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These are our base house rules - as we begin each new campaign they get modified to fit it.

1. No third party products
2. Character creation.
a. Ability stat generation style to be determined by Game Master prior to character generation.
i. Typical styles include:
1. Point build (example: 20 point, place as desired, then apply racial bonus).
2. Dice roll (4d6 drop lowest, place as desired then apply racial bonus).
3. Array (17, 15, 13, 13, 11, 11 place as desired then apply racial bonus).
ii. For Normal Games
1. Initial Stats (Before racial traits) must be between 10 and 17.
b. Allowed races.
i. For Normal Game
1. Core races can be freely chosen.
2. Featured races are allowed with discretion, DM’s approval
3. Uncommon Custom races, rarely with DM’s approval
4. Randomizer with DM’s approval.
5. No custom Races
ii. For Short Games
1. Core Races freely chosen
2. Featured Races freely chosen
3. Uncommon races with DM’s approval
4. Freely use randomizer
5. No custom Races.
c. Banned classes.
i. For Normal Games.
1. Summoner
2. Fighter
a. Archer
3. Undead Lord
4. Arcane Trickster
5. Arcane Archer
6. Anything from Occult Game
a. Kineticist is allowed.
ii. For Short Games
1. No banned list.
iii. At GM’s discretion
1. Gestalt may be allowed.
2. Any banned classes may be allowed.
d. Alignment.
i. Any non-evil alignment is allowed.
e. Equipment.
i. All characters can have “mundane” equipment of their choosing.
ii. No special materials or properties.
iii. Characters still get starting gold on top of “mundane” equipment.
iv. Ignore encumbrance. It is assumed you can drop your gear at the beginning of battle.
v. Unlimited “normal” ammunition except in special circumstances.
vi. No guns/technology except in the “appropriate” campaigns
3. Character Advancement.
a. Experience Points
i. Use “Milestone Levelling”
ii. All party members will be at the same level.
b. Hit Points
i. When rolling for Hit points, reroll until you get a number on the upper half of the die.
1. Example, if you roll a d8 for HP, you can re-roll any result of 1-4.
ii. For Gestalt Games use Max Hit-points
4. Spells and Magic.
a. Use Spell memorization per rulebooks.
b. No spell components are required.
c. Spell Concentration is not used.
d. Use the spell templates we have created instead of the “grid” spell areas.
5. Combat.
a. Bleed is not used.
b. Critical hits:
i. A roll of a 20 is always a critical, unless a 20 is the only way you could hit the opponent. In this case, the Natural 20 is still a hit, but must be confirmed to be a critical.
c. Surprise Round
i. If surprised (unaware) you are considered flat footed until your turn and do not get to act in the surprise round.
ii. If not surprised, you may take a Move or a Standard action.
iii. Even if you have already gone, you are still considered flat footed vs. undetected (Stealth or Invisible) opponents.
d. Precision Damage
i. If any of your attacks qualify for precision damage (backstab) during a round then all of your attacks versus the same opponent qualify for precision damage.
ii. You cannot use precision damage against an opponent who has concealment.
e. Sniping (Attack at range, while stealthy)
i. Can grant precision damage if applicable, typically to a target which has not seen you.
ii. After your attack, if you have not moved, you may make a stealth check. If successful, then you have not been spotted and may attack again from stealth the next round.
6. Movement.
a. Diagonal movement is still 5’ per square, no normal square counts double.
7. Skill and Ability checks:
a. A roll of a 20 is always a success, a roll of a 1 is always a failure.
8. Poison
a. Characters use the Unchained Poison rules. (See Appendix)
b. Encounters use the rules as written.
9. Saving throws
a. A natural 20 is always a success.
b. A natural 1 is always a failure.
i. Items do not need to make a check on a natural roll of a 1.
10. Spell DC’s
a. Spells DC is based on the highest-level spell the caster can cast, not the spells actual level.
11. Magic items and Items carried.
a. Cannot be damaged or broken unless specifically targeted.
i. Unless their description says otherwise.
12. Eidolon
a. Equipment which has been attuned to the Eidolon (worn/wielded for 12 hours) travels with the Eidolon when it is summoned/banished.
13. Feats
a. Use the Elephant in the Room “Weapon groups”
b. “Bladed Brush” does work with Spell Combat and Spell Strike.
c. Banned Feats
i. Leadership
14. Under trial:
a. Automatic Bonus Progression.
15. Fear
a. Modify the different stages of Fear to be as follows:
i. Shaken: -2 Penalty on Attack Rolls, Saving Throws, Skill Checks, Ability Checks. (This is as normal)
ii. Frightened: -4 Penalty on Attack Rolls, Saving Throws, Skill Checks, Ability Checks, Cannot take a full round action.
iii. Panicked: -6 Penalty on Attack Rolls, Saving Throws, Skill Checks, Ability Checks, Can only take 1 action per turn.
16. Sickened and Nauseated
a. Modify the different stages of Sickened to be as follows:
i. Sickened: –2 Penalty on all Attack Rolls, Weapon Damage Rolls, Saving Throws, Skill Checks, and Ability Checks.
ii. Nauseated: –4 Penalty on all Attack Rolls, Weapon Damage Rolls, Saving Throws, Skill Checks, and Ability Checks. Can only take one action per turn. Cannot cast spells with a verbal component.


