Shield Enhancement Questions

[Expostfacto]

I have two quick questions.

1) Does the bashing quality stack with shield spikes for determining the size equivalent damage the shield does? I.E. if bashing raises up 2 steps and spikes say it changes the shield to a martial piercing weapon one size step higher would a bashing spiked shield be three steps higher?

2) I've seen multiple casual references to the enchantment of shield spikes and shields as separate. This seems rather cheesy to me. Where are the written rules that support this viewpoint?

[Bahamutkotd]

Well I got this answered already so I'll try and explain as I understand it.

RAW says that they stack so yes a hvy shield can do 2d6 dmg. But there are some that JJ says that RAI they don't. I honestly believe they do.

Ok so they are not seperate entities but if you want the +1 to affect hit and damnage you must add the cost of enchanting the shield as a weapon I.e. 2000 gp.

And as I understand it for example a spiked shield +1 bashing/+1 holy would be a +2 shield and a +1 holy weapon dealing 2d6 + str + 1 + 2d6 to evil critters

[blackbloodtroll]

Bashing is a Shield enhancement that does not effect Shield Spikes.

Shield Spikes can be enchanted as weapons.

Just as Armor enchantments do not effect Armor Spikes.

For purposes of enchantments and Special Material costs, and effects, they are separate.

[Bahamutkotd]

I disagree with bbt I just read the rules on enchanting shields from the CRB and it says to make the enchantment work on dmg and hit you have to add the cost of the enchantment on weapon I don't have he book in front of me but I just read the bloody thing not but hours ago.

[Expostfacto]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Shield Spikes can be enchanted as weapons.

Just as Armor enchantments do not effect Armor Spikes.

For purposes of enchantments and Special Material costs, and effects, they are separate.

As part of my 2nd question what page(s) would I read to come to the same line of thought?

[Bahamutkotd]

And he'll if they allow you to put additional effects on say a ring or a necklace at 1.5 cost I think haveing to pay full price on weapon enchants on the shield for attacking isn't so bad... Though a +1 bashing hvy shield would be 4k + the base shield then +1 weapon would be another 2 k or more for. Total on a mithral shield 7k

[RtrnofdMax]

Expostfacto wrote:

SNIP

2) I've seen multiple casual references to the enchantment of shield spikes and shields as separate. This seems rather cheesy to me. Where are the written rules that support this viewpoint?

You say that's cheesy, but I would say it's cheesy to get both a +1 weapon and a +1 shield, and only pay the price once. Furthermore, would you pay 1k for a +1 shield or would you pay 2k for a +1 weapon?

It's issues with the economy that force the shield, spiked or not, to be considered separate items when it comes to attacking and defense.

[Seranov]

It's really down to your DM's decision.

The rules, as written, do not say they can't stack, but if you think about it, the Bashing enchant only effects the shield, while the shield spikes are a separate weapon entirely, that happen to be attached to the shield.

[Expostfacto]

Also as a note found it on pg 153 of Core which makes me feel dumb as it's written out that a spiked shield can also be enchanted as a magic weapon.

I think Seranov is right that I'll just go with whatever the GM says. Because even in this read through it seems like you can enchant a spiked shield as a weapon or a shield but not both (which seems to make sense otherwise the shield master feat would let you push the magic bonuses above +5)

[Seranov]

You can enchant it as both BUT you have to enchant each part separately.

So you could have a +1/+1 shield, or whatever.

[blackbloodtroll]

You are better off with a Spikeless Shield if you plan to focus on shields and work your way up to the Shield Master feat.

Note: You can enchant a Spikeless shield as a weapon.

[leo1925]

Question, shield having both the bashing special ability and the impact special ability, do they stack?

[blackbloodtroll]

No, they overlap.

[Expostfacto]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

You are better off with a Spikeless Shield if you plan to focus on shields and work your way up to the Shield Master feat.

Note: You can enchant a Spikeless shield as a weapon.

Is the spikeless shield better since I dont have to worry about Bashing overriding spikes (not that it matters terribly spikes are 9gp)? What would be the best enchants in your personal opinion?

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, Shield Master feat is one of the main reasons.

Holy is a key one.

Others, depend on the build.