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As the previous threads on this topic seems to be six months to a year old, rather than pulling either back up, I'd like to start fresh in light of what we now know about the SoM and GG classes, as well as the new developments over in SF land.
I was somewhat inspired by the "Solarian" thread, in that I would like to see both that and about half a dozen other SF classes make something of a jump to Pathfinder. I would like to see the flavor updated to be more in line with the higher fantasy of Pathfinder, so maybe not a "Nanocyte" class, but instead a "Shadowcrafter" or "Mistweaver" taht covers similar mechanics with new fluff. .
An artificer/crafter class was a popular ask from the last threads, but now that we have something of that in the Inventor, I continue to want to see:
-Focus/Cantrip classes (possibly based on porting over SF classes in fact)
-Envoy/Marshall/Warleader class
-Something having to do with manipulating fortune effects
-Waterslethe's idea of "Dragon/Monster, the class" (a synthecist summoner/shifter may get us close to this)
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I want some form of the Spellthief back, but in a capacity where they can steal abilities instead of just spells and "mirror" their opponents and allies.
The Sandman Bard was the "spellthief" of PF1, but it wasn't exactly a 1 to 1, and I thought the whole concept of relegating the "theft" to just spells was a bit too narrow from a legit combat perspective.
It'd be especially cool if the ability thief or whatever in this case picked a particular kind of abilities they were better at stealing or more adept at using once stolen (so a Spellthief better at spells, but a Martial Mirror would be better at strictly melee strike thefts). Maybe locking out powers/abilities/spells they've stolen under certain circumstances (like critical successes).
Would be a super dynamic kind of Class and almost support-ish in nature if they could borrow ally powers as well as enemy powers.
I think if the abilities/spells/etc. stolen had to be from the "lower level" (say half level) but their specialist could be at a higher level, that might be a compelling way to build a class.
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I wouldn't mind the shifter being stripped of it's strict nature orientation and allowing for Abberant shifting. Maybe I just want to spout tentacles from my arm. Could also be used for weapon summoning and other kinda of self augmentation.
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I do really think making the Shifter a budget Druid was a mistake. So many polymorph-focused concepts that just weren't possible for the Polymorph Class to do with those restrictions.
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Shifter is definitely up there.
I'd like Solarian but really as a whole package with other Starfinder stuff.
A martial sorcerer-style lineage based class would also be high on my list. Bloodrager could be a version of it, and it might share ground with Shifter, but I want someone who takes on more of the physicality of their sorcerer bloodline, giving fewer spells and more supernatural abilities and a martial chassis to use them.
Kineticist is a must, I can't see them *not* being brought over at some point.
A "middle of the road" class could also be fun, might not be possible but you know how in JRPGs the main hero is usually kinda good at everything so you can focus up or not? How cool would it be to pick from a wide list of features at each level to build up an oddball class? You could wind up accidentally identical to another class, or too spread out, but your base class makes it easier to switch up or even leave the class behind
Considering they folded the hunter and the Spiritualist into the summoner, I wouldn't be surprised if they open up future concepts like that. Hell, you could argue that the witch now covers the shaman as well.
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I want some form of the Spellthief back, but in a capacity where they can steal abilities instead of just spells and "mirror" their opponents and allies.
So, a Blue Mage?
I'm interested. The free-wheeling nature of PF2 npcs could make it...interesting, but I think the madness can be contained if you have set abilities that the class unlocks, but you could also get a focus spell that borrowed enemy abilities, including spells, for a round or minute (as appropriate).
I think 30-40 bestiary abilities can easily be converted to Feat format as your default powers that you select. Though having typed that out, I just remembered I disliked the summoner playtest for doing that, so maybe not. It's a way to do it in any case.
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Some type of psyonic class with a cloistered/war cleric dichotomy and a kineticist for people who wanna be a pew pew blaster (like myself)
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In terms of a NEW Class I'm not really sure, I'd love to a kind of Final Fantasy style Dragoon that is a kind of paradox of Heavy Armor, raw speed/mobility, and the ability to make absurd leaping/charging attacks with polearms or other piercing Weapons.
