I wonder when the Adventure Path that related to this event will be announced.
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I wonder when the Adventure Path that related to this event will be announced.
I'm guessing...
- All PCs are under the mythic rules.
- Welcome to the War of Immortals, kids. You get to be participants.
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I wonder when the Adventure Path that related to this event will be announced.I'm guessing...
- All PCs are under the mythic rules.
- Welcome to the War of Immortals, kids. You get to be participants.
Based on the following, I think the PCs will get front rows to the explosion of godstuff, likely early in the AP.
another thing that is will be interesting to see. how will we players be involved?Some number of you will be almost directly responsible for stuff hitting the fan, courtesy of the Narrative team's contributions to this event. Some of you already have been involved in the opening skirmishes of this event and may not have realized it, yet.
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Luis Loza's old Valiant AP centered around the characters being blasted by an explosion of Starstone-like stuff, granting them special abilities beyond the core PF2 stuff. I wouldn't at all surprised if something similar is on the table here.
And again, it's the niche established on three continents for hero-gods.
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Luis Loza's old Valiant AP centered around the characters being blasted by an explosion of Starstone-like stuff, granting them special abilities beyond the core PF2 stuff. I wouldn't at all surprised if something similar is on the table here.
And again, it's the niche established on three continents for hero-gods.
AFAICT hero-god and Mythic character are the same thing. So they exist all over Golarion.
Killing a good God is the best option. killing an evil deity is whatever, there is some infighting they get replaced, no one is really upset, it's boring.
Killing Sarenrae who is my favorite deity would be the best literary choice with Iomedae a close second.
or you could do it Norse way and kill a god that is beloved by all (mostly), either desna or shelyn
if you want to go for absolute chaos, pharasma would be the best option but that would conflict with previous "cannon" that she is supposed to be the last being that dies in this universe. Asmodeus is a sort of a good second choice, but the problem is that he's evil, and so the chaos is just going to be limited to hell, I suppose we could get cheliax involved.
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Killing a good God is the best option. killing an evil deity is whatever, there is some infighting they get replaced, no one is really upset, it's boring.
Killing Sarenrae who is my favorite deity would be the best literary choice with Iomedae a close second.
or you could do it Norse way and kill a god that is beloved by all (mostly), either desna or shelyn
if you want to go for absolute chaos, pharasma would be the best option but that would conflict with previous "cannon" that she is supposed to be the last being that dies in this universe. Asmodeus is a sort of a good second choice, but the problem is that he's evil, and so the chaos is just going to be limited to hell, I suppose we could get cheliax involved.
Note that with omens being lost and prophecy broken, Pharasma does not benefit from that plot armor anymore.
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Hmm I just realized finally reading through Exemplar that there is strong implication of War of the Immortals involving great war between good and evil. So that might also kinda create implications, either who dies during war or whose death would start the war?
(guess law and chaos still get left in dust ;( I hope I'm wrong there and there is space for monitors doing monitor things, especially since lot of Axis demigods don't exist anymore due to ogl inevitable removal...)
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Hmm I just realized finally reading through Exemplar that there is strong implication of War of the Immortals involving great war between good and evil. So that might also kinda create implications, either who dies during war or whose death would start the war?
(guess law and chaos still get left in dust ;( I hope I'm wrong there and there is space for monitors doing monitor things, especially since lot of Axis demigods don't exist anymore due to ogl inevitable removal...)
Just as the (temporary) removal of metallic and chomatic dragonkind does not erase the named dragons in the setting, I expect the (previously Inevitable) Axis demigods to still be there after the ogl Inevitable removal.
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I remember devs kinda implying otherwise last time I asked about primordeal inevitables, but I forget if that was during con or when did I ask about that. Then again I never asked if they replace them with something else, just if this means no more magicrobo demigods
I think I remember something like this. IIRC they said that they would focus on other LN outsiders rather than on those ogl-related. Not that the latter would be deleted from the setting though.
I believe only the drows will get the full "Never existed in the setting" treatment.
Note that with omens being lost and prophecy broken, Pharasma does not benefit from that plot armor anymore.
I just don't think killing Pharasma is interesting, since the Boneyard has a very, very, very stable bureaucratic apparatus. Most of the "enforcement" that they do is done by individual psychopomps and most of what Pharasma does that somebody else in the organization couldn't do just as well is "make the ruling in complicated cases."
Like if you kill Pharasma it's mostly "Atropos takes over and everything continues mostly the same."
That's a kind of plot armor.
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Note that with omens being lost and prophecy broken, Pharasma does not benefit from that plot armor anymore.I just don't think killing Pharasma is interesting, since the Boneyard has a very, very, very stable bureaucratic apparatus. Most of the "enforcement" that they do is done by individual psychopomps and most of what Pharasma does that somebody else in the organization couldn't do just as well is "make the ruling in complicated cases."
