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Talonhawke wrote:
Meirril wrote:
I know OP doesn't want to hear this, but I'll say it anyways. Player brought this up for a game I was running a few years ago. It should work by RAW, but as GM I said no. Because that specific combination would be annoying if a player constantly abused it. Especially if they cast it multiple times. Nobody wants to sit through a 20 minute turn while the party wizard decides what his 15 summoned monsters are all going to do.
Sure but I mean If you have a wizard with 15 2nd level spells and 15 of what ever slot they are burning for the summon they could be doing a lot worse things likely.

Read the title of this thread. There is a significant reason why Heighten Spell is mentioned. You make a wand of alter summoned monster, then prepare as many spell slots of 2nd level or greater you want to with Mount, heightened to the level of the spell slot. Your Mount spells can be turned into a summon monster X where X is the spell level that the mount spell was heightened to.

Most dungeon crawls don't last more than a few hours. But your caster can blow through all of his mount spells before he enters the dungeon and will have those summoned creatures through the entire run.

The most limited resource in Pathfinder is actions. Having your caster take most of his actions hours before combat begins and being able to take a dozen more actions than the rest of his party is not only unbalanced, but will also make combat drag on while the caster controls his mob of summons.


Throw the situation back into the player's lap. If you've done a good job of world building the players should have a lot of NPCs they know of that they might be able to work with. If the players can come up with a plan that cuts out the leader of the rebel forces and his most psychotic followers they might be able to broker a deal between the moderate humanoids and the government.

But it is up to the players to come up with an idea. You shouldn't just give it to them. Though if they take their complaints to enough NPCs (or the right NPCs) you can have the NPC give them their ideas on how to do it.

And at that point, you need to make it difficult for the PCs to change things. All of the momentum is heading towards this civil war. If they want to change things, they should struggle. We're talking social encounters with heavy skill use. Bribes should be expected. The deals should go a lot farther than just avoiding the war. Each figure in the negotiation should be expecting some sort of benefit for their faction (or personal gain).

You need to be receptive to the players idea. Even if you can spot some flaws, as long as the general idea kind of sounds good let it work. With effort. You need to make the players feel like they struggled and they did something. Not that you just let it happen. That will be more satisfying.

And the really hardcore NPCs that you've written that want the civil war? They should fight a smaller scale battle. Or you could have the whole scene where the rebelion turns on its leaders as the faction the players worked with helps them destroy the hardcore faction.


I know OP doesn't want to hear this, but I'll say it anyways. Player brought this up for a game I was running a few years ago. It should work by RAW, but as GM I said no. Because that specific combination would be annoying if a player constantly abused it. Especially if they cast it multiple times. Nobody wants to sit through a 20 minute turn while the party wizard decides what his 15 summoned monsters are all going to do.


Ryan Freire wrote:
Fighter/brawler seems weak AF at first but honestly, being able to be a badass at ranged combat and close combat with your 40someodd feats seems legit.

Other than breaking the campaign rules, it sounds good.

But compare that to being a Fighter/Cleric. Self buffing is good. Fighter/Warpriest or Inquisitor could be amazing too. Honestly any class that doesn't have to deal with arcane spell failure and can buff AC is better than a few more feats.


Startoss-style focused Bard using Desna divine fighting style. You buff, you ranged, and you can melee in a pinch. That makes the party healing light, but with a druid in the party you should be able to manage.

Alternatively you could go for a charisma focused Evangelist Cleric with a 14 starting wis.


Adjoint wrote:

I believe "kind" is even more specific than "sub-type". Generally every monster entry in Bestiary is its own kind. So for example I believe you can detect elves specifically, without detecting half-elves. On the other hand, you wouldn't be able to detect elves and half-elves with one casting of the spell.

I would put some exceptions for that one entry-one kind rule. For example differently sized fire elementals would still be the same kind. A magmin (also an outsider with elemental and fire subtypes) would still be a different kind of creature.

Wouldn't that mean you'd detect a specific species of elf? Like you'd detect a common elf, but not a Dark Elf, or even an Artic Elf (which is just a set of racial traits)?


Dαedαlus wrote:

In regards to Intensify Spell- there’s no point. Each mini fireball deals a fixed amount of damage, that doesn’t scale with level. What does scale is how many fireballs you throw, and that has no cap.

For energy resistance- the Feat does suggest that the damage stacks, as you only make a single save against everything.

You don't get to eat your cake and have it too. If you cut the fireball up into smaller fireballs you don't get to pile up the bits and say "its one lump". You cut it up to gain an advantage, deal with the accompanying disadvantage. Nothing about the feat says you should be able to add the damage of overlapping fireballs. Meteor Swarm has specific language to say all the damage is additive, the feat mentions nothing like that so it should lack that advantage.


So, let me just rattle out a 'standard' Battering Blast sorcerer build to compare.

Orc Blooded with Blood Havoc and Blood Intensity. Which means +2 damage per dice, and 5 uses of Blood Intensity that adds +11d6 to the level cap of a damaging spell.