In terms of Classes brought back from PF1... that's a short list for me being only the Shifter and Kineticist. Everything else can be accomplished via Archetypes of some kind, new "Class Paths," or simply by adding new Class Feats.
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I'm going to list some challenging prestige classes from 3.5 just because I want to see if anybody thinks they could be replicated in PF2e.
Acolyte of the Skin (Wears the skin of a demon or devil and gains fiendish boons like resistances and some SLAs. At higher levels the class can eventually summon a demon/devil for an hour each day with the capstone of becoming an outsider instead of a humanoid.)
The Alienist (Adds templates to their summoned creatures and their familiar in exchange for a more limited selection of summons. Gains extra durability over their levels at the cost of degraded skill checks when dealing with outsiders. Also eventually becomes an outsider. Retains full caster progression.)
Blood Magus (Takes damage when casting spells to enhance their damage. Can scribe their own skin as scrolls and store potions in their blood. As capstone features, they get a once-per-day SU ability to try to force all the blood out of a foe for massive damage (this ability's use is not lost upon failure) they also get the ability to, once-per-day, teleport from one living creature that has blood to another with an option to exit the other creature in rather destructive fashion.)
Master Transmogrofist (Can get the senses and extraordinary abilities of the creatures they transform into. As a capstone, they can add/substitute part of another form onto one they have as a favored form. This could be using the spell resistance, senses, or the movement modes of one form while keeping all the boons of the main form.)
Monsters as PCs (Yes, Savage Species was often an unbalanced mess but it was a FUN unbalanced mess.)
Templates for PCs(My table loved templated characters for non-cheesy purposes and I'd like to see it attempted in PF2e.)
I want the ability to make a complete corner-case weirdo character even if it isn't built to be completely optimal. 3.x & PF1e let you do that with ease as long as your table agreed to limit what they built in terms of raw power, I want to see if PF2e can manage the same.
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As few as new classes:
I'd like to see occultist come back in some fashion. Item focused mage was a pretty cool concept, though I feel like it would need a rename.
Kineticist would be neat, and with some stellar flavor could see a solarian type class as path option.
Shifter, but allow for all sorts of shifting and not just animals. As mentioned above, abberant shifters would be awesome as heck, and I could see space.for thinga like dragon shifters, etc for people who want to play a monster pc
As I mentioned during the magus playtest, I'd like to see magical duelists of all traditions, or at least for occult, but since that wasn't very popular, seeing a mesmerist class come back would be really cool.
For things I think would be better as archetypes, but still want:
A blood mage of some sort. Imo, I'd probably handle a class like this as a focus spell and metamagic focused class that lets you inflict conditions enfeebled, drained, or persistent bleed on yourself to augment your magic. While I thought the bloatmages from 1e were kinda neat, I hope this archetype won't be forced into that flavor.
It's all but confirmed, but synthesist
Master chymist and grenader as combat focused class archetypes for alchemist
Harrower, with optional harrow deck support
A tactician class with abilities like the old teamwork feats to give to your team
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I have a shrine to mark seifter I pray to daily for kineticist (and a voodoo doll as a backup just in case), but as far as brand new classes I don't have too many wants.
One thing I feel like would be cool, though I haven't had much traction with others, is a ki based, spirit type class. And yes, I know monk has some ki stuff, but I'm talking a class that is all about ki and spirit energy. Like it has a ki cantrip, can talk to/summon/become a spirit, the whole thing. Not a martial with a couple focus spells. I see it like - ki master is to monk what ranger is to druid.
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I'd like to see the Playtest Medium come back, it was so much more interesting. If it was an Archetype instead of a class it could potentially even get more support than a normal class, maybe be the first "mainline" archetype that gets continual support to add more spirits and really play off the modular nature it had.
I hope Kineticist and Occultist come back, hopefully not too soon though - they were complicated classes and I want the designers to have a little more time with 2e before doing them, because the action system can replace a lot of the Kineticist stuff and without Resonance Occultist doesn't have an easy mechanic to play off of natively with the system other than Focus am2d that's hardly novel anymore.
