"Justify" your favorite weapon.

[Sysryke]

Ooops. Hit enter and started with a blank post I think. Anyway . . . . . . .

Nobody actually has to justify themselves. We all have things we like for one reason or another, and opinions can't really be wrong.

What I'd like to discuss here, is a meeting of the minds between those who choose their weapon for aesthetic or flavor, and those who choose for mechanics. I'm not super good at the crunch, but I know there are certain weapons out there that are just held up as superior. What I'm looking for are examples of the ideas, builds, and corner cases where your favorite weapon really gets to shine. Probably difficult to do this with simples, but kudos to those who take the challenge.

So when is a morningstar the best choice? What about the old trust dagger, or a trident? The star knife? Maul? Longspear? etc.

Why does the weapon you choose belong on the table? What are the features that make it meet your characters goals/needs?

[Sysryke]

Aside from curiosity, the other goal of this thread is to provide a place where players looking for ideas for a new weapon can see a quick breakdown of the pros and cons of choices they may not have played before.

[Wonderstell]

Can't go wrong with the good ol' Bardiche.
Martial, reach, brace, d10 slashing, and a 19-20 crit range.

It's a solid choice available to most melee classes and is one of only three Reach weapons (one being Exotic) that crits on something better than a natural 20. I do enjoy critting and I do enjoy reach, so I end up using it a lot. The other martial reach weapon with a 19-20 crit range is the Tepoztopilli. Since the Fragile feature disappears when you've made a weapon MWK you essentially trade away the Brace feature for an additional damage type. But the name is kind of a mouthful so I'm staying true to my trusty Bardiche.

Shoutout to the Dueling Dagger for having the special ability that the Aldori Dueling Sword should have had.

[Mightypion]

Wonderstell wrote:

Bardiche is love, Bardice is live

An extra bonus, if you are using EItR, is that the bardiche is in weapon group axes. A martial, be he one or 2 handed, who has weapon focus axes can get a reach option from a bardiche and still enjoy wepaon focus and possibly weapon training boni.

[Maverick898]

Well I'm always fond of the Earthbreaker. Its just a big hold two handed hammer, and I'm sucker for that, in addition it does piercing and bashing, something that few things have a resistance to both.

But my favorite is the Scythe, less for its stats, though that x4 is amazing when it goes off. But because there is a story behind it. In a game that my friends and I played about 15 years back (3.5 days) The fighter (Straith) was using a scythe and had a very grim reaper look to him. But when our Cleric (Adon) removed his armor in order to cross a rickety bridge, he would die a tragic death while trying to save an npc who fell. In Honor of our fallen cleric, Straith put on Adon's armor and went about reeving foes in his fallen comrades name.

Screaming "Adon would have wanted it this way!" with tears in his eyes he slew everyone in his path. Such a memorable moment

[VoodistMonk]

Ooh, I like weapons... let's see if I can just pick a few [dumps out obnoxiously oversized green duffle bag full of military hardware]...

Cold Iron Sawback Kunai... never leave home without it... it's cheap, it's cold iron, it's a climbing piton, it's a crowbar, it's a saw, it's a little shovel, and it's a simple weapon with TWO types of damages AND a range increment.

Good old "nail-bat"... my Cold Iron Morningstar... it's another simple weapon with two types of damages, but these happen at the same time... pretty rad for a simple weapon. Swing for the fences all d@mn day with me nail-bat.

Longspear... I like Bards, and to me, being a good Bard involves buffing my friends... a surefire way to be stellar at buffing my friends is to take Flagbearer and fly the Banner of Ancient Kings from my +1 Impervious Whipwood Longspear. Plus, it's a simple weapon WITH REACH.

Probably the Starknife simply because Desna's Shooting Star allows one to align attack and damage on an ability other than Strength or Dex... for just one feat... thank you Desna for making the game less boring... variety is the spice of life.

Greatsword, duh. I don't know what possibly needs to be explained... it's a big. Freaking. Sword. And it's GREAT! Worship our furious Lord in Iron, Gorum, and Vital Strike on a charge... like Leeeeee-roy Jen-kinnnnnns!!!!

Oh that? Just a little black leather satchel full of my whips, saps, spiked chains, bladed scarfs, and rope darts... that $#!+ is for the bedroom. ;)

Bardiche, love the bonus against sunder and disarm, goes fabulously with a Weapon Master's Weapon Guard... make it Impervious, and make the handle Whipwood. Pick up Cut/Smash From the Air, and you might (might) be able to stand up to my Sunder Archers. Lol. Several of my characters have done god's work with a Bardiche, and my all-time favorite battle buddy used a Bardiche to great effect as we tag-teamed the battlefield like it was a cheap Calistrian "cleric".

