What books to come in 2021?

[Mantriel]

I bought every 2e book so far and I am loving them. (I have some quibbles with the AP, but nothing I can't fix). I am looking forward to the Bestiary 2, Gamemastery Guide, the Absalom Guide and the Advanced Players Guide,...
but I was wondering what will the future bring.

The fourth Lost Omens book doesn't really appeal to me (Legends: with High lvl NPCs) and to be honest after the Absalom AP our gaming group will have more than enough material to play for several years without adding anything new (well except for house rules and homebrew ofc.).

What do you think what books will come after Gencon?

Except for the Planar Guide I can't even imagine what our group might need.

[Staffan Johansson]

I'd be very surprised if there aren't player-focused books in the vein of Ultimate Combat and Ultimate Magic coming down the line. And of course more Bestiaries.

Personally, I'd rather see more catch-all books (like the APG) that have a bit of everything in them, because I think that will lead to higher quality. Historically, not everything in the Ultimate line (or the Complete line that preceded it for 3.5e) was top-notch quality, because when your design mandate is "give me 256 pages of magic stuff", some of those 256 pages will be crap. But if you instead have "give me 256 pages of your best stuff", or perhaps instead 160 pages, that's more likely to be higher quality.

[Gorbacz]

Legends isn't a NPC stat book. It's a book about player-side stuff related to those NPCs you can pick/acquire/learn, from what I understand.

[Rysky]

Gorbacz wrote:

Legends isn't a NPC stat book. It's a book about player-side stuff related to those NPCs you can pick/acquire/learn, from what I understand.

Yep yep.

It’s a lore book with (maybe) some mechanics for players and GMs. Maybe.

[Mantriel]

Rysky wrote:

Yep yep.

It’s a lore book with (maybe) some mechanics for players and GMs. Maybe.

Gorbacz wrote:

Legends isn't a NPC stat book. It's a book about player-side stuff related to those NPCs you can pick/acquire/learn, from what I understand.

Any guesses what books will come after that?

[Rysky]

Bestiary 3, maybe another Advanced Guide.

[Gorbacz]

A Bestiary each year.

A Book with Guns In It, unless APG does that.

An Occult book. Pretty much guaranteed given how OA was popular.

Ultimate Equipment. That's kind of a no-brainer, really.

Apart from that, I think it's going to be mostly Golarion hardcovers with some player-side stuff sprinkled in them.

[Mantriel]

Thanks for the replies! Just what I was looking for.

I don't see anything obvious missing (beyond those already mentioned). I guess they will make "Horror Adventures", "Ship Adventures", "Undersea Adventures", "Underdark Adventures" (I forgot the Golarion name of it) etc., all tied to an AP or something, with additional Golarion Lost Omens books (Cheliax Book, and "Shining Kingdoms" book etc.) to support it.

Well I'm game. I really can't imagine that my gaming group would ever need those, but as a collector of 2e it sounds interesting.

Monster Codex and "Planar Adventures" are the two books I am missing now the most as a GM (beside GM Guide, APG and Bestiary 2 ofc).

[Rysky]

I would love a Darklands book, as well as books on different continents.

I loved all the Codex books in P1.

[Albatoonoe]

I'm a sucker for alternate rules and subsystems, myself. Ultimate Campaign and Unchained are my favorite books for PF1, so more that would be welcome. I also wouldn't mind a genre book with rules and options to fit certain ideas (which could encompass the Tech guide and Horror adventures

[keftiu]

What I expect: a line of lore and option books for each meta-region, likely paired with an AP each.

What I want: books on other continents.

[RiverMesa]

What might be interesting (and what Paizo themselves likely seem interested in) is books that don't have 1st edition counterparts - they have gone on record saying they don't just want to keep re-hashing the same stuff with 2e-compatible rules, and want to start doing truly new things as well.

It's fair to say some more stuff that people have come to expect out of Pathfinder are still coming (guns, psychic magic, some other popular classes, ancestries, magic items, equipment etc.), but it'd be cool to start seeing some truly fresh things, particularly in the core and LO lines.

What I personally expect to happen is something that roughly mirrors the 4th edition "_______ Power" line, mixed with some of the 1st edition Player Companions - with the way the magical traditions are set up, it would seem like a great way to flesh them out with cool new options - spells, magic items, feats, themed creatures, archetypes...
(To a degree this might be what Lost Omens Gods & Magic is already, but I was thinking more crunch-oriented.)