Some Archetypes that would be nice to see would be Bloatmages, they were gross and cool.
For something new, I think there's design space for a class that has Movement as a focus - going from Monk type shenanigans and Cloud Leap to short range Teleports and wall/ceiling running/standing. Toss in options for the same kind of free movement in water, air, and earth and we could do an Elemental Planes AP without a lot of pain. Combining actions with movement or benefiting from movement - Maybe something like a Charging bonus to either attack or damage (maybe even Sneak Attack levels of buff).
For another new thing, be it class or archetype, I'm going to call it an Awakener here, though it came up when discussing Black Blades - I'd love to see a class/archetype that makes their weapon sentient/possessed/etc, and spends Focus Points to make it more powerful, "awakening" it, that's progressive through 3 stages because we can have 3 focus points.
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I have a shrine to mark seifter I pray to daily for kineticist (and a voodoo doll as a backup just in case), but as far as brand new classes I don't have too many wants.
One thing I feel like would be cool, though I haven't had much traction with others, is a ki based, spirit type class. And yes, I know monk has some ki stuff, but I'm talking a class that is all about ki and spirit energy. Like it has a ki cantrip, can talk to/summon/become a spirit, the whole thing. Not a martial with a couple focus spells. I see it like - ki master is to monk what ranger is to druid.
Yeah this could be cool, though I guess it sort of makes a new magic tradition depending on how you interpret their abilities. I'm imagining a Ritualist from Guild Wars a little bit (that and Dervish were my favorites). Summoning spirits to buff the party or act as spirit turrets, just generally having esoteric abilities that pulled from magic that wasn't evil or good or elemental. Could be a pathway to include Shaman without being a budget Druid or nature/occult Witch. I think you could have fun with that, and could differentiate it from a Summoner or whatever.
A lot of things can be archetypes too, which makes it kind of hard to think of new classes beyond what you could pull from 1e (Occultist, Kineticist, Bloodrager, maybe a more broadly-interpreted Shifter, etc.). Maybe, depending on how Magus turns out, a way to get a holy berserker Zealot type class could be cool. I had homebrewed something of that sort for 1e that was kind of a mix of Oracle/Barbarian.
One class concept I haven't really seen mentioned is that of a spooky martial. I think 2e has done a remarkable job of diversifying the martials up so as to have made a bunch of unique ones like Charismatic martial (swashbuckler) and Smart guy/Engineer martial (Investigator and Inventor) while still having interesting takes on the iconic classes. With that being said I think we are sorely missing a spooky flavored martial and something like a dark hunter, cursed warrior, slayer, or martial psionic would fill a gap I think we currently have. Even the shifter class could be tweaked to be more occult then primal and I think that would be a really interesting take on the martial chassis.
Personally, and I don't know how popular it would be, but I would like to throw my hat in the ring of a Vampire full Martial that makes ample use of the focus pool system. The vampire class is the only thing that's ever made me want to try 4e and would love to see Paizo's take on it.
With the right class feats (and opening up to allow for all traditions), magus actually serves as a good start point for this. Occult spell access allows for the spooky spells. If we see a return of pool strike, I don't see why "get temp hp equal to damage dealt" couldn't be on the table as a modification for it either.
I actually really hope the magus keeps its 4 slots per day, but fills out their combat magic with focus spells, because honestly, I really liked the customization of pool strike, and just the idea in general on a conceptual level, but it waa so underpowered in 1e. With the focus system it's possible to make pool strike return, along with customization options to achieve all sorts of flavor options
With that being said I think we are sorely missing a spooky flavored martial and something like a dark hunter, cursed warrior, slayer, or martial psionic would fill a gap I think we currently have. Even the shifter class could be tweaked to be more occult then primal and I think that would be a really interesting take on the martial chassis.
In theory, I think the Kineticist or Medium was supposed to fill this slot in PF1. The Medium did a fair job in my opinion, but the Kineticist's Scanners/Carrie/The Bone Clocks flavor (as introduced with the Burn mechanic) was overtaken by associations with AtLA and Captain Planet.
