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Afraid the Paizo people have already confirmed this has traditional level progression and doesn't go to level 20. A level 11 adventure for book 4 fits with this IIRC. It would be good if 1-20 became the standard and I'm sure they have said this will be the aim with PF2 APs.
I'd be interested if you can share them.
I do get that we reach the same end point but if that's the case isn't this a rule change to solve a problem that doesn't exist? It certainly seems that way to me. Would love to hear from the Paizo people what the rationale was for switching to this system.
I agree with Reckless that this is very disappointing and that it is something we have every right to express our disappointment about here. I also agree that customer service / shipping issues are rare for Paizo but I am concerned that of the perhaps half a dozen issues I have experienced in my 15 years or more of dealing with the company, at least three of those have been this year. I am concerned that the company is overextended with Starfinder and the PF Playtest landing so close together and that this is impacting on the otherwise outstanding customer service. With shipping costs to the UK being so high and customs charges sometimes being levied on top (nothing to do with Paizo obviously) I am already considering how many of my subscriptions I can realistically maintain and this month's problems, first with Playtest pre-orders and now with subscription shipping are making me think. In the end, I will probably see how the next couple of months goes but I am not in a good place with Paizo at the moment.
Glad someone started a thread on this as the new XP system has been niggling at me since I first got the books. Why do we have to look up where the encounter sits relative to the party (which, as someone points out above could have varying levels) and then split XP based on relative difficulty? What's wrong with adding up the XP values of the monsters / traps in the encounter (which should are in their stat blocks in 1E) and splitting it between the party? I appreciate the maths needs some thinking about to make sure level progression is fairly steady but this game has nearly twenty years of work behind that sort of system (if you just start from 3E) so why change it. Doesn't make sense to me.
In addition, please refer to this thread, in which Vic provides more information on the difficulties we will have with canceling Playtest orders which have already been shipped out. Thanks Sam. I PM'd Vic following his offer to try to cancel and found mine had shipped and is actually due for delivery this week. Unfortunately I had already ordered from somewhere else based on the estimated delivery dates so I will end up with two copies of everything (and twice the cost) but guess I'll have to live with that.
I would be very surprised if they did. Unless they need to test the monster building rules specifically they probably don't want to add more variables that could throw off the results of things they want to test. Yep. Can understand why it wouldn't be a priority for the playtest as it would be difficult to get useful feedback on homebrewed content. Would have been useful though.The rules in Unchained and Starfinder are really good and wanted to see / try out the new incarnation.
As per thread title. Would really like to see the monster-building rules. Along with playing Doomsday Dawn, I was planning on converting the Rise of the Runelords game I'm running for my daughter. The level up and level down rules are useful but would be great to try out the full monster building mechanics.
I think all we know is that monster-building uses a system similar to Pathfinder Unchained / Starfinder. I would imagine that Were-creature and Lich would be template grafts (or whatever that becomes in 2E) given that is what they are in Unchained. On a side note I'm a bit disappointed that the monster creation rules aren't in the Playtest docs as would have liked to try them out (not least for converting old APs) but appreciate homebrewed monsters would skew the data Paizo gathers.
As per my posts elsewhere and my emails to customer service that have all gone unanswered please cancel the above order of my Playtest products. The estimated delivery date of 6 September for UK pre-orders is not anywhere near what we were promised and I would therefore be grateful if you would cancel the order and refund my payment in full so that I can source the Playtest products from elsewhere.
Any update on UK orders? An estimated delivery date of 6 September is ridiculous. We should be offered a full refund so that we can source the books elsewhere.
Do we have a decision on whether we will be able cancel orders and get full refunds (as I have requested via email)? I'm not prepared to wait until September and have ordered duplicates via Book Depository given Paizo / Amazon has not been able to fulfil as promised.