[Staffan Johansson]

keftiu wrote:

What I expect: a line of lore and option books for each meta-region, likely paired with an AP each.

That would be neat. Tying back to my previous posts, I'd rather see a Saga Lands book that covers both the lore and assorted player options (Grey Maidens, Varisian tattoo magic, Linnorm Kings barbarian totems, Szcarni rogues) appropriate to the region rather than having one magic book, one fighting book, one thievin' book, and so on. That's probably a better idea than a book of random stuff (along the lines of 5e's Xanathar's Guide or, to go back a long way, the Companion series for Rolemaster), which was my idea.

The main issue with mixing lore and options that way is that it's easy for the options to crowd out the lore (for example, see many of the 3e Forgotten Realms books).

[Themetricsystem]

HOPEFULLY - At least a pair of 3 part Adventure Paths. While a full 6-book run for an adventure gives for breadth and scope for a story I have NEVER in the last decade+ been able to reliably play in, or run the same group of players through an entire AP UNTIL Against the Aeon Throne.

Doing this in Starfinder was probably an experiment on Paizos part I assume, and I have no idea what their sales for that format were compared to a 6 part book but if the Golem could squeeze out at least one 3 part AP for Second Edition I would be pumped.

[Ezekieru]

I just want a book to come out for Gunslinger, either as an Archetype or a full-blown class. We know it isn't coming via the APG, so hopefully the next GenCon release in 2021 (or maybe a book before then, who knows) will have that along with a ton of gun options.

Also would like to see more modules like Fall of Plaguestone. The APs are great, but not a lot of people can afford to do a level 1-20 AP, since it'd take years to complete. Having more modules at varying levels would do a lot to bring in new people into the hobby.

[Staffan Johansson]

Ezekieru wrote:

Also would like to see more modules like Fall of Plaguestone. The APs are great, but not a lot of people can afford to do a level 1-20 AP, since it'd take years to complete. Having more modules at varying levels would do a lot to bring in new people into the hobby.

The problem with one-off modules is that they generally don't sell very well. That was, in fact, a very large part of the reason for the OGL in the first place: adventures don't make much money but they serve as marketing for the actual game, so out-source adventure making to the community where those who can live with lower profit margins can do that.

Paizo figured out how to make adventures profitable: you don't sell adventures as such, you sell a whole campaign. That's also the way Wizards have gone, though they're selling theirs in big hardbacks instead of serializing them.

With an AP, you're selling a whole campaign package (albeit split into six chunks). You know that each part will fit in with the other parts, and you can do some longer-term planning so you'll plant an NPC in part 2 who will have some payoff in part 4, or somesuch. You know what context each part will be in when you write it. You can have PCs fight ninjas in a viking hall and it will make perfect sense, because that's what the adventure has been leading up to.

With a module, you don't have that luxury. If you make a module with a "dungeon" that's the above-mentioned viking hall, it is only useful for a very small number of campaigns - you need a campaign that's set in viking lands, where ninjas have a reason to intervene, and that also happens to be at the appropriate level.

Another option is to make the adventures "gig-based" - basically, PCs get a job from an NPC or group, and the adventure is about doing that job. This however, requires a campaign context that works well with that kind of gig work. Shadowrun is pretty much based around that sort of thing, and my understanding is that it's also the basis for Pathfinder Society stuff. But it's not the way many campaigns are run.

The third option is to make bland adventures that can fit into any campaign, but those are boring.

[Ezekieru]

Staffan Johansson wrote:

Ezekieru wrote:

Also would like to see more modules like Fall of Plaguestone. The APs are great, but not a lot of people can afford to do a level 1-20 AP, since it'd take years to complete. Having more modules at varying levels would do a lot to bring in new people into the hobby.

The problem with one-off modules is that they generally don't sell very well. That was, in fact, a very large part of the reason for the OGL in the first place: adventures don't make much money but they serve as marketing for the actual game, so out-source adventure making to the community where those who can live with lower profit margins can do that.

