vyshan's page

So for me as I am working on my own prep for this as this one grabbed my interest I am doing two things.

The first big change I am doing is I am making the big bad tied to blight, specifically the blight of Aryzul as the Verduran forest does have ties to the plane of wood, and trying to destroy and corrupt the forest even as they claim to be doing it all to save it(which they are not doing in the slightest).

The second is I am making the Lumber Consortium a secondary main antagonist. They are going to play a much bigger role, as well as Andoran politics will play a much bigger role.

I hope that we get some stuff for the other schools like the 2 gebbite ones, the acadamae of Korvosa, the Alabaster academy of Kintargo, etc, even if they aren't the focus.

During elections, Government workers called Talliers are dispatched to all the local townships and multiple in any large city. Stalls are set up with a tallier on one side, behind a thick curtain, and a switch system. The individual Goes into the booth in privacy, and flips switches indicated for their chosen candidates/laws. The Tallier watches those results from the other side, noting or Tallying, the votes. a Tallier may not discuss any results with anyone until they deliver them to Their central authority.

Because Andoran takes it's democratic status so seriously, Talliers are both protected by and serve under threat of death. Anyone who messes with them, can be put to death, as they have stolen the voices of unknown fellow Andoran Citzens. But, a Tallier who is found to have been fraudulent is sentence to death under the same logic.

There are also the Mounted talliers who ride along roads far from towns and cities looking for those who couldn't vote.

The more urbanized areas where literacy is more guaranteed have paper ballots, but it's still over seen by the talliers.

I don't recall anything about Talliers in the Andoran books. So curious whats the source. :)

I wonder what ancestries and heritages might come along with an Arcadia or Casmaron book?

So what I decided on is that the each town is a riding, with the main one being Bellis sort of as a de facto capital of the Shire.

still not sure how the elections themselves work. Would it be similar to a medieval / renaissance swiss Landsgemeinde? or something else? I think making them similar to the Landsgemeinde might fit in with the democracy and give players something to do as they are from what I understand massive town halls held outdoor, a form of direct democracy.

I didn't know about the guilds. How many guilds are there in Andoran and what guilds aside from the Lumber consortium might play a role in the Verduran forest?

To be honest, I'm agog that this piece of information was cut for space. This is a detail that the PCs will absolutely obsess over; "who killed Valenar and what is their plot" is something they as players need to find out at some point, even if it is just a random grudge. And as a DM, I needed to know if this dangling plot thread is something I need to hold onto because it would come back in book 3.

I still very much enjoy the campaign, but I hope editors make different value judgements in the future. Prismati or Flyting could have been greatly simplified or cut entirely to make space for this kind of important information.

Still also feels weird to have a canonically level 15 druid get oneshot by a level 8 monster? I fully thought that there HAD to be a bigger plot because of that. Like maybe Valenar had been brainwhammied by Ayrzul or something? I love the idea of this being random pettiness, but the execution was fumbled here.

I agree with all of this.

In regards to Ayrzul. I am 100% using tying that into the death. As I want the whole blighted corruption thing of Ayrzul to play a more dramatic role for I am changing Ruzadoya from a graveknight(aka an Undead being that most druids should logically not follow) to a champion of Zibik that has been infected and corrupted by Ayrzul's blight.

As for who did this I am not sure. Who do you think would make good candiates? Someone from the Blackwood Moot? Lumber Consortium? Zibik cultist? something else?

it might be interesting to have the PCs infiltrate the Lumber Consortium's HQ in Oregent, where they are fish-out-of-water in a big human city.

That is a little bit far from the Verduran Forest which is where the story plot points are in.

Anyways some thoughts I did have but curious what other GMs have of them; especially as I am going to be a new GM :)

The first is to use the three canon Lumber Consortium NPCs, with Gaval Deegs Agraive as the main bad guy. The other two being Choms "Chomper" Snikt, and Lumber Magnate Ulfas Blust. Deegs in particular wants to dominate the forest and for Bellis to be another falcon's hollow or Oregent. Establishing a monopoly and using the chaos that happens following the Greenwood Massacre and Ruzadoya's take over of the Lodge to strengthen the position of the Consortium among andoran's settlements in the forest.

