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You should be able to get a Dull Grey Aeon Stone with Continual Flame cast on it, which will orbit your head no hands needed. It'd probably run you around 25gp I think?


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roquepo wrote:
After some actual play, the only thing that i would say it is actually overpowered is Wings of Air. Permanent fly for oneself at 8 and then for the party at 14 is too much. I would make it so it has a 1 hour CD at level 8, then becomes just permanent at 14 (no need to use the actions, like, whats the point anyway) and then a 1 hour CD for allies. Baing able to refresh it out of combat every 5 minutes or so and starting every combat with its effects is stupid.

Does it need a full hour cooldown? I'm pretty sure I saw other Impulses that had a 10 minute cooldown that only started after the Impulse ended, might be a good compromise for Wings of Air that brings it in line with Focus Spells.

Just bringing it down to once every other ten minutes really restricts it, simply because you cannot assume it will be active at the start of combat.


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Martialmasters wrote:
Errenor wrote:
Unicore wrote:
Better than a shield cantrip, even if you don't block with either.
But also Shield cantrip almost never provokes AoO. But both Stone shield and element restoration does.
it also gives +2 to fort saves and +2 to your fort DC's

By rules those are technically already the same thing:

Core Rulebook pg. 448 wrote:
Sometimes you'll need to know your DC for a given saving throw. The DC for a saving throw is 10 + the total modifier for that saving throw.

I assume it's just reminder text in this case.


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If too much damage at long range is a worry then maybe it's time for a new trait that changes the damage dice at closer ranges.

Like "Focused d6: This ranged weapon is more effective at closer distances. Your attacks against targets that are within half of its first range increment changes its weapon damage die to the indicated value. This change applies to all the weapon's damage dice, such as those from striking runes."

Or the inverse if that is better, lowering damage at higher ranges instead of taking a range penalty.


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If it's actually underpowered then it can be buffed without a compromise. There is no need for tradeoffs unless it actually eclipses existing classes in power/versatility beyond its intended niche.

These "compromises" instead of buffs are what killed the Witch.


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My question is why does it need to be less accurate than other martials at only levels 1-4 (assuming that proficiency scaling is an error), 10-14, and level 20? What's so much weaker about its other features at 5-9 and 15-19 that it's suddenly balanced for this class to equal other martials? Is this class so OP for half of its career that it needs to take a -1 malus to hit for the other half? Is that even good design, for it to be relatively weaker at some levels so it can be stronger at others, what justifies this?

Also, what apex item is a Kineticist choosing? If you want to use your AoE save abilities and to not be at -1 to your DC compared to spellcasters, and -3(!) from level 19, then you have to choose Constitution. But if you don't choose Dex/Str then that puts you at -1 to hit compared to martials from 17-19 which goes to -2 to hit at level 20! Those are not trivial gaps.

Maybe as a compromise Kineticists should be allowed to choose any physical key ability score, but regardless their class DC still scales off of Constitution. So if you want to be Striking all day then you can pick Str or Dex, but if you want to be dropping that AoE like it's hot (or cold) then you can choose to focus on Constitution.


Does it bother anyone else that all enemies (including mindless!) intuitively understand how this affects their range increments? Would it be so bad if at the edge of someone's range this spell actually worked if they failed to identify it?


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How I wish Monks had a feature in their chassis that gave them an action to raise their guard, which occupies a hand, giving +2 AC and a feat to enhance it and allow Shield Blocking. I despise the fact that Monks that don't use shields are leaving AC on the table that only costs 2gp to grab, and interferes with almost nothing they do except their aesthetic.

Also, as some have said above, why do they allow the core feature, and damage booster, of the Monk to be poached by the archetype? A Human can grab multi-talented at 9th and then grab Flurry of Blows at 10th.

Too late now, but this and the Champion Reaction should have been guarded a little better IMO.


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Sanityfaerie wrote:
Djinn71 wrote:

You still don't get implement's empowerment if you're wielding two weapons.

"You don't gain the benefit of implement's empowerment if you are holding anything in either hand other than a single one-handed weapon, other implements, or esoterica, and you must be holding at least one implement to gain the benefit."

If you have a Sword Regalia implement and a Sword Weapon implement you are holding more than "a single one-handed weapon", and the fact that you're also holding "other implements" is irrelevant to that violation as they're still weapons.

I believe you're misreading it, unless you've seen clear adjudication to the contrary. It says that you must be holding an implement (actually, it says this twice - first by fundamental requirement of the action described initially and later by outright declaration) and then it limits you to holding nothing else outside of the following set:

- a single one-handed weapon
- other implements
- esoterica

If you have a weapon implement and a regalia implement (which is a weapon) then you are holding one implement and another implement, and need not dip into your "single one-handed weapon" allowance at all.

On the other hand, while that's important for certain areas of thaumaturge balance, it doesn't actually speak one way or the other to whether you can make implements that are not weapon implements out of weapons, as it would work equally well with a weapon implement and a non-implement weapon - either both work (by my interpretation) or neither do (by yours)

Which leads to another question: What if your regalia implement is a two-handed sword? What if it's a crossbow? Technically, by the rules as I can read them, that would still work.

note here that I'm not particularly happy about this conclusion. I don't want this to be the right answer. If I had to lay a guess on the rules as intended, I would guess that this was not intended... but I'm not seeing anything in the actual rules that in any way...

It's pretty simple, are you holding more than a single one-handed weapon? If yes then no implement's empowerment for you. I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is no rule that says stuff can't be two things. Just because you're treating a sword as a Regalia implement doesn't mean it stops being a one-handed weapon.

This line: "You don't gain the benefit of implement's empowerment if you are holding anything in either hand other than a single one-handed weapon, other implements, or esoterica" means that if you hold more than one (1) one-handed weapon you no longer qualify for implement's empowerment, no ambiguity. Yes the Regalia weapon is "other implements", but that does not stop it from being a second one-handed weapon. It doesn't get through by satisfying just one requirement, it also needs to not violate the single one-handed weapon restriction.


