I think that +2 unlisted buff would be the right call for everything except cantrip spell strikes. Maybe give magus class feats that give cantrip like spell strikes that scale less than actual cantrip damage + strikei dont see the math that backs this up as an issue. cantrips dont do much damage, they are basically daggers outside of TK wich is a shortsword.
nothing wrong with them having a good 2 action spell strike that requires melee range. but i could see them cutting cantrips damage in half when used in that way simply because of how i see them running the game currently.
What's an endgame dagger like? 4d4 plus like 3d6 of different property runes?
I guess I cantrip is pretty close to that with 9d4 or 10d4 max.
I just think adding that on MAP free would be a pretty no brainier choice for a lot of martials (who aren't fighter) compared to that more iffy second strike
so would 5d6 sneak attack damage, but thats now how sneak attack works via multiclass :), you get 1d6, with a feat, at best.
so would 5d6 sneak attack damage, but thats now how sneak attack works via multiclass :), you get 1d6, with a feat, at best.I think that +2 unlisted buff would be the right call for everything except cantrip spell strikes. Maybe give magus class feats that give cantrip like spell strikes that scale less than actual cantrip damage + strikei dont see the math that backs this up as an issue. cantrips dont do much damage, they are basically daggers outside of TK wich is a shortsword.
nothing wrong with them having a good 2 action spell strike that requires melee range. but i could see them cutting cantrips damage in half when used in that way simply because of how i see them running the game currently.
What's an endgame dagger like? 4d4 plus like 3d6 of different property runes?
I guess I cantrip is pretty close to that with 9d4 or 10d4 max.
I just think adding that on MAP free would be a pretty no brainier choice for a lot of martials (who aren't fighter) compared to that more iffy second strike
I'm just thinking a cantrip spell strike shouldn't be much more damage than two attacks landing of another martial class. The benefit should be more so energy damage and cantrip riders than nova damage on something that's infinitely repeatable during an adventuring day.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Give the magus accuracy enhancers that are contingent on "doing something" and not just automatic like proficiency, IMO.
There is no reason to believe that Spellstrike would allow a full cantrips damage when multiclassing.
Also I would really like for Magus to be able to hold the charge without spending focus points. Even if its just 1 round, being able to get that extra chance to land the spell via an AoO or another strike on the next turn would be great.
Yea either not wasting the slot or getting a +2 bonus when spell striking so you have the same odds of hitting as a martial would be ideal
A magus shouldn't have to hedge his bets on true strike
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Their is also room for the magus enchanting his weapons or adding runes etc.
I'd honestly like to see a magus where I get to pick my spells, divine, occult, primal, or arcane...
I think as we've seen with the witch, the broader brush required to access all traditions reduces both flavor and mechanics for the class as a whole. So I hope it's just spontaneous arcane or whatever, but then balanced strongly against the tradition it does select.
I mean, I hope magus ends up being a similar idea and not another concept bucket. If they try to fulfill all the possible gish concepts at once, it's gonna do a poor job of each. That's my thought.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would personally like it to get class paths akin to the "tomes" of Legendary Magus (which I feel is a lot better designed than original magus). Basically different styles for different weapons. Maybe stances, even, for that.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Also, an idea that was brought up by AnimatedPaper a couple months back and I want to mention again, is that it would be cool if Magus got access to new variations of Spellstrike via feats in the same way that Swashbuckler can get new finishers. It opens up the design space a lot and would allow for more variety over just "Spellstrike Shocking Grasp" over and over.
Also, an idea that was brought up by AnimatedPaper a couple months back and I want to mention again, is that it would be cool if Magus got access to new variations of Spellstrike via feats in the same way that Swashbuckler can get new finishers. It opens up the design space a lot and would allow for more variety over just "Spellstrike Shocking Grasp" over and over.
Was this common? This wasn't even remotely the best way to play the Magus IMO.
They were still kings of SoS/BFC because they could punish their enemies in close quarters while doing it. I mean sure, SG was used, but honestly, it wasn't even my ideal turn greater than 50% of the time.
