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Maybe we'll get a occult/psychic methodology for investigators in dark archives.I really really hope so. I miss Psychic Detective. Granted, you could play a psychic with the detective background but that's not the same.
Why not just an Investigator/Psychic MC, or vice-versa?
Why not just an Investigator/Psychic MC, or vice-versa?Maybe we'll get a occult/psychic methodology for investigators in dark archives.I really really hope so. I miss Psychic Detective. Granted, you could play a psychic with the detective background but that's not the same.
Because actual subclasses are usually more effective at fulfilling a theme/idea than multiclassing due to getting unique and specific mechanics that support that idea. Same reason a Gunslinger isn't just a Fighter with a gun, or Battle Oracle isn't just a Cleric with a Fighter Dedication + RP, or a Magus isn't just a Fighter with a Wizard Dedication. Just look at all the subclasses/classes that could be made by just multiclassing, but are an actual class or subclass and are better for it.
I’d welcome something like the Rogue’s equivalent subclass - maybe let Devise a Strategem apply to spell attack rolls, alongside granting Psychic MC?
But as it stands, I do have a Psychic with an Investigator MC planned, and am very tempted by the reverse.
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Because actual subclasses are usually more effective at fulfilling a theme/idea than multiclassing due to getting unique and specific mechanics that support that idea. Same reason a Gunslinger isn't just a Fighter with a gun, or Battle Oracle isn't just a Cleric with a Fighter Dedication + RP, or a Magus isn't just a Fighter with a Wizard Dedication. Just look at all the subclasses/classes that could be made by just multiclassing, but are an actual class or subclass and are better for it.Why not just an Investigator/Psychic MC, or vice-versa?Maybe we'll get a occult/psychic methodology for investigators in dark archives.I really really hope so. I miss Psychic Detective. Granted, you could play a psychic with the detective background but that's not the same.
TBH I sincerely hope they do classes/subclasses that cover new themes before doing all those class/MC combinations out there.
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Subclasses take up a lot less page space than a full class.
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Because actual subclasses are usually more effective at fulfilling a theme/idea than multiclassing due to getting unique and specific mechanics that support that idea. Same reason a Gunslinger isn't just a Fighter with a gun, or Battle Oracle isn't just a Cleric with a Fighter Dedication + RP, or a Magus isn't just a Fighter with a Wizard Dedication. Just look at all the subclasses/classes that could be made by just multiclassing, but are an actual class or subclass and are better for it.Why not just an Investigator/Psychic MC, or vice-versa?Maybe we'll get a occult/psychic methodology for investigators in dark archives.I really really hope so. I miss Psychic Detective. Granted, you could play a psychic with the detective background but that's not the same.
I understand that. But part of the reason Paizo went with Class MC Archetype was to avoid creating the "your this class, but with this classes abilities" (which, mind you, was actually said, and isn't an assumption on my part). And as far as I can tell, the main benefit of the Psychic Detective Archetype in 1e was gaining abilities from the Psychic Class. So unless they made it an Investigator Subclass that was anything but that, Investigator/Psychic is likely the closest approximation of a 1e Psychic Detective, as it was. I'm not at all opposed to additional subclasses or any other option. But a 2e take on that idea will likely be very different.
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Why not just an Investigator/Psychic MC, or vice-versa?Maybe we'll get a occult/psychic methodology for investigators in dark archives.I really really hope so. I miss Psychic Detective. Granted, you could play a psychic with the detective background but that's not the same.
That's my plan. Investigator/Psychic MC to make a PF1-style psychic detective.
I'm really hoping that Psychics still have the Ancestral Mind feat. Using ancestries to get Cha-based Arcane or Primal cantrips like Electric Arc, and then casting them as Int-based Occult cantrips would be really nice for an Investigator/Psychic MC.
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So after hearing about all the Dark Archive stuff from Paizocon '22, I've heard some stuff, and I have a bunch of ideas. So I thought I'd share them and (hopefully) get some feedback.
