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So, what do we want to see in Rage of the Elements? The designers chatted a bit about it, but by necessity focused on the planes themselves and the Kineticist.
Granted, those two parts are probably going to be half the book, but moving past those, what other options would we want to see in this book? I'm specifically focused on character options, but if you want to see specific bits of lore, feel free to mention it.
Off the top of my head:
- Metal and Wood elemental cantrips. More cantrips in general, but I always want that.
- A barbarian instinct that is focused on throwing bits of elemental matter. Sanityfaire's thread got me thinking of it, and now I want it. Although this may work better as an archetype, to allow Rangers, Rogues, and investigators to also play in this pool.
- Genie summoners! A new arcane eidolon for the summoner class.
- More Elemental monks. Let's get bending!
- Metal druids. Also Metal witches. I loved my Iron witch in Arcana Evolved, but for PF2 I could see lessons based around the decay/rust aspects of Metal.
- Two new planetouched heritages. Maybe a fully elemental ancestry as well? I want to play as a Mephit.
- Elemental wizard schools?
- Class archetype that allows clerics and psychics to use the elementalist list. Also an expansion of the elementalist spell list and archtype in general.
- A couple new options for the Elemental sorcerer bloodline.
Basically, anything that already dabbles in elemental magic/themes, I want more.
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I don't much expect it, but I would appreciate some proper elemental denizens as Ancestries. Genie are likely an immediate thought, but, I'd like to see options like Azer, Xorn, and similiar creatures. I'd gladly accept the four classics, but two for the new planes would be welcomed.
Most of all, I'm just excited for the lore and the monsters. Cosmology is one of my favorite things about Pathfinder. And the opportunity to truly explore the other Planes is exciting.
EDIT: On top of Genie Eidolon, I would love to see a proper Primal Elemental as an option to, if only to have some variety.
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Since we are getting new genies I hope we get metal and wood geniekins, and maybe new ancestry feats for the other genie heritages.
Maybe some kind of elemental animal companion options. Something like the animal like elementals like the Sod Hound.
- i think seeing some cool elemental stuff for martial classes would be neat.
Genie summoner does sound cool.
Expansion on the elemental sorcerer bloodline or unique bloodlines that go more indepth for an element. like I really like the aquatic bloodline from 1e.
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I would like to see some much needed utility injected into the element spell list. Atm, it's mostly blasts, and there's really not enough uniqueness in it to justify taking over the primal or arcane list.
More chinese element inclusion; I know the western quartet (unless aether is in there like the og kineticist) is kinda the default, but it's nice having options
Genie eidolon sounds dope. The capstone being a 5th level spell selected on ability use would make a great "limited wish" type effect, functionally equal to a 7th slot prepped with infinite possibilities
Wouldn't mind seeing some new class archetypes, like an elemental evocation wizard or something
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I would also point out that Genie binders are specifically a thing in Golarian, especially in Jalmeray and (I think) Nex. So it seems like a pretty obvious inclusion assuming they aren't in LO Impossible Lands.
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First world info! This might not be the book for it tho..I don't know know how much overlap the first world has with the elemental planes in pathfinder. The gonzo rough draft of creation is my primary wish for Pathfinder content outside the material plane. I wanna run my fever dream campaign and have it all be on theme....I do it regardless of what story I'm running but if I got to do it in a first world adventure my players would nod sagely as I got into my usual shenanigans.
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A lot of great stuff in this thread. I love elemental stuff and am so excited seeing all these suggestions.
One thing I would love it more elemental creatures - especially summon able ones. A lot of elementals at different levels are so samey, it would be nice to spice things up.
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I'm also sold on the concept of an elemental unarmed Barbarian, and quite like the idea of opening it up to other martials via Archetype; one of my largest recurring mechanical wants since PF2 launched has been to convert my base damage into, say, fire or cold, and it's proved frustratingly elusive. I understand the balance concerns... but c'mon, it's *fun.*
The thing I'd be most keen to see is some "civilization." I've always struggled with the thought of planar campaigns in places that feel like infinite, dangerous wildernesses, and the elemental realms skew this way especially hard in most settings. Show me the glittering cities of the Efreet, or some sprawling kingdom of aquatic folk amid the Plane of Water! A flying dock-city, haven for sky pirates on the Plane of Air! I want places that feel like places, not just volcanoes stretching to the horizon.