Pelletbow, because 17-20/×4 bludgeoning ranged weapons are freaking hilarious.

[DeathlessOne]

My all around favorite weapons?

Hmmm...

In no particular order: Glaive. Longspear. Quarterstaff. Morning Star. Unarmed Strike.

Glaive: Its a reach weapon and one of my favorite 3.5e characters uses it.
Longspear: Reach weapons for those who can't use Marital Weapons.
Quarterstaff: My first PF1 character made use of the weapon to great effect. He was a Hexcrafter Staff Magus/Paladin. I have very fond memories of him.
Morningstar: This weapon is useful in almost any situation.
Unarmed Strike: Because you can't be disarmed without being ... dis-armed.

[MrCharisma]

I'm gonna shout out a couple of weapons that are terrible, but if you pump a sh ... a boatload of feats into them they become great.

The Whip:

To begin with it's an exotic weapon that deals 1d3 damage, it has the worst crit-range, it deals non-lethal damage and it Provokes AoOs when you use it. That almost certainly makes it the worst weapon in the game. The one advantage is that it can attack from 15 feet away.

So first you need to spend a feat on Weapon Proficiency to get past the -4 to hit. Next, Weapon Focus; it's borkng but solid, and more importantly it's a prerequisite for ...

WHIP MASTERY - Now you no longer provoke when attacking, you can actually use it to threaten AoOs avainst adjacent creatures and you can deal lethal damage. It's a big upgrade (removes the "Worst" tag), but it's still a bad weapon.

Next you need IMROVED WHIP MASTERY, which increases your threatened area to 10 feet, making this the only(?) 1-handed reach weapon in the game. It also gives you some fun flavourful abilities like moving small objects around the battlefield, and using your whip to swing across pits; this feat makes the Whip a battlefield-controller's dream, while also providing some fun flavour.

If you want to threaten AoOs then you obviously want Combat Reflexes.

That takes us basically to the end of our controller section, but there are 2 more feats to talk about: Weapon Finesse and Slashing Grace. Weapon Finess obviously helps the controller-type because a higher DEX means more AoOs, but if I'm being honest you'll VERY rarely see more than 2 AoOs in a round, so it's good in theory but likely won't make much of a difference. However Weapon Finesse does kake this a better option for classes like the Bard (who gets proficiency for free and can't use medium/heavy armour), so it's worth knowing it's finessible.

Slashing Grace is obviously good for anyone using Weapon Finesse, as it will likely add to your damage output. Also if you've gone for the Whip Mastery feats then you already have Weapon Focus. Since it's a 1-handed weapon I'd be remiss for ignoring the fact that Slashing Grace won't work with a Magus's Spell Combat ability, so an alternative is the AGILE property, which will work for them (and is an alternative to Slashing Grace for those who don't have the feats).

The last 2 optional feats are Piranha Strike (for extra damage) and Lunge (which would let you attack from 20 feet away on your turn).

So if we put that all together you spend 7-9 feats and you have yourself a Finessible, 1-handed weapon with DEX-to-damage that threatens 10 feet (and threatens a bazillion AoOs), can be used to attack at 15-20 feet and can be used to manipulate small objects on the battlefield or to swing across a chasm.

My other weapon to talk about is the Dagger, but that took longer than I thought it would so I'll be quick: it's only 1d4 dsmage but it has 2 damage types, a 19-20 crit-range and can be used in melee or as a thrown weapon. If you have enough bonus feats this becomes a weapon for all occasions.

EDIT: Oh, and for aspiring Whip users who don't like the low damage numbers there's the MONOWHIP from the Technolofy guide. It's got all the fun things that the whip has, but it does 2d6 damage, has an 18-20×3 crit range (that's right ×3), and all attacks are made against Touch AC. The disadvantage is that you don,' add your STR-mod to damage, but James Jacobs said that you CAN add DEX-to-damage with the Agile property (and he wrote both the Monowhip and the Agile Property for PF). This would absolutely be the best weapon in the game if you had all the feats listed above.

[Falling Rock]

Maverick898 wrote:

Well I'm always fond of the Earthbreaker. Its just a big hold two handed hammer, and I'm sucker for that, in addition it does piercing and bashing, something that few things have a resistance to both.

Just piercing, according to the sources I have. But it lends itself so easily to massive damage builds, who cares what the DR is, it's still gonna feel that hit!

I played a ranger/fighter through 18th level with an earth breaker. He took Power Attack and Furious Focus early on, then Critical Focus, Improved Critical, and the Vital Strike feat tree as soon as he qualified. He also bought an adamantine impact version as soon as he could afford it. Once he had Greater Vital Strike, he was doing 12d6+25 (or so) per hit, or 18d6+70ish on a crit. And only(!) 3d6+25 per hit if full attacking, or on an AoO or Cleaving Finish.