Paizo figured out how to make adventures profitable: you don't sell adventures as such, you sell a whole campaign. That's also the way Wizards have gone, though they're selling theirs in big hardbacks instead of serializing them.

With an AP, you're selling a whole campaign package (albeit split into six chunks). You know that each part will fit in with the other parts, and you can do some longer-term planning so you'll plant an NPC in part 2 who will have some payoff in part 4, or somesuch. You know what context each part will be in when you write it. You can have PCs fight ninjas in a viking hall and it will make perfect sense, because that's what the adventure has been leading up to.

With a module, you don't have that luxury. If you make a module with a "dungeon" that's the above-mentioned viking hall, it is only useful for a very small number of campaigns - you need a campaign that's set in viking lands, where ninjas have a reason to intervene, and that also happens to be at the appropriate level.

Another option is to make the adventures "gig-based" - basically, PCs get a job from an NPC or group, and the adventure is about doing that job. This however, requires a campaign context that works well with that kind of gig work. Shadowrun is pretty much based around that sort of thing, and my understanding is that it's also the basis for Pathfinder Society stuff....

That's implying that the modules should be a part of a larger campaign, and not a self-contained story to run. That's the nice part about Fall of Plaguestone: It's a self-contained story for Levels 1-4, and after that it's done. Can you continue off of it? Sure. But if you wanted to make new characters and do another module, that's possible too.

That's what I mean about the benefit of modules. They AREN'T epic-long campaigns. And for those with busy lives who wants to have a few different adventures that get completed before a group falls apart, these modules offer them the experience they want.

And whether they're profitable, it depends on how good the adventure itself is. From my perspective, Fall of Plaguestone has been talked about and played as much as Age of Ashes has. So I hope that'll prompt Paizo to try more self-contained story modules like it, at least once a year.

[The-Magic-Sword]

I'm actually a little concerned about this because while I love all the new content, I don't want the game to bloat too fast. I want it to have a long shelf life (which, in fairness, Pathfinder 1e lasted near on a decade, and that was *with* 3.5e compatibility, so maybe it just isn't a problem.)

[Sporkedup]

The-Magic-Sword wrote:

I'm actually a little concerned about this because while I love all the new content, I don't want the game to bloat too fast. I want it to have a long shelf life (which, in fairness, Pathfinder 1e lasted near on a decade, and that was *with* 3.5e compatibility, so maybe it just isn't a problem.)

I think Uncommon and Rare traits really help on that. Players can't expand faster than GMs anymore.

[Reziburno25]

I perfer first for 1 side module and 1 main module one AP like fall of plagustone and ash of ash for each meta region. Region with Varisa in it I hope be last of ones covered so it give other regions a chance to shine. So considering Absalom getting two that mean another 8 main AP and 8 single module AP. Also wouldnt mind region specfic books for them aswell that cover the lore, add some mechanics and features. If guns be added throw their mechanics and such in Meta region book they come from.

[oholoko]

I want a book that just has feats for multiple classes/skills to use in different ocasions and to make a few archetypes viable for multiple classes. Just silly options that are made with getting multiclass,archetypes and other silly things in mind. Maybe a feat that gives easier access to red mantis, one that gives you some ability to combat undead for other classes that aren't paladins and clerics.
Maybe even a few more universal heritages.

[Staffan Johansson]

Reziburno25 wrote:

Region with Varisa in it I hope be last of ones covered so it give other regions a chance to shine.

I can see both sides on that point. On one hand: yeah, there's been a lot of stuff on Varisia in PF1 - four entire APs plus being the starting point for at least two more. But on the other hand, the Saga Lands have also seen some massive changes, including a new nation ruled by two runelords!

Also, some of the other regions have had almost as much coverage as the Saga Lands. Saga Lands had five APs (the four Varisian ones + Reign of Winter), but the Eye of Dread has had four and the Broken Lands and Old Cheliax have both had three. The least-represented in PF1 were Absalom (which is being fixed with the next two APs taking place there) and the Impossible Lands (Nex, Mana Wastes, Geb, Shattered Range, and Jalmeray), which both have zero. Second-least are the Mwangi Expanse (Serpent's Skull) and Shining Kingdoms (War for the Crown) with one each.