we quit using encumbrance long ago. unless the characters are in a dire situation, after a few levels, magic and magic items make carrying anything you want pretty much a non issue. and it makes sense that character could quick drop their packs when combat starts. The only thing we still use is a simply limit on what they can have "handy", which is generally limited to a couple of weapons and a few magic items.


sounds like you're wanting more HP (as this is probably the biggest place the stats gets used every level), just use max HD and leave it at that.


I think the confusion here is with the Eidolon. Your player wants to summon an eidolon that is an Azata. that's not how it works, he is not summoning an Azata, he is summoning an Eidolon, which he can make LOOK like an Azata. None of the Eidolons stats are based off of the Azata, but on the Summoners caster level, and the shape/evolutions he spends on the Eidolon.


Melkiador wrote:
TxSam88 wrote:
Melkiador wrote:
You’ll want plans for when you get grappled.
Dimensional Slide

That doesn’t work.

Quote:
Grappled: A grappled creature is restrained by a creature, trap, or effect. Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity
dimensional slide wrote:
This ability is used as part of a move action

Cannot move /= cannot take a move action. there are quite a few things in the game that are move actions but are not moves.


Melkiador wrote:
You’ll want plans for when you get grappled.

Dimensional Slide


Taja the Barbarian wrote:
We're going to need a little more context here:
  • First of all, are you really combining a 25pt buy + Gestalt + Mythic? Honestly, that's a bit of overkill for a 15pt buy + Mythic adventure that is really kinda easy by the end.
  • Second, what is your actual intent with this character? Is it just a caster with a martial 'side-hustle' or is it something more ambitious? You kinda need to outline what you plan to do as you level up for us to advise you on your viability.

The GM has asked that all characters be either Paladins or Inquisitors a one half of the gestalt build. My build is trying to be more Wizard/swashbuckler with the virtuous bravo archtype. The paladin class is really little more that a disguise.

I'm hoping to build up mainly as Wizard/Archmage/utility wizard, but be helpful as a flanker and able to do precision damage. Daggers with TWF is the main attack, the Glaive is again more paladin disguise, imagine a Paladin that fights dirty. Eventually I want to pick up True Name Exploit and be able to summon some demons to help us fight the demons. I'll be the Paladin with questionable alignment in the end, but they keep me around because of how helpful his abilities are.

We did a lot of discussion as a group around 25 point/gestalt/mythic, and decided it would be fun to go over the top, and the GM says she can certainly increase the difficulty yo make it a challenge.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

When I first read the paladin wizard it looked like a terrible idea, but for a WoR campaign it looks like it will be surprisingly effective. I am assuming you are raising your INT, DEX, and CHA as you go up in levels. So, far it looks good but what is your plan forward?

I do have to agree that a 25-point gestalt mythic might be overkill. Hopefully your GM is boosting the difficulty a bit.

yeah, INT/DEX/CHA are the main stats to boost.


The biggest pro to the adventure path is that, IMO, you get a far better story in the same amount of DM prep time.

