vyshan's page

I am pretty sure there are newspapers and tabloids in Alkenstar.

Personally, I feel the Shoanti haven't gotten much love in 2E, so I would definitely appreciate them getting more than just a few lines of description.

They got quite a bit of love in the second book of triumph of the tusk. including backmatter! :)

I would really love to have a Jadwiga Heritage for humans and a Winter Witch class Archetype for the Witch.

We have that sort of.

There is the pre-remaster, winter-touched heritage for humans that explictly calls out the Jadwiga. Baba Yaga is a Patron as the slience in snow both of which seem fitting for witches. though we don't have a specific winter witch archetype. So that would be cool to have.

Since we have Revenge of the Rune lords coming up, I have wondered if we will get one so we can see more of New Thassilon. All the ruins of Thassilon sound cool.

As for Ulfen Land, I would love to see more especially with the death of Gorum. That has to have a major upset to their religious beliefs.

In regards to religion. I always love regions having their own pantheons where various divine beings are all worshipped together. For the Ulfen this could include the various Aesir Monitors, but also Desna, several giant deities like Skode and Aegirran.

Also I am wondering how much influence the Russians have on Irriseni culture. I certainly hope that the White soldiers didn't bring their homophobia, racism, anti-semitism and more that was prelevant in the white army and white adminstrated regions during the civil war with them when they came to golarion.

I do like that they brought Ice Hokey though; the fact Irriseni didn't have Ice Hockey before is a crying shame! I wonder if that sport has spread to the Ulfen, as I got to imagine it should. So I wonder what other sorts of things like this got imported. Related I really want to learn more about Stasian technology that Anastasia is developing.

Like with the Ulfen, I too am curious for the religion of Irrisen. I want to know what gods besides Zon-Kuthon and Lamashtu are worshipped. While I do want to know if Russian Orthodox Christianity was established or not in the land(one of the NPCs in frosty mug is explictly the daughter of a russian priest), in part due to the russians but also due to the new queen; and also potentially any other real faiths like Islam or Judaism. but even beyond that their are plenty of people who wouldn't feel drawn to either Zon Kuthon or Lamashtu in Irrisen. Where are the Ice gods or gods of the hearth or giant gods.

So, folks over on the Inner Sea War speculation thread seem to think that the war will be modeled on WW I.

So follows a list of technical advancements that were in play at the time on Earth. (Golarion is a magic realm so one can assume that magical versions would have been developed.)

** spoiler omitted **

There’s more, but that’s all I can think of for now. Not everything I mentioned is strictly infrastructure.

The funny thing is that all of that, as in the non-magical version, can exist on Golarion because there are a bunch of Russians from 1918 in Irrisen. we know at least Irrisen has modern rifles one of the images in one of the pathfinder society adventures has a Mosin-Nagant rifle mentioned explictly. So the rest can be presumed that they might know about, plus the whole stassian technology queen Anastasia is creating.

vyshan wrote:

Curious why was there no mention of Lissala, the runelord goddess. She got an entry in divine mysteries and war of immortals suggests IIRC she is getting supporters, including non-evil ones.

Because...

** spoiler omitted **

Curious why was there no mention of Lissala, the runelord goddess. She got an entry in divine mysteries and war of immortals suggests IIRC she is getting supporters, including non-evil ones.

So now the good clerics and good people of Khari are being oppressed by anti-theists of Rahadoum

Got to suck for them to go from being oppressed by asmodeus to being oppressed by rahadoum.

But I am curious to see it in that ap.

Pretty sure that there is no lore reason, and no lore reason is coming as it is done that way purely for game balance reasons.

vyshan wrote:

I really want to know more about the greater Empire. the 1e book Qadira Jewel of the east really added a whole lot of details and fleshed out that satrapy and details on the Kelishites. Notably the Kelishite ethnicity is a delibertly constructed identity to bring about unity to the empire. There are six major ethnicities(Aishmayars, Althameri, Khattibi, Mideans, Susianams, Tzorehiyi) Each is associated with a virtue , and the kelishite identity as a whole is associated with Unity.

While it's 100% headcanon, I love the notion that Qadira is IT, and that this great empire barely even exists, having collapsed into feuding city-states, and being even more 'vaporware' than the 'great Taldan empire' (which itself has fragmented into several other countries).