Looking over that again, what's really over-represented isn't so much the Saga Lands as it is Avistan, having had 16/24 APs (and really more, because there are three APs I didn't count as any one region due to wide-ranging travel, but they're all set to a large degree in Avistan). But within Avistan, the APs are spread out quite a bit, with a fair bit of focus on Varisia and Cheliax.

So all in all, all four of the primary focus regions in PF1 have had some major changes happen, to a large degree as a result of previous APs. These changes all invalidate some portion of previously published material

The Saga Lands have, as mentioned, gotten a whole new nation biting off northern Varisia and part of the Land of the Linnorm Kings. You also have new management in Irrisen and Korvosa.

Old Cheliax has had another province go independent, now called Ravounel.

The Eye of Dread had the return of Tar-Baphon which included the destruction of Lastwall. You also had the new hobgoblin nation of Oprak.

In the Broken Lands, the Worldwound has closed, and the Technic League has fallen in Numeria.

[AnimatedPaper]

I think an Impossible Lands themed year, with some version of gunslingers, psychic magic, elemental monks, and summoners all wandering in would be pretty cool.

I’m not sure what through line all of those elements would have besides “Impossible Lands”, but I’m sure Paizo can think of something.

[Vic Wertz]

Gorbacz wrote:

A Book with Guns In It

Like this one?

[Rysky]

Vic Wertz wrote:

Gorbacz wrote:

A Book with Guns In It

Like this one?

Or the SE of the anniversary edition of RoTRL (yaknow, the one that deals 1d4 bashing and slashing damage as well)

[Hmm]

Gorbacz wrote:

Legends isn't a NPC stat book. It's a book about player-side stuff related to those NPCs you can pick/acquire/learn, from what I understand.

I am understandably biased because I worked on this one, but I hope you give it a chance. I loved working on this book.

Hmm

[Rysky]

Hmm wrote:

Gorbacz wrote:

Legends isn't a NPC stat book. It's a book about player-side stuff related to those NPCs you can pick/acquire/learn, from what I understand.

I am understandably biased because I worked on this one, but I hope you give it a chance. I loved working on this book.

Hmm

Huzzah!

[Gorbacz]

Hmm wrote:

Gorbacz wrote:

Legends isn't a NPC stat book. It's a book about player-side stuff related to those NPCs you can pick/acquire/learn, from what I understand.

I am understandably biased because I worked on this one, but I hope you give it a chance. I loved working on this book.

Hmm

Oh, I'm very interested in Legends, it's something new and I'm curious how will such unusual format play out!

[Dubious Scholar]

AnimatedPaper wrote:

I think an Impossible Lands themed year, with some version of gunslingers, psychic magic, elemental monks, and summoners all wandering in would be pretty cool.

I’m not sure what through line all of those elements would have besides “Impossible Lands”, but I’m sure Paizo can think of something.

I think an AP could bring Nex, Geb, Alkenstar, and Jalmeray into a plot pretty easily. Nex and Geb war threatens to flare up, Alkenstar is caught in the middle, and representatives are meeting in Jalmeray as a neutral ground. Predictably multiple factions are getting involved, intrigue abounds, and things eventually lead into a run into Nex's demiplane or something.

[Mantriel]

Hmm wrote:

Gorbacz wrote:

Legends isn't a NPC stat book. It's a book about player-side stuff related to those NPCs you can pick/acquire/learn, from what I understand.

I am understandably biased because I worked on this one, but I hope you give it a chance. I loved working on this book.

Hmm

Could you tell something about it? I understand you have NDAs and when the book comes out "Paizo Blog", "Pathinder Fridays" and "Know Direction" ...

(is there anyone else, another blogger/vlogger with whom I am not familiar with? I'm kinda new to Pathfinder/Paizo.)

...will promote it in detail, but if some of the Paizo higher ups could give us some description (like: "1/3 crunch, 1/3 Golarion fluff, 1/3 generic fluff, or something similar) would be nice.
If it is 100% Golarion fluff I will pass.

All I know it is about NPCs, which I really need like the Monster Codex, but I really don't need something like the "Pathfinder Society Primer" or the Organisations from the Lost Omens Character Guide (Although I must admit, the Hellknights are really cool, I love to use them. And the Knights of Lastwall are great aswell).