The second is to tie them into some of the flashpoints in book 1. they are already there with Grove of Tears(I am going to switch the person from deegs to Choms or Ulfas Blust), but also fallen friends.

The bigger question is how to tie them more into the plot after this.

I know that I want to include Andoran Election shenniganary and thus having the PCs work to get the Forester Endowment faction's policies pushed through as they are a political faction aimed at protecting the forest from the Lumber consortium, they are in Augustana but the faction feels right at home with the Verduran Forest.

I wonder how easy or difficult would it be for the players to also be part of the troupe performing the production instead of just producing it.

Like the presumed reason Cheliax and Andoran aren't going to go to war is "The threat Tar-Baphon poses to all mortal life". Cheliax probably isn't gearing up for that war since they need to lick their wounds a bit after the last decade, but there's also tension in how Cheliax wants to avoid Hell's promised bargain of "let us bring in devils whenever we want, and we'll supply you with troops". The more active Cheliax gets in preparing for war with their neighbor to the East, the more forceful Hell is in bargaining. So whatever preparations are afoot, they're probably low key since "we can field the armies of hell if we need to" is a decent ace in the hole.

Tar-Baphon is there but they are gearing up for war. At least on Andoran's side. It would be rather foolish of Cheliax to ignore the build up of their probably greatest enemy.

Unlike Taldor, Andoran is not a signatory of the Treaty of the Wildwood, and its logging operations not officially under the Lodge’s protection. Those operations have rapidly expanded in recent months to meet the ravenous shipbuilding industry’s demands, driven by growing fears of imminent war with Cheliax

One thing I noticed that is a plot point in a number of books is that Cheliax and Andoran are gearing up for war. Part of the background tension in Wardens after all is that there is a high demand of wood throughout Andoran to support preparing for war, mostly ships but also i presume spears, and bows.

I wonder what Cheliax is doing? I presume much of the same?

I presume that till either Battle Cry or the War of Immortals we won't learn if this cold war turns hot or not.

Ooh this looks to be fun. I already have character concepts.

I was surprised that Yelayne wasn't mentioned in faith as she seems like a shoe in for a theater game :D

The whispering way isn't really a school. But what is a school in the similar vein are the schools in Geb.

Geb has two famous Necromantic wizarding schools the Ebon Mausoleum and the Mortuarium. The Mortuarium specializes in arcane resurrection and arcane biology. In 1e it was a subschool of necromancy but here it would work just as being part of the school. The ebon Mausoleum on the other hand also is a school where blood lords are trained.

The two schools are in different cities, Ebon Mausoleum is in Mechitar, and the Mortuarium is in Yled. I don't know if there are any college sports in Geb but I like to imagine that if their are then these two have a big college rivalry.

Anyone have any thoughts or ideas here? :)

Hello,

So I am wondering how do Andoran Elections work and do councilor areas get decided. From the 1e book on Andoran government a single term is five years and they are in Almas twice a year once on the 15 Erastus and 15 Abadius.

But how are the elections run? do they use paper ballots, do they raise hands or speak aloud which candidate they support. Are they secret votes? Who is allowed to vote?

How do the various churches interact with elections? are elections held at temples such as Abadar, Erastil or Cayden Ceillien?

There seems to be some factions, at least in Augustana like the Forester's Endowment but I don't know if they are local to Augustana or if national. The forester's Endowment seems like a natural fit for those in the Verduran forest.

another thing is how are the Constituencies decided upon? as an example, according to the 1e Andoran Book Bellis has 2 councilors, but does that mean that the town votes for 2 members or that they represent different constituencies and that they stay mostly in Bellis?

So curious if anyone has any answers or thoughts here?

Hello,

So I am thinking of running this in the future at some point and one thing I was thinking of doing was to expand on the Lumber Consortium. Deegs Agraive is one of the big wigs, in particular he is a gavel of the consortium. So I was thinking he would be a secondary antagonist, a counter part to Ruzadoya. The idea being to show why the treaty of wildwood is good for all.