And I've played (not even counting GM) about 10 different variations of the Class, a good amount of them even in Paizo APs.
Chill Touch was honestly better on the Magus that got less spells anyways for the longevity (if you weren't using Arcane Mark) until you got to level 3. SG is solid, but honestly, if you had anyone else dealing damage in the party you really didn't have to go that route (especially if you had a +1 weapon at that point).
The best part about SG was the bonus against armor, but I digress.
I severely hope that the plans of the Magus don't revolve around Spellstrike at all, as it was a Core mechanic but not at all central to their themes.
Variations on Spellstrike could be a way to go, but only if Spellstrike is in name alone.
I'd much rather see a physical act of different kinds be the application of the magic. Whether that be a Trip, Tumble, Strike, or even Thievery (please god, a Spellthief/Sandman version in the Magus and I might explode).
Side Note: I'd really like to see the class get Class paths that define their progression (I.E. Proficiency with martial/spells), as that was a core concept of the original Magus (varying levels of Magic vs. Martial)
Also, an idea that was brought up by AnimatedPaper a couple months back and I want to mention again, is that it would be cool if Magus got access to new variations of Spellstrike via feats in the same way that Swashbuckler can get new finishers. It opens up the design space a lot and would allow for more variety over just "Spellstrike Shocking Grasp" over and over.Was this common? This wasn't even remotely the best way to play the Magus IMO.
They were still kings of SoS/BFC because they could punish their enemies in close quarters while doing it. I mean sure, SG was used, but honestly, it wasn't even my ideal turn greater than 50% of the time.
I've never played PF1, but every time I've ever seen Magus come up in conversation someone brings up Shocking Grasp. So it seemed like it was fairly common.
@Sporkedup Spontaneous Magus is an Eldritch Scion, which is Cha based. Those Magus get access to Sorcerer Bloodlines, temporarily by spending arcane points.
To be fair, PF1 had an absurd amount of build archetypes per class. I'd expect that many of them are compiled or heavily modified, so the Eldritch Scion as it was might not be a template at all for going forward.
I guess I'm more worried that both the magus and the summoner will end up any-tradition, when it seems that the most effective spellcasters are all focused on a particular tradition and concept. But that might just be me. Sorcerers and witches don't feel particularly beefy, at least at my tables. The others seem more effective. So I'm just hoping as many upcoming casting classes as possible are single tradition.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've never played PF1, but every time I've ever seen Magus come up in conversation someone brings up Shocking Grasp. So it seemed like it was fairly common.Also, an idea that was brought up by AnimatedPaper a couple months back and I want to mention again, is that it would be cool if Magus got access to new variations of Spellstrike via feats in the same way that Swashbuckler can get new finishers. It opens up the design space a lot and would allow for more variety over just "Spellstrike Shocking Grasp" over and over.Was this common? This wasn't even remotely the best way to play the Magus IMO.
They were still kings of SoS/BFC because they could punish their enemies in close quarters while doing it. I mean sure, SG was used, but honestly, it wasn't even my ideal turn greater than 50% of the time.
I would say it was about as common as a Barbarian that wielded a Greataxe and exclusively Charged.
I mean sure it happened, but more often than not (especially at higher levels) it was just the most "obvious" thing they could do. Like when you read Spellstrike, the first thing a theorycrafter does is go "what's the best spell I can do this with when I get it?", which inevitably ends up being SG (if perfect circumstances).
The truth is though, being able to cast Grease/Colorspray was a far more effective use of your action 9/10.
Now whether that's because SoS/BFC was too strong, that's pretty much a certainty that it was, but also that people that found the SG part of the Magus appealing were more than likely martial players that decided to try the Magus than a person that chose a Magus because of the kit.
I digress though. SG was fine, but IMO if that was the choice you made turn after turn, then you weren't really playing a Magus so much as you were playing a martial that happened to have spellstrike.
I would really like to see Spellstrike being defined by the class path as opposed to necessarily just being "you strike and cast a spell". Striking and casting a spell can be the "Tumble Through"-> Swashbuckler of the Magus, but I sure hope it's not a must for the concept.
