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Ok, I think I'm gonna drop the disarming stuff. They don't need it. I'm going to lean into crit fishing with Tristan (he's the Swashbuckler) That'll be pretty easy with a scimitar and basically getting Improved Critical at level 5. I can delay the Cavalier level on him until I can get Outflank. I'm not sure if I should give Christie (the Rogue) the Cavalier level at one or wait until 5. I want to give her Pared Opportunists to share.
Yeah. That's why I want to rebuild them. I feel like I need to do so anyway even if I could play them together.
I think I'll go with Constable. Daring fits better thematically, but overlaps mechanically. And Improved Unarmed Strike is useful for a backup weapon.
Think I should dip Cavalier on these guys? So they can each share a teamwork feat? Are there any archetypes that trade away the mount but keep Tactician?
Yes. The characters are twin nobles whose family was murdered and their lands, titles, and fortunes were stolen from then when they were children. As adults, they plan to steal it all back. Phantom Thief is a more refined image than Cutpurse. And being able to take Combat Trick multiple times is handy.
Yeah, it can also take Skill Focus as a talent multiple times and a vigilante social talent. Though those can only be taken once each and you can't take Social Grace.
It's the archetype. A Phantom Thief can take Combat Trick, Minor Magic, and Major Magic multiple times. https://aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Rogue%20Phantom%20Thief
I picked out feats to level 9 for both of them. The Swash:
The Rogue: (I used Combat Trick for every talent.)
The Ring of Tactical Precision was planned to share Outflank and BWG. The basic plan was stealing and disarming while also getting AoOs. But since playing 2 characters in the same game isn't really something that's ever going to happen, I need to pare down the teamwork feats. Or have a way to share them that's not the ring.
I've got a pair of old characters (though they've never been played) that are twins. One is a Phantom Thief Unchained Rogue and the other is a Dashing Thief Swashbuckler. I'm looking at their builds now and realizing that they have a bit too many teamwork feats. I want to try to rebuild them so I can play them separately in normal games without crippling them. But also make it so they would boost each other if played together. They are both humans and I want to give them both Improved Steal, but obviously not focusing on that so much they can't do anything else. Anyone have any thoughts?
There's an alchemist archetype that focuses on firearms. It's called Gunchemist. It doesn't get Quick Clear so you'll still need to dip a level of Gunslinger or take the Amateur Gunslinger feat, but it otherwise gives you everything you need for a firearm build.
Yes, I took Fate's Favored. The other trait is Maestro of the Society. My spells are CLW, Grease, Tears to Wine, Vanish at level one. Level 2 is Cat's Grace, CMW, Invisibility, and Glitterdust.
Oh, those are definitely handy. The hard part will be getting them denied their dex for the first trip attempt though. I could probably retrain Tangled Limbs and Serpent Lash to get both. We don't run into too many things with 4 legs. What action is triple time? It doesn't say. Is it the same as a regular bardic performance?
I have no idea how they did it either. I suspect magic is involved but not what kind.
We're using the EITR optional ruleset so everyone gets Weapon Finesse anyway. If a class gives one of the feats that EITR gives out, then we can trade it for another feat instead. And I'm using Unchained Rogue so I got the dex to damage at level 3. Also Deft Maneuvers isn't about using dex for the trip attempt. It's a combination of multiple maneuver feats, including Improved Trip. As an aside, the Dimensional Dervish line might be handy. There's even a maneuver feat there. Too bad they're not combat feats so I could get them faster with fighter bonus feats. (On that note, WHY are they not combat feats?) Edit: I was just told of the Flickering Step feat. It's not a combat feat itself, but it turns Dimensional Agility and every feat that requires it into combat feat for the purpose of Fighter bonus feats. I take Flickering Step at level 9, Dimensional Agility at 10, Dimensional Assault at 11, Dimensional Dervish at 12, and Dimensional Maneuvers at 13.
I'm sorry, but I can't figure out where you're pulling "6 feats based on character level" from. Level one: Lingering Performance (base level feat), Deft Maneuvers (replacement for Rogue's Weapon Finesse), and Combat Reflexes (houserule bonus feat)
That's 9 feats and only because of the houserule bonus. So why are you saying I should have 10?
I haven't had any trouble with out-of-combat stuff, outside of plain old bad luck on rolls. I could lean more into buffing the party I do get access to Haste next level, so that helps some in getting around. Should I still take Greater Trip and have everything needed for tripping? Or take something else? I want to keep going with the bard levels, but I'm willing to do something other than Fighter if it's better.
Ok, you guys don't like the rogue levels. Understood. I still need to figure out what to do going forward.
