Bard

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Goblin Squad Member. RPG Superstar 9 Season Star Voter. Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber. * Pathfinder Society GM. 1,079 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 24 Organized Play characters.


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Zwordsman wrote:
last I heard folks weren't sure how that worked or said it wasn't useful. Did something alter or did I just mishear?

I suspect that's the second part of my comment that I ninja'd you with: Telekenetic Projectile says it's a Ranged attack (instead of a Spell attack). Some people think that means you use Dex instead of your spellcasting stat. I personally don't, but it's a thing that should get cleared up.

Edit: Ninja'd! How very meta.


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Ravingdork wrote:
Never saw it as so powerful that it was worth taking over telekinetic projectile.

That's not on the Primal list, if you're a druid or Fey sorcerer.

Also, did they ever clarify that Telekenetic Projectile was a spell attack? I mean, it's got to be; it just needs some cleanup errata.


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Staffan Johansson wrote:
Oddball idea if you want to make it less of a must-have: remove "1 or" from the Targets line. If you need two targets to use it, that would mean you need to mix it up with some other cantrips as well.

Or, you know, friendly fire.

Headcannon wrote:

Valeros: "Oww! Quit it, Ezren!"

Ezren: "If you don't want to get hit by lightning, maybe don't wave around your metal stick at the monster I'm trying to zap!"
Valeros: "You know, Seioni said the same thing last week, and I believed her, but now I'm starting to think you're both full of it..."


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It seems like it's a little bit overpowered to me; it's the obvious go-to attack cantrip, with all the others relegated to specific circumstances. To take it down a notch, I'd probably say that if you target 2 creatures, they need to be, i dunno, no more than 15 feet away from each other. As it's written, I believe you can have target A 30 feet in front of you and target B 30 feet behind you, and it still works.


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Heh, I asked this question at the end of the Playtest in the We Be Heroes? product page. For, uh, no reason...


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My PFS character has an animal companion: a Badger (so +2 Str). My thought process:
Young Animal Companion: Barding isn't worth the movement penalty.
Mature Animal Companion: 10 gp is not a lot of money at 4th level, sure I'll grab light barding.
Nimble/Savage: If I decide to go Nimble (and I'm leaning in that direction), I will no longer need barding, since Nimble companions get expert in Unarmored Defense. If I go savage, I'll then upgrade to Heavy Barding.


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burgus wrote:
This is very cool! Can you do this for Lini next? I wanted to play her with my party soon, but when I tested her in a solo play I wasn't so sure what she's actually good at and how I should use her mechanics. It also seems there aren't enough animal allies in core (except low level ones) and especially curse (which has almost only human allies) to make her a great choice. Please prove me wrong.

I've played Lini through the first 3 scenarios of the Core Set and she seems solid so far. I can't speak to further scenarios or Curse just yet, though I will say that the Riding Allosaurus loot ally is a guaranteed reasonable animal ally soon into Core.

As general strategies go, for most combat checks I end up recharging two animals: One for her power of Survival + 1d4, and another animal that adds a d4 to a combat or Survival check (Droogami, Bat, and Snake can all do this). Recharging the second animal for it's power also lets me shuffle them into my deck so I get them back sooner. A skill feat into Wisdom and a Power feat into +1d4 when a local check invokes the Animal trait are priority pickups, since Lini's combat power does invoke the Animal trait. A couple of attack spells are good to have for enemies weak to the Attack trait (such as swarms).
Lini's starting deck is fairly reasonable: the Hide Armor can help significantly with a Con or Fort check you need to make, the dagger is primarily there to help your Survival combat checks, and the Balmberry is a fine choice until you find something better, like the Gem of Mental Acuity.


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Krell44 wrote:

Thanks!

So if I understand this correctly:

For 10gp I can buy Light Barding to gain 1 AC, -1 Armor Check Penalty, - 5ft speed penalty, 2 bulk, and they need to have a +3 STR modifier to even wear it?

Seems an awful price to pay for 1 AC.

No. Just like regular armor, if you meet the strength requirement you don't take the armor check and speed penalties. You can wear the boarding without the STR, but then you do take those penalties.


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Klart McCather wrote:

Unravel Mysterious seems so situational and a waste of a feat choice. I could see GM's just handwave things like that.