And he was not the most obscenely optimized PC in that game, by a long shot.

[Mark Hoover 330]

My favorite weapon has nothing to do with the weapon: the Halfling Slingstaff.

It is a contradiction; an inelegant weapon for a people prized for their dexterity and cursed with a lack of arm strength. I say inelegant because despite the ranged component requiring a good deal of skill and timing, the actual damage inflicted by both facets of the device is most largely influenced by brute force.

And yet... what I love about it is the simplicity. No ornate metal folding, no massive blade or clubhead festooned with spikes and grandeur. It is a walking stick, heavy enough at one end to give a villain a good braining, with a length of cordage or leather and a pocketful of stones.

Man, I've ALWAYS loved halflings. Before I could read my middle brother had the vinyl of The Hobbit and after listening to that a million times he read the book to me! I watched the Rankin Bass cartoon, read it cover to cover when I learned how, and I've been soaking up all things halfling ever since.

In 1e the race was its own class. By 2e I had the Handbook and played nearly every kit in it. My first 3e character was Benarin Stouthammer, a Stoutblooded halfling that went on to make brutal saving throw after brutal saving throw, clawing his way against waves of crushing antigravity so he could hoist his signature 20 lb sledge and smash the control console of Baba Yaga's Dancing Hut.

But...

When PF1 happened I rediscovered the Halfling Slingstaff. I love it, and still love halflings, but for the life of me I cannot figure out why THAT became their signature weapon. Sure, there's a sling to it, but it isn't finessable, requires Str bonuses to add to the damage, and without an alternate race trait and a specific combat style, you need another 2 feats just to load the thing without blowing a Move action.

But then, not every fight is about damage. Not every victory is about slaying your enemies. Just remember, all you gunslinging whippersnappers; before barrels, bullets came from slings!

[Perpdepog]

Just a quick note about the monowhip, it wouldn't qualify for feats like Whip Mastery because there isn't any language in the monowhip's text about being treated like a whip for any particular purpose.

As for me, my fave weapon has to be the Dire Flail. It's impractical and probably more dangerous to the person using it than the person they are fighting, but it looks awesome to spin around, and is responsible for the one time I can think of that an adventuring party I was part of decided to not fight someone.
There was a bandit or some other kind of highwayman standing in our path, spinning and twirling a dire flail, and we collectively said "Dibs on not fighting that guy," turned around, and left. IMO a weapon that can make it so you never have to fight is pretty darn good.

[MrCharisma]

Perpdepog wrote:

Just a quick note about the monowhip, it wouldn't qualify for feats like Whip Mastery because there isn't any language in the monowhip's text about being treated like a whip for any particular purpose.

Well the MONOWHIP does say: "Wielded like a whip", which implies it can be used with whip feats even if it doesn't explicitly say so.

Honestly, by strict RAW it's not usable with Whip feats or with Slashing Grace or the Agile property (DEX-to-damage apply DEX in place of STR, but if it won't allow STR damage then there's no "in place of").

However, James Jacobs disagrees with both of those assumptions (or as some sticklers would call them: "RULES").

JJ's thoughts on the Monowhip:

JAMES JACOBS wrote:

Ser Clay wrote:

Any thoughts on the Monowhip qualifying as a Whip for feats/abilities? This weapon intrigues me a great deal. The tapped-together glasses Power Gamer(tm) in me wants to build a tech savvy worshiper of Callistria that Crusader's Flurrys with these.

It absolutely should.

JAMES JACOBS wrote:

Aldarionn wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

If you can finagle a way to gain Dex to damage with a monowhip, then yes indeed you can apply that modifier to your monowhip. The monowhip only prevents Strength from modifying damage... which makes it more or less a great weapon for a character who has a Strength penalty. If you can get another ability score to adjust damage to the weapon, it works fine that way.

Slashing Grace not counting for light weapons is, I can only hope, an error that will be eventually cleared up in an errata... although that's not my call, alas. My assumption is that this text was initially meant to say something like "choose any one-handed or smaller slashing weapon," since there are no flavor reasons to prevent swashbucklers from using light slashing weapons, and since light weapons do less damage than one-handed ones I can't think of a game balance reason to limit it as well. But again... not my call. FAQ the question though, and maybe it'll get fixed!!!

The agile weapon quality would work fine on a monowhip, in any event.

That's news to me. Can we get an official clarification/errata on this?

