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Mysterious Stranger wrote:
TxSam88 wrote:

"Unless otherwise noted, activating a magic item is a standard action."

It could be argued that Smoked Goggles need to be activated - since it makes no mention of always being on.

Smoked Googles are not magic items, they are mundane equipment.

my bad, I saw that they protected from a gaze attack and assumed the must of been a magic item.


"Unless otherwise noted, activating a magic item is a standard action."

It could be argued that Smoked Goggles need to be activated - since it makes no mention of always being on.


Just play a straight Eldritch archer, and perhaps go for the musket instead of a pistol. Mage Bullets would be almost worthless for this build as you already are targeting touch AC most of the time and cast boost your attack via arcana or arcane strike. As soon as you can put Distance on your musket (80' range for touch AC), and use your Magus Arcana for whatever boosts you need (flaming, etc). Buy some deliquescent Gloves and all your attacks already have Acid. Pick up Ranged Spell combat and Reach Spellstrike. use your spells mostly for things like dimension door, phase step, haste, or shield. but have a few shocking grasps, lightning bolts, umbral strike, and cosmic ray type spells.

Be sure you have Rapid Reload and Alchemical cartridges (Paper).


TheFoxGod wrote:
TxSam88 wrote:
Halfway through book 1 and only at level 2 seems a little low. be sure to check the passage at the front of the book that tells you when the party should be levelling.

They ignored every roadblock in their way while simultaneous nailing every required disable device and/or strength check, thus allowing them to skip all of the C sections of the book. There's an NPC coming up that I can use to encourage them to turn back, but they seem to get tunnel vision as a party. I'll do my best to dissuade them, but I want them to have agency, and I've let them know I won't fudge rolls and I won't stop a TPK if that's the way things go. So if they insist on plowing through, then that's where we'll end up, and I guess we'll find another AP.

If you are using actual XP, you should still be throwing enough random encounters so that they still level at the appropriate points in the book pr the listing in the front of the book. The other option is to use milestone leveling.

either way, the party still needs to stay on track level wise per the AP.


So APs are written for 4 20 point build non-optimized characters, with a non-optimized party, played by less experienced players. Anything outside of this would necessitate a bump in the CR of the encounters.

If your players are experienced, build optimized characters, or optimized parties, then you might need to up the CR to make things a bit of a challenge.

The original Summoner was overly powerful, the unchained one is more in line, but the summoner/eidolon still has a huge action economy benefit. We tend to think of the eidolon as adding a character to the party when calculating APL.

Halfway through book 1 and only at level 2 seems a little low. be sure to check the passage at the front of the book that tells you when the party should be levelling.


MR CRITICAL wrote:

does this gaze attack effect multiple creatures or just one ???

The euryale’s gaze attack has a range of 30 feet and turns the target to stone permanently (Fortitude DC 32 negates). The save DC is Constitution-based.

So during a typical round, as the characters are fighting, each character will need to make a save against the gaze. During the Euryale's turn it can also target an individual with it's gaze attack, forcing that one character to make an extra save against the gaze attack.


Merellin wrote:
TxSam88 wrote:
I quite often run dex based melee types with little or no armor. Once you get the dex high enough, you actually start not wanting the negatives associated with armor. Rogues, Magus, Ninja, etc.
I do wanna try a unchained rogue sometime... I just worry a lot about finding myself unable to get a flank and thus not doing anything in the combat due to lack of sneak attack... And I dont know if the two weapon fighting to Two Weapon Feint feat line will be good with their lower BAB....

there are lots of ways to get sneak without using flanking. You need to definitely try to get a way to use Greater invisibility. with that alone, you attack against flat footed, and get a +2, if you flank, its +4.

look at all of the rogue tricks. there's a couple that you just get sneak attack damage for a round. some that let you use a wall, or an enemy as a flanking partner, and be sure to look at the ninja tricks (invisible blade).


I quite often run dex based melee types with little or no armor. Once you get the dex high enough, you actually start not wanting the negatives associated with armor. Rogues, Magus, Ninja, etc.


Falling Rock wrote:


In contrast, my melee-monster PC went the Vital Strike route, and frequently one-shot enemies with his impact earthbreaker. But those other two easily had him beat on DPS for most of the campaign, simply from their greater number of attacks per round.

Archers benefit in 3 major areas when you consider DPS.

1. They normally get to go first dues to having a high Dex based Iniative
2. They get a lot of shots, Many shot, rapid shot and a haste item give them 3 extra shots above their level progression.
3. they usually don't have to move, meaning a composite bow arhcer can begin shooting at no penalty at 100'+, yet a melee has to move to get into melee.