I'm not going for a bow/shield/whip build. I have a bow as a backup weapon. I mentioned it as it's something I have, not something I'm going to always do. I also have a kunai for blunt damage. I always make sure I have backup weapons to avoid being completely unarmed. The shield is for AC. Why are you guys assuming I'm using it for damage? I said I was going to enhance it. Enhancing it gets me more AC. As for Lingering Performance, I'm pasting the exact wording from AoN:
In other words, Lingering Performance works on Archaeologist's Luck. And it's pretty needed since an Archaeologist doesn't get extra rounds from leveling up.
Shooting into melee without Precise Shot is a -4 penalty. It's why that feat is pretty much mandatory for any ranged attacking build. I went with Rogue to get dex to damage without having to use feats. I'm a gnome so dex is a lot easier than str. I went with the 4th level for Debilitating Injury and another talent. Then into Fighter. My stats are 11 Str, 18 Dex, 16 Con, 14 Int, 12 Wis, 18 Cha. My feats are Lingering Performance, Deft Maneuvers, Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus (Weapon Training Talent), Whip Mastery, Titan's Tangle (Combat Trick talent), Improved Whip Mastery, Serpent Lash, and Tangled Limbs. I mostly trip and then do an AoO when they stand back up. There's also a homebrew thing that basically works as a warpriest's Sacred Weapon so the whip is 1d8 instead of 1d2. I was planning on taking Greater Trip next level and then I'm pretty much done on tripping feats. With the gestalt and EITR, the build went a lot quicker. My AC seems around the same as the others. I'm currently saving up to enhance my shield to +2 at the moment. As for my party, it's a living world group so the members are different each session. I'm not sure what classes they were this time, but I have played a couple of sessions with these two before and they did the AoOs from across the room thing the last time too.
I have a level 6 Archaeologist Bard that's gestalted with 4 levels of Unchained Rogue and 2 levels of Fighter. ...and she's not keeping up.... Her damage output on a regular full attack is fine, but somehow my party members are doing AoOs from like 30 feet away if the enemy so much as BREATHES. By the time it's my turn, whoever I was headed over to fight is already dead. And all I can do is double move to try to get over to another guy or use my bow, usually with a -4 since I'm a melee character. What can I do to make my bard more able to keep up?
We've all heard about it or thought about it - the party of nothing but bards. But has anyone ever tried to make one? Would an all bard party actually be any good? If you wanted to play in an all bard party, what archetypes would you want there to be? Bard only, no skalds, no multiclassing. Let's go with a 5 person group.
Does Urban not work with unchained barbarian?
Oof, two casting classes with different casting stats? For flavor only? I've dipped out of casting a couple of times on different characters, even for flavor reasons, but I tried to keep to the same casting stats when I did. The only time I didn't was for my oracle. I dipped a single level of warpriest in order to get Weapon Focus and Divine Fighting Technique as bonuses.
Add two levels of alchemist to my character up above, removing two levels of barbarian. Nets me a tentacle attack without needing the Tentacle Cloak. It's better since the cloak gives reach and that would ruin pounce.
Let's see..... I have an Eldritch Scion Magus that dipped one level of Inspired Blade Swashbuckler and 2 levels of Oathbound Paladin. I also have a Gunchemist that took 3 levels of Trench Fighter, and 4 levels of Phantom Thief Unchained Rogue. Honestly the only character I have that has 4 classes is the character I'm never going to be allowed to play - 4 levels of Weretouched Shifter, 3 levels of White-Haired Witch, 5 levels of Wizard, and 8 levels of Unchained Barbarian. It's a natural attacking build that has EVERY different natural weapon.
I just bought a squishy d20. It's so squeezable. I'm hoping they put out a whole set. Can you imagine a d4 that isn't a caltrop?
Well, the pound of dice is still in the bag. The sets are mostly organized by color, though one set came with a mimic figure and is in a glass jar I need to replace.
Does a d100 count as a random single?
I just counted my sets of dice. I have 21 sets. Plus a one-pound bag, a tube, and a handful of random singles. Am I a dice goblin or can I be saved?
Well, if they didn't want us to put as many natural attacks are possible on a single character, they shouldn't have made that really the only viable way to use natural attacks. Sure, at low levels just having 2 claw attacks is great. But once you're at a level where you would get iterative attacks with a weapon, you're going to end up falling off with just claws. And a bit off topic but on topic at the same time, I actually did manage to get all the natural weapons onto a single character. It's an unholy multiclass of Weretouched Shifter, White-Haired Witch, Wizard, and Barbarian on a Kasatha. I doubt I'll ever be allowed to play it.