Feats: Heighten Spell, Spell Focus(evocation). Spell Specialization (battering blast), varisian tatoo (evocation), Empower Spell, Intensify Spell, Preferred Spell(battering blast), Quicken Spell, Maximize Spell, Spell Penetration(evocation), Spell Perfection(battering blast).

Blood Feat: Widen Spell, Toughness, Great Fortitude.

Traits: the usual suspects.

Grabbing the CHA from Firebug's post: 33 (+11 mod)

CL: 26 without items. If you can find 4 more levels in items that would make a huge difference. But lets stick with 26 for a 'fair' comparison.

26 means 5 battering blasts. Using Intensify Spell you can exceed the damage by 5 CLs, which increases it to 7d6. Not great. But if you use Blood Intensity instead you can up the damage dice by your cha or str mod (+11), which maxes out at 16d6...but you only have enough levels for 13d6. Oh well! So we'll use the 5 uses per day ability that doesn't modify the spell's level.

For damage we'll pile on Empower Spell (+2), Maximize Spell (perfection), and traits (-2 metamagic level)...for a net 0 change in spell level. We really can't use more feats to pump the damage any higher. Its actually possible to pump another +4 in metamagic mods into this.

So 13d6+26 x 1.5= 19.5d6+39 is an empowered blast. Maxamized is 156 per ball, x5 balls = 780.

And its force damage. and its touch with no save to reduce damage. And this can be comboed with either quicken or dazing.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:

The character has a 7 STR and a 11 WIS so going monk is not going to gain all that much. Since the character has no WIS bonus the only extra AC will be from gaining levels, and that does not kick in until 4th level. Flurry of blows is also going to be of limited use. Without a WIS bonus your KI pool will be lower than normal thereby limiting the use of Ki abilities. The DC for stunning fist will also be nerfed. In short monk (unchained or normal) is a poor choice for this character.

Studied Target and Sneak attack can apply to spells so boost his ability as a wizard. At second level he can take Finesse Rogue as a slayer talent to get weapon finesse without having to spend a feat that could be used to boost the wizard side. Later he can pick up trapfinding or weapon training (Ray). He also gains a lot of skill points and most skills as class skills. This is a better choice for this character.

Early game you gain the d10 hp, full BAB and best saves possible. With a few levels you gain some movement abilities, and immunities to poisons and diseases.

Since the campaign is looking to head to 20th level the deficiencies in stats can be made up in items. Sure the first stat boosting item will be int, but the second being Wis is a very solid choice. And long before that a 2nd level spell can be used to give +2 AC and +2 will save. Not bad at all.

Considering that hybrid classes are not being allowed in this campaign, slayer and investigator are off the table.


Yeah, ucMonk sounds better and better.


For a race you might consider Ganzi. You could be the first generation that mutates from a normal human.

And I'd recommend 2 extra levels of sorcerer, so you can pick up a second bloodline ability.

If you plan on being a natural weapon expert, then you want the first draconinc bloodline ability. If you plan on using a weapon (and why wouldn't you?) ditch the claws for Blood Havoc. The +1 to damage with spells will do more for you than claws you don't intend to use.

Keep the natural armor. Dragon Disciple will give you more to stack up.

Though..if you plan on wearing armor you might want to go 4 levels of paladin. Since you need to deal with the arcane spell failure somehow you probably shouldn't depend on spells.


If you are really, really worried about a gunslinger ruining your BBG have them cast a fog spell when they notice the gun.

Also if Xanesha happens to be a Lamia Matriarch (am I right?) they are immune to mind-affecting so they would ignore confusion. And if I remember correctly...the lamia is more dangerous unarmed than if she was using her weapon.


Claxon wrote:
Syries wrote:
Claxon wrote:
However, it seems clear that you should be able to charge with your lance and attack, even if your mount doesn't.
When your mounted character takes the charge action, both the companion and the PC are charging. You cannot take other types of actions while the other makes a charge action.

I didn't say you could.

What I am saying i:s MOUNTED COMBAT RULES ARE BROKEN WHEN APPLIED RIGOROUSLY.

A level 1 character without any of the mounted combat feats cannot perform a mounted lance charge because of the rules.

You and your mount charge together. You both occupy all the same squares. So you determine your reach from the edge of your mounts squares. Mounts (commonly) have only 5ft reach. You with your mount have 10ft reach. Your reach is longer than your mounts, but if you're both charging (and an FAQ makes it clear that you are) then both you and your mount can't attack, because you have to make an attack and stop in the first square from which you are capable of doing so. Which probably means your mount stops short of being able to make an attack and you use your lance, and your horse...does nothing. Maybe.

Again the rules are broken if you apply them too staunchly, so you have to make some leaps to get them to a place where they make sense.

At no point did I indicate that you get to do other things with your or your mounts actions, I simply was saying that your mount might not attack even though by the rules it should have to in order to charge.