The Monowhip disallows strength from modifying damage.
The Agile weapon property lets you apply Dexterity to damage in place of strength
Ergo, if you cannot apply strength to damage, you cannot replace adding strength to damage with dexterity because there is nothing to replace.

At least that's how the vast majority of people have assumed it works per the RAW in all such cases.

For what it's worth, I invented the monowhip and the agile weapon property. I'd let Agile add Dex to the monowhip in my game, and that was absolutely the intent of the two to let them work.

The flavor is that no matter how hard you swing a monowhip, it won't do more damage because there's not really any mass to work with. It cuts where it cuts. But using Dexterity to aim better and to hit more accurately WOULD make a difference.

Now JJ would also be the first to tell you that he's "Not a rules guy", and the fact is that you're correct about it technically not being Rules As Written. But for anyone looking for Rules As Intended you can't get much better than a dircect quote from the writer (unless that quote is also from the creative director).

[zza ni]

Nodachi
60 gp, 1d8-1d10(small-medium), 18-20/x2, S or P, brace.

being a martial pole-arm mean it can be used along a heavy shield with the 'shield focus' + 'shield brace' feats by most combat oriented classes. that let you fight with BOTH a 2 handed weapon for 1+1/2 str and big power attack damage AND have the shield bonus. getting the best of two melee fighting styles. (2-handed & sword and board)

my warpriests usually try to get a clawhand shield so i can cast even with the weapon and shield at hand.

i should also mention that it's a straight up upgrade from a falchion.
same high crit range but deal more damage and cost less! (also it got brace and can deal piercing damage).
had a GM who insisted that it should be an exotic weapon and putting it in the martial group was a print mistake.

[Name Violation]

Hook Lance. 3gp for a martial reach weapon, and only 4.5gp for a Nexavaran Steel one.

Never make a lvl 1 martial without it.

Special shout out to Naginata, not as popular as the lucern hammer, but I still got love for it. Was playing the pregen samurai in a scenario one time, and the BBEG killed the mount. That opponent was not worthy of my katana. Nat 20 with naginata, max damage x4 crit. I brought down the dishonor.

[Mark Hoover 330]

I think the net gets a bad rap being Exotic, but it targets Touch so a penalty for non-proficiency might be acceptable. It's a cheap, light debuff for close-quarters combat. The only drawback in my opinion is the fact that you can only Entangle up to one size category bigger than the wielder.

[AceofMoxen]

It's hard to beat a really big sword. Greatsword or Bastard sword.

[Dragonchess Player]

From April 2020:

Simple:
battle aspergillum - inexpensive, yet versatile; great for undead (+20 gp for alchemical silver, blunt for no damage penalty from alchemical silver and good against DR /bludgeoning like skeletons, fill with holy water to do damage vs. incorporeal undead/shadow demons)
dagger - extremely useful as a tool as well as a backup weapon
javelin - decent ranged option for certain concepts (double weapon, two-handed weapon, weapon/shield, etc.) that make it difficult to switch between bow/crossbow and melee
longspear - reach weapon
spiked gauntlet - can't be disarmed, doesn't impose penalties on using hands for other things
underwater light crossbow - one of the few effective ways to get ranged weapon attacks underwater

Martial:
amentum - cheap way to increase javelin range increment
composite bows - some of the best weapons
hooked lance - x4 critical, reach, trip
light shield - for weapon/shield bash TWF
nodachi - slightly better damage than falchion, P or S, brace
starknife - decent melee and ranged option; even better with feats like Starry Grace, the Startoss Style chain, and Ricochet Toss

Exotic:
falcata - one of the best DPR weapons
halfling sling staff - combined with Slipslinger Style (plus magic stone, warpriest Sacred Weapon)
repeating heavy crossbow - for a gnome with Master Tinker, Obsessive (Craft (Weapons))
tekko kagi - basically gives Improved Disarm for one feat (Exotic Weapon Proficiency) instead of two (Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm) and without requiring 13+ Int
temple sword - one of the better weapons available to a monk without dipping, spending a feat, or taking a specific archetype
whip - 15 ft reach, good for maneuvers and/or to deliver spells via Spellstrike (blade adept arcanist or magus)

If using Technology Guide:
chainsaw - 3d6 with 18-20/x2 critical, especially if you can get enlarge person and lead blades; fairly affordable (2,700 gp, uses 1 charge per hour [or fight])

Specific concepts may push toward other weapons (e.g., a character going for trips and TWF with light flail and sickle), but the ones above among the more attractive choices.

[Andostre]

I like heavy flail.

It big and spin around and go WHOOSH.

Then it spin and swing and it go CRUNCH and sometimes SPLAT.

Then I pick up coin purse nobody is using and go home.

