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** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin 1,169 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 23 Organized Play characters.


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It's probably worth noting that if Vapor Form conveys immediate ability escape, it's actually better than Unfettered Movement for most tactical purposes and therefore more versatile in a single spell slot.

A player under Vapor Form could 'automatically escape', Stride or Fly away with Resistances, and then dismiss the spell.

As it is, Unfettered Movement still requires the player to spend the action to escape, it just becomes an automatic success but does incur the MAP penalty and that doesn't put them any further from their opponent.

If you do decide to let Vapor Form grant a bonus to escaping, I wouldn't let it be automatic and probably mimic the Unfettered Movement function. I'd probably only allow Escaping (bypassing the limitation on Attack Trait actions) and doing so with a circumstance bonus as best - maybe +1 or +2.

Both are 4th level spells with similar durations (minutes) and a range of touch. In a situation where a player may get Grabbed over and over, the Unfettered Movement is superior, but for a quick escape Vapor Form would be much better to prepare.

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There are several feats that make it quite clear that 'Command an Animal' on a minion is intended to happen exactly once per round. This is in addition to the general text of the Minion tag.

Companion's Cry is featured on a number of classes and archetypes and provides a way to extend that single Command action to grant additional actions at a worse rate of return (1 for 1 instead of 1 for 2). Inventor also has this feature baked into the Construct innovation.

Other feats also note the one time use of Command an Animal like the Druid's Instinctive Support which provides a unique benefit to commanding quickly, but still limiting to 2 actions.

Your proposed example is simply too good to be true. The power of Cavalier's Charge is that you're getting to combine 3 actions in a unique order (the Strike occurs) in the middle of the two Strides by the mount. As noted in this thread, minions can only have 2 actions a round, taken when Commanded unless you have an ability that explicitly lets them receive more.

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I think, generally, the rules don't support a familiar going off an reconnoitering a hex on their own. Animal Companions and Familiar's don't really get separate exploration activities from their masters. That said, I agree it feels like something a player should be able to invest in. I'd consider creating a familiar ability similar to the other assistive ones like Ambassador, Second Opinion, and Partner in Crime.

Spotting Partner:
Your familiar is particularly good at helping you scout unfamiliar terrain. When you use the Reconnoiter activity in hexploration, your familiar assists your efforts and provides a +1 circumstance bonus to your checks to find hidden special features, or +2 if you're a master in the associated skill. Your familiar must have Share Senses and a movement speed appropriate for the terrain (Swim, Flight, Climbing, etc), as determined by the GM.

Doing this would allow a player to derive a benefit from their familiar, and it's made with a significant choice because if an encounter happens during the Reconnoiter, the familiar won't have other powers to lend to the player that day. Further, this keeps the familiar and caster working in tandem and doesn't split them mechanically. From a narrative perspective, they'll range apart briefly, but for any shift to encounter mode during the day you can keep them together.

As for spells: I'd probably let the use of a non-trivial spell or resource expenditure to abstractly grant a circumstance bonus to a Reconnoiter or Map the Area check or count as an automatic success in some cases. It's not strictly necessary to say the spell is doing all the work and most spells are written with encounter mode or exploration mode (not hexploration) in mind. It could be that as your player is Reconnoitering, they see something in the distance and use the spell to help get a better look before proceeding farther.

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SuperBidi wrote:

One of the thing PF2 managed to get rid (mostly) was the obvious association between a build and a ra... an Ancestry. The only one I see is the assocation between Bouncy Goblin and Swashbuckler.

Now we have an obvious association between Minotaur and:
- 2-hander Fighter. One of the most efficient and common Fighter build. 10ft Reach + large size will guarantee tons of AoOs, there's no reason to play another Ancestry.
- Barbarian. Giant Stature without paying for the feat nor taking the Clumsy condition. Also, excellent stat spread. Most Barbarians will be Minotaurs from now on.
- Paladin. The stat spread is not as optimal as the 2 previous build, but Ranged Reprisal with a 10ft Reach Greatsword and Large size to attract attention on a tank is just golden.
- Guardian. So obvious I think most Guardians will be Minotaurs.
- Armor Inventor. The stat spread compensates the low hit points pool of the Inventor and extra reach is just bonus.
- Monk. Extra attention and excellent stat spread, it will be a classic.

Overall, there are 10% of the builds in this game that will be associated to Minotaur as other Ancestries will be far behind. That's a significant hit on build diversity.