Aside from that Paizo has made supplemental products that go along with each AP, like dice, Pawns, NPC cards, Primers, Miniatures, Etc.


Our group will be starting Wrath of the Righteous soon and this is what I have put together as a potential character. Once the Mythic levels hit, I plan on going Archmage.

I'd like to know if you think it's a viable build, anything in particular I should pick up a long the way, or any general advice

Thanks ahead of time

Caleth Aranor
Male half-elf paladin (oath of the mendevian crusade, virtuous bravo) 1/gestalt 1/wizard (exploiter wizard) 1
LG Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init +2; Senses low-light vision; Perception +4
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 12, touch 12, flat-footed 10 (+2 Dex)
hp 11 (1d10+1)
Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +3; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune sleep; Resist fire 1
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee dagger +3 (1d4/19-20) or
dagger +3 (1d4/19-20) or
glaive +1 (1d10/×3) or

Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft. (10 ft. with glaive)
Special Attacks arcane reservoir (1/4), smite evil 1/day (+2 attack, +0 AC, +1 damage)
Paladin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 1st; concentration +5)
At will—detect evil
Wizard (Exploiter Wizard) Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +6)
1st—mage armor, shocking grasp
0 (at will)—arcane mark, light, message, ray of frost
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 10, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 17, Wis 12, Cha 15
Base Atk +1; CMB +1; CMD 13
Feats Scribe Scroll, Skill Focus (Linguistics), Spell Focus (evocation)

Traits demon eradicator (mendev), riftwarden orphan

Skills Knowledge (arcana) +7, Knowledge (planes) +7, Perception +4, Spellcraft +7, Use Magic Device +3; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception

Languages Abyssal, Celestial, Common, Elven, Hallit

SQ bravo's finesse, elf blood

Other Gear dagger, dagger, glaive, backpack, bandolier[UE], bedroll, belt pouch, flint and steel (2), hammer, ink, inkpen, iron spike[APG] (5), mess kit[UE], pot, sack, sealing wax, soap (2), spell component pouch, tabard[UE], torch (10), trail rations (5), waterskin, wrist sheath, spring loaded (2), 960 gp, 6 sp, 4 cp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Arcane Reservoir +1 DC or CL (4/day) (Su) Pool of points fuel exploits, or can expend to add +1 CL or DC while cast spell.
Bravo's Finesse (Ex) Use Dex for att with light/1-hand pierce wep. Use Cha instead of Int for combat feat pre-reqs.
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Dimensional Slide (10 feet) (Su) Use 1 reservoir as part of move/withdraw, move to spot in sight for only 5 ft movement & no AoO.
Elf Blood Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Energy Resistance, Fire (1) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Fire attacks.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Smite Evil (1/day) (Su) +2 to hit, +1 to damage, +0 deflection bonus to AC when used.
Spell Focus (Evocation) Spells from one school of magic have +1 to their save DC.


we're currently playing a campaign with a winter witch/gestalted with a cold based kineticist that's very themed and very potent.


Dragonchess Player wrote:
Plus, the "typical" party back then was usually six to eight characters instead of four.

Yes, there we even nights when we had upwards of 15-20 players and just 1 GM. I do not miss those days - as very little got done.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Invisible Blade has a prerequisite of 10th level Ninja, the character only has 4 levels of Ninja so will not qualify.

didn't build it, and he didn't list what class he had taken at what levels, didn't feel like sorting it out.


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At 10th level or higher - I would try to get Invisible Blade. Greater Invisibility allows you to get sneak attack on ALL your attacks.


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Derklord wrote:

While you could argue a tank as a build does exist, when people talk about what they need for a party, the mean tank as a role, and that cannot exist without a reliable way of making sure that character gets attacked.

simple - be in front - be a threat, have tons of HP or AC.

it's not hard to do.

Way too many bad guys have just melee weapons, simply being in front is usually enough to "draw aggro".

But in table top RPG's drawing aggro is not the definition of Tank. Tanks can take a ton of damage, thus freeing up the healer to keep the rest of the party alive.

as for wasted resources, I disagree.

Derklord wrote:


Can we please as a collective stop calling this outdated garbage "balanced"? It's not. It never was. It's literally one of the most unbalanced parties you could make

NO - because it was and still is a very balanced party - it covers all of the potential encounter types in a classic style adventure.