Ezekieru wrote:
LordeAlvenaharr wrote:
Now, I was watching and Reloading Strike says that you have to use a weapon attack or unarmed attack to be able to reload and use the hand crossbow. So it wouldn't work with the wand? And it has to have Gunslinger Archetype right?
I thiiiiiiiink they meant the Drow Shootist's Reloading Trick feat, at level 6. One action to Reload and Strike an unloaded hand crossbow.

Yep, this is the one. The only real problem with this build is that you need to waste a feat on Repeating Hand Crossbow proficiency at 4 to get out of Drow Shootist.

You can use stuff like Divine Disharmony to inflict flat-footed at ranged and Cursed Effigy to give them a penalty to saves against your Wand.


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Captain Morgan wrote:

Assuming the enemy fails a will save, sure. Command needs to land and the AoO needs to land. Temporal Twin just needs to land once. It also still works against mindless enemies.

The 1 day immunity just means it is a betrer spell for a prepared caster who prepares it once a day. And the basic strike thing is fine. Barbarians and non-flurry rangers tend to default to basic strikes since they don't get many specialized strike actions like the fighter. So do Thaumaturges and Champions.

The only real downside is it uses the reaction, and most martials should really have a good reaction by this point... But the thing is you usually only trigger one AoO in a fight anyway, because once the enemy sees you use it they won't trigger it.

It isn't an auto pick spell but it has legs with the right party for sure.

Probably better in a party with an Archer Fighter, especially if your GM disallows ranged Aid actions (which I've seen some do).

Also, really good in a party with an Opportune Backstab Rogue with Prep, assuming your GM allows the temporal twin of your rogue to count as an ally to the rogue. Hilarious imagery as well, get backstabbed by a clone of the Rogue you're fighting, get distracted and then get stabbed in the back again by the same damn rogue, with flanking and sneak attack!


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Thaumaturge in Free Archetype with Drow Shootist 2/4/6, then Archer Dedication + Crossbow Terror at 8th to amp a simple Hand Crossbow, which is your Weapon implement. Use a Wand implement in your other hand. Reloading Strike means you can make at least one shot a round with the Hand Crossbow using only one action.

Routine with a +1 Striking Flaming Hand Crossbow looks like 2d8+1d6+8 (you get +2 additional per weapon damage die, +2 Circumstance from Crossbow Terror, and +2 additional from weapon specialization) + Exploit Weakness, followed (or preceded) by Fling Magic with a basic save for 5d6+4 and potentially flat-footed, persistent damage, or reduced speed. Then add Energized Cartridge from Talisman Esoterica and you can get some really solid DPR if you ever get the chance to target multiple weaknesses at once.


aobst128 wrote:
Djinn71 wrote:
Sanityfaerie wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

A real weapon as an implement that is not Weapon implement seems OK by RAW.

Nothing prevents an implement from being useful in ways other than being an implement.

It allows for dual-weapon warrior shenanigans, though, which are otherwise impossible... and it seems to do so while still giving the implement boost to damage in both cases. That sounds like it's getting a bit beefier than it should be.

You still don't get implement's empowerment if you're wielding two weapons.

"You don't gain the benefit of implement's empowerment if you are holding anything in either hand other than a single one-handed weapon, other implements, or esoterica, and you must be holding at least one implement to gain the benefit."

If you have a Sword Regalia implement and a Sword Weapon implement you are holding more than "a single one-handed weapon", and the fact that you're also holding "other implements" is irrelevant to that violation as they're still weapons.

Not really abusing the "weapon as an implement" stuff, but I'm currently planning a bomb using Thaumaturge that has Regalia in one hand and a Bladed Gauntlet as a weapon implement, with a Gunslinger dedication for Quick Draw and Munitions Crafter. Free-hand should allow me to quickdraw the Bombs while still applying implement's empowerment, and still allowing weapon reaction. It's going to be a bit pricey getting bombs in the earlier levels, but until level ~3-4ish I'll probably rely more on a Rapier or a gun or something.

That sounds like a fun build but your advanced alchemy will be stuck at level 1 until 12th level. Alchemist dedication gets you reagents and access to quick bomber as well as better advanced alchemy at level 6.

Edit: I forgot about ability score requirements.

True, but you only need Moderate bombs until level 11, and they're only 10gp a pop. Gunslinger's Advanced Alchemy is better than the Alchemist Dedication's as well, giving you level -3 instead of level -5. Quick Draw is just a better Quick Bomb as well. You do miss out on Quick Alchemy though, which is pretty useful for Thaumaturge to trigger multiple weaknesses. If you have a truly absurd amount of time for retraining then going Alchemist first would be a better levelling experience for sure.

With how bombs interact with Exploit Weakness (triggering it on a miss) they're still pretty solid even when you're a die behind Striking runes at level 12 and 13.


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Sanityfaerie wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:

A real weapon as an implement that is not Weapon implement seems OK by RAW.

Nothing prevents an implement from being useful in ways other than being an implement.

It allows for dual-weapon warrior shenanigans, though, which are otherwise impossible... and it seems to do so while still giving the implement boost to damage in both cases. That sounds like it's getting a bit beefier than it should be.

You still don't get implement's empowerment if you're wielding two weapons.

"You don't gain the benefit of implement's empowerment if you are holding anything in either hand other than a single one-handed weapon, other implements, or esoterica, and you must be holding at least one implement to gain the benefit."

If you have a Sword Regalia implement and a Sword Weapon implement you are holding more than "a single one-handed weapon", and the fact that you're also holding "other implements" is irrelevant to that violation as they're still weapons.