There is at least one encounter already with him, grove of tears, and tying them in with fallen friends doesn't seem that difficult.

What I am wondering is beyond those stuff what are some good ways to expand on the Lumber Consortium as a secondary antagonist. I was thinking maybe to have the players participate or deal with an Andoran Election.

I wonder if anyone has done this and any thoughts on this idea?

So I wonder what would make a good thing for these two events? are there any society adventures that we could draw upon or any details that we can look at?

Ooh this is a fun character but question. How do you pronounce his name?

I would assume that a large portion of Ravouneli soldiers and sailors were stationed on ships in on the Kintargo side of the Arch of Aroden, and those ships were likely staffed almost entirely with Ravouneli crew.

Like I don't think it's normal in a fantasy world to take soldiers from Ravounel and station then near Isger or vice versa. Garrisons largely stay close to their homes during nominal peacetime, since that's the easiest way to keep them fed.

If there was a particular Ravouneli officer who climbed the ladder to be stationed elsewhere, the independence of their homeland was assuredly politically inconvenient for them and they were expected to declare their allegiance to Cheliax and will always be looked at with more suspicion than before.

Wouldn't it be in Thrune's interests for their soldiers to be moved around. So the Isgeri are stationed in Ravounel before the revolution and vice versa so they don't grow loyal to the region of their birth? This is a common tactic of empires after all.

When this came up in my Ruby Phoenix game, they had some very rich soil brought in for the leshy to put their feet/roots/whatever in and absorb nutrients from. Add some bottled sunlight and some water, and you've got a feast.

Oh that works well, thanks everyone :)

Question: how does Elixir of Gender Transformation and Serum of Sex Shift change differ from one another?

also happy pride!

So when looking through Wardens of the Wildwood there is a feast at the begining during the gala. It made me wonder about what sort of foods would be during a feast including Leshys, Ghoran, Consreu and other sorts of plant creatures? They are plant creatures but I imagine druids and others would know how to treat them during a feast.

So any ideas?

This is a fun little story.

Yea I am wondering about this as well. I haven't found anything on them either.

I wonder if there will be a new god of civilization. Since the only thing Abadar cares about and focuses on is basically banking and not all the other community aspects of civilization.

If you were looking for something for a MMORPG the issue is that it lacks the tabletop thing of dms and story telling IMO.

Now something like Neverwinter Nights and their Persistant Worlds, that could work as people can create custom content and have DMs run things. I am actually a member of a PW for Ravenloft which we are still running and plenty of players. Something like that could work.

My guess is something coming in the Character Guide that comes out later this year.

Do they have any magic to help here? Not sure if there are any spells that allows to dim the power of the sun temporarily in a region. Perhaps that could do it?

Also there is always secret tunnels and passages between estates and buildings.

So I am wondering with the changes to archons will the empyreal lords who are archons get updated to this new design? I hope so as I love them.

One thing is how do the clerics of Asmodedus have spells. Sine the queen outlaws slavery and that is against Asmodedus edicts, it’s his anathema to free a slave, singular. So should they not all be fallen clerics?

I'm intrigued by this new deity Aleph. Finally getting a non-evil deity of darkness (and maybe shadow?) would be nice.

There is Nocticula, who in 2e is CN. But another would be great for Nidal. I rather like the idea of playing characters who are Nidalese, who are proud of their culture, but also want to turn it away from zon-kuthon to another shadow and darkness deity.

I wonder if we weren't limited to just 20. How would people define the pantheons of the gods.

I am fine with Gorum. Of the gods, he is one i never quite cared for. Though I wonder what will replace him for places that did worship him? Maybe more regional war gods?

I worry that Urgathoa beefing it leaves Team Bad Guy a little empty in the Core 20. Asmodeus, Lamashtu, Norgorber, Zon-Kuthon, and an imprisoned Rovagug is kind of a thin rogue's gallery.

Losing a more 'heroic' deity feels more interesting.