Just because YOU don't like it, doesn't mean anything to the rest of us.


you are correct, typical use of it is to spread it on the ground, it creates a hole, 6' in diameter, and 10' deep. you need to be able to spread it out completely. so no putting it on a ceiling or wall.

it does not allow you to pass through floors or anything like portrayed in the Drizzt novels.

aside from it being a very lightweight portable storage system, people can hide in it, as long as the air inside lasts, or if they have a way of not suffocating.

the intent of the item is to store things, but that they are not easily retrieved during combat.


Dragonchess Player wrote:
TxSam88 wrote:
Derklord wrote:

And a tank isn't even a thing in this game.

yes it is - it can be done typically 2 ways, someone with lots of AC, or someone with lots of HP.
He may be using the MMO terminology of tank as "drawing aggro." Not the original RPG terminology of a character with high defenses and causing high damage.

welllll - I guess since we are discussing an RPG, then......


Derklord wrote:

And a tank isn't even a thing in this game.

yes it is - it can be done typically 2 ways, someone with lots of AC, or someone with lots of HP.


Oli Ironbar wrote:
TxSam88 wrote:
I'm not sure when this situation would occur. even with homebrew, the encounters presented to the party should be the appropriate CL for the APL.

Yeah, our player who has mastered the prepared caster has negated a number of encounters entirely or otherwise just tips the odds so far in our favor that our martials (who already punch above the APL) just have to clean up consistently.

Do your GM's just increase the CR above standard for the APL?

Oh, long ago we decided to always max hit points on the bad guys, and then upped the CR of the encounter. at low levels not so much, but as the party gets closer to 20th level, we up the CR more and more (usually about CR+5 at 20th level).

remember the CL vs APL system was meant for 4 inexperienced players at 15 point builds, with non-optimized characters in a non-optimized party.

if you change any one of these, you need to up the CR.


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I'm not sure when this situation would occur. even with homebrew, the encounters presented to the party should be the appropriate CL for the APL.

the closest I have come to this is every once in a while, a party will have EXACTLY the right tool to negate an encounter with a single dice roll or less.


Melkiador wrote:
Merellin wrote:
I dont know why everyone is bringing up wizards, Wizard was never on the table, I'm pondering Arcanist or Sorcerer, No interest in Wizard...

I guess it’s just the nature of the discussion. Hard to discuss the users of this spell list without bringing in all 3 options. Honestly, all three are surprisingly well balanced against each other. For this discussion, I prefer sorcerer for blasting and arcanist for utility.

Also, as Mysterious Stranger pointed out, arcanist archetypes are pretty significant. They can really change the way the class plays.

I bring up the Wizard - specifically the Exploiter - because it basically is an Arcanist, but on Steroids.


Melkiador wrote:
Merellin wrote:
I dont know why everyone is bringing up wizards, Wizard was never on the table, I'm pondering Arcanist or Sorcerer, No interest in Wizard...

I guess it’s just the nature of the discussion. Hard to discuss the users of this spell list without bringing in all 3 options. Honestly, all three are surprisingly well balanced against each other. For this discussion, I prefer sorcerer for blasting and arcanist for utility.

Also, as Mysterious Stranger pointed out, arcanist archetypes are pretty significant. They can really change the way the class plays.

Agreed, I have found that the Exploiter Wizard, with the Admixture school, is better than an Arcanist, and on par or better than a sorcerer.


it may be my play style - but I find Arcanists to be superior to Sorcerers, the Arcana abilities, combined with a larger number of spells known make it a better class in my opinion. but I've never had an issue with knowing what spells to learn - the list is generally pretty simple.


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Lord Fyre wrote:
Taason the Black wrote:

While there are many Pathfinder rules that do not make a lot of sense to me, none is worse imho than the rule that all paladins have to be LG. With that said, it is impossible to be a paladin of Cayden Cailean since his alignment chart is CG, NG, CN.

The actually concept of paladin is holy warrior for a deity, not some overzealous policeman upholding the law. For that you have hellknights.

Is there a workaround for this or does PF throw its hands in the air and just say not all good aligned deities have paladins?

