Ultimate Wilderness - ETA to Legal for PFS Play


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5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
MrBear wrote:
Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:
MrBear wrote:
I just want to play a leshy!!!

You can play a leshy now! It just has to have a leshy warden druid friend that you also cart around. Just ask Oak Sprout about that. I loved that character.

Seriously, I have seen other people who have played the familiar as the main PC. Why not you?

My much beloved Leshy Warden is a grippli, and I very much love my froggy friend. I love his sidekick Twiggy, too.

But I'd really love to play a Leshykineticist. That seems like it would be amazing fun.

PFS sanctioned food fight!

Sczarni 3/5

Eta for the book for pfs

1/5

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I want a leshy paladin of saerenrae. saladin ;p

5/5

kingtutiba wrote:
Eta for the book for pfs

Magic eight ball says "answer unclear, ask again in a week"

Scarab Sages 5/5

They just issued an FAQ this week clarifying how the wild shape works for the Shifter (i.e. making it actually useful.)

1/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

They also said they're still looking at it, because their 'hotfix' raised as many questions as it resolved.

However, there *is* forward progress, and Shifter Claws count as magical at L3 (along with Silver and Cold Iron) as well.

Shifter FAQ

3/5 Venture-Agent, Illinois—Peoria

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm more excited for some of the other books that have hit recently, but I really hope the Flinging Charge feat ends up legal, and once UW is legal I will definitely be looking at it deeper.

5/5 ⦵⦵

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm just patiently waiting for my LARGE bear companion...

Liberty's Edge Venture-Agent, Online

Personally I just want access to some of the animal tricks. Why not just leave Shifter off the PFS legal list for now while sanctioning some of the other stuff and then revisit it once it's "fixed."

1/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

...there's more motivation to get the whole thing on track as one unit versus pieces of it when there's new product coming down the pipe that will also acquire incorporation into the campaign?

Dark Archive 3/5 Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Morgantown

So this is a train wreck... con season is starting, it's three months after release and still nothing on this?


3 people marked this as a favorite.

In their defense, they have to cook the raw steak that is the shifter before they can serve it. It's still kinda rare, and nobody wants to serve a steak dinner with no steak.

Grand Lodge

The AR update has been submitted...just waiting on them to publish it according to John Compton.

Sczarni 3/5

Still waiting makes me wounder why i buy,a book right when it comes out at full price when i just could have waited for a used one to pop up on Amazon for 20 dollars really saddens me.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

I dunno, to use it in your home games?

Scarab Sages 5/5

I'm also assuming they are waiting to update anything like this until they've worked out most of the new website bugs.

Sczarni 3/5

Some of us do not have the luxury of haveing the time to join a home game.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Then I guess don't buy something you can't use?

1/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

My personal experience with new products added to PFS -- and it has mostly improved over the past couple of years -- is that when things are properly vetted for the OrgPlay team, then they are 'released into the wild'.

Said it before in this thread, bears repeating -- I would very much like to see Ultimate Wilderness 'in play'.

That being said, I'd **MUCH** rather see it done right the first time, than six years from now a future PDT member going "Okay, we're going to completely rebuild the Shifter to something worse."

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Agent, Rhode Island—Lincoln aka Upaynao

Never seen that happen. Ever.

Scarab Sages 3/5

I know, right? not for a few weeks at least

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Jacksonville aka Kyrie Ebonblade,

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Truthfully I think the Shifter needs WORK. Just authorize the rest of the book and wait till the devs fix it.

Most of the folks I know want other things from the book, like poison harvesting, feats, and boons with the magic plants (they are too awesome for regular use but they scream ‘chronicle boon’)

Scarab Sages 5/5

The FAQ has done a bunch of fixing. Is there anything else that needs fixing? Nobody seems able to answer that.

1/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There are questions about what Wild Shape is, and how it interacts with Druid Wild Shape, for example... or with Hunter Aspects... etc, etc

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Jacksonville aka Kyrie Ebonblade,

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


There are questions about what Wild Shape is, and how it interacts with Druid Wild Shape, for example... or with Hunter Aspects... etc, etc

Yeah, lots of ‘is this equivalent to that’ still needs to be hashed out. Truthfully the rest of the book most likely could have been put up a bit earlier while the class was hashed out.

1/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The problem with a piecemeal approach is that if there is only 'one thing' left and then another product releases (say, 'Ascendant Adventures') in a couple of months, then the OPT has to look at the subsequent newer release or have the possibility of becoming backlogged (or even further backlogged).

In the meantime, those folks who did purchase the book on good faith and are waiting patiently have to wait until... six months? A year? Maybe never? until the class in the book has been approved for play and it will have been kicked down in priority because it is 'one item' versus 'a whole book'.