[Staffan Johansson]

My understanding is that Legends will be similar to the archetypes presented in Lost Omens Character Guide, except instead of being based on organizations, they're based around characters. And not limited to archetypes, but also including spells, gear, and similar things (LOCG had some of that, but more).

So, let's say the book has a section on the Black Triune ruling Nidal. It would not have stats for these, but it would have information about their shadow magic, relics they can "loan" to characters, and things like that. Legends is part of the Lost Omens product line, so I would expect everything in it to be steeped in Golarion lore, though you could probably file off the serial numbers on many of the things and adapt them to other settings.

[Mantriel]

Staffan Johansson wrote:

My understanding is that Legends will be similar to the archetypes presented in Lost Omens Character Guide, except instead of being based on organizations, they're based around characters. And not limited to archetypes, but also including spells, gear, and similar things (LOCG had some of that, but more).

So, let's say the book has a section on the Black Triune ruling Nidal. It would not have stats for these, but it would have information about their shadow magic, relics they can "loan" to characters, and things like that. Legends is part of the Lost Omens product line, so I would expect everything in it to be steeped in Golarion lore, though you could probably file off the serial numbers on many of the things and adapt them to other settings.

Thanks for the info! I would love to read your source(s). (Know Direction Luis Loza interview? I haven't watched it yet).

If it is more crunch than fluff, it is more than welcome. If it is the other way around (more fluff than crunch), I really don't need it.

IMHO splitting up the Lost Omens books into 3 smaller "booklets" and all hard cover made it way to expansive for me. I am more than happy to skip one or two. (I guess the Absalom book will be in the Lost Omens line, I hope it will be as awesome as Ptolus was).

[Ezekieru]

Mantriel wrote:

Staffan Johansson wrote:

My understanding is that Legends will be similar to the archetypes presented in Lost Omens Character Guide, except instead of being based on organizations, they're based around characters. And not limited to archetypes, but also including spells, gear, and similar things (LOCG had some of that, but more).

So, let's say the book has a section on the Black Triune ruling Nidal. It would not have stats for these, but it would have information about their shadow magic, relics they can "loan" to characters, and things like that. Legends is part of the Lost Omens product line, so I would expect everything in it to be steeped in Golarion lore, though you could probably file off the serial numbers on many of the things and adapt them to other settings.

Thanks for the info! I would love to read your source(s). (Know Direction Luis Loza interview? I haven't watched it yet).

If it is more crunch than fluff, it is more than welcome. If it is the other way around (more fluff than crunch), I really don't need it.

IMHO splitting up the Lost Omens books into 3 smaller "booklets" and all hard cover made it way to expansive for me. I am more than happy to skip one or two. (I guess the Absalom book will be in the Lost Omens line, I hope it will be as awesome as Ptolus was).

Thankfully, you can find most of the mechanically-relevant content on the online SRDs, like AoN or EasyTools. They tend to come out a week or so after the street date, so if you're short on money and only want the mechanical stuff, there's that.

[Mantriel]

Ezekieru wrote:

Thankfully, you can find most of the mechanically-relevant content on the online SRDs, like AoN or EasyTools. They tend to come out a week or so after the street date, so if you're short on money and only want the mechanical stuff, there's that.

I am happy to buy the books if I will use it. It costs almost as much for me to print it out as buying it and having a cover (hard or soft) is always a plus.

None of my players speak English well enough that there might be a chance that they go to Pathfinderwiki or Archive of Nethys (I am not familiar with EasyTools) to tweak their characters or that they immerse themselves in the lore.

If I don't buy it, it "doesn't exist".
If I don't retell it (the story and the lore I mean) it doesn't exist.

Which means I will probably never read through AoN just to find a rule, that I probably will be able to adjudicate ad hoc anyway.

[Sporkedup]

Mantriel wrote:

Ezekieru wrote:

Thankfully, you can find most of the mechanically-relevant content on the online SRDs, like AoN or EasyTools. They tend to come out a week or so after the street date, so if you're short on money and only want the mechanical stuff, there's that.

I am happy to buy the books if I will use it.

This is me as well! If it will never interact with my table, I really shouldn't go for it. But if it can factor in at all, well, I never bought any PF1 books so now is the time for significant investment. :)

[Luis Loza]

Mantriel wrote:

...will promote it in detail, but if some of the Paizo higher ups could give us some description (like: "1/3 crunch, 1/3 Golarion fluff, 1/3 generic fluff, or something similar) would be nice.