When I ordered mine it says, as it always does for cheapest shipping possible from Paizo, shipping time 11-40 business days. So as long as I get mine by mid September Paizo is covered from 40 working days after Aug 2nd. What did your shipping estimate say when you ordered it, is the UK normally substantially faster than NZ? Or did you pay extra for expedited shipping, if that was available?Have ordered from Book Depository (for less than I paid Paizo) and requested a full refund from Paizo through customer service. Can't see why we should have to wait until September in the UK when other retailers have the products available now.Wow. Just looked at Book Depository and I can get the books within two days at substantially reduced cost to what I have already paid. Can Paizo advise if a full refund is possible for UK customers please? I had my about to ship email on 13 July and it said 11 to 36 business days as usual but I queried on the forums whether international customers could expect to get products on or about 2 August and was assured (by Vic) that we could. That said I would have lived with a short delay. A month, however, during which one of the flip mats will become redundant for playtest purposes of following the timetable, is not acceptable to me.
Wow. Just looked at Book Depository and I can get the books within two days at substantially reduced cost to what I have already paid. Can Paizo advise if a full refund is possible for UK customers please? Have ordered from Book Depository (for less than I paid Paizo) and requested a full refund from Paizo through customer service. Can't see why we should have to wait until September in the UK when other retailers have the products available now.
Wow. Just looked at Book Depository and I can get the books within two days at substantially reduced cost to what I have already paid. Can Paizo advise if a full refund is possible for UK customers please?
Indeed he did. But I didn't pay Amazon.I don't find that particularly relevant to the process of determining Paizo's way forward. Other than the fact that you will receive whatever compensation Paizo offers and I will not, as I did pay Amazon. Paizo need to determine the way forward they offer to those that ordered the Playtest products through them and Amazon need to determine how they resolve issues with those that ordered through them. Of course I will receive whatever compensation that Paizo determine I should have but I will argue strongly that it should be more than the $15 store credit given the month delay I am going to experience.
As a minimum, those facing a delay of a month as I seem to be should be refunded shipping costs (I paid $26). I have raised this by email with customer service. I appreciate the $15 store credit but I don't think it cuts it for the kind of delay it looks like I am expected to live with.I believe Vic said they are discussing that with Amazon. Indeed he did. But I didn't pay Amazon.
What do you expect Paizo to do that they are not?I don't know what more you want Paizo to do about it. Amazon has everything.Sorry. I love Paizo as a company, having been a customer since the Dragon / Dungeon days but if you subcontract something as important to the company's reputation as delivery of playtest products for the next edition then you need to have put in place adequate oversight of the process. That doesn't seem to have happened here and, having seen above I might have to wait over a month from now for products I paid for in mid-July I am (I think justifiably) appalled at the company at the moment. As a minimum, those facing a delay of a month as I seem to be should be refunded shipping costs (I paid $26). I have raised this by email with customer service. I appreciate the $15 store credit but I don't think it cuts it for the kind of delay it looks like I am expected to live with.
I don't know what more you want Paizo to do about it. Amazon has everything. Sorry. I love Paizo as a company, having been a customer since the Dragon / Dungeon days but if you subcontract something as important to the company's reputation as delivery of playtest products for the next edition then you need to have put in place adequate oversight of the process. That doesn't seem to have happened here and, having seen above I might have to wait over a month from now for products I paid for in mid-July I am (I think justifiably) appalled at the company at the moment.
Are all UK orders going to be a month late?Sorry—I have no ability to answer that, other than I expect there will be SOME variability. Thanks Vic. This is hugely disappointing and, as I posted above I'm not sure why this issue came to light so late in the day. It is also extremely frustrating to have no way to obtain info about individual orders. I really admire Paizo's commitment to customer service and the fact that you are on the boards today answering queries is commendable but $100 (including $26 for shipping) is not an insignificant amount of money for me to layout. To then find out the products may not arrive until September is a huge let down. I assume there will be an examination of what went wrong here in terms of oversight of Amazon's processes as my faith in Paizo has been damaged by this experience.
