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I've seen some threads and comments around here, asking what class people most want to see brought back. I'm pleased and pleasantly surprised to see that generally speaking, Magus is the first and most popular pick. In my eyes, that's great. I'm a huge fan of the Magus' theme combining spells and martial prowess in ways other classes can never replicate, and I'm hopeful Paizo takes note of the community interest. But something comes to mind that I can't help but question.
While I've seen lots of comments asking for Magus, nobody really says what they actually want out of the class. Besides having an even mix of martial and magic "gish" instead of archetype dabbling for one or the other, nobody's really gone into specifics. I've seen some want it as an archetype or some want it as a class focused on focus spells. Seeing as how I've been trying to do my own theoretical write-up of the Magus class anyhow, I figured I might as well ask the question: What do people want to actually see in the Magus class? What do you think best encapsulates its theme? Hell, what do you think is the actual theme of the class?
Answer! Talk! Discuss! Maybe if Desna is kind Paizo will see this thread and give consideration to the conversations within. One can hope, right?
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"What do YOU want to see in a Magus?" Nothing, their skin should be opaque. Important if the nude thing catches on.
I only partied with one Magus in 1e so this is mostly off the cuff. Their spell list should focus on touch spell they can deliver with their weapon and buffs for combat. Their feats should focus on similar areas. Maybe a weapons specialization as well.
This will keep them good at what they do, without leaving regular martiala and arcane casters behind.
I feel like Magus shouldn't be limited to touch spells, and should rather be able to deliver any sort of spell. I could see them having master weapons/expert casting since they'll likely use their weapon proficiencies for a lot of offensive casting. As I mentioned in another thread, I could also see them being the first 2 slot/level caster.
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An arcane, Int-based, spell-slot spellcaster, that is nevertheless capable in melee. And by 'capable' I mean Master in melee attacks and probably AC (as well as Master Proficiency in Arcane Spells), and a custom action to combine a touch spell spell and a melee attack. It should definitely also include a Focus Spell that is an attack roll melee spell for elemental damage.
They can have significant downsides to make up for that (fewer spells per level, not great Saves, fewer other Class features, etc.), but that's what's really needed in terms of chassis.
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Rude. I've pontificated on what I want out of Magi plenty of times in various places.
A practitioner of an ancient style that originated with the magic warriors of the distant past, but that has since evolved into wildly different variations throughout Golarian, you combine martial artistry with spellcasting to create devastating attacks. You find yourself equally at home on a battlefield, guarding an ancient temple or grove, or simply engrossed in your spellbook, arguing the finer distinctions of esoteric lore with other seekers of knowledge. There are many spell casters in the world, and even more weapon users, but your ability to combine both is unsurpassed.
Proficiencies: Trained in Simple weapons and a single weapon group of martial weapons, Light Armor, Reflex, spellcasting according to their tradition, lore skill according to their tradition, 4+Int other skills, Perception.
Expert in Fortitude and Will saves.
Key Ability score: Int
1st level class feature: Magus Style (see below). Choose your tradition and first focus spell (all focus spells are 1 action spells). Like a witch, Magi are prepared any tradition casters, though they only get a baseline of 2 spells per level.
You also get a spellbook.
1st level class Feature: Arcane Pool, with a number of daily uses equal to your key ability modifier + 1/2 class level rounded down, minimum 1 use. Your first ability is to expend a charge to make your weapons magical for 1 minute. Follow on feats add new uses, including applying a rune, using it to recover a spell slot, or increasing the damage of your cantrips by 1 die size.
1st level feats: At least 4 variations of Spell Strike, one each for classic "duel wielding" a spell and weapon, a power attack variation for 2h weapons, a Spell Arrow that is more or less Reach Spell that is keyed off your weapon's range, and some kind of Spell Shield.