I can understand frustration on all sides of this -- in a different campaign having to go through the rules interactions to approve new material could take *years* and that was moving *fast*.

And then there would be grumbles that it didn't address the concerns that had brought up the request for new material approval in the first place, and we'd be playing 'catch-up' on things we thought were done.

This is the cause for concern.

Measure Twice, Cut Once versus Measure Once, then cut a whole bunch of times to get it 'right'

Scarab Sages 5/5

Thomas Graham wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


There are questions about what Wild Shape is, and how it interacts with Druid Wild Shape, for example... or with Hunter Aspects... etc, etc
Yeah, lots of ‘is this equivalent to that’ still needs to be hashed out. Truthfully the rest of the book most likely could have been put up a bit earlier while the class was hashed out.

There is an FAQ clarifying wild shape.

1/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

We didn't have this problem with other classes because their playtests were available. Yet another reason it should have been playtested.

1/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Tallow:

There's nothing in the FAQ about what the interactions between druidic Wild Shape and Shifter Wild Shape are. And if the current Shifter Wild Shape is maintained, there are folks who are going to 'double-dip' to get the unleashed vesion AND the claws of Shifter.

We REALLY don't need to see another Lore Warden in the Making.

Scarab Sages 5/5

currently the rules of polymorph take precedence until indicated otherwise. Which means they don't interact with one another currently. The only way to get shifter's claws and wild shape at the same time, is when the Shifter lets you do so.

1/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Expect table variation?

Scarab Sages 5/5

Shouldn't. The polymorph rules are quite clear. And the Shifter's wildshape doesn't say it stacks with the Druid wildshape. So I don't see how anything could be used together to get more power than you normally would have with either of the abilities.

Sovereign Court 1/5

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Tallow wrote:
Shouldn't. The polymorph rules are quite clear. And the Shifter's wildshape doesn't say it stacks with the Druid wildshape. So I don't see how anything could be used together to get more power than you normally would have with either of the abilities.

I've seen a few concerns around how some stuff interacts that have nothing to do with attempting to stack the two Wild Shapes together.

If you're a Druid 1/Shifter 4 and you take Shaping Focus, what happens?
If you're a Druid 1/Shifter 4 with Beast of the Society, what happens?
If you're a Druid 4/Shifter 3 how do Shifter's Claws interact with the Druid Wild Shape?
etc

Scarab Sages 5/5

ZᴇɴN wrote:
Tallow wrote:
Shouldn't. The polymorph rules are quite clear. And the Shifter's wildshape doesn't say it stacks with the Druid wildshape. So I don't see how anything could be used together to get more power than you normally would have with either of the abilities.

I've seen a few concerns around how some stuff interacts that have nothing to do with attempting to stack the two Wild Shapes together.

If you're a Druid 1/Shifter 4 and you take Shaping Focus, what happens?
If you're a Druid 1/Shifter 4 with Beast of the Society, what happens?
If you're a Druid 4/Shifter 3 how do Shifter's Claws interact with the Druid Wild Shape?
etc

These are questions that don't have a perfectly intuitive answer. However, I don't think they need the interaction to be spelled out in an FAQ or with the Shifter class.

1) Since neither wild shape work together, and the Shifter's Claws don't work with the Druid Wild Shape (see answer 3 below), then the only thing that happens is you act as a Druid 5 for Druid wild shape and Shifter 4 for Shifter Wilde Shape.

2) You pick which class you want to add wild shape time to. Although this shouldn't preclude making the Shifter legal, since its just a trait. This can be easily handled in the Campaign Clarifications, and may already have been for the next update.

3) Shifter's Claws don't interact with the Druid's wild shape. Because 2 polymorph effects can't take place at the same time, unless they specifically note otherwise. Such as how the Shifter's Claws work with the Shifter's Major Form. Its important to note exactly how that's written in the Shifter class, and how the Wild Shape doesn't say it stacks with Druid Wild Shape.

Sovereign Court 1/5

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Tallow wrote:
1) Since neither wild shape work together, and the Shifter's Claws don't work with the Druid Wild Shape (see answer 3 below), then the only thing that happens is you act as a Druid 5 for Druid wild shape and Shifter 4 for Shifter Wilde Shape.

Except that the Shifter Wild Shape ability says, "Shifters can take feats and other abilities that require wild shape; for the purpose of qualifying for prerequisites, her effective druid level is equal to her shifter level."

Shaping Focus is a feat that requires Wild Shape. Therefore the Shifter is able to use his Shifter level as an effective Druid level. So what exactly is your explanation for why the effects of Shaping Focus wouldn't apply to the Shifter's Wild Shape? If anything, I'd think someone like a Druid 4/Shifter 4 would even have both versions of Wild Shape function at effective level 8, since nothing in the feat says it would only apply to one version of your Wild Shape.