Qadira talks all sorts of talk about how they are just the tip of a much, MUCH bigger spear, and have this 800 lb. gorilla backing them up, but they are just a last lingering echo of the empire's former glory, and it's such a successful smokescreen that the average citizen of Qadira (who, like most people in that day and age, will never travel more than a few days away from where they were born), *have no idea* that they are alone, and that there isn't some magical super-empire standing behind them.

I am in the exact opposite camp as you. I really like the empire of Kelesh from what little we have gotten of it and want to explore it more.

Absolutely agree that it would be cool for different human cultures/ethnic groups/nations to have a list of common anathema and edicts. Wouldn't necessarily have to be every single country/kingdom in the inner sea has its own, could be like "descendents of taldor" and like "the Sarkoris diaspora" and like "nomadic varisians" vs ustalav's settled varisians.

On the flipside, hard no from me for assigning physical and mental stats based on culture or ethnicity, even if they're only suggestions. Even leaving aside the implications, I'm sure the Brevic peasant shares more in common with a Taldan peasant than with a Brevic merchant or warrior, regardless of shared cultural values.

Yea. I think having like common values, and ethics for different cultures is cool and that can be reflected in ethics. Like for the river kingdoms you could have an edict and anathama based on the six river freedoms, while common andoran edicts could be inspired by the Common Rule guiding philosophy.

but attributes? no. that shouldn't be done.

Claxon wrote:

I personally think the developer commentary on the topic is....bad.

From a standpoint of "what is an ethnicity" the people of Cheliax definitely qualify as being their own ethnicity.

Purely based on the connections to Hell and Devils, Cheliax has a significant enough difference from other "Taldanes" to justify being considered their own ethnicity.

However, in terms of game mechanics and relevance that it has...I don't think it really matters.

120 years do not feel long enough to me to make the Chelaxians ethnically different from their neighbours, nor from what they were before (ie mostly Taldans).

Cheliax hasn't been part of Taldor for over 600 years. The even tongue conquest that separated cheliax from Taldor happened in 4081 AR. The current in game date is 4725 AR. that is if I did my math right 644 years of seperation. While yes the recent turn about and influence of Hell happened with the death of Aroden in 4640 AR is what lead to house Thune's victory, or about 85 years ago. My point was less this particular vibe and more the fact that over 600 years have passed since they were separated from Taldor.

Andoran and Galt while more recent, I can see them stressing their own identity to not be lumped in with the devil worshipers of Taldor or the corrupt nobility of Taldor.

Christopher#2411504 wrote:

There should be some "don't accept that nations left the Empire" Anathema on the Cheliax side. And some "support more nations breaking away from Cheliax" Edict on the Andorran side.

...These are matters of policy, not culture.

One could say the same thing about the non-human ethnicities and their popular edicts and anathamas too!

Casmaron is a huge continent and Kelesh is a sprawling empire. If you want similar variety in Avistan, you already have it: Taldans, Kellids, Varisians, Shoanti, Ulfen, Jadwiga, Varki, Iobarians...

I don't think treating the folk of Cheliax and Andoran as Taldans is any more dismissive than how the game acknowledges at least four distinct cultures that all get lumped under the umbrella of Mwangi.

Iobaria is part of Casmeron not Avistan IIRC.

As for the Mwangi, the Mwangi expanse book split them up into their own cultures. It is outsiders who consider them

The Ethnicities of Kelesh(not all of Casmeron just the empire) are btw split between the Kelishite and non-Kelishite.

Kelishite: Aishmayar, Althameri, Khattibi, Mideans, Susianams, Tzorehiyi. The Kelishite ethnicity is a delibertly constructed identity to bind the empire together.

Other: Amai Birtim, Beshzens, Jalunahs, Karas, Mishyrians, Ninshaburians, Qalahs,

the wiki suggests that Taldan culture is obssessed with Taldor, taldris, and all the goings on of Taldor. Which is something that isn't part of Chelixian, Andoran, or Galtan culture.

My thought was that 600 years plus the revolutions in Galt and Andoran would have lead to ethnogensis of the Chelixian, Andoran, and Galtan identies as separate from Taldan. And if Kelishite can be a constructed identity so could Andoran and Galtan.