Keep in mind that it's a Skill feat; it's not competing with Class feats. It still counts as a feat towards the Scrollmaster dedication, so if you're taking multiple dedications that's also a benefit. I agree that it seems like it will seldom come up, but that the case with many skill feats. And hey, if you are a Rogue, you are *swimming* in them.


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Wait, are we suggesting that you cast the Jump spell multiple times in consecutive actions (perhaps by using the heightened to 3rd level casting) to perform a video-game style double/triple jump?


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HammerJack wrote:
You mean only magical, if it's an animal companion, right? This whole thread started with how they can't use that +1 to hit.

I mean, *I* think that the +1 is balanced too, even though by RAW, Animal Companions don't get it. If Paizo clarifies that no really, the AC isn't intended to get that particular +1, then fine. But regardless, I think the spell should at least get another look by the team.


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K1 wrote:

Unless they become nimble/savage companions.

Then their attacks will be magical.
However, since the cleric spell does the same, I guess it should be obvious that magic fang would work on a companion, even if the rules say on a ally.
For some stuff this 2e really needs an errata asap.

Agree on Nimble/Savage, I mentioned that two posts up.

Magic fang works on a Young companion just fine. (Minus the issue about Item bonuses that started this thread, though I'm ignoring that as an oversight in games I run).


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ofMars wrote:


I think the first I do want to know where in the rules it says you can't jump over creatures, if you can somehow combine the long and high jump actions or whatever. This came up in a fight against Ghouls, who can jump half their move speed as a single action that doesn't provoke, and the GM had them leaping over characters and up on to a 10ft high roof, which made for a really cool dynamic combat but I'm not sure it was strictly correct by the rules.

I personally would allow the 5 feet to be interchangeable between vertical and horizontal movement, just because it makes it more fun, but still costs something, so for example you could clear a large creature, but you could only move 20 feet horizontally

Oh sure you can absolutely jump *over* monsters, but that means you aren't going horizontally the full 30 foot distance. I'd probably count the distance back down to ground in the 30 feet though; otherwise you'd fall from however high you jumped. But if you have Acrobatics and Cat Fall, you may not care.

Edit: To be clear, I'd find jumping over a Large enemy with the Jump spell to be fairly difficult if you want to get back on the ground without falling at the end. But jumping over Medium and smaller enemies should be pretty easy to do.


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ofMars wrote:
yeah, but that's the same problem with Magic Weapon. IMHO, I think both spells should be allowed to be Heightened

Not really. If your friend already has a +1 Striking longsword, you can't enchant it further, but it's magic. A full-grown companion's attacks cannot be enchanted, and they *aren't* magical. So against something that requires magic, you are hosed.


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Put me in the camp of Prepared Occult caster, with choice of patron adding non-Occult spells into the mix. Elements Patron for Fireball, Healing Patron for Heal, that sort of stuff. Hexes are either Cantrips or Focus Spells, ala Compositions.
I know some people are in for the Prepared Pick-A-List, but I don't think that's the Witch. You know what I think that should be?
The Arcanist.
Hear me out on this one: Much like Paladin is now what you call the LG Champion, the Arcanist is what you call the Prepared Pick-A-List that picked the Arcane list.


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A bit of thread necromancy here, but there's another problem with Magic Fang, as written. Or rather, its interaction with Animal Companions. It specifically targets an unarmed strike that does 1 die of damage, and makes it magical. Animal companions' attacks only become magical when they hit 3 dice (at Nimble/Savage). So for a full-grown companion, if you are fighting something that needs the attacks to come in as Magic, you are in a weird place where it would have been better for you to be Young, so your partner Druid could enchant those attacks.


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Doug Hahn wrote:
swoosh wrote:
In the same way that Stride is a single action 25' teleport that doesn't even require a spell slot.
Last I checked, you can’t stride at faster-than-normal speed over difficult terrain, onto rooftops, over pits, etc.

Trained (or better) in Athletics, Assurance(Athletics) and Quick Jump will almost get you there at higher levels.


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Doug Hahn wrote:

It’s not a 1:1 comparison to teleport, but its really, really, really good — better than most other first level spells, if tactical positioning is something you value (which you should in Pathfinder). Its not like AOO’s are common in PF2, anyway.

It seems like an editing error to me, but if this is the intended function of the spell, then that’s good to know.