1) So the Thaumaturge I actually want to play is a Kitsune who comes from a long line of oracles. See, her family has this tradition where each generation, they prepare one candidate by schooling them and preparing them for this 'test.' When the day comes they are told to go into a cave where a local kami 'tests' them for worthiness and if found worthy, they grant them the power of an oracle.
My character was this candidate, but for some reason, she never was tested. She went into the cave, but the Kami never appeared. Her conservitive parents were outraged and assumed the fault was hers, even though she did everything she was told, and so she had to leave. She now makes do by using what she learned in the lead-up to her 'test' to scrape by, using half-remembered traditions and cobbled-together religious theories.
2)Dwarven Runecrafter: A thaumaterge Dwarf who flavors everything as using 'good-ol Dwarven engineering and common sense.' Uses a Dwarven Clan Pistol as his weapon implement, and all of his esoterica is flavored as bits and bobs that have dwarven runes carved into him, and only him (or 'any reasonably knowledgeable dwarf') knows how to use them.
3)Ninja Thaumaturge: Apparently the mirror impliment lets you duplicate yourself. So a dex-based thaumaturge, maybe even with rogue dedication for sneak attack could flank with himself and pull off all sorts of naruto-style shenanigans.
Psychic:
1) Really the only idea I have for a psychic is that someone mentioned the ability to weild a weapon telekenetically. Assuming that is true, I think it would be interesting to build a psychic that desperately wants to be an Aldori Duelist, but was never accepted into any of the fencing academies . . . but one day their sword starts fighting on its own . . . .
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Growing up, Yasu was scorned by the villagers because to his lineage. They often referred him as "Yako-tsuki", the possessed fox. The head priest attempted to raise the young boy on the teachings of the Lady of Foxes, but he was a troubled and tricksy youth, who avoided hard work and pestered the villagers. One day, misfortune befell the village. Over the years, Kozu-no-Ha had slowly regained his might, combined with Yasuna's own spiritual powers, and was able to break the seals of his prison, which had deteriorated over the years. The village was destroyed by the Nogitsune, with Yasu being the only survivor thanks to his mother's love stopping his father short of killing him. Truly alone now, he would eventually come to meet a wanderer who would take him under his wing, teaching him many things, such as the art of Onmyodo.
When he became of age, Yasu began wandering himself, often taking on a Human guise, unwilling to reveal his true form thanks to the trauma he experienced in his youth; learning how to repress his fiendish appearance as well. He now searches for his parents, hoping to purge his father's evil from his mother and ultimately rid him from the world. He is often seen wielding a Khakkhara and Fighting Fan (which doubles as a Shortsword with no change in stats) in combat, and relies heavily on Fulu and Scrolls to supplement his abilities. His Implements are his Khakkhara (Weapon), a Wand shaped like a Kiseru, and the Tome in which he keeps his various scraps of knowledge and crafting recipes (all tentative).
Considering using a Stiletto Pen and flavoring it as an Iron Brush instead of the Khakkhara, but in not sure yet.
Inspirations are Abe no Seimei and Kamo no Yasunori, with maybe a sprinkle of Naruto.
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Revisiting the Psychics I've proposed before, now that we know all the Conscious and Subconscious Minds.
Ithuriel, the elven emissary from Kyonin, is definitely Gathered Lore/Unbound Step. Her studies of her people's history, culture, and magical achievements (especially with portals) allow her to travel Golarion (and beyond!) in search of all her far-flung kin.
Hope-6, the android troubleshooter in Numeria, is Precise Discipline/Oscillating Wave. Fragments of past lives combined with her explosive powers suggest she was built to be a weapon; she hopes to put those talents to a nobler use.
Asya, the dhampir (adhyabhau) spy on loan from Jalmeray to Geb, is Emotional Acceptance/Silent Whisper. Her hunger for feelings make her innately aware of how to manipulate them to her liking, whether making targets more docile - or wracking them with terror.
Hamsa the Dreamer, the runaway Qadiran partygirl, is Wandering Reverie/Infinite Eye. Dabbling in cult initiations and alien drugs permanently expanded her perception, but she doesn't really understand or control her psychic talents to any great degree yet.
