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Golarion, Dance all Night! featuring the Dirty Dancer and the Breakdancer as archetypes!
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We might not get one, I suspect we got SoM AND G&G partially to get the four classes in them, as well as guns, and some of the additional support SoM added into the game as soon as possible, since they were mostly huge Pathfinder 1e staples (and the inventor conceptual space is similarly beloved, usually manifesting as an artificer, which is different but has the same energy). I wouldn't be shocked if we were slowing down a little bit to draw out the release cycle of the game.
But I might be wrong, if there is an october rule book release, and it has classes, we'd be expecting to see those in a playtest shortly after the new year. I'd expect an inquisitor class, a kineticist class, or like, a shaman or something.
The really interesting thing (and this applies whenever the next rulebook would be due to come out) is what would the theme even be, I'm assuming that it won't be dark given the saturation of Book of the Dead and Dark Archive.
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Hopefully something that revolves around the Planes and how characters and Gms can use them.
I wonder, planar books are interesting and cool but I wonder how many people are running actual Planescape like campaigns? I think we'd need a Planefinder setting though Monte Cook's kickstarter seems to indicate that there is an interest. Guess we'll see
We will probably get A rule book, but based on a comment by James Case saying "if you were excited about this, bet you can't wait for next gen con!" I doubt it will have classes.
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It feels like classless books are setting books. The Mwangi book didn't have a new class in it, the Absalom book doesn't (I believe) have a class in it. So if they're going to do another classless book I imagine they'd be diving deep on another interesting part of the map.
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I just want Inquisitor, man. Please.
It would dovetail nicely with how much undead content this year is packing.
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I second the idea of a mainline book with no NEW Classes in it, instead, I'd much rather they spend that real estate on new Class Archetypes, Ancestries, Heritages of all types, Class Feats, Class "Roles" (such as the Rogue Rackets or Bard Muses), plain ol' regular Archetypes, Spells, Equipment, and generally speaking just a freaking ton of actual mechanical options and rules. I'd honestly prefer if the book had little to no setting or lore information in it AT ALL.
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Another thing to consider is long-term Class Support. When Dark Archive lands there will be 22 classes in Pathfinder 2E. How many more can there be before it starts becoming unwieldy?
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Well, first edition had 44 classes and I don't think "there's two versions of the rogue, barbarian, monk, and summoner" was what made PF1 unwieldy.
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I feel like there are still a lot of people who don't have their favorite class back yet (the inquisitor, the kineticist, the occultist, and the shaman were all popular classes, say) and every time you release a book without a person's favorite class, you might disappoint those people. So I don't think there's a reason to not put a class in a book where it fits.
Plus there are several classes from PF1 that were interesting, but the actual mechanics weren't great (e.g. the medium) and giving those classes the same treatment the Swashbuckler got (going from very bland to very fun) would be appreciated.
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I feel like there are still a lot of people who don't have their favorite class back yet (the inquisitor, the kineticist, the occultist, and the shaman were all popular classes, say) and every time you release a book without a person's favorite class, you might disappoint those people. So I don't think there's a reason to not put a class in a book where it fits.
Plus there are several classes from PF1 that were interesting, but the actual mechanics weren't great (e.g. the medium) and giving those classes the same treatment the Swashbuckler got (going from very bland to very fun) would be appreciated.
Equivalent options for Inquisitor, Kineticist, Shaman, and Bloodrager are what I’ll need to consider PF2 “complete” in terms of 1e class options coming over. I know a lot of folks want an improved Shifter, also.
Equivalent options for Inquisitor, Kineticist, Shaman, and Bloodrager are what I’ll need to consider PF2 “complete” in terms of 1e class options coming over. I know a lot of folks want an improved Shifter, also.I feel like there are still a lot of people who don't have their favorite class back yet (the inquisitor, the kineticist, the occultist, and the shaman were all popular classes, say) and every time you release a book without a person's favorite class, you might disappoint those people. So I don't think there's a reason to not put a class in a book where it fits.
Plus there are several classes from PF1 that were interesting, but the actual mechanics weren't great (e.g. the medium) and giving those classes the same treatment the Swashbuckler got (going from very bland to very fun) would be appreciated.
I keep thinking about how you would even do bloodrager when moment of clarity exists. To accommodate the action boost of freely being able to do spells compared to other instincts, rage damage would be neutered (I'm guessing). At that point you would just be like a fighter that hits a little harder with less accuracy, is squishier, and probably came packaged with a casting dedication like eldritch trickster. Is it a class archetype instead? If so, what would it gain and give up? Although, I guess you're saying it would be an entirely new class. In that case I'm guessing some magic damage raging wave caster barbarian-lite.
