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The party of 20th level adventurers recently discovered their long running nemesis is on the cusp of summoning an Elder God. Most embarrassingly, his super secret lair is actually in the secret escape tunnel from the hidden castle the Hero Party lives in. (The nemisis' construction company was the lowest bidder)

While the Hero Party was able to kill their nemesis, his death was the final component in the ritual. The entire hero party is fighting against hordes of lesser...things. From Beyond. Don't look at them, you'll go funny and then you'll become useless. Quick, all of you squires run up to the Wizards Lab and grab everything from the Sealed Refrigerator of Secrets and return immediately.

In the Refrigerator is a bunch of different parts from...difficult to identify monsters. None of it looks pleasant. One item in particular stands out. There is a plate with a broken and slightly blackened bone on it that has a sign that says "Under no circumstances is this to be removed from this Refrigerator."

Whatever choice the players make, it is the wrong choice. The Hero Party ignores anything they say, take the items, and either curses them for not bringing everything, or says the squires have doomed them all. Then giant tentacles flood from the portal enveloping the Hero Party and pushing the squires back before they retract into the portal and the portal closes (or doesn't close).


When it comes to a full caster, there are 3 major things to consider. Level, preparation, and items.

At low levels, AC is going to be fairly important. The higher level your caster is, the more foolish it is to chase AC. Why? Because at the high end of the game serious monsters can hit the best armored PC with near 100% accuracy. Do not chase AC. Spend your resources on other kinds of defense. Miss chance is a staple of caster defense. Making sure you can't be reached or attacked is even better. Often your best defense isn't buffing yourself, but rather enabling party members to be more active (and more threatening than yourself), or incapable of reacting to you (confusion, blind, stunned, paralyzed, ect).

All spells have a duration. Some defensive spells have very long duration. However, the best defensive spells usually won't last more than 1 encounter. Also there are a ton of janky defensive spells that are only good in a special situation. But when that situation comes up they make a huge difference. If you prepare spells, your selection can make a huge difference. And making the right selection means gathering information about your intended target. Being prepared means obtaining as many different spells as you can, and making sure you can cast them when the situation calls for it. Taking abilities that make your casting more flexible will save you a ton of grief.

Which leads us into items. Scrolls, wands and potions are temporary solutions to spell availability. Scrolls are useful to take care of situations where a single casting of a spell that isn't very useful but might be needed. Scrolls aren't very good for defensive spells you'll need to use multiple times in an encounter, and for those sorts of spells wands are much better. While the most common potions are healing, being able to spread around low level potions like Delay Poison can save you from a lot of headache when you run into the right situation where the entire group needs some insurance.

Items are also more of a long term solution to defensive spells. A large number of defensive items give their effects all day long. Even those with limited use still free up your spell casting abilities. And while Communal Energy Resistance is probably better than what you'll find in an item, if your group uses decent resistance gear for whatever you commonly run into (like fire), that will let you judge whether you need 40 resist for this encounter or you can hold on to it for later.

Of course items come with gold, and gold comes with levels. More important than relying on items, levels, or even spells is making sure you make good choices in positioning and your own tactics. Most of the time casters don't need to be close to the enemy. Stay close enough that the party can support you, and you can support them. Being far away from the enemy isn't always a good defense. Sometimes that is just a good way to get surrounded. As with anything Pathfinder, be flexible and react to the situation. Having a well prepared full caster should let you take appropriate action. Just try to solve most of your problems with your head and feat instead of with spells. You only have so many spells per day and the sooner you use them up the faster you become a liability holding everyone back from adventuring. Being smart lets you be more durable, in every sense of the word.


Doppleman wrote:


The prices seem very cheap for granting a spell for a free action or swift action. I couldn't find rules that allows to craft this kind of items. Are there like very few items that do that, are "unique" and that we can't craft anything similar? Of course I could just craft them as they are, but the joy of crafting is making something new. I would love a free action whatever spell for 10 rounds.

The closest way to do what you are suggesting is to create an item that is both "continuous" and "charged". So re-creating the Boots of Haste with that in mind that would be 10 rounds of haste per day. That could be 10 charges (zero discount), at 1 round each. But that seems horribly inefficient.

Instead lets try a different method. The spell itself has a normal duration of CL. Minimum CL is 5. If we make it a CL of 10 then we could just use a single charge per day and throw in the 10 rounds can be used separately for free as a bonus effect.

Cost wise that is casting a 3rd level spell (haste), as a 10th level caster with continuous activation (x2000), but 1 charge per day (1/5th). So 3x10x2000/5=12,000. Boots of Speed happen to cost 12k,and be CL 10. So the though process seems to match with the designers.

Of course you have to look at what the item actually does before approving of the final pricing. If it seems too good, up the price. If it seems horrible for the price, reduce it. And don't allow anything game breaking. That is all basic of basics for magic item creation and custom items.

Also as a GM I strongly suggest adding in a cost to research new items. New spells require research costs, the same should apply to creating never seen before magic items. I'd use the spell research rules as a guideline.


Opuk0 wrote:

What I was trying to get at was whether it was more realistic/feasible for a pirate ship to have cannons or mages.

With what everyone's said, the answer is mages don't exist in high seas settings.

No, what people are saying is the economics of finding high level mages to man a pirate ship are not favorable. If you look around for 1-3rd level hirelings you should be able to find a fair amount of them. The higher level you look for, the less you'll find.

And when you start looking at casters they generally wanted to be treated as something special. They aren't 2 silver a day common laborers. They aren't going to be satisfied with 1 share of plunder. Any caster that would be useful enough to replace a cannon would probably want an equal share of all treasure as a party member.

Now if you want to ask if magic items could replace a cannon, the answer is yes. If you need 3 cannons to fire every round, that would be 18k plus the cost of ammo. A wand of fireballs would be 11,250gp for a 5d6, or 12k for a 6d6 fireball wand. A Staff of Fire would be almost 19k and would let you use 5 fireballs at wielder's CL before you empty it of charges. Not quite as reliable as a wand, but free recharging and it scales.

And instead of just hitting the other ship like a cannon, magic items can be used to defend your ship. A wand of Fog Cloud can be a cheap and highly available defense that lets you close with enemy ships.