Arcana and Arcane Pool were much cooler sets of mechanics for the themes IMO, and some of the archetypes had real mustard (albeit, some were just mechanically inferior) in terms of concepts.
Especially now that we know that the plan is to give the Magus less spells per day, I am pretty curious about what spell strike is going to look like. You will only have 1 or 2 highest level spell slots at each level. Using low level damage spells is generally considered to be a waste of actions, but those were a mainstay of past magus builds. It does seem like the magus is going to be stuck with either cantrips or else having to spend many rounds of combat a day making martial strikes.
Especially now that we know that the plan is to give the Magus less spells per day, I am pretty curious about what spell strike is going to look like.
How do we know this? I must have missed where this was said.
I know that if there wasn't an explicit "no half-casters" in the current system, I would have expected them to be the same number of spells as the maximum but only up to 5th level spells (perhaps some kind of "double the spell level for the purposes of counter-act" staple on).
If they are to be a full-caster, they will certainly need some kind of supplemental Focus spell early or some other magic-martial supplement (more than likely Arcane Pool is going to fill this niche).
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
We dont know what the "limited casting" is as far as I know. Has that been revealed?
Nope. I think Jason called them "ninth level casters" but that's the extent of what we know.
I hope magus has the capability of moving in on the hexblade territory. That seems to be what virtually 2/3 of the 5e community want to play period, and Pathfinder currently has no reasonable analog at all. Cross fingers.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Both Magus and Summoner will have up to 9th level slots but fewer spell slots than other casters. What this is exactly hasn't been revealed, but the most likely scenario imo is that they get two slots per level.
I hope magus has the capability of moving in on the hexblade territory. That seems to be what virtually 2/3 of the 5e community want to play period, and Pathfinder currently has no reasonable analog at all. Cross fingers.
I am of the opinion that 5E hexblades are overpowered. Source: I DMed Tomb of Annihilation for 2 years and one of my players had a Hexblades/Paladin multiclass. Also I have a Tier 3 way of shadow monk character that splashed in a level of Hexblade Warlock, despite only having the minimum 13 Cha. The benefits are that good, IMO.
So... I am hoping for a balanced class. If we get something a la the 5E Hexblade Warlock, I would call that a failure.
Both Magus and Summoner will have up to 9th level slots but fewer spell slots than other casters. What this is exactly hasn't been revealed, but the most likely scenario imo is that they get two slots per level.
Just to clarify, they don’t get 10th level slots?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Both Magus and Summoner will have up to 9th level slots but fewer spell slots than other casters. What this is exactly hasn't been revealed, but the most likely scenario imo is that they get two slots per level.Just to clarify, they don’t get 10th level slots?
That is the current understanding of the community, based on what has been said. We'll find out next month when the Playtest drops.
That is the current understanding of the community, based on what has been said. We'll find out next month when the Playtest drops.Both Magus and Summoner will have up to 9th level slots but fewer spell slots than other casters. What this is exactly hasn't been revealed, but the most likely scenario imo is that they get two slots per level.Just to clarify, they don’t get 10th level slots?
So I'll point this out, though it could mean nothing:
The Spellcasting Archetypes do not grant 10th level spells, only the Spellclasses themselves actually grant 10th and it's via a means of something often Class specific (Sorcerer's it's bloodlines, Wizard's just get one).
A free Archetype of progression towards spellcasting?
For Magus that could be Arcane List, for others it could be one of the other 3 (Primal = Hunter, Occultist = Occult, Divine = Inquisitor)
EDIT: Forgot you don't get 9th on the archetypes either though. I guess maybe "they don't get 10th level slots" could just mean by default since there seems to be contingencies for some of them.
Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
For Magus to get "less spells than other casters" could just mean it gets the baseline amount, with no means of adding or increasing the number.
For Magus to get "less spells than other casters" could just mean it gets the baseline amount, with no means of adding or increasing the number.
Wouldn't that just mean it has the same number of spells as druid or bard?