Further feats: Spell Combat (attack spells are treated as Agile), all of the Bespell Weapon variations, more focus spells, arcane pool options, and improvements to spell strike. Some metamagic and combat feats are fine, but usually 2 levels behind a main caster/martial. Stance feats that combine magic and weapons are A+ approved. Edit: Also some kind of intelligent weapon progression. The familiar rules, suitably modified to apply to an item, seem promising.
Magus Styles - I jokingly referred to the initial 4 subclasses as "Red Knight", "Blue Knight", "Black Knight", and "White Knight", casting Occult, Primal, Arcane, and Divine spells respectively.
Red Knights focus on status effects, with their focus spells causing increasing levels of debilitation. Blue Knights get adaptive transmutations, like resistance, a breath weapon, flight, ect. Black Knights get pure elemental damage. Divine gets a temporary aura that provides increasing bonuses to perception rolls, saves, and eventually fast healing.
Proficiency progression: I want them to top off at Master at spell attack rolls, Armor, weapons. Should also get access to Greater Weapon Striking.
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The biggest problems I've had with my Fighter/MC Wizard and my Sorceror/MC Champion, is accuracy with their MC abilities. The fighter wants to avoid spell attacks and spell saves, so self-buffs, mobility, and battlefield control (walls/fogs/etc) have been my go to.
The sorcror first on the other hand, basically never wants to swing a weapon, its a bad use of an action.
So anything that helps keep the accuracy close to a non-fighter martial would be good.
The second biggest problem is the action economy. I'd like to see a free-action/once-per round type thing to 'if your previous action was a strike and your next activity is Cast a Spell, remove an action from the spell.' typpe of thing. But I'm more about wanting to mix spell and strikes, and less about the 'deliver touch spells through weapon' view of a magus. I don't want the 'strike + cast a spell' to be 'unable to move stay stationary the whole time' due to no actions unless quickened.
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Heavy use of the focus cantrip seen in bards. I find that mechanic is an underused method to create a 'bread and butter' magical ability that isn't just spamming standard spells from a spell slot. A basic standard action that can allow them to act as a 'magical warrior' at all times without having to worry about resource management.
It would be pretty simple too. Just have a one action (probably verbal) spell that has 'if your next action is a melee attack and it hits, then add X damage'. Perhaps a variety of cantrips, each with different elements (for easy use of enemy weaknesses).
Focus points can be reserved for the nova version that deals more damage or adds on additional effects.
There's an npc in one of the books (don't remember which one), that has spellstrike. It's a free action as part of casting a spell, they make a strike with their weapon and if they hit the spell affects the target. If the spell requires a save they take a penalty.
The npc is quite high level, so it's hard to say what a low level version of that ability would be but that may give an indication of where Paizo is thinking to go with that ability at least.
I think the action economy means magus gains a ton out of haste, so some ability that lets them become quickened (focus spell?).
I'd prefer to have more options than fewer so I don't want them to be restricted to just arcane spells though.
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I'd like either Focus Cantrips or a way to regain Focus in combat and not have a spell list (which I think would make for more interesting magical abilities).
I'd like to see stances cause wildly different styles (armor monger, magic sword, magic bow, spell-punch with a shield in the other hand, etc.). I'd really like to see the Shield and Magic Punch thing, Pool Strike was something I wanted to build around in 1e but never could.
I'd like to see Master in their weapon, and I don't really care about their spell proficiency because they should be delivering them at the end of a weapon anyways.
And they should do something interesting with the Action Economy, that was a big deal with the original and I think it's a good carry over into an edition with a strong action system.
I'd like either Focus Cantrips or a way to regain Focus in combat and not have a spell list (which I think would make for more interesting magical abilities).
Agreed. Spell lists are nice for your all purpose wizards and clerics, but you don't need 10 spell levels to make a 'magical' character. I feel that all of the 6 and 4 spell level classes are better served with just giving them useful focus spells.
Heck, the paladin is already a prime example of a former spell caster that got rid of the spell list but still has plenty of magic related work. Admittedly, the focus regain mechanic is kind of broken for them since an explicitly stated focus recharge option for religious classes is the use of medicine on allies, which effectively gives them an perpetual double healing cycle.