I agree that it's a good spell. In fact, now that you've brought it to my attention I'll probably prepare it on my Druid once un-heightened Heal and/or Magic Fang become obsolete for him. But I believe the spell is correct as written. And if you really value battlefield mobility, the 3rd level heightening is *amazing*, even as a self-buff. For the cost of a one-action cast, you get a 30' "jump" speed that ignores many types of difficult terrain. Spring-attack, indeed.

As a total aside, another RPG system has an *actual* 30' teleport as a 2nd level spell with a low action cost, and also seems strong but balanced to me.


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I wrote a longer post, but the forum ate it. Maybe because you edited your post to mention the heightened version? To be clear, that ought to be a supported action, and it's the forum's fault. (Really, my fault for not copying the post to the clipboard before submitting it)

Anyway, Jump is balanced on costing a first level spell slot: these aren't as easy to come by as in PF1: even a high level caster will still only typically have 3 of these at the end of their career.

Jump is less good than teleporting in the following ways
*)You can't go through barriers, including enemy creatures' spaces
*)You can't use it to escape a grab or an immobilizing effect
*)You'll be subjected to an enemy's Attack of Opportunity reaction, if it has one

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I'm surprised that 1-02 The Mosquito Witch hasn't been mentioned. It can be run creepy, or if you think the audience would like it better, you can give it more of a Scooby-Doo vibe. Either way you do it, it's solidly thematic for Halloween, and my favorite PFS(2) full length scenario so far (though I have yet to play 1-05).

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NemoNoName wrote:


Personally, the fact they tied Armour proficiencies to Champion class is probably the worst specific design decision they made.
(and to be clear, I generally love the 2nd edition very, very much)

It is unfortunate that there isn't as good a way to do that for secular characters on day 1. I'd be surprised if there wasn't an archetype or other rules element that that let you do this in the APG next August. Of course, that doesn't help you right now.

1/5

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NemoNoName wrote:
Also, more specifically, Nethys couldn't work by default as the whole reason for taking the class is wearing Heavy Armour, which means using mundane means for protection instead of Arcane.

+1 Armor is a level 5 item that costs 160 gp. Sounds like a magical way of solving your problem to me.

Also: even if violating your dedication's Anathema won't technically lose class abilities based on what you quote, GMs might have a hard time reconciling your character's Champion dedication with his or her actions. And in my opinion, causing that friction with potentially every GM you play with really isn't worth it. Some GMs may not care at all, others may go so far as to warn your character that grossly violating your cause's alignment is worthy of Infamy.

Edit: note that Sorcerors do have focus pools, and by my reading, violating your anathema would take away your Sorceror focus pool, even if you didn't have any Champion focus abilities.


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larsenex wrote:

Thus a +1 striking (weapon) has no magical to hit but has extra die of damage.

Is this correct?

A +1 Striking weapon by definition has both types of runes. The "+1" is the potency rune.


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Nefreet wrote:
That's exactly what he does ^_^

Ahh, okay. The way you capitalized Quickdraw made it sound like an actual game feature, not a use of the Bandolier. Though now that I think about it the Rogue's quickdraw only works with weapons.


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Kerrilyn wrote:
* There's no take ten (I think? mog?)

That's correct. It's been replaced by Assurance, which is a skill feat that you need to take for skills individually and works a little differently (no bonuses or penalties at all, your result is 10 + your proficiency)


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Carog the Fat wrote:
yeah but by RAW for Society games I can just wiggle my fingers and heal my self

I wouldn't be surprised to find table variation on that one. Meaning, some GMs may agree with you, and others may not.


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Squiggit wrote:


Quivering palm is a focus spell and focus spells use the spellcaster's caster DC. So if you could theoretically get quivering palm as a wizard you'd be fine. Heck, the Wizard is better at using monk spells than monks, because their spell DC advances faster and eventually goes up to legendary while monks cap out at master.

I don't think that example works, since as a Monk you pick if your focus spells are Divine or Occult. So you could maybe be a Cleric of Irori, Bard, or Sorceror of an appropriate bloodline, but not a Wizard.


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Nefreet wrote:
Sidenote: my -2001 uses Battle Medicine in conjunction with Quickdraw to make the action economy not hurt so much.

