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That would be useful. I want a wand of Gravity Bow since I'm not going with Spell Blending and having a higher bonus in UMD will be helpful. Ok, so I think that makes it Stabbing Spells and Clever Wordplay for my traits. I think that might be everything. I picked out feats, hexes, and arcana up to level 15. And now I have the traits. There's nothing else I have to choose except exact skill ranks and spells for the spellbooks. I'm pretty much done here.
Stabbing Spell could be handy if I don't go with Magical Lineage. I actually do have Perception as a class skill. The Eldritch Archer archetype switches out UMD for Perception as a class skill. You know something funny? There are two different versions of the Snowball spell. One is an evocation spell and the other is conjuration. They do the exact same damage, but the conjuration version can stagger and doesn't have spell resistance.
Ok. I think I'm going to go with Magical Lineage, but I need to decide what spell I'm going to use it on. There's the entire list of magus and witch to choose from, except the fire spells.
I think I'm going to go with Distant Spellstrike instead of Spell Blending. I can just buy a wand of Gravity Bow and put some ranks into UMD. So that leaves only traits. Magical Lineage lowers the metamagic level cost of a single spell. Limited but still useful. There's a regional trait that does the same thing but those are sadly application only in this group. There's always good ol' Reactionary, of course. Or one of the save boosting ones.
Oh, I should pick out the wizard spells I get from Spell Blending. Since I'm taking that arcana at level 12, I can either get a single 4th level spell or a pair of 1-3 level spells. I definitely want Gravity Bow for the extra damage. But I need a second spell. Or I could do the Distant Spellstrike arcana instead and increase the range of my spells to the range of my bow.
I meant Piercing Spell. I don't know why I put Penetrating Spell. My brain was probably mixing it up with the Spell Penetration feat. I don't want to change my race. But Arcane Armor Training is a pretty good idea. If I drop Extra Hex and Piercing Spell, I can put them both at 11. Then Greater Spell Focus and Greater Spell Penetration?
Those are some good choices. And I may want Penetrating Spell to help get past SR. So maybe Extra Hex and Penetrating Spell at 11, Improved Initiative at 13, and Accursed Hex at 15?
I want to pick out just a few more feats. Up to level 15. So I need 4 more since Magus gets a bonus at level 11. I don't think I need any other metamagic feats and don't want any creation feats. So that leaves a combat feat for the bonus. Not sure what else to use though.
GM says it's cool. Now the question is, is taking the -4 worth it? At low levels, probably not. At higher levels, maybe. I still need it for Manyshot anyway so it's still going in, but I could push it until later. Can't take Manyshot until level 9 so I can plop it in at level 7. Still can't take Weapon Focus until level 3 due to the BAB requirement. Guess I'll be putting Spell Focus at level one instead. So the feats will look like this: Precise Shot and Spell Focus at level one (EITR and a bonus feat from a houserule), Weapon Focus at level 3, Spell Penetration and Rime Spell at level 5 (Magus bonus), then Rapid Shot at 7, and Manyshot at 9.
I'll ask him.
Ok. So as an Eldritch Archer Magus, I get arcana every 3 levels. I was thinking Arcane Accuracy, Broad Study, Reach Spellstrike, Spell Blending, and Quickened Magic. I need Broad Study to use the witch spells with spellstrike and spell combat. And Reach Spellstrike is needed to use melee touch spells with ranged spellstrike and spell combat. I can't move either of those earlier due to level requirements. That takes care of the arcana up through level 15. The hexes were already picked out on the original build and won't be changing. Frozen Caress, Iceplant, Ice Tomb, Hoarfrost, and Numbing Chill. I lose several hexes to the archetypes I'm using so that's all I can use without taking the Extra Hex feat. Speaking of feats, in this group, EITR is in play plus they give everyone a free level one bonus feat. So I can put Precise Shot and Rapid Shot at level one and get that out of the way. Weapon Focus could help with accuracy at level 3. I get a bonus feat at level 5 that I can put a metamagic feat in. I think I'll put Rime Spell there. I don't really need any other metamagic feats. I plan to get a rod for Quicken Spell because +4 levels is way too high. (I realize they did it because it would be far too broken otherwise, but I'm still getting the rod.) I think I'll put Spell Penetration as the regular level 5 feat to help get past SR. I'm thinking Spell Focus for level 7 and then Manyshot at level 9. Not sure what to do next. I get another bonus feat at level 11.