For Magus to get "less spells than other casters" could just mean it gets the baseline amount, with no means of adding or increasing the number.Wouldn't that just mean it has the same number of spells as druid or bard?
They said less than druid. 2 slots a level seems a pretty safe assumption.
I hope magus has the capability of moving in on the hexblade territory. That seems to be what virtually 2/3 of the 5e community want to play period, and Pathfinder currently has no reasonable analog at all. Cross fingers.I am of the opinion that 5E hexblades are overpowered. Source: I DMed Tomb of Annihilation for 2 years and one of my players had a Hexblades/Paladin multiclass. Also I have a Tier 3 way of shadow monk character that splashed in a level of Hexblade Warlock, despite only having the minimum 13 Cha. The benefits are that good, IMO.
So... I am hoping for a balanced class. If we get something a la the 5E Hexblade Warlock, I would call that a failure.
Oh, agreed. I don't mean the balance of the class.
But we are definitely lacking a good smite-dumper, aside from a mechanically complicated harm-font warpriest. 5e hexblades and paladins (especially since they're always multiclassed into a pile of cheese) are much more versatile and able to be built around. I personally would prefer a much lighter ability to cast but a much more capable system of smite-style martial abilities. But we'll see.
They said less than druid. 2 slots a level seems a pretty safe assumption.For Magus to get "less spells than other casters" could just mean it gets the baseline amount, with no means of adding or increasing the number.Wouldn't that just mean it has the same number of spells as druid or bard?
Which probably means only one at the new spell level when your character hits an odd level and then a second at every even. That means, at best , a magus is going to have 4 combat tier spell slots to use per day. Unless they get a mechanic very similar to the eldritch archer that can utilize their cantrips to add damage to a sword attack, their spell combat is going to be pretty limited. As much as I have been arguing against giving them master proficiency in weapons, if they go weapon first, and can use their weapon attack for spell attack rolls like the archer, then maybe master weapons and Expert casting makes sense. If it took 2 or maybe all 3 actions, and was still dependent upon the weapon attack roll, it shouldn't overpower the damage output of any other martial. This would actually incentivize them away from Saving throw based spells and towards attack roll damage spells which I think makes a fair bit of sense and protects the caster/martial MC build as being something pretty different.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Which probably means only one at the new spell level when your character hits an odd level and then a second at every even. That means, at best , a magus is going to have 4 combat tier spell slots to use per day. Unless they get a mechanic very similar to the eldritch archer that can utilize their cantrips to add damage to a sword attack, their spell combat is going to be pretty limited. As much as I have been arguing against giving them master proficiency in weapons, if they go weapon first, and can use their weapon attack for spell attack rolls like the archer, then maybe master weapons and Expert casting makes sense. If it took 2 or maybe all 3 actions, and was still dependent upon the weapon attack roll, it shouldn't overpower the damage output of any other martial. This would actually incentivize them away from Saving throw based spells and towards attack roll damage spells which I think makes a fair bit of sense and protects the caster/martial MC build as being something pretty different.They said less than druid. 2 slots a level seems a pretty safe assumption.For Magus to get "less spells than other casters" could just mean it gets the baseline amount, with no means of adding or increasing the number.Wouldn't that just mean it has the same number of spells as druid or bard?
There's no reason to leave them with expert casting though. Literally every class gets master in class DC/spell DC. And multiclassing gets master in spell DC.
There's no gain in class power budget by doing that, and it just unnecessarily limits play styles (for no gain)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I increasingly suspect the core of the chassis will be:
HP: 8 / level
Perception: Trained
Saves: Will Expert or Will & Fort Expert
Skills: Arcana & 2 per Int
Weapons: Trained in Simple and Martial Weapons
Armor: Trained in Light and Medium
SPELLS: Trained in arcane spell attacks & Trained in arcane spell DCs
Now for less obvious guesses:
Key Ability = Str or Dex*
Spells: Arcane, prepared, spellbook based like Wizard.
3 Cantrips per day, 1 spell per/day when gaining spell level, 2/day for all others.
SpellStrike >> version of eldritch archer which restricts it to melee attacks and requires a free hand*.