Warped Savant wrote:
I'm with TxSam... Straight-up archer fighter is disgusting and the player that made the PC loved playing it.

yeah - so disgusting that we had to ban it in our games.


human fighter - no archetype - just get a Composite Bow and do a traditional archer build. Get a haste item and at 11th level you should be firing around 6 arrows per round dealing about 15-20 points each, on a non crit.


it's not a reality simulation, many things are that way due to game balance, and/or game simplicity


Shocking robe
Blazing robe
Varisian Tattoo

These are my favorite ways of boosting Caster level, combine one of the robes with the Admixture School, and pretty much ANY damaging spell gets the boost.


Melkiador wrote:
I haven't played that one before, but with a name like Carrion Crown, we expect a lot of undead stuff. Your necromancer may be meant to handle part of that, but I think you would still benefit from a positive energy channeler, and selective channel will be maybe more useful than usual.

it does have undead - but not as much as you would think. It actually covers a bunch of horror tropes. That's all I'm going to say on it, as you asked for no spoilers.


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I would personally add a dex based rogue type. maybe a Swashbuckler, or ninja. Your Archer Ranger is a good idea. Someone that's good at either being sneaky, or good at ranged combat.

It looks to me like you have someone who can heal, someone who can cast divine spells, someone who can cast arcane spell, someone who can be a frontline fighter, what's missing to me is the sneak/lockpick, and/or the ranged fighter.


we're about to finish up that AP, someone in the party needs to max out persuasion and diplomacy. Preferably someone with a high Charisma.

You'll want to invest in ways to do combat underwater, cloak of the manta works, there are a couple of feats that allow you to fight underwater, aquadynamic weapon enhancement, waterproof spell, etc. there are LOTS of underwater stuff.


Diego Rossi wrote:


Not being able to add some ability to the weapon by crafting is a limit, but a magus has a large pool of variable abilities if he is willing to spend a few arcana. What he lacks most are the fixed price abilities (several of them are nice for the cost).

this is where I think the Blackblade is superior to a regular magic weapon, it's literally a swiss army knife.

Need flaming, making it flaming, need ghost touch, make it ghost touch, need shock, make it shocking, etc.

the fact that once you have a few arcana chosen, you can build almost anything you need on the fly is extremely powerful.


Melkiador wrote:
TxSam88 wrote:
Melkiador wrote:
Still, don’t be shocked if you end up with a main weapon that outclasses your black blade at certain levels.
Since the Black blade is intelligent, a magus would typically not want to upset it by doing that, and unless the other weapon is of the same type, the feats used to get better with the Black Blade will still allow it to outclass the "other blade"
The personality of the Black Blade is up to the player and GM. While it could be jealous, it may just be happy that its guiding purpose is being accomplished at all. I could even imagine one who gets upset at being used for day to day activities, considering it's purpose to be the only completely correct time to use it, and begrudingly letting you use its power more regularly just to keep you alive.

Sure, that was a side point, the main point being that since you probably have Feats like Weapon focus etc with your black blade, unless the other weapon is of the same type, losing the bonus from those feats is usually not worth whatever cool thing the alternate weapon has.


So, if he was able to play a dwarf - Stone Lord Paladin is the way to go.


Melkiador wrote:
Still, don’t be shocked if you end up with a main weapon that outclasses your black blade at certain levels.

Since the Black blade is intelligent, a magus would typically not want to upset it by doing that, and unless the other weapon is of the same type, the feats used to get better with the Black Blade will still allow it to outclass the "other blade"


Wouldn't this be a case of specific rule overriding a general rule, So even though the FAQ says to increase the damage by two steps, the template would be a more specific rule, and it says to increase by one step.


Diego Rossi wrote:
TxSam88 wrote:
especially once a weapons magic bonus gets high enough to penetrate most DR's on it's own.

Regardless of the +X of the bow, the arrow counts only as magic for bypassing DR.

An aligned bow will share its alignment.

FAQ wrote:

Magic Ranged Weapons and Ammunition: When a ranged weapon shares its enhancement bonus with its ammunition, does this count as “true” enhancement bonus or more like a temporary bonus like greater magic weapon? In other words, does the shared enhancement bonus allow the arrow to bypass damage reduction as if it was cold iron, silver, adamantine, and aligned?

