Reksew_Trebla |
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Even lap dogs (which use the statistics of foxes) have a Cha of 6, yet people ooh and aah over dogs all the time irl. Yeah, they may not be intelligent like humans, but they have very agreeable personalities. That’s why they are known as “man’s best friend”.
I mean, for example, I personally have literally chosen dogs as Animal Companions before despite having better options, because of how likable they are. I even chose a lap dog as a Familiar once.
Just flabbergasts me that Paizo made that choice.
SheepishEidolon |
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Well, it's kind of subjective how pleasant dogs actually are. Some people consider them awkward because they drool, lick, smell, bark and follow around even if the person wants their peace.
But Cha is more than about being agreeable anyway:
Charisma measures a character’s personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance.
At least in my book an average dog has a flatter personality, less personal magnetism and much less capability to lead humans than an average human. Appearance is subjective, won't judge that one.
Lynceus |
The Charisma scores of creatures are assigned in a arbitrary way, because Charisma doesn't just have one meaning. In addition to being your force of personality, it can reflect how attractive you are, how charming you are, how terrifying you are (see: Undead creatures in general), and, most importantly, how well you communicate and work well with others.
The ability to work with a group should not be underestimated, and is one of the reasons we (humanity) have gotten as far as we have, Now this all does lead to some odd situations, as has been noted in the past, like how Dwarves, a race that is noted for it's ability to work together in an organized fashion, have an average Charisma of about 8, while a Tyrannosaurus has a Charisma of 10...
Well maybe that does make sense, depending on who you ask T-Rexes are scary and/or cool, and Dwarves are just grubby dirt farmers, lol.
Scott Wilhelm |
Do you ever listen to what a dog says? I mean really listen: and take your dog's opinion seriously.
Do you ever follow a dog's orders? The answer to that is sometimes: when a dog is really emphatically making its point like when it's defending its property or if an aid dog approaches you in its harness with no master, barking at you and backing in a certain direction, asking you for help? You don't obey those dogs because of Charisma: those dogs have a Circumstance Bonus.
There are your Lassies and Benjis, and when you find a dog that charismatic, you make it into a movie star.
Did you notice that a dog's pronoun is "it?" Personally, I don't even think of dogs sexually. And every female dog I ever met is a total b!%*&.
Mark Hoover 330 |
Y'know, this might also have something to do with this being the Cha score of a dog in relation to PCs. Dogs are highly social animals that travel in packs. It might be that the standard dog has a Cha of 10-12 in relation to OTHER dogs, but when attempting to communicate with PCs it has a 6.
Now, if you gave a dog limited speech and the ability to, say, wear disguises and solve mysteries...
Mudfoot |
Yet somehow, cats get a Cha of 7, despite being almost entirely unable to exert any force of will on anything. They don't have the facial muscles or variety of voice to emotionally affect humans like dogs d and they're antisocial loners to whom leadership is an alien concept.
A cat doesn't respond to any stimulus bar food or sex, like an ooze. AoN lists them under Equipment. Like a backpack or a bottle of oil. That's a Charisma of -.
Sysryke |
Yet somehow, cats get a Cha of 7, despite being almost entirely unable to exert any force of will on anything. They don't have the facial muscles or variety of voice to emotionally affect humans like dogs d and they're antisocial loners to whom leadership is an alien concept.
A cat doesn't respond to any stimulus bar food or sex, like an ooze. AoN lists them under Equipment. Like a backpack or a bottle of oil. That's a Charisma of -.
I hate to disagree, but as an all animals lover, I feel compelled to point out that your arguments are subjective.
The culture of ancient Egypt would beg to differ with you.
The various vocalizations of cats around the world would as well. "Meow" is not in fact the sound a cat makes everywhere.
Also, many people succumb to the power of the purr. Not to mention headbutts, twinning, and kneading. The expressions may differ, but in their own ways cats are just as communicative. How much this affects an individual will vary from person to person. Charisma not being exclusive to leadership, I'd also say their can be great forceful weight behind the disgusted glare a cat can level at one who's displeased them.
Ultimately, Cha stats on all animals seem highly arbitrary. The menace of a rattlesnake, the cuteness of a bunny, the playfulness of a puppy, or the aura of extreme self-assurance of a cat; these all carry the weight of personality, and all have different strengths in different circumstances.
PossibleCabbage |
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Cats are capable of manipulating people (c.f. "local cat has never been fed in entire life, says local cat") it's just that they full stop hardly care what anybody else thinks. Like the only reason adult cats meow is "to manipulate humans."
Dogs are more social creatures so "approval/disapproval from peers" matters to them.
Mysterious Stranger |
People like dogs because they are loyal and obedient. They are easily trained and eager to please their masters. Even a kid can train one without too much effort. So in short they make great followers.
CHA is all about leadership, which is not a dog’s strong point. A creature with a high CHA score is going to end up dominating creatures around it. Sure dogs can get pushy when they want attention, but are quick to submit. When your dog’s rolls over and shows its belly that is the dog showing submission to you.
Cavall |
ErichAD |
I like dogs as much as anyone, but they are bottom tier negotiators who give you their entire life and key to their happiness for 2 meals and head pats, and have a tail that betrays their bluff checks. They also have difficulty with use magic device for anything activated by a means other than removing all the fluff.