Not really abusing the "weapon as an implement" stuff, but I'm currently planning a bomb using Thaumaturge that has Regalia in one hand and a Bladed Gauntlet as a weapon implement, with a Gunslinger dedication for Quick Draw and Munitions Crafter. Free-hand should allow me to quickdraw the Bombs while still applying implement's empowerment, and still allowing weapon reaction. It's going to be a bit pricey getting bombs in the earlier levels, but until level ~3-4ish I'll probably rely more on a Rapier or a gun or something.


I wish they'd just let us have the option to choose a physical stat for classes like these. It's obviously balanced because for 10 levels you have equal stats to normal martials like Rogue and Barbarian. From levels 5-9, 15-19 you can have an identical Strength bonus if you want.

Also opens build variety, I know some builds would still max Cha for social skills and Esoteric Lore, and I'd be fine if Cha was still tied to the class DC. I just hate these pointless gaps for half the levels.


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Martialmasters wrote:

This again?

This is not a flaw in the system. But a point of balance. Casters are not meant to be on the level of dedicated damaging martials.

I'm getting pretty sick of this strawman. People that are complaining specifically about attack roll spells just want them to be on par with save spells. If save spells do less damage than martials, then logically people who want attack roll spells to do equivalent damage to save spells want them to do less damage than martials.

The fact that they're "balanced" by clunky things like True Strike and Shadow Signet is part of the problem by the way.


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Blave wrote:

1. Get Quick Draw from an archetype (Duelist, Rogue or Ranger).

2. Have MANY Greatswords on your back.
3. Drop your weapon when you need to use an Implement.
4. Quick Draw another Greatsword to attack.

That's the best I can come up with, and it still sucks. It's like asking "What's the best way to make a dagger-wielding barbarian?" Just even worse.

You only get to free draw an implement when you're replacing an implement you're already holding, so this is still pretty rough.


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Arachnofiend wrote:
Notably if you treat combination weapons the way Darksol proposes then that would mean Gunslingers are legendary in the melee attacks of a combination weapon, which is obviously untrue.

How I wish drifters got that.


Might be salvageable with an AC mount. As long as you can get some movement along with two actions to cast a spell you aren't in too bad shape. It'll also make you concealed when your mount moves.


aobst128 wrote:
Deadly doesn't work that way. You only get 1d10 on a crit.

Have you read the deadly trait? Maybe look up the rule before correcting someone...

"On a critical hit, the weapon adds a weapon damage die of the listed size. Roll this after doubling the weapon's damage. This increases to two dice if the weapon has a greater striking rune and three dice if the weapon has a major striking rune."

It'd be nice if Fatal was just errata'd so that it also scales into the late game, when all the HP gets inflated.


LordeAlvenaharr wrote:


I'm currently focusing on a build where I have both hands free and attack with a bite, the idea is to start with Wand and then take Regalia, (I don't know what to take as a third choice), I'm trying to convince my GM to allow an Occult Dragon,(BattleZoo), for the flavor, but my second choice will be an iruxi, d8 bite and the attributes work well with Thaumaturge.

Would this not lead to you holding the Wand or Regalia to get the damage boost? Not seeing why any Thaumaturge would fight with both hands free...


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LordeAlvenaharr wrote:

"When you Strike, you can trace mystic

patterns with an implement you’re holding to empower
the Strike, causing it to deal 2 additional damage per
weapon damage die."
This excerpt is from the book, this last part made me doubt...

Unarmed attacks still have weapon damage die, go and look at Handwraps of Mighty Blows, they refer to weapon damage dice.

"For example, +1 striking handwraps of mighty blows would give you a +1 item bonus to attack rolls with your unarmed attacks and increase the damage of your unarmed attacks from one weapon die to two"


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SuperBidi wrote:
Just that, on average, they seem on par with martials.

I really wish that average was distributed a little more evenly across level 1-20. The early game for a lot of casters can be miserable, because as you level not only do you get way more spells, but they have greater effects even against on level, and above level, enemies. And you have to deal with things like not hitting the AC cap natively until level 15 when you get 20 dex... Really wish, for example, that a spell like Mage Armour meaningfully helped with that by giving you a +2 item bonus/+3 dex cap.

Personally I just stopped playing casters from level 1-~8ish, but maybe the Psychic will change that.


Ryuujin-sama wrote:

Maybe I missed it but can you use magic items for Implements? Other than probably magic weapons.

I am not exactly sure what you are trying to do with the Tengu Feather Fan. You would need to make a physical strike to use Cursed Effigy. I am not sure if any spells from the fan would use the Thaumaturge class DC, maybe with another feat, but the Fan doesn't seem to give you cantrips and only gives very limited uses of specific spells depending on the feats you spend on it.

The fan allows you to "Activate the fan to cast a cantrip you've gained from a heritage or ancestry feat" using your class DC, which in this case would be Thaumaturge.

Cursed Effigy: "As long as you are Exploiting Vulnerability against that creature, it takes a –2 status penalty to its saving throws against thaumaturge abilities or items that use your thaumaturge class DC."

In this case Electric Arc would be cast from an item that uses your thaumaturge DC, so the enemy would take a -2 penalty to saves against it.

Obviously you would still need to do damage with a physical Strike. Are people generally ruling that ranged works for that by the way? Seems weird given it says "After your attack, you grab a bit of blood, cut hair, or other piece of the creature’s body." But it's true the requirements don't say anything about a melee Strike.

Sanityfaerie wrote:

Does the fan require that you hold it?

It *does* require that you have access to the ancestry, and that you have feathers, which can make the bit where you grab other cantrips a bit tricky.

It's kind of vague, it requires an interact action to activate it and there is a PFS note saying it's a held item but depends on your GM I guess.

Adopted Ancestry should get you whatever cantrips you need I think, but luckily the best cantrip is baked into a Tengu heritage.


Cursed Effigy should work on the Tengu Feather Fan to let you give debuffs to the save against Electric Arc (or whatever cantrip you can get from a Heritage or Ancestry Feat) as it is technically coming from an item using your Thaumaturge Class DC. Might be difficult to fit in if you can't use it as an implement (maybe Regalia or even Wand would work? Regalia is probably the closest) but cool regardless.