Metal and Wood Geniekin are potentially interesting. I'd gladly welcome some new Ancestries (Salamanders, perhaps?), but don't expect them here.
Options for a pyromancer Psychic would be very welcome - the firestarter archetype is common enough in fiction that it deserves a place here.
I'm hoping the Plane of Metal touches on radioactive materials some.
Glimpses of elemental-touched spots on Golarion, especially beyond the Inner Sea, would be a real treat.
EDIT: Oh, duh. I want a vehicle that can travel the elemental planes. It's not fair that 5e gets to have all the Spelljamming goodness.
Red. I want to see lots of red. If people don't start calling it "the big red rage book" then they didn't go far enough.
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Redemption for the Elementalist. Really love the idea of giving some off-tradition casters access to it, since that makes its spell list a lot more interesting.
I love all the class options people have suggested here, but I'd be really keen on seeing some less obvious class support too. Hard to nail down specifics there, I just think it's always cool when I open a book and find something I really didn't expect. Give me Stormsinger Bards, Elemental Investigators, fighter feats that let you crack the Earth to trip people or create rippling shockwaves of Air with a swing of your weapon.
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As mentioned:
- Genie (arcane) and elemental (primal) eidolons for summoners; If there's ever a good spot for those that also synergizes well with the Lost Omens line (Impossible Lands being big on this stuff in Nex and Jalmeray), this is it - plus I'm super stoked about the idea of wood and metal eidolons of those types.
- Metal and wood genies, primal dragons, elementals, mephits, the whole stack of classic staples shared with those other planes, plus any new fun miscellaneous elemental critters.
- Metal and wood geniekin would be delightful, as would extra feats for existing geniekin types.
- Elemental archetypes! Both martial and caster-oriented - a boost to the Elementalist, a tanky earth-archetype, a mobile air archetype, a blasty fire archetype (or conversely, a gentle 'hearth' kind of archetype, for a less offense-oriented take on fire), a winter witch of some sort (for water ie. ice), the whole lot.
- New elemental spells, equipment and magic items (we know there's wood and metal ones at the very least) - y'gotta be able to deck your character in elemental stuff top to bottom, right?
- Places where the Elemental Planes both classic and new impact Golarion (I'd love to know more about Oprak!), doubly so if it's beyond the Inner Sea - is there a huge outburst of greenery from the Plane of Wood in Garund, Arcadia or Tian Xia? Is there a giant radioactive rust desert caused by the Plane of Metal somewhere?
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I'd like to see something like Dark Archive's format, but instead of the mini-adventures just seed of adventures to make room for elemental creatures, just like we had in book of the dead.
I want to see more about living and surviving on other planes, creatures, traps, items and Elemental lords plot and much more!
Was it stated in the panel that it would have beastiary of some sort? So far I've only heard about plane write ups and kineticist
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I believe they said so in the keynote when they announced it, but I’d have to rewatch to be sure
Was it stated in the panel that it would have beastiary of some sort? So far I've only heard about plane write ups and kineticist
Yup, it will have a Bestiary in there, it was said that the book will be like the Book of the Dead.
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Some Elemental-themed apocryphal domains would be useful for Clerics, Champions, & Oracles. Some of the elemental domains have some weak Focus Spells associated with them currently.
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Aside from that, I'd love to see the elemental augmentations make a return from 1E. They were a series of prosthetic-style items that were permanently bound into a character and imbalanced their elemental energies to give them powers.
Whhhhhuuuuuaaaat? That sounds amazing, I didn't know that was a thing. I would loooves for that to be in the book, hot damn
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Redemption for the Elementalist. Really love the idea of giving some off-tradition casters access to it, since that makes its spell list a lot more interesting.