[VoodistMonk]

Andostre wrote:

I like heavy flail.

It big and spin around and go WHOOSH.

Then it spin and swing and it go CRUNCH and sometimes SPLAT.

Then I pick up coin purse nobody is using and go home.

This is basically my go-to mindset with the Morningstar/Greatsword/Bardiche. Lol.

Swing hard, always. Sometimes things go SPLAT.

But, basically, big weapon break stuff and things... life is good.

[Firebug]

Battle Poi, because it's damage type is Fire (not Slashing/Piercing/Bludgeoning). Which makes things interesting.
Also Shuriken for 'free' quick draw, since for drawing they are considered ammunition. Best if they are also Durable and Adamantine for 61 gp each.

[Darigaaz the Igniter]

Adamantine Heavy Pick

Good for breaking in to places, breaking out of places, breaking things in general, lockpicking, coups-de-grace, fighting two handed, fighting one handed, fighting golems, fighting while underwater, fighting while grappling, and much, much more! Act now and for 3008gp we'll throw in a free holster!

Side effects include a d6 damage die and only critting on a 20. If problems persist, you're not hitting them hard enough.

Cold iron arrows with alchemical silver weapon blanch. 12gp for 20 and in low levels lets you bypass two types of DR at the same time.

[MrCharisma]

Dragonchess Player wrote:

If using Technology Guide:

chainsaw - 3d6 with 18-20/x2 critical, especially if you can get enlarge person and lead blades; fairly affordable (2,700 gp, uses 1 charge per hour [or fight])

If the technology guide is available you can use a GRAVITY CLIP instead of Lead Blades (probably costs more, but still not too much, and it won't take actions to cast in combat).

[Mark Hoover 330]

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

Adamantine Heavy Pick

Good for breaking in to places, breaking out of places, breaking things in general, lockpicking, coups-de-grace, fighting two handed, fighting one handed, fighting golems, fighting while underwater, fighting while grappling, and much, much more! Act now and for 3008gp we'll throw in a free holster!

Side effects include a d6 damage die and only critting on a 20. If problems persist, you're not hitting them hard enough.

Cold iron arrows with alchemical silver weapon blanch. 12gp for 20 and in low levels lets you bypass two types of DR at the same time.

Does that pick come with Mending? If not, better muster up the emeralds and find a villager...

[Ryze Kuja]

I'm a sucker for crit-fishing weapons, so anything 18-20 is my jam.

[Andostre]

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

Adamantine Heavy Pick

...fighting while grappling...

Is that just because it's a one-handed weapon, or is there another advantage to having an adamantine heavy pick while grappled?

[Darigaaz the Igniter]

Andostre wrote:

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

Adamantine Heavy Pick

...fighting while grappling...

Is that just because it's a one-handed weapon, or is there another advantage to having an adamantine heavy pick while grappled?

because it's a one-handed weapon

[Mark Hoover 330]

Ryze Kuja wrote:

I'm a sucker for crit-fishing weapons, so anything 18-20 is my jam.

Funny enough, none of the optimized melee types in my megadungeon game are geared towards crit-fishing, but at level 7 the guy running the paladin convinced the other 2 melee types that all 3 of them as well as his divine mount should all take the feat Outflank since they end up flanking often.

A couple weekends ago was the first time they used it. All 3 players had forgotten that a Crit grants an AoO to someone with the feat in the flank with the Crit dealer. Literally an hour later they're taking a 5 minute break to grab plates of chips and discuss the highest crit-range weapons they have and how they can expand them...

[Mark Hoover 330]

Oh, and speaking of crits and polearms... I'd like to throw out an honorary mention for the Fauchard. A PC in that megadungeon game got one that was modified with an embedded Ioun Stone so that he has proficiency with the weapon.

It is a 2h polearm that deals S damage, has Reach and Trip. It deals 1d10 Medium and gets an 18-20 x2 crit range. If you don't have Eastern Weapons in your game, this isn't a bad weapon to bring to the table.

[Andostre]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

an embedded Ioun Stone so that he has proficiency with the weapon.

I love that idea.

[Wonderstell]

MrCharisma wrote:

I'm gonna shout out a couple of weapons that are terrible, but if you pump a sh ... a boatload of feats into them they become great.

Continuing in that same vein, here are some cheesy ways to make certain weapons better.

Flickmace

One level of Okayo Corsair Swashbuckler + Weapon Adept + Versatile Design Flickmace.
Or
One level of anything that gets Swash Finesse and Weapon Focus->Weapon Versatility.