Tallow wrote:
2) You pick which class you want to add wild shape time to. Although this shouldn't preclude making the Shifter legal, since its just a trait. This can be easily handled in the Campaign Clarifications, and may already have been for the next update.

Why? Nothing in the trait says you can only apply to one version of Wild Shape.

Tallow wrote:
3) Shifter's Claws don't interact with the Druid's wild shape. Because 2 polymorph effects can't take place at the same time, unless they specifically note otherwise. Such as how the Shifter's Claws work with the Shifter's Major Form. Its important to note exactly how that's written in the Shifter class, and how the Wild Shape doesn't say it stacks with Druid Wild Shape.

This doesn't really have anything to do with multiple polymorph effects. Most people are confused about whether or not the benefits of Shifter's Claws (counting as magic, etc) would apply to their natural attacks if they use Druid Wild Shape instead of Shifter Wild Shape.

For this one, however, I think the answer is clear because the Shifter's Claws ability says they apply the benefits when, "a shifter uses wild shape to assume her aspect‘s major form".

Scarab Sages 5/5

ZᴇɴN wrote:
Tallow wrote:
1) Since neither wild shape work together, and the Shifter's Claws don't work with the Druid Wild Shape (see answer 3 below), then the only thing that happens is you act as a Druid 5 for Druid wild shape and Shifter 4 for Shifter Wilde Shape.

Except that the Shifter Wild Shape ability says, "Shifters can take feats and other abilities that require wild shape; for the purpose of qualifying for prerequisites, her effective druid level is equal to her shifter level."

Shaping Focus is a feat that requires Wild Shape. Therefore the Shifter is able to use his Shifter level as an effective Druid level. So what exactly is your explanation for why the effects of Shaping Focus wouldn't apply to the Shifter's Wild Shape? If anything, I'd think someone like a Druid 4/Shifter 4 would even have both versions of Wild Shape function at effective level 8, since nothing in the feat says it would only apply to one version of your Wild Shape.

Using it as a prerequisite does not mean it stacks as Druid wildshape. Every other iteration of wild shape specifically indicates how it stacks with Druid's wildshape.

ZᴇɴN wrote:
Tallow wrote:
2) You pick which class you want to add wild shape time to. Although this shouldn't preclude making the Shifter legal, since its just a trait. This can be easily handled in the Campaign Clarifications, and may already have been for the next update.
Why? Nothing in the trait says you can only apply to one version of Wild Shape.

But no other trait that adds to things like this, adds it to both classes that grant you something. So if you had a trait that added to channel class feature, it would not add to both your Life Oracle and your Cleric channel. You'd have to pick which class the trait applies to. Note, I never said it wouldn't work with the Shifter's wild shape. Just that you wouldn't get to add it to both.

ZᴇɴN wrote:
Tallow wrote:
3) Shifter's Claws don't interact with the Druid's wild shape. Because 2 polymorph effects can't take place at the same time, unless they specifically note otherwise. Such as how the Shifter's Claws work with the Shifter's Major Form. Its important to note exactly how that's written in the Shifter class, and how the Wild Shape doesn't say it stacks with Druid Wild Shape.

This doesn't really have anything to do with multiple polymorph effects. Most people are confused about whether or not the benefits of Shifter's Claws (counting as magic, etc) would apply to their natural attacks if they use Druid Wild Shape instead of Shifter Wild Shape.

For this one, however, I think the answer is clear...

Not sure how they are confusing. Shifter's Claws says it works for the Major Form. Not for Wild Shape in general. It would not work for the natural weapons of a Druid's wild shape.

Sovereign Court 1/5

Tallow wrote:
Not sure how they are confusing. Shifter's Claws says it works for the Major Form. Not for Wild Shape in general. It would not work for the natural weapons of a Druid's wild shape.

Yeah, that's what I was just saying about that one.

3/5 Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro aka MadScientistWorking

1. To answer your question it's always been the case that unless abilities are explicitly stated to stack they don't.

Scarab Sages 5/5

ZᴇɴN wrote:
Tallow wrote:
Not sure how they are confusing. Shifter's Claws says it works for the Major Form. Not for Wild Shape in general. It would not work for the natural weapons of a Druid's wild shape.
Yeah, that's what I was just saying about that one.

Cool. Looks like we are on the same page with that one then.

Scarab Sages 5/5

MadScientistWorking wrote:
1. To answer your question it's always been the case that unless abilities are explicitly stated to stack they don't.

This jives with my take on it as well.

Sovereign Court 1/5

I don't think anybody's asking about the two kinds of Wild Shape stacking. More just questions like the ones I mentioned above.