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Just because some reactions call out disrupting doesn't mean that this is the only way to change the effect of an action, although some seem to have made an exception for this wording when it comes to Strides. Why? Sure movement reactions are triggered per square, but why are you taking that as precedent for move related triggers when you won't for other triggers? Nimble dodge allows for a reaction triggered by being targeted by an observed Strike and can alter the course of that Strike (even making it do nothing if it causes it to miss!) without mentioning the magical "disrupt" word.

Disrupt entirely cancels and action, which is not what the suggested readied actions actually do.

For example, suppose a cowardly Archer shot a Barbarian and then readied an action to flee if they tried to cut them down. This Barbarian uses Sudden Charge to close and Strike, causing the Archer to flee. This is not a disruption of the Strike, and to show why the Barbarian will now use their own reaction: No Escape. The foe tries to avoid the attack but ends up still in reach, so the Strike continues.

The same thing happens if a foe readies a Step instead of a Stride to avoid an AoO but is targeted by a reach weapon, they were outplayed. If they had actually disrupted the triggering action then it'd be stopped regardless, instead they merely changed the situation and not enough to avoid their fate.

Another fun one is someone with 4th level Silence cast on them readying an action to Stride next to a caster that tries to cast a Spell. Obviously a lot of these tactics will be telegraphed by a character only taking 1 action on their turn, although I'll admit that against mindless enemies these tactics could be abusable. That's already the case with a lot of tactics however, and is kind of the fatal flaw of creatures like Golems and other constructs. Still, the idea of PCs straight up outmaneuvering all foes with these tactics strikes me as some white room stuff that wouldn't work in a real situation with terrain and surprises.


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While some are against this for balance reasons (although the 2-action + reaction cost, + possibility of it not being triggered really allay that concern for me), I thought of a fun interaction. If you designated 'I am targeted by a Strike' as your trigger then it is entirely reasonable for a feint to trigger your reaction. Feints in general are also a good argument that the beginning of a Strike (before it lands) is a plausible observable trigger.

Forewarning, I haven't played with anyone using these tactics as a player or GM, but it sounds fun to me!


Captain Morgan wrote:
Having reviewed this finally, I do think you had room to make this less deadly. One glaring moment for me: requiring the sorcerer to use an action for a Medicine check to tell how close the enemy is to dying. That isn't the in the rules. Personally, since I switched to VTTs I just display enemy health bars. No numbers, but either a bar or some sort of mod that says whether a creature is badly injured, near death, etc. Wounds should be visible apparent, and while creatures mechanically don't get worn out as their HP approaches zero in narrative they should be looking worse for wear.

I may have a problem with too many modules... but have you looked at the Health Estimate module? It displays a description above tokens based on their current HP, with things like "Barely Wounded", "Wounded" and "Near Death". It's completely customizable and also has a colour gradient (default green = healthy, dark red = dying).

Only problem I've had with it is that it doesn't use the vehicle options ("Damaged" instead of "Wounded") for Constructs, which would be really nice!


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breithauptclan wrote:
Even for Readying an action to drink Time Shield potion, if the trigger was the Strike, then I would still have the Strike be resolved before the potion takes effect, because the Strike doesn't get disrupted. If the trigger was the enemy Stride to be within range of an attack, then the potion would take effect before the enemy's action to Strike. But that also means that the action can be used for something else instead of Strike.

And if the trigger wasn't a Strike, but being targeted by a Strike (as Nimble Dodge shows is very likely an allowable trigger, being something observable), what then? We know from existing reactions that you can apply an effect DURING an action that has triggered a reaction (+2 AC in Nimble Dodge's case) and that the effect of the reaction can change the course of the triggering action WITHOUT disrupting it (and with no special wording like "immediately", as Reactive Shield Block has). So why not in the case of a readied Stride? Or a Readied Trip in response to a Stride action? It seems to me that by RAW and RAI what should be done in this situation is to apply the effects of the Readied action and see how that affects the triggering action.

Note that in these cases the creature's action wasn't any more "Disrupted" than if you shield blocked all of a Strike's damage. The attack still happened, it's just that your reaction changed the effects of it.

Guntermench wrote:
Nimble Roll, which builds on Nimble Dodge and lets you move away, doesn't stop the attack it just lets you move after it. I don't see why you would allow a player to have a better reaction than a level 8 feat for free at level 1.

I wouldn't call a reaction that requires two actions of setup (and forewarning) better than Nimble Dodge, certainly it would be used less in actual play! Is it balanced, then, that the power of two actions + a reaction takeable by a level 1 character is more powerful than Nimble Dodge? Yes, two regular Strikes are certainly more powerful than Nimble Dodge and they don't even cost you your reaction!


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Guntermench wrote:
If you're Paralyzed on your turn, you can't use your actions, excepting mental only ones. Stunned is written the same way. Why is it different?

Because Stunned is explicitly mentioned in a callout box that says you don't lose your actions if you gain it during your turn: "Quickened, slowed, and stunned are the primary ways you can gain or lose actions on a turn. The rules for how this works appear on page 462. In brief, these conditions alter how many actions you regain at the start of your turn; thus, gaining the condition in the middle of your turn doesn’t adjust your number of actions on that turn."

Given RAW doesn't work for either interpretation, and this obviously tells you RAI, why would you not follow it?


Baarogue wrote:

drinking the potion would not prevent a strike from hitting you if the strike was what you reacted to, but if you drank it in reaction to an enemy striding to you the enemy would not then be able to strike you

What we're basing these statements on is in Actions with Triggers on CR 462, and then later in Disrupting Actions, same page. A reaction or action can only be used in response to the condition being satisfied - iow it has to happen to react to it.