I wonder if Rovagug would drop out of the 20 core gods. Not that he isn't a big deal in the setting he is, but he isn't really one that players should be worshiping and one that basically is outlawed for good reason everywhere. I could make a follower of Nogober, Urgathoa, Zon-Kuthon, Asmodeus, or even Lamashtu that could be played and part of a group. Might be tricky and difficult to work, but it is possible. Rovagug on the other hand I don't think can really be done.

and to me the core 20 should be deities that the players look at having as patrons.

For me, one idea I got recently thanks to all of this is that Hell should be organized into the Infernal Bureaucracy. While yes we are ditching alignments, I still feel that an evil Bureaucracy is much more fitting for Hell then the other evil planes. after all when I think of Red tape that fits hell.

Plus with the abolishment of alignment, though still keeping Holy v Unholy, there could be "good" things that the bureaucracy does. After all even in Golarian, the Church of Asmodeus does run orphanages in Isger. Thats were many devil nuns come from. Its one of my favorite little details too and its why IMO the church is actually popular in Isger, perhaps even more so than in Cheliax itself. Since the church protected the people and following the devestation of the Goblin Wars, it helped take care of the people.

So to go back to the Infernal Bureaucracy, I imagine there is normally a lot of red tape, a lot of waiting time, and being redirected to other ministries and departments for most people. Which is where the clerics and other divinly inspired characters come in, since due to being a divine character they have the ear of those higher up and can probably expidate things, for the right offering and price.

This also opens up plenty of plot hooks for asmodean characters, both divine and not for dealing with petitioners who might beg of them to do actions to beesch the bureacrats in the infernal hirearchy, who agree but only if they do X quest.

One thing I hope is that by not having alignments we can get away from the chromatic == evil and metalic == good but have dragons be their own interesting characters.

Make it a pantheon. Call it the Infernal Bureaucracy, or something similar. I dig it.

I like this idea but without killing Asmodeus. Instead of making Hell just a copy of the dnd hells with the Archdevils. With there being a bunch of different positions with length titles like the Nessian accountant of infernal warmachines. Honestly the more I think of this, I think this is how I plan to run Hell in the future.

One thing I am curious about is who could replace some of the other suggestions floated around? people have talked about Arezani or Tar-baphon replacing Urgathoa, and various beings replacing Norgorber. But what about what could replace Gozreh or Gorum or Sarenrae?

Not sure on Gorum or Sarenrae but for Gozreh what if instead of a single nature god, you have several, ie all the elemental lords as mentioned in rage of elements?

In regards to father skinsaw, one of the things with it is that aspect seems almost like a copy of ajids aspect, heck they are both called father though in Ajids' case its Father Flense. His deific obidence even requires multilation.

Now I like Father Skinsaw / Ajids, they make great bad guys. However they don't fit the other aspects, and like others said, I got to imagine that the churches following the other aspects are annoyed at the cult.

HenshinFanatic wrote:

vyshan wrote:

I wonder if Norgober dies and is broken up to different Gods?

Idea for this scenario; Nor: The Reaper of Reputation, Gor: The Skinsaw Man, Ber: Master of the Blackfingers.

Personally, I think Gor should be the Grey Master with it being revealed that in fact Thamir was Father Skinsaw.

If I was to split up Norgorber into Four different deities. I would probably do something like this:

• Blackfingers: Vorasha
  
• Father Skinsaw: Ajids
  
• Gray Master: Thamir
  
• Reaper of Reputation: Braismois
  

At least that is how I am currently looking at it. if one has other ideas, that would be cool too.

I wonder if Norgober dies and is broken up to different Gods?

One thing I want to know about is why is Isger not part of Cheliax but instead just a vassal state. Considering the length of time that passed since it was brought into the Chelish empire, shouldn't it be part of Cheliax. So the question of why isn't it part of it would be nice to know.

If I was spitballing, I'd suggest she might create a more panentheistic Church of Irrisen where the traditions of Irrisen and Tsarist Russia blend so the Irriseni can revere a more informal spirituality. Especially since while Baba Yaga doesn't want to be a god, she sounds like the jealous type. There might be a few patron Empyreal Lords or Monitors, but Baba Yaga might draw a firm line at true Gods with the capital G. I would suggest perhaps a more secular witch cult, if not worshipping her then at least modelled on her ethos, but the Winter Witches don't really approve of her either and consider her the Fraud Queen so it sounds like she doesn't have much to do with them either.