But that is another area that 'gish' characters could focus on. Focus recharge through standard gameplay. It actually reminds me of how i considered making a ki-addicted hungry ghost monk (has ki power to steal ki with kills/crits- which i wanted to play as the monk's first option for everything so they could get their next dose of ki).
I want to see someone functional as a spell-less, mystical warrior. Self buffing, summoning weapons, and elemental attacks. This kind of character didn't have a ton of support in PF1, unfortunately. We had the stygian blade and a few kineticist variants, but not much else. Most of these characters were very driven by spells.
We could use the new paradigm of focus spells to make their big bursts, while having bard-like cantrips to compose their at-will abilities. Of course, solid support for using multi-classed spells would fill the desire for a more versatile, spell-driven character, too.
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I think whether a PF1 4-level or 6-level spellcasting class should get full spellcasting in PF2 depends a lot on how important magic was to the concept of the Class.
Magic was very important to the Bard and so they got to be casters, it was much less important to the Paladin or Ranger and so they didn't. I'd say that, for the Magus, it's even more important than it is for the Bard and not being a caster does the Class a grave thematic disservice.
I'm all for an entirely cantrip and focus spell based magical warrior, but that seems more like a melee Kineticist than a Magus in terms of theme. Or something new entirely.
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I don't want to see a Magus.
I think whether a PF1 4-level or 6-level spellcasting class should get full spellcasting in PF2 depends a lot on how important magic was to the concept of the Class.
Magic was very important to the Bard and so they got to be casters, it was much less important to the Paladin or Ranger and so they didn't. I'd say that, for the Magus, it's even more important than it is for the Bard and not being a caster does the Class a grave thematic disservice.
I'm all for an entirely cantrip and focus spell based magical warrior, but that seems more like a melee Kineticist than a Magus in terms of theme. Or something new entirely.
Magic is more important for the magus... but the problem is "not very much magic" is important for them.
The bard has a long history of varied buffs, enchantments, and illusions. Even melee focused bards with minimum spell casting stats would take advantage of many of these options on a regular basis.
The magus... was mostly known for shocking grasp. As far as builds went, it was often a major departure if you simply picked a different spell to spam constantly. It was the curse of the 'correct' build that used the specific traits that allows them to cover metamagic costs.
So a large, varied spell list isn't exactly something that a magus would miss much. Heck, in 1e, you could relegate pretty much the entire rest of their spell book to utility spells if you grabbed a hexcrafter and used that to grab flight instead. And while utility spells are nice for problem solving, they are not a core part of the class's theme.
So the magus would likely be one of the better classes to use for a slotless magical character in this edition. Give them class feats that give them some of the major utility spells as focus spells, and they will do fine.
I honestly think the Magus shouldn't be a Spell Casting Class. Just give it lots of spell like abilities and focus points. Since they aren't doing half spell list classes anymore I don't see how it could be any different. A full spell casting class that isn't good at fighting wouldn't be a good fit for a Magus.
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Magic is more important for the magus... but the problem is "not very much magic" is important for them.
The bard has a long history of varied buffs, enchantments, and illusions. Even melee focused bards with minimum spell casting stats would take advantage of many of these options on a regular basis.
The magus... was mostly known for shocking grasp. As far as builds went, it was often a major departure if you simply picked a different spell to spam constantly. It was the curse of the 'correct' build that used the specific traits that allows them to cover metamagic costs.
So a large, varied spell list isn't exactly something that a magus would miss much. Heck, in 1e, you could relegate pretty much the entire rest of their spell book to utility spells if you grabbed a hexcrafter and used that to grab flight instead. And while utility spells are nice for problem solving, they are not a core part of the class's theme.
So the magus would likely be one of the better classes to use for a slotless magical character in this edition. Give them class feats that give them some of the major utility spells as focus spells, and they will do fine.
I strongly disagree with almost all of this.