Archetype of Magus. Basically you're trading melee spellstrike and spell combat for ranged.
Ok, I've changed my mind. I'm not going to go with kineticist. It's blasty enough on its own that it doesn't need any support from Witch. And Witch is what I'm trying to support in the first place. I think I'm going to go with Eldritch Archer after all. It's not a full BAB class, but the spellstrike and spell combat help with move economy and has a decent amount of attack spells. Plus I can enhance my bow which will help with accuracy.
If I was going to do an archer class, I would prefer Eldritch Archer Magus so I could shoot my spells with the weapon. Ranger doesn't really help with Witch very much since it's a Wis based class.
Ok. So Water is the primary element, of course. Then I guess air as the second element as level 7. I guess at 15, I'll expand water since none of the other elements fit the theme. So I get Basic Hydrokinesis and Cold Blast at level one. Then Shroud of Water at level two. Then at level 7, I'll have access to Air Blast, Basic Aerokinesis, and Blizzard Blast. Then Ice Blast at level 15. Do I get the other simple blast from water by expanding?
I think I want to try Kineticist. It's on theme with the elemental stuff and has a ranged touch attack that never runs out, which is handy when I have to save spells. Now the question is, what talents do I take? I'm going to go with water for the element since that's the one with the ice stuff. Maybe air for the second element at level 7.
Did you mean Inspired Blade Swashbuckler? I haven't readjusted the stats for the gestalt, but when I did the original sheet for her with just Witch, she got 10 Str, 17 Dex, 14 Con, 16 Int, 12 Wis, 9 Cha. I'm going Muse-Touched Aasimar so she has a racial boost to Dex and Cha, and I used a 20 point buy.
Ok. I think I've narrowed it down to either Wizard, Eldritch Archer Magus, or Kineticist. All 3 classes have good things going for them.
It's a living world group where everyone has multiple characters. The various GMs pick a level range for a session and people apply to play that session. So the party is constantly changing.
Magus could work well. Eldritch Archer, maybe? Spellstrike a nice safe distance away. Fighter would definitely help with the BAB, but after Precise Shot, there really aren't anymore combat feats I would need for blasting spells. Unless I load up on the defensive feats like Dodge and Great Fortitude. I'll think about Slayer. At least for a few levels, it could be handy.
I have a Witch that's an Invoker Winter Witch going into PrC Winter Witch. She uses ice spells to blast opponents and freeze them in place. I'm putting her into a gestalt game and I'm not sure what to gestalt her with. Yeah, there's wizard, but is that really the best choice? It does have great blasting spells, bonus metamagic feats, and is an Int caster. But it doesn't really do anything for saves or action economy. So what would be a better choice than wizard?
Bard. Get the buffs for everybody, good skills, can do the talking stuff, and can be decent at martial stuff with the right build. And has the cure spells on the list so doesn't need to UMD a wand for basic healing. That's not a huge deal since any divine caster can do the same, but it's still handy. A magus is great at both melee and magic, and decent at skills with a high Int. Spellstrike Shocking Grasp, anybody? Warpriests. Divine magic, can self-buff with swift actions, can heal with channel energy, and get plenty of bonus feats for martial stuff. Fighters do get more bonus feats, but it's always good to have some magic helping out. Finally either a druid, ranger, or hunter. Druids are a bit better for casting since they are full casters with the complete list of spells at their disposal. But all are decent martials with divine magic and a battle buddy pet.
I've also switched from Vanilla Fighter to Lore Warden Fighter. It fits her flavor better and I don't lose anything detrimental. And since Lore Warden gives Combat Expertise as a bonus feat at level 2 and we already get that with EITR, I was able to switch it out for another combat feat. So I went ahead and got Kobald Style here at level 7. I won't need to retrain Serpent Lash now for Kobald Groundling and take that at level 8.