Since the Barbarian already gets "weird magical effects with rage" (e.g. growing huge, breathing fire, turning into a giant frog, etc.) mostly all we need to do to replicate the bloodrager is a way to combine spellcasting and rage (plus some more weird instincts).
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It feels like classless books are setting books. The Mwangi book didn't have a new class in it, the Absalom book doesn't (I believe) have a class in it. So if they're going to do another classless book I imagine they'd be diving deep on another interesting part of the map.
Those are all Lost Omens books, which naturally won't have any new classes in them, as that's a different product line altogether.
It was stated that books like Book of the Dead are the new form of Bestiary-style books (though more reminescent of D&D 5e's monster books like Volo's Guide to Monsters and Mordernkainen's Tome of Foes, which still have other forms of content both player- and GM-facing in them).
So I suspect that if we get a third core line release in 2022, it'll be another book in that vein - a deep dive on a specific kind of creature (with plenty of creatures of that type), with some thematic player options (new ancestries, class options and so on), plus some lore on how that creature family fits into the game world.
Fey, dragons, giants, elementals, fiends, celestials, constructs, monitors, aberrations, natural creatures (beasts, animals, fungus, plants) all seem like strong contenders for such books; Though I'd rather see some sooner than others (I'd love a dragon or elemental book but a book on giants would be a tough sell for me).
I could also be entirely wrong and we might get an even weirder book - with most of the basics out of the way and Paizo experimenting with the formats of new core releases, there's no predicting what's coming next anymore, for better or for worse.
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We might not get one, I suspect we got SoM AND G&G partially to get the four classes in them, as well as guns, and some of the additional support SoM added into the game as soon as possible, since they were mostly huge Pathfinder 1e staples (and the inventor conceptual space is similarly beloved, usually manifesting as an artificer, which is different but has the same energy). I wouldn't be shocked if we were slowing down a little bit to draw out the release cycle of the game.
If they permanently move from the 3 rulebook a year schedule they set for themselves, and which is clearly and publicly stated on the rulebook subscription page, I would expect them to announce something to that effect. So that subscribers and merchants alike can set their expectations accordingly, if for no other reason.
We might not get one, I suspect we got SoM AND G&G partially to get the four classes in them, as well as guns, and some of the additional support SoM added into the game as soon as possible, since they were mostly huge Pathfinder 1e staples (and the inventor conceptual space is similarly beloved, usually manifesting as an artificer, which is different but has the same energy). I wouldn't be shocked if we were slowing down a little bit to draw out the release cycle of the game.If they permanently move from the 3 rulebook a year schedule they set for themselves, and which is clearly and publicly stated on the rulebook subscription page, I would expect them to announce something to that effect. So that subscribers and merchants alike can set their expectations accordingly, if for no other reason.
I did not realize that, although since it says an average of, it kinda depends from where they're counting.
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I really really really want to see a new setting book. Mwangi Expanse was such a cool book. My #1 hope is something about Tian Xia, its a setting ripe to get an expansion and one that could really do with cleaning up on the cultural end. Alternatively I would also love to see something with Arcadia since its such a fun and odd fantasy setting. No need for classes, just lots of fun new Heritages and lore lore lore!
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I keep thinking about how you would even do bloodrager when moment of clarity exists. To accommodate the action boost of freely being able to do spells compared to other instincts, rage damage would be neutered (I'm guessing). At that point you would just be like a fighter that hits a little harder with less accuracy, is squishier, and probably came packaged with a casting dedication like eldritch trickster. Is it a class archetype instead? If so, what would it gain and give up? Although, I guess you're saying it would be an entirely new class. In that case I'm guessing some magic damage raging wave caster barbarian-lite.Equivalent options for Inquisitor, Kineticist, Shaman, and Bloodrager are what I’ll need to consider PF2 “complete” in terms of 1e class options coming over. I know a lot of folks want an improved Shifter, also.I feel like there are still a lot of people who don't have their favorite class back yet (the inquisitor, the kineticist, the occultist, and the shaman were all popular classes, say) and every time you release a book without a person's favorite class, you might disappoint those people. So I don't think there's a reason to not put a class in a book where it fits.
Plus there are several classes from PF1 that were interesting, but the actual mechanics weren't great (e.g. the medium) and giving those classes the same treatment the Swashbuckler got (going from very bland to very fun) would be appreciated.
Moment of Clarity is only first level, so a later career boost to it seems reasonable. It could even be a class archetype like the Gunslingers, locking you into a specific Instinct.
