OmniMage's page

Its not directly what you were asking about, but I thought you might want to know about related house rules.

I think there are too many item creation feats. To cut down on them, I've made 2 feats: Craft Magic Consumables, and Craft Permanent Magic Items.

Consumables are magic items that have limited uses or are hard to recharge. It covers scrolls, potions, wands, staves, and a number of miscellaneous items with finite uses. Most of them are cheap items that are priced at the bare minimum needed to store and cast spells. Only spellcasters can take this feat.

Craft Permanent Magic Items are for lasting magic items. It covers wondrous magic items, magic arms and armor, rings, and rods. They are much more expensive, so there is more leeway for mistakes and errors. Consequentially, any character can take this feat. Non spell casters can use craft or profession skills to craft instead of spellcraft. As an added perk, non spell casters can also craft items along side the spell casters instead of bugging them if they can go adventure yet.

The spell will only be giving the target a feat. I want a spell that gives me and my friends feats. My interest in paragon surge was the fact it give you a feat.

I don't want to be restricted to one feat per day. I'm considering the material component cost to counter the ability to get multiple feats per day.

I think the spell should be 3rd level (like paragon surge).

The school will be enchantment.

I'll add a material component cost of 150 gp per casting. I considered 250 gp, but stoneskin has that and its a 4th level spell, so I reduced it a little.

I'm limiting a target to only 1 instance of the spell at a time. Casting the spell again on the same target will have all prior instances of the spell being suppressed by the latest casting.

I'm considering limiting the spell to just combat feats. Hopefully that would limit chances for abuse.

I thought this thread was going to be about 2 archmages trying to attack each other with spells but failing to do any real harm because of high spell resistances.

Choosing an item creation feat would also be pointless as the spell only last 1 minute per level. I don’t know any item creation feats that allow you to create a magic item in 20 minute or less. The only exception might be an alchemist with swift alchemy but they can already get brew potion.

I'm aware of a trick that lets the caster to make the paragon surge last 24 hours. Something about a sorcerer bloodline and a magic ring that are able to make transmutation spells last longer. With that, you then can pick item creation feats when you cast the spell so you don't need to waste your normal feats to be able to craft magic items. Perhaps I should have mentioned it earlier. I must have assumed everyone has heard of it. I was already trying to protect against it when I when I brought it up.

The enchantment school does sound like a better pick for the new spell's school.

I'm mainly interested in the bonus feat.

Some alterations I've been considering:
-Only 1 instance of this spell can be in effect on a creature at a time. Each time the spell is recast on the target, it suppresses the previous instance.
-Also, the feat granted by this spell can't be an item creation feat.
-I might also add a material component cost so the caster isn't encouraged to spam this spell.

Is Paragon Surge OP? I have a character who is an elf but would want this spell. I'm considering having that character do spell research to create a different version of that spell so it can work on elves. I'm wondering if I should make other changes.

https://www.aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Paragon%20Surge

I don't think crafting mastery was ever meant to unlock mythic crafter. I don't have anything to back up this claim though, aside from that same feeling you'd probably had before asking this question.

Then again (after looking into it more), most magic item creation feats belongs to a group of feats called (item creation). Brew potion, craft wands, and even inscribe magical tattoo has that label. Mythic crafter however is a (mythic) feat.

https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Brew%20Potion

https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Mythic%20Crafter

Odd. AoN doesn't keep the (mythic) label for mythic feats. It has them for item creation. Maybe it just assumes it was implied or something.

Also, mythic crafter isn't on the page for item creation feats.
https://www.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?Category=Item%20Creation

Like a ring of 3 wishes, but without the limit on charges?

It would be a potent magical item. You could cast an unlimited number of spells. It could mimic any spell 8th level or lower from your spell list, or any spell 7th or lower from any spell list. Such spells would have their DCs set as though they were 9th level spells (but limited by only having the minimum DC possible as normal for most magic items), and at caster level 20. On top of that, it could do things that only the wish spell could do such as add inherent bonuses to your ability scores.

Bracers of armor are not idea. For bonuses of +1 to +4, you'd be better off with mage armor. Its cheaper and more effective to buy the Wizard a pearl of power 1.