Now finessable and can get +5 ft reach with a Blue Scar Swordmaster's Flair.
The advantage of the Okayo Corsair route is that it takes a single feat and grants you proficiency as part of it. You'd however have to rely on RAI to qualify for the Blue Scarf Swordmaster's Flair as the archetype forgets to include items in the abilities that normally requires a piercing weapon.

Double Crossbow

"Because of its size and weight, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll if you’re proficient with it, or –8 if you’re not."

Technically the -8 penalty is a nonproficiency penalty. So it can be reduced by effects such as Arms Master (trait), Quick Learner (trait), Combat Competence (AWT), or the three FCBs that reduce the nonproficiency penalty (Hobgoblin Rogue, Kitsune Oracle, Dwarf Oracle).

So a kitsune Oracle that has lowered the penalty by 7 or someone with the Arms Master trait will actually have better accuracy than someone proficient with the weapon. This does of course lock you out of any content that requires proficiency like Improved Critical or Rapid Reload, but it's workable. You pretty much need to enchant it with Shadowshooting to solve the reload issue so you won't need Rapid Reload either way.

[Scavion]

The Longsword. What a perfect majestic weapon of the highest order. Pretty much anyone cool can use it. Not too clunky, not too small. A d8 is a respectable amount of damage. 19-20x2 Criticals are frequent enough and punchy. Use it in 1 hand with a shield. Forgo your shield bonus and wield it in both hands for extra PUNCH. Get Weapon Versatility and MORDHAU a fool or thrust the blade home.

My Armiger in a Carrion Crown game used a Longsword throughout all 6 books. His trusty +1 Undead Bane Holy Longsword that was slowly upgraded across the books. Due Diligence was it's name.

[MrCharisma]

Scavion wrote:

The Longsword.

Yeah the Longsword has 2 kind-of-hidden advantages as well.

1. It's THE most common weapon found in APs, so you're much more likely to fond some awesome suoer-weapon that's perfect for the coming encounter if you specialize in Longswords.

2. It has some good feat support. Not quite up there with the Scimitar (as far as I know), but you can get things like Iomedae's Shining Sword and give a free action Bless to all your allies on a charge.

It's a solid weapon that'll have you more excited to find loot than that over-tuned Fauchard user (Fauchard = best, but when's the last time you found one while adventuring?)

[Joey Cote]

Sigh, anything that the adventure gives me that the party can actually use. I am so sick of large and small sized weapons with nice abilities that are vendor bait because no one can use them without taking a hefty penalty.

[Eldred the Grey]

Dagger
Darkwood Club
Heavy Mace
Longsword
Horsechopper
Shortbow
and a particular favourite the Gladius

Simple and thematic weapons which all fill a niche but can also allow you to create a solid/memorable character around.

EtG

[Mark Hoover 330]

Andostre wrote:

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

an embedded Ioun Stone so that he has proficiency with the weapon.

I love that idea.

Yeah, a quick aside: in PFS you can add Ioun Stones to your pathfinder compass thing, so I gave the players a magic fauchard with 2 "gem-shaped" indentations. In a previous encounter they'd found an Opalescent White Pyramid (Proficiency with 1 weapon) and it seemed to fit perfectly into the haft of the fauchard. Currently they're hunting for an Ioun Stone that would fit into a Prism shaped slot which is outlined in the color green (intended for a Cracked Pale Green Prism that grants +1 Competence for Attack rolls)

[the David]

Sysryke wrote:

So when is a morningstar the best choice? What about the old trust dagger, or a trident? The star knife? Maul? Longspear? etc.

The dagger is your backup weapon when your main weapon does bludgeoning damage, and the morningstar is your backup weapon when your main weapon does slashing damage. This way you'll cover all your bases with just 2 melee weapons. Ranged weapons are a different story, though.

The longspear is what your reach cleric uses if they don't have proficiency with any other reach weapon.

[Dragonchess Player]

Generally speaking, IMO almost every character should be prepared with weapons in the following roles:
Ranged Weapon (plus ammunition or multiple copies/magic/feats for throwing)
Primary Melee
Secondary Melee (optional for some concepts; should probably be a different B/P/S damage type as primary)
Backup Melee (at least one; probably light for use when entangled, grappled, etc.)

In some cases, a weapon choice can fit into more than one role (Ranged/Primary Melee for starknife or halfling sling staff, a "typical" low-level wizard may only have a couple daggers for "Primary"/Backup melee in addition to a crossbow for Ranged when not casting, etc.). Note that natural weapons and unarmed attacks should definitely be considered as filling the Primary, Secondary, and/or Backup melee role(s)*.