Focus on using magic items that run in the same price range as the cannons instead of hiring casters to replace the cannon crew. The extra bonus to using magic items instead of cannons is you take the items with you when adventuring on land. So if someone boards you ship while your off plundering, you don't have to worry about enemies using your own cannons against you.


I think you need to consider what to do with your Gunslinger long term. If you are going to stick with Gunslinger all the way, then plan out your deeds and feats. Then ask yourself how you'll deal with things such as invisibility, flying opponents, regeneration, and other commonly annoying opponents. Focus on getting items to help you overcome situations where you normally rely on casters. You also might look into the Item Mastery feats.

A lot of people multiclass after 5th level. Higher level deeds are interesting, but honestly other classes become more attractive after getting dex to damage. Depending on what second class you go into (or series of classes) you could gain a lot of interesting abilities.

If you went for a Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger, you could do Oracle or Sorcerer for a second class have have decent stats for both. Or you could stick with the vanilla Gunslinger and have good stats for a cleric, or monk. Fighter and any other full BAB classes would be a natural as well. A rather strange idea would be to head into Kinetisist to add energy damage to your gun. That means picking up a channeling enchantment for your gun.

If you like the Item Mastery feats you could do a very strange build where you dip into a bunch of full BAB classes that have fortitude as one of their good saves. If you don't mind being Lawful Good you could be a Mysterious Stranger 5/Paladin 2 that would get amazing saves from your charisma. Then add in more 1 level dips with the goal of getting a base +12 Fortitude save so you're Item Mastery feats are fully powered. If you choose mostly classes that give you 2 good saves you could have an excellent reflex or will save as well.


Entymal wrote:


Any thoughts on how I can prevent this last character from dying without breaking immersion?

A raspy voice talks from the shadows "A necromancer dares to intrude upon this place? Interesting. I take it you are not here to serve the master of these grand halls?" You feel a tinge of sarcasm and mirth from the voice. "I take it that things have not gone as you expected? While it would be trivial for me to end your life here and now... if you are willing to become my ally I'll assist you in escaping from this place. In return you'll gather a few things for me. And then you'll clear these ruins, probably what you were intending to do in the first place, correct? So what do you say?"

The new ally is something that can use arcane magic that doesn't seem too out of place in this setting. The being stuffs the wizard and zombie into a portable hole filled with...unknown objects. Paper. Glass. Wood. Leather. Every few minutes the Wizard feels a sense of vertigo and there is a puff of fresh air. After what feels like an eternity several heavy objects get slumped into the room. A short time later the Wizard is lead out into a much better smelling place that feels like the outdoors. The being then cures the Wizard's blindness where he can see the remains of his companions and their gear piled in a clearing (bags of holding piled separately from the rest).

"The city of <insert here> lies a mile in that direction. From there I need you to acquire two things. First find a cleric that can cast Holy Word. Tempt him into cast the spell into this bottle and then place the stopper. Make sure the bottle does not break. Oh, and don't play with it. The bottle will only work once. Then seek out a wizard named Gradis. Seek to copy the spell Plundered Power from his collection. Here is ink and paper to prepare my copy. Also use these coins to carry out my will. After you have accomplished those tasks return here. I will leave a servant to collect the goods. If you do well, I will aid you. Betray me and... well... I'm sure you can guess."

The 'ally' should be on par with the BBG from the dungeon. But when you count the BBGs minions the ally shouldn't be able to safely fight the BBG. If the party turns against him, it should be a fight. The ally is an evil being, but the party is willing to put up with a necromancer so this shouldn't be too much of a risk for the ally. Also the ally has a teleport ready just in case. The ally is willing to 'betray' the BBG and help the party if they will help him capture the BBG alive. He intends to use the Plundered Power on the BBG (and others) if the BBG has such a power. Otherwise the ally is actually seeking to take over the complex for his own use. Among the ally's posessions is a portable hole filled with his research material.


If you want to pick up knowledge skills you might consider prepping your character to become a Loremaster. You can dump 7 ranks into the knowledge skills you want to have, and when you pick up the prestige class you'll get the class skill bonus.

Honestly you only want a 1 level dip into this prestige class. That way you get the skills, and you get the Secret class feature. The Secret class feature itself isn't a big deal. At best its a free feat. But it qualifies you to take the feat Secret of Magical Discipline which will let you trade one of your prepared spells for any other spell of the same level. Off of any spell list. You can take the feat multiple times to get more uses of that ability.

And after you take that one level dip that gives you what you really want, go back to advancing druid because the Druid's non-spell casting abilities are better than what Loremaster offers. Loremaster is a decent dip because it continues your Druid spell progression, but doesn't really offer enough for you to continue down the path in my opinion.


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Chris Kanone wrote:

As one member of the party Deathstern mentioned (I play an Oath of Vengeance Paladin) I feel the need to explain the situation in more detail.

Your details lack any useful details. Honestly sounds more like excuses and posturing.

1) If the wizard is too much for you to handle, hand it off or just kick the character from the campaign. If it is too hard, do something about it. Don't use that as an excuse.

2) Is this really suppose to explain anything? Like why exactly is a full BAB ranged damage dealer suppose to avoid doing his role? And how does a grab do fire damage? If this is Kanone's idea of an explanation I can understand why other people would be frustrated.

3) I don't know if a single buff would of prevented the Gunslinger from dying or not, but how much of your party resources are you going to have to spend to bring back a dead party member? I'm sure its probably more expensive in time and gold than whatever buff the wizard might of been able to use.

Even if you hate Deathstern's build, using some of the wizards spell power to make up for his deficiencies isn't a waste of time. If you feel he doesn't have enough HP to survive an encounter cast a displacement on him or something else that will mitigate a lot of damage. Or since you were talking about making magic items maybe upgrade his belt to +6 con? That is 3 times as effective as spending a feat on Toughness and by 15th level cheap even as a 2 stat belt.

Honestly with Kanone's attitude I really hope the BBG of the campaign has an absurd AC and the only party member that can actually hit it is the Gunslinger. The whole "the random encounter looked really harmless to me and the bloodrager, and that I did not know that the gunslinger would attack with his really low damage against a tree and therefore would die." thing is really rude.


Ah, 3.0 D&D. So much wrong never felt so right. One of my favorite 'tricks' from the 3.0 days that was much joked about but never used was the "Market Day Teleport".

