Best "all out" multiclass archetype combos?


Advice


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Let's brainstorm and discuss: If you were going to take a multiclass archetype, and essentially sub out all of your base class' feats, which base class and multiclass archetype combo would still make for a really good build?

What kind of concepts might the end result represent?

I'll start.

A fighter with lots of rogue feats is going to end up with a lot of skills while maintaining high combat accuracy and effectiveness. However, while their out-of-combat options explode, in-combat versatility becomes far more limited.

This might be a decent combo for any kind of savvy soldier concept. Perhaps a scheming pirate, a treacherous dark knight, a ronin who has learned much from his travels, or other skillful combatant (particularly one that still uses armor).


Playing the cleric of our group I have given both cloistered/champion and warpriest/sorcerer some consideration and both combinations seem decent.

Champion (e.g. Redeemer) can provide a lot of defensive benefits for the cloistered cleric himself as well as the party without adding too much additional roleplaying constraints. Any such character could pursue the path of a zealous scholar, trying to follow the teaching of his/her god/goddess not only by world, but also by deed.

Sorcerer (e.g. Imperial) can provide a lot of amazing spells like True Strike (if your god/goddess of choice does not already provide it), Longstrider or Haste to your otherwise limited divine arsenal of spells in addition to being very versatile in regards to your roleplaying concept. Due to the individual bloodlines involved I'd call it a warpriest with a twist. For example you could herald from a family of aristocrats and being able to trace back your powerful ancestry for generations (Imperial). Or a stalwart soul that through his devotion is trying to right what your ancestors wronged (Hag).

Silver Crusade

I'm greatly enjoying my cleric of Gozreh/druid. At level 7 all his feats have been druid feats.

Thematically and mechanically it's a great mix.

Note - I dithered long and hard between cleric multiclassing into druid or druid multiclassing into cleric. Both would work well with the resulting character similar but also different.


Fighter with Champion

Something like...
Lvl 4 Healing Touch
Lvl 6 Champion Reaction
Lvl 8 Divine Ally Blade
Lvl 10 Ranged Reprisal
Lvl 12 Smite Evil
Lvl 14 Deity Domain - Might
Lvl 16 Second Ally Shield
Lvl 18 Quick Block
Lvl 20 Shield of Reckoning

Now it's basically a Champion but with Legendary Weapon instead of Armor.

Now Wild Rogue with Druid

Lvl 4 Wild Shape
Lvl 6 Order Spell
Lvl 8 Form Control
Lvl 10 Thousand Faces
Lvl 12 Basic Spellcasting
Lvl 14 Expert Spellcasting
Lvl 16 Soaring Shape
Lvl 18 Master Spellcasting
Lvl 20 Elemental Shape

Now you can impersonate other people for a hour with Humanoid Form, being able to do a claw attack that inflicts persistent bleed damage, fly and resistance to some stuff, spellcasting gives some goodies like Vital Beacon, Wall of Stone and Pass without a Trace.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Ideally, you are looking for a class with strong non-feat features but lackluster feats that you don't mind skipping over for archetype feats.

Cleric is obviously a popular choice: Once you have spells and Divine Font, there seem to be a lot of underwhelming feats you can skip over. I assume Sorcerer and Wizard are somewhat similar while Bards and Druids seem to have more 'whelming' class feats...


Easy classes to do this with and still end up with a good build afterward would be the spellcasting classes as base. Except for multiclassing into Barbarian - that would run into problems with Rage either preventing spellcasting during combat entirely, or at least making it cost more actions.

I would be interested in seeing things that could all-in multiclass into Barbarian and be effective.

I am thinking maybe Champion. The champion reactions and shield block still work fine while in Rage. Lay on Hands would be relegated to out-of-combat, but that isn't terrible - especially since this wouldn't be even a backup healer build. Thematically I could see this working well combining a Redeemer Champion and a Spirit Instinct Barbarian to create a psychopomp assistant - an undead hunter.