*- IMO, even a character whose primary focus is on natural weapons or unarmed attacks should carry at least one manufactured melee weapon for use against enemies where touching them is a bad idea (certain undead, oozes/slimes, etc.) and/or for a different damage type to penetrate DR

[Heather 540]

Dragonchess Player wrote:

Generally speaking, IMO almost every character should be prepared with weapons in the following roles:

Ranged Weapon (plus ammunition or multiple copies/magic/feats for throwing)
Primary Melee
Secondary Melee (optional for some concepts; should probably be a different B/P/S damage type as primary)
Backup Melee (at least one; probably light for use when entangled, grappled, etc.)

In some cases, a weapon choice can fit into more than one role (Ranged/Primary Melee for starknife or halfling sling staff, a "typical" low-level wizard may only have a couple daggers for "Primary"/Backup melee in addition to a crossbow for Ranged when not casting, etc.). Note that natural weapons and unarmed attacks should definitely be considered as filling the Primary, Secondary, and/or Backup melee role(s)*.

*- IMO, even a character whose primary focus is on natural weapons or unarmed attacks should carry at least one manufactured melee weapon for use against enemies where touching them is a bad idea (certain undead, oozes/slimes, etc.) and/or for a different damage type to penetrate DR

Agreed. I always have 3 weapons on all my characters. The only exception is indeed my natural attackers. But they still have ranged backups. And most of the backup melee weapons are kunai because they're so useful.

[Evilserran]

I've aways loved earthbreakers, but i don't know why. Maybe the name? Maybe its more fun to imagine smashing someone with a massive hammer/club. Earthbreaker has always been my fave though.

[TheKillerCorgi]

My favorite is the Double Hackbut which is the weapon with the highest damage which can technically still be used in the "choose target, make attack roll" way.
Also you can dual-wield them.

A butchering axe or an earthbreaker are actually better for maximum damage but I love the image of someone dual wielding two huge cannons too much. Especially if you add in Titan Mauler.

[Sysryke]

Evilserran wrote:

I've aways loved earthbreakers, but i don't know why. Maybe the name? Maybe its more fun to imagine smashing someone with a massive hammer/club. Earthbreaker has always been my fave though.

Thematically I completely agree. I love me a big smashy hammer, and I always associate them elementally with earth.

Mechanically, I've seen some good recommendations for mauls or sledgehammers being bigger/smashier though.

Aside from my aesthetic preference though, the only justification I have for my hammers, is that I like reliable base damage over theoretical maxes and/or crit fishing. Swords have the better crit chance, and axes the better crit max, but the multiple dice of hammers ensures that I get a decent minimum damage, while still have a shot a comparable non-crit maximums. I don't roll crits often enough for me to care to try and build around them.

[ShroudedInLight]

I don't feel like doing links right now but:

1: The Flying Talon
This thing is basically a whip without all the fuss. Sure you can't ever threaten with the weapon but it doesn't take 9 feats to be usable and its a light reach weapon for the Magus' out there.

2: Waveblade
You gain proficiency with this as a monk and it crits on an 18-20. Nearly every monk I've ever made tries to grab a Keen Waveblade asap. We make all these extra attacks per turn, might as well use them to fish for crits!

3: The Blade Boot
This is an awful weapon, it has nearly no redeeming qualities. I still love it to pieces, its just so flavorful. That this isn't a Monk weapon is criminal.

4: Elven Branched Spear
Its a finessable reach weapon that doesn't require worshipping Shelyn. Whoo! It also gives bonuses on AoOs because its just a damn good weapon. If you're a finesse character and don't need a free hand or a shield you should buy into this whenever you can afford the Ioun Stone (Elves get it for free!)

5: Switchscythe
Who even thought of this thing? Its a scythe that folds? Why, what purpose does this serve, other than being awesome?

6: Orc Hornbow
Ever thought, "you know, archery isn't strong enough" in Pathfinder? Well, what about a dice step over the regular Composite Bow. Sure thats only a little extra damage by default but if we use Gravity Bow suddenly we are throwing 3d6 arrows instead of 2d6 arrows and thats worth 3.5 damage. Hehehehehe

7: Traveling Kettle
There is something about beating people up with kitchen equipment that is extremely satisfying. This is one of those moments.

[Sysryke]

I don't know if there's a build for it, but to your last I would add a cast iron skillet.

[Darigaaz the Igniter]

Sysryke wrote:

I don't know if there's a build for it, but to your last I would add a cast iron skillet.

And a mithral waffle iron.

[Mark Hoover 330]

The Chef: Catch Off Guard, Throw Anything, and Shikigami Style to start. They carry heavy ladles, traveling kettles, cast iron skillets, and a collection of cleavers, knives and forks. They should also dabble in alchemy. Their armor is light, preferably an apron, with the words "Kiss the Cook" emblazoned on the front. Optionally their helmet is a tall, padded white hat rising off the top of the head. You might even give them Improved Dirty Trick for using spices to the eyes or up the nose, forking a piece of an enemy's clothing to a doorframe, etc.