Under the interpretation that Battle Medicine needs a Healer's tools (not weighting in on that one either way), you can just put the Healer's Tools in a Bandolier that you are wearing, and draw them as part of the Battle Medicine action.

Archives of Nethys wrote:
A bandolier can be dedicated to a full set of tools, such as healer’s tools, allowing you to draw the tools as part of the action that requires them.


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ErichAD wrote:
I'd look at the druid orders for clarity on the topic. Of the four abilities, four grant focus spells, 2 grant focus points. If you assume you only get the point if you are granted the point, then the wild druid and the animal druid can't use their spells. If you assume that the point is always granted when you get an ability that requires one, then three get 2 focus points and animal gets 1. If you assume that you get a focus point when you first get a focus ability and occasionally some skills will remind you to increase the focus point pool by one, then each only gets one.

That's not quite right: the Druidic Order class feature gives *All* druids a focus point. Then the storm and leaf orders explicitly give those orders a second point. No assuming needed.


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I'm missing something:why not just take an Arcane or Primal caster multiclass dedication? Ahh, I realize I've figured out the answer: as a Champion/Monk you will have Divine/Occult proficiency (for your save DC) that scales higher; if you are just doing the multiclass for the cantrips and not planning to take more spellcasting feats you'll be stuck at Trained.


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blashimov wrote:
Sorry if this is answered before, but since bard and entertainer both say you become trained in perform, and I think you can't become expert at level one right? So doesn't this punish an iconic combination? Can you become trained in something else when class and background overlap like that? There must be a bunch of other examples too.

Check out CRB Page 60:

Pathfinder 2 Core Rulebook wrote:
If you gain the trained proficiency rank in a skill from your background and would then gain the trained proficiency rank in the same skill from your class at 1st level, you instead become trained in another skill of your choice.

1/5

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Minor point: Performance can also be used to Earn Income. (And I believe Perform(x) could also be used during a Day Job check, though that's neither here nor there).


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Midnightoker wrote:


I am not sure what other single action spells that aren't compositions logistically exist, but it could be possible.

One action Magic Missile (on list), comes to mind.

There's also 1 action Heal, though that's off-list.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:


Also since the dedication feat is often the least exciting part of the archetype, I'm leery of having to have to take two.

So, if Hellknight requires Armiger, I would expect Hellknight Dedication to provide solid mechanical benefits, instead of just being the standard Dedication feat that mostly serves as a gateway.


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Character Name: Ahmotep
Role Card: Eldritch Scion
Skill Feats: Strength+2, Intelligence+4, Charisma+1.
Power Feats: +1 hand size, On your check, you may discard (* or Recharge) a card to add or subtract 2 (* or the card's AD#..., You may recharge a card that has the Staf trait to add 1d8 (*and you may add the Fire trait) , * On your check, after the roll, discard to remove or reroll 1 die, *you may discard (* or recharge) a spell to draw a spell
Card Feats: Weapon +1, Spell+3, Armor+1, Item+2
Weapons: Crook and Flail of Kings, Sfaff of the Hooded Cobra,Dancing Scimitar +2
Spells: Boneshatter, Disable Mechanism, Foresight, Safety Bubble, Sands of Time, Spite Cloud, Vision.
Armors: Elemental Brass Mail, Aegis of Recovery (replaced by Khepresh of Refuge in the final scenario)
Items: Cartouche of Protection, Golden Serpent Armband, Life Lantern, Pharaoh's Key, Mask of the Forgotten Pharaoh.
Allies: Erayu, Stained Glass Elemental
Blessings: Anubis, Lady of Graves, Ptah

No deaths. Agreed that this was my best set of the first four. Now it's time to play some Core at home. :)

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Since I made this point in a different thread: In my experience, giving out one hero point per hour to *one PC at the table* hasn't been all that disruptive. I was running 1-01 at a local gameday last weekend, and the rougly one Hero Point per hour was a good way for me to call out the MVP of the last part/encounter; I just made sure not to double up which players got additional Hero Points.
Initially, I thought that the guidance was to give 1 point to everyone each hour, and I agree that that is way too many to give out.

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It's part of the Guide.
Note that right now it's just the CRB + Bestiary. The Connections skill feat isn't legal, the Experienced Smuggler feat has a codified benefit, and everyone has access to Wayfinders. (Since they are uncommon, you'd otherwise need some rules element to provide access to them).

