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If nothing else the phylactery could be embedded in the middle of the construct, requiring it to be cut/broken apart to get to it.
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I made a really fun Android Lich using Crossblooded Sorcerer... Impossible and Nanite Bloodlines... gestalt with Constructed Pugilist-Living Weapon Brawler...
Completely legit robot Lich. The capstone to the Impossible Bloodline is becoming a clockwork mystery machine... I use him an a Lich God that stores other Liches' phylacteries inside himself like an unliving vault.
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One of the Pathfinder Adventure Paths has the House you are adventuring in as the actual phylactery.
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You could probably use Poppet Familiar... it's a tiny or small construct that you can give climb/fly/swim speeds, and it gets a cute little breath weapon.
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There is at least one Paizo adventure that has a phylactery as a (part of a) construct. Not only does it power the guardian construct, the lich cunningly put it there because most people wouldn’t think to look for a phylactery somewhere they encountered before the lich.
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For a high level villain, I had a lich's phylactery be an adamantine golem with the addition of a weaker lich's phylactery (who'd been a fakeout villain for this guy to come in and beat) wired into it so that he had access to their divine spellcasting (though the golem couldn't spellcast).
My rule for him was that every hour he spent active as a golem added a full day to his regeneration time because of the strain it put on him. I had the soul-containing bits of the phylactery be points of relative weakness that could be attacked with called shots to bypass half its DR.
I mostly did it to give him one last little gotcha at the players before he'd escape and show up in a later campaign, but they managed to run him down and destroy it.
A house or dungeon as a phylactery sounds like a great idea. It'd be like the derelict Reaper from Mass Effect 2 that made people go crazy with its architecture.
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That sounds sort of like the ioun wyrd, a craftable construct with a wonderous item core. If nothing else, we know it can be done.
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I have a vague memory of someone doing this with a shield golem. Seems legit to me.
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Unreasonable? I don't think so. Impractical? Yes.
In one long-ago campaign that fizzled and died there is still an undefeated lich wandering around whose phylactery is at the bottom of the world's deepest ocean. There was a whole story arc about the lich and the players always just assumed the phylactery was some mundane-looking item and the lich would always have it somewhere in plain sight.
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As far as I'm aware, I don't think there are any limitations on "what" can serve as a Lich's phylactery, but common sense would tell me that air molecules, dirt, and viruses would be inappropriate. So, as long as the phylactery is both "findable" and "destroyable", I'd say just about anything goes.
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If I was a lich (of sufficient level) I'd absolutely have my phylactery in a private demiplane (those are exceptionally hard to get to based on the planar adventures handbook, based on what I recall it's basically impossible without wish or you'd already been there). And inside that demiplane I would have it be a lightless airless timeless negative energy aligned plane with a horde of undead to defend it. Putting the phylactery inside one of (or inside a construct) seems totally reasonable to me. Course I don't use a lich lightly in a campaign, they are supposed to be powerful enemies at the culmination of a campaign that avoid directly endangering themselves, instead using cautious subterfuge to reach their end goals.
To me having a phylactery that's easy to find/destroy or a lich that's easy to defeat is a disservice to the idea of lichdom.
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What construct would be considered worthy to carry such a prized item?
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Adamantine Golem?
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a clone of a young child of course
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That sounds sort of like the ioun wyrd, a craftable construct with a wonderous item core. If nothing else, we know it can be done.You mean an Ioun Stone that just has to be present at creation and the monster uses one of its special abilities on after its creation? I had already looked at that and rejected it as an option because the phylactery isn't an ioun stone. Even a dull grey ioun stone is a magic item, unfortunately.
I just meant it as proof of concept that a wonderous item can be used as part of a golem without destroying the wonderous item. The ioun golem can have its stones stolen, so the wyrd is the better example, It shouldn't cost more than 40gp to integrate a cheap ioun stone into your phylactery.
A wyrwood also uses an ioun core, but since there's no rules regarding removing it, I don't know if the ioun stone is effectively destroyed or not.
If you can just make a construct also a phylactery, A tophet would be cool. Perfect for dropping into suns and volcanos. You could also throw your phylactery into an "abandoned armory", it's not as well defended as some options but it would be pretty cool thematically.
I could maybe see a Fiend-Infused Adamantine Golem maybe holding my phylactery... but enslaving an Outsider just to power a golem just to carry my phylactery... seems lame.
The demon or devil would probably be way better off running amuck, causing its own mayhem... not babysitting my BS.
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- Kill a Purple Worm or similar massive burrowing creature.
- Hollow out enough of it to hold your phylactery, your new body, and maybe a few other 'odds and ends'.