All movement is going to be determined by the mount. The player character gets to attack like they performed a charge, the PC isn't using its movement at all.

You could object that if the PC doesn't have a reach weapon they don't threaten the target, since a medium sized PC is considered to be at the center of the 4 squares a large amount takes up, meaning you have to reach more than the normal to reach an opponent. But looking at the entire section its fairly obvious that a mounted character is allowed to use any weapon to make melee attacks without any mention of reach.


I think the easiest solution is to beat it down and then set up a 24/7 mining operation to extract anything valuable from the still living flesh.

Or if you squeamish, or chaotic good, or neutral good, or even have good tendencies you might just want to dump the unconscious body on the positive energy plane. The positive energy plane is even more hostile than the negative energy plane. Things live on the negative energy plane, nothing but positive elementals exist on the positive.

But seriously, think of the burger stand you could have. Tarskburger where they never skimp on the meat.


I'm just going to throw this out there for rules reasons.

If your mounted on your wolf, you and the wolf charge at the same time, because that is how mounted combat works.

If you are not mounted on the wolf, the two of you don't go on the same action. When it is your turn, you choose if the wolf or you go first. You complete that character's actions, then you do the other character's actions. You can't have both of you move and then one takes a standard action then the other. That isn't how turns work without specific rules to say they do (and those rules only happen in specific situations). Mounted Combat is one of those specific situations.


Sandpoint and the coalition run by Magnamar aren't a democracy, its a feudal oligarchy headed by the Mayor of Magnamar who is 'elected' by the nobles that are recognized as part of the house of lords there. And they only have a vote on who the mayor is when some faction tries to remove the current Mayor, who is more like a King than the actual King of Varisia.

Sandpoints Mayor should be an appointment, most likely by the agreement of the 4 local noble houses. Though it could actually be appointed by the Mayor in Magnamar. It really isn't discussed.

While it is certainly possible to become the ruler of Sandpoint, the Downtime and Kingdom Building rules will not help you do so. Downtime will help you accumulate bonuses to rolls in Sandpoint, but there is no skill check to take over. You need to make a plan and carry it out. That might involve things that Influence and other resources generated by downtime can help with, but you'd be adventuring in town and taking risks. Not doing something that doesn't involve the rest of the players.

And even if you do succeed in becoming the ruler of Sandpoint, Sandpoint isn't a separate Kingdom from Magnamar. You don't qualify to use the Kingdom Building rules because you aren't actually sovereign over the lands. The surrounding lands look towards Sandpoint as a point of contact and civilization, but the armies are based out of Magnamar. The patrolls come from Magnamar. The taxes go to Magnamar. Sandpoint pays taxes to Magnamar. The only way to actually use the Kingdom Building rules would be to break away from Magnamar. I don't think the locals would be thrilled, and most certainly neither Magnamar or Riddleport would ignore the town of Sandpoint declaring its independence.

As for building an airport in Sandpoint...use the downtime rules. It is just a series of rooms plus a few teams. If you are using the downtime rules to generate enough magic resources to make your crafting turn a profit, you should be comfortable with these rules as well.

Also downtime magic crafting generates a profit when you use magic resources, but not crazy amounts of it. If you up the DC to double your crafting progress that means you craft 2,000 gp per day, which generates 1,000 gp profit per day. That assumes you can generate 20 magic resources per day as well. Getting a cohort or another player with Cooperative Crafting can let you make even more but its effectively the same profit per person. And Sandpoint has a purchase limit of 10k so at most a single player should be able to generate 5k per non-adventuring day using this method.

Though my wizard use Fabricate to craft Keelboats (we were on a river). 1k of expenses plus a 5th level spell equals a 500gp profit. Or if you use Goods and Magic to generate the capital that is 500gp in materials to produce 1000gp profit when you sell the Keelboat for half market value. I made a deal with the GM to only sell 2 boats per week. I could of convinced him to give me the full sales value since I owned the local shipwright and one of the docks but I thought it was fair to say the other 1,500gp involved in the sale went to the businesses.

When I was doing all of this Sailboats (10k each) were also possible with Fabricate for a high enough level wizard. They aren't much bigger than a Keelboat but with 3 times the profit per spell.

That sort of money flowing into a party without adventuring generally isn't good for a campaign. Too much unearned wealth make the party too flush with magic items to leave a real challenge for the party without redesigning every encounter. The best way to prevent that from happening is to not give the players a lot of downtime. Adventuring is what you here for anyways, right?


Temperans wrote:

My suggestion is Myrmidarch Magus/Wizard Eldritch Knight/Arcane Archer.

Aren't prestige classes disallowed for Gestalt characters?


Qw3rty wrote:

As said we’ll probably move to gestalt given the lack of players and so what I’m seeking in the gestalt path is how to enhance the power of my wizard and not how to cover multiple roles.

Qw3rty

So you want to be a wizard/arcanist because that makes you a double wizard with a side of exploits.

