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Sidenote, I think issue with "mythic" monster math is that if it keeps steadily increasing at same pace according with the formula, like it does even in levels 21-25, pcs might be outclassed even with "mythic profiency. So assuming math continues same, it might imply level 25 characters might need proficiency equivalent of "12 + level" unless there is alternate ways to deal with even higher numbers :'D Like how classes that get legendary save proficiency have ability that crit fails turn to fails and failures still halve damage while success is crit. Assuming there aren't items with even higher bonuses, which I see as kinda unlikely.
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PF1 Mythic needed more than 50% curated IMO, especially those abilities with bigger numbers that most attracted players (surprise).
PF2 has nothing on the same scale. Pretty much the opposite actually.
Yeah... the rarity system pretty much is the "GM might want to pay attention here for curation purposes" sign... which, considered that way, is pretty cool.
On the other hand, I feel like that means that all of Mythic is going to be rare by default, which... okay. Fair.
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Problem with Mythic rules enabling PCs to battle higher level threats when they reach lvl 20 themselves is that it needs Mythic to be a power booster.
Which means Mythic, at least at high levels, will intrude on the Encounters building rules. An encounter build for lvl15 PCs will not be of the same difficulty for lvl15 Mythic PCs.
Unless Mythic power boosters only intrudes on these in Mythic Encounters.
Maybe they could take a page from the Dr Strange movie, with Mythic encounters taking place on a different dimension where Mythic power boosters can come into play.
Or Mythic power boosters can only engage when in Mythic Encounters.
The best way to do this IMO would be to differentiate between Mythic power boosters and Mythic narrative abilities that are not power boosters.
In non-Mythic Encounters, Mythic narrative abilities would be the only ones who come into play, but they don't unsettle the level power balance.
In Mythic Encounters, all your Mythic abilities come into play, including power boosters that effectively raise your level and enable you to tackle highest level opponents.
Sidenote, I think issue with "mythic" monster math is that if it keeps steadily increasing at same pace according with the formula, like it does even in levels 21-25, pcs might be outclassed even with "mythic profiency. So assuming math continues same, it might imply level 25 characters might need proficiency equivalent of "12 + level" unless there is alternate ways to deal with even higher numbers :'D Like how classes that get legendary save proficiency have ability that crit fails turn to fails and failures still halve damage while success is crit. Assuming there aren't items with even higher bonuses, which I see as kinda unlikely.
I think that getting at least +4 items with mythic is all but guaranteed.
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We currently have a total of one sentence in a playtest document saying that we are getting some mythic rules. I'm excited for the possibilities, and I know that the Internet is the place where we overanalyze everything, but I have a hard time getting super worked up until we actually see...anything.
Problem with Mythic rules enabling PCs to battle higher level threats when they reach lvl 20 themselves is that it needs Mythic to be a power booster.
I would suggest that Mythic tiers should have level requirements. Like you shouldn't be able to be a 6th level character with 5 mythic tiers.
Does anyone really think mythic will exist and not be archetypes? Like they could be massive power increasing archetypes, or just narrative expanding ones, but I cannot imagine Paizo deciding it is time to add a whole new additional track of things to characters that don’t fit into feats, focus points, skills, spells and items.
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Does anyone really think mythic will exist and not be archetypes? Like they could be massive power increasing archetypes, or just narrative expanding ones, but I cannot imagine Paizo deciding it is time to add a whole new additional track of things to characters that don’t fit into feats, focus points, skills, spells and items.
Then that marketing byline would be something like “and enjoy god-like new Archetypes,” rather than tell us “mythic rules.”
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I'm at least hoping that Mythic is a second "tier" of archetypes if they go the archetype route. My group uses Free Archetype variant by default, and I would hate to give up that flavor if we want to use Mythic, and I don't like the idea of having to give up on class feats for it either.
Keeping in mind that if that did happen, that'd mean a group using both Mythic and Free Archetype would have a lot of stuff going on, I still would prefer that to effectively "losing" free archetype to support mythic.
I'm at least hoping that Mythic is a second "tier" of archetypes if they go the archetype route. My group uses Free Archetype variant by default, and I would hate to give up that flavor if we want to use Mythic, and I don't like the idea of having to give up on class feats for it either.
Keeping in mind that if that did happen, that'd mean a group using both Mythic and Free Archetype would have a lot of stuff going on, I still would prefer that to effectively "losing" free archetype to support mythic.
This is the main reason I think/hope that the Mythic Rules work like the Dual Class Rules.
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I'm also here to yay parallel mythical is confirmed! (And azata mythical class/archetype too)
Are you saying those things are confirmed? If so, source? I missed it.
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I definitely hope that they don't do the sort of mythic paths that Owlcat did in the WotR game, since I really prefer the fantasy of "you are imbued with mythic energy and are cultivating your own legend" to "you're becoming more like an angel".
The only six paths you really need are the six associated with the six attributes.
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I dont know Attribute based ones sounds a bit boring but i guess that is all a matter of presentation.
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I definitely hope that they don't do the sort of mythic paths that Owlcat did in the WotR game, since I really prefer the fantasy of "you are imbued with mythic energy and are cultivating your own legend" to "you're becoming more like an angel".
The only six paths you really need are the six associated with the six attributes.
This seems to be very much a matter of preference. I've seen a lot of sentiment online of people who would very much like the Owlcat versions.
I personally would like a mix of the standard version and the owlcat versions. I think being able to a pursue "this is why I'm personally powerful, because I'm a archmage/hierophant/etc" or a "I'm becoming a mfing archlich/dragon" are both interesting ways of going about it.