But yes, a horror themed martial would be great. There's lots of possible ways to go; perhaps the 5e Blood Hunter might be an interesting start point, and able to cover some of the vampire flavor you'd find interesting?
I've got my fingers crossed for Skald or Bloodrager making a return. so much fun flavor, so much dumb stuff you could do. Really though, the best-case scenario is we get a barbarian instinct/feat chain that lets them cast spells while raging so you could take a spellcasting archetype. Although both warrior bard works for skald and magus probably works for bloodrager, at least conceptually, I'd love to have a good mechanical representation.
I've got my fingers crossed for Skald or Bloodrager making a return. so much fun flavor, so much dumb stuff you could do. Really though, the best-case scenario is we get a barbarian instinct/feat chain that lets them cast spells while raging so you could take a spellcasting archetype. Although both warrior bard works for skald and magus probably works for bloodrager, at least conceptually, I'd love to have a good mechanical representation.
My party is also missing the rage prophet, though battle mystery does get closeish
Oh, I forgot to mention my idea for a Drifter class that I floated a while back. The class would be centered around high risk abilities. Abilities that affect crits or have a downside when using. I feel like this would cover both the Samurai and Western archetypes that it draws from.
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I want some form of the Spellthief back, but in a capacity where they can steal abilities instead of just spells and "mirror" their opponents and allies.So, a Blue Mage?
I'm interested. The free-wheeling nature of PF2 npcs could make it...interesting, but I think the madness can be contained if you have set abilities that the class unlocks, but you could also get a focus spell that borrowed enemy abilities, including spells, for a round or minute (as appropriate).
I think 30-40 bestiary abilities can easily be converted to Feat format as your default powers that you select. Though having typed that out, I just remembered I disliked the summoner playtest for doing that, so maybe not. It's a way to do it in any case.
Yeah in essence that'd be the idea, potentially with some kind of base abilities to the Class that revolve around the same theme.
Honestly, not too dissimilar from Rogue and Gambit from X-men, where you can "give" and "take" powers from both enemies and your allies.
The best way to do it might be as you say, structure it similar to the Eidolon where stealing something from specific creature nets a specific result (aka higher level, touching a dragon gives you a breath weapon of the same damage type but already preprogrammed to do Xd6 every 4 rounds).
We were speaking truly *new* Classes and its one of the few things I've not seen a game try, and if we're being honest PF2 has so many cool powers, feats, and ability based actions that are so unique and cool, it would make for a very interesting Class.
Depending on the length of the steal, the potency of it, and limiting thefts of abilities based on level (maybe it has the Incapacitation trait for instance).
It at least seems like it could be an entire Class with specific Class paths for the types of thefts in question.
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I see a lot of people wanting spooky/ghosty/occult stuff, and I agree. I feel like occult stuff in general, between being its own tradition and all the cool classes based around it (especially in 1e) is something that helps set Pathfinder apart from dnd.
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I want something in the design space of the 1E occultist (martial who prepares special items which change around their playstyle). I'm not at all married to many or any of the specific mechanics of 1E occultist though (and Antiquarian is a really good name). So that's probably the new class I'd like to see.
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Might be the only one masochistic enough to want this but I'd love to see the Ancestors Oracle concept of being randomly overtuned in a different way every round expanded into its own class. I think this would be a good route to take for the Harrower class.
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Might be the only one masochistic enough to want this but I'd love to see the Ancestors Oracle concept of being randomly overtuned in a different way every round expanded into its own class. I think this would be a good route to take for the Harrower class.
I keep imagining this as "the Ancestor shrine scene in Mulan" - the class.
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I'd really like to see something akin to my favorite class of 3.5, the Binder. The Medium fell far short in the flavor dept. It would be cool to have Golarion type vestiges(or spirits, or soul shards...whatever you want to call them), each with a unique suite of abilities, including skills, skill feats, knowledges, focus spells, and reactions. I can't imagine it would be too difficult to keep them balanced. They are so much fun to play!!