The Magus certainly is iconic for using Shocking Grasp, in the same way a Druid using Wild Shape is iconic, and it's for that very reason I think they should have a shocking grasp-like Focus Spell, but having played with a few different Magus characters, I remember quite a lot of other spells as well, including, but not limited to, shield, dimension door, bladed dash, fireball, dispel magic, fly, and mirror image. Frankly, while shocking grasp was certainly the most common single non-cantrip spell used, it was outnumbered by all the other spells they had combined by a fair bit.
Them not being as good at magic as Sorcerers and Wizards and being primarily focused on combat magic were certainly also factors, but the idea of 'all their spell slots were just shocking grasp they won't miss having other spells' is pretty much just flatly untrue.
Thematically, they are a prepared Int-based arcane caster with a spellbook, and the world assumes that to be the case, making it pretty thematically necessary for it to stay true, IMO. I also want all that to stay true, and think it's better for the Class and provides a more immediately necessary role (ie: full caster with actual fighting stats) than the Focus Spell/Cantrip caster (which, once again, I think is a good idea...for Kineticist or some new Class entirely, or maybe for Inquisitor, a Class who is much less focused on their magic beyond having healing and some self-buffs).
Magic is more important for the magus... but the problem is "not very much magic" is important for them.
The bard has a long history of varied buffs, enchantments, and illusions. Even melee focused bards with minimum spell casting stats would take advantage of many of these options on a regular basis.
The magus... was mostly known for shocking grasp. As far as builds went, it was often a major departure if you simply picked a different spell to spam constantly. It was the curse of the 'correct' build that used the specific traits that allows them to cover metamagic costs.
So a large, varied spell list isn't exactly something that a magus would miss much. Heck, in 1e, you could relegate pretty much the entire rest of their spell book to utility spells if you grabbed a hexcrafter and used that to grab flight instead. And while utility spells are nice for problem solving, they are not a core part of the class's theme.
So the magus would likely be one of the better classes to use for a slotless magical character in this edition. Give them class feats that give them some of the major utility spells as focus spells, and they will do fine.
I strongly disagree with almost all of this.
The Magus certainly is iconic for using Shocking Grasp, in the same way a Druid using Wild Shape is iconic, and it's for that very reason I think they should have a shocking grasp-like Focus Spell, but having played with a few different Magus characters, I remember quite a lot of other spells as well, including, but not limited to, shield, dimension door, bladed dash, fireball, dispel magic, fly, and mirror image. Frankly, while shocking grasp was certainly the most common single non-cantrip spell used, it was outnumbered by all the other spells they had combined by a fair bit.
From that list, their tool box can mostly be boiled down to "shocking grasp and the absolutely most bare bones utility and defense spells".
Other than fireball and dispel, the rest of those sound like things that you could very, very easily see as focus spells. Dimensional door already has a ki spell that essentially covers the same ground, and you will always see flight style options sprinkled liberally. (ignore shield in this, since it is a cantrip, and it can very easily be brought out of a spell slot discussion).
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I'd like to really see Paizo push what they've done with class feats and activities with a magus.
Stances that provide unique, magical benefits. Focus Stances like the monk one that let you do completely new things. Special attacks that replicate the concept of blending magical and martial ability. Maybe borrow some ideas from like Desert Wind from the Tome of Battle.
Class feats and unique activities provided by them are, imo, a great opportunity to really explore the concept of actively blending magic and martial skill into one cohesive discipline in a way that even the PF1 Magus couldn't and nothing in PF2 can even approach right now.
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From that list, their tool box can mostly be boiled down to "shocking grasp and the absolutely most bare bones utility and defense spells".
Other than fireball and dispel, the rest of those sound like things that you could very, very easily see as focus spells. Dimensional door already has a ki spell that essentially covers the same ground, and you will always see flight style options sprinkled liberally. (ignore shield in this, since it is a cantrip, and it can very easily be brought out of a spell slot discussion).
That list was hardly exhaustive. I also saw plenty of uses of Color Spray, Grease, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Greater Invisibility, Haste, Vampiric Touch, and Stoneskin. It's a combat focused list, but not exclusively just a couple of spells by any means.