Well, Eidolons can get multiple tails anyway so that takes care of Slap/Sting.
If you can get more arms, then you can attack with those extra natural weapons. The hard part will be getting those extra arms with only having one level per class and playing in PFS.
No campaign as of yet. I like to pre-build characters and if I put them into a game, I can then adapt the build to any houserules. At the moment, I'm making a family of characters and building them as if they're all going to be played together. Changing over to Int would make skills and crafting a lot easier, but since both Sage and the Tattooed archetype changes the first power, it's not going to work out here sadly. Arcane itself isn't too bad. The 3rd level power would help with casting faster.
Once you run out of full bab classes to dip into your combat progressions stalls hard Fractional is your friend here. Two levels of a half BAB class would add up to a +1 increase. Same for your saves.
Oh right. I forgot that you can stack metamagic effects.
Someone suggested Tenebrous spell as a feat I could take. It looks pretty handy. It leads to the Shadow Grasp feat that would let me entangle people in a spell area but I'm not sure how I'd avoid getting my teammates caught up in it too.
Shadow Gambit sounds pretty useful. I'm a little confused on how that vestment thing works. It's written kinda weird. I spend a spell slot to use a scroll without needing UMD? But it needs to be a spell on my class list? Which would mean I don't need UMD anyway, right?
So there are still some attacking spells in the shadow subschool, and I'll probably take a few regular attacking spells as well just to cover my bases. So I'll probably still need to take Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot to help me not miss. As well as Spell Focus as mentioned. Inscribe Magical Tattoo can't be taken until level 5 and Improved Familiar at level 7. That's about half the build covered right there.
I actually don't need either the shaman or the sorcerer to take Craft Arms & Armor. Big brother Skald gets that one from his archetype. Forgot about that one for a bit. So with him, the shaman doing Craft Wondrous and Brew Potion, and the Sorcerer doing Magical Tattoo, I think the basic crafting is covered.
Crossblooded does stack with Tattooed and would let me get the shadow spells but impossible powers, but the reduced spells known and the will save penalty makes me nervous about it. Of course, I could always just slide Craft Wondrous Items onto the shaman. Since I took two feats out of the build I had originally planned for it, there's enough room to add one back in there.
Unfortunately the archetypes don't stack with each other. They both replace the first level power and 7th level feat.
Ok, so I think I'm pretty much done with the shaman and I know what I want to do with the rogue so I'm down to the last member of this family - the Fetchling Sorcerer. As I mentioned in the other post, I was originally going to have the shaman have Inscribe Magical Tattoo and a calligraphy wyrm familiar but then saw the Tattooed Sorcerer archetype. So I will be putting those onto this guy instead. Now sorcerers make great blasters but I already have one blaster in the family so I'm not sure if I need a second. I could probably go with a bloodline that gets some other creation feats and have this guy be the one that makes builds all the magic stuff for his family. Or just lean into blasting and take the Elemental Bloodline.
I think I'm going to grab a couple of metamagic feats. Extend is pretty good for a buffer, doubling the duration for only one level increase. Quicken might be better as a rod though, as that 4 level increase is harsh.
Can't use Split Hex. It requires witch levels.
Typo. I meant Spiritual Guardian. It's a feat. I probably can't take it since the archetype trades away spirit magic.
Ok, so the blood hexes are extremely situational to the point of basically being useless. And several other hex feats require being a changeling, being a witch, or having a patron. So it looks like I'm left with Amplified Hex, Accursed Hex, Spirit Talker, and Ritual Hex. And Extra Hex if allowed. Can I take Spirit Guardian as an Unsworn?
I think I'm going to ditch Inscribe Magical Tattoo and Improved Familiar. Someone in one of my groups on Discord was talking about the Tattooed Sorcerer and I looked it up since one of the siblings is a sorcerer. I liked it and want to use it for that sibling. But the group doesn't need 2 characters with the same creation feat. So I'm dropping it from the shaman. So that leaves just the first 2 feats.
Question. Are you using EITR? If yes, feats that apply to just one weapon will apply to the entire weapon group. That will affect your build a lot.
If you want to go with full rogue and not take any other classes, then you'll need to get some magic gear like the Helm of the Mammoth Lord. A natural attack build wants a lot of different natural weapons since they don't get iterative attacks.
Ok. So right now the plan seems to be Accursed Hex at one, Amplified Hex at 3, Inscribe Magical Tattoo at 5, and Improved Familiar at 7. I'd like to build it a little further and still need to pick traits.
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