For bonuses of +5 to +8, bracers of armor would be arguably more expensive than normal magic armor. It starts at the cost of a +5 armor and grows from there. Not only that, but if you want some special ability, you need to reduce the maximum armor bonus by that amount because bracers of armor can't exceed a modified bonus of +8. It also can't get bonuses that offer a flat gp increase.

I don't know why there is no metamagic still spell rod either. I figure that the reason might be because you had to move the rods to activate them, which defeats the purpose of still spell metamagic. However, in this case, still spell is not being used to remain completely still, it is to avoid arcane spell failure.

The drawbacks for arcane armor training feats is it takes 4 feats to get the 20% ASF perk, and you have to spend a swift action each turn to use it. It makes it difficult to use quicken spell later.

While I'm thinking about it, are there any spells that are better versions of mage armor, or a shield spell that last longer than minutes per level? I tried looking but I couldn't find any.

Celestial armor gives you an armor bonus of 9 (or 11 if you upgrade) vs a mage armor with an armor bonus of 4. Bracers of armor can get expensive.

@Mysterious Stranger

Seeing the stat differences between celestial armor and mithral breastplate is what got me curious if there were options for designing your own armor. I suppose this question should have been directed at Wizards of the Coast 20 odd some years ago since the armor was written by them around then.

@Azothath

I think I figured most of the equipment and spells you've mentioned. I'm guessing spellcaster's (quickdraw) shield is a quickdraw shield with the enhancements of spellcaster's shield.

Am I correct in assuming when you say "plus enhancements", it is for adding whatever armor enhancements I want.

I'm looking for good armor tips to negate armor check penalties, increase max dex cap, reduce arcane spell failure, etc. I'm trying to figure out ways to get a good AC while reducing the burden of wearing armor.

I favor full arcane spellcasters, but I may want to try classes that can use light armor such as a bard or gunslinger.

Thanks in advance.

Dang. I forgot to start with yes you can.

Yes you can use spell study to provide the spell requirements of magic items when crafting. It doesn't matter if you provide the spells, other spell casters provide the spells, or you use magic items to provide the spells. To that end, spell study can be used to cast spells, so I think spell study can provide the spells needed to craft magic items.

You need to be able to cast all the spells a magic item requires for every day the item is being crafted. This requirement can be met using any combination of your spells, spells from other spell casters, and spells from magic items.

When crafting magic items that cast spells (for instance scrolls, potions, wands, and staves), you need to be able to cast the spell(s) in question. This spell requirement can't be skipped for these kinds of magic item.

When it comes to other magic items, you can skip a requirement (even individual spells) by increasing the DC by 5. Magic item creation feats are the exception, you must have them.

https://www.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?Name=Magic%20Item%20Descriptions&Cate gory=Magic%20Items

Under requirements:

A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.

It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.

https://www.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?Name=Magic%20Item%20Creation&Category =Magic%20Items

Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.

I wouldn't allow it. Its too big of an upgrade. At least not without some cost.

DND 3.0 had a book called Savage Species which covers PCs being monsters. It provided many options, such as starting at level 1 and advancing as a class, or magically changing species.

To further add, I don't think glow is defined as a light source. I'm not sure if you can see something that is glowing in the dark. Mild, intense, whatever. At least thats my RAW interpretation. I'd rather house rule that the spell had no visual glow effect than be something that breaks invisibility.

This might be a case where the fluff interferes with the function of the spell.

I will say they would be invisible. Nothing in the spell's description says that the field can't itself become invisible.

Faerie Fire is an exception. It is designed to counter invisibility and other hidden things. Invisibility can't hide light, but it can hide light sources. I'm on the edge with Entropic Shield having a visible field though, but the spell doesn't mention it is a light source.

Also note that if the field was visible, the target of the spell would still be invisible. There would still be a 50% miss chance. The field would only reveal what square the character was in, so there would be no guessing where they were.

Omnimage- I am not disputing your costings as per the rules at all.

But... I guess this is the reason most magic items are almost never purchased or crafted by PCs.

It is easy to get twice the power out of half the 180,000 GPs you cost the item at.

Taking off 20% because you have no control over what you get seems, well stingy. And you don't give anything off because of its drawbacks'

I'm not really sure what you are saying here.

