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Bloodrager archetype :)
I'm not picky. I'll take an instinct too.
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I'm actually really looking forward to the slew of monsters we will see. There are a handful I'd like to see make it in, like Nisnases, maybe the remaining Blightburn Genie, any Undead related to the Inner Planes (mostly for backwards compatibility, given the recent Undead stuff), Nephleis, Pech, secondary Elementals (on top of the new ones); to name a few. I'm hoping it isn't just creatures that call the Planes home, but also ones that frequently travel there.
Also, are Fletching just Pathfinders answer to D&D's Shadow Genie? Kayal? Khayal? Coincidence? I think not!!
Since metal is getting its own elemental plane, is it natural enough to get a Metal Druid? Maybe a Druidic Order that's considered possibly heretical by other Druids?
Like you can argue that making Steel (which you do by mixing carbon and iron at high temperatures) is no less natural than making Leather.
Since metal is getting its own elemental plane, is it natural enough to get a Metal Druid? Maybe a Druidic Order that's considered possibly heretical by other Druids?
Like you can argue that making Steel (which you do by mixing carbon and iron at high temperatures) is no less natural than making Leather.
Yeah, I was wondering how this interaction would go especially since "elemental metal" in real world lore means more than forged metal (not to mention that "metallic" on the periodic table is much broader too).
Since metal is getting its own elemental plane, is it natural enough to get a Metal Druid? Maybe a Druidic Order that's considered possibly heretical by other Druids?
Like you can argue that making Steel (which you do by mixing carbon and iron at high temperatures) is no less natural than making Leather.
Metal Druid sounds paradoxical, largely because of the whole "Can't wear Metal Armor" anathema. So I'm not sure how that would function to begin with, given that something they would value and revere is something they can't even realistically wear, and probably shouldn't even be brandishing as weaponry to begin with (even if just because they're bad with weapons).
Maybe it will be some Uncommon Order to choose from, which alters the original anathema and puts in a new one, but it's hard to say if that's going to be put to print at all.
Yeah, I was wondering how this interaction would go especially since "elemental metal" in real world lore means more than forged metal (not to mention that "metallic" on the periodic table is much broader too).Since metal is getting its own elemental plane, is it natural enough to get a Metal Druid? Maybe a Druidic Order that's considered possibly heretical by other Druids?
Like you can argue that making Steel (which you do by mixing carbon and iron at high temperatures) is no less natural than making Leather.
I don't think Golarion has anything related to a Periodic Table of Elements in their universe, so I highly doubt we'll get things like a Plane of Titanium or Demiplane of Cobalt. Or the Subplane of Nickel. Maybe Planes of Mithril or Orichalcum, but by no means would I expect a Plane of Mercury or something else similarly real-world without it also being identified as existing in Golarion.
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Radiation Druid, please :p
It would actually make good sense for Numeria and the Darklands!
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I think it's worth drilling down on the diagetic reason for the rules against metal. Since you could say "Druids don't want you to tear apart the landscape to dig up rocks from the earth" but there's a lot of Dwarves who would just give you funny looks if you told them that.
They do. Earth is in the same universe as Golarion so anything that we have they can have and vice versa.I don't think Golarion has anything related to a Periodic Table of Elements in their universe, so I highly doubt we'll get things like a Plane of Titanium or Demiplane of Cobalt. Or the Subplane of Nickel. Maybe Planes of Mithril or Orichalcum, but by no means would I expect a Plane of Mercury or something else similarly real-world without it also being identified as existing in Golarion.Yeah, I was wondering how this interaction would go especially since "elemental metal" in real world lore means more than forged metal (not to mention that "metallic" on the periodic table is much broader too).Since metal is getting its own elemental plane, is it natural enough to get a Metal Druid? Maybe a Druidic Order that's considered possibly heretical by other Druids?
Like you can argue that making Steel (which you do by mixing carbon and iron at high temperatures) is no less natural than making Leather.