I am coming back to necro my thread. I have gotten this gal up to level 7 (darn you full time job that prevents me from having time to play) and have decided what I want to do with her. I gave her Greater Trip at 7. At level 8, I'm going to go with Kobald Style and retrain Serpent Lash to Kobald Groundling. Then Flickering Step at 9 before going into the Dimensional line. And at level 15, I think I'm going to take the Druidic Decoder feat. This gal has almost ALL the basic languages and that feat will give her one that a rank in Linguistics can't give. I know by that time it won't matter that much, but her combat build will be done at that point and it's fun to think of her being able to speak every language in the game.
You can always take the Undersize Mount feat to ride something the same size as you. And then trade it away for another feat when it gets bigger. As a Hunter, you get Precise Shot at level 2 for free so you don't really need Point-Blank Shot. So you can take Undersized Mount at level one. My own Hunter rode a boar and she was a killing machine. She was a melee build and my boar rarely went down.
I've played bards that use a whip and a bow. Both of them can do really well if you have the right build. If you decide to go with the archer route, get a Tuned Bowstring. It's expensive, but it means you will never run out of Performance rounds. If you go with the whip, you will have to decide on whether you want to just trip or do damage. Both options will take quite a few feats.
Do you have anything left?
If there are a couple of total rookies, I agree with the suggestion to use the iconic NPCs for everybody. It'll make sure that everyone's build is on the same level while the rookies get used to the rules.
Well, as already mentioned, Monks and Brawlers have the best time of it without any gear at all. Shifters, Druids, and Barbarians (with certain rage powers) using natural weapons will also be pretty good. Paladins, Fighters, and other full BAB classes will be a little hampered without a way to do lethal damage (assuming of course that they aren't races without natural attacks) but won't be fully useless. As for casters, prepared casters that require spellbooks are kinda screwed. Once they use up any previously prepared spells, they won't be able to prepare more. Other casters will depend on their class features, such as a Witch's hexes.
I would like to also point out how helpful backup weapons are. Have a kunai and a dagger for melee, then a sling for ranged. Will you be a great martial combatant as full arcane caster? No. Will those weapons be handy when you're out of spells and the enemy has managed to get up to you? Yes.
I like the character customization from Pathfinder much better than 5e. I don't play Pathfinder 2e because I'm very busy and I don't want to spend time to learn an entire new system.
If you just want to use the shield for defense, pretty much any melee class will work. Fighter, Brawler, Skald, anything. If you want to shield bash, Ranger is a good choice. Like Stranger said, the combat style bonus feats let you ignore pre-reqs. So you can easily get Two-Weapon Fighting without having to go all in on Dex. The Skirmisher archetype trades out spells for more melee treats.
Ok, I think I'm gonna drop the disarming stuff. They don't need it. I'm going to lean into crit fishing with Tristan (he's the Swashbuckler) That'll be pretty easy with a scimitar and basically getting Improved Critical at level 5. I can delay the Cavalier level on him until I can get Outflank. I'm not sure if I should give Christie (the Rogue) the Cavalier level at one or wait until 5. I want to give her Pared Opportunists to share.
Yeah. That's why I want to rebuild them. I feel like I need to do so anyway even if I could play them together.
I think I'll go with Constable. Daring fits better thematically, but overlaps mechanically. And Improved Unarmed Strike is useful for a backup weapon.
Think I should dip Cavalier on these guys? So they can each share a teamwork feat? Are there any archetypes that trade away the mount but keep Tactician?
Yes. The characters are twin nobles whose family was murdered and their lands, titles, and fortunes were stolen from then when they were children. As adults, they plan to steal it all back. Phantom Thief is a more refined image than Cutpurse. And being able to take Combat Trick multiple times is handy.
Yeah, it can also take Skill Focus as a talent multiple times and a vigilante social talent. Though those can only be taken once each and you can't take Social Grace.
