychological horror aren't leaving Pathfinder products, though.

Cool. cool. This is something that has in general I wondered about. Cosmic horror and lovecraftian elements are something I like. But some of the language that comes with it, has as someone who is autistic always felt odd. Still glad to see it and I shall check those parts out. :)

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