The Medium was a victim of ambition - the original concept was for there to be a spirit for every Harrow card, which was extremely cool and opened up a lot of interesting ideas but was ultimately impossible to fit in a book that was meant to have other things in it so it had to be watered down into what we got. I'm sure if Mark got another proper crack at it it'd turn out a lot better this time.
The Medium was a victim of ambition - the original concept was for there to be a spirit for every Harrow card, which was extremely cool and opened up a lot of interesting ideas but was ultimately impossible to fit in a book that was meant to have other things in it so it had to be watered down into what we got. I'm sure if Mark got another proper crack at it it'd turn out a lot better this time.
Might be better as a set of archetypes. Like every Harrow spirit gets its dedication and 2-3 feats. Then they all get access to two pools of other feats as appropriate to their alignment and suit (each alignment and suit also getting 2-3 feats). Perhaps half of all of these scale based on the number of total harrow feats, and maybe mess with the "You cannot choose another dedication feat until..." for these dedications specifically.
That's about 200 feats though, so I'm guessing it would be a specific book for just these.
Yeah, but even if you ignore the harrow medium it had some problems delivering on its core fantasy. A lot of the spirits felt a little awkward to use all day long and it had difficult being as flexible as it pretended to be... the result was from my experience nearly every medium I saw was essentially just a special kind of fighter who could flex a bit into something else if there was a day with no combat.
One thing I'd really like to see in PF2 is a magical class that's not a spellcaster per se. I love that kind of design space.
In PF1 that was mostly the kineticist, but to some extent the Monk as well. In PF2 some martials have access to focus spells, but focus spells are too limited in use to ever feel like they can be a core part of your character's identity.
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Well the Inventor in Guns and Gears is basically supposed to fulfill the same fantasy as the Artificer. Even has an option for a robot companion.
And several of the class feats are about buffing allies. We are supposedly also getting temporary items in the form of "gadgets".
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Between alchemist, gunslinger, inventor, and all the items to be introduced in guns and gears and the grand bazaar, I think most fantasy technology stuff is covered. Until we get to aliens crashlanding and pulling out laser guns, I suppose.
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I want a "joker" style class where you control phenomenal power but you pay for it by barely being able to control it. Something like the 13th Age "Chaos Mage" where you roll on tables to see what your magic does.
I also want a "Pain-for-Power" class that's a martial and not a spellcaster.
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For non-3.x/PF1 stuff I have this idea for a support class-based around teleportation and reality-bending.
For the teleport, I'm thinking that they could use a Swashbuckler panache style recharge for a 30-foot teleport effect that takes an Arcana or Occultism check to recharge. The reality-bending comes from doing things like bending space and time to increase or decrease a creature's reach or spending an action to move a creature 0/5/10/15 ft depending on the level of success. Maybe they could even use an action to bend an ability so that an ally within line of sight of them can use their line of sight to cast a spell or make an attack and at later levels, they can even extend the range of said spell or attack by treating themselves as the casting origin. At higher levels, they could even make checks to warp enemy attacks off-target providing a bonus on saves on failure, a larger bonus on success, and fully negating the attack on a critical success.
I'm sure we could think of more suitable ideas if people like the concept.
That sounds pretty interesting, and I think it could be made to work.
Not sure about it being a support class though; it might be better as a martial. Maybe even the occult martial people have mentioned. Scratch that, make this the Arcane martial. They have these abilities because they put in the time and effort to learn them.
For flavor, an idea I've often kicked around is a class tied to the transitive planes and dimensions, like the Astral Plane, Etheral Plane, and Dimensions of Dream and Time. Those abilities sound like they'd be in that wheelhouse.
Semi-related, but I'm picturing the scene in the Witcher when Fringila created a portal for a troop of soldiers to shoot arrows through to the fort. That also sounds like something that class can do. Or, really, any caster, but definitely that class.
I'm also hoping for a cantrip with the Teleport trait in Secrets of Magic, and that would also fit with what you're talking about.
I could see it being a Martial as well, with a start of combat round being something like:
Teleport to near enemy -> Extend weapon reach -> Attack
With the following rounds being:
Attack or Extend weapon reach -> Move or Reposition an ally -> Use a support action to help a ranged ally do something
I bet they'd pair really well with an Eldritch Archer or a Sniper Gunslinger getting them shots around or through cover and making it impossible for enemies to avoid being targeted anywhere on the battlefield.