I love all the class options people have suggested here, but I'd be really keen on seeing some less obvious class support too. Hard to nail down specifics there, I just think it's always cool when I open a book and find something I really didn't expect. Give me Stormsinger Bards, Elemental Investigators, fighter feats that let you crack the Earth to trip people or create rippling shockwaves of Air with a swing of your weapon.
I was trying to find the right words in my post but wasn't sure I conveyed it right. But yes would love some elemental options for non obvious classes.
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Aside from that, I'd love to see the elemental augmentations make a return from 1E. They were a series of prosthetic-style items that were permanently bound into a character and imbalanced their elemental energies to give them powers.Whhhhhuuuuuaaaat? That sounds amazing, I didn't know that was a thing. I would loooves for that to be in the book, hot damn
I quite enjoyed the old 3.5 “Magic of Eberron,” which had a number of elemental grafts invented by the gnomes of that setting, as well as a PrC for becoming an elemental yourself.
Runes for weapons with the new elements.
I'm genuinely unclear on what a metal rune on a sword would do. Radiation maybe?
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Wood rune could offer some sort of entangling/grab/trip effects.
Metal rune could mimic being made of other metal types - so you can toggle your main weapon between Silver and Cold Iron.
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Ideally we will get multiple diagetic representations of "how the planes are arranged" which contradict each other.
I strongly prefer the "blind men describing an elephant" approach to fantasy metaphysics.
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Ideally we will get multiple diagetic representations of "how the planes are arranged" which contradict each other.
I strongly prefer the "blind men describing an elephant" approach to fantasy metaphysics.
Not going to lie, I have been so far quite fond of the notes of this trend we've seen so far in other planar descriptions. "Unimaginably large enough that people's view of it is coloured by their limited perspective" is a good vibe to keep the planes feeling big and mysterious... and for that matter helps with the sense of scale when you consider that these planes relate to probably billions of material plane worlds.
At least so long as things don't stray too far into the opposite problem where no two details are consistent enough that there may as well not be an underlying structure. A structure so large that no one could view it completely is the vibe I like, but I would be soured quickly if there were no underlying logic, even if that logic was a bit flexible.
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I gotta second keftiu's recommendation from another thread of more frost- or ice-related options. I've wanted to play a character who's got ice powers like Frost in Warframe, but apart from white-dragon sorcerers or barbarians and the occasional undine, or Winter Witch, as well as a very, VERY specific archetype you kinda need to build a whole subplot around, you can't really build a character around ice as a gimmick. At least, not on its own. It's always in conjunction with some OTHER character aspect, like being Irriseni nobility, having dragons or water elementals in your family tree or entering into a covenant with Baba Yaga or the last Saumen-Kar. There's no "generic" way to have ice-related powers that you can more easily socket into other sorts of stories.
I miss the Boreal oracle mystery from 1e...
Wood rune could offer some sort of entangling/grab/trip effects.
Metal rune could mimic being made of other metal types - so you can toggle your main weapon between Silver and Cold Iron.
Wood rune would be cool if it worked that way; make it deal 1D6 Poison damage, and on a critical, the target takes 1D6 persistent Poison damage and reduces (one of) its movement speed(s) by 10, as barbed roots surround the target's legs, wings, etc., lasting for 1 round or until the persistent Poison damage is removed, whichever is greater (because seriously, so many monsters still immune to Poison). Maybe call it the Vined property, with a Greater Vined property making it overcome Poison resistance, and maybe even a Major Vined property to still deal half damage on enemies immune to Poison, because seriously, it's one of the weakest properties by proxy of so many enemies being immune to Poison; it's worse than enemies with Fire Resistance/Immunity.
Metal is a bit more tricky, as I would have expected, say, a Greater Shifting rune to function that way. (It's a missed opportunity, seriously, and it can have a clause of "only counts for overcoming resistances and applying weaknesses," so you don't have people cheesing special material property benefits.) That being said, a "Molding" rune that only works on metallic weapons that lets it change damage type as an action would be neat and helpful, since outside of ABP games, having back-up weapons doesn't work out well past the first few levels, and it can open up weapons doing different physical damage types while still being of the same function. Greater Molding could implement a specific trait from a list in addition to changing damage type, such as Trip, Disarm, Reach, etc.