I am pretty sure it was revealed in an AP that Golarion is an alternate universe/dimension to Earth, meaning it's not a 1:1 comparison. So, saying Golarion is the same as Earth is absurd.
Golarion doesn't have nuclear bombs. Earth doesn't have spellcasters with demiplanes. Saying that they are the same as justification for allowing things not exposited in Lost Omens lore doesn't make sense.
I am pretty sure it was revealed in an AP that Golarion is an alternate universe/dimension to Earth, meaning it's not a 1:1 comparison. So, saying Golarion is the same as Earth is absurd.
That's not what I remember, but I've never run Rasputin Must Die.
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There is an Earth in the same universe as Golarion. But that Earth is similar to our Earth (just at an earlier point in history) but it is not literally "this Earth" since this Earth has never had people from Golarion visit it (because Golarion is fictional.)
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There is an Earth in the same universe as Golarion. But that Earth is similar to our Earth (just at an earlier point in history) but it is not literally "this Earth" since this Earth has never had people from Golarion visit it (because Golarion is fictional.)
... so far as we know. The Truth Is Out There!
There is an Earth in the same universe as Golarion. But that Earth is similar to our Earth (just at an earlier point in history) but it is not literally "this Earth" since this Earth has never had people from Golarion visit it (because Golarion is fictional.)
Yeah, it's a parallel universe. There are certainly similarities, but there are plenty of differences, too. Enough that we can't say that certain elements (such as all the ones described in the Periodic Table of Elements) are present.
There are certainly obvious ones, like Iron, Silver, Gold, Copper, Brass, etc. These exist based on the fact that items and other entities are made of this material and described as such. But there are less obvious ones, like Cobalt, Titanium, etc. that aren't really shown in-universe. Ones that we have identified in our current Earth, but not currently in Golarion or even the parallel "Golarion" Earth.
I wonder if the Kovintus might make an appearance. Them and Azers both make an appearance in Bestiary 3, and might make fun oddball Ancestries.
There is an Earth in the same universe as Golarion. But that Earth is similar to our Earth (just at an earlier point in history) but it is not literally "this Earth" since this Earth has never had people from Golarion visit it (because Golarion is fictional.)Yeah, it's a parallel universe. There are certainly similarities, but there are plenty of differences, too. Enough that we can't say that certain elements (such as all the ones described in the Periodic Table of Elements) are present.
There are certainly obvious ones, like Iron, Silver, Gold, Copper, Brass, etc. These exist based on the fact that items and other entities are made of this material and described as such. But there are less obvious ones, like Cobalt, Titanium, etc. that aren't really shown in-universe. Ones that we have identified in our current Earth, but not currently in Golarion or even the parallel "Golarion" Earth.
Identifying various elements seems more like "this is too much detail for our game" and not "these elements do not exist what so ever". For example you have cobalt Aphorites and Cecaelia's have cobalt prong tattoos.
Also the fact that they have a parallel earth undergoing WWI means that people from that earth have at least the same amount of data as we did back then. Not to mention that the periodic table is only a way to present/categorize the elements nothing more and nothing less. Even then, if no one invents the periodic table it does not mean that elements just cease to exist.
That's the meta reason, but not an in-lore reason. An in-lore reason would be "nobody has bothered to do this yet in Golarion," which is why such elements existing in Golarion and its parallel earth, while it might be true, isn't definitively true. It's an assumption done to handwave potential plot holes (like why nobody in Golarion has developed a nuke to take out neighboring cities to dominate them), and nothing more. There are so many fundamental differences between us, Golarion, and its parallel earth, that we can say that it's possible, but also that it might not exist. Until the setting or the rules confirm this, either of us can be right.