*This means that you add cantrips to your attack a lot, and it works out in or around martial damage. But when you spend your very limited spell slots on spell level attack spells you do a very large burst of damage, but don't have a lot of spare spell slots for utility if doing so. Two handed weapons would make this impossible, not having Int as Key ability means your simply not as good at Save DC spells.
You would increase spell proficiency one level before the spellcasting archetypes, and weapon proficiency at probably the normal martial rate.
The burst may be a little high, etc, so I'm sure the rules will tighten up, but I'm guessing that's the starting point in the playtest.
Which probably means only one at the new spell level when your character hits an odd level and then a second at every even. That means, at best , a magus is going to have 4 combat tier spell slots to use per day. Unless they get a mechanic very similar to the eldritch archer that can utilize their cantrips to add damage to a sword attack, their spell combat is going to be pretty limited. As much as I have been arguing against giving them master proficiency in weapons, if they go weapon first, and can use their weapon attack for spell attack rolls like the archer, then maybe master weapons and Expert casting makes sense. If it took 2 or maybe all 3 actions, and was still dependent upon the weapon attack roll, it shouldn't overpower the damage output of any other martial. This would actually incentivize them away from Saving throw based spells and towards attack roll damage spells which I think makes a fair bit of sense and protects the caster/martial MC build as being something pretty different.They said less than druid. 2 slots a level seems a pretty safe assumption.For Magus to get "less spells than other casters" could just mean it gets the baseline amount, with no means of adding or increasing the number.Wouldn't that just mean it has the same number of spells as druid or bard?There's no reason to leave them with expert casting though. Literally every class gets master in class DC/spell DC. And multiclassing gets master in spell DC.
There's no gain in class power budget by doing that, and it just unnecessarily limits play styles (for no gain)
The damage add on of even just getting to tack on a cantrip's spell damage to your regular first strike of the round is pretty massive by the levels where top proficiencies are in discussion. Unless the activity takes all 3 of your actions, it is going to completely overwhelm what any kind of multiclass caster is going to be able to accomplish. Because the Magus spell list is going to be the same as a every other arcane caster, giving them up to the same proficiency level as what a MC caster can do, with more spells per day at faster access makes all other versions of the martial/caster inferior. Requiring them to make weapon attacks to land offensive spell effects is the only way I can see the Magus having unique design space and have master level martial weapon proficiency. Something has to give.
Here's a magus with master/master prof casting electric arc against one target and striking once with a longsword compared to a caster doing the same. Better by a small amount, and using a real spell instead of a cantrip would put that in the casters favor.The damage add on of even just getting to tack on a cantrip's spell damage to your regular first strike of the round is pretty massive by the levels where top proficiencies are in discussion. Unless the activity takes all 3 of your actions, it is going to completely overwhelm what any kind of...Which probably means only one at the new spell level when your character hits an odd level and then a second at every even. That means, at best , a magus is going to have 4 combat tier spell slots to use per day. Unless they get a mechanic very similar to the eldritch archer that can utilize their cantrips to add damage to a sword attack, their spell combat is going to be pretty limited. As much as I have been arguing against giving them master proficiency in weapons, if they go weapon first, and can use their weapon attack for spell attack rolls like the archer, then maybe master weapons and Expert casting makes sense. If it took 2 or maybe all 3 actions, and was still dependent upon the weapon attack roll, it shouldn't overpower the damage output of any other martial. This would actually incentivize them away from Saving throw based spells and towards attack roll damage spells which I think makes a fair bit of sense and protects the caster/martial MC build as being something pretty different.They said less than druid. 2 slots a level seems a pretty safe assumption.For Magus to get "less spells than other casters" could just mean it gets the baseline amount, with no means of adding or increasing the number.Wouldn't that just mean it has the same number of spells as druid or bard?There's no reason to leave them with expert casting though. Literally every class gets master in class DC/spell DC. And multiclassing gets master in spell DC.