- Turn it into an undead creature of some sort,
- Magically buff it to prevent divinations and protect against possible lava encounters, and
- Order it to (until ordered otherwise by you) wander at random through the earth and avoid any danger or contact with humanoids.
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To me, one of the best covers for a phylactery is a powerful magic item like a ring that you've secretly rewarded to the PCs for when they unknowingly did a task for you or one of your minions. PCs never lose treasure. Even if they don't use it, it probably sits safely untouched in their own handy haversack forever. If they sell it, you can easily get it back from any merchant and make them find it as treasure later.
The closer you are to danger, the further you are from harm...
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As far as I'm aware, I don't think there are any limitations on "what" can serve as a Lich's phylactery, but common sense would tell me that air molecules, dirt, and viruses would be inappropriate. So, as long as the phylactery is both "findable" and "destroyable", I'd say just about anything goes.
Make the phylactery be something (or be hidden inside something(*)) that everybody can see, but nobody would dare to try to destroy, because if they do, they're hosed too.
(*)And if the latter, mislead everyone into thinking it's the former, and make it really hard to remove without ruining what it's hidden in.
A particularly nasty example (strangely not found in Archives of Nethys).
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Dragon #288 tag team terrors. Apparently he tricks the tarasque into triggering a "Trap the Soul" spell which doesn't allow a save or spell resistance, then just turns the trap into a phylactery somehow.
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As far as I'm aware, I don't think there are any limitations on "what" can serve as a Lich's phylactery, but common sense would tell me that air molecules, dirt, and viruses would be inappropriate. So, as long as the phylactery is both "findable" and "destroyable", I'd say just about anything goes.Make the phylactery be something (or be hidden inside something(*)) that everybody can see, but nobody would dare to try to destroy, because if they do, they're hosed too.
(*)And if the latter, mislead everyone into thinking it's the former, and make it really hard to remove without ruining what it's hidden in.
A particularly nasty example (strangely not found in Archives of Nethys).
Welp, thank you on helping me find my next BBEG lol. That sounds terrifying :D
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The whole concept sounds pretty awesome to me.
I find the "what's the safest place for a phylactery" conversations to be less helpful. I mean, there's always some angle or method that can get around X, Y or Z. And if you somehow get to the point where there really isn't a way to get at it and it is well and truly untouchable...that's not a very compelling narrative.
I could see a lich putting is phylactery in an iron (maiden) golem, or maybe some kind of sentient graveyard. Maybe it spawns hordes of undead and throws tombstones at you, or maybe it's a mass grave animated as a single entity.
Maybe it's a magic-mirror-on-the-wall sort of thing, and the phylactery is/is hidden in a realm on the other side of the mirror.
Maybe it's a cairn mound that's really a gargantuan stone golem or enslaved earth elemental.
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The only real Lich I have run was
The AP had her ability to love ripped out of her by the gods, and that piece of her humanity was stored in a sword... which became sentient. I figured that was close enough to sticking her soul in an object, and ran with it... applying thr template didn't actually help her last much longer, so it didn't change much.
When the party cut off her head (a second time)... she died with a sigh of relief. And the sword was no longer sentient... still Vorpal, just not awake.
Also in Kingmaker is a wonderful Lich, but they nerfed him bad.
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A particularly nasty example (strangely not found in Archives of Nethys).
This is on Nethys, halfway down the Lich template page.
I was reading this book series one time and it turned out the hero was actually the phylactery! Plot twist!
Right?! And he didn't even know!
I just thought about it, and the idea of building a construct around the phylactery, so that you essentially have to fight the phylactery itself to destroy it, seemed amusing, but I don't know how others would feel about this.
3.5 is not Pathfinder, but on the official WotC website back in the day they had a creature contest (basically a popularity contest for interesting NPCs) of officially designed critters and one of them was a drow lich who's phylactery was also her iron golem.
(I thiiiiiiiink she lost out to the stone giant paladin who wielded pieces of a collapsed church as the stones that the threw with his ability. Of course, everyone lost out to the succubus paladin, proving once again, Charisma matters. :wakka: )
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I was reading this book series one time and it turned out the hero was actually the phylactery! Plot twist!Right?! And he didn't even know!
** spoiler omitted **
I loved that book series. JRR Tolkien is such a great author, isn't he?
I loved that book series. JRR Tolkien is such a great author, isn't he?I was reading this book series one time and it turned out the hero was actually the phylactery! Plot twist!Right?! And he didn't even know!
** spoiler omitted **
XD
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Welp, thank you on helping me find my next BBEG lol. That sounds terrifying :D{. . .}
A particularly nasty example (strangely not found in Archives of Nethys).
The real thanks belongs here.
This is on Nethys, halfway down the Lich template page.A particularly nasty example (strangely not found in Archives of Nethys).