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Occult list has heroism and monk dedication has flurry of blows, ki blast, perfections path, and plenty of other goodies. The telekinetic class path with mostly monk feats is going to make for a really fun skirmisher. ALSO, obviously grabbing monks resiliency bc you're a squishy caster
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Revisiting the Psychics I've proposed before, now that we know all the Conscious and Subconscious Minds.
Ithuriel, the elven emissary from Kyonin, is definitely Gathered Lore/Unbound Step. Her studies of her people's history, culture, and magical achievements (especially with portals) allow her to travel Golarion (and beyond!) in search of all her far-flung kin.
Hope-6, the android troubleshooter in Numeria, is Precise Discipline/Oscillating Wave. Fragments of past lives combined with her explosive powers suggest she was built to be a weapon; she hopes to put those talents to a nobler use.
Asya, the dhampir (adhyabhau) spy on loan from Jalmeray to Geb, is Emotional Acceptance/Silent Whisper. Her hunger for feelings make her innately aware of how to manipulate them to her liking, whether making targets more docile - or wracking them with terror.
Hamsa the Dreamer, the runaway Qadiran partygirl, is Wandering Reverie/Infinite Eye. Dabbling in cult initiations and alien drugs permanently expanded her perception, but she doesn't really understand or control her psychic talents to any great degree yet.
I'm so glad you're keeping Hope-6 as the name. ^^
I'm so glad you're keeping Hope-6 as the name. ^^
I can't help but think "Unsinkable 2" when I hear that name on an Android. With their whole rebirth thing going on and all that ^^
In light of the new stuff I learned, some of my plans for dark archives:
-Miko Garrido (nonbinary ifrit kitsune wizard MC dandy/thaumaturge): a double major enchantment/illusion (specialty school is enchantment, but illusion will be repped through Convincing Illusion and general spell preference) wizard that lives a double life as a scholar and a courtesan; the latter profession funding the thesis project of the former; which is a study about how magics of the mind can reshape reality. My hope is that Thaumaturge Dedication will give access to implements so that Miko can pick the mirror; on top of mirrors having practical use in illusions and making oneself presentable in court, and reflections having symbolism in revealing the truth of the soul, being able to self duplication is pretty great flavor for their theme of living double lives. Convincing Illusion and the Dandy feat Fabricated Connections lets me lean even more into this theme of reshaping reality through the mind by using deception to gain tangible, material benefit as well as tricking even observant people to see truth in their illusory spells.
-Lumia (agender aasimar fleshwarp thaumaturge loremaster): Lumia is the product of an experiment of a fallen empire to bind the essence of beings from the outer planes to construct bodies to create sentient constructs to serve for specific functions. In a previous life, bearing a name now lost to eons, Lumia was once an angel in service to Irez, and was responsible for collecting and maintaining books and scrolls for Irez's massive library. When she was captured, Lumia's essence was hacked up, peeled away, and reshaped; keeping her urge to collect and preserve books, but removing duty to celestial overseerers, and placed into a humanoid body shaped from clay alchemically infused with flesh and blood so that it functioned and felt similar to human flesh; allowing it to be healed through medicinal means, while maintaining the immortality of earth. The parts of her essence that were removed were used to fuel the ritual that binded the remaining essence to her now physical body. Afterwards, she served dutifully as an archivist in the empire's finest library, but after it fell, Lumia no longer had a master. She continued to spend her days preserving this archive, but as centuries passed, old memories began to spring back to her mind of a past life long lost. Eventually; a team of adventurers discovered Lumia and her lost archive, and while the two factions initially mistook each other as enemies, they eventually came to peace. Lumia decided to set off on a quest to discover the nature of her creation and the truth of these distant memories; bringing with her an array of relics scavenged from the archive that she felt strangely connected. Lumia's implements will probably be tome, wand, and amulet; to reflect her connection to books, Irez's preference for magic, and the amulet straight up being a holy symbol
*note: Lumia uses she/her pronouns despite being agender because deep down in the hidden parts of her mind, she's still connected to Irez; and uses these pronouns as a subconscious observance
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My plans are still rather vague, but I think Unleash Psyche just begs for a transformation sequence. Not a full anime one, more eyes (you know, gates to the soul/inner self) and attire (because I can).
