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Well that's a bit disappointing. It's a little disheartening to received your subscription after it's released to everyone else that didn't subscribe.
But circumstances being what they are, it's understandable. I just wished they'd charge me and give me my PDFs at least.
This. Charge me and hold my money till it ships, and give us our pdfs.
I just got a customer service notification and got so excited!
Then saw it was for my 2 Subscriber bonus Starfinder society scenarios...
Significantly less excited lol!
Back to refreshing
Got the same. you're killin me ~smalls~ paizo!
Got the same. you're killin me ~smalls~ paizo!I just got a customer service notification and got so excited!
Then saw it was for my 2 Subscriber bonus Starfinder society scenarios...
Significantly less excited lol!
Back to refreshing
Which SFS Scenarios? 3-3 and 3-4? Because my July subscriptions did ship last week (I'm one of the lucky ones!) but I still haven't gotten the PFS and SFS scenarios.
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Which SFS Scenarios? 3-3 and 3-4? Because my July subscriptions did ship last week (I'm one of the lucky ones!) but I still haven't gotten the PFS and SFS scenarios.Got the same. you're killin me ~smalls~ paizo!I just got a customer service notification and got so excited!
Then saw it was for my 2 Subscriber bonus Starfinder society scenarios...
Significantly less excited lol!
Back to refreshing
Yeah, 3-3 & 3-4
I have a feeling that my APG isn't gonna ship at all.
Been pending since the 10th..... sigh!!!! :-(
I had high hopes after Bestiary 2 took 7 days to go from pending to shipped....APG is now 19 days and counting!
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thanks for the update. But I'm wondering are our pdf's being delayed as well until our books ship?Shipping Update:
Hi folks, thanks so much for your patience this month. I wanted to drop in for a correction and an update on shipping. Street date for our July subscriptions is actually Thursday, July 30, which aligns with the start of GenCon. I'm so sorry for the confusion! Additionally, shipping is taking longer than estimated, and the Warehouse Team has let us know that most folks should expect their shipping confirmation on Friday, July 31.
I know this is really disappointing news for some, so I wanted to take some time to break down two major factors contributing to this delay.
1. July is a massive month for subscriptions. Most of our subscription lines have a product releasing, which means orders take longer to build.
2. The warehouse team is taking extra pandemic precautions. As the only team that can't work remotely, Paizo is making sure to put their health and safety first. All of the team are working spread out in the warehouse and limiting interactions, which means that everything just takes a little longer. Those seconds and minutes add up for a big month like July.
Finally, I wanted to address some speculative comments with a blanket statement. We're always doing our best to look out for our customers, and thinking of how we can minimize impact to you all as much as possible when an issue or delay arises. It's not in our nature to "take it easy" while books are sitting unshipped and messages are waiting to be answered. Thanks again for your patience and understanding. If you have a concern with your order beyond the shipping delay, please open a new thread and we'll get to you as quickly as possible.
Yes, subscribers get their PDF when their books ship, even if it is after Street Release date. Release date is 30th, as mentioned in the quoted post, shipping should be finished by the 31st. So some of us will get the PDFs after the date you can buy them direct from the Paizo store. It's happened before, and it will happen again. I find it's best to just enjoy the FREE PDFs when they arrive, rather than stress about it. Then again, I'm in NZ, so my books won't arrive for months either - but they'll get here :)
so basically the subscribers got shafted
Almost all of the subscribers got their PDFs early. Some of us will get them after streetdate.
As a subscriber, each month there's a risk we won't see our PDFs until after non-subscribers can buy them. Most months we'll get them early.
It sucks to be last in a month (it's even worse when the subscription run "ends" and you realise yours has never spawned due to some technical glitch - that's the worst, in my experience. Doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen)
Credit card was charged on Monday, still pending. Hoping for tomorrow.
Hopefully I can cancel my subscription if I don't have the apg by the 30th.
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The fact that there was a computer error and 2 days of shipping were lost is not on the customer. I would hope that Paizo would take that into account and help those subscribers out with their pdf. Grace extends both ways.
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When you subscribe, what do you buy?
[ ] - the Book and PDF and early shipping
[x] - the Book.
Paizo is trying to get the books out early so that most subscribers have them by street date. The PDF is a gift. Like getting a discount on the MSRP is a gift, if you have 4 or more subscriptions.
I'm no lawyer, but most likely, Paizo can't legally charge you for something you didn't order, and you ordered a physical book. Credit card regulations impose that they can put a hold (authorisation) on your card but can't actually charge you, as long as the package isn't ready to ship (though other companies do that, Paizo is going by the letter of the contract).
So, to my understanding, releasing the PDF ahead of shipping the book, and charging you for it is either a breach of contract with their credit card handling contractor, or even a breach of sales law.