Weird -- the search engine gave me different Lich pages this time, and the one for the Lich template had it (although no immediately obvious way to point to that part as opposed to the top). Not the first time that the search engine didn't give me something I was searching for (I should have tried the classic search engine).
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I would require a feat, and also include the cost of making the construct as part of making the phylactery, unless it's an existing (already built) construct. I would still require the normal phylactery cost in order to modify the construct to be a phylactery.
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I would require a feat, and also include the cost of making the construct as part of making the phylactery, unless it's an existing (already built) construct. I would still require the normal phylactery cost in order to modify the construct to be a phylactery.
There are rules in place already for both creating a Lich's phylactery and Crafting Constructs, as well as junctioning two magical items to a single item. I would probably do something like this (phylactery cost + construct cost)*50% = Phylactery Golem. I think that's pretty fair, what do you think?
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I don't see why it would cost 50% more. You're not freeing up a slot or anything, and if you're using the construct to it's full potential, you're probably putting the phylactery in more danger than normal. And if you're keeping the construct extra-ultra-safe, you're spending a lot of cash on abilities that won't matter.
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Seems like a fair pricing structure.
I still think it makes your phylactery too much of a target. A very expensive target. Regardless of it now being harder to destroy, more people WANT to destroy it, more people will actually attempt to destroy it.
Maybe... I don't know... my phylactery could be a golem or a planet for all it would matter... nobody has found it, or even went looking for it... so it literally doesn't matter what your phylactery is, as long as it's hidden well enough.
Make it an adamantine construct phylactery, make it an orgami paper bird, make it a timeless red rose... it only gets destroyed if you are careless enough to allow it to be found.
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I don't see why it would cost 50% more. You're not freeing up a slot or anything, and if you're using the construct to it's full potential, you're probably putting the phylactery in more danger than normal. And if you're keeping the construct extra-ultra-safe, you're spending a lot of cash on abilities that won't matter.
Yeah, but you're making the phylactery not only able to defend itself (it's a CR19 encounter), but have the "intelligence" to carry out your orders and run when threatened. Golems have - for Int, but they still obey your commands; and you *could* even teach it emergency protocols when threatened.
I dunno, I can think of 1,000 things I could do with a mobile tough-to-kill phylactery that can defend itself (and self heal). I think the +50% cost is warranted.
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a phylactery already has an ability that makes it usable beyond all normal considerations for items. Combining an item that can already be used regardless of distance and plane to the owner, with another item that operates independently, shouldn't be too much of a price bump.
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a phylactery already has an ability that makes it usable beyond all normal considerations for items. Combining an item that can already be used regardless of distance and plane to the owner, with another item that operates independently, shouldn't be too much of a price bump.
The difference between having an Adamantine Golem as the Phylactery vs. having an Adamantine Golem guarding the Phylactery is massive. Because you can go around a Golem to get the phylactery and don't even have to fight the Golem. When the Phylactery becomes the Golem, that's a pretty big deal.
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And there is a hollow spot inside the golem for the Lich to appear in, completely surrounded by adamantine walls... a scrying globe, and some levers... Lich in an adamantine mech suit...
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a phylactery already has an ability that makes it usable beyond all normal considerations for items. Combining an item that can already be used regardless of distance and plane to the owner, with another item that operates independently, shouldn't be too much of a price bump.The difference between having an Adamantine Golem as the Phylactery vs. having an Adamantine Golem guarding the Phylactery is massive. Because you can go around a Golem to get the phylactery and don't even have to fight the Golem. When the Phylactery becomes the Golem, that's a pretty big deal.
So we should price it about the same as an inaccessible storage compartment within the golem? That seems fair.
I guess that would be something less than the 11k construct storage ability since that's like a bag of holding and we just need a hole about the size of a fist deep in the things chest. Though maybe it would need to be the full 11k since the clockwork hound requires secret chest for its creation despite the chest cavity being mundane storage.
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Honestly, if you are preparing to craft a phylactery, you should first pray to the eternal Android Lich God, and set up an appointment to deposit your phylactery in the Vault of Infinite Impossibilities...
Problem solved, problem stays solved.
You are wasting your time and money trying to create a golemlactery... no mind, but your soul... and a whole lot of trouble.
Become one with the supreme consciousness of the eternal Android Lich God... resistance is futile... aren't we all just part of God's debris?
The more phylacteries stored within the eternal Android Lich God, the more powerful it becomes (mythic levels). You can be part of something greater than yourself...
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Did I ever post HAL 9000? The eternal Android Lich God?