I think you are absolutely overestimating the impact of this ancestry on character choice. The fact that the option exists does not in any way shape or form alter the fact that every other ancestry is still capable of being an objectively effective 2h fighters, barbarians, paladins, guardians, armor inventors, and monks. Even just clocking those as 10% of builds is an overstatement.

Outside of whiteboard theory-crafting and online guides, most players are going to pick ancestries based on the vision they have for their character and not a hypothetical optimized build. And the system supports that. The Elf fighter is no less effective than they were before. The Dwarf Giant Barbarian is still plenty. The Fleshwarp Monk can still have a good time. The Halfling Paladin is still going to exist.

How do I know this? I've GMed over 90 PFS sessions, played in probably as many or more, and participated in three adventure paths as a GM and player. This does not make me the most diehard player, but I'm consistent with a wide spread of players and builds. In that entire time since 2e launched, I never once saw Fighter with a gnome flick-mace in the wild. It didn't impact build diversity in practice outside of isolated situations. Even if Minotaur is a strong option for certain (arguably thematic builds), it's not so strong that it's going to discourage players from playing what they want and being effective at their chosen roles (class).

Dexter Coffee wrote:
Who wants True Specialist Mages?

TLDR: Not really it's of no interest. Just add some archetypes or feats that specialize your character.

I know they always talk about the way the Wizard or Arcane list are makes it hard to make Specialists like the Necromancer or Conjurer etc. How it needs a change to not make these concepts work or not feel bad for being limited when Arcane can do it just as well giving up less. I don't disagree but I also don't really care at all that is the case honestly.

I would rather they make some feats to make you a better Specialist that cross classes. You can be a Cleric or Wizard Necromancer whatever you like. We'll get an update to the Runelord eventually with its AD&D 2e like Specialist restrictions hopefully should be better than what we have.

The devs saying they can't make X specialist because of the Arcane list just feels like maybe they personally want to make a Specialist class. Seems more of a more dev frustration (mild annoyance?) than something I would care about. I get why they want to push for a change like this for the Arcane list because everyone wants development to be easier and more fun. Makes sense but I don't know how much it's even wanted from a consumer level. Surveys to poll the community about it at some point maybe?

I am not fussed about the fact that it can't be done or done well personally because that isn't the avenue I would want it done. I don't know the community at larges feelings on this line of thinking so maybe someone could inform me if there have been labyrinthian threads on this exact topic in the past and if this is just another rehash.

^^^ This.

We have archetypes. Specialist themes are perfect archetypes to go onto many different classes and it's what I was hoping to see more of in Secrets of Magic. They can even be class archetypes that mess with your overall spell slots/spell lists like Wellspring Mage or Elementalist.

I don't think this needs to be a whole class. As described above it feels like an extension of a sorcerer where the bloodline is the focus and it'd probably end up looking more like a psychic.

2/5 *** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

Brabot Underbreaker wrote:

When will the Kineticist class be available for use in organized play in 2e? Will it require a boon?

Content from a book is never sanctioned before street date (August 3rd, in the case of Rage of the Elements). Organized Play has generally tried to make sanctioning happen as close as possible to street date as possible, and I imagine they are keenly aware that people will want to use this class at GenCon and, more generally, ASAP.

While I can't say with 100% certainty, I do not think we have any reason to believe it would.

2/5 *** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

To be more complete, the Guide to Organized play contains a reference to what you can do with Downtime without a boon.


Retraining: Using Downtime to retrain character options(Core Rulebook 481) works as written, with a few clarifications.

Some items are changeable for free, such as name, gender, appearance, or other cosmetic designators.
Pathfinder training may be changed and takes 14 days.
Changing a selectable class feature takes 28 days.

If characters earn enough XP to level while still in the process of retraining, they can choose options legal for their new build, though the ability is unusable until the retraining is complete. An option being retrained is lost at the time the new option becomes usable.

2/5 *** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

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Player Owned Ships [Vanity Only]

I'd love to see the return of the ships/property vanity boons from 1e. It was always fun being able to own a ship and then when a scenario calls for it be able to say "we'll take my boat!" This should be entirely cosmetic only -- it's a quantum boat that takes the shape of any other mechanical boat needed in a scenario and doesn't change how the scenario works and can include language that says "the GM has final say if the players can use the PCs boat" if it doesn't work for plot purposes. There is no mechanical benefit to this, but a savvy player could get a hireling with Sailing Lore to be the first mate (or you could bundle a hireling into the boon and up the cost).