Taking off 20% because you have no control over what you get seems, well stingy. And you don't give anything off because of its drawbacks'

I'm not quite sure if taking 20% off because you can't control its effect was the best idea. I'd could probably find a better reason for a cost reduction.

It is easy to get twice the power out of half the 180,000 GPs you cost the item at.

I take it you are saying that you could much more mileage by crafting it instead of just finding it during an adventure? Yeah thats true, but crafting 2 180,000 gp items will normally take a year (craft time of 180 days x 2). Time might be limited depending on the campaign.

If you are looking for different types of spell casters, you could look up the Warlock from DND 3.5.

https://srd.dndtools.org/srd/classes/baseCarc/warlock.html

They had an eldritch blast ability that could blast things for 1d6 damage, and could be used an unlimited number of times per day. They also got invocations which were basically unlimited use per day spells. Some invocations could improve the effects of the eldritch blast.

OmniMage wrote:

Dragon78 wrote:

It would be cool if every character(regardless of race) got 1 free weapon prof. at level one.

I like that one. Maybe I'd use it to give my wizard elf prof with the elven curve blade. ;p

It's a fun idea, but it sounds like almost no one would ever use anything other than an exotic weapon. So, it shouldn't be a default rule, but it really would be a fun variant rule.

It was kind of a joke. As an elf, I would get proficiency in the longsword, rapier, shortbow, and longbow. And I could treat the elven curve blade as a martial weapon. As a wizard, that was good for weapons. If I was more serious about weapon choices, I might have picked the morningstar over the curve blade. As a weapon, it deals more damage than a quarterstaff, and deals damage as blunt and piercing simultaneously.

Or I could pick the feat simple weapon proficiency to cover all simple weapons. Then I could use that freebie weapon proficiency to get some other weapon.

It would be cool if every character(regardless of race) got 1 free weapon prof. at level one.

I like that one. Maybe I'd use it to give my wizard elf prof with the elven curve blade. ;p

I don't understand your using 1,500 instead of the 1,000 multiplier for spell pages. You say that's what spell pages use, but I can see that they use spell level squared x 1,000.

You're right... It seems that I got my magic items mixed up.

Acid splash and ray of frost are close range spells (25 ft + 5ft/2 levels). They're not likely to hit anything that the melee characters can't reach.

I also think a d3 is appropriate. Same damage as most other attack cantrips.

I would do a little bit of both. I would raise the dice to a d6, then add more as you level up.

Eagle Cape
Feather fall - at will: 2000 gp
Beast shape 1 (eagle only) - 1/day: 6000 gp
+5 bonus on perception (in eagle form only): 2500 gp

In addition to that, it gives a fly speed of 80 when using beast shape 1, which is normally limited to fly 30. I would be tempted to raise the price because of that. I would lower the price of the skill bonus because its limitations.

Total: 10500 gp.

However, its priced at 7000 gp, so maybe the designer thought the item a lower price to be worth buying.

Featherscale Cloak is a bit odd. Feather fall and hide from animals are both level 1 spells, so each are worth 400 gp. A +5 bonus to swim is worth 2500 gp (5*5*100 gp). Beast shape is a lv3 spell, so casting it once per day is worth 6000 gp, which is more the magic item is priced as. The total would be 9300 gp. The designer must have lowered the price, possibly because you can only take the shape of a bird or fish.

I'm not sure if I should raise the prices for the level 1 spells because the item has a CL of 5. Each of them would then be worth 2000 gp each. The total then would be 12500 gp, so I'm pretty sure the designer lowered the price by more than a third. Must have thought they would buy something else than the item at that price.

The Cloak of the Hedge Wizard (not hedgemage) totals to 2800 gp. Its listed as 2500 gp, so it must have been reduced.

It has 2 lv1 spells that can be used once per day, so each are worth 400 gp. It also has 2 cantrips can be used at-will, each are worth 1000 gp.

My math is for the level 1 spells is:
spell level * caster level * 2000 gp * charges per day (1 / 5).
So 1*1*2000/5/1 = 400 gp

My math is for the level 0 spells is:
spell level * caster level * 2000 gp * unlimited charges per day (1).
So 0.5*1*2000*1 = 1000 gp

So 1000 + 1000 + 400 + 400 is 2800 gp.
... maybe it'd cost less if I used command word instead of continious or use activated... redid math and I get 2520 gp.