If it is 100% Golarion fluff I will pass.

About 1/4 of the book will include crunch, though the majority of this crunch is tied to the characters featured in the book. The rest of the book is Golarion-specific flavor.

[Mantriel]

Luis Loza wrote:

Mantriel wrote:

...will promote it in detail, but if some of the Paizo higher ups could give us some description (like: "1/3 crunch, 1/3 Golarion fluff, 1/3 generic fluff, or something similar) would be nice.

If it is 100% Golarion fluff I will pass.

About 1/4 of the book will include crunch, though the majority of this crunch is tied to the characters featured in the book. The rest of the book is Golarion-specific flavor.

Thanks!

I love your work, keep it up! :)

[Sporkedup]

Luis Loza wrote:

Mantriel wrote:

...will promote it in detail, but if some of the Paizo higher ups could give us some description (like: "1/3 crunch, 1/3 Golarion fluff, 1/3 generic fluff, or something similar) would be nice.

If it is 100% Golarion fluff I will pass.

About 1/4 of the book will include crunch, though the majority of this crunch is tied to the characters featured in the book. The rest of the book is Golarion-specific flavor.

That's excellent to hear! Exactly the kind of ratio that can keep it in my plans.

Haha, I'm so far ahead of myself, of course. I have the Gods & Magic book in the next week or two to look forward to very immediately!

[Harles]

Mine is more of a wish list.
I want adventures: stand alones,short APs, 3rd party releases like the "olden days."
Then stuff to run campaigns that aren't set on Golarion or aren't "typcal fantasy" (so likely also 3rd party). Psionics, horror, steampunk, Oriental adventures, etc.

[Vallarthis]

There is also an option intermediate between 3-level modules like Fall of Plaguestone and the three-part adventure path, that being the 6-level modules like the upcoming 128-page Dead God's Hand, or previously, Ire of the Storm (I just checked and it's 5 levels, but only 64 pages, which is some high-density adventure). These are effectively two-part APs. I quite like these, as it is long enough to feel worthwhile to really get invested in a character, while short enough to hopefully get through it before life dissolves the group, as so often happens.
Paizo seems unsure about trying more 3-part APs (understandably so: if it ain't broke don't fix it, especially when it's your bread and butter), but are demonstrably okay adding these 6-level adventures on the side. I just hope they do some mid-level ones, instead of always starting at 1st.

[Staffan Johansson]

Mantriel wrote:

Thanks for the info! I would love to read your source(s). (Know Direction Luis Loza interview? I haven't watched it yet).

It's speculation based on the information in the discussion thread on the product page. There it says that it won't have stats for the movers and shakers, but it will have lore about them and game mechanical stuff you can get through association in one way or another.

[Medriev]

Sporkedup wrote:

Luis Loza wrote:

Mantriel wrote:

...will promote it in detail, but if some of the Paizo higher ups could give us some description (like: "1/3 crunch, 1/3 Golarion fluff, 1/3 generic fluff, or something similar) would be nice.

If it is 100% Golarion fluff I will pass.

About 1/4 of the book will include crunch, though the majority of this crunch is tied to the characters featured in the book. The rest of the book is Golarion-specific flavor.

That's excellent to hear! Exactly the kind of ratio that can keep it in my plans.

Haha, I'm so far ahead of myself, of course. I have the Gods & Magic book in the next week or two to look forward to very immediately!

There's a Know Direction episode from last week where Luis Loza talks about the book in more detail and it sounds awesome!!

[Haffrung]

Vallarthis wrote:

These are effectively two-part APs. I quite like these, as it is long enough to feel worthwhile to really get invested in a character, while short enough to hopefully get through it before life dissolves the group, as so often happens.

Only a fraction of campaigns make it to level 10, let alone level 20. With even an incredibly popular AP like RotRL, the great majority of discussion on the forums is about the first two chapters. Which is why the insistence on the level 1-20 campaign as the default has always puzzled me. Why is the default something only a fraction of groups will ever play to completion?