Like if you kill Pharasma it's mostly "Atropos takes over and everything continues mostly the same."
That's a kind of plot armor.
Pharasma is the oldest and likely mightiest deity in the setting.
Atropos is not.
All those who want to upset the status quo of the cycle of life and death would try their chance if Pharasma ceases to be.
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For a clean bisection, Urgathoa may apply too. Death of the goddess of Undeath might release some interesting energy with Immortal properties.
Note also that several deities dying has been confirmed (and several new appearing too).
Urgathoa seems kind of irrelevant. The only time she ever really mattered was when she flipped Pharasma the bird and didn't stay dead. Since then, she's accomplished a fat stack of jack, and if she died tomorrow, about the only one who'd care was Pharasma, who would crack a tiny smile, cross her name off a list, and say, "That took longer than I wanted, but I win again."
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If there's a core 20 deity I'd personally want to see killed, it's Urgathoa. Mostly because of the whole "she's guarding Tar-Baphon's Soul Cage" thing, so we're never going to see the end of the Tar-Baphon story if she's standing in the way.
I'm not really excited for "the Whispering Tyrant marshals his power in the Gravelands forever" as just a facet of the setting, since we can't resolve that story because it's tied into Aroden's story which we're not going to resolve. Geb is the more interesting "arch-necromancer" to leave in place anyway.
I could see what kills Urgathoa to actually *be* Tar-Baphon when he makes a play to steal her divinity, so him being temporarily vulnerable to "permanent killing" would be appropriately ironic.
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I remember devs kinda implying otherwise last time I asked about primordeal inevitables, but I forget if that was during con or when did I ask about that. Then again I never asked if they replace them with something else, just if this means no more magicrobo demigodsI think I remember something like this. IIRC they said that they would focus on other LN outsiders rather than on those ogl-related. Not that the latter would be deleted from the setting though.
I believe only the drows will get the full "Never existed in the setting" treatment.
Aeons have already stepped up into the place of prominence for “Lawful” ‘outsiders’ in PF2 cosmology.
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Note that with omens being lost and prophecy broken, Pharasma does not benefit from that plot armor anymore.I just don't think killing Pharasma is interesting, since the Boneyard has a very, very, very stable bureaucratic apparatus. Most of the "enforcement" that they do is done by individual psychopomps and most of what Pharasma does that somebody else in the organization couldn't do just as well is "make the ruling in complicated cases."
Like if you kill Pharasma it's mostly "Atropos takes over and everything continues mostly the same."
That's a kind of plot armor.
Pharasma is the oldest and likely mightiest deity in the setting.
Atropos is not.
All those who want to upset the status quo of the cycle of life and death would try their chance if Pharasma ceases to be.
Another possibility that came to my mind is that Atropos is actually not interested in becoming the next multiverse's Survivor (and thus kind of Pharasma) and she finally takes the chance to rebel against her fate, kill her mother and finally live free.
Atropos leaving behind her duties as the one who determines when each mortal will die would nicely fit with a sudden flood of mortals gaining immortality.
If Asmodeus dies, does the contract that brought about the creation of Golarion be rendered null which would cause Rovagug to wake up and try and get out to tear stuff up again?
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Ya know I know people want to focus on core 20 deities
But I'm kinda worried for Ragathiel (not so much for Damerrich and Vildeis because nobody remembers them). Like I could very much see Ragathiel being casualty of the war
Gave me the idea for an Exemplar who is an absolute fan of Ragathiel (so badass) and would be hell-bent on taking up the righteous fight and exercising mighty vengeance on the unworthies.
Good thing alignment will be gone in their case IMO.
Even if Ragathiel does not die, they might be convinced he is an impostor and the real Ragathiel is actually dead (and gifted them his Divine Spark as his last gesture to ensure Evil will not win).
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Ya know I know people want to focus on core 20 deities
But I'm kinda worried for Ragathiel (not so much for Damerrich and Vildeis because nobody remembers them). Like I could very much see Ragathiel being casualty of the war
I remember Vildeis. They give blind fight at level 1. Then it's blinded blade style all the way to the top. Good stuff.
Oh, you mean doctrine-wise? Yeah, no clue here.
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Vildeis is fun, and got some recent love in Knights of Lastwall. I like her as a like a more militant Ilmater, my old favorite FR deity.
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Ya know I know people want to focus on core 20 deities
But I'm kinda worried for Ragathiel (not so much for Damerrich and Vildeis because nobody remembers them). Like I could very much see Ragathiel being casualty of the war
I remember Vildeis. They give blind fight at level 1. Then it's blinded blade style all the way to the top. Good stuff.