Vic I noticed in the orders your checked you didn't list the UK, are you able to check any UK orders to give us a rough ETA? As the EU countries listed have a few days difference in them. Thanks for the update Vic. Are all UK orders going to be a month late? If so, I assume the Flip Mat Pack's usability during Doomsday Dawn is going to be reduced somewhat (haven't checked the PDF yet to see which maps are used when). I appreciate you are doing your best to resolve this but having paid out over $100 dollars for the pre-order products I really did not expect they would be arriving over a month after release. I expected there might be a couple of days delay for international shipments (although you were more reassuring on that in a recent post) but I would not have ordered them through Paizo if I had known a delay of this magnitude was even remotely likely.
Completely agree with this. Checking back to my "about to ship" email that I received on 13 July, it did quote 9 to 36 business days delivery time. If my order hasn't shipped then is this still going to be the timeframe? Given I have no better information to go on specifically about my order then that's a fair assumption to make. We were assured within the last week / two weeks that the aim was for everyone (including international customers - I specifically asked) to receive the Playtest hard copy products on, or very close to, 2 August. If it's now 9 to 36 business days from 2 August then that is not what I pre-ordered hard copies for.
Whilst I completely agree that Paizo customer service is excellent and that this problem is being managed as best it can be given the company entered into an arrangement with a third party, somebody definitely dropped the ball here. I am very very disappointed not to be receiving the hard copy books as expected, not least because I paid $26 in shipping and had I ordered directly through Amazon I would have had free shipping through Prime and, by the looks of it, got the books today or tomorrow. My biggest question is why this problem only came to light yesterday? If Amazon shipped no orders on 30 or 31 July then that would clearly affect whether people would get their books on time. Surely there should have been some earlier monitoring, particularly for international customers like me (I'm in the UK) whose orders needed to ship earlier to meet the 2 August date. It would also be good to know how / whether I can find out when I might expect my books. It does not show as an Amazon order on my Amazon account and there is no way to track it through Paizo so I am very much in the dark about what sort of timeframe I am looking at for receiving products I have already paid for. For a package that cost over $100 dollars total, that is not a very satisfactory situation to be in at all. Once again, Paizo customer service is usually excellent but this is a big screw up and not a good way to start the Playtest.
The August 2 target is for all orders—international too.To be clear, Sara Marie is talking only about shipping subscriptions here, not playtest preorders. Amazon is shipping those on a schedule that should ensure most orders arrive very close to the August 2 release date.Thanks Vic. Appreciate this may be out of your hands but are Amazon scheduling international playtest preorders to arrive close to August 2? In the UK so not sure when to expect mine. Thanks Vic. Great news. Can't wait.
To be clear, Sara Marie is talking only about shipping subscriptions here, not playtest preorders. Amazon is shipping those on a schedule that should ensure most orders arrive very close to the August 2 release date. Thanks Vic. Appreciate this may be out of your hands but are Amazon scheduling international playtest preorders to arrive close to August 2? In the UK so not sure when to expect mine.
This is really a nice price, but I was fooled a couple of times online shopping modules like this. Do the books have the dungeon maps with the labels on them for what they are? For example, there will be a description for a part of the dungeon, room 63, though it is not listed directly inside of the book. Does this have that, or do I need to go to a third party source to fill in the blanks on the descriptions of the rooms of the dungeon and what they contain? The hardcover comes with a map booklet that includes fully labelled maps of all dungeons. As the above poster has said, however, the book is out of stock so you would probably need to source a second hand copy (which probably would not be cheap).
I have never spotted these before until I found this thread. Another bit of brilliance from Paizo.
Uuuh, did I miss announcement about shipping orders being later again? I guess its summer after all ._. Paizocon or not, this feels like a pretty normal timeframe for a shipping window for me. Given it is just past Paizocon then grateful to the Customer Service / Warehouse teams for making this happen.