I do wonder how things might be changed for Christianity trying to adapt to the various stuff that exists in pathfinders, from actual demons and devils to angels to magic and so on.

As Far as The Queen of Iressin's converting her country to Christianity I doubt that will happen as the authors do no want real world religions to be in their product that are direct copies of real world religions.

I doubt that even if there was a church in Irrisen it would have lead to conversions. There might be a church in the capital for the new queen, maybe it is even made out of ice to shine with light? One could be quite creative with the magic I imagine.

I wouldn't imagine that it would be in a product, though that makes me wonder why they chose to pick a real person who is considered a Saint by the Russian Orthodox Church to be Queen? It just feels like something that has to addressed since she was a real person.

I imagine that with the dethronement of the White Witches some goodly deities of the northern reaches are picking up steam. Alglenweis is a deity who had a witch cult in the Sarkoris Scar and is the goodly daughter of Kostchtchie—seems like she'd be popular among winter witches that are not affiliated with the White Witches. Pulura, empyreal lord of the northern lights, is another one who could very well be popular.

Alglenweis works pretty well, especially since Kostchtchie is IIRC based on Koschei the deathless of slavic folklore. Looking at the pathfinder wiki, I think that Tolc cold also work, especialy since the wiki says that he is the sworn enemy to Kostchtchie.

but I am sure that there are other divine beings be they minor gods, major gods, demi-gods, empyreal lords or so on that can work.

So something I am wondering about and I am not sure how it is properly addressed and that is Religion in Irrisen. The world guide mentions that the main religions are Lamashtu and Zon-Kuthun and while both are cool, neither gives me a vibe for Irrisen IMO, YMMV.

another thing is that Queen Anastasia of Irrisen would be a devoted follower of Orthodox Christianity though I don't think we have any rules for playing a cleric of Jesus, but if she is Queen then I imagine that she would try to build orthodox churches in her capital. I don't know if that is addressed at all in any of the books; nor how good it would be for her to do this. So I am curious how this is handled. Curious how others have handled this.

So I am curious what sort beings would be best for Irrisen and religion be it the big gods, minor gods, various empyeral lords, eldest or other divine beings. as well as how other GMs handle Queen Anastasia and Christianity.

Ah eberron, one of my favorite DnD settings(I would be using fate for it instead of pathfinder/dnd.) I love the setting. Anyways here are my ideas and suggestions. Keep in mind i haven't ran this AP

book 1: Your idea of tying it into the war is good. Of course most of the ghosts are the enemies in this adventure. I would make sure you play up that, or perhaps they just wanted to be criminals. they shouldn't be too sympathetic.

Book 2: while it is true that warforged are more accepted and common. There are a few things to play with her. First is that a good number of people don't like them and hate them. They only appeared at the end of the last war. If Leipidstat or what ever is taking its place suffered a heavy assult by warforged during the war, they might have reasons to hate them.

Second only house Carrnith knows how to make warforged, and even then it is illegal for them to do so. It is not illegal for others to do so, but as only Carrnith knows how to; their results are likely to be not as good as carrnith, and could result in a frankenstien monster.

Book 3: the biggest issue in Eberron relating to werewolves is that they have been wiped out by the silver flame by the present. of course, you could have a few surviving in the woods which means people would not believe in them till they started to see them for themselves.

Book 4: I would advise against the mournland, instead their are plenty of other eldtrich monsters to use in Eberron. You have the dark six, the Daelkyr, the cult of the dragons below, and so on. Keep it in Karnath but use one of these guys instead. I myself would go with the cults of the dragon below and maybe the daelkyr as the entity they worship.

Book 5: teaming up with vampires to stop a killer, how could this be adapted... *looks to the king of Karnath that is trying to keep the next great war from happening* yea, this one is easy, either an agent of the king or Kaius himself. I would also throw out plenty of clues and red-hearings, make people question if it is the work of the blood of Vol or another nation.