Is there a rule that requires the trigger you set to be the completion of an action? Looking at the advice from the gamemastery guide it seems to recommend against doing things in such a gameified way, and instead base the reaction on things the PC perceives in character. From this I would assume that you could ready an action with a trigger of "someone swings a weapon at me", or more accurately "someone tries to hurt me", and if they perceive that then their reaction would be triggered. I haven't seen a rule that requires the trigger to be a fully resolved action or anything, and indeed we know from precedent that reactions triggered by a Strike HITTING can have effects that turn that hit into a miss without disrupting the action.

Another example, Nimble Dodge has the trigger of "a creature targets you with an attack and you can see the attacker." so is there any rules support to denying a similar trigger for a readied action? As far as I know the only limitation on Ready triggers beyond what a normal reaction can have is just that it needs to be something the PC can observe and explain in in character terms, which you can with being targeted by a big weapon swing for example.


breithauptclan wrote:

Basically, the way I see it - unless the reaction says that it disrupts the triggering action, then it doesn't.

So if you step away from a Strike as a reaction, but don't disrupt the Strike, then the Strike is still resolved. Its requirements to take the action (specifically that you, as the target, were within reach) have already been met when the action was taken.

So yes, the Strike would still get rolled and damage would get dealt as the dice land. Then after the Strike and your reaction, you would be farther away from the enemy and they may have to either switch targets, or Stride after you in order to reach you again.

So you need the reaction to specifically say Disrupt? Or you need the action taken when the trigger happens to reasonably disrupt the triggering action? So if you had someone Ready an action to close a door if someone started to Stride towards them, you would fully resolve the Stride action because Ready doesn't specify Disrupt, or do you resolve the Ready and then apply any reasonable disruption to the triggering action?

I would expect the rules to allow for a Readied action to drink a Time Shield Potion when an enemies tries to Strike at you for example, but from what I'm reading you may disagree?


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Some of this has been brought up already, but I'm putting all the rules text together to see if it at all makes sense if you run Stunned with a value as causing you to be unable to act.

Slowed says: "You have fewer actions. Slowed always includes a value. When you regain your actions at the start of your turn, reduce the number of actions you regain by your slowed value. Because slowed has its effect at the start of your turn, you don't immediately lose actions if you become slowed during your turn."

Stunned says:"You've become senseless. You can't act while stunned. Stunned usually includes a value, which indicates how many total actions you lose, possibly over multiple turns, from being stunned. Each time you regain actions (such as at the start of your turn), reduce the number you regain by your stunned value, then reduce your stunned value by the number of actions you lost."

It also says this about Stunned with a duration: "Stunned might also have a duration instead of a value, such as “stunned for 1 minute.” In this case, you lose all your actions for the listed duration."
Why would it need to say this if it was assumed that any form of Stunned would cause you to be entirely unable to act in any way while you have the condition?

CRB says: "Quickened, slowed, and stunned are the primary ways you can gain or lose actions on a turn. The rules for how this works appear on page 462. In brief, these conditions alter how many actions you regain at the start of your turn; thus, gaining the condition in the middle of your turn doesn’t adjust your number of actions on that turn."

Can't act: "The most restrictive form of reducing actions is when an effect states that you can't act: this means you can't use any actions, or even speak. When you can't act, you don't regain your actions and reaction on your turn."

Putting this information together you can see that the rules are contradictory; if Stunned with a value actually means you cannot act then it will never end as you never regain actions to reduce it. The writer of the CRB also seems to assume that gaining Stunned on your turn would not restrict you from acting on that turn. This is just incoherent with the language of Stunned if "You can't act while stunned" is taken literally.

A more forgiving reading of the rules is that the Stunned condition first states you cannot act and then the rest of the condition clarifies exactly how you cannot act. For Stunned with a duration you cannot act period, for Stunned with a value you cannot act for the next X actions, but can both before and after those actions. It may also be true that Paizo wants Stunned to deny reactions between turns if rumours of that Youtube ruling are true (still haven't seen the video), if so this interpretation is also contradictory.

The RAW is nonsense for both interpretations, but I really cannot fathom that the RAI is that gaining stunned 1 during your turn is supposed to end it given the problems it causes and the way the writer of the CRB seems to think it works.


breithauptclan wrote:
Ready also doesn't disrupt their action. So they do get to complete that first action that the monk reacted to.

So how would you run a readied action to trip someone triggered by a Stride? Would you wait to apply the effects of the trip until they'd completed their Stride action or would you apply it immediately and interrupt their Stride?


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YuriP wrote:

Now we will have a really efficient blaster spellcaster.

Fiery Body additional dice (now a + 1d10 due amp) and reducing the actions need to cast Produce Flame to 1-action + Unleash Psyche bonus damage + Shadow Signet can be very devastating.

My only doubt is if the char can still use Amps freely while unleashed or if is now always use a focus spell.

Oh! And now we have an official way to cast a cold damage Meteor Comet Swarm. Maybe now cast it as a Wish can be more acceptable to some people. kkkkk

I don't have the PDF, but based on what others are saying you can't use Shadow Signet with an amped spell because it disallows metamagic unfortunately. Might still be worth it, but probably want to stick to save spells for Psychic generally (as usual without Shadow Signet).


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Alfa/Polaris wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
It's a feature of the amp trait to make sure you don't have too much fun.
I'm not sure if they realized that they have a math-fixer item for spell attacks that's just metamagic. So that's a little rough. Only relevant at Lv 10 and later for now, at least.

That's the woes of trying to fix system wide problems with a clunky math fixing item I guess.


keftiu wrote:
I don’t know how much room “stronger Monk” has for design space.

A lot of their power budget is in their mobility and action efficiency right? Might be room for an alternate class path that trades speed and Flurry of Blows for highly impactful martial 2-actions or something.