There's no gain in class power budget by doing that, and it just unnecessarily limits play styles (for no gain)
Unless the activity takes all 3 of your actions, it is going to completely overwhelm what any kind of multiclass caster is going to be able to accomplish. Because the Magus spell list is going to be the same as a every other arcane caster, giving them up to the same proficiency level as what a MC caster can do, with more spells per day at faster access makes all other versions of the martial/caster inferior
You keep claiming that, but it ignores the base abilities of both casters and martial classes. Martials will have better armor, weapon (yes, even with Master weapon proficiency), and save proficiencies, plus better HP (except Rogues, who will have better skills). If the Magus key ability is not Int, then Martials will likely have better initial skills, though that would mean only Fighters have the better to hit rate after all. Casters will have more casting, up to double, warpriests and warrior bards included. And we have no idea what feats the Magus will have access to; if most of them revolve around spell striking, there will be quite a few attractive feats on other class's lists that a Magus might envy.
Multiclass dedications will have the design space of adding a little of the other class to your character, including the feats of a specific class. A gish will be for when you want to split the difference evenly. I don't really see the issue with a Magus getting the same number of slots as an MC character, just at a lower level, because that's kind of the point. MC by design only gives you the benefits of a character half your actual character level; saying you can't have a design that invalidates a deliberately limited threshold is a little restrictive.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm not going to lie, I really hope there's something more creative than a slightly more integrated mashup of a Fighter MCD Wizard + Spellstrike.
Cantrips + Attacks aren't even inherently better than just swinging twice.
This edition changed a lot for the Magus, so I would expect that the Magus needs to change a lot to justify its uniqueness:
- Spellcombat is already possible, you have 3 actions
- Armor no longer reduces effectiveness of casting, so no longer a main feature
- Damage of spells is now directly correlated to the Slot and not the level. This was a SIGNIFICANT change to how the Magus would play in terms of their main schtick for damage, as their damage spells scaled even though their spell progression was slower. 2E does not really have an equivalent here with the exception of Cantrips and Focus Spells auto-scaling in level
This leads me to believe there will likely be a first level focus spell (potentially based on their Class Path/Chosen Whatever) that is their "main damage" with the "cantrip" option being the default.
Lots of low level spells was sort of their thing. They were a flurry of lower level magic and martial prowess combined. Now by the sound of it with max level spells but less amount, I struggle to see how the old "style" is going to come through.
I would have thought this was a matter of an appropriate "blending" of the two to make something strong, but it seems like a "do this half as much as the main version of the class for the respective portion".
If the Magus ends up being primarily martial due to lack of spell usage, I'm going to be massively disappointed. I was casting spells pretty much every single turn past level 1 (if you count Chill Touch).
And if I'm going to be casting cantrips > 40% of the time out with just a plain old strike + spell Spellstrike, that's a feelsbadman.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
If the Magus ends up being primarily martial due to lack of spell usage, I'm going to be massively disappointed. I was casting spells pretty much every single turn past level 1 (if you count Chill Touch).
Off the top of my head, I can't recall a spell that works the same way that Chill Touch did, with multiple strikes spread across several rounds. So that's a potential area for a Magus focus spell.
If the Magus ends up being primarily martial due to lack of spell usage, I'm going to be massively disappointed. I was casting spells pretty much every single turn past level 1 (if you count Chill Touch).Off the top of my head, I can't recall a spell that works the same way that Chill Touch did, with multiple strikes spread across several rounds. So that's a potential area for a Magus focus spell.
It had a special place in my heart, especially when I was playing the AP Haunting of Harrowstone. Rayne Fallenn was her name and she was my first Magus actually! She used Chill Touch so much in that AP (and not going to lie the "two for one" on strikes was super baller).
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah, I'm hopeful they'll get creative.
I don't mind cantrips replacing the majority of the shocking grasp type spell combat routines. That frees up the rest of their spell slots for more utility and wizardy stuff that a magus is not a magus without. If they end up just elemental damage melee characters, then I'll be scrubbing the name Magus from the class.
If they fall below Master spellcasting, and as a result can't land any ranged offensive spells, that's also a no-go.