I'm definitely doing something based on Scarlet Witch. The whole vibe she has in the latest iteration just really works for me, especially as basically a horror movie villain.
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I do wish there was a healing-based psychic. I’m tired of HAVING to go to clerics for healing. I get wanting clerics to be the best at healing but. . . Soothe is right there! Can’t and a trope of a lot of psychics is that they can heal (or sometimes take wounds onto themselves). Wonder why we didn’t get something like that. Would be nice to have a solid non-cleric healing option. Especially since soothe doesn’t care about negative healing PCs like Dampiers.
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I do wish there was a healing-based psychic. I’m tired of HAVING to go to clerics for healing. I get wanting clerics to be the best at healing but. . . Soothe is right there! Can’t and a trope of a lot of psychics is that they can heal (or sometimes take wounds onto themselves). Wonder why we didn’t get something like that. Would be nice to have a solid non-cleric healing option. Especially since soothe doesn’t care about negative healing PCs like Dampiers.
Note that any character with Medic archetype heals real well. And Forensic Investigator with it is on par with Cleric as far as healing is concerned IMO.
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I do wish there was a healing-based psychic. I’m tired of HAVING to go to clerics for healing. I get wanting clerics to be the best at healing but. . . Soothe is right there! Can’t and a trope of a lot of psychics is that they can heal (or sometimes take wounds onto themselves). Wonder why we didn’t get something like that. Would be nice to have a solid non-cleric healing option. Especially since soothe doesn’t care about negative healing PCs like Dampiers.Note that any character with Medic archetype heals real well. And Forensic Investigator with it is on par with Cleric as far as healing is concerned IMO.
Speaking as a guy with a forensic investigator/medic right now, they are still problematic. Unable to battle medicine each person more than 1/day (with one exception) is problematic. I’d rather have three free soothes in my back pocket like a cleric gets heals.
Speaking as a guy with a forensic investigator/medic right now, they are still problematic. Unable to battle medicine each person more than 1/day (with one exception) is problematic. I’d rather have three free soothes in my back pocket like a cleric gets heals.I do wish there was a healing-based psychic. I’m tired of HAVING to go to clerics for healing. I get wanting clerics to be the best at healing but. . . Soothe is right there! Can’t and a trope of a lot of psychics is that they can heal (or sometimes take wounds onto themselves). Wonder why we didn’t get something like that. Would be nice to have a solid non-cleric healing option. Especially since soothe doesn’t care about negative healing PCs like Dampiers.Note that any character with Medic archetype heals real well. And Forensic Investigator with it is on par with Cleric as far as healing is concerned IMO.
While it still can be rough, forensic investigators can battle medicine people once per hour, not once per day.
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Just stumbled across Ranatagi, an ancient Ysoki psychic tradition of from Casmaron and Vudra, that may be of dome interest. They have a knack for finding and exploiting flaws in reality, letting them do a lot of teleport shenanigans (like getting to other planets, for instance).
So if you want a Ysoki Unbound Step Psychic, that’s apparently a historic niche within Golarion!
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Sorry, meant 1/battle, not 1/day.
Still, my point stands, I wish there was a PSYCHIC healer build. The existence of other healers doesn’t preclude creating more. Love to see psychics that can do something crazy with soothe.
I get that completely. I was just inspired by your Cleric-only reference (at least I read it as such) and wanted to note there were indeed other ways to the healing role.
Note that, with all the skill feats they get, an Investigator should pretty easily be able to cast from scrolls with Trick Magic Item.
Another old character I think I would like to return to is Relica. Replica was a viridian non binary individual who was an occultist with the silksworn archetype. Each of their. clothing implements were tied to the various colors and what they symbolized in Varisian culture(trying to the connect those themes to a school of magic).