And I saw lots of switching out spells to solve specific problems, like Wizards do. In particular, with Improved Spell Recall they could grab any spell out of their book to solve specific problems. Doing so was no minor thing and I saw plenty of it.
How many Magi did you see in play? Because especially at high levels, Improved Spell Recall made them very good spot problem solvers in a fun and thematic way.
So here's the first order of business; I see a few comments wanting casting, but not "full" casting like a Wizard. So here's my first suggestions:
=Standard spell progression without any extra spells, exactly as the Bard and Druid; two other classes that while heavily spell-reliant, have other means of contributing to various situations.
=No innate 10th-level spells. Maybe a capstone feat that gives them the 10th-level casting benefits other casters get- two common 10th-level spells, one 10th-level spell slot per day.
What do people think of that, just for starters?
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I think drop the idea of a full 9-10 levels of spellcasting. That's just too pricey, it'll make it impossible to afford the things we can't do without.
What can't we do without? Sufficient martial prowess to feel like you should actually be fighting with weapons. So I'd like to spend whatever is needed on the spellcasting side to be able to have full martial progression.
So what we're starting out is a blank martial chassis, that gets Master with weapons and Expert with armors at the typical speed (barbarian, ranger, champion). For class features and feats however, we're going to lean towards magic. Champions have quite a few somewhat magical feats, lacing weapon attacks with good damage, infusing a weapon or shield with divine power etc.; the magus could work like that too.
Leaning heavily into focus spells is also a way to feel like you're casting a "caster" amount of spells every combat, without actually having to have 10 levels of spellcasting. Magus arcana could be a bit like composition cantrips in that way, much more reusable.
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I think drop the idea of a full 9-10 levels of spellcasting. That's just too pricey, it'll make it impossible to afford the things we can't do without.
I'm not convinced of this. It might be true, but with, say, two spells per spell level (or three, but with serious limitations) and only Master in Proficiency with them, I think it's possible to afford Master in weapons and armor.
An idea I had that I was at first rather proud of but now a bit unsure over is something of an "Arcane Trance". Flavored as a state in which magic and weapon alike move as extensions of the Magus' body, it functioned something like Barbarian's Rage or (as described to me) Swashbuckler's Panache.
It lasted only one turn, but you could maintain the effects either with a concentrate action or extending it to a full minute by sacrificing one of your spells/spell slots. I had ideas for a few feats that granted benefits based on the level of the spell sacrificed (encouraging cost and consideration, rather than just mindlessly giving up your 1st-level placeholder spell so you can let loose) and Magus getting focus spells/cantrips that could only be used during this "Arcane Trance".
I was pretty damn proud of the idea, but as I worked on it and reviewed what the Magus can do I started feeling a little ridiculous because the Magus already has a lot of really cool stuff it can do on its own.
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Leaving the Magus at Expert casting and expecting that to be a balcony factor is nearly impossible, as you can just get master casting from taking a caster archetype - if they’re INT based, witch will cover any list and if they’re CHA based (for whatever reason) Sorcerer will cover any list.
I would give them master/master with fewer slots than a normal spellcaster (2 slots per level rather than 3, maybe no 10th spell).
That list was hardly exhaustive. I also saw plenty of uses of Color Spray, Grease, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Greater Invisibility, Haste, Vampiric Touch, and Stoneskin. It's a combat focused list, but not exclusively just a couple of spells by any means.
And I saw lots of switching out spells to solve specific problems, like Wizards do. In particular, with Improved Spell Recall they could grab any spell out of their book to solve specific problems. Doing so was no minor thing and I saw plenty of it.
How many Magi did you see in play? Because especially at high levels, Improved Spell Recall made them very good spot problem solvers in a fun and thematic way.
Ok. You are an effective user of the arcane spell list. I will no begrudge you that. But the things you list are 'things that literally any class with the standard arcane spell list does'. But Paizo has shown no appetite yet for partial level casters.