Given the way that Paizo changed Paladins in 2nd Edition, they agree with this idea.

Gray Paladin exists in PF1


Melkiador wrote:
In my experience, it is incredibly rare to have a paladin in your party and somewhat rare to have a magus. You’re more likely to have a ranger and a fighter or rogue.

My experience is exactly the opposite. We have 2 players that play Paladin and Magus over 50% of the time.


doc chaos wrote:
40 or 50 sounds good.

so, I really liked how Skulls & Shackles handled it. As a Pirate Lord, you and your party, along with your crew, fight against another pirate lord, his henchmen, and his crew.

The actual in game part is purely your party and maybe 4-5 crewmen, against the pirate lord and his small entourage. All the other crew are simply fighting in the background. whoever wins the small battle between the parties, wins the overall battle. while your crew takes some losses, enough of the other crew are willing to swear loyalty that the net effect is you still have a full crew (maybe a few extras).

As for other methods, breaking then 40-50 per side up into small 5-10 person encounters on the battle field, while the rest rages on in the background seems workable.

I also like how Reign of Winter handles large armies. Basically they cam up with a new type of Swarm, the "Troop unit". 20-40 men act as a single large swarm. So your party or 4 can go against 4 or 5 "troops" which in reality is 100 men.


what are you talking about when you say mass combat?

Whole armies with 1000's of troops, or small bands of like 40-50 on each side?


Alchemir wrote:

I had a discussion with our GM about the general ruling of the lvl4 cleric spell "blessing of fervor". One of the effects, you can choose from while under the effect of the spell is "Make one extra attack as part of a full attack action, using its highest base attack bonus."

Example. I have a cleric with two attacks, +7 and +2. How many attacks do I get and what are the attack boni?

Our ruling so far was that I get two attacks with +7, and that's it. Or should it rather be two times +7 and once +2?
Is there any official ruling for this spell?

No ruling needed - its very clear that you get an extra attack on top of all the attacks you already have. Same as Haste


They did this in the Rolemaster system. when you learned a spell, you actually learned a "list" of a spell, and based upon your level and how much mana you pumped into the spell, you gained higher level effects of the spell.

For instance, if you were 5th level, you would know the whole lightning bolt list, all 1-20, steps of it, but you could only cast the first 5 steps, and you topped out at spending 5 mana, so, if you wanted a small lighting effect, you could spend 2 mana,getting the 2nd level effect, or go for broke and spend 5. (you could only spend as much mana on a spell as your level)


Phoebus Alexandros wrote:
Giant Hunter's Handbook said wrote:
If the weapon is wielded by a creature whose size matches that of the weapon’s intended wielder, the weapon is treated as a light melee weapon when determining whether it can be used with Weapon Finesse, as well as with any feat, spell, or special weapon ability that can be used in conjunction with light weapons.

I think RAI here points to feats that require a character to be wielding a light weapon, rather than feats that merely improve when a light weapon is used. At the same time, "Two-Weapon Fighting can be used in conjunction with light weapons" is an objectively true statement. Authors interested in a more restrictive use of Effortless Lace could simply have written "require the use of light weapons," instead.

Regardless, Effortless Lace strikes me as very cheap even if it's only intended to be a back door to Weapon Finesse, Piranha Strike, Cloak and Dagger Style, etc.

Considering that for the most part, effortless lace allows you have all that stuff and swap from a d4/d6 weapon to a d8, it really doesn't "do" all that much.


Anonymous Visitor 912 883 wrote:
@schoolboy runaway Yes, you can — but with caveats. Rapiers are classified as one-handed piercing weapons, and they are not light weapons, which affects how Two-Weapon Fighting (TWF) works.

Give both Rapiers Effortless lace and suddenly they are light weapons....


"As an immediate action (but no more than once per combat round), the current user of the Sihedron can instantaneously transfer the artifact to another willing creature within 120 feet."

So the GM might have misread this ability of the Sihedron, thus why you were able to apply it to the whole party. As for the +4 to a Stat, that was most likely a house rule to make it somewhat more powerful, since as is, it's a but of a weak artifact.


3 levels of Musket Master Gunslinger - 17 levels of Eldritch Archer Magus.