Back in 3.0 Greater Cleave let you take a 5' step if you killed an opponent with your cleave. Cleave let you make a melee attack if you killed an opponent. So naturally if you were in a major city and you absolutely positively needed to be somewhere now you could great cleave you way through crowds of 0 level NPCs at the same speed as a teleport and you didn't even need to have ever visited or seen the destination.

And this could be combined with a bag of rats to help you get past gaps in the crowd.


I'd agree with bard. Make her a Flame Dancer.


Well, taking advantage of that talent in the long run will be difficult for a pure caster. Also you want to be a front line kind of caster...that kind of says cleric or druid. Avoiding pets and summoning means no druid. Pure cleric isn't so trickster. Also you need skill points to fake being a skill monkey. So...

Goal: Front line caster using Wizard/Sorcerer spells.

First 6 levels: 5 wizard(transmuter), 1 Slayer.
7+: go into Eldritch Knight

This makes you a fairly standard wizard that has a good fortitude save, and a not as good will save. You're also behind 2 caster levels unless you use feats or talents to get them back, and you probably want to spend the 2 feats to keep your wizard progression on track. Transmuter specialized so you can buff yourself more often. You should probably become a bad touch caster.

The other way to go is to pick up Arcane Trickster. First level Rogue. 2-4 Wizard. 5+ Arcane Trickster. You'll need Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat to pull this off. This one leans a lot more strongly into your campaign trait. It also encourages you to do range touch spells on targets within 30' so you can sneak attack them. Or backstab with a touch spell. Adding sneak attack to a Vampiric Touch is a lot of fun.

Honestly, out of the two builds I think the Arcane Trickster would be more fun.


Quixote wrote:


Assuming Str8,you'd have a +6 to hit him with shocking grasp (-1+2+2+3). Versus AC12, you're hitting him 75% of the time.
75% of 6 shocking grasps = 75% of 30d6 = 78.5 on average. Really, I'd expect to miss 1-2 times, for 87.5-70 damage.
So I'd invest in a wand of magic missile to finish the job.

If the wizard missed with a shocking grasp then he should just try another touch attack the next round instead of casting. Touch spells don't get discharged simply because you miss.


Yeah, the best solution is the solve the problem yourself.

If you can take Leadership, do so. Grab a cleric cohort to be your personal buffer. That means spending some of your personal wealth to equip your cohort but it is so worth it. A cleric would be able to cast a few buffs that help the entire party if you wish, or reserve those spells to give you stronger buffs. As a gunslinger you shouldn't have any trouble hitting. Getting more bonuses to hit probably won't help you. But a shield other from the cleric plus some in-combat healing will definitely make you a lot more tanky. Also having resist energy available as needed can make all the difference in the world.

When your cleric is not casting spells the cleric should stick close to you, and probably be performing full defense. The extra AC should be enough to keep the cleric from getting one-shotted by the encounter that is probably way above the NPC's level. Hopefully the GM will ignore the follower a little bit if they don't stand out.


Nothing is free. Eidolon are summoned creatures of the Outsiders type. They are not native Outsiders. As such

Creature Types wrote:
Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep.

And just like other outsiders, they can become fatigued/exhausted unless they have a special ability that says otherwise.

Also recovery from fatigue/exhausted only requires (complete) rest, not sleep. Sleep is a form of rest, but not the only form of rest. Well, at least that is my interpretation. Another interpretation is that unless a creature has an ability that says they can do X instead of sleep, they need to sleep to perform a complete rest.

fatigued wrote:
After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued.
exausted wrote:
After 1 hour of complete rest, an exhausted character becomes fatigued.

D20's collection of rules on Rest and their own suggested house rules


RAWmonger wrote:


It's more a question of how do you reconcile the concept that 'the party members should have equal say and everyone should be having fun' with 'here is a party member who has a dictatorial leadership role (whether he chooses to be benevolent or not, still the exclusive "executive decision maker" role)'

Well, now is the time to do some actual 'politics'. aka make some back door deals, form a coalition, and then inform the 'king' of your group consensus.

Contact the other players outside of game time. Have a character discussion where you bring up the idea that each of you joined the party as equal members and the King was selected by the party, put on the throne by the party, and is only in his position with the support of the party. The adventuring party is greater than the king, and greater than the council that supports his rule. As a matter of fact, its best members should be the party since the AP doesn't provide adventurer-grade NPCs unless your GM decided to improve them (NPC's best bonus should be +3).

Get people on board with having 'the talk' with the king to emphasize that he was put on the throne by the party, and that the party are his greatest supporters. As such, he needs to keep the party happy or he'll be removed from his position by the party. That is the great truth behind any ruler, and your 'king' needs to follow this too. If he keeps upsetting his supporters, he won't last in his position. And the first adaptation the party demands is that any expenditure of BP needs to be put to a high council vote. The high council consists of just the party members, including the king. The king gets the same number of votes as any other party member.

Don't get into an argument with the King. Make sure you've come to an agreement with everybody else, and stick to that agreement. If the King balks, then ask the other party members what they want to do about it. The King shouldn't get any say in this. He needs all of your support, and collectively the party can remove him. Make sure the player 100% understands this. And if he starts talking about treason, just look at him funny and say "who made you the boss? We did. And it looks like we made a mistake. If you can calm down you can help us decide who the next king will be. If you can't handle that, they you can leave. And if you can't handle that, I would rather not kill you, but I will if you want to fight about it. Don't make this ugly and stop being selfish and stupid."

Hopefully your King gets the clue early on in this conversation. But it doesn't sound like he will. Don't start with removing him, let him alienate everyone first before bring that up. It would be better to keep him as King, as long as he realizes that he is less important than the entire party.


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Yqatuba wrote:
A feat that allows a dragon (or other creature with a breath weapon) to change the shape of their breath?

Not really meaning to derail the thread but...the title bothers me a lot. The title has nothing to do with the subject. That means people will either ignore or check this thread because they have no idea what it is about.

The topic of the thread is about Dragon Breath, and either shaping, changing, feats or any number of other words to indicate you want something different than what the bestiary entry says. Enough words related to the topic should be used in the title to give some kind of hint what the thread is about. Without that people will keep checking this thread because they can't remember what it is about even if they have seen it a dozen times.