So we have to ask, for the amount of class differentiation and left over design space after standard spell casting (which would likely go for 10 levels), what are we left with of "arcane caster with sword" that couldn't be covered by a wizard thesis and a couple class feats?
What we have seen, so far, is that paizo is willing to take a former spell casting class, and give it a focus point system instead. That leaves a lot more design space to do something interesting.
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Ok. You are an effective user of the arcane spell list. I will no begrudge you that. But the things you list are 'things that literally any class with the standard arcane spell list does'. But Paizo has shown no appetite yet for partial level casters.
Partial level casters don't really work in PF2, so I doubt we'll see any.
So we have to ask, for the amount of class differentiation and left over design space after standard spell casting (which would likely go for 10 levels), what are we left with of "arcane caster with sword" that couldn't be covered by a wizard thesis and a couple class feats?
Master in weapons, probably Master in armor, Spell Combat (which, if done properly, should take up a lot more design space than a Thesis), basically ditching School entirely, a different Save progression, possibly something based on the PF1 Arcane Pool...
Lots of stuff, really. Magus has a lot of stuff you can incorporate, the tricky bit is fitting in casting and all the rest of what they need...but it's merely tricky rather than impossible.
What we have seen, so far, is that paizo is willing to take a former spell casting class, and give it a focus point system instead. That leaves a lot more design space to do something interesting.
They've also shown they can take a 6-level caster and make them a fun and effective full caster. That's exactly what Bard is after all. So...it's certainly doable.
Indeed, we have yet to actually see a 6-level caster converted to a Focus Spell user, that's all been 4-level casters thus far.
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Just wanna say; one way or another really happy to see all the discussion going on and happening so quickly. When PF2e was being previewed and people were going "We can multiclass Wizard into Fighter or vice-versa, Magus is dead", I got the impression it wasn't a particularly valued class.
Really happy to see people passionate about the Magus and its thematic.
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Just a good base chassis that allows the class to do its thing without having to jump through hoops (Basic feature granting combat casting and not triggering Reactions while doing so), so that the feats become actual options and playstyle enhancers. We don't need an Alchemist 2.0.
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What do I think best encapsulates the Magus?
<3
;p
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I’m also going to have to disagree with Magi becoming focus/non caster only. For one, that leaves little room for Kineticists. Secondly, and more importantly, I want a proper gish that casts from slots and uses weapons, and I see no reason not to have it be the Magus.
9th and 10th level casting you all might have a point about. I’d want their focus spells and cantrips to innately scale that high, and have the ability to buy a limited number via feats, but the basic chassis could skip those levels I suppose.
Also looking at the Magus Spell list from PF1, they didnt cheat on spell levels. So a 6th level cap with master spellcasting could potentially work, specially given how spell DC is not based on spell level. It being the only caster with 6th level spells would allow them to have much more free use of Proficiency. It also would naturally exclude many of the high level problematic spells, giving them even more space.
This is also an idea. 13th level is when the proficiencies of martials and casters really heavily diverge, so losing access to higher slots while they move to martial proficiency track might make sense.
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What reaction should Magi get?
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If Magus doesn't have as an option: prepared, arcane spellcasting from a spellbook, then I'll riot. That would essentially be taking the core and original idea of the class out behind the barn and shooting it in the head.
A magus devotes their entire self to the study of magic and combat. The truly astounding amount of effort required to master both aligns them more with monks and their quest for self perfection than either of their parent classes.
Fundamentally a Magus is the result of what happens when a wizard spends an equal amount of time training their body for war as studying their spells.
If you suggest the Magus class can be made without at least the option of reduced wizard-like casting, you are describing a different class.
Their casting needs to be balanced, yes, and that may be a challenge, but it is a challenge worth undertaking if Paizo wants to be faithful to the core of what a Magus is.
If they can't do that, they should make a Kineticist that checks other people's non-caster, blaster, focus-spell-only checkboxes first. Once that's out of the way there will be less pressure to warp the Magus into that bastardized form.