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I don't think Golarion has anything related to a Periodic Table of Elements in their universe, so I highly doubt we'll get things like a Plane of Titanium or Demiplane of Cobalt. Or the Subplane of Nickel. Maybe Planes of Mithril or Orichalcum, but by no means would I expect a Plane of Mercury or something else similarly real-world without it also being identified as existing in Golarion.Yeah, I was wondering how this interaction would go especially since "elemental metal" in real world lore means more than forged metal (not to mention that "metallic" on the periodic table is much broader too).Since metal is getting its own elemental plane, is it natural enough to get a Metal Druid? Maybe a Druidic Order that's considered possibly heretical by other Druids?
Like you can argue that making Steel (which you do by mixing carbon and iron at high temperatures) is no less natural than making Leather.
I know these are just for examples, but amusingly Mercury, or quicksilver, ctually was among the 7 metals known since antiquity, so if Golarion has even that much in common with Earth, it's entirely fitting.
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What? There is no need to have the game say "all elements exist" when its assumed that they do from the start. The game already has radiation and the whole Starfall thing was effective a mass driver nuke being sent down to the planet. Or what is destroying a continent and setting back the entire planet 4000 years "too little"?
Also who needs nukes when you can literally just use a bunch of spell casters throwing fireballs and meteor swarms. Nukes are a tech option for people with no magic, the setting is just now dealing with early firearms, while Numeria tech is past the point of dealing with nukes.
Yeah there are a lot of fundamental difference between Golarion a planet that has magic and gods messing with it and Earth a planet with no magic and gods are questionable. That still doesn't make all the elements disappear because again the periodic table is just a way to categorize elements: It has nothing to do with their existence outside of finding theoretical man-made elements.
Assumed by what? The lore doesn't say or imply it's identical. Gravity rules are quite different compared to Earth's rules of Gravity, and that's a big difference alone. And Golarion is different enough of a universe that it's entirely possible for certain elements, such as ones defined in the Periodic Table of Elements, to simply not exist. It's also justified by elements that don't exist in Earth, but do exist in Golarion, like Mithril or Orichalcum.
At best, it's an assumption of ease, because it largely has no bearing on mechanics or plot. I don't like to use ease and laziness as a means of justifying/handwaving things that the setting doesn't elaborate on or imply with existing content. And to be clear, I'm not saying Golarion can't or doesn't have all the elements defined in Earth, but assuming it does with how vastly different a universe it is to Earth is quite a stretch to make.
As for who needs nukes, look at the Mana Wastes, where magic is effectively dead/neutralized. Alchemy and Firearms takes precedence there due to a lack of magic involved. Why wouldn't they try to develop a nuke to destroy rivaling enemies/countries? Plenty of in-universe reasons to justify that not being the case, but "because it's been done before" sounds flimsy, given Starfall sounds more magical in nature, and believe me, nukes aren't magic, and "because magic replaces it" doesn't work in areas of the setting where magic is dead/neutralized, like the Mana Wastes.
...What? There is no need to have the game say "all elements exist" when its assumed that they do from the start. The game already has radiation and the whole Starfall thing was effective a mass driver nuke being sent down to the planet. Or what is destroying a continent and setting back the entire planet 4000 years "too little"?
Also who needs nukes when you can literally just use a bunch of spell casters throwing fireballs and meteor swarms. Nukes are a tech option for people with no magic, the setting is just now dealing with early firearms, while Numeria tech is past the point of dealing with nukes.
Yeah there are a lot of fundamental difference between Golarion a planet that has magic and gods messing with it and Earth a planet with no magic and gods are questionable. That still doesn't make all the elements disappear because again the periodic table is just a way to categorize elements: It has nothing to do with their existence outside of finding theoretical man-made elements.
Assumed by what? The lore doesn't say or imply it's identical. Gravity rules are quite different compared to Earth's rules of Gravity, and that's a big difference alone. And Golarion is different enough of a universe that it's entirely possible for certain elements, such as ones defined in the Periodic Table of Elements, to simply not exist. It's also justified by elements that don't exist in Earth, but do exist in Golarion, like Mithril or Orichalcum.