No, other than the ways indicated in the Core Rulebook (if the ranged weapon is at least +1, they count as magic, and if the ranged weapon is aligned they count as that alignment as well) the enhancement bonus granted to ammunition from the ranged weapon doesn’t help them overcome the other types of damage reduction. Archers and other such characters can buy various sorts of ammunition or ammunition with a high enhancement bonus to overcome the various types of damage reduction.
posted May 2017 | back to top

Many of the FAQ's are BS at many tables. This is an example of a rules complication that was not needed.

But ok, so the ammunition doesn't go through DR, It's not difficult to deal enough damage and get enough attacks for DR to be a non issue even for ranged. Our table usually forgets that high enhancement bonus weapons go through DR anyway, and we don't have an issue taking down bad guys with substantial DR.


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If you want to branch away from Paizo products, there's a book out there entitled "World's Largest Dungeon", a huge tome that is one giant dungeon, and IIRC rules neutral.


We long ago got tired of the ledger keeping of tracking gear (especially ammunition) to this level. We assume that a ranged character can make new ammunition during the evening camp/downtime, and will have enough made for a days worth of adventuring, thus negating the need for durable arrows. We have also discovered that DR is not usually enough of an issue to warrant the use of special materials, especially once a weapons magic bonus gets high enough to penetrate most DR's on it's own. Of course your game may differ, but we have found that getting rid of this level of bookkeeping freed game time up so that we can concentrate on the other aspects of game.


Belafon wrote:

Here's a silly thing I did one time that both made me feel good about my contributions AND got the other players to realize how important support characters are.

We were at 11th level and I was playing an evangelist cleric. I think on average I made about one attack roll every four sessions. Sometimes another player would count up numbers they had written down and say something like "wow, I did over 150 points of damage that fight!" One fight I said "I'm going to track my damage too!" So when the barbarian said "I did 70 points that round!" I said "Nope. You used my blessing of fervor to make an extra attack, so all the damage from that attack is mine. You missed with a 28, but the 30 hit, so that damage is all mine too (inspire courage). You did hit with your first attack on your own, so you get to count all but 3 of that damage (inspire courage, again)."

Note, that this was all said in fun and we were enjoying it. It wasn't really a competition.

Yep, I've quite often said that Haste is one of the most damage dealing spell a wizard can cast.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Are you asking how far away the party without a light source can see the light from the lantern, or are you asking how far away the party without the light source can see the party with the lantern? Those are two separate issues. They will be able to see the lantern from quite a distance away assuming that nothing blocks the light. In order to identify the character in the party with the lantern they will need to be a lot closer.

What spurred the discussion was an archer hiding in the darkness in the woods wanted to know if he could see a party riding down the road at night with a few lanterns well enough to shoot one of them. We've always just allowed it, but someone asked if there should be a penalty of some sort.

from what we could tell by the "rules" that since he was in a dark area, he couldn't see them at all, but that didn't make any sense to us, hence the question.


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as they are monsters, the GM can have them heal however much he wants.


Class level.


Arkat wrote:
Is there any feat or other ability that allows you to use your STR modifier as the "to hit" stat instead of DEX when using a thrown weapon?

don't worry about doing a STR build for shuriken, go DEX and embrace it, build it as you would an archer build. use Deadly Aim, and One of the gloves that gives your weapon flaming of acid, at 10th level you should have around 4 or 5 Shuriken throws all at around 1d2 + 4 + 1d6 fire + 5d6 sneak attack. 30d6 potential damage in one round is pretty nice.


Taja the Barbarian wrote:
Typically, some method of getting your thrown magic weapon to return to your hand after each throw is mandatory after a few levels,

Shuriken are considered ammunition, any that hit are "destroyed or rendered useless" and those that miss have a 50% chance of the same. so making them returning is generally worthless.

That being said, you can indeed Sneak attack with every shuriken you throw if you qualify for sneak attack with those attacks.

At 10th level, a Ninja can become invisible as Greater Invisibility using the Invisible Blade Ninja Trick, this works perfectly to provide sneak attack damage for all the shuriken in a shuriken flurry. I typically don't even bother with the weapon damage, and just roll the sneak attack damage.


John Mechalas wrote:
The rules on lighting define what you can see in an area that is illuminated by a light source, not what light sources you can see. There are no rules for the latter, and you'll need to use your discretion. In total darkness, a bright light source can be seen from a considerable distance.

that's what I was thinking. Thanks everyone.


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So we had a discussion at last nights game, and we can't find anything official on it, so if someone could please point us to something official, it would be a great help.

