Mundane way to stop Fast Healing?


Advice


Outside of magic spells, for melee/ranged warriors, is there anyway to face a foe and negate their fast healing?

I ask this because of a PC who has fast healing and really high AC. So when they finally do get hit, it doesn’t matter because by the time they get hit a second time their damage is healed back up.

Is there a feat or magic weapon, alchemical item or class feature that can stop a foe from benefitting from Fast Healing? Or is magic the only way?

Silver Crusade

Drowning.


This depends heavily on how they are getting fast healing. Some fast healing abilities have built in conditions that determine if it's active or not. If you have some way to stop those conditions then you stop the fast healing.

for example. a fire mephit only has it's fast healing while it's physically in contact with a fire source. If you throw a bucket of water on the source or bull rush it away from the source you shut off it's fast healing. At least until it's able to re-establish those conditions that trigger it's fast healing.


Not that I' m aware of. Pathfinder really doesn't do mundane very well.

I thought at one pint, there was a magic weapon enchantment but I can't remember what it is, nor do I see it with a quick browse.

Fast Healing is either SU or EX. EX can't really stop. If its SU, I think there are some items that make anti magic field sorta effects.. but that would be kind of going past the magic idea there.

Hopefully someone comes by that can give a better idea.


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I'm curious how someone is getting constant fast healing in the first place, since thats generally a pretty restricted ability.

regardless if they have super High AC rather than worrying about dealing with damage and the like just use things that target other defenses.

Alchemists throwing bombs to hit touch AC which is generally lower than regular AC.

Or utilize Combat maneuvers, since CMD is also usually lower than AC by a fair bit. Trip will hurt AC, disarm will make them ineffective, dirty trick will eat actions, and grapple can flat out take them out of the fight with a few decent rolls.


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Hmm, is this person playing a Skald by any chance? If so, preventing him from using his Perform skill will resolve the issue. Their fast healing only works while the rage song is ongoing. Grappling usually works for the movement based perform checks. If its singing or chanting, throw a smoke grenade or something that will cause them to start coughing. If they are incapable of making noise, they are effectively shut down as far as that goes (and their spells).

Silver Crusade

Given how rapidly damage accumulates in Pathfinder, and how slowly Fast Healing removes that damage, I'm surprised this is an issue.

There are lots of ways to get at a foe (such as the PC in question) who has high AC. E.g. Suggestion above was to attack CMD with a combat maneuver.

I once GMd a bunch of weak goblinoids against a single strong Full Plate armored Fighter. Goblinoids eventually figured out they could not hit AC, so they changed to dogpile (aka grappling) tactics. This worked great (for the goblins), not so great for the PC. Fighter killed the first goblin to grapple via an AoO but didn't have Combat Reflexes. Not that it would have changed the outcome. Allies arrived just in time to save the prone-and-grappled PC from being knifed to death by ten grappling goblins.


How fast is this fast healing? I can't think of anything in the official rules that would make this an issue. Even if you allowed things to stack that shouldn't be stacking, the fast healing shouldn't be much of an issue.


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mundane solution: stab it for more than its fast healing value every turn


Give them enough bleed damage to counteract the fast healing


He's a 16th-level Unchained Monk with 30 Wisdom (natural 20, boosted it 4 with levels, has a +6 item) and the Saint template from Book of Exalted Deeds, which grants his Wisdom as an insight bonus to AC/CMD. His equipment consists mainly of defensive items; +5 deflection, bracers +6, he has Barkskin ki power for +5 more, his Dex is 22.

His base AC is 52. He has ways of getting it closer to 60.

The Saint template gave him Fast Healing 10.

I'm tired of the game not giving Martials more abilities to overcome things without the use of magic. I was hoping there was a feat or even an alchemical item one could use on their weapon so that a hit could nullify the fast healing.


Barachiel Shina wrote:

He's a 16th-level Unchained Monk with 30 Wisdom (natural 20, boosted it 4 with levels, has a +6 item) and the Saint template from Book of Exalted Deeds, which grants his Wisdom as an insight bonus to AC/CMD. His equipment consists mainly of defensive items; +5 deflection, bracers +6, he has Barkskin ki power for +5 more, his Dex is 22.

