Do we have any idea when Ultimate Wilderness (Shifter class) will be made PFS legal in the Additional Resources? Has there been a general timeline from previous books?
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It's been variable and I hope it will be *quite a while* as in *after they fix the significant and glaring issues with it*.
...and yes, that's coming from someone who has the .pdf and the hardcover and even picked up a hardcover line subscription.
Better for everything to be fixed first than have 'allowed things' and then have to revise that list when the corrections have taken place.
...and it also merits noting that under 'normal' circumstances I'd be excitedly waiting for it to hit AR and CC.
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Has there been any word from Paizo that they agree/think that there are significant and glaring issues with it?
Admittedly I was extremely excited for the class concept and bought the book eagerly. Then I read the class description and was a bit disappointed.
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If their silence is supposed to speak volumes as to the affirmation of the correctness of the material, there is significant disappointment from this corner, and many others.
EDIT: There currently are: a reasonably lengthy FAQ/Errata thread; a whole thread asking about how an Oozemorph actually *works* and a lengthy thread discussing the shortfalls of the Shifter class.
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Not to mention there are quite a few changes in how animal companion and familiar archetypes work in the material reprinted from earlier softcovers. While it may not require additional errata, PFS needs to decide how to handle rebuilds/changes for affected players.
(Speaking as someone whose Irori-sent white tiger will apparently no longer be able to be the Totem Guide he was for levels 1-10.)
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If their silence is supposed to speak volumes as to the affirmation of the correctness of the material, there is significant disappointment from this corner, and many others.
EDIT: There currently are: a reasonably lengthy FAQ/Errata thread; a whole thread asking about how an Oozemorph actually *works* and a lengthy thread discussing the shortfalls of the Shifter class.
Well considering last Tuesday they put up an FAQ answer for Ultimate Wilderness HERE I would think they are not being silent about there being issues with the class/book.
As for the oozemorph, probably best to leave that out of PFS for the foreseeable future.
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My biggest complaints about Ultimate Wilderness are:
1) Either Ultimate Wilderness used the new item slot language from the Campaign Clarifications, or the Campaign Clarifications used the language getting ready to put into Ultimate Wilderness. Either way, after all the queries and questions about how the Campaign Clarifications actually worked (with many of them still not answered), Ultimate Wilderness did not correct or clarify any of those questions. This is just really poor in my mind, that a hardcover book got printed with the same glaring issues as the campaign clarification document.
2) This would have been a perfect book to rewrite the mounted combat rules. They did not do that.
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Well considering last Tuesday they put up an FAQ answer for Ultimate Wilderness HERE I would think they are not being silent about there being issues with the class/book.As for the oozemorph, probably best to leave that out of PFS for the foreseeable future.
First Part: Mark came down on the product discussion thread before it even went live and said that particular FAQ question was 'in the pipe' before 'live day' because they discovered the copy that went to press missed that change.
Second Part: The Oozemorph actually hearkens back to a bunch of the structural issues of the Shifter, so if the one was corrected, it probably wouldn't be too hard to correct the Oozemorph.
Third Part: Likewise confused as to why they couldn't have used the opportunity to clean up mounted combat a bit.
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Venture-Agent, Georgia—Atlanta
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Not to mention there are quite a few changes in how animal companion and familiar archetypes work in the material reprinted from earlier softcovers. While it may not require additional errata, PFS needs to decide how to handle rebuilds/changes for affected players.
(Speaking as someone whose Irori-sent white tiger will apparently no longer be able to be the Totem Guide he was for levels 1-10.)
What's happened to Totem Guide? Looks the same to me or am I missing something?
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So the Gathlain is Fey in the PRD. The race pc sidebar doesn't mention they are fey. The reprint of the Gathlain in ultimate wilderness essentially is the same sidebar. The only mention of being Fey us in the description and background of the race. But the mechanical bits doesn't say this.
So if these become legal for PFS, we probably need an official declaration of creature type.
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im content waiting, i like my thundercaller how it is. dont care for the nerfThundercaller is the same (as far as I can tell), not sure what nerf you're talking about?The UW version makes clear that the thundercall ability is always a standard action.
The original version has it as a type of bardic performance and therefore arguably it benefits from the activation time reduction.