Plus Moment of Clarity is for any concentrate action, not just spellcasting. Improving the action economy on it - but for only spellcasting - doesn't seem unreasonable after first level. It could even turn casting a spell into a rage activator. With that, I don't even think the rage damage bonus needs to be that low.| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I really really really want to see a new setting book. Mwangi Expanse was such a cool book. My #1 hope is something about Tian Xia, its a setting ripe to get an expansion and one that could really do with cleaning up on the cultural end. Alternatively I would also love to see something with Arcadia since its such a fun and odd fantasy setting. No need for classes, just lots of fun new Heritages and lore lore lore!
Arcadia books are my #1 want - give me Fallen Razatlan!
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Since the July/August release wound up being somewhat genre specific, I think I’m hoping for something a little broader. Either exploration (both the game mode and hexploration/survivalist elements) or working with large groups of NPCs would work for my taste.
An interesting development is their intent to keep blending lore with mechanical topics. I’m not sure I like this particular balance, but we’ll see. But in that vein, I would like the exploration book to take the approach of a Pathfinder chronicling the farthest reaches pathfinders have gone, both on Golarian and beyond.
The organization book I’d want to see the perspective of multiple kinds of organizations from a simple border keep to the entire army of Gallowspire, in order to highlight how to integrate the campaign into these organizations at different levels. After all, the campaign is quite different if you’re members of the Firebrands gaining notoriety and spending favors, versus placing the party as the leadership of an entire kingdom.
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I would like a Primal/Planar book with weird elemental/fey stuff, and the Kineticist and Shifter would fit perfectly in that, seeing as they draw on weird non-material energies in a form that isn't spell casting per se. I'm getting my Cthulhu flavor stuff in Dark Archive, but maybe some fiendish/Forces of Choas stuff that 40k is known for (and that would be a good Inquisitor spot, alongside maaaayyyyybbbbeeeeeneutral Champions?) that has a bunch of curses and I SMITE THEE! stuff. I don't expect it soon, but I also want a water world type book that more fits with the Book of the Dead form of monsters, player options, and general world building stuff (I want a fishmen/merfolk ancestry, something aquatic that isn't Undine or Azarketi) but I can wait for that.
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What I'd like the most was if it were a book that expanded on the options for existing classes with class archetypes.
What I think it'll be: a thematic book akin to SoM, G&G and DA. Could be that it'll contain just a single class instead of two as Paizo slows down on the new class department.
That said, I'm with keftiu in wanting the Inquisitor, the Kineticist, the Shifter, the Bloodrager and the Shaman to eventually make their way into PF2, either as classes or as class archetypes or subclasses.
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I have very little interest in new classes but I do think having some more gish classes would be good since they (imo) made the mistake of making the magus arcane only.
My guesses would be:
- inquisitor = divine
- shifter = primal
- skald = occult
I personally would like more archetypes, spells, magic items, skill feats, general feats and class feats. Oh and more class archetypes, blood rager seems like a good option for a class archetype imo.
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- skald = occultm
Hmm. Hadn’t considered the skald as an occult wave caster, but that has a lot of merit. The challenge was always going to be making it play different enough from the barbarian AND bard to be a full class.
Especially if like the bard they have songs they can use each round; the lack of spell slots wouldn’t sting then.
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The medium also works as an occult gish, since ẗhe occult tradition is "spirit+mind" and the medium is all about "welcoming spirits into your head".
Occult would definitely be my preference for the medium, but some saw that passage in SoM as pushing them towards divine.
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TBH yeah the lack of non-arcane gishes feels like a really big hole. I'd agree with all the posters saying to cool off on new classes were it not for that big gap. Unfortunately, while cool, but the summoner and magus are too specific to really cover everything else.
... though admittedly, with enough refluffing that hypothetical synethesist paizo talked about eventually making might help cover some of those holes, but I'm not super optimistic for that.
The medium also works as an occult gish, since ẗhe occult tradition is "spirit+mind" and the medium is all about "welcoming spirits into your head".
I believe Secrets of Magic described Mediums as being divine.
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Look, whatever the books may be, I only have one ask. Crab ancestry. Not necessarily a *literal* crab (though I would not complain), but rather a crab inspired ancestry of sorts, carapace and all!
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Look, whatever the books may be, I only have one ask. Crab ancestry. Not necessarily a *literal* crab (though I would not complain), but rather a crab inspired ancestry of sorts, carapace and all!
I would love this! Five Torches Deep just added crabfolk in the newest book, and I welcome any non-mammal Ancestry.