This is by no means a bad topic, just a bad thread title. And if anyone hasn't guessed, this is a pet peeve of mine. Please take a little more time and try to choose a title that helps people find and remember your topic of discussion. Especially important for frequent posters like Yqatuba.


This is a bit of a ridiculous way to get what you want, but...

if you got a [urlhttps://aonprd.com/ConstructMods.aspx?ItemName=Construct%20Limb]construct limb[/url] you're mechanical limb would count as a heavy shield. Good news: no feats required, but horribly expensive. But if you can afford it, you can even get a construct limb that can perform special attacks or fight for you.


I'm going to suggest an alternative. Instead of going into Rogue to do sneak attack damage, how about going into Magus (Eldritch Archer archetype)? While you won't get sneak attack damage, you'll be able to channel ranged touch spells into your firearm.

The major benefit from taking a 1 level dip into Spellslinger is being able to feed spells to the gun to get an enchantment bonus. While it is heavily implied you need to feed wizard spells to use the Mage Bullets ability, you should be able to convince your GM to allow Magus spells to be used as well. Combined with the Eldritch Archer's ability to burn pool points to enchant their weapon you'll be able to add enchantments like flaming, frost and shocking. If you add all 3 that is an additional +3d6 damage to most targets that doesn't require you hide between shots.

When you get serious you can throw on a Snowball or Shocking Grasp depending on your build. With the appropriate meta magic feats and traits (use extra traits feat to grab Magical Lineage and Wayang Spellhunter) your first level (ranged) touch spell can be set up to do 10d6 and change to acid as a first level spell, or 15d6 as a second level spell. This build does require 4 feats to pull this off (extra traits, Intensify Spell, Empower Spell and Elemental Spell (acid)) which makes the dip into Spellslinger worth it for the extra feats provided.

This build works better with a single firearm. Two guns means burning twice as many resources to enchant both barrels, and 4 swift actions instead of 2. If you start as a 5th level character see if you can afford a +1 shadowshooting musket. That will save you from reloading. Even if creatures disbelieve your musket damage, the damage from all of your other sources should be unaffected.

Most rounds you'll use 1 normal shot, then 1 spell combat shot. Probably from Icy Ray or Acid Splash. Once you get a lot more feats you'll be able to take Rapid Fire for a 3rd shot. You could sacrifice some of the feats used for metamagic to get Rapid Fire earlier. Like taking the traits as your starting traits and skipping Elemental Spell or Empower spell. If you do that you'll start with 3 attacks per round at -4. Not bad, but 2 attacks at -2 might be better.

Something to point out is this build doesn't need a high int. If you get a 14 int you should be able to afford an item to boost int before it becomes a problem. Spend more stat points on dex and con will go a lot further than int for this sort of build.


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I think OP needs to talk to the other players and get a feeling if they are fed up by the Paladin's actions or not. If they are, the next time the party is in town arrange for the entire party to give him "the talk". Bring up how he isn't fitting in, specific examples of what kinds of actions the party as a whole don't agree with, and get his side of those incidents. In character, talk it out.

Then after you vented the list of grievances see if the Paladin can come to an understanding with the party. If the character backslides, then invite him to leave. The paladin doesn't need to die to be removed from the party.

Act like the paladin is a living breathing person that has gone with you into deadly situations as an ally. Don't get all murder hobo for no good reason. Let the other guy do that. Let him be the one to have to explain why his LG paladin turned against his allies.

But as an aside, spend some gold on spells. Not scrolls, just spells. Wizards do let people copy from their books for reasonable prices.


Blue_Sky wrote:
I love the Asura from Guild Wars 2, gnomish engineers from World of Warcraft, and the old Dragonlance tales of Mt. Nevermind.

I'm just going to point out that before WoW the dwarves made all of the gadgets in Warcraft. Dwarf musket troops, dwarf gyro-copters, dwarf balloons and dwarf zeppelins.

If you want to make a dwarf tinkerer then you might consider a Forgemaster. While you give up channeling, you get a lot of crafting benefits. While a dwarf wizard could be faster than a forgemaster at making a single kind of item, it would take 10 levels and be limited to a single crafting feat. The Forgemaster would get his benefit on any magic item made from metal.

Let me give a quick example. Lets say you want to create a 20,000gp golem that uses metal parts. Normally that would be 20 days to create at 1,000 gp per day. Any crafter can add 1000 gp per day to their rate of crafting for +5 DC, so 10 days if you double the rate per day.

A Forgemaster halves the time to create the item as long as its made from metal. So you go from 20/10 days to 10/5 days to craft the item.

For your dwarven wizard to make the sale golem in 5 days he'd need a crafting rate of 4,000 gp per day. He can achieve 2k per day without his favored class bonus. And he needs 10 levels worth of the favored class bonus to get the remaining 2k per day.


I never play the same character twice. Every character has to have a different set of skills/abilities/powers. Personality is generally different, though I've noticed myself fall into a rut and not stick to the character on the sheet in the past. I feel I've gotten better about sticking to character with time.

But really the quirk is I don't want to reprise a previously played character unless it is the same character picked up from the last time I played him (or her).


mjmeans wrote:


So basically the spell creates a two step test:

1. Would the result of the spell allow the caster to gain any information about the target protected by Mind Blank?

2. Was the magic or item used a divination (school), wish, limited wish, miracle, etc.?

You're step 1 is faulty. Mind Blank specifies "used in such a way as to gain information about the target."

That means if someone casts a spell to "see where MB ate dinner last night" the spell would fail because it directly involves MB. On the other hand if someone used a crystal ball to scry Gary, who happens to be next to MB they would see Gary, and they wouldn't see MB because this is a divination. If they watched long enough they might see some objects moving strangely because MB interacts with them, and if there was a place card in front of MB they could read his name off of it because the place card isn't protected by mind blank. Also if they had the telepathy option on the crystal ball they could contact Gary and ask Gary who is moving around the plate next to them and Gary could answer "MB" because MB isn't being targeted by a spell at all.


As David Justice already suggested, Cloak of the Hedgewizard is a must. I think the Evocation version is best for this since using light at will helps carry the image of a wizard as much as prestidigitation.