So something I am wondering is why did Chelixian stop being an ethnicity. The empire of Cheliax split off from Taldor 600 to 700 years before the game's current era. That should be long enough to form their own identity and undergo ethnogensis. Likewise with the Andorans and Galtans, who due to their revolutions probably don't see themselves as either Chelixan or Taldane.

In the first edition 1e book for Qadira there is a total of 14 unique ethnic groups for the empire of Kelesh and that is just a part of Casmeron. And when I read that it made me wonder why aren't there more ethnicities for Humans?

If Abrogail is going to ascend, what better way to show the might of Hell and the Might of cheliax then by laying a perfect trap for her enemies. Think they can walk into Egorian and then send them all directly to Hell to be destroyed, tortured and used for Hell's ends.

Arkat wrote:

Some of you guys seem to think the Thrunes losing is a done deal.

I wouldn't bet on that if I were you.

I think Cheliax the nation is slated for some reversals, but I bet Abrogail II is going to get something she wants - apotheosis, maybe?

If she becomes a deity, where would she fit into Hell's Hiearchy, and what would her edicts, anathamas, domains, weapon, etc be.

Question: if Hellbreakers and Hell's destiny are the 2027 books, what are the 2026 books?

Question: When the AP first came out, the tian xia world and character guide were not yet out. Since it is now out, will there be changes to account for that both player side and GM side? I don't know if there would be an updated Player's guide or not.

vyshan wrote:

zimmerwald1915 wrote:

Veltharis wrote:

Not too much to go on, but the general premise seems to be the PCs starting uprisings along Cheliax's western coastline

Oh, is Pezzack's dual power situation finally getting resolved?

What is the dual power situtation going on there?

Same one that's been ongoing for a good. . . fourteen years at this point?

I mean what is going on. explain this whole dual power structure going on as I am not familar with Pezzack.

I really want to know more about the greater Empire. the 1e book Qadira Jewel of the east really added a whole lot of details and fleshed out that satrapy and details on the Kelishites. Notably the Kelishite ethnicity is a delibertly constructed identity to bring about unity to the empire. There are six major ethnicities(Aishmayars, Althameri, Khattibi, Mideans, Susianams, Tzorehiyi) Each is associated with a virtue , and the kelishite identity as a whole is associated with Unity.

The book also mentions a host of other human ethnicities: Amai Birtim, Beshzens, Jalunahs, Karas, Mishyrians, Ninshaburians, Qalahs, Yenchaburians. Plus various Garundi, Tian, and Vudruni people. They get like a brief paragraph but some of them seem really cool for plot seeds like the ancestral divide between the Beshzens and Mishyrians. As they were once one people but when a spawn of Rovugug escaped the pit of Gormuz they turned to the archduke of Hell Moloch for aid. However many did not agree with that and left, and they became known as the Mishyrians and they venerate various empyreal lords, with Falayna as their most important patron. which if I am counting right means the empire of Kalesh has 14 human ethncities specific to the empire itself.

The details on the non-humans was far shorter and apparently non-humans are not considered citizens in the empire, not sure if that would change in 2e or not. There are plenty of ancestries that I feel would be really cool to get some new heritages or have some for here. We know there is a culture of dwarves in Qadira that venerate sarenrae; maybe a heritage to reflect that? This could be a decent spot to toss in Tumbleweed Leshies(we know they exist via npc core), Could be good to have a desert catfolk hertitage, stuff for Centaurs would be good as we know they exist throughout Casmeron. Obviously there should be stuff for the Genie-kin of all elemental planes.

There was some things in the book that could become archetypes. for example Sunsinger and the Sun Totem(for Barbarians) could be fun things for Bards and Barbarians in 2e.

Now when it comes to faith, we don't have afaik details for 2e on a lot of the faiths there. Sure we know about the deites that exist elsewhere but the book mentions a lot of unique religious traditions and deities that we just don't know about. They are: Atarshamayyin, The cult of the Hawk, Dust Speakers, Lugalisimaru, Nightseers, Oathos, Qedeshatam, Roidira, Shahar, Temple of Law, White Feather, Yahaiya.

Divine Mysteries didn't touch on them afaik.

The temple of Law I got to imagine will be reimagined or at least the deities there will be changed as they worship Asmodeus(lord of Hell) and Abadar, and Zohls(The empyreal lord of Investigators basically, they often unreaval the plots of devils).