His base AC is 52. He has ways of getting it closer to 60.

The Saint template gave him Fast Healing 10.

I'm tired of the game not giving Martials more abilities to overcome things without the use of magic. I was hoping there was a feat or even an alchemical item one could use on their weapon so that a hit could nullify the fast healing.

he has 3.5 shenanigans going on that explains things quite a bit. At that level you might be able to hurt him if you throw a bunch of cr 23+ monsters at him. 3.5 has some really unbalanced options making it hard to counter in a reasonable manner.


With that much third party, just make up a new magical weapon: ugly wounds. It would negate natural healing and effects that work like natural healing like fast healing.


Barachiel Shina wrote:
I'm tired of the game not giving Martials more abilities to overcome things without the use of magic. I was hoping there was a feat or even an alchemical item one could use on their weapon so that a hit could nullify the fast healing.

Uh, if 3.5 material is being used, you have a whole other issue to deal with. But, mostly, you are dealing with a hefty Supernatural and Magical template, which is going to require more of the same to overcome... easily. If magic boosts his AC up that high, you will need magic to counter it.

As for overcoming the Monk (Saint), one of the other posters already recommended how to handle the issue. Drown him, or otherwise suffocate them.


The simplest mundane way to negate fast healing is to kill the creature with fast healing. : /

If your PC has a really high AC, keep in mind three things:

1. If it's anything past the first couple of levels, they probably invested a lot of character resources into being difficult to kill and should thus enjoy the benefits. There's always swarms, traps, maneuvers, alchemical items targeting touch AC, and really strong enemies with high attack and damage bonuses to occasionally threaten the tank.

2. Those are resources that didn't go into making the PC a walking problem solver. They won't hit as hard or have as many plot coupons as a character who didn't spend it all on mundane survivability. In extreme cases, intelligent opponents might figure out to simply ignore such characters until they've dealt with the rest of the party.

3. At higher levels, AC becomes much less relevant, as it costs more and more to continue to increase while attack bonuses go up for free.

TL;DR: Don't worry about it.

Edit: Wait, this is a 16th-level monk with 3.5 material? Why on earth are you limiting yourself to mundane means?


Or just introduce him to a Marilith gunslinger. While its unlikely that the gunslinger will actually hit the monk just being able to shoot 6 pistols with no penalty should be intimidating. With 8 shots around (3 itterative attacks + 5 off hand attacks with no penalties due to racial ability) the Marilith is likely to get a crit or two. Which should be enough of a threat that the monk attacks the Marilith.

Which is when Unholly Aura does 1d6 strength damage each time the Monk hits. With flurry the monk could be dead in the first round. Fast Healing doesn't help with stat damage, and I get the feeling the player hasn't burried himself into a strength build, but the more min-max dex build which means even 2 hits could zero his strength. If he somehow survives, figure out his encumbrance. The monk might be denied his dex bonus due to heavy encumbrance which should lower his AC significantly.

Shadow Lodge

Swarms that inflict bleed damage, which fast healing does not stop unless it is magical in nature.


The Monk is the New Black Knight! *See Monty Python: Quest of the Holy Grail* Use a Sword of Sharpness against them! Fast Healing does NOT regenerate severed limbs. Sure, the Monk is near indestructible, unkilleble, but with out arms and legs, not much of an issue any more... Ok, you will need a gag to muffle the ranting...

*edit* In other words, crippling attacks, severed limbs, Fast Healing is NOT Regeneration, just read each entry in back of Bestiary. Lost Limbs remain missing with out actual regeneration magic. Likely the only way to slow them down is with targeted strikes/cinematic crits...


Bleeding Critical on a crit-fishing martial. It doesn't stop the fast healing, but it would offset the amount he heals /shrug.

Shadow Lodge

You could also just talk to him and address your concerns about making the game challenging again. Some players enjoy feeling invincible though, and it can be hard to pull off so when it does happen it feels even better.