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Hmm. Hadn’t considered the skald as an occult wave caster, but that has a lot of merit. The challenge was always going to be making it play different enough from the barbarian AND bard to be a full class.
Especially if like the bard they have songs they can use each round; the lack of spell slots wouldn’t sting then.
I would ditch the barbarian connection entirely and go more for the viking fighter angle. Maybe a spellcasting cross between bard and swashbuckler.
Doesn't match the PF1e fantasy, but that is for the best imo.A bard that inspires by doing things in combat and maintaining a state. Flavored appropriately.
But yeah, Skald's were very much in the sophisticated side of viking culture and really don't suit the raging warrior thematic in my mind.
The medium also works as an occult gish, since ẗhe occult tradition is "spirit+mind" and the medium is all about "welcoming spirits into your head".
I doubt we are getting medium any time soon though thanks to the Dark Archive releasing next year. Whatever book they follow it up with will have a different theme imo.
I am 99% sure Medium is going to be an archetype in the book. Or at least something that will provide that fantasy.
I can see that being a good move... heck I can even see it as a class archetype for oracles
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I continue to hold out hope for true slotless caster classes (Kineticist and Shifter being obvious classes to implement as such), but while I am pretty confident that they'll happen, I don't expect them to happen immediately. In particular, the two Dark Archive classes seemed to be intentionally pushing towards that from different directions. That's great, because it means that there's some solid intent there, but it means that if they're playing it right (and everything I've seen from Paizo suggests that they have good judgement for this sort of thing) they'll want to release the final version of those two into the wild and get some feedback before they start taking the next step. As such, I wouldn't expect the playtest for whatever book contains them until after Dark Archive has been out for at least a few months.
On the flip side, the timing on Secrets of Magic means that, by that count, this pretty much is the right time to start mucking about with new wave caster classes. I'm not sure which classes it's going to be, but I suspect that the next couple of classes up for playtest will be wave casters. Possibly Inquisitor or Bloodrager?
For Skald... there's absolutely space in this game for class archives that turn full casters into wave casters in exchange for some sort of upgrade elsewhere. Making druids into wave casters in exchange for advantages on their battle form spells is only the most obvious. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Skald wound up being that for the Bard.
Im still new to Paizo stuff....what is a wave caster?
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Im still new to Paizo stuff....what is a wave caster?
There are currently three kinds of classes in the game, divided by their approach to daily spell slots. "Martials", like the Fighter, Barbarian, or Champion, get no spell slots. (Some do get focus spells, however.) "Full Casters", like Cleric, Wizard, and Sorcerer, continually add spell slots throughout their career, starting at lower levels and going up, ending up with 2, 3, or 4 slots per spell level. "Wave Casters" - just the Summoner and Magus for now - get a max of 4 spell slots total, and those slots keep up with them as they level up. So they get a small number of powerful spells, but lack the depth of lower-level spells to spend on things like utility. Wave Casters are PF2's approach to a hybrid character.
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Im still new to Paizo stuff....what is a wave caster?
Those like the Magus and Summoner, with their four spell slots.
thank you! That makes a lot of sense now. I've never heard to them referred to as wave casters so I was very confused! I'll file them under warlock in the DnD part of my brain while I figure out how to do PF2
thank you! That makes a lot of sense now. I've never heard to them referred to as wave casters so I was very confused! I'll file them under warlock in the DnD part of my brain while I figure out how to do PF2
They're really not Warlock. Warlock is the thing that PF2 doesn't have yet, but that I (and at least a few others) are eagerly awaiting - a primary caster who's not tied to daily slots. They're a lot closer to half-casters, like the Paladin or Ranger. Actually, the 5e paladin with its whole smite schtick is in many ways parallel to the magus - fightery, but not as fightery as the fighter, and makes up the difference by burning a limited pool of spell slots to buff their attacks for burst damage.
The Magus is cooler, and their mechanics are more interesting, but that's PF2 for you.
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thank you! That makes a lot of sense now. I've never heard to them referred to as wave casters so I was very confused! I'll file them under warlock in the DnD part of my brain while I figure out how to do PF2They're really not Warlock. Warlock is the thing that PF2 doesn't have yet, but that I (and at least a few others) are eagerly awaiting - a primary caster who's not heavily tied to daily slots. They're a lot closer to half-casters, like the Paladin or Ranger. Actually, the 5e paladin with its whole smite schtick is in many ways parallel to the magus - fightery, but not as fightery as the fighter, and makes up the difference by burning a limited pool of spell slots to buff their attacks for burst damage.
The Magus is cooler, and their mechanics are more interesting, but that's PF2 for you.
I have so much to learn! This game rocks