I'm thinking either a regalia implement focused Thaumaturge with bard dedication or a Bard with thaumaturge as an archetype could suffice in giving a thematic similarity if not mechanically
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The Mwangi Expanse book has a sidebar on High King Nkobe of the Mbe'ke dwarves, whose calamitous rule produced a number of artifacts sought after by certain occultists... a Dwarf Thaumaturge is sounding pretty fun.
Do we know how the Mind Smith archetype is going to function at all?
It was previewed in full somewhere, but I don’t remember where.
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The base is you get a weapon with one of four sets of stats, every day you get to pick if it's a sword (Slashing damage), Spear (Piercing damage), or Club (Bludgeoning damage), and you can manifest it as a single action like drawing any other weapon. Feats include stuff like a cone of Mental damage, ranged strikes, free runes, extra weapon traits, and the like. Oh, and a level 2 Skill Feat that lets you add +5 feet to your Leaps as a free action (which stacks with Powerful Leap to allow Speed-minus-5 horizontal leaps and 10 foot vertical leaps. Wall Jump-based Wall Running with this archetype is insane.
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Thaumaturge Simon Belmont.
It's really frustrating that this book doesn't introduce the mesmerist class. Perhaps it will become a archetype that requires some psychic levels?
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It's really frustrating that this book doesn't introduce the mesmerist class. Perhaps it will become a archetype that requires some psychic levels?
As much as I liked the class, I do expect that it's not coming back as a class or class archetype. Psychic is getting Charisma-based psychic casting and had a hypnotic stare feat in the playtest. That pretty much just leaves implanted tricks, which are an awfully specific concept to be brought into PF2.
I do hope we eventually get a psychic subclass focused on enchantments.
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It's really frustrating that this book doesn't introduce the mesmerist class. Perhaps it will become a archetype that requires some psychic levels?As much as I liked the class, I do expect that it's not coming back as a class or class archetype. Psychic is getting Charisma-based psychic casting and had a hypnotic stare feat in the playtest. That pretty much just leaves implanted tricks, which are an awfully specific concept to be brought into PF2.
I do hope we eventually get a psychic subclass focused on enchantments.
Not to mention the other major part of the mesmerist class-lying really well, doesn’t translate well with 2e’s tightly bounded skills. Given the biggest bonus you can get for a skill is around 2-3, which is considered big, dunno how 2e would handle something like 1e’s ‘+1/2 level to lying.’
It's really frustrating that this book doesn't introduce the mesmerist class. Perhaps it will become a archetype that requires some psychic levels?
At least you can still hope for a future Mesmerist. I'm pretty sure that the Thaumaturge is the PF2 replacement for the Occultist. :(
The base is you get a weapon with one of four sets of stats, every day you get to pick if it's a sword (Slashing damage), Spear (Piercing damage), or Club (Bludgeoning damage), and you can manifest it as a single action like drawing any other weapon. Feats include stuff like a cone of Mental damage, ranged strikes, free runes, extra weapon traits, and the like. Oh, and a level 2 Skill Feat that lets you add +5 feet to your Leaps as a free action (which stacks with Powerful Leap to allow Speed-minus-5 horizontal leaps and 10 foot vertical leaps. Wall Jump-based Wall Running with this archetype is insane.
Maaaaaaaan, that sounds way more limited than I thought it would be. Guess it'll do for a UBW implementation, but I really wanted a straight up "I pick this thing on the weapon list, it's in my hand now" archetype. Guess balance says that's a bad idea, all things considered... Still, it'll let me get close to making EMIYA, which is what I've begged for since the APG came out a few years back!