BUT the whole reason is because your party is short on bodies. That means your party is short on numbers. This means other people will not be able to cover for YOUR weaknesses. You need to cover them yourself. Expect to get stuck in melee combat at early levels. How are you going to cope with that when nobody else is going to body block for you?

This sounds like a conventional group for a gestalt campaign: we're short on bodies so we'll let you be uber. And you better be uber because you're 3 man group is getting 5 man challenges.

Newsflash: It takes a lot of levels for a wizard to get uber. Maybe your GM will be nice and pull punches. Maybe the other 2 players will cover you better than should be expected. Or maybe you'll just have to start the character over again.

If you want to be a double caster, you can do that. But try to make it something that can contribute to your own defense. Wizard/Druid would be fairly strong. Your wis doesn't have to be nearly as good as your int because you can use the druid spells as support. The same could be said for a Wizard/Cleric. W/C lacks the built in bodyguard that druids get, but the stronger healing and support spells can make up for that.


Which armor you'd want can be affected by your stats. If you have a really high dex you'd probably want to make sure you get your whole dex bonus.

Also you might of traded away some armor training for an archetype or advanced armor training options. So mithril may actually be something you want.

Adamantine is hard to go wrong with as a special material. DR is always good, and a lot of attacks that work against armor won't work against adamantine.

Personally I'd recommend +5 Medium Fortification Mind Buttressing Comfort Radiant Flight Adamantine Hell Knight Plate Armor (Glamored if you can afford the extra).

While the drop from 75% to 50% resistance to critical hits is huge, being immune to mind control and possession is kind of a big deal to high level fighters. You can definitely drop Radiant Flight if you have another way to fly.

Avr's armor is great, but I worry about dominate person. Also the base armor doesn't have to be Hell Knight Plate armor, but its got a 1 better skill penalty which sort of matters. 4 armor training, 1 comfort, 1 master crafted. Maybe that doesn't matter after all? It wouldn't matter to a basic fighter with no Advanced Armor Training.


Revolving Door Alternate wrote:


Is there actually any rules legal way to get permanently transformed into a dragon?

Polymorph Any Object might be able to do it. It actually depends on how dragon-like your character starts off with...and if the GM will throw you a free bone.

For permanent you need 9 points from the chart. You'r both animals, so that is 5 points there. Now you need 4 more points of commonality for permanency.

Reptilian race will get you +2. Medium sized will get you +2 (PAO is limited to Form of the Dragon 1, which is limited to medium size).

Same or lower intelligence will get you +2. Depending on which dragon you choose you might get this. Medium sized is a young dragon so...did you pick up your int at all?

Which leaves Related for a +2. You are dragon blooded. Which means you have some sort of link to dragons. I'd argue that is related even if you aren't technically of the dragon type. If you are a kobolt and the GM won't give you this, you have my sympathy.

If you want to be a large dragon...ever consider being a druid? You get a drake companion.


If you are looking to make your character a tough wizard, I think Wizard/ucMonk works very well. All your saves are on the best progression. You have d8 hp. You get wis to dodge. You probably won't start with an impressive wis mod, but you can add items plus an eventual inherent bonus to wis. You also get a ton of special abilities that include extra base movement, immunity to poison/disease, and special movement modes that you don't have to cast/can use grappled and silenced.

If you wanted to make yourself the ultimate caster, either druid or cleric for your 2nd class. Cleric is a bit stronger when you consider Miracles are Wishes without the 25,000gp material component. But druid is a very strong choice when you consider wildshape and the animal companion. Also your ability to hit with ranged attack gets slightly better with 3/4 BAB. Not that anything else you'd pick up wouldn't be 3/4 BAB

And if you wanted to cheese hard and you mostly cared about improving your saves...be a full Wizard with 20 level 1 classes. While the abilities from your 2nd class will be trash, the 1st level saves add up and progress way faster than they would if you just followed the best progression. You could be a wizard whose worse save is wis. Make sure you choose a full BAB class every time wizard doesn't advance its BAB.


Actually Kingmaker would be a good adventure for a bunch of tree hugging hippy types. Lots of people using and abusing nature get encountered early on.

And in the middle parts.

And even at the very end a huge section of the land is threatened.

You can also consider the Iron Gods campaign. Normally you'd expect the party to be pro-tech but the campaign material is all set up to be a bunch of robot smashing, tech hating luddites as well. There is even a whole community of like minded people. And you get to fight against pollution!


Some alternative 'immortal' races:

Ghoran are a plant species that can create a clone of themselves. When the clone matures the consciousness transfers to the new body. So effectively immortal unless killed.

Shabti are strange artificial humanoids created to suffer the torments the creator would of suffered after death. As a player, your Shabti passed whatever trials and torments you were assigned and have gained your freedom. While your creation was artificial, you live. And the entire 'race' is immortal.


TheGreatWot wrote:

I'm requesting a new guide to the magus. I want it to be called,

"Playing a Magus Without Having an Actual Orgasm Over Shocking Grasp".