25pt buy:
14,12,8,12,14,17
Android:
+2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Cha
Alert, Emotionless, Exceptional Senses, Constructed, Nanite Surge
Constructed Pugilist-Living Weapon Brawler/
Crossblooded Sorcerer (Impossible & Nanite)
Skills 4+Int:
Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Fly (Dex), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Craft Weapons (Int), Knowledge (engineering)
Androids gain a +2 racial bonus on Perception checks, and take a –4 penalty on Sense Motive checks.
Liches have a +8 racial bonus on Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth checks. A lich always treats Climb, Disguise, Fly, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and Stealth as class skills.
*Craft (sculptures) 3+20+6=19
Craft (weapons) 3+20+6=29
Disguise 3+10+9=22
Knowledge (arcana) 3+10+6=19
Knowledge (dungeoneering) 3+10+6=19
*Knowledge (engineering) 3+20+6=29
Knowledge (local) 3+10+6=19
Knowledge (religion) 3+10+6=19
Perception 3+20+6+8=37
*Perform (strings) 20+9+2=31
Sense Motive 3+10+6+8-4=23
Spellcraft 3+20+6=29
Stealth 3+10+5+8=26
UMD 3+10+9=22
1. Brawler's Cunning
1. Martial Training
1. Constructed Limb
1. Limb Modifications
...
1. Create Energy Weapon (move action)
1. Cantrips
1. Spells
1. Bloodline
... Impossible
... Nanite
1. Bloodline Power
... Nanite Strike
1(class): Eschew Materials
1(level): Scion of War
2. Brawler's Flurry (TWF)
2(class): Craft Magic Arms & Armor
3. Improved Energy Weapons +1
3. Bloodline Power
... Spontaneous Generation
3. Bloodline Spell
... Disguise Self
3(class): Craft Wondrous Item
3(level): Toughness
4. Stat Bump: Cha +1
4. AC Bonus +1
4. Malleable Weapons (swift action)
5. Augmented Energy Weapons
... Shocking
5. Bloodline Spell
... Make Whole
5(class):
5(level): Craft Construct
6. Limb Modifications
...
7. Improved Energy Weapons +2
7. Bloodline Spell
... Shrink Item
7(bloodline): Iron Will
7(level): Improved Iron Will
8. Stat Bump: Cha +1
8. Brawler's Flurry (Imp. TWF)
8(class):
9. AC Bonus +2
9. Augmented Energy Weapons
... Shocking & Ghost Touch
9. Bloodline Power
... Nanite Surge
9. Bloodline Spell
... Miasmatic Form
9(level):
10. Limb Modifications
...
10. Malleable Weapons (swift change)
11. Improved Energy Weapons +3
11. Bloodline Spell
... Echolocation
11(level):
12. Stat Bump: Cha +1
12. Limb Modifications
...
13. AC Bonus +3
13. Augmented Energy Weapons
... Shocking, Ghost Touch, & Shocking Burst
13. Bloodline Spell
... Animate Objects
13(bloodline): Blind Fight
13(level):
14(class):
15. Brawler's Flurry (Greater TWF)
15. Improved Energy Weapons +4
15. Bloodline Power
... Nanite Resurgence
15. Bloodline Spell
... Insanity
15(level): Sacred Geometry
16. Stat Bump: Cha +1
16. Malleable Weapons (free action, free change)
16. Finishing Strike 1/day
17. Augmented Energy Weapons
... Shocking, Ghost Touch, Shocking Burst, & Keen
17. Bloodline Spell
... Polymorph Any Object
17(class):
17(level): Sacred Geometry
18. AC Bonus +4
19. Improved Energy Weapons +5
19. Bloodline Spell
... Wish
19(bloodline): Expanded Acana
19(level): Expanded Arcana
20. Stat Bump: Cha +1
20. Limb Modifications
...
20. Finishing Strike 2/day
20. Bloodline Power
... Living Paradox
20(class):
Lich:
+2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha
Natural Armor, Channel Resistance, DR, Immunity, Undead traits, Rejuvenation, Fear Aura, Paralyzing Touch
20th level Lich Base Stats:
14,14,--,16,16,22
Stats with +6 belt and +6 headband:
20,20,--,22,22,28
Saves w/belt & headband:
+21, +17, +18 (+22 vs Channel)
HP: 310 (20D10+180+20)
Immunities:
morale bonuses, fear effects and all emotion-based effects, cold, electricity, mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms), bleed, death effects, disease, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, stunning, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain, damage to its physical ability scores (Constitution, Dexterity, and Strength), exhaustion and fatigue effects, any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless), death from massive damage, and take no additional damage from bleed effects, critical hits, and sneak attacks.
And there is a hollow spot inside the golem for the Lich to appear in, completely surrounded by adamantine walls... a scrying globe, and some levers... Lich in an adamantine mech suit...
Heh. And there are rules for exactly this.