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Except it does, in the last sentence Robert quoted. Your quote says how much downtime you receive. Robert’s quote talks about how you spend received downtime to Earn Income.

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Paul Crotteau wrote:
There is also no rush, as there are no adventures at that level yet.

1-00 uses the level 5 pregens.

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CigarPete wrote:

Players who sit down with Glyphs also get to hand out hero points at the start of the session - three glyphs, 3 points, though it caps at one received per player.

I don't know, it feels way overpowered for each player to sit down with three rerolls.

How do you sit down with three, unless everyone at the table had a CSC? A T-shirt doesn’t give a reroll, it just gives a +1 bonus to the reroll.


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Wheldrake wrote:
This question is central to guiding DMs and players in using lore skills. Is it just knowing, or can it also be doing? Earn Income checks suggest it could be a bit of both.

That's the key. You Earn Income during downtime with Lore; the example shows Harsk serving tea with his Tea Lore. That said, sometimes there's a better skill to use. Are you trying to navigate via the stars on a ship? Sure, I'd probably allow Sailing Lore in place of Survival. Climbing the rigging or otherwise maneuvering around the ship? That's almost certainly still Athletics or Acrobatics.


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I'll be taking the Bard dedication on my PFS main (a Druid). So the CHA synergy isn't there; but starting with a 14 and advancing it every 5 levels isn't *too* onerous for me; I'll be getting some secondary benefits like a better Diplomacy modifier for my Wild Empathy checks.
I've been planning to put about half my class feats into the Bard MC, the other half will mostly be the Animal Companion feats. Initially, I thought I'd just want to go the Spellcasting route with Bard MC, but looking at it again I think I might just be better off grabbing compositions though Bard feats instead (Inspire Courage for sure; maybe Inspire Competence / Counter-Perform as well).

1/5

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Yeah, I also initially misinterpreted the guidance as 1 reroll per player, per hour, which indeed is quite excessive. I think 1 hero point per table, per hour is more workable, *if* PCs actually undertook heroic actions to earn them (or, more likely at my tables, a player made an IG joke that gave me/the rest of the table a good laugh).
I'd keep in mind that Hero Points aren't just rerolls; they can be used to avoid death; so some players will be reluctant to use their only one as a reroll, unless they clearly crit failed a saving throw or something particularly nasty like that.


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Field Medic proved to be a popular background at GenCon; I think there were three of us at our table of 1-02. So at the very least I appreciate the diversity of Lores, and being able to take Undead Lore or Abyssal Lore in place of Warfare Lore, but still get Medicine/Field Medicine.


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Shahnaz wrote:


Yeah, I thought about switching Canny to Incredible once I reached lvl 11.

What else would I go for at lvl 7 then? Incredible Ini instead?

Untrained Improvisation, since that comes fully online at 7th, unless you have another plan for +Level to untrained.


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Is this considered repeatable? I've played it once and run it once, so I'm wondering if I can keep running it to give the chronicle sheet to my -2003 and higher numbered characters. It's shorter than 1-01, but longer than the Sandstone Secret, so until more quests come out, it can fill the need for a 2-3 hour scenario to run for people new to Pathfinder 2E. (I'd plan to redo the pregens in HeroLab, and otherwise just use the 2e Bestiary).


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John Lynch 106 wrote:
In PFS your out of luck of course. At that point you might as well pick at random.

I dunno, Lore:Pathfinder Society will probably come up frequently in PFS :)


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pauljathome wrote:

Some abilities trigger on a failure. For example, Dubious Knowledge says "when you fail ...". If I roll a crit fail does it trigger?

The glossary defines a crit fail as a worse failure so, RAW, I think it DOES trigger. But it's pretty unclear to me so I thought that I'd see what others think

I don't believe Dubious Knowledge should trigger on a Critical Failure; you should just get the incorrect information in that case. Now, whether that's WAR is debatable, but that's the way I will be running it. And sure, if it's not a secret roll the player will know it's bad info, but I try to trust my players to not metagame and separate their player knowledge (what they rolled on the d20) with the GM knowledge (of what I gave them). IME, players take the bad information and run with it, to hilarious ends.


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That you can heighten lower level spells, like Vampiric Touch, by preparing them in higher level slots.
Edit: Ninja'd by 4 seconds...

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