Elemental eidalons please!
Ideally we will get multiple diagetic representations of "how the planes are arranged" which contradict each other.
I strongly prefer the "blind men describing an elephant" approach to fantasy metaphysics.
Not going to lie, I have been so far quite fond of the notes of this trend we've seen so far in other planar descriptions. "Unimaginably large enough that people's view of it is coloured by their limited perspective" is a good vibe to keep the planes feeling big and mysterious... and for that matter helps with the sense of scale when you consider that these planes relate to probably billions of material plane worlds.
At least so long as things don't stray too far into the opposite problem where no two details are consistent enough that there may as well not be an underlying structure. A structure so large that no one could view it completely is the vibe I like, but I would be soured quickly if there were no underlying logic, even if that logic was a bit flexible.
I occurred to me about a week ago when describing the dangers of Golarion's universe that the planes are much safer than most anywhere else. There's a dominating imbalance toward entering evil territory when one travels outside the thin shell on Golarion's surface, yet in the planes it's somewhat balanced between good & evil. Not that either situation applies to the elemental planes, yet it struck me as odd and makes me wonder what kind of balance those planes might have.
What balance would y'all enjoy?I think I'm leaning toward overtly hostile terrain with apathetic citizens too busy with their own internal goals/conflicts/etc. to wonder about mortal affairs (which funnily enough might be said of Golarion too re: visitors).
I think most of what I'd want is pretty well covered so far, but I want to see some elemental animal companions and familiars. Mephits and Wisps on the familiar side, and maybe some special elemental bonuses for companions.
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I'm not sure if this is the book to put it in, but I've been wanting a decay oriented druid since the playtest, since "rot" is a natural process! I'm assuming the plane of wood has some truly impressive compost.
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My wishlist in order of preference is:
1. A good cosmology mapping of the various planes in relation to one another
2. Elemental Genie Eidolon to round out Arcane options
3. Expansion of the Elementalist archetype
4. Some elemental general feats that anybody can take for a touch of energy goodness
5. Some shared class feats that anybody with the Primal spell list (and Arcane?) can take to give their spells some elemental flexibility. Perhaps in the form of meta-magics
6. This is way out there and something that may not fit this book as it could apply to any plane, but the ability to bring part of an elemental plane to the material for a short time. Mess with the environment in a given space (like 20-foot burst) to wreak some havoc for a while.
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I'd like a Primal Elemental Eidolon and an Arcane Genie Eidolon.
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I'd like to chime in on the maps idea and say that I certainly don't think there needs to be maps of like large portions of each Plane. But, I would enjoy smaller, loosely defined examples to give an idea of what being IN the Plane is like.
In my head, the Planes are indeed infinite, but given that most of them have static geography, one could approximate where certain places of interest are located. Like, I feel like you could map portions of them, just not all of it.
Otherwise I feel like it would be near impossible to locate places of interest. How does one find the City of Brass if there isn't an approximation of its location. Stumbling through the Plane of Fire in hopes you discover it seems likely to lead to a quick death.
Like maybe there are maps of say the Dominion of Flame and the Realms of the Living Goddess; but a large expanse of uninterwting and unmapped territory so massive, the only indication of how to travel between the two nations is an arrow saying "go that way".
Mephits *would* be awesome. Also the new Planetouched. Radioactivity. Metal and Blight Druids.
Mephits are maybe the coolest elementals around. So much utility with fly speed, breath weapons, and then other elemental themed abilities like fast healing, extra movement types, a few spells, immunities and resistances... Higher level mephits would be awesome but I don't know much about pathfinder lore, maybe they have to stay little turds forever T.T
I'm really excited for information about how visiting each plane would be like, I'm GMing for a player that is from the Plane of Air and just completely lost about what it means.
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Bloodrager archetype :)