While it is expensive, a Ring of Telekinesis is an unlimited use item that makes you feel like a wizard. It combines a decent offense with a good utility spell. It can also fake a mage hand or sort of emulate an unseen servant.

If you want to be a blaster, you can go 'cheap' with a crown of blasting. Or you can go super expensive with a Helm of Brilliance. The Helm of Brilliance is a lot more convincing.

A necklace of fireballs is an even cheaper alternative. A slight of hand check would make it look a lot more convincing.

Vambraces of the Genie have a lot of once a day use spell effects.

And a pair of Winged Boots are a lot more convincing than Boots of Teleportation. Mainly because flying is a lot less situational than teleportation. Though the character could own both.

Also various Rods would be useful. The Rod of Wonder is of particular interest...


Cevah wrote:

20' because the spell also changes your equipment to still fit you.

/cevah

How do you get that? From my thinking you're using a reach weapon that normally gives you a 10'. That is normal reach for a small or medium sized creature.

You enlarge to Large size. You have a base 10' reach, and a large sized reach weapon still gives the same extra 5' reach so you get out to 15'. Or am I wrong about that 5' reach for a large reach weapon and its actually 10'?

If that was the case then wouldn't it create this range at 15' where a large creature can't hit an opponent with either a reach weapon or a normal weapon because there is a gap where neither of them cover?


There have been certain defenses that only work on ray attacks, so being a ray has its disadvantages too.


Derklord wrote:

Good points, thank you for the corrections.

You can only swap one feat, every four levels (shame you can't swap one every other level, like how it works for spells known), but yeah, for a Fighter it's probably not bad for the first three (or possibly even seven) levels.

I would swear you could retrain every level. And obviously I'm wrong. But 4 is a convenient level to be able to switch out a feat.


Well, no. According to Unarmed Attacks if you have certain feats or class features you can be considered 'armed'. That isn't the same as wielding a weapon.

This would go a lot smoother if you just gave a concrete example of what you are thinking so we can actually look at what you really want to ask instead of hypotheticals.


Something important things to mention about Japanese religion: A large portion of it is ancestor worship. Previous generations of the family receive gifts and prayers, with the expectation that the ancestors will watch over the family and continue to support them.

Also Japan is called the 'Land of 10,000 Gods'. The Japanese people have traditionally been very superstitious (who isn't?), and if a story catches on people will create a shrine towards it and enshrine a deity. If the shrine gets a decent following (enough to support a priest), someone will move in and become the priest for that shrine. Eventually the Shrine will be expanded to become a temple and the priests could try to spread the religion by creating more shrines and temples.

While there are major religious figures in Japanese Mythology, there are far more minor figures that are really only known to the people that live around their shrines.

Also Japanese gods are more focused. Each god is interested in certain activities. If you want good fortune, you pick a deity appropriate to what you want and make an offering. And if you look hard enough you can find a deity to just about anything.


Derklord wrote:


3) Archery heavily rewards focussation - if you want to be good at it, go all-in. At as early as 5th level you can have Point Blank Master, which makes switching to a melee weapon redundant, even if you're toe to toe with an enemy. Right now, you may be reasonably good at both melee and archery, but once you start to gather magic items, you have to decide which of the two to focus on. A backup ranged weapon is indeed a good idea, but investing too much into it isn't.
4) Cleave is crap, because it's too situational to compete with the full attacks that you will be making later on. Just as a precaution, Vital Strike sucks as well, for the same reason.

So fighters have an ability that lets them change a feat each time they level up. So that means you can afford to take a feat like cleave early when it is actually useful and get rid of it when it starts to lose effectiveness.

It also lets you gain Point Blank Master at level 4 if you take weapon specialization as your bonus feat and then switch one of your other feats to PBM. Free retraining isn't a huge ability, but it has its uses.


Oh, and I forgot to mention the bow. Get a +1 adaptive composite longbow as soon as you can afford it. When you move to improve the weapon, the first enchant you want is Seeking. Seeking basically lets you ignore cover. Invisibility is cover. As long as you choose the right square the Seeking arrow will let you negate the 50% miss chance. Also Seeking lets you bypass Mirror Image. Really, Seeking is the best bow enchantment.


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If you are planning on being a wall that the rest of the party can hide behind you should switch up some. A two handed weapon without reach isn't doing much for you. You get +1 damage from strength, and +1/2 from power attack. That power attack bonus scales well as you go up, but... lets just say going 1 of 3 routes would be more beneficial.

First route: Get a shield. As you gain levels the ability of bad guys, especially single monster encounters, to hit you will increase fast. Being able to get 2+ enhancement bonus from a shield helps a lot to cut down the damage you take. If you want to be a rock, you should do that. For a weapon I'd recommend staying with a high crit range weapon. Moving from a d6 to a d8 won't matter in the long run as much as having an 18-20 crit range.

Second route: Get a reach weapon. If you move to any two handed weapon with reach you become a better wall. Now monsters have to move further around you to avoid your attacks. If you go this route, you need combat reflexes and to pick a feat that will let you stop things from just running past you. You can still keep the crit range with a good selection of weapon. You'll also keep the two-handed damage.

Third route: Switch to Bow. You have good stats for an archery build. Archery builds aren't normally a front line kind of thing, but a fighter can make it work. It really depends on having point blank mastery so you can keep using your preferred weapon while threatened by opponents. The archery fighter/tank has 3 advantages.

First advantage: You almost never need to move. Sure if there is a choke point you should get your heavily armored ass over there first round and body block. You should also be the front of your party's marching order. Once you get positioned, just full attack every round.

Second advantage: you can reach everything. Enemy has a spell caster? No problem. Enemy flies? No problem. Enemy has a 50' reach? So?

Third advantage: Threat. A fighter only threatens things in his reach. Well, you should establish immediately that you are a threat by pumping your enemies full of arrows. Maybe the enemy feel that the ranger behind you is an equal threat, but they have to run past you to get to him.

I think others will talk about shield and reach, so let me give advice on archery fighter. Each level you can switch out a feat you have for a feat you qualify for. So at 4th level take weapon specialization: composite longbow and switch your weapon focus to Point Blank Mastery. If the GM will let you switch out cleave and power attack for precise shot and rapid shot. I'd also recommend switching out dodge for deadly aim but I can understand why you'd want to avoid that. Get multishot when you can. Stick to heavy armor.