It's the archetype. A Phantom Thief can take Combat Trick, Minor Magic, and Major Magic multiple times. https://aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Rogue%20Phantom%20Thief
I picked out feats to level 9 for both of them. The Swash:
The Rogue: (I used Combat Trick for every talent.)
The Ring of Tactical Precision was planned to share Outflank and BWG. The basic plan was stealing and disarming while also getting AoOs. But since playing 2 characters in the same game isn't really something that's ever going to happen, I need to pare down the teamwork feats. Or have a way to share them that's not the ring.
I've got a pair of old characters (though they've never been played) that are twins. One is a Phantom Thief Unchained Rogue and the other is a Dashing Thief Swashbuckler. I'm looking at their builds now and realizing that they have a bit too many teamwork feats. I want to try to rebuild them so I can play them separately in normal games without crippling them. But also make it so they would boost each other if played together. They are both humans and I want to give them both Improved Steal, but obviously not focusing on that so much they can't do anything else. Anyone have any thoughts?
There's an alchemist archetype that focuses on firearms. It's called Gunchemist. It doesn't get Quick Clear so you'll still need to dip a level of Gunslinger or take the Amateur Gunslinger feat, but it otherwise gives you everything you need for a firearm build.
Yes, I took Fate's Favored. The other trait is Maestro of the Society. My spells are CLW, Grease, Tears to Wine, Vanish at level one. Level 2 is Cat's Grace, CMW, Invisibility, and Glitterdust.
Oh, those are definitely handy. The hard part will be getting them denied their dex for the first trip attempt though. I could probably retrain Tangled Limbs and Serpent Lash to get both. We don't run into too many things with 4 legs. What action is triple time? It doesn't say. Is it the same as a regular bardic performance?
I have no idea how they did it either. I suspect magic is involved but not what kind.
We're using the EITR optional ruleset so everyone gets Weapon Finesse anyway. If a class gives one of the feats that EITR gives out, then we can trade it for another feat instead. And I'm using Unchained Rogue so I got the dex to damage at level 3. Also Deft Maneuvers isn't about using dex for the trip attempt. It's a combination of multiple maneuver feats, including Improved Trip. As an aside, the Dimensional Dervish line might be handy. There's even a maneuver feat there. Too bad they're not combat feats so I could get them faster with fighter bonus feats. (On that note, WHY are they not combat feats?) Edit: I was just told of the Flickering Step feat. It's not a combat feat itself, but it turns Dimensional Agility and every feat that requires it into combat feat for the purpose of Fighter bonus feats. I take Flickering Step at level 9, Dimensional Agility at 10, Dimensional Assault at 11, Dimensional Dervish at 12, and Dimensional Maneuvers at 13.
I'm sorry, but I can't figure out where you're pulling "6 feats based on character level" from. Level one: Lingering Performance (base level feat), Deft Maneuvers (replacement for Rogue's Weapon Finesse), and Combat Reflexes (houserule bonus feat)
That's 9 feats and only because of the houserule bonus. So why are you saying I should have 10?
I haven't had any trouble with out-of-combat stuff, outside of plain old bad luck on rolls. I could lean more into buffing the party I do get access to Haste next level, so that helps some in getting around. Should I still take Greater Trip and have everything needed for tripping? Or take something else? I want to keep going with the bard levels, but I'm willing to do something other than Fighter if it's better.
Ok, you guys don't like the rogue levels. Understood. I still need to figure out what to do going forward.
I'm not going for a bow/shield/whip build. I have a bow as a backup weapon. I mentioned it as it's something I have, not something I'm going to always do. I also have a kunai for blunt damage. I always make sure I have backup weapons to avoid being completely unarmed. The shield is for AC. Why are you guys assuming I'm using it for damage? I said I was going to enhance it. Enhancing it gets me more AC. As for Lingering Performance, I'm pasting the exact wording from AoN:
In other words, Lingering Performance works on Archaeologist's Luck. And it's pretty needed since an Archaeologist doesn't get extra rounds from leveling up.
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