So the reprint's only "nerf" is that you can't spam more than one scaling damage/DC sound burst per round? Oh no. How will I ever survive this horrific loss. What a tragedy.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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u cant cast spells or melee while using it, plus while i did feel it needed nerfed, imo snowball should have stayed a conjuration spell that ignored sr
The problem with ignoring SR is that it made it work against monsters intended to not be directly damaged with spells, like golems.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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u cant cast spells or melee while using it, plus while i did feel it needed nerfed, imo snowball should have stayed a conjuration spell that ignored srThe problem with ignoring SR is that it made it work against monsters intended to not be directly damaged with spells, like golems.Like Acid Arrow? Or Acid Splash? Or Stone Discus?
No-SR damage spells definitely exist, and have since the beginning.
Acid Splash is locked to 1d3 damage, give or take a few minor bonuses. Acid Arrow takes a long time to deal damage. Stone Discus aims at normal AC and allows DR.
Meanwhile Snowball is easily escalated with Intensify Spell/Magical Lineage and touch-range destroys supposedly magic immune things. It's clearly much more powerful; it gets used a great deal while the other spells are niche.
Basically, it breaks the main rule for designing new spells, that it shouldn't be much better than the CRB spells.
It's also a case of Conjuration once again being better at evocation than Evocation.
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So the reprint's only "nerf" is that you can't spam more than one scaling damage/DC sound burst per round? Oh no. How will I ever survive this horrific loss. What a tragedy.im content waiting, i like my thundercaller how it is. dont care for the nerfThundercaller is the same (as far as I can tell), not sure what nerf you're talking about?The UW version makes clear that the thundercall ability is always a standard action.
The original version has it as a type of bardic performance and therefore arguably it benefits from the activation time reduction.
I wouldn't call this a nerf I would call it a clarification that the original author never intended it be used more than once a round. I saw a player at 12th level with this build shooting off 3 Sound Bursts a round under a blurry description of how it worked as a Bard song. He interrupted the rules as saying that it was instantaneous effect and hence stopped the Bard song instantaneously and thus he could use his standard, move, and immediate actions to create 3 different Sound Bursts a round. He had 48 rounds of bard song a day. It was the most broken thing I have ever seen. Taking the threat out of every encounter on his initiative. It took the fun out of the game for all other players at the table. The archetype was way overpowered and breaking encounters.
I rate this clarification as awesome, well overdue.
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People are reviewing these books well ahead of the street date. Typically the Venture-Officer review team gets the books in PDF form as soon as they are finished up (not sure if that's when it goes to the printer, or when they come back from the printer but a month or so prior to the street date.) But suffice it to say, the review team gets it 2 weeks to 2 months prior to the street date.
The reports the review team compiles to the Organized Play Team is pretty comprehensive and helpful, but the organized play team still has to go through the books themselves. This takes time. And on top of all their other duties, they don't have time to make sure every book is ready for inclusion into the campaign upon the street date.
However, what I find discouraging has nothing to do with the organized play team's timeliness on releasing the book. What I find discouraging is that the pathfinder development team has found significant issues with the book, and its essentially going back into development. Its discouraging that a hard cover book would be published in such a state.
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Well we still haven't had the DEVs announcement talk or whatever about the shifter that we're promised. So I'd guess within 3 weeks for that. Then it's if PFS has an inside scoop on that and legalizes it same day or if they then need to review it after the talk for legality in which case likely 2 weeks to approve and then maybe right then or wait till next mid-month release.
Venture-Captain, Minnesota
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I just want to play a leshy!!!
You can play a leshy now! It just has to have a leshy warden druid friend that you also cart around. Just ask Oak Sprout about that. I loved that character.
Seriously, I have seen other people who have played the familiar as the main PC. Why not you?
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I just want to play a leshy!!!You can play a leshy now! It just has to have a leshy warden druid friend that you also cart around. Just ask Oak Sprout about that. I loved that character.
Seriously, I have seen other people who have played the familiar as the main PC. Why not you?
I've done this (also with Animal Companions).
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It would be helpful if, while we're waiting, leadership could signal if the reprinted options in this book will likely supersede their older versions (e.g. Lore Warden from Adventurer's Guide) or whether it will be pick the source you use (e.g. Skinwalker stats). As it is, I'm hesitant to use options reprinted until I know which version will be used.
Alternatively, if the Shifter is the thing holding everything up (which I'm not sure is the case, but that's what everyone speculates), then maybe moving forward with the rest of the book and doing shifter at a later date might be a better move? There's a lot of content in this book that isn't Shifter related at all. I'd really love a Suture Vine or Ravenous Tumbleweed familiar!
I don't mind the delay, necessarily, but having some sense of intent so we can plan around it would be helpful.
My guess is anything that might be considered a nerf in the new print will be the only legal version and that there's likely not any that won't use the updated version. Basing off of how they did the last instances of this situation.