Regardless of what route you decide to take, aim to get gloves of dueling as soon as you can. This item basically gives you +2 to hit and damage with your favorite weapons and is one of the ways fighters out perform other melee classes.


He stopped the game? That needs more explanation. It isn't a power thing, but rather is he getting in the way of the other players for selfish reasons? If he is showboating, kick him from the table.

Eidolon are limited by the PCs level. While there are items that boost their ability, they shouldn't be more powerful than another combat focused player (that bothers to make smart decisions).

Generally speaking, players shouldn't be able to afford constructs that are more powerful than the PC. This implies to me that the GM is giving out too much treasure, or the construct building player is exploiting like mad and the GM is allowing it. By design the construct system is a thing GMs use for monsters and players should find it just too expensive to get a real benefit from it.

One thing that shouldn't be allowed is the creation of a Trompe l'Oeil. Simply put the construction rules for them are utterly broken and under priced. RAW they can wreck a campaign. It is the same as allowing simulacrum of Glabrezu to give wishes to the creator with no strings attached. By RAW it certainly works, and if that is how you want to end your campaign by all means do it. After all, you've just allowed an unlimited production of wishes that can be used to create more wishes at no cost.

Even if something is RAW, sometimes RAW is bad for a game. That is a major reason why the GM can override the rules, because they are suppose to keep the game enjoyable for all of the players.


Saying you want to be a barbarian/monk is very non-specific. Why do you want levels in barbarian and monk? What do you want the character to do? Mechanically.

Single class characters are more powerful than multi-classed characters. The exception to that is when you multi-class for a purpose. Identify the purpose and then lets see if we can build an idea character to fulfill that purpose. And there is a very, very good chance that the finished character will not be a barbarian/monk.

Especially considering that Monks must be lawful or they become ex-monks, and Barbarians must be not lawful. So that means the character is capped on one of the classes and possibly can't rage.

So back to the big question: what do you want your barbarian/monk to do? Is this a grappler? Is this a punching guy? Fastest runner in Galorian? Why that combination of classes? What should that do for you?


Since we're talking about slots, lets talk about the downsides of the current system. Because certain bonuses are mostly restricted to certain slots it means there are 'best items' that more or less make other items in the same slot meaningless.

The biggest offender is the shoulder slot. Resistance bonus to saves is just too strong to ignore. Which makes all of those other cloaks trash. Either they include a resistance bonus, you pay extra to add resistance, or you walk around as person with the worst saves in your group. And there are a lot of nifty cloaks that do unique things. Passing them up for a boring +save item is painful.

One thing I'd recommend is if you want to allow your players to use other slots, tell them its ok to ask about creating items in different slots. Sure they need your approval, but its possible.

I'd also recommend making a group of slots that have similar attributes. Like thinking that shoulder, body and chest items are very similar so most items from one slot could probably be made for the other two as well. Most necklaces could also be headbands, maybe helmets and you might even consider eye slot depending on what the item does. Wrist, Ring and Hand items should be very similar. Foot items are generally going to be stuck in the foot slot, but specific items might feel appropriate for other slots.

One thing you could do for anyone that takes Forge Ring is allow that feat to make items other than rings. Basically if you want to take a ring and move it to a different slot, you need Forge Ring not Wonderous Item. That adds more utility to the very limited Forge Ring feat. On the other hand if you want to move a Wonderous Item to the Ring slot, I'd still insist on Forge Ring since that feat does so little.

Then again, if I was going to do a lot of house ruling I'd condense craft wand/staff/rod into a single feat. Make potions and scrolls a single skill. Maybe split Wonderous Item into two or three feats. Leave Weapons and Armor alone. The way those feats were created to mirror the loot tables is an injustice.


Dark Immortal wrote:

@Meirril

I guess that changing my mind on some rules presented means that my mind was already made up. *shrug* Ok. I'm fine with you holding that belief.

I 100% have a bias. I agree with you. I did mix rules and science and because some things were ambiguous or seemed ambiguous, I referenced them because those are, in fact, the issues. I don't deny any of those things. I decided to post here regardless of my bias because I wanted to clarify the ambiguities.

@Dark Immortal

Nobody else that has posted in this thread cares if your trick works or not. Nobody has a reason to make it fail. Quite a few people have looked at it and given an opinion that it doesn't all mesh together the way you propose it to in RAW. I believe it fails in RAI as well. Nobody other than Dark Immortal has stepped forward to defend it. If I did believe that this trick works by RAW I certainly would back you on this.

While Dark Immortal probably doesn't want to concede this, I believe his own vested interest is coloring his judgement.

If anyone else reading this thread does believe the combination of Branch Pounce and Dragonfly Flight (with or without Rhino Charge) lets someone jump upward and use all of the height gained to deliver an additional 1d6 damage per 10' of height to a gliding charge while taking no fall damage to the charger it would be a good time to support that argument. And if there are conditions needed for this, please explain them in your reply.


Dark Immortal wrote:
PS. @Meirril Pointing out that DR doesn't apply to falling damage as a means to support your point while conveniently leaving out the list of other things that do apply to falling damage and not resolving them wasn't a fair way to make said point. The intent behind listing DR was clear- to demonstrate multiple ways that damage could not happen to a character and to illustrate why it was absurd to then grant that power to the target of your attack and how the reasoning behind such statements was inherently flawed. If I took all the interpretations from others and applied them as truth, a player would have to climb 30' onto a roof or into a tree, hang upside down while spider climbing to ambush the enemy by jumping down on a charge, and if he makes his acrobatics checks using those rules and the feat to reduce the damage he takes from the fall, he'll deal 1d6 non-lethal damage to himself and fall prone and to his enemy will deal weapon damage + 1d6 nonlethal. He'll have invested 5 feats, skill ranks, magic items and/or spells and prep time to make this happen but if he finds a way to prevent the nonlethal damage to himself, he'll only deal his weapon damage to his opponent- at which point he could have simply charged as normal, invested 0 feats, 0 skills, 0 prep time, 0 gold, 0 spells and/or gear (assuming it's an ambush skill only). This is part of why I find the arguments above absurd. I am not sure I could intentionally build a series of feats that work together and make them function to such a negative effect. And to my knowledge, all of the 'prone shooter' feats have been addressed.