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Alchemic_Genius wrote:
I'd see this maybe from a rune, but on a bomb, the persistent damage is part of the strike, so I'm not really sure that its so clear cut to say initial damage is the only part of that consists of the weapon's damage

I'm confused with this point, aren't the damage from runes part of the Strike in the same way as a bomb's? Mechanically they should work the same as bombs, except maybe for effects that specifically ask you to count Weapon Damage Dice (as you only use the base dice and Striking runes for that). I don't see any rules support for giving them separate rulings, if non-bomb persistent damage doesn't trigger it then bomb persistent damage also should not trigger it.

Here is the wording on Personal Antithesis btw:

"You improvise a custom weakness on a creature by forcefully presenting and empowering a piece of esoterica that repels it on an individual level; for instance, against a tyrant, you might procure a broken chain that once held a captive. This causes the target creature, and only the target creature, to gain a weakness against your unarmed and weapon Strikes equal to 2 + half your level."


Does anyone know if the weakness to your Strikes you can apply with Personal Antithesis applies to Persistent Damage from your Strikes?


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I don't see anything stopping you from taking Assurance on Esoteric Lore right? If you want to dump Charisma, or just remove the chance of flat-footing yourself in an important boss fight against an already researched creature, this would basically make you guaranteed to fail the check against on level and higher enemies, but not crit fail it.

At level 7 and 8 you would actually succeed against on level foes, and you only ever crit fail versus creatures ~6+ levels above you.


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Another problem Ancestry; Poppets have the construct trait, which say this: "When reduced to 0 Hit Points, a construct creature is destroyed" but unlike Automatons they do not have a rule like Automaton Core that contradicts this.

This falls under too bad to be true IMO, so I think it's safe to say that there are some mistakes in how some Ancestries are written RAW.

It seems like there ought to have been a "Living" trait which applies to most creatures that makes them need to breathe, sleep and have blood. It'd be nice if what it meant to be "Living" was explicitly described somewhere, it would be a little too onerous to add living to all those stat blocks now.

Maybe there should even be a defined baseline (you breathe, you eat, you sleep, you bleed etc.) for what PCs are that you do not deviate from no matter your traits unless you get an actual ability from your Ancestry or elsewhere that tells you to. I know that sort of thing annoys some people though.


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It doesn't work with bows because:

1 - IMO they don't spend any interact actions to reload (I know this one has already been debated on the forums)

2 - Even if you could "reload" it you still need two hands on the bow when you make a Strike, requiring you to drop your off-hand implement and causing you to not benefit from Implements Empowerment regardless.


Squiggit wrote:

Concealed after moving is really asynergistic with a curse that makes it so you can't move and cast spells.

Djinn71 wrote:
A Mature mount is probably fine to get a move, but even then some GMs might call that mitigation...

Does your GM tell battle oracles they can't wear armor, or prevent Cosmos, Tempest, Life, and Bone oracles from putting points in Constitution too?

IMO there are easier ways to tell someone not to play a certain class.

Not my GM, or me when I'm GMing, but I've certainly seen some deeply conservative takes on what constitutes mitigation on these forums!

For some reason I thought Quickened and Slowed directly cancelled each other, but given that's not the case I'd 100% allow that option to Time Oracles, but the Electricity resistance deniers might not.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
The trick is to figure out how to get an extra action so you can move and cast; presumably several spells you know can do this.

I don't know, Quickened doesn't work obviously because you can't directly mitigate the curse in any way. A Mature mount is probably fine to get a move, but even then some GMs might call that mitigation...

Concealed, and only after moving, is not strong enough to justify being in the major curse in combat IMO. Definitely a curse where you want to avoid the cursed state as much as possible, you're here for the focus spells (hopefully, only seen one) and the speed bonus, with the major curse being a very hard soft limit on your focus spells.


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Time Oracle sure has a brutal curse. Permanent Slowed 1 at major? Actually might be the worst curse, which is saying something.

Time Skip is a great focus spell though, 1 action to give an ally within 30ft haste for 1 round and +1 heightens for additional allies. Looking forward to seeing if the other focus spells make the downsides of that curse worth it!


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"Background" is general enough to cover everything, Skeletons and all. Problem is it's already in use.


Overwatch Dedication would work (it eventually let's you see around corners within 60ft), but the Project Image spell should just grant LoS to begin with given its level.


I've found Outlaws of Alkenstar pretty great so far to run, although that may be because of the full Foundry module support being so good. The only poor part of it so far is one full level that seemed super rushed, and looking at the XP provided there is no way to reach the milestone for the next level using pure XP.

It all seems to fit together pretty well though, I don't see any discordant genre shifts. You can't really expect the large city in the middle of the mana wastes, wedged between Nex and Geb, in Golarion, to just have frontier west themes after all. That wouldn't make any sense.


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SuperBidi wrote:

An effect, singular. A cold-based Meteor Swarm is a bunch of effects and as such you can't do it with Wish.

A cold-based Meteor Swarm is exactly as many effects as a fire-based Meteor Swarm.

What is the point of the third option of the Wish spell if you aren't able to produce any effect whose power level is in line with a 9th level or lower Arcane Spell, or a 7th level or lower non-arcane Spell? Sure, your GM has to agree that it is in line with those spells (same as anything else subjective in the game), but if they do then they should allow it by RAW.

This clause is separate and different to the "The GM might allow you to try using wish to produce greater effects than these" clause. It's effectively saying "the GM will allow you to produce any effect whose power level is in line with the above effects", in exactly the same way as it is saying "the GM will allow you to duplicate any arcane spell of 9th level or lower."

AlastarOG wrote:

If you want to play a mage that can design spells on the flyz may I suggest Mage: The awakening? It's a great system that helps you set will to power in a typical mage way.

But for pf2e every houserule (because that is what that is) has to be weighed carefully and can expose you to Gm regret after.

What does the third clause of the Wish spell allow you to do in your opinion? You are the one houseruling here (and that's fine!), not those running the spell how it is written.

RAW the Wish spell allows you to produce any effect that has a power level that is in line with a 9th level Arcane Spell.