If a party is in an area of darkness, with no light source of their own, and encounters another party using a lantern, campfire, sunrod etc as a light source, from how far away can they see them.

The rules seem to imply that if you are in an area of darkness, that you can't see the other party at all until you are in the area of their light source. But we all know from experience that out in the woods, you can clearly see people around a campfire, yet be beyond it's range.

I know this is using real world concepts, but I'm curious if the game just left this out, of are there official rules for it.


in no particular order

Vanishing Trick
Flurry of Stars
Invisible Blade
Ghost Step
Evasion
Improved Evasion
Shadow Clone

If you are doing TWF, then you want Piranha Strike.


Swashbuckler Flying Blade.


Zepheri wrote:
So in real life you guys can see a person at 800 ft fighting your friend with total clarity and shoot it with a bow with no penalty. That mean all person are Legolas I not asking for concealment, illumination, etc . I'm asking about distance of the weapon and the range of sight ( your vision with your eyes) to a target that is in melee with a friend of yours but they are far away from your "normal range of view", still apply the preciset shot

In Pathfinder you take a -2 penalty to shoot for each range increment beyond the first. As long as you can see them, and they are within your max range, then yes Precise shot can be used.


Zepheri wrote:


What I mean if I'm a sniper an want to shoot a target that is in melee with a friend at 65-80 ft and you max sight of vision is 60ft can precise shot apply?
Or if the target pass the maximum range of weapon range (let say 123ft) and it's in melee with friendly do precise shot apply?

Still unsure what you are asking. There is no "Max sight of vision", unless there is darkness of some kind involved.

If you can't see a target due to darkness, then you really can't make an attack. However, anytime you can make an attack, you can use Precise shot.

Also, the max Range on a thrown weapon is 5x its range increment, for projectile weapons, it's 10X (so for a longbow, this is 1000 feet). As long as there is enough light to see the target within these range increments - then you can use Precise Shot.


John Mechalas wrote:
TxSam88 wrote:

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/disrupt-silence/

Cast this.....

...but be aware of the limits. Silence is a 20' radius emanation, while Disrupt Silence is only a 10' radius emanation. So it won't completely cover the silenced area. Worst case, you end up with a donut shape area where sound works in the middle but still doesn't reach outside the silenced area. That's good enough for the bard to cast spells with verbal components, but sound still won't reach people "outside".

"Additionally, disrupt silence can automatically counter or dispel any magical silence effect of equal or lower level cast upon the same target, such as silence."

Silence would be dispelled.


https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/disrupt-silence/

Cast this.....


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Honestly, if I was one of your players, I'd just tell you to ban all spell using classes, as these rules put them in the close to unplayable area, especially considering the boost you've given to martials. Or, just swap to a system built around low-magic. I think zweihander and Conan bot are built that way.


zza ni wrote:
just make sure your archer can deal with the other two common arrows shutdowns (beside deflecting\cut from air) - wind wall and a fighter who move and ready his tower shield once you start shooting.

yep - never had a bad guy in an AP with those either.


"Black iron axe" is it's name, not it's description.


Dragonchess Player wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Taja the Barbarian wrote:

Typically, an archer should have a supply of Cold Iron Arrows with Weapon Blanch (Silver) applied to them to cover the most common DRs: This brings the cost of 20 arrows up from 1g to 12g (1g for the base arrows, doubled to 2g for being made of Cold Iron, plus 10g for enough Blanch for all 20 arrows), but that is still an inconsequential amount after your first few levels...

I think that a special material weapon can benefit either from the Blanch or its original material, not both at the same time. The arrowhead is completely coated by the blanch, so the target isn't hit by the original special material.

You are confusing weapon blanch with silversheen. Weapon blanch explicitly states "a weapon made of one special material (such as adamantine) can have a different material blanch (such as silver), and counts as both materials for the first successful hit."

For adamantine, a handful of durable arrows with adamantine arrowheads (61 gp each) can often be worth investing in on reaching middle levels.

Note: I have to admit a preference for the PF1 arcane archer (actually an eldritch knight with a 2-4 level "dip" in arcane archer; or an elf/half-elf oracle with the Wood mystery taking four levels of Deadeye devotee). Figuring out ways to bypass DR without investing in extra feats or having to spend more gp than necessary was something I put some thought into.

We play the AP's and DR isn't enough of an issue to ever worry about being able to bypass it. Like, we're in book 5 of Skulls and Shackles, and I think we've had DR in like 3 encounters.... And when you can del 30-50 points of damage in a hit, DR 5 is not slownig you down much.