You've pointed out DR, feather fall and glide which you insist doesn't work like feather fall despite what the spell description says. And now you have some theoretical effect that I've never seen before.

As I pointed out, DR doesn't work that way. Apparently you aren't quite as familiar with the falling rules as you should be considering they are central to the topic you are making arguments about.

I'm also going to point out that you came in here with your mind made up. You presented your question and then immediately proceeded to challenge every answer given. Considering how you want to mix rules, science and ambiguities in the rules to defend your position I'm going to say you have a bias, and a vested interest beyond finding a best answer. You should think about that a bit.

If I've missed something, please feel free to point it out. Don't throw up another vague answer that introduces some new pseudo-counter example like you just did. Do include things that actually exist in publication.


Quixote wrote:
MrCharisma wrote:
...you can only enchant it as an amulet...If they like the idea of you having an amulet of Deflection then great.

I'd love to hear the argument against that.

The "inappropriate slot" concept has always baffled me, for the large part. You can have a tiara that grants you a bonus to intelligent or charisma and a necklace that boosts your wisdom, but not the other way around?

Now, if you want boots of force shield or a belt of fog, you get right out. But for the most part, there's a lot of room for flexibility.

The notion centers around certain slots being intended for certain kinds of enchantments, and moving them around allows players to avoid expensive items.

The largest potential exploit would be to use 2 or 3 different slots to get cheap single stat enhancement bonuses instead of being forced to purchase a much more expensive 2 or 3 stat headband (or belt).

Sure there are some items that fall outside of those slots that kind of do what the belts/headbands do, but they lack flexibility. Most of them are only +2 or +4 and they don't have options to go to +6. These items are usually unique and introduced as part of an adventure instead of some stand alone collection of magic items.

Still, the though of moving around enchantments from their usual slots to other slots isn't as egregious as making those items slotless. Slotted items have limits. You're trading away other potential items when you move an item that normally takes up a slot to a different slot. Making them slotless basically means the character can now equip an item that they wouldn't have access to before. Slotless items are priced differently.

For a good example look at the ioun stones that increase stats and also stack with the same stone. If you dig into the costs and compare them with other items that boost stats you'll see that those stones are priced as if you were creating a +6 item, the cost split between the 3 stones.


Drogan Tome wrote:

What I have developed for my game so far are main gods: one of darkness and one of light. These two gods are served by saints who represent the diversity in influence and domains. this is modeled after gods from the Iron Kingdoms setting and Elder Scrolls. These deities operate along the good evil access. these gods are beholden to their faithful and draw a measure of their power from worship.

I think a decent amount of your problem comes from your deities being to vague. Basing a deity around being a paragon of an alignment doesn't really give you any idea of what they, or their worshipers would do.

Deities that are based around having an area of concern are a lot easier to imagine. God of farmers, god of the ocean, god of the winds, sun god, god of celebration, god of disease, god of gambling, god of contracts, god of prosperity. When you see each of these names you can start to imagine what the god is like, and what their followers care about. More than likely if you have a lot of very limited gods most people will spend time worshiping a lot of them, instead of focusing on one.

Who worships the God of Disease? People with diseases, or ill loved ones. Or those that want to curse their enemies. Even some insane people that had a traumatic event involving a disease.

Gods can have multiple concerns. Pathfinder's deities generally have 3 domains. So having 3 different aspects or areas of concern seems natural for all pathfinder related deities. The aspects don't all need to be related. A real world example is Posidon. Sure he is the god of seas, storms and horses. Horses?!? Why? Because somehow sea foam looks like horses. Real world deities are just like that. If you look into Thor's stories he is the God of Thunder, but he also did a lot of drinking, was a very angry guy, fooled some enemies, and at one point cross dressed.

The more 'human' your deities are, the more real they seem. Every deity needs at least one legend you can tell players. And every deity should have some appeal to them. Even Rovagug the Destroyer is a champion for his created races.


It really depends on how serious of a challenge you want it to be.

If this is suppose to be a serious threat to the party, sure. This will still be a medium sized construct, so describing it as being child sized would be a bit strange.

Honestly, finding any of the clockwork style golems that fit at about the CR you want and re-skinning them as a 'flesh golem' should work just fine. I'd keep the flesh golem's vulnerabilities to magic (slowed by cold/fire, haste by lightning). Also the flesh golem's immunizes to magic as well. I'd also make sure it doesn't have more DR than an actual flesh golem. Also remove any special abilities that don't seem appropriate.


Guardianlord wrote:


Goblin Gunslinger to use medium fire lance without penalty.

That doesn't work. Goblin Gunslinger only removes the -2 penalty for using an inappropriately sized weapon. It says nothing about the goblin being able to use medium sized weapons as if they were medium sized.

A small sized creature treats a medium light weapon as one-handed. He treats a medium sized one-handed weapon as a two-handed. And a small creature can't wield a medium sized two-handed weapon unless there is a special rule that explicitly says this character can. The feat Goblin Gunslinger fails to do that.

An interesting side note: If your Goblin manages to become large sized, you still take no size penalties for using medium weapons. This means you could use medium sized pistols as light weapons in this case.


Girdle of Opposite Gender is the granddaddy of gender changing items in D&D.


From a GM perspective, you have to give the players a reason they don't want to be known. Very few campaigns feature powerful groups that act in the same space as the players. It is an even more strange circumstance when the players want to avoid notice. But there are ways to make that more desirable.

Celebrity can be wonderful. It can also be annoying. Have lots of random NPCs trying to have a few words, shake hands, get an autograph, by the party a drink, ask them for lunch or dinner. Have this actually take time the party is trying to use to do something and suddenly that secret identity sounds convenient.

Also having people react differently to the adventurer and the secret identity is totally appropriate. A common joke in our group is 'Adventurer Pricing' where a simple shot of whisky costs a gold. There is no way a real person would pay a gold coin for a common drink! Have both merchants and normal people react more relaxed and less trying to take advantage of the secret identity than they would an adventurer.

Or you could have suspicious people following the PCs around. Who are these suspicious people? Some are fans. Some are trying to gather any information for information brokers. Some are minor theives trying to scope the party out for an unlikely robbery, some are agents of the crown trying to keep track of the party and figure them out, some work for the enemy, some work for minor nobles with an interest in the party, some are undercover guards seeing what adventurers are doing. Lots of people have a reason to keep tabs on high level adventurers, and most don't have magical means to do it. And very few groups would go around murdering all of the (harmless?) snoops.