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Lycar wrote:
Arcaian wrote:
But this is clearly different - Wish allows you to create an effect that has a "power level in line with an arcane spell of 9th level or lower". The question here is "does Meteor Swarm, but dealing cold not fire damage, have a power level in line with 9th level arcane spells" - if you answer yes, you have to be saying that the cold damage is the source of the increase in power level; the flexibility is being paid for by the 10th level spell slot.

You are forgetting that the flexibility already lies in being able to cast any arcane spell other then another 10th level spell, and on top of that any spell up to 7th level of spell lists you don't even have access to otherwise.

Now bending and twisting those spells on top of getting access to them in the first place may be more flexibility then the 10th level slot pays for.

The original question is: 'If in all the spells accessible by Wish, a player does find many that are a solution for the problem at hand, but not the ideal/optimal solution, is allowing the player to further bend and twist a spell to 'optimise' it covered by the Wish spell's power or not.'

Ultimately, every GM has to answer that for themselves, but I will say again, if only casters get to play that game, you are back at creating a caster/martial imbalance that PF2 tries so hard to avoid.

Pointed question here, do you honestly think that a cold damage version of Meteor Swarm is generally out of line with the power level of a 9th level arcane spell? Would you say that Meteor Swarm warranted a nerf if the spell currently did cold damage instead of fire damage? If not, then can you explain how it doesn't fall under the third option of the Wish spell?

Your description of a player looking for a solution "in all the spells accessible by Wish" is only allowing for two out of four explicitly allowed effects listed in the Wish spell. One of the clearly listed options of what you can produce with the Wish spell, without GM permission, is any effect that is in line with the power of a 9th level Arcane spell. If you think that an effect that is identical in damage to an existing 9th level spell, but with sidegraded damage type, doesn't fall under that description, then what does? This clause specifically allows the effect to be outside of existing spells as long as it is not out of line power wise. What use would this be if you decided that any effect that is different than an existing spell must have inherently more power simply due to adding to the flexibility of the Wish spell, and should therefore should default to the later GM fiat clause?

If you think that Wish is too powerful go ahead and nerf it, but I don't understand the argument that disallows swapping a common damage type to another by RAW, it seems exactly what the third option in the Spell is for tbh.


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Outstanding

5/5

This is an outstanding module with a little for everyone. Good combats, fun skill checks, and an all around fun time. Still my one complaint is that it doesn't fit the tone of season 6. This is a light hearted carnival like escapade and it rocks. But coming off of some of the more impactful modules it just feels weird to do a slice of life feel good module.

It is a very well designed repeatable as it has a lot to offer every time!


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Starship combat scks!

1/5

2 hors of hell.


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pretty mild

2/5

Not bad bat not great. Its a fast mod and good for brand new adventurers but its nothing to write home about.


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great combat but lore lacking

3/5

This is a great little combat mod. Feels very old school in how you investigate the temple. But it has its weak parts. It runs long especially with the starship combat at the beginning. There are too many places to roll. Play yourself into a corner if you have a very talkative party. Lots of role playing encounters that do not add to the narrative at all and are just time burners. And then the lawyer you want to see is brief and truncated. I'd like to know more about the hidden mysteries of the culture hidden in this temple. But you don't really get to learn much about it. It feels like it was setting itself up for a sequel , and there's no sequel to be had. So so this feels like a promising television series. That was canceled after its first episode. Fun to play, but don't think too much into it. Because you're not gonna get answered.


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So far so good

4/5

Was very hesitant going into what is basically the VA in space. Their are a lot of respectful cases of trauma in the mod. The story is pretty basic but all in all its a good module.


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better than average

4/5

better than average with a few frustrating bumps in the road. ITs still a fun ride. - David


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Sadly this is a colossal dud

1/5

Reviews are dead on with this one. Even prepping and maxing our gear we still had a hard time hitting the DC. Level 7 to 8 low tier with max bonuses of +20 to computers and engineering and still we needed to roll extremely high to make the DC. This one is just a slog as you feel like you are being punished for no reason. Its an interesting premise, like the metalzoic comics of the 80's but its not exciting, needless frustrating, and leaves you wanting more. Not worth it.


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Finally a tension packed adventure that has stakes

5/5

First time playing Starfinder I felt like I was playing a high stakes space opera and not a low stakes Saturday Morning facsimile of Star Wars. It is challenging and packs one hell of a punch at the end. I had a wonderful time and enjoyed it as all too often you get a group of players that say "I want to do something fun" and they go off with something half cocked or weird instead of sticking to the mission. This mod rewards you for staying on point and has consequences if you don't want to take it as seriously as it is presented. It pushed the parties limits and made you think twice as you engaged with the module. The immersion is real and it feels like you are part of something greater than just a one shot module of the week.

Only complaint is that their are so few repeatables in season 6 and I'd like to play this one again with a different character without having to resort to the expensive replay purchases.

Great job over all. - David


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Meaningless world building leads to a waste of time.

2/5

So many checks to start and learn about the planet but all this prep does not really pay off. It is very disappointing. Such a cool concept but you waste so much time over non-sense.

Starfinder does so much to try and get players to love starship combat yet this entire mod turns into a pain train to break your ship to get you stranded. Their are so many better ways to do this instead of just "well the mod calls for your ship to break so its broken." Their is no sense of urgency and every encounter or situation is easily healed up from. So what could be a gritty survival story turns into a strange nature hike.

Disappointing and frustrating.


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Holiday Surprise

5/5

One of the most eagerly anticipated modules of the new year. I was fortunate enough to play this close to the release date and on low tier. I have a hard time with the Macros to hide spoilers so I will keep this spoiler free. It has a very interesting and unusual start to the module to say the least. With a good mix of memorable combats on a variety of different types of enemies to combat. The good parts is that it does a good job of world building on Absalom station and you have a variety of skill checks that allow all classes to have a little fun. Several pop culture references are hidden like Gems in this modules. But unfolding the mystery is a little ham fisted. Their are a lot of different options you can pursue to try and solve the mystery but you really need a good GM to bring this to life.