[DeathlessOne]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

The Chef: Catch Off Guard, Throw Anything, and Shikigami Style to start. They carry heavy ladles, traveling kettles, cast iron skillets, and a collection of cleavers, knives and forks. They should also dabble in alchemy. Their armor is light, preferably an apron, with the words "Kiss the Cook" emblazoned on the front. Optionally their helmet is a tall, padded white hat rising off the top of the head. You might even give them Improved Dirty Trick for using spices to the eyes or up the nose, forking a piece of an enemy's clothing to a doorframe, etc.

*eye twitches*

*scribbles down a few notes while cackling madly*
Now the Wrecker curse is actually useful.... Mwhahahaha

[Heather 540]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

The Chef: Catch Off Guard, Throw Anything, and Shikigami Style to start. They carry heavy ladles, traveling kettles, cast iron skillets, and a collection of cleavers, knives and forks. They should also dabble in alchemy. Their armor is light, preferably an apron, with the words "Kiss the Cook" emblazoned on the front. Optionally their helmet is a tall, padded white hat rising off the top of the head. You might even give them Improved Dirty Trick for using spices to the eyes or up the nose, forking a piece of an enemy's clothing to a doorframe, etc.

My Dwarf Warpriest Kotri would get along well with your character. And sell him all of those weapons. She's a blacksmith that can use her crafting tools to fight. We ran into some plant creatures once. Away went the warhammer. Out came the fabric scissors to do some pruning.

[Sysryke]

Mark Hoover 330 wrote:

The Chef: Catch Off Guard, Throw Anything, and Shikigami Style to start. They carry heavy ladles, traveling kettles, cast iron skillets, and a collection of cleavers, knives and forks. They should also dabble in alchemy. Their armor is light, preferably an apron, with the words "Kiss the Cook" emblazoned on the front. Optionally their helmet is a tall, padded white hat rising off the top of the head. You might even give them Improved Dirty Trick for using spices to the eyes or up the nose, forking a piece of an enemy's clothing to a doorframe, etc.

I love this! Best way I've seen to convert the March Hare from Burton's take on Alice in Wonderland.

[lordjulius]

Rapier. Used by your bard with Butterfly sting feat to pass your crits over to the Barbarian with the Great Axe.

[baggageboy]

Ah it's been a while, but this thread got me. I'm an optimizer at heart, so stats always call to me, but there's a few that are loved for more than raw power. Here are some of my too faves.

Cold iron sawback kunai: Glad to see this is still getting some love here, I'm not sure you can technically make it sawback (depends on how you read the rules) but it's the original do everything utility tool for your level 1 character in a budget.

Cold iron morningstar: Solid damage can be two handed for more, can be finessed as a swashbuckler (big plus) and coverts two damage types while almost everyone is proficient, yes please.

Dueling dagger: All the utility of the dagger, plus more for a little more gold

Sling: Free, adds strength to damage, can't be beat for a level 1 character, and stays relevant for ages as a backup for brawny Martials as a backup

Club: Not as "cool" as a quarterstaff I'll admit, but does almost everything just as well and can be used in 1 hand at need.

Cestus: Undroppable simple blunt weapon with 19-20 crit? Oh and you can do piecing damage

Rapier: Dex to damage at level 1 with the right class. Hard to beat

Lucerne Hammer: Cheap, reach, great damage, two damage types, also just cool, what's not to love.

Now for the more interesting choices.

Elven Thorn Blade: Everything good about the rapier, plus bonus to confirming crits and slashing damage option. Just know you'll never find a one. Also dex to damage via feats is slower

Broken-Back Seax: A bastard sword but better. Same number of feats to use, but you can do piecing damage by default. Requires 15 strength, Very fun "thugbuckler" weapon. Also nice that it's a smaller weapon role play wise, easier to justify getting into places than huge swords/polearms.

Fauchard: crit fishing with reach and a shield. How to maximize DPD with 3/4 BAB and minimul feat investment

Waveblade: Too good to not mention, two damage types, finessible, 18-20 crit, brawlers and monks proficient.

Dwarven Giant sticker: A reach spear with 2d6 p or s, oh and a racial proficiency. Tasty.

Boarding Gaff: A reach double weapon. Two weapon fighting where you don't have to constantly move for full attack. I still haven't done a build for this but it's so so tempting.

There are several others I love, but these are the one I come back to over and over again, honorable mentions include falchion, quarterstaff, gladius, halberd, longbow, and orc horn bow