2/5 *** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

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I'd love to see the Soulforger be offered in a limited fashion. Effectively the boon would act as the GM and create a cause / limit the expansiveness of this option (assuming that's the primary reason it is currently limited).

An example implementation might be a Soul Path for each PFS Faction where they champion the ideals of their group, gaining access to appropriate edicts and anathemas and a specific set of essence powers and their associated corruptions. This would not require new rules content and just have the Org Play team act as the GM for this archetype.

2/5 *** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

I don't think it's even fair to call that a strict reading. It says follow the crafting rules with the following exceptions. Neither of those exceptions skips crafting feats.

Even if you have those feats you're likely still getting a benefit by being able to focus on a skill that you've invested in with skill boosts. A wizard with Master Arcana can use that instead of a Trained Crafting skill. The two days less downtime is kind of whatever but it's also a bonus.

OliveToad wrote:

Players are in battle and one of the pc’s is paralyzed. (Crit failed against the spell Paralyze).

The pc in question is a Liberator Champion.

Now being paralyzed states: “…and can't act except to Recall Knowledge and use actions that require only the use of your mind (as determined by the GM).”

Would they be able to use their Liberating Step or not?

Liberating Step has no traits which "force" it to require anything more than a mental action but it also isn't explicitly a mental action, so it's entirely up to the GM per the rule you quoted.

2/5 *** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

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As a GM, I always ask the summoner to clearly articulate their Act Together (e.g "I Act Together to have my Summoner Stride and my Eidolon use a two-action activity") It's really important for the players and the GM to be explicit about the action use. I try to do this myself when I play my Summoner as well.

Another area though that often comes up outside of combat is during exploration or other activities. Unlike Companions or Familiars, Eidolons do get to participate granting a second Exploration Activity except when there's a victory point system based on a total number of PCs. This can be a very important thing because it can mean the Summoner might be able to make two checks.

As a GM just make sure you know when those 'per/player victory point' systems are in effect and communicate to the Summoner that either they or the Eidolon needs to make the check and otherwise make sure the Summoner knows both can act. Likewise, as a player, when opportunities to roll come up be sure to ask the GM if you both can roll or not. You should advocate to use your class ability here but also understand when you can't.

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calnivo wrote:

Hello everyone,

I'm relatively new to PF2e and currently read descriptions of polymorph spells. Comparing them I've stumbled about a small but maybe important difference:

(Italics added).

Now I am confused.
Does the latter really mean that you have to make a binding decision at the first casting time of the spell, and afterwards you can only assume the exact same form at subsequent castings?

If Yes:
- How permanent is that choice? Until the characters death? Until retraining? (And then retraining what, exactly? - A choice within a spell? Are there precedents for something like this? Would it be like retraining repertoire spells?)
- It would definitely reduce the usability of these (by default usually just 1 min long) spells. Intuitively this interpretation feels wrong to me. (But who am I to criticise.)

On the other hand and if No:
- What is the word "first" supposed to mean there?

Thanks in advance for any help and additional thanks for all the community support in general. It helps me a lot to get into this game, which (honestly) appeared pretty scary at first. (Keyword: 600+ pages CRB :-))

The choice in both cases is made upon casting the spell, not when learned. The simplest answer here is that the word 'first' is extraneous and probably missed in an editing pass. It doesn't add anything here and it can be read the way you did or just read as "right after you cast this spell."

A piece of advice that I can offer you is that while there are hundreds of rules, they are attempting to write them in ways that allow for common sense interpretation and not legalistic parsing. A challenge, sure, but not impossible. The General Rules are a useful lens to keep in mind while reading. Of note, the section on ambiguous rules gives GMs clear override authority when something would be problematic / not make sense.

2/5 *** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

Cyrad wrote:
Interplanar adventures? Geniekin and aasimar/tiefling nephilim always available plz?

If past patterns hold, and I'm simply speculating here, any discounts or removals of costs for specific ancestry access would probably happen *after* the season and not before. The Remaster might change that sooner/faster, but, again, pure speculation.

2/5 *** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

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PeteZero wrote:
How do you get access to the Phoenix bloodline for PFS2e? I am aware one is via the Ruby phoenix Adventure Path, but is there any other option?

At present it is only available from the Adventure Path.

Ambiguous Rules wrote:
Sometimes a rule could be interpreted multiple ways. If one version is too good to be true, it probably is. If a rule seems to have wording with problematic repercussions or doesn’t work as intended, work with your group to find a good solution, rather than just playing with the rule as printed.