Oh, you mean doctrine-wise? Yeah, no clue here.
Basically, I included those two as the other two super edgy LG paladin gods, main thing being that Ragathiel is only one who gets people regularly speculating about whether he is really LG which feels unfair for somebody born in hell who got his redemption when Vildeis is much more sinister x'D
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Oh I absolutely adore all 3 od those dieties.
Of the three Vildeis and Ragathiel feel the more likely to kick the bucket than Dammerich.
Dammerich is a bit edgey spicy, but is much more restrained and medthodical. Not to mention his extremely low opinion of those who shirk their oaths to justice and become corrupt members of the law.
I'll preface this by saying that I don't think Asmodeus will be the one to kick the bucket, though as a fun thought experiment (and in the case it actually happens) I'll tell the (abridged) story of my first campaign on this setting. Spoiler: I actually killed Asmodeus in my first ever campaign in the setting, though I eventally resurrected him in a later campaign. It's important to note that I wasn't a lore expert at the moment so I f~!@ed up a lot of the already existing lore. This was in PF1e btw.
* The campaign started in Absalom, during a civil war in which the minotaurs from the Isle of Kortos wanted a higher recognition in the isles.
* The PCs are sent into battle, they slowly come to know each other, and after many sessions they eventually repel the minotaurs.
* During this process, they come to know that the one that was politically moving the strings behind the scenes and the one that actually was the arms dealer that provided weapons for the minotaurs was an umbral half-dragon fetchling from the Shadow Plane.
* The group goes to the Shadow Plane, search for this dude, and to make it simple, eventually take him down as well, discovering that him (a 3.5 hexblade) had the Laughing Duke Nybbas (which is an actual PF character) as it's patron.
* In this moment they also discover that Nybbas (who is dead in canon) came back from the dead and slew Asmodeus and threw the archdevils out of Hell.
* The rest of the campaign essentially was the PCs searching for the weakened archdevils and together with them reconquer Hell back again (I don't think I have to mention that it became a mythic campaign at this point).
* Stuff happens, Nybbas "dies" and Asmodeus "reappears". I will not go into detail as I already wrote a wall of text about something that nobody cares about lol.
Why I'm writting this? Because in the case Asmodeus ends up dying I will CLAIM that Paizo STOLE my idea /s
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Oh I absolutely adore all 3 od those dieties.
Of the three Vildeis and Ragathiel feel the more likely to kick the bucket than Dammerich.
Dammerich is a bit edgey spicy, but is much more restrained and medthodical. Not to mention his extremely low opinion of those who shirk their oaths to justice and become corrupt members of the law.
Yeah, I consider Death Sentence inherently barbaric practice(because when an error happens, what is done to a person is horrible miscarriage of justice), but Damerrich is okay to me because his thing is ensuring that due process genuinely happens and that sentences aren't mishandled.
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Oh I absolutely adore all 3 od those dieties.
Of the three Vildeis and Ragathiel feel the more likely to kick the bucket than Dammerich.
Dammerich is a bit edgey spicy, but is much more restrained and medthodical. Not to mention his extremely low opinion of those who shirk their oaths to justice and become corrupt members of the law.
Dammerich is also less prominent than the other two (they got stats and he never did in 1e)
But yeah they're awesome. And they're good aligned deities with harm fonts! Which is weird and rare and unique and awesome.
Yes. Good deities with Harm font and Evil deities with Heal font are more interesting IMO.
Which thread is the official “who’s gonna die” thread from now on? I keep getting confused.
Didn’t the play test announcement mention a goddess torn apart or something??
Which thread is the official “who’s gonna die” thread from now on? I keep getting confused.
Didn’t the play test announcement mention a goddess torn apart or something??
No.
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Which thread is the official “who’s gonna die” thread from now on? I keep getting confused.
Didn’t the play test announcement mention a goddess torn apart or something??
The stream said “when a god is torn apart” and a bunch of people misheard that.
it's almost guaranteed to be Asmodeus. Even though he is from real world mythology/religion his current incarnation is too close to the OGL, so he probably has to die, and this does give them an opportunity to make the lost omens hell more distinct from the D&D hell.
it's almost guaranteed to be Asmodeus. Even though he is from real world mythology/religion his current incarnation is too close to the OGL, so he probably has to die, and this does give them an opportunity to make the lost omens hell more distinct from the D&D hell.
Would it? I thought D&D hell was currently in a war of succession or something according to BG3? I could be wrong as I haven’t yet played BG3 yet nor D&D in a while
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it's almost guaranteed to be Asmodeus. Even though he is from real world mythology/religion his current incarnation is too close to the OGL, so he probably has to die, and this does give them an opportunity to make the lost omens hell more distinct from the D&D hell.