I honestly don't know if focus spells need to be a thing for the class, but if they are I could see them doing something like boosting a low level spell to high level effectiveness. This could give them slightly more use out of their lower level spell slots.
Yeah, I'm hopeful they'll get creative.
I don't mind cantrips replacing the majority of the shocking grasp type spell combat routines.
Totally okay with this. It's fine as the "I have limited options, I'm going to do this", but the action efficiency of casting a spell in combination with a Strike is going to be a tough beat if that's the only action economy increase.
So yeah, totally fine with this replacing SG/Chill Touch Combo, but then I hope there's still strong incentives to cast actual spells.
if they are I could see them doing something like boosting a low level spell to high level effectiveness. This could give them slightly more use out of their lower level spell slots.
I don't hate that, though I'd have to think it'd get used on Damage spells 9/10 (and probably should be restricted to that).
Super fine for someone having the option to lean into the "my magic weapon is going to ruin your day", as long as it isn't basically required to make the Class "viable" in a combat situation.
I'm also really wondering how they're going to handle the Class/Spell DC situation, since this would be the first Class that effectively has both, and IMO, should be based on different ability scores.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm also really wondering how they're going to handle the Class/Spell DC situation, since this would be the first Class that effectively has both, and IMO, should be based on different ability scores.
Again, though they're not true spellcasters, champion and monk already have this. They have a class DC based on strength/dexterity, and a spell save DC based on charisma/wisdom.
A thing about the "they have the whole arcane list" maybe they could do something like 5e's Eldritch Knight, where they get the wizard's list, but they only get spells from X schools. 1e Magus had a "feat" (I forget their class specific ability pool name) that let them take spells from a wizard's book, as long as they were from a list of X schools. I'm not saying they should hard gate the mags to only even cast spells from an exclusive list of schools, but maybe they get 2 spell slots that can be of any school, and 1 bonus slot per level that can only be evo/trans/abjur or something like that. That's just my idea I'm throwing in on the whole "fix the spell starving" thing that might crop up, also Focus Spells to give runes on the weapon, because that'd be awesome and true to their OG ability. If they're a spont-arcane, they could carry over the Blade Adept Arcanist and also make them neo-vancian? This part is just me wanting neo-vancian back because I miss it so much and will find any excuse to being it back
They only got 4 schools in PF1. Which is another big change to the Magus.
The Arcane List is one of the largest lists, so if they did get the Arcane list they would be nearly 2x the number of available spells unless those spells were restricted by school/trait.
It's a pretty tough conversion of a Class to be honest, because the 6 casters in PF1 (3.5 Bard) were basically "perfect for the system". It was a match made in heaven because of how the systems allows a 6th level caster to basically succeed due to scaling level on spells, limiting spell lists per class, and action economy fixes.
Action economy fixes in PF2 are a breeze, they basically write themselves.
The limited spell lists has been done by the Red Mantis Assassin, but not to a full caster and the scaling spells is a notable hurdle to the 6th level caster design of "scaling character level makes damage spells still matter". The departure from damage contingent on character level and SoS/BFC spells Incapacitation.
If they were limiting it based on schools, I would have expected the per day number to remain consistent (doesn't sound like it's the case).
They only got 4 schools in PF1. Which is another big change to the Magus.
At release like? Because the Magus spell list definitely has more than 4 schools in PF1 when it was wrapped up.
They only got 4 schools in PF1. Which is another big change to the Magus.At release like? Because the Magus spell list definitely has more than 4 schools in PF1 when it was wrapped up.
They got their own spell list, but for the most part they did not get the Enchantment schools, the summoning spells, most complex utility spells, and various other things. Presumably, if they got the Arcane List, those would all be on the table.
The staples were Illusion, Evocation, Abjuration, Transmutation with some of the other 3 peppered in (ironically, Chill Touch was one of the rather seldom Necromancy spells I believe). They got the Conjuration (creation) spells usually as well.
So "4 schools" wasn't accurate, but "a specific subset of spells that were sort of decided on a case by case basis and certain markers with the occasional Magus-only spell, which boiled down to about 'half' the Arcane list" would be pretty close IMO.