It is fairly clear in context that the initial starter item is not meant to be more than what you could normally get at level 1. An exquisite sword cane is a level 4 item with significant value at level 1. The very next sentence in implements supports the idea that your starting implement is worthless and you can upgrade it: "If you acquire a new object of the same general implement type, you can switch your implement to the new object by spending 1 day of downtime with the new item"

The simplest way to adjudicate this is to look to the Inventor Weapon innovation which is probably the closest analogue to the Thaumaturge weapon implement:

"It begins with the same statistics as a level 0 common simple or martial weapon of your choice, or another level 0 simple or martial weapon to which you have access. You can instead use the statistics of a 1st-level common simple or martial weapon of your choice, or another 1st-level simple or martial weapon to which you have access, but you must pay the monetary Price for the weapon."

Your GM could certainly let you get an exquisite sword cane at level 1. I wouldn't. And I doubt many others would either.

2/5 *** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:

Okay, so your loremaster knows things. Tell me who they are. Where are they from? What do they do in combat to help their teammates after they have identified the monsters? Why did they get drawn into a life of crime in the Tian Xia underworld?

Also, don't underestimate the time and energy required to run an Adventure Path! Ruby Phoenix will take longer than you might think, though it's a fun high level adventure, and I agree that you would find players for it.

I'll echo these questions. Even if you do all of this, you've invested virtually all your class feats and several skill feats into being able to roll on knowledge checks you probably could have made anyway. If you want to maximize those Lores you're probably intelligence based which means you're probably not lacking skill points and 3 out of 5 recall knowledge skills are Int based. We don't know anything else about the character -- not even a base class.

This reminds me of a build I saw early in 2e where someone made a master of all languages combining lots of different feats. I don't know precisely how many they had but I do remember that even with knowing 20+ languages we still ran into a scenario where all their linguistic mastery didn't do anything. And that all came at the cost of other versatility.

So let's just focus on the more pressing question: you make your recall knowledge check successfully. What next? What do you do?

Cheshire Grins wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean drop Haunting Hymn for Animated Assault since Haunting Hymn is a cantrip. I liked HH as an multi-target cantrip but daze probably is better just for the stun even if it's only on an unlikely crit fail.

Sorry, Haunting Hymn provides you an AoE damage spell early on which is mostly useful for targeting weakness when it comes up or maybe fighting a bunch of clustered lower level enemies -- but these situations aren't so common generally that Hymn ever really works out being a better option than just Telekinetic Projectile something, or doing a Bon-Mot Daze. So I was suggesting keeping the cantrip until you can get a different AoE (Animated Assault being the first on your short list, though Concordant Choir is also a very flexible option) and rely on that for those situations. This would free up your cantrip for Daze or ... anything else? I just think in practice you're going to have a mostly dead cantrip slot in Haunting Hymn.

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Your list looks really close to what I'd recommend.

I'd drop Haunting Hymn in favor of Animated Assault once you can get it. It's more reliable AoE damage and the sustain aspect also creates area denial. I've kept it running just to dissuade enemies / force weird movement from them. Daze is more reliably useful with it's range and combos with your Bon Mot and your allies Intimidate.

If you're going to do Animate Dead you need to make it Signature and expect it to come from your top slots to remain relevant. There are some pretty good undead options these days for utility, but you'll still need higher slots. I'd probably avoid this or lean into it heavier.

I probably wouldn't start running Dispel Magic until level 3+. It may come up beforehand but you really want it in your top or second highest level spell slots anyway and magic effects you need to counteract aren't all that common in the 4-5 range.

Rouse Skeletons and Animated Assault are competing in functions (minor AoE with passive area denial/control targeting Reflex). Probably pick one or the other.

It's not always the best plan, but I like to make sure I have a Reflex, Fort, and Will save targeting options in my top level or signature slots. Slow is obviously your best Fortitude option, Animated Assault/Rouse Skeletons is your Reflex... you're lacking a strong Will target spell. Consider Roaring Applause: it's a will spell which will sync with your Bon Mot and Intimidate, gives you a sustain option, and which can create slowed 1. If your Barbarian takes AoO it's even better.

I'd hold off on Shadow Projectile until you move up in spell levels. It's fine to dump on lower level slots but when you first hit 3, there's more potent / powerful things you can be doing. Time Jump has a lot of utility to be able to position better. It's definitely something you'll want to consider having at some point.