There is a bit of a learning curve. Yes, it is annoying that many magic items don't usually show the math of how their prices were determined.

The first rule is these are estimates. Don't expect them to be always right. Especially when the items mimic spells. Some spells are more valuable than others, and should be worth more or less based upon that. Effects, on the other hand, I try to follow more strictly.

Lets look at staves. The most expensive spell is at 100% price, the second is at 75%, and any later is 50%. You should keep in mind that no matter how many spells you add to a staff, you will only be able to cast 1 spell per turn (assuming all spells take a standard action to cast).

Lets look at the belt of physical perfection and headband of mental superiority. These add a +2, +4, or +6 bonus to 3 ability stats at the same time. Because of this, they are more expensive. A +2 enhancement bonus to a single ability score is 4000 gp, but adding another is 6000 gp (50% more), and adding a third is another 6000 gp. So you get bonuses to 3 ability scores for 4x the price.

In dnd 3.5, adding abilities to the wrong slot would increase the price by 50%. So eye glasses of giant's strength would be worth 50% more than a belt of giant strength. This was the result of the wrong result item needing to work harder to get the same effect.

Slotless items cost 2x as much, but don't take up slots. Ioun stones are good examples of this. If you were to apply any of them to a slotted item, you should cut the price in half.

Baba Yaga (a CR 30 boss) uses the slotless rule to wear an extra rings.

I don't agree on the pricing method for upgrading magic items. The book rules say that the cost of adding a new ability to an existing magic it is 1.5 the price of the new ability. This can lead to a player spending more than what the item is worth. This can dissuade players from trying to upgrade magic items.

Instead, I prefer the price to upgrade be the difference between the old item and the new one.

This is a bit much to spit out at once. If you still have questions, I'll try to answer them later.

I estimate the item to be worth 180000 gp. Let me break down the math.

Replaced spells: 2000 gp. I'm not really sure how to price this, so I'll give it a small price.

Spells: 9*9*1500 gp = 121,500 gp. 8*8*1500 gp = 96,000 gp. I'm skipping levels 1 to 7. 121,500 + 96,000 = 217,500 gp. I'm using 1500 as base instead of 1000 because that's the number pages of spell knowledge use.

Feat: 5000 gp.

Total: 2000 gp + 217,500 gp + 5000 gp = 224,500 gp. Give it a 20% discount since you can't really control what spells/feats you get at a time = 179,600 gp. I'll round it up to 180,000 gp.

Rule 0 is everyone should have fun. At least thats my rule.

The more I think about it, the more this feels like a scaling magic item. Because the effects that add spells do not add all of them at 1st level. You will have to have the ability to cast 9th level spells (so around caster level 17) to get the most out of this item.

I'm not sure where to begin. This is a complex magic item.

First off, who is the intended user for this item? Its not as powerful if its a Paladin grabs it instead of a Wizard.

Part 1 seems to replace spells. This part doesn't rely on luck.
-Replace Summon Monster spells with Summon Nature's Ally spells.
-Replace polymorph spells with Fey Form spells.

Now the next part. You flip a coin and get one of 2 effects.

If heads, you roll a d6 and the result will give you a bundle of 9 spells, 1 for each spell level. Lasts for a day.

If tails, you get the Fey Obedience feat. You get a random deity, and must do a ritual to gain powers. There are 9 fey deities, so I'd handle this by rolling a d10. The 10th result I'd let the player choose which deity they get. Lasts for a day.

Then ioun stones that grant a feat are 8,000-10,000 gp

Ioun stones are slotless items, so their prices are doubled. Feats are worth about 5000 gp.

I remembered another trick. False focus.

Blood money messes with many spells. So does some mythic rules. I'm not sure if there is anything else.

Should we design this spell taking these tricks into account, or assume they don't exist?

Back in dnd 3.5, it was an 8th level spell, and you spent xp to make the item real. Pathfinder doesn't spend xp on spells or magic items like dnd 3.5 did, so you will probably need a substitute. The wish spell now uses a diamond 5 times the cost of the xp used (25000 gp instead of 5000 xp), so I'm thinking you should use diamond dust and have the spell will only use what is needed.