I also imagine Oathos might get changed. See the book states that Oathos is a moon god who was a lover of a jealous goddess who poisoned him. But after the formation of the Padishah empire of Kalesh, he is seen as the consort of Sarenrae who is suffering from a divine wasting disease and is prayed to by the sick. Now I like the whole syncretism elements here except for the fact that for an empire that is devoted to the worship of Sarenrae is in a polycule with Shelyn and Desna, two other ancient deities who I got to imagine considering how important Sarenrae is to the Kelishite empire that they would know of her two lovers.

And speaking of Sarenrae. I do wonder How the faith will be explored there. I know they have basically retconned the Cult of the Dawnflower out of existance for being slaving jihadist. That said I do like the split between more inward and outward. Where you have more pacifistic ones(the book mentions that most sarenrites are this here) and more agressive going out and fighting evil(Sarenrae charges her faithful to fight Rovugug and his spawn after all) basically the split between cloistered clerics and battle priests or even Battle Habringer. With how central Sarenrae's faith is to the empire we should hopefully see it explored more in detail, with various internal factions that make sense for the faith.

vyshan wrote:

From the stream today it sounds like we are getting more of Casmeron in the future as Erik Mona said he was working on stuff for the region.

He also mentioned the idea of an AP about the collapse of the Padishah empire and the civil war that enfolded that would be like the bronze age collapse. Note this isn't an ap that will happen as this was them being put on the spot to make one up then and there, but it is curious to see where his mind is at.

Properly introducing us to Casmaron with the explosive end of the empire could be a really interesting way to do it.

One idea I thought of was something similar to 1e War for the Crown but set in the Padishah empire of Kalesh. With you traveling from one satrapy to another. Starting in Qadira as that part of the empire has the most detail and traveling eastward.

Veltharis wrote:

Not too much to go on, but the general premise seems to be the PCs starting uprisings along Cheliax's western coastline

Oh, is Pezzack's dual power situation finally getting resolved?

What is the dual power situtation going on there?

From the stream today it sounds like we are getting more of Casmeron in the future as Erik Mona said he was working on stuff for the region.

He also mentioned the idea of an AP about the collapse of the Padishah empire and the civil war that enfolded that would be like the bronze age collapse. Note this isn't an ap that will happen as this was them being put on the spot to make one up then and there, but it is curious to see where his mind is at.

So at this month's paizo live on twitch, paizo announced that they are changing from monthly releases to quarterly releases. and instead of 3, 4, or 6 books for an AP they will be 1 single volume together.

I honestly quite like this change.

In the stream today they mentioned we are getting a hardcover complimation next year!

I wonder what shall replace Cheliax as big bad evil faction aside from Tar baphon?

So something I have noticed looking at the artwork for Thassilonian cities is that they have an Asian style of design to the buildings. Considering that they are not in the Asia expy of Tian-Xia I wonder why? Was this the style of Azlant? Did Xin just really like the style?

And how do Thassilonians of New Thassilon relate to modern Varisian Architecture? are they sending their architects to Minkai or other Tian Xia nations to get builders and planners who know how to build in that style. Or are they abadoning the ancient style of old Thassilon?

Since as far as I understand the cities of Varisia don't look anything like the Asian influenced Thasslonian Architecture or is that assumption wrong and they do look like asian villages?

To a lesser degree I think this applies to fashion too but I am not sure. The Rune giants had samurai looking armor. But the runelords themselves had all sorts of personal style and I am not sure what the style of their mages were like.

vyshan wrote:

I wonder if Sorshen will stop being the Runelord of Lust and return to being the runelord of Love before the virtues were corrupted into vices?

She's already abandoned that title and now goes by "Queen Sorshen." She no longer identifies as a runelord (although she still follows the themes and NPC-facing rules for her stats). (She was also NEVER a runelord of love—no runelords of the virtues ever existed, as they came into being only after the corruption of those elements into the sinful versions during the early days of Thassilon.)

I thought that they were appointed the runelords of those virtues but then corrupted it into the sins. But cool. I am looking forward to learning more about her and new Thasilion in revenge of the Runelords.

I wonder if Sorshen will stop being the Runelord of Lust and return to being the runelord of Love before the virtues were corrupted into vices?

Arazni's story is 100% NOT a redemption story, but a story about betrayal and then escape and regaining one's dignity and agency and perhaps eventually getting revenge.