Edit: You may want to look at the Spell Trickster archetype instead of Pistol Phenom. A lot of your spell choices merge into it with Summon Ensemble giving you another Performance based debuff potential using your cantrip choice. Forceful Push and/or Larcenous Hand let you make that Mage Hand more useful. Siphoning Touch with Reach Spell could also be a great combo for adding temp HP to your Barbarian or Gunslinger friend in a pinch.

Cordell Kintner wrote:
The better question however is why.

If you have to ask this question, this rune wasn't meant for you. It's amazing that it's only level 2.

2/5 *** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

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I think having a second version of the scenario with different AcP would be an elegant and very thoughtful way to handle this.

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:
How does the druidic prohibition against metal armor and shields interact with armors and shields that are primarily made of a non-metal but have metal components like the studs of a studded leather armor, the mail undershirt of an armored coat (both are classed as part of the Leather category) or a wooden shield with a metal shield boss or shield spikes?

For simplicity, I've always used the armor category. It's the cleanest mechanically. Nothing prohibits a druid from having metal on their person at all (e.g. tools) so I just decided that if it's mentioned as primarily leather or wood, it's good to go.

2/5 *** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

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For what it's worth, we're facing a similar issue in Austin. Our primary local game store only stays open later on nights when Magic has tournaments, which provides a bit of flexibility but it messes with our usual schedule a lot.

If anything, this might help make a strong case for some higher level quests going forward too: maybe breaking some of these arcs into two parts each worth 2 xp.

Okay, so a few options.

The Blessed One dedication would give you lay on hands. This would help offset your slightly lower divine font and also give you a secondary use for your focus point when Death domain isn't relevant or prudent. You could just focus on cleric feats after that or keep boosting your lay on hands.

The Medic archetype can help boost your focus on non-spell healing, boosting your medicine proficiency and offering faster ways to get people up with Battle Medicine. This leaves you more flexibility to choose non-support spells. A nice feature of this archetype is that you can be done with it and move into other archetypes quite quickly since it has Skill feats.

Soul Warden is a specific archetype for Pharasmins. It'll focus heavily on stopping undead (which you're probably already pretty good at without the archetype) but it might be of interest.

For Druid, there will only be a bit of overlap with your Divine list -- mostly in the restorative side of things. You'll gain access to a lot of useful utility. For example, you could use the level 2 primal spell to cast heightened Longstrider giving you a significant movement speed boost all day. The divine list doesn't really give you ways to solve 'worldly' problems often, but primal gives you that even if you only have one spell per slot until you pick up the later feats.

For example:
Level 1 -
Gust of Wind: always relevant to blow away hazards or flying creatures
Pest Form: useful scouting utility
Jump: Quick maneuver or bypass hazard

Level 2 -
Longstrider: 8 hours of a good movement speed buff
Enlarge: Useful for some front liners (talk to your party)
Loose Time's Arrow: Mini haste for a round for the party
Spider Climb: Climb speeds can get you and your party around hazards

Level 3 -
Earthbind: Bring flying creatures down for melee to engage
Haste/Slow: Amazing spells
Wall of Thorns: Helps control the battlefield

As a bonus, it's wisdom based for you so your DC's won't be terrible even as the spell levels lag behind. You could use the cantrips granted to pick up some additional attack cantrips that Divine lacks (Electric Arc, Scatter Scree, Produce Flame, Ray of Frost, etc) to let you target reflex and / or more easily trigger elemental vulnerabilities.

You can also pick up a Druid focus power to offset your Death domain instead of grabbing Time or something else. Leaf order may be the most thematic, and it's focus power are also restorative (Goodberry) so it'd be a bit like grabbing the Blessed One dedication, except at level 4. The Stone or Storm orders might help you debuff opponents for your front line.

Bigdaddyjug wrote:
How did I miss sound burst on my cleric and bard? It seems so much better than concordant choir.

I personally think Concordant Choir is better for a few reasons:

1) Flexibility. 1, 2, or 3 action casts in a single spell is situationally useful.
2) Consistency. 4d4 (AVG 10) vs. 2d10 (AVG 11) is mostly equivalent on average but also has a better floor. I personally prefer more smaller dice even if the upper limit is lower (16 vs 20) since you're probably multiplying that by multiply opponents anyway.
3) No deafened effect. This can be valuable if you're trying to follow up with spells like Command or any other Sonic or Auditory ability.

But ultimately they sit in a repertoire about the same. Given the flexibility on Concordant Choir it's probably stronger a signature spell for a spontaneous caster.