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"The weapon retains all of its enhancement bonuses and weapon special abilities."

All of the things the Null blade does is either an Enhancement Bonus, or a Special Ability. RAW, those stay if it's turned into another weapon.


RAW - yes


GM DarkLightHitomi wrote:
Goth Guru wrote:

Bell curve option. Replace D20 with 4D6-3.

Less fumbles and crits, if you want that.
I’m curious, why this? What’s your thinking that leads to this option over those in the opening post?

my guess is that it gives a bell curve option, but keeps the roll numbers of 1-21, which is essentially 1-20, so nothing else needs to be changed.


my pawns arrived today and in great shape - thanks again to Ben for his contribution to my PF1 addiction.


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Sysryke wrote:


1. Where does your screen name come from?
2. If it is a character, have you ever played the character in any games (single, multiple, different systems)?
3. If it's something else, what?
4. (Only if it's not against the rules) Country of origin (just country), to help give a SMIDGE of cultural context to any ideas or references.

1. I'm from Texas, my name is Sam, my lucky number is 88.

2. it is not a character name.
3. it's my location, my name, and my lucky number
4. I'm from Texas - greatest country on the planet.


IMO no, spending an action on doing something that doesn't deal damage to a bad guy is a waste of time.
a TWF/rogue build would give up a full round of attacking to do this, but in that same round, you could have potentially killed off a bad guy. Not to mention there are better feats to choose from.


play a Ninja, get Ghost step

Ghost Step (Su)
Prerequisites: Master tricks

Benefit: As a swift action, a ninja with this trick can pass through walls as if she were a ghost. Until the end of her turn, she can pass through a wall or other surface that is up to 5 feet thick per level as if she were incorporeal. She must exit the solid material by the end of her turn. Each use of this ability uses up 1 ki point.


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I'm more than happy to only get 9 sets instead of 10, we've already played Crimson Throne, so let Techbuilder have it

PM headed out with address etc.


BenS wrote:

Ok, glad to see some decent interest in these. Let's do this. I'll cap the winners at 3.

Ozreth, thanks for offering to split them even though you were the 1st claimant. You'll get the boxed sets. Send me a private message w/ your name/address and I'll get these out to you in the coming days.

TxSam88 & Tim Emrick, let's see if we can figure out how to split the AP collections.

TxSam88, can you tell me which set you currently own? If it's not Giantslayer or Pathfinder Society, for example, you can definitely get those, as Tim already has those. I'll try to shoot for an even split once I know the 1 collection you already own.

the only one we have is Reign of Winter, and we won't need Pathfinder Society.


if something falls through and the AP ones come available - I would love to have them. we play in person with miniatures, and we do APs, but the miniatures don't always have the right mini, so we are starting to use Pawns (only 1 set so far), so any more would be welcome.

Of course, let the first response have claim.


Warped Savant wrote:
Page 66 has a sidebar that states their breath weapon and immunities are dependent on their colouration.

thank you - man, it would have been nice if they put that near the Dragonkin entry they keep referring you too...


1. GM Fiat (just choose)
2. closest to previous target
3. random roll


Liliyashanina wrote:

I mean, AC42 is not that odd for a Level 15 PC, and since he is a BBEG he probably has a template.

10 base

+ 4 mage armor
+ 4 shield spell

+ 4 from crane style
+ 3 from combat exerptize
=25 without knowing any stats
+ wis mod if Monk dip
+ Dex Mod
+ Int mod
If all of these are between +5 to +8 (not unreasonable for a BBEG), you would already be at the 42ish.

Funnily enough this is prior to things such as deflection (be that form template acquired smite good or some other source) or natural armor (of which a templated half fiend, which seems to be what you are possibly describing, could have a fair bit)

I would recommend targetting him with dispells, as both the shield and the mage armor should be fairly easy to get rid off.
Getting rid of either already means that you quadruple to quintouple your chances of hitting.

It's already been mentioned that this was an Adventure Path, and a 42 AC in an Adventure Path is extremely out of the ordinary. (almost no NPCs have stats over 20, and even fewer have 2 over 20). In fact most Adventure Path NPCs are subpar builds, as they are meant to be only a slight challenge for 20 point builds, with a un-optimized party of 4.

the GM is obviously pumping this NPC ever the top to make it more survivable etc.