At best, it's an assumption of ease, because it largely has no bearing on mechanics or plot. I don't like to use ease and laziness as a means of justifying/handwaving things that the setting doesn't elaborate on or imply with existing content. And to be clear, I'm not saying Golarion can't or doesn't have all the elements defined in Earth, but assuming it does with how vastly different a universe it is to Earth is quite a stretch to make.
As for who needs nukes, look at the Mana Wastes, where magic is
It's possible that the technology for it got lost/destroyed over time, which would explain why we haven't seen anything like the Starfall since its occurrence.
This sounds like the Ancient Aliens defense. "There's nothing that says these elements exist. But there's nothing that says these elements don't exist. So they exist." Which, I guess can be true. Maybe the book will explain this. But until it does, it's just a giant question mark in the air with an assumption put in as a means of handwaving potential inconsistencies.
They have been talked about, but are purely fantastical, and have been categorized as such in the real world. Compared to Golarion, where it is shown to be a real thing that exists, this is already a fundamental difference, which posits the question "What other differences are there?" And that's really the question that should be answered with the book. As it stands, it's not properly answered yet.
Plenty of ways to make things work without having to make the basic assumption that the universe is parallel to earth. Especially when the setting and content goes out of its way to show it's not just a copy of earth.
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Paizo designers & developers have stated from the very beginning that all physical aspects of Golarion can be regarded as the same as that of Earth's except when stated or shown to be otherwise.
(So, start with the same or very similar base assumptions, then tweak them - or even do much more!)
Therefore, unless the setting lore says differently, we can assume that the physical* elements (of which brass is not; it's an alloy - as is mithril) exist on Golarion (the Periodic Table is not necessary for their existence - as Temperans has said - for it is a human construct used as a tool for understanding the properties & relationships of the physical elements).
________________________
As for what I'd like included in the book to be:
All ten (or twelve?) of the elemental lords, as well as any other elemental adjacent deities (like Feronia).
Carry on,
--C.
Paizo designers & developers have stated from the very beginning that all physical aspects of Golarion can be regarded as the same as that of Earth's except when stated or shown to be otherwise.
(So, start with the same or very similar base assumptions, then tweak them - or even do much more!)Therefore, unless the setting lore says differently, we can assume that the physical* elements (of which brass is not; it's an alloy - as is mithril) exist on Golarion (the Periodic Table is not necessary for their existence - as Temperans has said - for it is a human construct used as a tool for understanding the properties & relationships of the physical elements).
________________________
As for what I'd like included in the book to be:
All ten (or twelve?) of the elemental lords, as well as any other elemental adjacent deities (like Feronia).Carry on,
--C.
Not to drudge up the topic, but a citation for that answer would be helpful to gauge potential answers or expectations of the lore aspect of things. Because again, the lore itself doesn't say or even imply that to be the case.
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The topic of Golarion’s similarities to Earth seems worthy of its own topic… and no longer derailing this one, please.
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I think it's worth drilling down on the diagetic reason for the rules against metal. Since you could say "Druids don't want you to tear apart the landscape to dig up rocks from the earth" but there's a lot of Dwarves who would just give you funny looks if you told them that.
Like these Dwarves would point out "hey, I live inside of a mountain. There is a destructive, wasteful way to mine, and a healthy reasonable way to mine. Just like there are good and bad ways to farm, or harvest tinder. Our job as druids should be to ensure that our activities are sustainable and harmonious with nature not that we never take advantage of natural resources. You'd never tell a wolf not to eat a rabbit, so you shouldn't tell a Dwarf not to dig in the earth- this is our home for generations upon generations and we know what we're doing."
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What else do you want to see in Rage of Elements?
A true kineticist.
.
.
.
;)
:P
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Metal druids should also be all about recycling usable steel- Beat your rusty plowshares back into swords, and all that.
Since metal is getting its own elemental plane, is it natural enough to get a Metal Druid? Maybe a Druidic Order that's considered possibly heretical by other Druids?