Welcome to PF2. For some advice: don't stress too much about optimization. Your base class handles most of that for you with being a full divine caster. If you've maxed wisdom, you'll be able to cast spells offensively just as well as anyone else. Your 12 charisma will give you two top level heals per day -- probably for emergencies especially if you're leaning into medicine for out of combat healing. Nothing stops you from preparing additional heals too.

Spell choice will be the biggest thing to drive your build (probably more than feats). The divine list isn't super diverse, but you do have some decent options to do what you're trying to do with Fear, Agonizing Despair, and Phantasmal Killer (thanks to Pharasma). Calm Emotiions is also quite strong as a debuff if you have good initiative (clerics generally do with high initiative) and if you keep it in your top slot.

Those all focus on Will saves, so you'll want some backup spells known to target other saves if you want to be more of a debuffer. Concordant Choir is a very flexible variable action sonic damage spell which targets fortitude. If you can't use that spell or want to restrict yourself to Core, Sound Burst also works. It's not sexy, but until your party gets striking runes, Magic Weapon is probably the biggest heavy hitter especially if you're going against something immune to mind affecting and not undead.

At 1st level: Fear and Magic Weapon + 2 Heal spells is a pretty decent arsenal to bring.

As a cloistered cleric, you're probably going to be a little easier to hit so may want to stay at range. Death's Call may not see quite as much value for you since you need to be within 20 feet. That said, of Pharasma's domain that's a pretty strong pick. You may want to look at grabbing Expanded Domain Initiate at level 4 and pick up the Time Domain. The focus spell is a very powerful reaction (something you probably lack) which will help you maximize your heal spells. It's sort of another way to achieve what you were trying to do with Death's Call.

Otherwise, I'd definitely recommend looking at some archetypes. Don't be afraid to diversify. Rogue Dedication can be a simple addition that'll make it easier for you to wear armor, get you extra skill trainings, and additional skill feats. Druid can work if you want additional spells. If you tell us more about your concept and what you want to do, we may be able to help suggest others.

2/5 *** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

Oh I'll be there too. If you're running anything, let me know!

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Mer_ wrote:

Yeah but now that you are not your own ally can you hit yourself for 1d4 with the second strike of a flurry to target yourself with a spell storing weapon?

It's not good, but it's certainly shenanigans.

You could do that anyway, regardless of whether or not you're on own ally. Spell Storing only cares that you hit a creature.

2/5 *** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

It is notably inconsistent. I would expect that Community Knowledge was deemed too good for a level 1 ancestry feat, then Nanite Surge would need to be as well. Though admittedly because so many Android Feats key off of Nanite Surge, that may have been trickier to remove. That's all speculation though. I have no insight into why this wasn't allowed.

Since you're primal (elemental), I'm here to plug Geomancer if you want to unlock a kind of fun playstyle. The dedication and fourth level feat to enter any 'terrain' gives you a way to uniquely metamagic a lot of your spells.

I run a Halfling Fire Elemental sorcerer. Fire / Desert is my default, but I've selected my spells known to ensure I have a way to capitalize on earth, water, air spell effects too. I've grabbed a Verdant Staff, which with spontaneous casting allows me to cast plant spells from my staff too, so I can take advantage of the plant based terrains.

A default attack routine for me is to cast Elemental Toss (Fire), enter a Desert Attunement, and then throw a Fire Spell with a rider effect of debuffing everyone hit by it all in round one. There are other builds you can do by leaning into your selected element. An earth based one could have you casting earth spells and shifting your attunement benefit to give temp HP to others.

You have to be clever with your spell selection but it can really do some cool stuff if you lean into it. Secrets of Magic and some of the newer books have added a lot of dual-element spells which really makes this shine.

Depending on how tied you are to magic thematically, mechanically you may want to look at Inventor. It grants you explicitly non-magical ways to achieve many of the effects you're looking to create. You could make your shield or armor into your innovation when you choose the dedication at 2. From there you have a few options.

If you choose armor, you could grab Explosive Leap at 4 with Basic Innovation which would replicate Dimensional Assault, allowing you to leap around combat once per fight. You could give your armor the Otherworldly Protection or Muscular Exoskeleton modifications at 8 depending on how you were feeling or grab another Inventor feat like Megaton Strike, Gadget Specialist, or Searing Restoration.