Plus, many people gain a lot of satisfaction at seeing a printed book. Something about holding a bundle of pages in your hands and knowing there's a whole story contained in them is a rather wondrous feeling that simply doesn't transfer to a pdf. I completely agree with this. I am lucky enough to have a complete set of Pathfinder AP volumes in hard copy and sometimes I just like looking at them on my shelf (well, shelves as somewhere around Hell's Rebels they spread to two shelves). Paizo does put out great quality printed products that are good to enjoy in physical form. I would encourage you to browse the more obscure online retailers if you haven't already done so for copies that might have been left behind and be available for reasonable prices rather than the ridiculous prices that are charged by some Amazon Marketplace and E-bay sellers. I also agree that it is frustrating that Paizo does not reprint out of stock books even though I also understand their business reasons for not doing so.
Auth email received. All looks good.
Just to flag that Pathfinder AP #130 is not showing anywhere on the My Subscriptions page in my account. The next volume to ship according to that page is PF #131 which is incorrect. Appreciate that info is not always accurate but given I've not had April SF AP volume yet I wanted to avoid a problem with May's shipment as well. Thanks
Thanks Steve. Finally noticed this thread today so will stop pestering now. And I had assumed the good people at Paizo would not be likely to ask me to return the duplicate copy of The Ruined Clouds but I'll wait to hear from them. Sorry Customer Service people, I will shut up now and wait until you reach my emails.
Hi I've now sent three emails about this and not had an acknowledgement which is not at all like the Paizo customer service I have come to know and love. Grateful if someone could look at this order and advise on when i might receive my subscription copy of The Thirteenth Gate please. Many thanks Medriev
I've been playing RPGs for 30+ years and I don't think I've ever sat down and read a rulebook cover to cover. I skim the rulebook so I know where things are. Read highlights and then look up rules as I need them so I don't think what you're highlighting is a new thing. I also think tabletop RPGs will always offer something that computer games and even VR games will not and that is the fact that their scope is infinite. You can literally go anywhere and (at least try) to do anything within the world you're playing. Even with the most powerful computers we are still unable to simulate an entire living breathing planet which is what an RPG allows the GM to put in front of players if they want to. Until computing power catches up to that I don't see RPGs dying by the wayside anytime soon.
Thanks. Assumed that would probably be the case but in ten years of subscribing I've never encountered this before so I was a bit surprised. I've emailed Customer Service so will wait for a response.
Hi I've received my April shipment and despite all emails and the shipping note saying that the SF AP volume I would receive would be The Thirteenth Gate (and having access to the right download), the book in the package is The Ruined Clouds. Order number is 4754732. Grateful for advice please on what I should do as I've no desire to pay for separate shipping to the UK for the book I should have had nor do I want to be out of pocket returning the duplicate book I've had by mistake to the US. Thanks
Also loving Natural 11. A great podcast. First since GCP to really hook me. Keep up the good work.
Not clear exactly what you're asking for but a few thoughts: - Tracking time in the campaign is easy enough. Pick a start date and use the calendar from the Inner Sea World Guide (or the PF Wiki) to track from there. I tend to use the publication date of the module / book 1 of the AP as a start date (eg. August 2011 = Arodus 4711 and so on). - If he's asking about events in other APs then it's your call if they've happened off screen or not. My personal preference is that an AP / module doesn't happen unless the group has played it thereby maintaining a single continuity for my own personal Golarion but I'm a bit OCD like that. - Historical events outside APs and modules should happen when their time rolls around although Paizo rightly keeps these to a minimum to ensure PCs are driving the setting chronology forward. Hope that helps but if there is specific advice that's missing then shout.
For what it's worth, this is 100% my take on how it played out. Issue 100 was a BIG deal for us; we made it a bigger issue, put a poster map in there, and did our best to make sure the adventure and content were extra awesome. But it ended up being a non-event for whatever reason. As the author of said adventure, it was more than a little disappointing, I must admit, but not everything in life can be super, I guess! I'll add here that I loved issue 100, particularly the adventure and the extra NPC guest stars for each prior AP (an inspired idea). Sorry for not making more of that at the time.
Me too. Never understood why PF doesn't do this more often. Cheaper to produce as no new art order. AP customers are practically guaranteed to buy and homebrew customers will buy because they don't care that it's actually a map of a dungeon under Sandpoint (or wherever) since they don't use the setting. Everybody wins surely?