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The base is you get a weapon with one of four sets of stats, every day you get to pick if it's a sword (Slashing damage), Spear (Piercing damage), or Club (Bludgeoning damage), and you can manifest it as a single action like drawing any other weapon. Feats include stuff like a cone of Mental damage, ranged strikes, free runes, extra weapon traits, and the like. Oh, and a level 2 Skill Feat that lets you add +5 feet to your Leaps as a free action (which stacks with Powerful Leap to allow Speed-minus-5 horizontal leaps and 10 foot vertical leaps. Wall Jump-based Wall Running with this archetype is insane.Maaaaaaaan, that sounds way more limited than I thought it would be. Guess it'll do for a UBW implementation, but I really wanted a straight up "I pick this thing on the weapon list, it's in my hand now" archetype. Guess balance says that's a bad idea, all things considered... Still, it'll let me get close to making EMIYA, which is what I've begged for since the APG came out a few years back!
What you’re describing is the Soulforger Archetype.
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The devil is in the details, but mind smith sounds kind of cool and sort of what I was looking for when the Soulforger was first announced (and not the 'regular weapon but 1/day you get a minor buff' we got).
Shame you can't weapon swap more on the fly, but some of the powers still sound neat.
I will note that you can put runes on the weapon, and I saw nothing forbidding Shifting, so while it would take an extra action you could theoretically use Shifting to access any (hands-appropriate) melee weapon.
Niwt experienced profoundly vivid dreams her entire life, taking great joy in the strange and impossible vistas that greeted her when she left waking world. This passion led her to the First World city of Anophaeus, famed for its Eldest patron Imbrex and the potent dreams they share with the populace - dreams Niwt was keen to taste for herself. She closed her eyes on the first night within the city walls, exhausted, but eager to enjoy the journey’s reward.
The gnome awoke in a distant corner of the world, with no recollection of how or why she’d arrived there. Niwt could remember nothing of Imbrex’s dreams; worse, she could no longer dream herself, sleep bringing only a lightless, senseless void. Her wanderings brought her to dozens of people who claimed to have met her recently, but were total strangers. These mysteries vex Niwt, almost as much as much as the sudden manifestation of psychic talents she still struggles to control.
(Gnome with the Reflection versatile heritage, split in two by Imbrex for reasons unknown. I think she’s a Tangible Dream/Wandering Reverie Psychic?)
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What you’re describing is the Soulforger Archetype.The base is you get a weapon with one of four sets of stats, every day you get to pick if it's a sword (Slashing damage), Spear (Piercing damage), or Club (Bludgeoning damage), and you can manifest it as a single action like drawing any other weapon. Feats include stuff like a cone of Mental damage, ranged strikes, free runes, extra weapon traits, and the like. Oh, and a level 2 Skill Feat that lets you add +5 feet to your Leaps as a free action (which stacks with Powerful Leap to allow Speed-minus-5 horizontal leaps and 10 foot vertical leaps. Wall Jump-based Wall Running with this archetype is insane.Maaaaaaaan, that sounds way more limited than I thought it would be. Guess it'll do for a UBW implementation, but I really wanted a straight up "I pick this thing on the weapon list, it's in my hand now" archetype. Guess balance says that's a bad idea, all things considered... Still, it'll let me get close to making EMIYA, which is what I've begged for since the APG came out a few years back!
The Soulforger takes a specific weapon and binds it to themselves, hiding it away in a pocket dimension, and pulling it out when needed. UBW, if you're not familiar, is the ability to conjure any given weapon at any given time as circumstances change and needs arise. "I have a bow; now I have a spear; oh crap, now I have a hammer; now I'm dual wielding swords!" and all of that happens in one combat, across a few rounds. I was hoping the Mindsmith allowed the latter, but apparently it does not fulfil that specific niche quite as well as I had hoped from first impressions.
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Another new idea for Thaumaturge. A little Babushka/Abuela, her implements are at the very least her soup ladle(filled with love) that functions as a wand Implement, and her scarf(regalia). Here to travel and keep all those young adventurers safe using old wives tales, bedtime stories, and home remedies. Perhaps pick up medic or herbalist archetype.
Another new idea for Thaumaturge. A little Babushka/Abuela, her implements are at the very least her soup ladle(filled with love) that functions as a wand Implement, and her scarf(regalia). Here to travel and keep all those young adventurers safe using old wives tales, bedtime stories, and home remedies. Perhaps pick up medic or herbalist archetype.
Nice!