If you chose weapon, Haphazard Repair would let you quickly repair your shield if you chose to make that your weapon innovation, admittedly only with a free hand though. Alternatively grab the same Explosive Leap as above. At 8 you could give it Entangling Form by grabbing Basic Modification, giving your shield the grapple and trip traits which pairs nicely with your use of aggressive block and allowing you to do all three main maneuvers with your shield.

Brilliant Crafter at level 6 would grant you expert crafting and then master when you hit 7, allowing you to diversify your skills. If you went with the armor innovation, that Muscular Exoskeleton at 8 would be granting you a +2 circumstance to all your shoves with your shield.

SuperBidi wrote:

I agree with Gortle. I've mostly played Divine casters (my main and 4th characters are ones) and the spell list is more interesting than it looks like at first glance. It's also true that nearly all divine casters can add a bunch of spells from other traditions (only Summoners and Witches can't).

Switching from Divine to Primal is obviously a strong change in terms of available spells but not one that will imbalance the game. I'd just bar Divine Access from the available feats as it's obviously related to Divine but also because Primal casters are not supposed to cherry pick spells from other traditions.

I agree that allowing the swap from divine to primal probably won't break the game, but the rational you're providing isn't backed up at all by the actual game. There's no hidden rule stating that "primal casters shouldn't be able to get spells from other lists." Every single primal class has built in ways to access it even before you get into archetypes like the Magaambyan Attendant and Halcyon Speaker.

Primal witches can grab spells from several lists via Lessons.
Primal sorcerers can get them from their bloodline (notably Fey/Nymph get a lot of arcane/occult spells) or from the Crossblooded Evolution feat.
Druids can accessa handful of illusions the via a level 8 feat.
Primal summoners can access illusions and enchantments with a Fey Eidolon.

So I don't really think it's fair to say that Primal isn't meant to go cross-tradition.

To the OP: An alternative approach would be to simply give your players the cleric ability to worship a deity and access their spells natively without needing to take Divine Access. This avoids the wholesale spell list swap. Oracles could still benefit from Divine Access by getting access to a second deity. Entirely homeruled, but it's a shorter throw and potentially less unbalancing.

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SuperBidi wrote:
I'm fully aware it's against RAI, but around tables like PFS ones where RAW is applied strictly it is the actual meaning of the rule.

PFS GMs GM's are empowered to use their discretion in the face of: "Unclear rules, or situations or player actions not covered by the rules." They are no robots bound to individual player interpretation of "RAW." In fact, you'll find no such phrasing in any PFS guidance for PF2.

If you came to me with this argument I would kindly tell you you're mistaken and move on with the game based on the fact that it doesn't make sense in the context of any other hunt prey or ranger edge ability. It's too good to be true and the simplest interpretation is that the language is a little weird.

You could, if you so chose, contest that ruling even as you've admitted your reading almost certainly isn't intended, and I'd just refer you up to another Venture officer who is probably going to agree that your reading doesn't make sense in the context of every other hunt prey ability.

2/5 *** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

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There's another 7-10 coming out next month.

It's also worth pointing out that the PFS devs have put a much higher focus on repeatable content in PF2 than they did in PF1. So much so that it's entirely possible to make an infinite number of characters and get them to level 5-6. I wouldn't necessarily recommend following this path exactly every time as it's not practical in many cases and you may not want to do the same scenarios over and over. But it does help with allowing play even when you're waiting to play one of your higher level characters.

Level 1:
Beginner's Box 1
Beginner's Box 2
Pathfinder Trials (1)

Level 2:
Intro 1: Second Confirmation (1-2)
Intro 2: United in Purpose (1-2)
Absalom Initiation (1-4)

Level 3:
Lions of Katapesh (1-4)
Tarnbreaker's Trail (1-4)
Lost on the Spirit Road (1-4)

Level 4:
Intro Season 3 (1-4)
Intro Season 4 (1-4)
Any random non-repeatable

Level 5:
Star Crossed Court (3-6)
Crashing Waves (3-6)
Guardians Covenant (3-6)

Level 6:
A Most Wondrous Exchange! (5-8, coming out Dec 2022)

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I think it's great that psychic adds options to players - that the dedication is competitive with others. But I don't think it's actually so good that it's a 'must-have' or 'game breaker.' If anything I'd like to see more multiclass dedications offer a bit more earlier.

Bard buffing was already available from the Bard dedication. Admittedly it comes online at 8, but amped guidance takes a reaction and a focus point.

A magus with psychic dedication doesn't get the psychic's ability to regain 2 points back between fights so a magus using these tricks isn't using their conflux spells. So yes, they can true strike nova once but they aren't using any of their other abilities.