Some other combinations that I think might work well: Alchemist multiclassing to Barbarian - Use alchemy out of combat and rage in combat. And maybe Rogue multiclassed into Barbarian. I haven't looked too deeply into that one.


pauljathome wrote:

I'm greatly enjoying my cleric of Gozreh/druid. At level 7 all his feats have been druid feats.

Thematically and mechanically it's a great mix.

Note - I dithered long and hard between cleric multiclassing into druid or druid multiclassing into cleric. Both would work well with the resulting character similar but also different.

Druid MC goes well with lots of other classes. I'm particularly fond of Wizard/Druid.


Rogue class feats are terrible. Everything else about them is incredible. Further, thief let's you use Dex as a fully operative primary stat, so you have a spare slot for a secondary stat along with Wis and Con. The double skill everything means you can easily accommodate the class type skills of whatever you're picking up. You have all master+ saves with canny acumen fortitude and legendary perception.

I think the strongest archetype is Bard. At level 12 you get to just Dirge of Doom into Dread Striker. You also get all kinds of cool utility spells, wands of manifold missiles, buffs, and healing.

Fighter is another good archetype. Double Slice gets you 2 attacks with no MAP to keep those sneak attacks rolling. AOO is obviously great. Twin Parry ups your survivability a good bit.

You can actually do both archetypes pretty cleanly with multi-talented into Bard at 9.

Sovereign Court

I like my sorcerer/halcyon speaker - gaining access to most of the spell lists fits in with my idea of a master spellcaster.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Fighter druid for wild shape is pretty cool, depending on who you ask. Its not perfect but definitely has its perks.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Gaulin wrote:
Fighter druid for wild shape is pretty cool, depending on who you ask. Its not perfect but definitely has its perks.

I've got a good friend who is doing this.

He's a lizardfolk slave forced to fight in arenas since a young age. He was raised in captivity among other iruxi prisoners by his shaman grandfather.

He picked up martial skills from his time in the arena (fighter class), and the ability to turn into dinosaurs from his grandfather (druid feats).


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm looking at going heavily into bard on my current Cleric, for Compositions. Access is far behind Bard, but I get the extra spellasting oomph and healing from being a Cleric.

I'm going to skip Bard spellcasting (other than picking up access to wands/staves/scrolls), but make sure to invest in all the stuff that let's me lean heavily on perform for multiple skill actions.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Occult Sorcerer/Bard could be fun, especially with the Spellbook Feat that bards get. Whole lot of spell slots with some inspiration; you basically become the best occult caster you can be.


Hmm, possibly Wizard whom MC’d into Bard. Pick up some support spellcasting to help more round out the list, and maybe go into the Enigma line of feats to double down on a high Int and Bardic Lore. ‘Dirge of Doom’ also helps with the spells hitting among other things.

Cleric whom MC’d into Sorcerer <Divine or Primal> for spellcasting and pick ‘Heal’ as a signature spell for all the heals. Possibly also pick up Champion later for ‘Healing Touch’ so you have a rechargeable heal as well. (The ‘Healbot McHealingson’ build.)


Siro wrote:


Cleric whom MC’d into Sorcerer <Divine or Primal> for spellcasting and pick ‘Heal’ as a signature spell for all the heals. Possibly also pick up Champion later for ‘Healing Touch’ so you have a rechargeable heal as well. (The ‘Healbot McHealingson’ build.)

I would say a cleric versatile font specialist with Divine Sorcerer, Heal & Harm as signature would be quite the terror against mooks, if a one trick pony!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Well I can't speak entirely to the in-play effectiveness of it, but there's the old classic.