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More teleportation the better IMO. One of my few gripes with the system is that teleportation is so scarce. Playing a character all about opening portals and such sounds super fun.
Well the Inventor in Guns and Gears is basically supposed to fulfill the same fantasy as the Artificer. Even has an option for a robot companion.
I liked the inventor but it is really different from the artificer. The artificer was always a partial caster that used magic to infuse gear with cool stuff. I got more clockwork non-magic vibes from the inventor whereas the artificer is all about using magic in a scientific. way.
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Space type magic in general should be more common in pathfinder I think. It could be a pretty big category of magic, like elemental or shadow. We have cosmos oracle and a few spacey domains, but few cool class options aside from those.
If you wanted to do rifts or portals then maybe the Void Whisper (possible class name?) could leave a rift at their starting and ending location when they teleport.
The portal lasts until the start of their next turn and creatures can spend 5 feet of movement to enter the portal and 5 feet of movement to exit anywhere adjacent to the portal. A creature without enough movement to enter and exit the portal may not enter the portal. Hostile creatures using the portal must make a fortitude save or suffer one of the following effects:
Critical Failure: Sickened 2 and they may not move after exiting the portal.
Failure: Sickened 1 and movement is reduced by 10 ft., if the creature has no remaining movement due to this reduction they may not move after exiting the portal.
Success: Movement after exiting the portal is reduced by 10 ft., if the creature has no remaining movement due to this reduction they may not move after exiting the portal.
Critical Success: The creature may use the portal as normal.
At higher levels, you could get an ability that lets you or an ally shove enemies through portals forcing these effects on them.
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For non-3.x/PF1 stuff I have this idea for a support class-based around teleportation and reality-bending.
For the teleport, I'm thinking that they could use a Swashbuckler panache style recharge for a 30-foot teleport effect that takes an Arcana or Occultism check to recharge. The reality-bending comes from doing things like bending space and time to increase or decrease a creature's reach or spending an action to move a creature 0/5/10/15 ft depending on the level of success. Maybe they could even use an action to bend an ability so that an ally within line of sight of them can use their line of sight to cast a spell or make an attack and at later levels, they can even extend the range of said spell or attack by treating themselves as the casting origin. At higher levels, they could even make checks to warp enemy attacks off-target providing a bonus on saves on failure, a larger bonus on success, and fully negating the attack on a critical success.
I'm sure we could think of more suitable ideas if people like the concept.
This was one of the main playstyles for a Swordmage in 4e, and it ruled.
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This was one of the main playstyles for a Swordmage in 4e, and it ruled.For non-3.x/PF1 stuff I have this idea for a support class-based around teleportation and reality-bending.
For the teleport, I'm thinking that they could use a Swashbuckler panache style recharge for a 30-foot teleport effect that takes an Arcana or Occultism check to recharge. The reality-bending comes from doing things like bending space and time to increase or decrease a creature's reach or spending an action to move a creature 0/5/10/15 ft depending on the level of success. Maybe they could even use an action to bend an ability so that an ally within line of sight of them can use their line of sight to cast a spell or make an attack and at later levels, they can even extend the range of said spell or attack by treating themselves as the casting origin. At higher levels, they could even make checks to warp enemy attacks off-target providing a bonus on saves on failure, a larger bonus on success, and fully negating the attack on a critical success.
I'm sure we could think of more suitable ideas if people like the concept.
I adore the 4E Swordmage and kind of wish the Magus was more like it. It’s why my current Magus (using playtest rules) is using slide synthesis so I can eventually teleport with striking spell at 10th level. I wish there were more teleporting features and spells though
Not to derail the thread, but animatedpaper, you have a great track record for guessing what's coming out next from paizo. What do you think the next book containing classes will be? I really feel like magus and gunslinger were far and away the most wanted classes, but now that they're coming I'm not sure which of the remaining 17 are the most wanted. Might be time for another poll?