Java Man wrote:
Untyped bonuses from different sources, that is a flagship example of what does stack. Enjoy.

One is a feat that doesn't expressly give a type. The other is a feat that doesn't expressly give a type. Isn't this the endless quagmire that people constantly argue over?


As with all magic items, a fair judge alters the value to match the usefulness of the item. In this case, low value spells were adjusted to be below the formula cost. If you found a spell that has higher utility than the formula would indicate the price should be adjusted higher as well.

The formula are guidelines, and making adjustments is part of a GMs job.


From the description I believe the answers are:
1) As long as you have access to a version of the spell you want to learn you don't need to pay for it to be cast. If someone else in the group can cast it, or you find the spell active, or you can find a spellbook with the spell in it, or a scroll.

If you can find a caster with a spellbook that would sell spell casting services you should also be able to pay the same amount a wizard would to copy the spell from the caster's book.

2) No, the ring learns the spell. There is no mention on the ring forgetting anything.

3) Again, no. Once the ring learns a spell, it retains the memory.

As a GM I'd have the ring come with 1 spell learned already. I'd also let the wearer use the ring to learn a new spell. The attempt erases the previous spell since the ring can only hold 1 spell at a time. But the ring doesn't say anything about changing the spell the ring has learned, so this really is beyond RAW but I believe well within RAI.


Dark Immortal wrote:


I think that what is appropriate for an event and what actually happens as the result of an event are two entirely different things. As I stated before (and as the feat references) the damage appropriate for a 10’ fall is 1d6. The damage appropriate for a 20’ fall is 2d6, and so on.

I don’t think we have anything to argue about on that (I hope). Now, if I fall I am normally going to take the damage appropriate for the fall but there are ways to offset this. Why do those ways reduce the damage I deal? The feat makes it clear that I deal damage appropriate to the fall, not the actual damage I received. If I have an effect that says to convert every d6 of falling damage I would receive into a fortitude save dc 10+the result of the d6 damage or take 1 con drain, that doesn’t change how much my opponent takes from the feat or the amount of damage that’s appropriate for my fall (which is always the same unless dealing with different levels of gravity or similar effects). I’m no longer taking falling damage but that doesn’t mean that the damage appropriate for the fall has changed. Another way is an object specific immune to falling damage still deals damage appropriate for its fall and size to targets underneath it. I’ve given other examples in earlier posts to show myriad ways to reduce or ignore falling damage and how it makes no sense that they all shut this feat down. Dr10/magic shouldn’t stop this feat from working 80% of the time or whatever it amounts to. And neither should an ability specifically designed to reduce or prevent damage from falling.

First thing to say: show me anywhere that Damage Reduction works on fall damage. As far as I know, Damage Reduction only applies to damage done by weapons, attacks and spells that do weapon type damage.

The second thing to say is appropriate isn't just a set rule of falling a certain distance means a certain amount of damage. Appropriate means you have to make a judgement call. If you look in the environmental rules you'll find there are modifying circumstances to fall damage. And by using a feather fall like ability you've taken yourself from a lump of meat that falls 500'/round to a feather like being that falls 60'/round and depending on environmental conditions you could end up being blown away, or even up. You're falling at slighly faster than 1/10 the normal rate. Shouldn't you do 1/10 the damage? This obviously shouldn't be an answer based on logic, but rather what feels right.

And adding an additional 6d6 to your Monk's charge that can cover 360' in a round with no repercussions to you doesn't feel right at all. Maybe your GM will disagree, but I think most experienced GMs would want Branch Pounce to work the way its described: you use your fall damage to hurt someone else more. If you take no fall damage, shouldn't your opponent take none too? Because if you fail to hit with Branch Pounce you take all of the damage. Which in this case is zero. So if you succeed your opponent should take the whole zero damage.

A GM's call is about being fair. And that sounds fair.


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Slim Jim wrote:
"I would like to have a cat, provided it barked."

Barking Cat as requested.


Dark Immortal wrote:
Ok, I read it again and see what you are talking about. So again, is gliding falling? As I said before I think it is but want to get my rules understanding down pat for this. If I fall 20 feet I can now glide 20x5 feet in any number of directions. That’s 100’+20’. Am I falling 120’ or just 20’?

Each round you fall up to 60'. For ever 1' you fall, you can move 5' horizontally. So if you fell 60' you could move 300'. As long as you are under glide you can't choose to fall more than 60'. The spell very specifically limits how far you can fall each round.

Glide also says you take no damage from falls (as if from Feather Fall). That means if you have additional questions, you refer to Feather Fall. If you think Feather Fall doesn't work with Branch Pounce, then Glide won't either.

And if this was my game, it wouldn't work because Branch Pounce says "you also deal the amount of falling damage appropriate to your fall to the target" and I don't find it appropriate for a gliding feather like person that can be blown around by wind like a leaf to do fall damage to things he lands on. Glide makes you susceptible to wind currents. You're literally a feather on the wind.

While Branch Pounce might not add damage to your Dragonflight Flight, that is one crazy long range charge. If you jump 60' up, that means you cover 60' horizontal as well. Then add another 300' from the glide effect.

Or you could jump 100', get stuck 40' in the air till the next round when your glide-effect disappears and do an uncontrolled fall at the beginning of your round. I don't think that is what you really want.


I want to go a bit deeper here. If it is 2 NPCs fighting without the players intervening then whatever you say goes. Don't bother fooling the players by rolling. Just slowly describe what happens to give the players an opportunity to jump in.

Or alternatively have it suddenly end to prevent them from jumping in. Sometimes you need a certain outcome. Make sure you explicitly tell the players that the story narrative needs this. Do not make a habit of doing this. Use this sort of forced story very sparingly. Players need to feel like they can change and shape the outcome of the story (game).

In most cases you should invite and welcome player participation in narrative events. After all, the game is for their enjoyment and its no fun when they can't influence the outcome.


A more extreme example.

A large sized ogre with a reach weapon threatens one of your party members. The ogre is 15' away from your party member but thanks to size and weapon he threatens. So technically they are both in melee.

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