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What if, because the Drow are gone and the Snake People are ascendant, we want to elevante Ydersius back to the core pantheon so he takes the spot of one of the unholy ones.
Like I could absolutely see Ydersius eating Norgorber.
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What if, because the Drow are gone and the Snake People are ascendant, we want to elevante Ydersius back to the core pantheon so he takes the spot of one of the unholy ones.
Like I could absolutely see Ydersius eating Norgorber.
I'd LOVE a Ydersius promotion.
I think eating Norgorber is the most likely promotion for Ydersius, since one of the main themes of the Sekmin is that they hate humanity and see them as usurpers. It'd be most fitting if he could take out one of the decidedly human gods (so Iomedae, Norgorber, Irori, Nethys, or Cayden).
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Honestly, I’m warming up to the thought of killing Asmodeus off… because of the knock-on effects for Cheliax.
A dead Asmodeus might be more of an opportunity to Thrune than a blow; the archdevils fighting over who gets to be on top now would be a grand opportunity to get a more favorable contract written.
I think "conservation of threat" means that you can't replace Asmodeus (who threatens to end free will) or Rovagug (who threatens to end existence) with something that isn't similarly threatening.
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I think "conservation of threat" means that you can't replace Asmodeus (who threatens to end free will) or Rovagug (who threatens to end existence) with something that isn't similarly threatening.
Except not really? Since those concepts don't really apply to people playing the game and their games, their set dressing, not actual plot hooks to that effect.
Not saying you can't have stories about fighting them but "overwhelming unimaginable threat" isn't really required when we got stuff like Tar Baphon and Thrune and Gerbies.
I get the feeling that the biggest repercussions are what the devs are looking for. Something to really shake up the canon. So the safest bets for who to easily kill off might be the least likely to die and the ones that are “too important” have their heads cleanly and well-placed on ye olde chopping block.
I think there are a couple who are truely too important to kill off... Pharasma is probably the biggest one that will not go. Nethys is highly unlikely to go thanks to Archives of Nethys imo (a real world tool, but one Paizo marketing would likely step in for).
Anyone who came to ascention via the starstone is also unlikely to be killed. They are safe from any OGL drama, very golarion and tend to be how Aroden still has an impact / lasting reminder. Although Norgorber could be assassinated.
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And if we're going to kill one of the core 20, are any of the other gods really safe?
This general scenario crossed my mind. One of the 20 is going to die and stay dead, but there's nothing saying that others won't die temporarily. It would be a great way to keep interest high.
Hopefully not since I'd rather not have my favorite obscure gods be used like Marvel/DC superhero canon fodder whenever company thinks it would be dramatic to kill someone and kills "throw away" character :p
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I feel like Ng is completely safe. Since "killing Ng" would let us know something about Ng, which Ng would never allow.
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Sidenote, I do think this event has good potential for dramatic stuff though, like maybe Iomedae losing arm so thats why by time of starfinder she has cybernetic arm xP
Problem with idea of killing off Sarenrae is that if they kill of Sarenrae, she is 100% gonna come back from death(meaning core20 remains same unless someone else dies as well). Because no way they kill of Kyra's deity, that would be kinda boneheaded decision to write off Kyra or replace her deity, so if Sarenrae dies by end of event she is gonna come back from dead. (and if they do perma kill her, it'd be really insulting to players)
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The thought that it might Hit the prismatic Ray has me anxious
They are not only my favourite deities
They are Kind of Icons of inclusivity and acceptance and the one big Media polycule that works that I know off
Killing either one of them would have really Big 'can't have nice things' vibes
Any chance of it being Brigh, because of the Starfinder lore having Triune be an amalgamation of her, Casandalee (from Iron Gods) and SF deity?
Also a fun tie in with the SF2E announcement/compatibility with PF2E
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Honestly, I’m warming up to the thought of killing Asmodeus off… because of the knock-on effects for Cheliax.A very good point, which would suit me as a) “Asmodeus” has always been a really, really weird inclusion in DnD and iterations and b) as much as a devil-state is like, totes ughmaginahtahv, its time it went the way of the owlbear.
Maybe Saranrae is finally getting her revenges for Ihys, after it being proven pretty conclusively that Asmodeus can't be redeemed. ^^
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Eh, any reason something is “too important to lose” is a really, really good way to build drama. Kyra can have a whole arc on finding a new god/dess frex…
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I'm wondering if this is setting up mythic somehow it would be terrible imo if thiers the death of a God im presuming evil one here & players don't get to be the ones to kill them
no I will never stop hoping for mythic for 2e till we get it. (demigod pcs are cool & so is fighting demigods &deities! and we currently can't fulfill that fantasy in 2e)
And you probably never will.
Fighting full on deities has always been off the table, even in Mythc for P1.
I wonder if either Zon Kuthon could die but end up corrupting Shelyn a little bit, or if Shelyn ends up dying but pulls her brother back from the dark side in her final moments. Possibly the two end up killing each other but their sibling nature and divinity causes a new god to spawn from their death to take their place.
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One theory I have is that in Starfinder, the Gap was caused by Nethys casting a powerful forbidden spell that backfired. Funny enough, Nethys isn't part of Starfinder's pantheon.
I could see Nethys casting a spell that nukes him, but cripples one side so muhc that it surrenders.
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I hadn’t considered that Cheliax losing one devil lord might just mean a huge power vacuum that would need to be filled by ever vying devils. Civil war (pr at least more discord than there was before, even unto the point of…chaos) in the devil state is way more fun than a solid devil state. Fair enough.
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I think "conservation of threat" means that you can't replace Asmodeus (who threatens to end free will) or Rovagug (who threatens to end existence) with something that isn't similarly threatening.