Breakdown:
Ancestry: Wis, Cha
Background: Wis, Int
Class: Wis
Level 1: Wis, Int, Cha, ???
Base Class: Cleric
2: [Spellcasting] Dedication
4: Basic [Spellcasting 1] Spellcasting
6: [Spellcasting 1] archetype feat
8: [Spellcasting 2] Dedication
9 (Ancestry): Multitalented ([Spellcasting 3] Dedication)
10: Basic Wizard Spellcasting
12: Expert Druid Spellcasting
14: Basic Bard Spellcasting
16: Expert Wizard Spellcasting
18: Expert Bard Spellcasting
20: Master Wizard Spellcasting

Have to be Human or take Adopted Ancestry of course. Human helps get the exact stats you need. The exact order the dedications are taken only matters for the level 6 feat.
Wind up with 10th-level Legendary Divine spells, 8th-level Master Arcane spells (prioritizing this one because opposing lists seem like they'll give the most variety), and 6th level Expert in Primal and Occult spells.
If you advance all your mentals at every stat advancement level you wind up with 22 Wis, 20 Int, 20 Cha. You wind up with a total of 55 spell slots and 11 cantrips. Starting with Cleric is important because of Divine Font. If you wanted to put your Apex item into Charisma you can get another spell.


Rogue, Monk
lvl 2 dedication
lvl 4 monastic weaponry
lvl 10 flurry of blows
conditionless double (sneak) attack with one action with a reasonable choice of interesting weapons - and shuriken make a good ranged options if you have sneak attacks

and with all the other rogue feats invested it would make the closest thing to ninja that you can get at the moment

rogue, any blaster caster
you only need one rogue feat and you are set, you know which one I'm talking about...


I'm actually trying to figure out which combinations don't work. I'm sure some of them are subpar, but nothing seems unplayable. I think it makes sense to avoid redundant features. But even then some sorcerer/wizard combos I've seen look very good--at least on paper.


sorc/wizard combo at the very least grants additional spell slots, which is always nice to have
(and of course possibly multiple traditions)


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Doubling up can be nice because then you don't have to split your abilities as much, or risk dealing with low spell attacks/DCs from your secondary casting class.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Extroth wrote:
I'm actually trying to figure out which combinations don't work. I'm sure some of them are subpar, but nothing seems unplayable. I think it makes sense to avoid redundant features. But even then some sorcerer/wizard combos I've seen look very good--at least on paper.

I mentioned this slightly, but spellcaster/Barbarian doesn't work too well because you can't end your rage voluntarily and it prevents spellcasting. There is the Moment of Clarity feat, but it does cost an action. And if the spellcaster is the base class, you couldn't get the Moment of Clarity feat for a couple more levels after the dedication. So for at least two levels of play you have to choose whether to be a spellcaster for this combat or a martial character. You couldn't do both.

As far as I can see, that is the only combination that I would actually call 'bad'. Some others may be sub-optimal whether because they are a bit redundant, or because they require vastly different ability scores, or any number of other minor problems. But spellcaster/barbarian is actively stepping on your own toes.


breithauptclan wrote:
But spellcaster/barbarian is actively stepping on your own toes.

Well, I suppose so, but seeing that a Barbarian is a primary melee combatant, he will be hard pressed to find a situation where casting a spell is a better use of their actions then simply using their Barbarian abilities.

However, they, and every other melee-type, will get some mileage out of the buff spells (and utility of course). 2nd level heightened Longstrider last your whole workday for example. So while you can't be barbaric and casty at the same time, being propped up by the right spells makes a Barbarian even more brutal in combat. And you can even focus on that, because you won't be casting spells in a fight. So there is that.


Lycar wrote:
breithauptclan wrote:
But spellcaster/barbarian is actively stepping on your own toes.
Well, I suppose so, but seeing that a Barbarian is a primary melee combatant, he will be hard pressed to find a situation where casting a spell is a better use of their actions then simply using their Barbarian abilities.

I could see this argument for Barbarian primary class with spellcasting archetype. Pick up some utility spells for out of combat, and do some pre-buff or even first round buff spells before starting rage. I could see that working, but it would be a difficult build.