I wonder why people think it is a redemption story then?

What was the issue with Sorshen to begin with?

to be fair the actual iconic necromancers are either Geb or Tar-baphon. Those two are the most powerful and most famous necromancers though I doubt either will be the iconic.

So if we are to assume paizo won't create their own new character. I think it is either Nyctessa or Zenda Modic. Modic was made for Rival Academies as one of the people attending the Convocation of magical schools and the repersentive on behalf of Synostosis Academy her focus is on Osteology so bone magic.

It was confirmed that Earth and Golarion exist in the same universe in different galaxies.

Is there any lore that explains why both Earth and Golarion have some similar fauna (blue whale, great white shark, woolly mammoth, tiger, lion, bison, etc).

Because it is fantasy and Paizo wants to use things we are familiar with. Yea, they exist as Paizo probably didn't want to have to make up new but similar creatures.

Souls At War wrote:

Castilliano wrote:

And why couldn't you have? (Especially unwittingly.)

What would (expected) cannibalism add to an AP?

For II, would help with resources.

And part of the point being that not all Evil acts are selfish and/or destructive.

Those answers don't seem to match my questions.

You'd lamented not being able to cannibalize, so I asked why couldn't you have? I don't think Paizo put any guardrails on that. What's to stop you from running the whole AP w/ evil PCs? Maybe the PCs prefer one side, go where the money is, or are savvy enough to pretend they're good (much like heroes on The Boys TV show). That AP seems a solid example of how there's already room for tables to play evil if they want to, without making it necessary for tables that prefer heroic play (albeit still muddied in that AP).

And when I asked what would (expected) cannibalism add to an AP it's a follow up to asking what evil acts you felt you wanted to do with your PCs. You said cannibalism. So I ask again, what would cannibalism add to an AP? As in Paizo setting up a situation where cannibalism was a normal choice for PCs to make or solution to a dilemma during an AP.

And if giving up on cannibalism, what other evil act is missing so that you want an evil AP? Seems like an impossible question to me since so many APs allow so much, and the most heinous acts are unmarketable.

There was a PFS1 scenario where PCs kinda were coerced into eating an unholy meal (part of a ritual I think). PCs tied to being non-evil had to Atone afterward, including my PC. Controversial indeed, and can't say it augmented the story on bit, only made some players bitter. We almost began battling right there, but were undercover and I'm unsure that would've worked. Given that the main baddie had escape as a goal, I think we kinda did need to indulge (though I believe one PC faked eating if I recall).

I could see Cannibalism playing a role as a horror element, or in exploring Kholo and Mother Vulture worship. However the way Kholo handle cannibalism is rather distinct from horror monster stuff but it is a sign of respect and part of funneral rites; likewise for mother vulture worship. When it comes to say horror elements, the point often in horror is either being forced to or learning after the fact.

All this is to say is that I agree with you. I don't really see a point in an evil campaign. Heck I don't think they should have a pro-cheliax ap, I do want Cheliax to have some sort of victory, and remain in the setting. Why because cheliax's government is pretty much fantasy nazis and I don't see appealing to fascists and nazis as a good selling point.

My main reason I want cheliax to have a victory or not be destroyed is simple, I want to punch fantasy nazis. and if cheliax is destroyed I can't punch fantasy nazis.

I was definitely a little sad to not see any sort of names/terms for the regional Kholo in the Impossible Lands book.

I would imagine that the regional terms are all tribal, as in they refer to themselves based on their tribe first and foremost.

That said I do agree with you and hope that a Golden Road book will have plenty of details on the Kholo.

I wonder does Battlecry have anything on Geb v Nex or Taldor v Qadira?

Question: is it the player core or the gm core that will have the rules for implementing pathfinder classes in starfinder. A fair number seem like they would fit the sci-fi setting of starfinder.

the only two areas where I don't think it would be black and white is:

taldor v Qadira/Kelesh: This is more in grey v white or grey v grey or white v white. Neither nation is really an evil nation and in fact both have plenty of people who do not want to see a war happen.

Geb v Nex: this is more evil v evil as both lands are unethical evil wizard lands. Each seems to try and up one another in terms of evil unethical magical experiments.

the answer to me is simple both can be dukes of thunder. I don't see a problem with it.

I wonder what ancestry is best for the Satyr?