Just because Asmodeus goes down doesn't mean devils in general aren't around
You would almost certainly have a civil war in hell, which would certainly distinguish Lost Omens versus the DnD baseline.
Also, I could easily see the Queens of Night acting as a unified whole to take over, which would promise a ton of story hooks.
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Hey folks, I made a ranked-choice poll based on this topic, and it would be great to have some people here fill it out to get more results!
EDIT: Fixed the link being wrong.
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because I think the chaos of it would be funny I want it to just be all of them, all 20 core gods just dead
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It would be most intersting and consistent with Pathfinder devils for Asmodeus to die and for there not to be a big civil war in hell. Transistion/succession plans are in place, all contracts have clauses for who assumes responsibility in the unlikely event Asmodeus becomes unable to personally fulfill them, and it's hard to see why individual rulers of a layer would risk keeping their position to put some other guy in the bottom position rather than follow the rules of succession.
Hey folks, I made a ranked-choice poll based on this topic, and it would be great to have some people here fill it out to get more results!
This link goes to the results, not the poll.
This link goes to the results, not the poll.
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It would be most intersting and consistent with Pathfinder devils for Asmodeus to die and for there not to be a big civil war in hell. Transistion/succession plans are in place, all contracts have clauses for who assumes responsibility in the unlikely event Asmodeus becomes unable to personally fulfill them, and it's hard to see why individual rulers of a layer would risk keeping their position to put some other guy in the bottom position rather than follow the rules of succession.
I think that would be interesting but I'm not sure if consistent is the right word. Despite their gestures toward order and contracts, pretty much every write up on every major devil talks about their plans to betray everyone else for the sake of personal benefit. Asmodeus not having a good plan for his succession wouldn't be surprising, because the system is only valuable to him because it helps him maintain power (and therefore without him it becomes irrelevant).
Devils are actually really bad at the lawful part of their alignment (which is another side benefit of the remaster doing away with it).
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It would be most intersting and consistent with Pathfinder devils for Asmodeus to die and for there not to be a big civil war in hell. Transistion/succession plans are in place, all contracts have clauses for who assumes responsibility in the unlikely event Asmodeus becomes unable to personally fulfill them, and it's hard to see why individual rulers of a layer would risk keeping their position to put some other guy in the bottom position rather than follow the rules of succession.I think that would be interesting but I'm not sure if consistent is the right word. Despite their gestures toward order and contracts, pretty much every write up on every major devil talks about their plans to betray everyone else for the sake of personal benefit. Asmodeus not having a good plan for his succession wouldn't be surprising, because the system is only valuable to him because it helps him maintain power (and therefore without him it becomes irrelevant).
Devils are actually really bad at the lawful part of their alignment (which is another side benefit of the remaster doing away with it).
This is how I see it. Asmodeus is much too proud and much too self-centred. His own version of Ihys' murder puts him in an unflattering light. That said, I really like Perpdepog's idea of a plan being in place without his knowledge. That feels like something Mephistopheles would do. Which would also mean he's unlikely to be the successor, but he would probably prefer being the power behind the throne anyway.
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This link goes to the results, not the poll.My bad! Here's the actual link to the poll.
Not sure how much of a "winner" the top spot will feel. ^^
Not sure how much of a "winner" the top spot will feel. ^^This link goes to the results, not the poll.My bad! Here's the actual link to the poll.
LOL, fair. I've had the same thought when discussing the poll with people on Discord. Norgober shot up for a minute there, but in general very interesting to see Asmodeus and Torag pretty consistently on top, with Erastil, Shelyn, Nethys, Urgathoa, and Nogorber the general next group.
Also interesting to see the four remaining gods that no one has made their first pick: Calistria, Cayden Cailean, Iomedae, and Irori.
EDIT: And Iomedae is one the board now, lol.
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Calistria and Irori seem plausible to die because "they really don't use them for much of anything" but also that's the reason that killing them during an event wouldn't mean much.
For the Sarenrae crowd: who would replace her as the main sun deity? Her command over both that and redemption feel like pretty essential pillars, so she'd need someone to inherit them.
There might be something with the Old Sun Gods of Mzali there, but I'm just not sure I see it.
For the Sarenrae crowd: who would replace her as the main sun deity? Her command over both that and redemption feel like pretty essential pillars, so she'd need someone to inherit them.
There might be something with the Old Sun Gods of Mzali there, but I'm just not sure I see it.
Her Herald? there is precedent for that.
Probably a new character introduced in the adventure path would be my most likely guess. Unless her portfolio just gets carved up and given to other deities.
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I don't want it to be Sarenrae. If it is her, I think her successor will be Mahja Firehair (but not because of the way that Vow Mark orcs usually become gods).
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I don't want it to be Sarenrae. If it is her, I think her successor will be Mahja Firehair (but not because of the way that Vow Mark orcs usually become gods).
Completely forgot how much Luis was hyping up Mahja!
EDIT: Hell, she might even be going to pick a fight with Urgathoa...
Sarenrae would be replaced by Sarenrae.
Suns die, but fire is also about rebirth. After all, everything heavier than Lithium in the universe comes from suns that died.
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I feel like Asmodeus, with his connection to D&D, is the most likely on the chopping block.
I could also see Irori being the one to bite it. He doesn't really do much and I probably see him the least used by players among the non-evil gods.
My insane pick is Urgathoa. She could die, get in line at the Boneyard, then get back out of line, leave and go back to whatever she was doing. When you're the god of cheating death, you cheat death.
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FYI, I checked with Thurston and can confirm that a deity's status in Starfinder has no bearing on the likelihood of their death in Pathfinder. :)
I knew it! Very curious how the poll would turn out with everyone keeping that in mind. I may have to see if I can convince people to do the poll again in 3 or 4 months with that quote as header text, lol.