For Spellcaster primary with Barbarian archetype I don't see this working as much. Not even for an all-in archetype build. That one is a lot harder of a sell for me. You will have so many spells and spell slots and there are a finite amount of utility and pre-buff spells available. Plus the lessened amount of martial ability of the Barbarian archetype compared to the full Barbarian base class indicates to me that there are going to be plenty of times after you trigger rage that you are going to wish that you could fire off a spell.


I’m now kinda of wondering how a Main Barbarian and Alchemist multiclass would work out. A raging drinker so to speak. Hmm, three hands may be required.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Barbarian/alchemist would work, animal barb especially would work well as you don't need hands for weapons


Now i’m just thinking of a man taking a shot, sprouting horns, then running around goring people. I’m not sure if I’m ok with it, but I do like it....


Siro wrote:
Now i’m just thinking of a man taking a shot, sprouting horns, then running around goring people. I’m not sure if I’m ok with it, but I do like it....

Drunken Master is no longer a Monk martial art style.


breithauptclan wrote:
For Spellcaster primary with Barbarian archetype I don't see this working as much. Not even for an all-in archetype build. That one is a lot harder of a sell for me. You will have so many spells and spell slots and there are a finite amount of utility and pre-buff spells available. Plus the lessened amount of martial ability of the Barbarian archetype compared to the full Barbarian base class indicates to me that there are going to be plenty of times after you trigger rage that you are going to wish that you could fire off a spell.

For this one, you should probably play them as primary casters, who have some very nasty surprises waiting for anyone who gets into their face and expects a squishy target. There is the to-hit issue of course, but that can not be helped (and neither should id IMHO).

Wounded Rage would be very fitting. Too bad it only happens at lv. 8+ though. Furious Finish would be more of a 'Hail Mary' maneuver, but if that strike lands, it may make all the difference. Basically, use the Barbarian's ability to 'flip out and kill people', maybe with your own teeth, to have an emergency boost of martial prowess when your magic won't cut it, so to speak.

Of course that isn't a caster/barbarian multiclass so much as a caster + flavourful extra abilities.

Liberty's Edge

4 people marked this as a favorite.
breithauptclan wrote:
Siro wrote:
Now i’m just thinking of a man taking a shot, sprouting horns, then running around goring people. I’m not sure if I’m ok with it, but I do like it....
Drunken Master is no longer a Monk martial art style.

It is, however, going to be available again in the APG.


Barbarian/Witch looks like it will be a promising and interesting combo if Cackle remains the same.

Barbarian for Thrown Weapon builds. Only need Raging Thrower. Best with Ranger i think, but can make some rather interesting combos with any other martial.


Gaulin wrote:
Barbarian/alchemist would work, animal barb especially would work well as you don't need hands for weapons

I suspect a dragon barbarian/alchemist could be a more damaging bomber than an alchemist main class. Better proficiency and weapon specialization go a long way.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ventnor wrote:
Occult Sorcerer/Bard could be fun, especially with the Spellbook Feat that bards get. Whole lot of spell slots with some inspiration; you basically become the best occult caster you can be.

In fact, let me sketch out a quick sketch of a Sorcerer/All Bard multiclass build looks like. This is assuming your Sorcerer picked one of the Occult bloodlines, like Aberrant or Hag.

Level 2: Bard Dedication (Polymath Muse)
Level 4: Basic Bard Spellcasting
Level 6: Basic Muse’s Whispers (Esoteric Polymath)
Level 8: Inspirational Performance
Level 10: Occult Breadth
Level 12: Expert Bard Spellcasting
Level 14: Advanced Muse’s Whispers (Versatile Signature)
Level 16: Advanced Muse’s Whispers (Dirge of Doom)
Level 18: Master Bard Spellcasting
Level 20: Advanced Muse’s Whispers (Quickened Casting)

So, what does all this give us? Well...
4+2 Level 1 spell slots
4+2 Level 2 spell slots
4+2 Level 3 spell slots
4+2 Level 4 spell slots
4+2 Level 5 spell slots
4+2 Level 6 spell slots
4+1 Level 7 spell slots
4+1 Level 8 spell slots
4 Level 9 spell slots
1 Level 10 spell slot

All said and told, that’s 45 occult spells you can cast per day. And your spell selection is remarkably flexible because of the Polymath Muse feats. And when you run out of those, you still have composition cantrip to fall back on.