The fact that there was a computer error and 2 days of shipping were lost is not on the customer. I would hope that Paizo would take that into account and help those subscribers out with their pdf. Grace extends both ways.
It’s not a trivial IT task, as I understand it. I’m sure they’ll take it into account and if it were easy, it’d probably be routine. However, other factors may preclude that happening (After all, they sometimes but don’t always release the PDFs when the subscription window expands beyond streetdate - that shows there’s a downside, even if we can’t see it).
An IT system built for magazine subscriptions, a forum and a tiny webstore on the side has been patched, tweaked, expanded and revised multiple times. It’s not always easy for anyone to know “what will happen if I push that button?”
From time to time there are efforts to improve, replace, upgrade and expand what Paizo’s computer can do. The fact it remains troublesome is an indication of the complexity of juggling lots of constraints, not an indication that they’re not keen to improve things.
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I've had thhis happen in the past and I called CS, and they gave me access to the PDF. Problem now is...can't call CS!!!
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I've had thhis happen in the past and I called CS, and they gave me access to the PDF. Problem now is...can't call CS!!!
Me too.
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When you subscribe, what do you buy?
[ ] - the Book and PDF and early shipping
[x] - the Book.Paizo is trying to get the books out early so that most subscribers have them by street date. The PDF is a gift. Like getting a discount on the MSRP is a gift, if you have 4 or more subscriptions.
I'm no lawyer, but most likely, Paizo can't legally charge you for something you didn't order, and you ordered a physical book. Credit card regulations impose that they can put a hold (authorisation) on your card but can't actually charge you, as long as the package isn't ready to ship (though other companies do that, Paizo is going by the letter of the contract).
So, to my understanding, releasing the PDF ahead of shipping the book, and charging you for it is either a breach of contract with their credit card handling contractor, or even a breach of sales law.
The PDF isn't a gift. It is part of the subscription. I pay for it. They get from me guaranteed income based on my subscription that is reliable to a point. A gift would be something they give out without charging you anything and would not be tied to your subscription.
Your logic, while I see it, is flawed. Paizo, and other companies, do in fact charge you regularly before your item is ready to ship. If you go to the web store right now, purchase a deck of cards that they show as available I believe, but not positive, your card is charged on check out if you do not add it to the side cart. Almost every online retailer charges you at the point of sale. Even Amazon can take a day to 3 days to ship a prime item and you are charged the moment you buy it. Then they ship you what you order.
The releasing of the PDF before the book is problematic for many reasons other than what you say here though. I agree with you that they SHOULDN'T give out the PDF until you are charged and the item is shipped. The reasons for this, in my opinion and as they have been explained to me, is that if they put the PDF in your account, you download it and then cancel the order you still have a copy of the PDF. This is problematic as you now have the product and they would technically be refunding your order. There are solutions to this, such as instead of cancelling they change your order to PDF only and charge you for the pdf. They can't recall the pdf, so that is why they tie it to the moment you are charged.
The other reason is that as someone else up stream pointed out is that local game stores rely on the sales of the books themselves and releasing massive amounts of PDF's before the release day can and does impact their local game store support which Paizo is big on.
However I am open to learning more, if you have a state/federal/international sales law that you can point me to I would like to read it. I don't think it exists though. I ordered a face mask from a facebook store. They charged me the day I ordered it, and the masks took about 6 weeks to arrive. My guess is they make them on demand, but it's only a guess. They definitely did not ship it and then charge me. It took about 5 weeks before they shipped out.
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wall of textthat's my thought as well. Only thought I had that could fix it is some sort of subscriber agreement we'd have to agree to saying once pdf available order can't get full refund. Or simply do what most other online retailers do and charge on order click. Would esp solve the stuff ive seen posted like shipping charges changed/Need to update payment method bc something happened while this order has been pending etc
I awake to more pending, yay for me.
I would 100% prefer to be charged when I put the order in, and only able to change the charge to the PDF amount if for some reason I no longer wanted or needed the physical books.
What bothers me is they already tried to charge me, I saw the amount pending for Paizo in my bank account for 4-5 days before it fell off and it got my hopes up that I'd get my PDF soon. v.v Oh well, more waiting for this bird.
wall of textthat's my thought as well. Only thought I had that could fix it is some sort of subscriber agreement we'd have to agree to saying once pdf available order can't get full refund. Or simply do what most other online retailers do and charge on order click. Would esp solve the stuff ive seen posted like shipping charges changed/Need to update payment method bc something happened while this order has been pending etcI awake to more pending, yay for me.
I would 100% prefer to be charged when I put the order in, and only able to change the charge to the PDF amount if for some reason I no longer wanted or needed the physical books.
What bothers me is they already tried to charge me, I saw the amount pending for Paizo in my bank account for 4-5 days before it fell off and it got my hopes up that I'd get my PDF soon. v.v Oh well, more waiting for this bird.