Phoebus Alexandros wrote:
I just happen to think that, mechanically and flavor-wise, melee has as much going for it.

Most Certainly - Lots of fun to be had with almost any build.

The issue we had with archers was the high init score, combined with range and huge damage, typically meant the encounter boss was dead before the melee fighter got to even act. So while that melee guy could chew through the minions to get to the boss, the big target would already be dead.


Phoebus Alexandros wrote:
Sysryke wrote:
TxSam88 wrote:

I assume I have the feats that negate most of those penalties and just look at potential damage on a hit (basically assume I hit)

Also, a well built fighter archer will out pace the damage of a well built melee fighter, simply due to not having to move, but also having more iterative attacks due to many shot and rapid shot.

Assuming that that's true, which I'm not arguing, aside from play style what incentive does anyone have to build a melee fighter?

After about a decade's worth of supplements, there are so many options that the game can't be reduced to simple ranged vs. melee mechanics (in my humble opinion).

Fighters have a ton of feats. Don't get me wrong, you can easily, absolutely build a great archer fighter with all those feats. At the same time, you could also build a great fighter who goes the way of Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, Cut from the Air, and Improved Critical, dealing tons of damage while deflecting arrows loosed at him. You could even progress him toward mounted pounce by level 7 (or later through feats).

first range increment for a longbow is 100'. the archer, who will probably go fist, will get 1 or 2 rounds of shooting before the melee with pounce gets to attack. but it's seldom about PC vs PC, is PC vs bad guy, and they seldom have those specialized type builds.


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https://aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=303

RAW - Shocking weapons work as normal, aside from the normal weapon attack penalties.


Dragonchess Player wrote:


Note, this is what the feats Point Blank Shot (+1 on attack rolls within 30 ft) and Precise Shot (no penalty for shooting at enemies in melee) are for. They are pretty much "must haves" for a ranged attacker.

As far as effectiveness goes, archery/ranged combat can be more effective than melee combat (mainly because archery/ranged combat can make full attacks more often), but archery/ranged combat requires more investment in feats to get there.

The other must haves are Rapid Shot, Many Shot and Deadly Aim. A fighter Class can have all the feats he needs to be an exceptional Archer by level 11.


Sysryke wrote:
TxSam88 wrote:

I assume I have the feats that negate most of those penalties and just look at potential damage on a hit (basically assume I hit)

Also, a well built fighter archer will out pace the damage of a well built melee fighter, simply due to not having to move, but also having more iterative attacks due to many shot and rapid shot.

Assuming that that's true, which I'm not arguing, aside from play style what incentive does anyone have to build a melee fighter?

well, it's a ROLE playing game, not a ROLL playing game. That enough should make people want to play all kinds of sub-par characters.


I assume I have the feats that negate most of those penalties and just look at potential damage on a hit (basically assume I hit)

Also, a well built fighter archer will out pace the damage of a well built melee fighter, simply due to not having to move, but also having more iterative attacks due to many shot and rapid shot.


Ju-Mo. wrote:

Cast any spell (with a standard action or less) of you spell list of a level you can cast as a swift action.

For a figher there is a mythic path ability, that gives you +5 on you
subsequent attacks.
So a fighter 12 with normal +12/+7/+2 who uses it 2 times gets +12/+12/+12, which means with another mythic path ability nat 1 isnt a fail, you hit nearly every monster every time without even rolling.
Just because even in normal games a figther often hits with his first attack if he rolls higher than a 1.

I'm not saying that Mythic isn't powerful, I haven't played it yet, so I don't know, all I'm saying is that it seems that many of the things it gives can be obtained by a regular character.

Your spell caster example - easily duplicated by a metamagic rod of quicken.

Fighter, Haste will give an extra attack at full BAB. (There are a number of full BAB classes that can self haste). Not to mention the feats Many shot and Rapid Shot

Barbarian that can teleport and make full Attack - Multi class as Magus/Barbarian.

agreed, it's not ideal - I'm simply saying it's possible.


Chuck Mount wrote:

I haven't seen the magus ability that lets him teleport and then do a full attack. If that's a thing, it's ridiculous

I haven't seen any rogue talents that lets you ignore being hit and then teleport away.

Spell combat and just about any teleport spell will give a teleport and full around attack..... my current character is using Phase Step, I wish it worked with Dimensional Slide.

Shadow Duplicate is pretty close to the Loki trick, just lacking the teleport, and there's always the Cloak of fiery vanishing, or the Cape of the Mountebank. both would be similar to the Loki effect.

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