As listed above, what adventure path would be solid for a party of investigators who investigate various things? Curse of the Crimson Throne could certainly work, for the earlier books at least. The first two books of Rise of the Runelords could work with some effort. I struggle to think of any others if you want to focus (even just initially) on investigating things. Of course, a party of investigators could easily be shoe-horned into any AP if they are intended to be the party that happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when everything starts. Interesting party concept though. Should be interesting.
Paizo will only do a compilation book if they feel 1) it will sell enough to be profitable and 2) that they have the resources available to work on it. I agree (mostly) with what you are saying here but we heard "none" and "never" right before the Curse hardcover was announced. Mostly because I (literally) dreamed of big hardcover adventures when I was playing AD&D 2E and only Paizo ever really delivered it (there were some smaller 3E ones) I will continue to hope that there is another hardcover AP in the pipeline (and follow the conversation as it continues). As for which one it might be. My head is persuaded by the arguments for Kingmaker (and I would buy it) but my heart would like Second Darkness revised and updated to PF if only to save me doing that myself. Updating SD also appeals to the part of me that thinks Paizo should update the 3.5E APs for neatness. I understand that neatness does not equate to profits and so my money would be on Kingmaker with "None" and "Never" a close second and third but here's hoping.
Erik Mona's recent interview with Know Direction is worth a listen He explains, as I recall, that Paizo has had to deprioritise some lines due to launching Starfinder and losing several key staff recently who haven't all been replaced. They want to get the Modules line back up and running but just don't have the resources within the company right now. Interestingly, on a separate issue, he also said they had half a dozen Pathfinder Tales manuscripts ready to go when they find another partner. If I've misremembered any of the interview then anyone else who's heard it (or Paizo people) please correct me. I wouldn't want to spread misleading info.
Agree this can be an issue but it quickly disappears once the new PC has to live with whatever is found / created / bought. On the OP's issue, the story-minded part of me thinks a new PC should be at level with a well-developed backstory to explain how they got from 1st level to level x while the simulationist in me leans towards the Order of the Amber Die approach where death means rolling up a new 1st level PC. On balance, the story side of me wins but it's a tricky problem.
There is good news in the interview which is that they have five or six books ready to go once this does become unstuck. And I agree that Erik's honesty in the interview was welcome.
Got mine too. Thanks
Just went to look over the new scenarios and found they weren't in my downloads despite being available on the site. Disappointing this keeps happening. Hope it's fixed soon.
Thanks Palidian for starting this debate and articulating your arguments so well throughout. I don't agree with your assessment of Starfinder but I understand some of the points raised. So far, I have enjoyed SF but there are things in the system that I think PF does much better. Crucially, I agree with others that building NPCs differently from PCs can break immersion in the game. It hasn't so far in SF but I played 4E for a while and the deal breaker there was that NPCs were completely different from PCs. My key test with that was whether you could build a rival NPC party at the same level as the PCs at the same encounter level. In 4E that was impossible by RAW but I haven't reached a point in SF yet where that might become an issue. I would say, in case there are plans for a PF 2E based on SF, that I would not buy that. PF stands very effectively on its own as a fantasy system and turning it into a Starfinder clone would put me off it (and I have enough PF material to run / play games for the next 200-300 years anyway). Anyway, I agree that SF is not for everyone so best of luck with your Pathfinder AP. There are so many and they are all brilliant (a seperate debate I'm sure) so I'm sure you'll have a blast.
Worth noting as well that if you link your Paizo account to your FG account and you have the Anniversary Edition PDF you get a huge discount on the FG package. I bought the Curse FG package in the last couple of weeks just because with the discount it was too good a price to ignore, knowing how well Smite Works put this stuff together (I have RotR and some of Kingmaker in FG too). Agree with Steff as well that you need to familiarise yourself with it and develop your own way of using it as there is just so much material you could get lost in it.
Thanks both. Will check out those suggestions. Found one Dead Suns podcast that wasn't bad but it wasn't one of those. Will check out Critical Role and Adventure Zone as well. Much appreciated.
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