Vallarthis wrote:

Paizo seems unsure about trying more 3-part APs (understandably so: if it ain't broke don't fix it, especially when it's your bread and butter)

APs are Paizo's bread and butter, and from what I understand half the people who buy them don't actively play an RPG. So I suppose for that share of the market, whether the campaign will be played to completion is irrelevant.

[CorvusMask]

Well part of reason why they WEREN'T default is that there isn't enough 1-20 level content :p Hard to play until level 20 when majority of published campaigns don't go there.

There is also that new format of APs in 2e means its more likely for PCs to actually get to level 20 because 1) game balance seems to be better than in 1e 2) game speed is faster, so leveling up there takes faster 3) game doesn't get as hard to remember everything you can do now.

There is also that its kinda hard to say how many groups get inevitable dissolved by life and which don't. At least online groups have easier time running consistently for years :p

[Dave2]

Since what Paizo has called the 4 pillar book will be out core, bestiary, game mastery guide, and advanced players guide will all be out and this was mirror of PF1 release my guess is new books. We will also have 2nd bestiary. But, I think schedule is 2 rulebooks and bestiary. Since Paizo has said they are not locked into PF1 books other than first 4 could be something new.

[bugleyman]

I'm late to the party, but I would be rather surprised if a 2E Beginner Box doesn't make it out in 2020.

[The Gleeful Grognard]

bugleyman wrote:

I'm late to the party, but I would be rather surprised if a 2E Beginner Box doesn't make it out in 2020.

I wouldn't, they made it quite clear that they didn't think it was needed in august/September of last year. Meaning that it likely won't be worked on until midway through this year at best...

I wager we won't be getting a beginner box until 2021-2022 sadly, a mistep but with the windup time required for such a project I really doubt it is coming this year).

[graeme mcdougall]

Vallarthis wrote:

There is also an option intermediate between 3-level modules like Fall of Plaguestone and the three-part adventure path, that being the 6-level modules like the upcoming 128-page Dead God's Hand, or previously, Ire of the Storm (I just checked and it's 5 levels, but only 64 pages, which is some high-density adventure). These are effectively two-part APs. I quite like these, as it is long enough to feel worthwhile to really get invested in a character, while short enough to hopefully get through it before life dissolves the group, as so often happens.

Paizo seems unsure about trying more 3-part APs (understandably so: if it ain't broke don't fix it, especially when it's your bread and butter), but are demonstrably okay adding these 6-level adventures on the side. I just hope they do some mid-level ones, instead of always starting at 1st.

Ire of the Storm is also a truly excellent adventure - absolutely perfect mix of RP, combat, hexcrawl, sub-systems woven together.

These mini-campaigns are my favourite format, I've already pre-ordered Dead God's Hand to go with Ire, Dragon's Demand, Emerald Spire etc

[GM Stargin]

Honestly in the APs I have read it's not very hard to create on ramps and off ramps of your own to shorten the AP. Sometimes an off ramp is as easy as making the book boss the real big bad of the campaign and deleting whatever plot hook they would have dropped to lead the players onto the next volume. Other times you can delevel the final enemy and just have them at an earlier location to beat up.

Heck sometimes removing a book makes for a significantly different feel or a more cohesive story. Both Kingmaker and War for the Crown can be very politically grounded stories if the supernatural final conflicts just don't happen. The first two books of Iron Gods is more than enough for a low level gritty techno Conan adventure.

[Quandary]

I don't think "windup time" or development time of Beginner Box itself is why it's not more of a priority, it's because developing more broader content especially including GMAG and APG and more Bestiaries is much bigger of one. If the "full" game is only Core, it's already relatively simple so a BB is not really the most impactful way they can extend game. Lack of Bestiary content is major impediment for sandbox games, and it would even be highly useful to Paizo themselves for AP and adventure modules. If there isn't that deeper content to support people running games, the attaction of the system will ultimately be more limited... just adding a BB doesn't really grow the overall attraction factor in absense of that deeper content, IMHO. Once a 2nd Bestiary is out of the way, more APs and adventure modules including PFS are up and running, then BB is certainly legitimate offering to consider. Another factor is that I think the Core Rules themselves now have alot better guidelines for beginner players, reducing a BB's 'additional impact' to sell and establish the system. This isn't really novel, look at the early expansions for basically any other RPG system, deepening core system is priority not making cut-down kiddy version while neglecting core system support.