The Pending is a hold, and misleading. I've had a 'pending' hit multiple times once for a single battles order.... let me tell you that freaked me out until the extra orders rolled off. It was a couple of weeks before they actually shipped my order and was actually charged.... Think it was my first order for battles many many moons ago. Was lucky that they had the Huge Case for Return of the Runelords and the Rune Giant in stock. no way I was cancelling that order.
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The Pending is a hold, and misleading. I've had a 'pending' hit multiple times once for a single battles order.... let me tell you that freaked me out until the extra orders rolled off. It was a couple of weeks before they actually shipped my order and was actually charged.... Think it was my first order for battles many many moons ago. Was lucky that they had the Huge Case for Return of the Runelords and the Rune Giant in stock. no way I was cancelling that order.
I awake to more pending, yay for me.
I would 100% prefer to be charged when I put the order in, and only able to change the charge to the PDF amount if for some reason I no longer wanted or needed the physical books.
What bothers me is they already tried to charge me, I saw the amount pending for Paizo in my bank account for 4-5 days before it fell off and it got my hopes up that I'd get my PDF soon. v.v Oh well, more waiting for this bird.
Oh wow. I'd love to have that Rune Giant, I understand not cancelling that order!
This is the first time I've had the charge pend and then drop off, so it definitely confused me for a while. Normally the pending charge appears as I get the shipping notification.
The only actual problem the delay is causing me is I keep getting more and more likely to buy the Masks of Nyarlathotep slipcase from Chaosium. I do really want to run it some day but I currently don't even have a table for it. With the non-earliness of my July subs... I think it's like grocery shopping while hungry. Haha.
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Solution: No one gets the PDF until street date, regardless of when your order ships.
If it stops the complaints and helps the industry I am ok with this. However, if that is the solution it means your order gets charged on ship date whether it ships or not? Also ok with that. Least it would be consistent and subscribers who get the books early still get that boon too.
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Solution: No one gets the PDF until street date, regardless of when your order ships.If it stops the complaints and helps the industry I am ok with this. However, if that is the solution it means your order gets charged on ship date whether it ships or not? Also ok with that. Least it would be consistent and subscribers who get the books early still get that boon too.
One year ago, Paizo did exactly this for the Gencon release of 2e and the board was full of complaints. There will always be complaints.
One year ago, Paizo did exactly this for the Gencon release of 2e and the board was full of complaints. There will always be complaints.
Can't please everyone all at once, I suppose.
I'd prefer to at least have PDF access on street date, but I'm thinking it's more likely I get it after. It is unfortunate, I've been waiting for the APG to make my character for Extinction Curse that we're going to play soon.
The Paizo boards have proven consistently to be a place where your voice can be heard by the company. This is good and bad.
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The fact that it's been months and they haven't figured out how to get they're customer service department able to take calls while working from home makes me think they haven't even tried to figure it out. As someone who has worked CS from home it's not hard for a company to set it up.
When it comes to shipping this months books, they should have seen this coming and started shipping early. I realize that normally they would have given book to people in person at GenCon, but we've all know GenCon wouldn't be happening for months. What would have been the harm of starting shipping at the beginning of July?
It seems to me that Paizo leadership isn't adapting well to the changing world we are living in.
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When it comes to shipping this months books, they should have seen this coming and started shipping early. I realize that normally they would have given book to people in person at GenCon, but we've all know GenCon wouldn't be happening for months. What would have been the harm of starting shipping at the beginning of July?
You are making the assumption that they had the books at the beginning of July.
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The fact that it's been months and they haven't figured out how to get they're customer service department able to take calls while working from home makes me think they haven't even tried to figure it out. As someone who has worked CS from home it's not hard for a company to set it up.
When it comes to shipping this months books, they should have seen this coming and started shipping early. I realize that normally they would have given book to people in person at GenCon, but we've all know GenCon wouldn't be happening for months. What would have been the harm of starting shipping at the beginning of July?
It seems to me that Paizo leadership isn't adapting well to the changing world we are living in.
They had 2 subscription sets going out this month. The beginning of July was Battles subscribers and their warehouse was busy getting those out as quickly as possible. But I agree, probably would have been good to start shipping regular subs out just after.
This month musta been hell for their warehouse, covid aside. They also had an issue when the subs started sending out authorizations for both battles and for regular subs I believe.
This is the first month that case incentives weren't automatically added to battles subs. They are now considered promos.
Just alot of things have added up, I don't blame people for their irritation but when broken down there are reasons for most of the delays outside of just working from home.
The working from home CS Support though is definitely having a toll on customer relations. I am just glad I haven't had an issue I didn't need to have taken care of urgently since the pandemic broke out.