I will reiterate my point of having a discussion with your GM.

BTW: congratulations on playing with the same group for 10 years, IMO it makes the game much more enjoyable with good friends that have been around for a while. In my group the newest player has been around for about 5 years, one at 15, one at 30 and one at 38.


Merellin wrote:

We are level 13, My Eidolon currently has +22 to hit with three of her attacksa and +21 with the other two (Weapon Focus on the ones that hit a bit better) and I managed to hit the boss on a nat 19 with the +22 attack only because I had flanking...

+21 at level 13 is pretty awesome, if the BBEG has a +40AC, then your GM is building encounters well above your APL or flat out cheating, or building things to counter you. (I've never encountered a bad guy with a +40AC).

I'd have a long talk with your GM about the game and what kind of game everyone should be expecting.


Melkiador wrote:

A well built fighter can be very versatile with advanced weapon training. But I’m not sure if you’d find that fun. I assume that you probably like a little spellcasting in your character?

It’s really too late, but it’s strange that your eidolon was that level of inaccurate. The scaling bonus to strength and dexterity should keep your attack bonus relevant, though you will likely have an experience very similar to the monk’s flurry of misses. But you could boost these bonuses higher with other evolutions, like the large evolution, and your buffing spells. Another way to keep them relevant is by focusing on grappling, as the grab evolutions gives you +4 to grapple and the size bonuses also apply

Agreed - in our experience, Eidolons are some of the highest damage dealing members of the party.


I just want to make sure I am playing this right, every instance of a Dragonkin references Efrixes stat block on page 16, a Red dragonkin that can breath fire and is immune to fire. On Page 35, it lists 4 dragonkin, 3 of which shows a breath weapon other than fire and a matching immunity.
I find no mention in the AP of changing the element based on anything.

Does this mean:

1. All dragonkin breath fire and are immune to fire, and these 3 have an additional breath weapon and an additional immunity.

2. All dragonkin breath fire and are immune to fire except for these 3, who are uniquely different.

3. All dragonkin breath an element and have an immunity based on their color? (I suspect this is the truth, but was hoping it's printed somewhere)

Am I missing where this is laid out somewhere?

Thanks.


GM DarkLightHitomi wrote:

I agree, hence me narrowing things down to three options I presented in the OP. My hope was for more feedback to help select which of those three to go with, but personally I like option 3. I’d definitely want to hear from anyone having tried any of these options.

I might run some short games trying them out to get more direct feedback but any games I run would be a bit slow moving at the moment.

So IMO the 3 methods you list either require too many modification, or are too complicated.

1) 3d6 give you 3-18, so while it's a good bell curve, it really changes the values for crits (16-18 for roughly 5%, 15-18 for roughly 10%) this seems clumsy and possibly difficult to remember.

2) 3d12, I've already mentioned 2d12 and you dismissed it due to how it affects commoners, I would expect this to be dismissed for the same reason.

3) d12 plus stat based dice - I HATE HATE HATE systems that do this, it really slows down the game to have to figure out which dice or how many dice I get to roll for different types of events. keeping things simple - a SINGLE (this can be multiple dice for percentile, or bell curve etc) dice roll, plus a bonus that's ALREADY calculated is fast and easy - is IMO the best methodology.

I've play a lot of different systems, and by far the best ones are all roll a dice, add a number, compare to target number.

the worst are add up how many dice you get, roll dice, count successes, compare to a success value, or compare to an opposed roll.


GM DarkLightHitomi wrote:

it’s about the feel and ease of understanding, about which option is going to be better enjoyed by players.

IMO, your comment here is critical to a good game. You need to keep everything to a single type of die roll (everything in d20 aside from damage, is a d20+bonus vs a target number) IMO, you need to keep a system similar to this. you can change the die roll itself, and you can change where the bonus comes from, but do it the same for everything in the game.

I've played systems where your bonus is a dice roll + bonuses from 2 stats, it works well, especially in descriptive games where you can choose which 2 stats you use as long as you can justify how they apply to the situation.

As for wanting a bell curve - the only way to do this at the table top is with multiple dice that you add together.