Book 6: While you don't fight Tar-Baphon here, you do stop him from being released. From what it seems this should be easy to keep as it is.

From what I have read about the AP is that things are not as tied together as in other APs, for this matter I would use the order of the Emerald Claw as the big bad for the AP, with their leader being Tar-Baphon or his expy you are using.

Keep in mind they were once a respected knightly order in Karranth where they were the elite of the elite. Now though they are disgraced and tied to the Blood of Vol, and function as terrorists. It also has the effect that any Karranath Nationalists would be rather supportive of stopping them, for they are hated in Karrnath since they give a bad name to their kingdom.

I hope this gives you ideas and helps you out. :)

vyshan wrote:

I thought with paladins when law conflicted with goodness, goodness wins out over law? thus good>law, thus good for this campaign as you will be going screw the law but since the law is evil, it is okay for paladins to agree with that.

Depends ENTIRELY on the paladin. Paladins of Shelyn and Sarenrae would certainly go this route, but I doubt a paladin of Abadar or Irori would.

What of Paladins of Iomadea, I ask because if I was running this AP, I would have some cells or groups play up Iomadea's Chelixan heretiage. Not sure if that will be referenced in the AP but I would play that up for some people, especailly the more nationalistic members.

vyshan wrote:

In a more serious question: How difficult would it be if a PC was a member of a major noble house in Cheliax, or perhaps even from House Thune?

Being a member of a noble house is an option in the AP (It'll be part of the player's guide), but being a member of Thrune isn't. I suppose, actually, you COULD be... but you'd have to be an outcast, and that might stretch believability once the AP gets underway that the government doesn't track down your wayward character and accident them into the river.

Cool. Of course these sort of things is what make for interesting story telling. A distant thune cousin getting cought up in the rebellion, perhaps out of kindness or really believing it or perhaps out of a desire for power. Still interesting stories can come out of this.

I thought with paladins when law conflicted with goodness, goodness wins out over law? thus good>law, thus good for this campaign as you will be going screw the law but since the law is evil, it is okay for paladins to agree with that.

In a more serious question: How difficult would it be if a PC was a member of a major noble house in Cheliax, or perhaps even from House Thune?

Here is another question: Being that I am a polytheist IRL, why not be a polytheist in golarian; particularly for this AP. Why not have someone that worships both Iomadae and Caydian Calian, or all the good deties that have been mentioned here.

I like Iomadae because she was Cheliaxian before her ascension. I can see worshipers of her supporting a rebellion to bring the goodness that they know that exist in chelixans that Thune has smashed; and to turn the empire into well a good empire.

This will not be an "always happy revolution." There will be blood, and there will be some tough choices. Most of this stuff will be condensed into one adventure of course...

That makes me happy. :)

Also I wonder if the players can set the course of the revolution that is going on. For instance fighting to make Kintargo and the area its own independent nation, say like Andoran, or perhaps fight to redeem the name of Chelixans and fight to put a good empress on the throne of Cheliax or even turn it into a republic.

I hope this AP highlights the dark side of revolutions. You know reigns of terror, chaos, looting, and all that jazz that tends to come with revolutions.

It makes things more interesting. Since this is the Chaotic good AP this can show off the good side of the characters as well as the chaotic side.

What would the heroes/Heroines do if they see executions of nobles who benifited in some way from Thune's rule? let them be executed, support it, or stop them. What about someone from house Thune itself, who perhaps didn't agree with the devil worship, but because she is a member of House Thune, a mob forms to lynch her. Again, how do the heroes react.

A number of scenerios could form of how the heroes and heroines show off that they are good as well as prevent the revolution from going down a dark road.

As this would be a fantastical Earth, and more specifically the whole reign of winter has a lot of Slavic mythology elements, feel free to crib from that. Maybe a few of the soldiers being surprised that the legends are real, some not caring, some disbelieving that you are not-human. Of course it could be also that an Aasamir might be viewed as an angel sent from Heaven by God, or that you are demons from hell.

As for magic, the late Victorian age actually was a height for occult groups, this is when the famous order of the golden dawn existed. Perhaps the clerics are viewed as holy mystics of God.