Note: I really love chase scenes in Starfinder and this is a really good chase. Sadly even with extensive role play this mod is quick and lasted 1 hour and 45 minutes. The tone is also off, compared to how grim season 6 is having a holiday comedy special like this feels very out of place. Going in I thought it would be much more sinister due to the framing of season 6. Would have been better as a level 4 bounty because it is so short.

Circling back; I really liked this adventure. ITs charming and fun. Just too short.


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Weird

3/5

It is a really weird adventure a lot of the encounters just don't make much sense. Taken individually each encounter is pretty cool but when you thread them together it just doesn't make much sense. Encounters that dont have clear entry or exit points. A technological entity that doesn't have cameras everywhere to blow your cover. Its just an odd duck and feels like they tried to squeeze a much larger idea into the cookie cutter mold of a society module.


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Not my cupa Tea

1/5

The first half of the module is strangely similar to the Kent State massacre of the 1970's. The protests against the draft, the setting at a university, its kind of in poor taste for those of us that remember this tragedy. The module is painfully slow and if you have a pick up party that over analyzes everything your going to spend a lot of time on this module. And this is before you get to any combat. Just a bunch of RP and skill spamms that gives you a lot of fluff but it never feels really connected to a greater story or even contribute to the greater world building of Starfinder. This is a huge problem with the starfinder system. Lots of individual vignettes but the game never references the old lore and just continually generates new lore and new instances. Its a meh mod. nothing really stands out and its just a cool way to pass 4-8 hours on a Sunday night.


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Middle of the Road

3/5

Does not make sense, you need to make a bee line for the lore spire complex but a bunch of mini encounters are all in your way. My party wanted to leave all the emergencies behind and let the stewards handle it as we needed to get to the spire. Which would have had us avoid the module entirely. Its just a strange mod that expects you to just go with it and do all the stuff on the way. Add in a couple of flyers and we just wanted to float up above the city and fly to the spire. The module tries hard to get you to engage with it but its unweildy.


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Suspend your disbelief get in character and have fun.

4/5

ITs a good mod. If you RP the mod like your characters you will have fun. Don't over think it and just enjoy the ride. Its surprisingly well written with some good challenges along the way.


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Okay

3/5

I love the bad guys who are the Jinsuls. And their is a lot to love in this with multiple combats that push you to the edge of your seats. But then the mod takes a weird turn and tries to be like the "local helps you trope" from a b-film. It doesn't work as this comes out of left field and I wish their was a better lead up to why you want to trust this guy. final fight is kinda cool with a little extra. But it reads better as a story than as an adventure.


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Its a Trap!

4/5

So many fun and enjoyable traps and weirdness in this module. It is a stumbling in the dark episode that is just a strange and fun romp. I enjoyed it a lot.


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Pay for Boons you can't use.

3/5

Coming out of Gen Con I won an auction for a charity boon. Then I ran into this mod where you can't use any boons. So you pay for boons you cant use. It hits hard and sets up a sour taste for the mod. The mod is pretty solid but unspectacular. Each feels like a little vignette that would have been better as a stand alone adventure on their own. Lots of potential here it just feels like Starfinder keeps trying to set up these mini-adventures and nothing comes about due to it. Better than average, would rate it 4/5 if it did not have this boon restriction.


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Strange adventure; good time just a little off.

4/5

The organization strikes back! You head to a dig site and while investigating you discover that the organization is hot on your tails trying to silence you once and for all. Middle part of the mod gets bogged down in a sandbox that is kinda hard to navigate. The infiltration mission is okay but it just feels under powered, even the boss fight feels like it needed a couple of minions to up the stakes. It is also a quick mod and took roughly 2 hours and 45 minutes to complete. Its not as bad as some of the other offerings in Season 6 but still nothing really has invigorated me like the Jinsul war from season 1.


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Finally a winner in season 6!

5/5

This is a really fun and enjoyable module. Gives you a solid taste of what each of the new seeker's aspire to and how they will shape the future of the Starfinder Universe. I had a lot of fun and found this to be a lot of fun! Highly recommended and a winner in my books.

As a repeatable it falls flat. I've played this 4 times now and its the exact same thing every time. Felt more like grinding for reputation in WOW than playing a fun and different replay.


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A fun time was had by all.

5/5

This is a well rounded adventure with something to do for everyone. I enjoyed it and have to say I really enjoy the data scourge plot line. The story line and the adventures are really good all around.


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The Jinsul; a worthy adversary.

5/5

The 99 series is well done. 1-99 comes out with a winner! I love how well thought out the world building is with the Jinsul. They are terrifying advensaries and have a well constructed culture so they are more than generic bad guys.

The scenario plays out with a lot of pulse pounding adventure. I just love it! And the boon you get is really nice . . .


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Freaking Amazing!

5/5

The 99 series are always a joy to play. They are pulse pounding and the stakes are high. I swear if you get to play this on top hier tier or base low teir it will not matter. You will have an amazing time and feel like you are in a science fiction movie. I loved it!


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Fun and Charming

5/5

I really like this one. As someone who has worked tech behind the scenes you can realy appreciate how this module is put together. It has some good intrigue and is very well handled. I strongly recomend it!


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Not my cup of tea.

1/5

You start right off in starship combat. This is unsettling as most players do not understand how starship combat works. So you spend about an hour before the mod even starts trying to figure out starship roles and rules. Then its off to the adventure where you are punished for trying the peaceful solutions. This adventure has a very narrow view of how you are supposed to solve this and any deviation means you get punished. It is not creative at all and is strangely written.


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Excellent Bad Guys

5/5

I strongly recomend this series. The Jinsul are excellent bad guys and make every encounter memorable, challening, and terrifying. I enjoyed the story and just wish Piazo would make another memorable enemy like the Jinsul.


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