The BBEG is a Monk of similar build but Evil, no taking him down. Some one has to face him and trick him into a room and hold him there while the rest of the party seals the room forever...


Barachiel Shina wrote:

His base AC is 52. He has ways of getting it closer to 60.

The Saint template gave him Fast Healing 10.

Any creature who can hit AC 52 (which even the Tarrasque would struggle with), let alone AC 60, should be capable of doing at least 100 points of damage per round. It doesn't sound like the Fast Healing is the main problem here.


Matthew Downie wrote:
Barachiel Shina wrote:

His base AC is 52. He has ways of getting it closer to 60.

The Saint template gave him Fast Healing 10.
Any creature who can hit AC 52 (which even the Tarrasque would struggle with), let alone AC 60, should be capable of doing at least 100 points of damage per round. It doesn't sound like the Fast Healing is the main problem here.

Indeed.

And touch attacks I'm going to guess won't help as much as I'll bet those AC bonuses aren't armor, shield and nat armor for the most part.

Silver Crusade

Send lots of shadow rat swarms after him (auto strength damage). I don't know the exact stats, but one appears in Giantslayer book 1.

Sovereign Court

A good time for Aerial creature Leech Swarms? d3 Str and Con damage, d4 Dex drain poison, immune to weapon damage, fly 30' and CR 5.

Kayerloth wrote:

Indeed.

And touch attacks I'm going to guess won't help as much as I'll bet those AC bonuses aren't armor, shield and nat armor for the most part.

At least 11 of the AC would go away on touch, Bracers +6 and Barkskin +5.

Sovereign Court

Barachiel Shina wrote:

He's a 16th-level Unchained Monk ...

The Saint template gave him Fast Healing 10.

I am showing the Saint Template giving 1/2 HD in Fast Healing(at least in my copy, may not have errata), so the Saint should have only 8. Also, its a 2 level adjustment and in chapter 2 where it talks about how characters can acquire the template(3 exalted feats, RP stuff) it says you basically skip your next two level ups to pay off the level adjustment. So even if they got it for "free" they still have to pay for it going forward.

So, is the rest of the party level 18? If they are, Mariliths are only CR 17, so they should be fighting Advanced/Modified/Unique Mariliths as a "challenge" at this point. Also, Project Image + Telekinesis + racks of large sized Longswords is a thing. 15 attacks for 2d6 (no str mod) at basically her normal primary attack modifier from 1300' away (assuming the racks of swords are within 160' of the Saint, Project Image is Medium and TK is Long from there). Bonus points if you count throwing the swords with TK as wielding and add in Infuse Weapon and the Graveknight's Channel Destruction for another 4d6 each (though Saint is immune to 3 of the 4 damage types, and Resist 10 on Fire). Force them to close through Blade Barrier, and once they actually get close, greater teleport and repeat. These things are supposed to be the 'Tacticians' after all... and a Graveknight Marilith is only a CR 19.

Also, feinting in combat is a thing. Feint doesn't make your target flatfooted it denies their Dex to AC. Flat-footed causes you to lose your Dex, Feint causes you to lose your Dex, but Feinting does not cause Flat-footed. In most cases it ends up being the exact same thing but for Monk/Rogue/Barbarian/Bloodrager/etc it can be important to remember.

Block Upper Chakras would stop fast healing, Fester could cut it in half, Advodaza/Cornugon/Bearded Devil's infernal wound would stop the fast healing cold, though its a little unclear whether it functions normally or not, since it doesn't have a CL. I'd probably just say use the character level as the caster level.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The most mundane way to cut down the fast healing is to say "Rebuild your character to be Pathfinder legal". No magic involved in that.


Shadowfoot wrote:
The most mundane way to cut down the fast healing is to say "Rebuild your character to be Pathfinder legal". No magic involved in that.

At that point the player would be better off just quitting the campaign....


Or accept that at an effective player level of 18 (with crazy 3.5. stuff), you need non-mundane enemies to challenge the PCs. D&D was never designed for mundane high-level combat, and Pathfinder didn't change that.

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