However, wish no longer can create items like it did in dnd 3.5, so maybe this spell shouldn't exist...

Here is a copy of the spell used in dnd 3.5. There are several different versions of this spell. You'll find links to them at the bottom of the page. However, the only detail that I think matters is the xp cost, which is either 1 xp per gp, or half that but with a higher minimum (50 xp instead of 1 xp).

https://dndtools.net/spells/spell-compendium--86/true-creation--4320/

It annoyed me that it was a domain only spell. Was not an option for wizards.

Magic items are rare while wealth is quite abundant, hence why the buy and sell prices are so different. If you don't like it, maybe change the setting to one where magic items are more common and raise the base value.

There is a 75% chance that any item of that value or lower can be found for sale with little effort in that community.

Emphasis mine.

So for a little effort, PCs can probably find magic items of priced around or less than the base value. Logically, with a bit more effort, PCs might be able to find more expensive magic items. Whether or not a town has such items can be an adventure on to itself.

Thank you.

I'm getting no hits on AoN for Kaer Maga. I assume its a town or something. In which book and page number can we find details on this town?

zza ni wrote:

UMDing a scroll is a thing.

I think Limited Wish's ability to 'Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools' is the 'normal' way to cast a Magic Fang and make it permanent...

Its an awfully expensive way to cast magic fang don't you think? Animate objects would be worse as you will need to use wish to cast it.

I agree that permanency does says "You first cast the desired spell...", but I think it makes more sense to allow permanency to work on other casters spells.

You know what, you guys are right. Balance wise you shouldn't get to use the symbol spells offensively.

Since my last post, I was thinking that it this was going to be an awfully convenient spell. Its cheap; cheaper than its equivalent magic item. It would have a better spell DC than a magic item. And it wouldn't need an item creation feat; just the spell itself and the spell permanency.

I don't know. The spell does not mention that it can be used that way, so I'm inclined to say no.

However, I do know that there are spells that can be placed on creatures. Typically, the spell wears off in a month though.

Example:
https://www.aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Arcane%20Mark

I suppose you could have it as a tattoo instead though. Those things last.

The permanency spell can render certain spells permanent. The cost is usually 2500 gp per spell level. It also requires a caster level of at least 8 + spell level. 0th level spells count as level 1 spells for this effect. Many symbol spells are listed as examples.

I suppose the surface could be a piece of paper, stone tablet, or something else. Buy it a cover and you're set. That way you don't need to wear a glove all the time.

Spell Resistance is a double edged sword. Not only does it try to protect you from hostile magic, but it also tries to protect you from friendly magic too.

More feats? Why couldn't a fighter get 2 feats per level?

I don't like some of the fcb selection in the official material. Some racial options are clearly better than others. So I let players pick whatever they want so long as it seemed appropriate to the class. Additional spells as a sorcerer or oracle is definitely a plus.

My reading is the magic item allows you cast 1 spell per level per day in a dead magic zone. These are counted towards your daily limit.

Any spells beyond that will make you fatigued, or exhausted if you were fatigued at the time of casting. If exhausted, you can't cast spells using this magic item. In addition, you need to make a concentration check or the extra spells fizzles.

Nothing in the description says the spells cast using this magic item are modified. So I assume that a fireball or haste will work normally under these circumstances.

It should be noted that this magic item is moderately expensive, so the character would be mid to high level to be able afford this item.

@Senko
Do you still want to work on this spell?

Well, the desired spell could be a mix of augury (cleric 2) and scrying (wizard 4). Augury can predict good or bad things half an hour into the future. Scrying can find someone anywhere, even other planes, and spy on them. So maybe the spell you are looking to create could be 5th level.

Scrying can be used to get you a destination good enough that you can use teleport to reach. Seen once is on target if you roll 1-76 on a d100. So maybe this new spell can do the same, and let you try to teleport to someone monitored by this spell.

Perhaps the spell can track the well being of 1 creature per caster level. A duration of 24 hours is a good minimum I think.

Well, I'm going to think it over if there is anything I want to add, remove, or change.