Kind of a lackluster capstone, sure, but all archetype was the parameters. If allowed one Sorcerer feat, I’d probably go with Bloodline Perfection for one extra level 10 spell slot, but that’s just me.

Sovereign Court

What are some of the better feats by class worth making a dipp for?

Bard Inspirational Performance

Champion: Healing Touch, Champions Reaction

Fighter: Double Slice, Knockdown

Rouge: Skill Mastery

What are some gems to be added to the list?


Lycar wrote:
Well, I suppose so, but seeing that a Barbarian is a primary melee combatant, he will be hard pressed to find a situation where casting a spell is a better use of their actions then simply using their Barbarian abilities.

The Spirit Barbarian/MC Cleric in our playtest sessions took all the cleric spellcasting feats and prepared "Heal" in every single spell slot every day, mostly using it to patch people up out of combat.


Barbarian can cast spells without the verbal component, so stuff like Lay on Hands, Force Bolt, Tentacular Limbs and a lot of Domains can be used during Rage.

It's hilarious to think about the agressive lay on hands from a Barbarian and it make Champion Multiclassed in to Barbarian kinda fine too, because their increased Armor Proficiency and Heavy Armor makes them have Fighter AC even when raging with the Giant Instinct.


Flurry Ranger with Bear Support companion MC'd with Rogue to get a little bit of sneak attack (since the bear will often be flanking) and better skill progression.


Ventnor wrote:
Ventnor wrote:
Occult Sorcerer/Bard could be fun, especially with the Spellbook Feat that bards get. Whole lot of spell slots with some inspiration; you basically become the best occult caster you can be.

In fact, let me sketch out a quick sketch of a Sorcerer/All Bard multiclass build looks like. This is assuming your Sorcerer picked one of the Occult bloodlines, like Aberrant or Hag.

Level 2: Bard Dedication (Polymath Muse)
Level 4: Basic Bard Spellcasting
Level 6: Basic Muse’s Whispers (Esoteric Polymath)
Level 8: Inspirational Performance
Level 10: Occult Breadth
Level 12: Expert Bard Spellcasting
Level 14: Advanced Muse’s Whispers (Versatile Signature)
Level 16: Advanced Muse’s Whispers (Dirge of Doom)
Level 18: Master Bard Spellcasting
Level 20: Advanced Muse’s Whispers (Quickened Casting)

First good job with the challenge. I can see this being a good and fun build even without the archetype limitation.

To break with the archetype limitation for a second, replacing ‘Inspirational Performance’ (as Dirge of Doom would be the composition of choice a good amount of time) for ‘Occult Evolution’ and replacing ‘Advanced Muse’s Whispers (Quickened Casting)’ for ‘Greater Mental Evolution’ would give the build another swapable spell which could be added to the spellbook (limited to mental Occult spell) and an additional 10 spells to the repertoire, to play even more to the ultimate Occult caster.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
breithauptclan wrote:
Siro wrote:
Now i’m just thinking of a man taking a shot, sprouting horns, then running around goring people. I’m not sure if I’m ok with it, but I do like it....
Drunken Master is no longer a Monk martial art style.
It is, however, going to be available again in the APG.

Clarifying.

Drunken Master isn't just a Monk martial art style.


breithauptclan wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
breithauptclan wrote:
Siro wrote:
Now i’m just thinking of a man taking a shot, sprouting horns, then running around goring people. I’m not sure if I’m ok with it, but I do like it....
Drunken Master is no longer a Monk martial art style.
It is, however, going to be available again in the APG.

Clarifying.

Drunken Master isn't just a Monk martial art style.

....it’s a lifestyle (ok, I’ll go away now :p)

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Advice / Best "all out" multiclass archetype combos? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.