Like you can argue that making Steel (which you do by mixing carbon and iron at high temperatures) is no less natural than making Leather.
Metal Druid sounds paradoxical, largely because of the whole "Can't wear Metal Armor" anathema. So I'm not sure how that would function to begin with, given that something they would value and revere is something they can't even realistically wear, and probably shouldn't even be brandishing as weaponry to begin with (even if just because they're bad with weapons).
Maybe it will be some Uncommon Order to choose from, which alters the original anathema and puts in a new one, but it's hard to say if that's going to be put to print at all.
Metal Druid might be able to wear metal armor because it could be a class archetype as well as an order.
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Radiation Druid, please :p
It would actually make good sense for Numeria and the Darklands!
I want one of those as well.
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- Planes
- Kineticist
- Elemental Shifter
- LOADS of spells, including extra cantrips
- Monsters
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- Planes
- Kineticist
- Elemental Shifter
- LOADS of spells, including extra cantrips
- Monsters
Have you read the book description? Kineticist is there, it's being playtested right now.
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Just an archetype based around or that has cold based magic
...Sounds like Metal Kinetesist can be valid.
That is one of the options that will exist in the final book, yes.
It's possible that the technology for it got lost/destroyed over time, which would explain why we haven't seen anything like the Starfall since its occurrence.
Pretty sure Starfall was the Aboleths collectively telekinetically dragging a huge meteor down to Golarian to make everything go splat, and accidentally harmed themselves in the process, and everyone went 'nah, shouldn't do that again' and thus we carry on.
Archetypes, archetypes as far as you can see.
The Elemental Plane of Metal needs to be given a clear and unique identity, since it's not a traditional 'element' in western fantasy. Make the art and description of it be distinct from the Elemental Plane of Earth. Give any Metal Elementals a different vibe from Iron Golem or other constructs.
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Oh, just thought of something else, the following additional Eidolons: Elemental and Kami.
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Only one thing... At least a page for each of the eight elemental lords, with art for all of them. It was a shame for Planes of Power (the 1E book about the elemental planes) to not cover the Lords with more than some mentions, and with not art at all. I hope Paizo doesn't lose this opportunity again.
And of course, if there are new elemental planes, maybe there are new elemental lords. Although I'm imagining the two new planes as something minor, not as relevant as the main ones.
Only one thing... At least a page for each of the eight elemental lords, with art for all of them. It was a shame for Planes of Power (the 1E book about the elemental planes) to not cover the Lords with more than some mentions, and with not art at all. I hope Paizo doesn't lose this opportunity again.
And of course, if there are new elemental planes, maybe there are new elemental lords. Although I'm imagining the two new planes as something minor, not as relevant as the main ones.
They mentioned the Lords of Wood and Metal specifically wanting nothing to do with the conflicts that were going on between the classic Elements. So there is at least a good Lord for each Plane. Hard to say if there are evil ones.
I think it is a safe bet to assume we will get this though. At least I hope. We have gotten write up on many a Deity in several books. Granted, they did mention it would be formated like BotD, so hopefully they don't take away the Deity entries from that book, as they were a but lack luster. But I imagine the Geb section of Impossible Lands and an eventual Eye of Dread book may remedy that.
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The number of Elemental Lords isn't a structural part of the plane, right? It's a de facto representation of the power structures in the politics of the plane.
Like a plane could have 0-900 elemental lords right? It's much like how the First World could have any number of Eldest (including zero).
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I would like for the plane of wood to not have a single elemental lord, but a huge number of them that communicate telepathically and reach decisions via consensus.
"Trees discuss it among themselves at great length before rendering a decision" seems like a thing you see in lots of different fantasy settings.
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Assuming they do go ahead with letting the Elemental Lords out to avoid rehashing the Ranginori plotline, I'd love a look at their followers - especially Atreia, whose purification-focused outlook would be awesome for a character in the Sarkoris Scar.