So Eldritch Archer and Snowball your way to orgasm. Though you'll be tempted to use other spells, like Scorching Ray so its not the same spell every time.

Or you could do a 1 level dip into wizard/spellslinger with an Eldritch Archer and use a musket. Use 2 ranged touch cantips for your offensive spells. Dump spells into the barrel and arcane pool to power your class ability to add enchants to the gun. You should be able to add 1d6 ice/fire/acid/electricity to whatever your actual shot/spell does for something like bullet + 4d6 damage at low levels and a touch range of 40'?

You could even go into spell cartridges if you feel like it. Though I think you could find better uses for your feats. Especially since you need 2 swift actions per combat to enchant your weapon.


You can. It follows the same rules as using a weapon that isn't sized for you. In this case its one size smaller, which means it gets treated as a weapon one size category smaller. You also take the -4 penalty to hit since it isn't sized for you.

Crossbows are a bit strange. Most are 2 handed weapons that can be fired but not loaded with 1 hand. In this case it would be treated as a 1 handed weapon that should count as a light weapon when firing. Though you'd need 2 hands to load it.

This would mean you shouldn't be able to use a medium hand crossbow. Since it would be considered too small when firing. Likewise if your large character decided to pick up a loaded huge crossbow you should be able to fire it, but not load it since it would be a 2 handed weapon for a huge creature when loading.

As for the damage, it is a special weapon. Specific always trumps general. And that should only apply to Minotaur Elders, not other large creatures including normal Minotaur.


rorek55 wrote:


Combine the kensai whip magus with feats like
Whip mastery, greater whip mastery, and disarm/trip feats.

Try to stat out what levels you'd take each feat at. I think you'll find the character is plain bad until 13th level. Especially if you go Half Elf and pure Magus like OP intends to.

I hate whip builds. Sure you get a 15' reach, but until you get all of the feats in place you're just weak. And being a Black Blade, you can't switch to another weapon until you pay your feat tax so you suffer until you pay. And pay. And pay.

And you could of had a better build if the feats were spent on something other than overcoming the massive drawbacks of a whip.


Alter the human bonus stat to be +1 to 2 different stats. That encourages humans to diversify in point buy games. You'll see more 14s and 16s and less 18s or 20.

Take away the free feat. Replace it with a fixed feat, and an extra bonus to apologize for removing the big human bonus.

My suggestion would be to make humans 'skilled'. Give them a free skill unlock at level 5. That makes a normal skill more powerful. Useful, but certainly not game breaking. Also let humans add 1 skill of their choice to their list of class skills.

BTW, just removing the extra feat and stat bonus would be like having and old AD&D 1.0 human. Without level caps on the other races, absolutely pointless.


That is like saying my Eidolon gives up his str Ability Increase evolution so I can boost my Int with Ability Increase. That doesn't fit the flavor of the ability, it just fits the most RAW interpretation while ignoring the basis of the ability.

The twin is giving you its evolution, that evolution should do for you what it does for your twin. Not something completely different.


Just my opinion, but since this is apparently the major event that the entire campaign is leading up to, I don't think finding the BBG is even a question.

There won't be any hidden demiplane that the BBG hides out on. Maybe one the BBG retreats to, if the GM has plans for this to be a reoccurring BG. But that doesn't sound like what is going to happen. This should be the final wrap up for a long campaign.

That doesn't mean the BG won't have some sort of ambush set up. We're talking about a wizard. They are very weak to being ambushed, and very strong when on the other side of that ambush. The more straight up your approach is, the more advantage a wizard has because that fits into their expectations. If you really need to fight a wizard, find an angle that they wizard has never considered. That would mean they have no defense set up.

Then again, we're talking about a time travel story. If the GM likes time traveling BGs then they know exactly what you are doing because they have seen it before. The more the GM likes time travel, the more of a pain in the ass the story becomes.


Xaimum Mafire wrote:


Also, why are they fighting this wizard?

Something about Time Travel, a ritual, apocalypse, and becoming a god. If you go through the OPs replies you get the whole story.


Maybe try a bad touch wizard build? Wizards do not belong in melee combat. The spells are high risk, high reward. Focus less on stuff that does damage and more on stuff that disables opponents.

Like Calcific Touch can two shot an opponent with good rolls. Or it could take 5 rounds. Can you're wizard survive 5 rounds of melee?

You could also double down on this and go Sorcerer. More spells per day, less choices.

Or you could do easy mode and go with a Magus. aka the little glass cannon that could...until it shattered. Name yourself Humpty.


My main suggestion would be to get Preferred Spell:Shocking Grasp working ASAP. That will free you up to take a variety of spells that you can convert to shocking grasp as needed.

My thought would be to kick out of slashing grace/dervish dance and just wait on adding dex to damage until you can afford an agile enchantment. That is a long wait, but the extra feat will make the casting part of the build come on line earlier.

(3) Elemental Spell(acid) Fire and Cold are fine too, but acid is resisted less often.