Paizo decided on the Core 20 deity who will die before the whole OGL-ORC saga.
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it's almost guaranteed to be Asmodeus. Even though he is from real world mythology/religion his current incarnation is too close to the OGL, so he probably has to die, and this does give them an opportunity to make the lost omens hell more distinct from the D&D hell.Would it? I thought D&D hell was currently in a war of succession or something according to BG3? I could be wrong as I haven’t yet played BG3 yet nor D&D in a while
As far as I'm aware, the event that would kick off that war...
...is an optional outcome that may or may not occur based on what you as the player decide. Unless future D&D releases canonize any specific decisions from the game, it's open to an individual DM's interpretation.
it's almost guaranteed to be Asmodeus. Even though he is from real world mythology/religion his current incarnation is too close to the OGL, so he probably has to die, and this does give them an opportunity to make the lost omens hell more distinct from the D&D hell.Would it? I thought D&D hell was currently in a war of succession or something according to BG3? I could be wrong as I haven’t yet played BG3 yet nor D&D in a while
I am not quite certain about that. While BG3 does use the same setting as D&D, and most all of the content is there (besides Beholders, among other things, for some reason), I would not consider it as the same continuity as D&D, simply because while it uses the setting, unless Wizards comes out and calls it canon, it's at-best as valid as a home game table playing a published campaign adventure. And in the case of Paizo's content, we don't exactly have "canon endings" to these events until Paizo makes publications/statements that solidify outcomes of those APs.
For this, I would say it's the same concept; unless Hasbro publishes content that solidifies BG3 events, I don't consider the game canon, meaning any events that happen in-game aren't reflected in whatever settings they have in the books, even if they do use a lot (but not all) of the same setting entities.
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HASBRO would be INSANE to not capitalize on and make the BG3 timeline and world/setting their default middle-of-the-road assumption going forward given how much praise and just raw numbers it has seen from a critical, commercial, and fan reception angle. There are absolutely far more people who are exposed to the setting, game, and world due to BG3 than have ever even so much as picked up a 5e PHB let alone something that comes even close to being able to provide a good overhead view and feel of the game and setting as a whole and the numbers aren't even CLOSE.
The success of BG3 has been so phenomenal thus far that it's actually hard to overstate, and the instant best seller will probably end up sneaking off with as many game of the year awards as Elden Ring, and is pushing 5e and D&D in general further into the mainstream than either the D&D Movie or all of the marketing that has been done for the RPG system over the last two decades.
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Hasbro/WotC has in the past shown tendency to either assume nothing interesting happens and things stay as status quo(because they don't want every adventure where party defeats Tiamat to canonically happen so that Tiamat would have canonically as many defeats as team rocket or something) OR the thing that happens is crappiest thing for character involved :'D
Do note that this is the company that for long time treated Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Night games as non canon then decided to canonize BG in "Oh and MC died and Bhaal came back anyway after the games"
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Gozreh seems the most likely to me. It's the only god with two obvious pieces to rip apart. Maybe each half joins a different side of the War i.e. the god rips themselves apart over an internal disagreement between their diune aspects.
The new class Iconics seems pretty primal-themed too. This also allows affected Clerics to essentially keep their god or, at least, part of it. Seems a convenient way to balance cataclysmic cosmic change without invoking the wrath of the players.
- Jee
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Gozreh seems the most likely to me. It's the only god with two obvious pieces to rip apart. Maybe each half joins a different side of the War i.e. the god rips themselves apart over an internal disagreement between their diune aspects.
The new class Iconics seems pretty primal-themed too. This also allows affected Clerics to essentially keep their god or, at least, part of it. Seems a convenient way to balance cataclysmic cosmic change without invoking the wrath of the players.
- Jee
Wrath is good.
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Gozreh seems the most likely to me. It's the only god with two obvious pieces to rip apart.
Nethys and Urgathoa are also neatly perforated between halves.
Norgorber has quarters. I believe this qualifies to be ripped apart.Gozreh seems the most likely to me. It's the only god with two obvious pieces to rip apart.Nethys and Urgathoa are also neatly perforated between halves.
You guys think the theme of the iconics is a red herring eh? I'll give ya Nethys - I could see his two "halves" joining opposite sides of a war. Lotta Pharasma talk in up here too; tempting to get a neutral "judge" god involved in a polarizing conflict.
My money's still on Gozreh tho. Lotta elemental upheaval goin on.
- Jee
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I don't think the ripped apart is a clean bisection. When you are dealing with the power of gods someone being messily, physically ripped apart doesn't really need a nice dichotomy to start that up.
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I feel the Sentry ripping Ares apart might have struck a chord.
Ya know fair. I wasn't particularly a fan of that era of comics but that visual was certainly... memorable and probably where I was pulling from when I wrote that.