If one wanted to use the Darklight sisterhood with the current lore, I wouldn't have them be rivals to the Pathfinders even if they probably would cross paths with them. No I would use the lore tidbit from War of Immortals.

Where following Gorum's death, Queen Abrogail made decrees to gather as much of the shards as possible. She did use that decree to re-enforce her power and authoritarian rule.

However, the darklight sisterhood could be one of the organizations that goes out into the world to find shards not in cheliax to bring back to their Queen.

Who were the darklight sisterhood again?

Question: It mentions on page 8 that the enigma or virtuoso muse are appropate for bards, but where is the virtuoso muse from?

I wonder what 1st edition APs and Adventures would be good to use for 2e for those new to starfinder? :)

Another one. The elemental Lord Sairazul is a friend of the Dwarves and while not related to Torag and his family is counted among their freinds and often visits them. And its not uncommon for the dwarves to include her in their worship, especially druids and primal casters.

She just feels perfect to include with dwarves to me.

Morhek wrote:

vyshan wrote:

zimmerwald1915 wrote:

Zoken44 wrote:

The recognition of the Irisseni immigrants from that other place their current queen comes from has caused many questions of how the Osirion gods came to be on this plane. and a name has been whispered during storms in the far north. the name of another god who may have come through, his wing beats like thunder, they whisper the name "Perun"

Surely no one can have missed that the Russian diaspora in Irrisen is very conspicuously Christian?

I wonder what domains Jesus would give? and how they handle being christian in a land where gods are very much real?

People were unhappy about the inclusion of IRL gods like Cernunnos or the gods of Osirion. I'm not sure Jesus H. Christ himself is a third rail that Paizo want to touch.

If they didn't, they could have just not included a Russian diaspora in the Lost Omens Campaign Setting. This would even, in many ways, have left the setting much improved.

I kind of agree. Not to mention Anastasia is IIRC literally canonized by the Russian Orthodox Church. It would have been neater IMO if instead of Anastasia it was Vasilia the Beautiful, which ties to the Slavic Folklore and Baba Yaga without being. So the christian thing kind feels like it has to be addressed somehow when we get an Irrisen book.

Zoken44 wrote:

The recognition of the Irisseni immigrants from that other place their current queen comes from has caused many questions of how the Osirion gods came to be on this plane. and a name has been whispered during storms in the far north. the name of another god who may have come through, his wing beats like thunder, they whisper the name "Perun"

Surely no one can have missed that the Russian diaspora in Irrisen is very conspicuously Christian?

I wonder what domains Jesus would give? and how they handle being christian in a land where gods are very much real?

So a fan theory that I have basically made canon for my setting is that Casandalee is basically Brigh's daughter, and they have a mother-daughter relationship. This is born out of the fact that her final renewal began at a monastary of Brigh in the Mana Wastes where she trained and learned of brigh and once she ascended to divinity, she was adopted by Brigh.

Casandalee is a young goddess that Brigh is helping to teach, to care for, like a mother teaching her daughter. And if you disrespect Casandalee then Brigh will be irate at you, ie expect curses. Likewise if you insult Brigh for Casandalee.

Consequently in temples devoted to One you will find a shrine to the other, and that it is basically unheard of for one to pray to one and never pray to the other.

Also in Alkenstar and the mana wastes while rather rare, you can find pilgrims going to the holy sites.

Souls At War wrote:

While Good vs Evil is one thing, it can be useful to remember the whole Law vs Chaos part, and maybe avoid conflating Good with Law and Evil with Chaos.

Also, Robin Hood as a "good thief"

That one I want clarify, Robin Hood was a Thief out of Necessity. If everything went well, he would have happily just remained a noble and kept running his estate well.

But he couldn't, it was desperate Times

And circumstances can be explained, even excused

But if your base approach is "PLunder and Raid" in every situation, no matter if poor or Rich, that is diffrent for me. Piracy for Piracy sake, is a vile act for me.

That depends on the source you are using. The character of Robin Hood is a folkloric character and has a number of versions. the Noble origin is a latter addition to Robin Hood, heck even Maid Marion wasn't in some of the earlist Ballads. Also in the original Ballads, it wasn't just a desperate thing, I don't know when he got his rob from the rich to give to the poor thing but it wasn't there in the early ballads, though some of them did have him with a code of conduct.