(5) Heighten Spell, Preferred Spell: Shocking Grasp

(7) Intensify Spell.

(9) Empower Spell.

(11) Dazing Spell

(13) Quicken Spell

(15) Spell Perfection: Shocking Grasp

(18) Echoing Spell

Replace one of the Arcana with Wand Wielder.

My build is very feat hungry, and benefits a lot from being human for the extra feat. If you made a human, take Empower Spell as a 1st level feat. You could do spell focus - Spell Specialization - Greater Spell Specialization instead of Preferred Spell but Greater Spell Specialization comes on line later and is inferior to Preferred Spell. The spell specialization line takes 1 more feat but it does offer an early boost to CL. In the long run I think Preferred Spell works out better, though Spell Specialization is more flexible.


Give Sacred Geometry a try. If you are good at manipulating numbers, it is free metamagic feats. If you roll badly you lose the spell.

The payout should happen a lot more than a failure. But once in a while when you really need that spell to happen...you'll mess it up. Arcanist or Sorcerer would be more forgiving than a Wizard. If you screw up with a wizard you generally don't have a second copy of the spell prepared.


avr wrote:
Yes, but what does 'DOOMGUY' feel like? I couldn't afford a computer that could effectively play Doom when it first came out and so I never got into first-person shooters. I'm not familiar with it.

So people tell whispered tales of Demons that slip through fishers in the dimensions to wreck havoc and destroy the civilization of men. Horror stories of remorseless creatures driven by pure hatred.

Demons whisper tales of the DOOMGUY doing the exact same thing. They actually raised shrines around the place where they managed to seal him in Lava at great sacrifice warning future generations of demons of what lies burried within the shrine. They also warn that the DOOMGUY can not be killed, only contained. His fury and wrath knows no rest.

Youtube video of the Demon's Testaments


I'm surprised the OP didn't list the two easiest plots possible.

The really straight forward one is a love one wants to bury the head in a respectable way. Even if your cousin was scum, seeing his severed head every day has got to get to you. Even worse if it was your son or brother.

And the most Pathfinder reasons is...you want to Speak with Dead. Without the head the spell will fail.


I'm thinking the best solution is to just show up to the last game, let it end, and then tell everyone how crap its been and leave.

Leave as in never go back. Go find or make another group. One that is less toxic.


Right. So basic of basics like people have said: research the target.
Start with Legend Lore. That should tell you a bit about him, and hopefully what kind of spells he likes using.

The other big hope would be to find out if this guy has any enemies you can grab as allies. With Resurrection available to the party that means you can raise any enemy you can get a piece of that is less than 140 years dead. Of course living enemies would be preferred. Especially ones that can contribute both combatants and funds to the cause.

Also talking to beings that have witnessed his most recent combats would be highly informative.

Even if you can't get high level help, being able to secure a few NPCs that can cast Dimensional Anchor will save the party a valuable action.

Do not depend on anything the wizard could counter. He will. Do not depend on dispel magic, you're 6 caster levels behind. SR and dispel magic will be useless.

If you have enough time, get your sorcerer to cast Simulacrum 3 times to create a Hag's coven. Include at least 1 green hag so you have access to the basic coven magic. Now make sure your entire party has Mind Blank for the final fight. Bring along invisibility items. Now there is no way for the wizard (or each other) to detect you. Actually you might want to use Invisibility Sphere while you locate what you need, because that way the party can see each other. Then quickly cast improved invisibility for those that need it. Not being targetable should make the fight a bit more fair...or utterly unfair if the wizard isn't ready for it.


TheGreatWot wrote:
Lying of any kind requires bluffing, and bluffing prompts an opposed sense motive check. If your sense motive check is higher than their bluff check, you know that they're lying.

But here is the thing, if you torture someone they don't want to tell you the truth. They want to tell you something that will make you stop torturing them. Truth isn't important, finding out what the torturer wants to hear and telling them that is what is important. And any successful Sense Motive should tell you the person is attempting to bluff you regardless of the truth or falsehood of the answer. The subject only cares about sounding convincing. Matters of truth or lies get left further behind the longer and more effective the torture is.


My recommendations would be to take the racial traits Cat's Claws and Climber. Having a climb speed as a rogue makes climbing less risky and generally more attractive. The +8 on a str based skill helps a lot too. Claws for obvious reasons.

I'm not going to recommend an archetype. The Cat Burglar gets a very powerful ability to take 10 on stealth rolls, but gives up an equally powerful ability to avoid damage. Stealth rolls can be important, not dying to fireballs is better in my opinion.

The whole Scout charge thing...encourages inexperienced rogues to try charging opponents and being the only target for all of the monster's attacks. Lets not try to get the rogue killed. Encourage the party to work with the rogue to get flanking.