Scarab Sages 5/5

ZᴇɴN wrote:
I don't think anybody's asking about the two kinds of Wild Shape stacking. More just questions like the ones I mentioned above.

If the wild shapes are separate abilities, and don't stack, then why are people confused about how other shifter abilities, that explain explicitly how they interact with the shifter wild shape, work with druid wild shape?

Just because shifter wild shape allows you to use it as a prerequisite wherever wild shape is listed, does not mean that Druid Wild Shape interacts or interfaces with any of the shifter abilities.

It does not.

Sovereign Court 1/5

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Tallow wrote:
ZᴇɴN wrote:
I don't think anybody's asking about the two kinds of Wild Shape stacking. More just questions like the ones I mentioned above.

If the wild shapes are separate abilities, and don't stack, then why are people confused about how other shifter abilities, that explain explicitly how they interact with the shifter wild shape, work with druid wild shape?

Just because shifter wild shape allows you to use it as a prerequisite wherever wild shape is listed, does not mean that Druid Wild Shape interacts or interfaces with any of the shifter abilities.

It does not.

People aren't confused about how Shifter abilities interact with Druid Wild Shape so much as they're confused about how old, pre-Shifter material works with Shifter Wild Shape.

The ones I stated above are just a few examples of the things I've seen people asking about, because the wording in Shifter Wild Shape isn't as clear as it could be in that regard.

Scarab Sages 5/5

ZᴇɴN wrote:
Tallow wrote:
ZᴇɴN wrote:
I don't think anybody's asking about the two kinds of Wild Shape stacking. More just questions like the ones I mentioned above.

If the wild shapes are separate abilities, and don't stack, then why are people confused about how other shifter abilities, that explain explicitly how they interact with the shifter wild shape, work with druid wild shape?

Just because shifter wild shape allows you to use it as a prerequisite wherever wild shape is listed, does not mean that Druid Wild Shape interacts or interfaces with any of the shifter abilities.

It does not.

People aren't confused about how Shifter abilities interact with Druid Wild Shape so much as they're confused about how old, pre-Shifter material works with Shifter Wild Shape.

The ones I stated above are just a few examples of the things I've seen people asking about, because the wording in Shifter Wild Shape isn't as clear as it could be in that regard.

Shifter Wildshape works almost identically to Druid Wildshape, mechanically. The main difference is the abilities you actually get by using it. Therefore, unless another ability, feat, trait, or whatever, that interacts with Druid Wildshape, interacts on the specific abilities granted, it should interact exactly the same. If it interacts on abilities granted, then it wouldn't interact at all, unless something specifically says otherwise.

Like Planar Wildshape likely would not work at all, but Natural Casting would.

I think these instances are few enough that that making the Shifter legal should be ok. And the answers to these questions are typically intuitive enough, that there shouldn't be much table variation in how they work.

And barring that, as long as players go under the assumption that druid wildshapey things don't work with shifter wildshapey things, then there shouldn't be any issues.

Sovereign Court 1/5

Oh, I agree that it shouldn't stop them from making Shifter legal. I'm probably more impatient to have that AR update go live than most other people. I just also agree with others that there are still some kinks to be worked out.

Scarab Sages 5/5

ZᴇɴN wrote:
Oh, I agree that it shouldn't stop them from making Shifter legal. I'm probably more impatient to have that AR update go live than most other people. I just also agree with others that there are still some kinks to be worked out.

Agreed. But I don't think its more kinks, currently, post-FAQ, than what the Magus needed when it first came out.

Sczarni 3/5

So all this stuff and still no shifter and i am supposed to trust you to start a new edition right please just up date so i can enjoy my last year of role playing playing a xlass i have bwen waiting for a long time


Does it normally take this long for paizo to add stuff to the website? John said it was "submitted and queued for addition to the website." 2 week ago already. It's been 3 months since the last update, it's getting kind of silly.

1/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

RandomReverie wrote:
Does it normally take this long for paizo to add stuff to the website? John said it was "submitted and queued for addition to the website." 2 week ago already. It's been 3 months since the last update, it's getting kind of silly.

I used to work as a web developer that had to update websites as part of my responsibilities. If the AR page is not part of the site's CMS, then a web developer has to update the page as opposed to a non-tech employee updating it themselves. In such a case, an employee has to submit a request to the development team with the copy (which is probably what John was referring to). How long a development team takes to do this can vary based on workload. Implementing the site change and fixing all the bugs is likely taking priority (as it should).

1/5

RandomReverie wrote:
Does it normally take this long for paizo to add stuff to the website? John said it was "submitted and queued for addition to the website." 2 week ago already. It's been 3 months since the last update, it's getting kind of silly.

For the last several updates? Yes. Although usually Paizo says "convention season is here, updates are slow" or "we're all out for the holidays".

Updates used to be significantly more timely.

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