To be fair you can flavor your mythic how ever you want. Its called Archmage but that doesnt have to mean literaly Archmage.
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We know that there will be Mythic Rules.
We know that there will be a collection of immortality-granting archetypes.
We have only wild speculation for what the relationship between these two things will be.
I know people like this sort of thing, the designers will do a good job with it but I have no real interest in Mythic rules.
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What if Mythic rules were NPCs-only ?
I guarantee you, Paizo would not invite that level of hate upon themselves. I wouldn't say that about every company, mind, but Paizo is pretty good about things like this.
We know that there will be Mythic Rules.
We know that there will be a collection of immortality-granting archetypes.
We have only wild speculation for what the relationship between these two things will be.
Do we know that they will take the Archetype route? I mean it makes the most sense, but has that been officially confirmed?
Do we know that they will take the Archetype route? I mean it makes the most sense, but has that been officially confirmed?
I don't believe so.
I hope that we get some more of those item based archetypes. Be really cool to wield some kind of mythical, legendary weapon and become mythic alongside it.
That might be an idea, but I find that in the past Mythic was event based. Some big event “unlocked” Mythical powers for the PCs.
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Por qué no los dos?
I enjoyed the item archetypes and even enjoyed making a few at my home tables for players. Having a few extra to go alongside and compliment mythic rules would be interesting.
Do we know that they will take the Archetype route? I mean it makes the most sense, but has that been officially confirmed?We know that there will be Mythic Rules.
We know that there will be a collection of immortality-granting archetypes.
We have only wild speculation for what the relationship between these two things will be.
In the intro stream for the book, they specifically mentioned that it had a bunch of immortality-granting archetypes. I expect that there's some sort of relationship between the significant number of immortality-granting archetypes and the mythic rules, but even that is only a guess.
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Is it too much to ask to be a hot enough demigod to flirt with Nocticula at her house again? That's the true mythic goals.
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I do wonder whats chance of mythic rules including stuff like "you have four actions always" :p
Tbf, might be nice to have option to become quickened where the quickened action can only be used as part of mythic abilities because some classes already have tight competition between abilities and actions x'D
They could Run it both ways have Immortal Archetypes probably similar to Things already got mentioned.
And having mythic as seperated optional rule Set.
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I do wonder whats chance of mythic rules including stuff like "you have four actions always" :p
Tbf, might be nice to have option to become quickened where the quickened action can only be used as part of mythic abilities because some classes already have tight competition between abilities and actions x'D
I don't see all Mythic casters being able to cast 2 spells per turn. Unless there is something similar for MAP-attacks like "your first Attack action does not increase your MAP".
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I hope Mythic will be the proper rules supposed to replace both Free Archetype and Dual Class.
Free Archetype gives you more feats than Archetypes are supposed to absorb, leading most level 10+ FA characters to have multiple archetypes and end up looking like nothing. It also cheapens Archetype's feats compared to class feats creating some weird interactions (taking Double slice from your class feats is more expensive than taking Dual-Weapon Warrior). It also doesn't work well with some classes (Summoner as the Eidolon can't benefit from the Archetypes) and you tend to see always the same archetypes around the table as they are powerful and fit into most builds.
Dual Class is absolutely imbalanced and needs a lot of GM adjudication to end up well.
Proper Mythic rules working like Free Archetype, with proper paths that can absorb all your feats, with proper balance between classes in how they can be improved through Mythic would be a bliss to me. A good way to finally get rid of FA.
Also, a lot of players feel that PF2 is too hard. Mythic as a way to make the game easier without putting an "easy" tag on the game (as players have their ego) is certainly a good idea.
So, overall, I'm curious and I see some potential in Mythic rules.
I hope Mythic will be the proper rules supposed to replace both Free Archetype and Dual Class.
Free Archetype is part of the remaster. Dual class is not. Mythic is some third thing.
I hope Mythic will be the proper rules supposed to replace both Free Archetype and Dual Class.Free Archetype is part of the remaster. Dual class is not. Mythic is some third thing.
By replacing, I don't mean necessarily in the books (even if it looks like it will at least replace Dual Class) but around tables. I'm sick of FA that I find really clunky. I hope for Mythic to be better written and to become the new FA.
Free Archetype always strikes me as a candy jar. It's not good for you, but you'll almost never say no to it.
I never make it available for level 10+ games, but it's often fine in the moderation of feats that are low level campaigns. And my players still take archetypes. So I give them a bonus feat from time to time when it makes sense in the plot.
Selfishly I do hope mythic is somehow incompatible with free archetype, because the game is already at high complexity for many of my players and having so many tables choose all three of class, free archetype, and mythic feats is probably going to be less healthy for players than they'll realize.
Analysis paralysis can really slow things down, especially because if one player gets slowed down, they all do as attention spans begin to suffer.
Honestly, I like the flexibility FA brings to the game. Yes, most archetypes are not built for 2-20, so I’m sure Paizo could update that if they wished. But there are plenty of flavour options out there. My GMPC is a Charismatic Champion with Marshal (for a charismatic support role) and Lastwall Archetype. (to signify his training in Lastwall before it blew up) Meanwhile, my wife’s Ranger is taking all Beastmaster feats to get more pets. More breathing room to flesh out our characters, I find.
Though I am curious as to how they will implement Mythic. Will it run as the Free Archetype currently runs? What if you want to keep your FA concepts? Will they work together or just be a pain? I’m trying to mentally prepare myself for the various options.