I think a "core" of eldritch knight would be a good starting point. Master proficiencies all around, heavy armor, limited spells per day (but not limited spell level, full level 10 casting) but able to rely mostly on focus cantrips/spells and stances for their encounter-to-encounter magus-ing. Have some martial feats available, but not all of the Fighter ones ready right off the bat (like AoO, much like Champions and Barbarians).
Focus cantrips and focus spells doing a lot of heavy lifting I think makes it so the class can "Do Its Thing" all day and never be stuck just being a fighter, with some ability to power up with a spell slot but not required to. I think focus points have enough inherent limitations in their availability and the time it takes to regain them that it wouldn't be overpowering.
As far as strike+spell, it needs to be at most two actions or else it won't work. It's been discussed in previous magus threads, but a three-action strike+spell (spellstrike, if you will) is a non-starter because any amount of movement invalidates a major draw for the class. Spellstrike should probably also be something you can use with focus cantrips but maybe not regular cantrips, to not hamper cantrip development for everyone else. I also think spellstrike should probably give a +2 to hit when you spend a focus point or spell slot with it.
So a magic warrior, solid at the spelling and the fighting, reliant mostly on their magic powers for damage, probably limited in their shield usage, with feats that give some combat utility like Sudden Charge or Nimble Dodge or whatever, but not as much in the vein of Double Slice or Power Attack or Point-blank Shot.
I would expect it to be built like the alchemist in a way. Or more like the witch from the playtest.
1) Focus Cantrips to give them a spell they can use regularly with their attacks. Using Focus points let's them do more things.
2) feats that let them pick up combat abilities as well as "known" spells that they gain access to that heighten, kind of like a Warlock in 5e.
3) 2 action spell strike, letting you use the focus cantrip with your regular attack. Perhaps add a competent/action to use a leveled spell or focus spell instead of the cantrip.
4) if a three action spell strike is a thing, it needs top include movement as an option like sudden charge.
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An idea I had that I was at first rather proud of but now a bit unsure over is something of an "Arcane Trance". Flavored as a state in which magic and weapon alike move as extensions of the Magus' body, it functioned something like Barbarian's Rage or (as described to me) Swashbuckler's Panache.
It lasted only one turn, but you could maintain the effects either with a concentrate action or extending it to a full minute by sacrificing one of your spells/spell slots. I had ideas for a few feats that granted benefits based on the level of the spell sacrificed (encouraging cost and consideration, rather than just mindlessly giving up your 1st-level placeholder spell so you can let loose) and Magus getting focus spells/cantrips that could only be used during this "Arcane Trance".
I was pretty damn proud of the idea, but as I worked on it and reviewed what the Magus can do I started feeling a little ridiculous because the Magus already has a lot of really cool stuff it can do on its own.
Unless the blood ranger gets absorbed by various Barbarian totems, hold onto this idea.
This could also be the beginnings of a Stance feat chain.
When PF2e was being previewed and people were going "We can multiclass Wizard into Fighter or vice-versa, Magus is dead", I got the impression it wasn't a particularly valued class.
For me it was just the opposite. PF2's multiclassing system was really hyped as a way to blend classes and options together and I had hoped that'd just let you build your own gish right out of the box and accomplish a lot of what the Magus was built to accomplish naturally within the system.
Less that it wasn't a valuable concept and more that we'd just have the tools to make our own easily, but the actual mechanics we have fall pretty short of letting you do that.
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I don't want to see a Magus.
Why not?
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Just take everything the Warpriest Cleric has and transfer it over to an Arcane spell list. There you go, you have your Magus.
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Just take everything the Warpriest Cleric has and transfer it over to an Arcane spell list. There you go, you have your Magus.
Warpriest cleric doesn't really do much to capture any of the martial/spellcaster hybrid aesthetic or mystique. It's very much just a traditional spellcaster who trades away a tier of proficiency for better fort saves and armor.