Encourage the Rogue to sink points into Charisma and UMD. With a racial bonus to charisma, it shouldn't be a dump stat. 2 stat points get a respectable 14. Instead of sinking 3 more points into Cha to get to 16 I'd recommend 3 points into Int or a different stat. 14 is very comfortable for a non-face character to have. If the kitty wants to be the party face, then go for a 16 cha.

Eventually give the kitty some items to help him be more effective. Like an opportunity to befriend a powerful Druid who could be convinced to cast a high level Greater Magic Fang which could be combined with Permanency to make the Rogue's claw attacks respectable compared with magic items. Permanency could come from a sorcerer/wizard, or UMD from a scroll...actually it would be cheaper just to hire someone to cast Permanency.

Consider leaving a wand of greater polymorph with a few charges lying around. And maybe some items to improve or give natural attacks (like a Helm of the Mammoth Lords, or Pelt of the Beast). Just make sure the player knows that only one type of natural attack gets full BAB and the rest are secondary natural attacks.

And if you want to be way too nice, let the rogue use Rogue's Finesse on "natural attacks" instead of "Claws". It should be one type of natural attack, but...


TheGreatWot wrote:

Spells that exist purely to inflict pain for the purpose of torture (the

Interrogation spell) have the evil descriptor. I'd say that that's good grounds to say that torture is evil.

Oddly enough, though... Pain Strike has the evil descriptor and Howling Agony doesn't. :p

Additionally, due to the Sense Motive skill, torture IS a reliable way to tell if someone's telling the truth. Just pump your sense motive rolls, torture away, and see when they lie.

Any GM would be absolutely justified in telling you "You sense the subject is under a lot of duress to provide you an answer. They want you to believe them." and not tell you if it is the truth or not, because that *is* their motive.

Sense Motive tells you about their mental state, not whether something is factual or not. And you are using torture to force them into a mental state where they should be willing to tell you anything to get you to stop.


Wouldn't DOOMGUY just be a Ranger?
Archetype: Demonslayer + Cinderwalker Combat Style: Menacing.
1st favored enemy: Outsiders(evil), 2nd favored enemy: humans.

Throw in a feat for Heavy Armor Proficiency, and Technologist. Have the GM promise you that someday you'll find a magic Chainsaw and spend the feat when you can to use the exotic weapon. Also consider picking up Firearms proficiency.

Though really for fantasy DOOMGUY you could just be wearing a Full Plate armor made from some exotic material. Noqual would look right. So would Green Dragonhide. Adamantine is a good choice, but if you go there you might consider going for a high tech armor.

Then use whatever weapons you can gain from the demons you fight plus what their victims leave behind. AKA: normal adventuring.


...fighters have plenty of bonus feats. And getting +1 to hit isn't a waste of a feat. There are even ways to broaden out weapon focus to cover an entire weapons training category.

I find it extremely unlikely Piazo is going to make any such changes.


PossibleCabbage wrote:

One problem with these "Batman" and "Gomez Addams"is that neither of those characters exist in settings where morality is a universal, objective, and discoverable thing, unlike Pathfinder in which "detect evil" is readily available.

Any character that exists in such a universe as Pathfinder would have different assumptions about the morality of their actions.

I'd argue the real issue is the reverse. The categories are just bins that don't fit complex personalities. Unless you write a 2 dimensional cartoon of a character, you're going to perform actions that don't fit in your alignment.

In a most extreme argument, fighting is not a good action. So using an at best neutral action to overcome evil beings isn't a good action. Or in other words, the very profession of 'Adventuring' which centers on fighting things isn't a profession for good beings. The constant fighting and killing should disqualify adventurers from being good.

So we have to make the pathfinder justification that fighting is outside of the moral system. Which brings up the ugly argument that the ends justify the means. Which brings up this topic, that torture could be for a good cause.

And the best rebuttal I can think of is an old English proverb. "The road to Hell is paved in good intentions." Evil actions are evil, no matter the justification.


lemeres wrote:


Anyway, on batman- batman falls far, far more heavily the purely lawful side.

You mean the guy that hides his identity to avoid reprisals? The man that routeenly commits breaking and entering, trespass, carries illegal weapons, assaults people without warning, kidnaps people, evades the police, violates people's privacy, operates an unlicensed armed vehicle on public roads in an unsafe manner, violates airspace laws, and has done large scale construction without permits is LAWFUL?

Batman is Chaotic Neutral. And quite insane. Laws are for other people. Not for Batman.


Melkiador wrote:
There are also characters who mostly only use torture for fun. Like Gomez Addams, who is most often portrayed as chaotic good.

Nobody in the Addams family is 'good'. Just because you are evil it doesn't mean you can't be nice to people. As soon as Gomez thinks of someone as an enemy he stops being nice. He doesn't stop being fun though. You can be evil and dastardly with a sense of humor, style and grace.


Torture is a definite evil act. There is no getting around that in Pathfinder.

Committing a few evil acts won't change your alignment. It will cause a Paladin to fall since their code of conduct is much stricter than alignment.