So I don't think that would really work at all.
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Just take everything the Warpriest Cleric has and transfer it over to an Arcane spell list. There you go, you have your Magus.Warpriest cleric doesn't really do much to capture any of the martial/spellcaster hybrid aesthetic or mystique. It's very much just a traditional spellcaster who trades away a tier of proficiency for better fort saves and armor.
So I don't think that would really work at all.
It has Channel Smite. It has Divine Weapon. It has Expert weapon and eventually Expert armor proficiencies. I think it can eventually get to Master Spell Attack/DCs as well. Combined with some specialized focus powers and specializations/feats, and it does a ton of burst/nova damage just like PF1 Magus did.
It works better than you think. Granted, the Divine spell list doesn't have much in the way of targeted spells, with spells like Harm being solid staples, I'm sure Paizo can fabricate a couple feats that would better encapsulate the Arcane spell list which wouldn't be all that difficult at all in my opinion.
Also, realistically, if the Magus has better proficiencies and such than the Warpriest without trading something else in exchange (spell slots being too much, and it will have more Trained skills thanks to Intelligence as its primary stat), then they will either buff the Warpriest to the new Magus standard (AKA power creep), or they will nerf Magus to the Warpriest standard of proficiencies. In which case, you're actually smarter off simply being a Fighter who gets Legendary in weapons and taking all the Wizard/Sorcerer dedication spellcasting feats and being a Master in your chosen tradition.
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One thing with spells that always bugged me about the magus was that it's big trick was putting touch spells on weapons, but they didn't really have a lot of touch spells, let alone good ones - which really led into the shocking grasp builds. Whether it's focus or full spells, they need a list with a variety of good touch spells or focus powers.
And I really like the idea of focus stances.
Initially I was thinking that Magus would be better as an archetype rather than a full class. I still think it would work fine that way.
As an archetype, the dedication feat could grant access to cantrips the same way that Wizard dedication does. It would also have the spellcasting archetype feat chain the same as other spellcasting archetypes. It could also have archetype feats to add the weapon and armor proficiencies and the cool abilities like spellstrike.
However, that is a lot to pack into an archetype. If a player has to pick all of their class feats from the archetype list in order to build a character that fits the concept, then it should just be a class.
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So as a class, the biggest problem that I am seeing is that there is disagreement about what the class should include. There is team lemeres that sees the class as primarily martial with the ability to hit with both sword and Shocking Grasp. There is also team Deadmanwalking that needs the full flexibility of Wizard style spellcasting.
The only way I can see to resolve that is through class feat selection. As the base class chassis, give Expert weapon proficiency (same as other spellcasting classes) and automatic Master proficiency in either a particular bonded item weapon, or a chosen type of weapon. Also give the cantrip and level 1 spells granted through a spellcasting archetype and a good selection of focus spells (cantrip or otherwise). Signature abilities like spellstrike would also be part of the core class.
Then for class feats, you can pick between martial abilities (attack of opportunity, shield block, stances, and so on), and magical improvements (the rest of the spellcasting feats normally given to spellcasting archetypes).
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And in thinking about this, I think that is the best way to convert the 6-level spellcasting classes. 4-level classes like champion can be converted to focus spell casters. Some 6-level classes (like Bard) can be upgraded to full spell casting. Others (like Magus and Skald) can be given the spellcasting archetype feats as normal class feat options - let the player pick how much magic is important to the character concept.
It works better than you think.
I'm not saying it doesn't work. I'm just saying that for people interested in what the Magus represented in PF1, taking a Wizard and giving them better fort saves is not doing much of anything to satisfy that niche.
quote]In which case, you're actually smarter off simply being a Fighter who gets Legendary in weapons and taking all the Wizard/Sorcerer dedication spellcasting feats and being a Master in your chosen tradition.
Not really, Fighter MC wizard runs into the issue of not having very many spell slots and not even having a single spell slot until 4 (and even then, only one). The whole point of the Magus is that the basic premise of it is accessible from level 1.