Committing evil acts without justification should instantly change your alignment. Good beings need to try to justify (i.e. bluff) the act to themselves as being 'for the greater good' somehow. That is a lie, but its one they need to believe to remain good.

But if a character continues to commit evil acts, no matter the justification their alignment should reflect the majority of the character's actions. So if our LG Inquisitor continues to torture every accused person brought before him, his alignment should slip towards evil until his actions change towards committing good acts.


Melkiador wrote:
Asmodeus' Advocate wrote:
Two feats (combat reflexes and power attack) for effective infinite AC? I call that a win. (And also poor tactics on the GM's part.)
I never said you shouldn’t give your cleric a reach weapon. You really don’t even need combat reflexes most days. The point was that investing in being good at fighting with a cleric is ultimately a waste of a build. As it will take up a large amount of your build, but be a small amount of your combat actions.

Last AP I ran a player made a heavy flail wielding evangelist cleric of Groetus that used his destruction domain powers to good effect. He would hit for 75-150 damage a round and provide group buffs to hit, damage and auto confirm crits (for opponents too).

While it wasn't as good as a dedicated melee build, this was a fully functional caster. The main drawback was the 2 rounds of buffing the character needed every combat. But if it had been a casting cleric, it would of still been 2 rounds of buffing and then using spell resources instead of synergizing his melee attacks with his domain powers.

If you plan on doing 3-4 combats per day, you don't need to pace yourself as a full caster. If you plan on finishing a full dungeon you should come up with something to do besides cast spells but still be combat effective. Melee for a 3/4 BAB class doesn't require a huge amount of investment to be functional.


1: In most cases where Mastercrafted versions of items exist, you are required to start with a Mastercrafted item to enchant. Clothing doesn't really have mastercrated versions. But you should pay for a robe, or craft it yourself. A robe of eyes has a certain look to it, the GM might require you buy an expensive patterened robe that looks right. That shouldn't cost more than 500gp.

2: Yes, when you obtain a magic item you can use it unless the item or another rule conflicts. In the case of your robe of eyes, you can use it immediately. Look at Using Magic Items for some common rules of when you can't use a magic item.

2a: You can create magic items above your caster level, except for spell completion and spell trigger type items. Since a Robe of Eyes has continuous effects, as long as your CL 5 caster can make the crafting DC needed (including any penalties from missing prerequisites) and pay the creation cost you can attempt to make the robe.

3: Depends on the item being made. For spell completion/spell trigger items like wands, scrolls and potions you can make them anywhere from your current CL down to the minimum level to cast the spell. You can't go below that, and for those items you must be able to cast the spell to make the item. Also for spell completion/trigger items you can't make items with a CL higher than your own.

For other items the CL is set. You can't lower the CL of a Robe of Eyes. Well, there is a very clumsy FAQ answer where it babels on about lowering the CL of a Pearl of Power to the minimum needed to cast the spell. Now how that applies to other items would be a headache to mess around with.

If the GM allows the CL of an item to be lowered, I wouldn't lower the DC needed to create it. Also the cost shouldn't be adjusted because the item still functions the same as it would otherwise. Lowering the CL just makes the item more vulnerable to dispel magic which is at best a minor inconvenience.


Not an official ruling that I'm aware of but let me try to explain a few things.

Hidden Weapons are made to pass inspections without being found out. As such, the main objective is getting the weapon past a close inspection. The goal isn't to make it an easy to draw weapon. So the slight of hand rules on this reflect that there might be some sort of tricky locking mechanism that prevents the blade from being discovered by a close inspection.

Palming a weapon is drawing a light weapon from a normal sheath and readying it for use. This should be treated as the weapon being 'hidden' for this round. And just like the hiding rules in stealth, if it isn't behind some sort of concealment by the end of your turn everybody should see it. The same sort of concealment should apply to hidden weapons.

Concealment can come from all sorts of things. Tables, cloaks, long sleeves, fog, even shadows. Personally I'd require a skill contest between slight of hand and perception modified by circumstances.

Deft Palm: That would eliminate the need for concealment. You still need to draw the weapon.

And if the weapon is the size of a coin or smaller you can use slight of hand to hide it without deft palm.

As for hiding weapons on your body, that should be handled by other skills. Slight of Hand is for moving objects about. Disguise would be better for concealing weapons from sight.


PFSRD wrote:
You make yourself – including clothing, armor, weapons, and equipment – look different. You can seem 1 foot shorter or taller, thin, fat, or in between. You cannot change your creature type (although you can appear as another subtype). Otherwise, the extent of the apparent change is up to you. You could add or obscure a minor feature or look like an entirely different person or gender.

The parameters are 1 foot height difference, weight change, and the same creature type. "the extent of the apparent change is up to you" seems to be the part you should focus on.

You can't make yourself look like an outsider, so no devils or celestial. Also no native outsiders so quite a few player races are out also.

But a Strix should be in for any PC that is close to an appropriate size. Just don't expect it to fool Strix for long, since the race gets a bonus vs illusions.

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