2/5 *** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

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There were a handful of boons on PF1 chronicles marked 'Legacy' with the intent that they would potentially play forward. I can think of only one so far that was actually employed. But it's entirely possible we'll see others come into play as Season 3 was much more related to the Society's past and who knows what Season 4 will bring.

2/5 *** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

For what it's worth, the faction boons are relatively minor. They played a much larger role in season 1 but the last few seasons have placed significantly less emphasis on them. They can add a few unique options but you can reasonably ignore most of it.

That said, keep an eye out for the free Wayfinder boon (not to be confused with the one that costs AcP) when you hit a specific level of reputation.

The amount of healing doesn't really scale up from a single mutagen, but do note that at level 7 when Perpetual Alchemy comes online this does then translate to nearly infinite out of combat healing at the rate of 1d6 hp per round (for Mutagenists anyway).

That isn't to say that's necessarily worth it, but it's not nothing.

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Obligatory posting of the General Ambiguous Rules Clause:

Ambiguous Rules wrote:
Sometimes a rule could be interpreted multiple ways. If one version is too good to be true, it probably is. If a rule seems to have wording with problematic repercussions or doesn’t work as intended, work with your group to find a good solution, rather than just playing with the rule as printed.

We can probably argue until we're blue in the face but it's really going to come down to individual GMs adjudicating what makes sense at their table.

I look at the touch spells which explicitly had all of their errant attack traits removed in errata as a specific design choice to note that accuracy is not required for their delivery and that their adjudication is handled via the saving throw only. Given the divergence in how Shocking Grasp is handled vs. Vampiric Touch I'm inclined to argue that the specific spell mechanics (spell attack roll vs. saving throw) tell us how to adjudicate the interaction even if it isn't entirely satisfying from a simulationist perspective that two things which might narratively look similar (i.e. reaching out and touching someone to deliver a negative effect) don't behave the same way.

Mirror Image seems explicitly designed to confound accuracy. If we use the more general form of 'any attack' can trigger an image then Mirror Image goes from a powerful short term deterrent to physical attacks to a supercharged form of decaying concealment where flat checks can negate all kinds of attacks. That feels like a blanket level of protection that tracks more with how the spell worked in 1e than how spells more generally function in 2e with limited but powerful scope of effects.

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keftiu wrote:
The 1e Archetype that let your eyeballs fly out of your head seemed fun.

Can confirm. I had an Eyebiter Mesmerist in 1e which I played to level 13.

Do note that many canonical powers of a nymph naturally won't be available to any class in the extreme until later levels. That said, tree shape is a level 2 primal spell available to any primal caster so there's lots of options here. The primal list generally is going to give you that plant manipulation feel. Tanglefoot seems like a default choice for a cantrip. Lose the Path and Protector Tree are good thematic 1st level options. Entangle, Tree Shape, Barkskin, all become available at 2nd level spells. Wall of Thorns and Soothing Blossoms at 3rd, Murderous Vine at 4th, etc.

Leaf Order Druid is the most obvious pick emphasizing plant spells and magic. The familiar and Goodberry order spell set the leaf druid up to do the primary things you're looking for. At level 8 she could pick up Fey Caller to add some more fey like magic to spells available. She can also expand into the Wild Order or just pick up the Plant Shape feat later to also be able to turn into plants.

The Fey and Nymph sorcerer bloodlines also grant a full primal spellcaster with fey flavor. You could make these the primary class or perhaps select the Nymph bloodline on your Plant Druid as a multiclass dedication. This path emphasizes more of the charismatic nature of the fey while still having all the magical access a Druid would have.

A third direction you could take this is a Summoner with a Fey eidolon themed after a nymph or a Plant eidolon themed as a companion to the Summoner who is a bit more 'druid/nymph-like'. This will be more mechanically complex so may not be a good first choice but definitely a way to capture some of what she's looking for especially if she wants a companion to be a part of the fiction.

I think these are duplicative abilities and probably shouldn't stack based on the general rules about duplicate abilities. If you have two sources of darkvision, you don't get extra darkvision.

Duplicate Effects wrote:
When you’re affected by the same thing multiple times, only one instance applies, using the higher level of the effects, or the newer effect if the two are the same level. For example, if you were using mage armor and then cast it again, you’d still benefit from only one casting of that spell. Casting a spell again on the same target might get you a better duration or effect if it were cast at a higher level the second time, but otherwise doing so gives you no advantage.

The advantage of feats and abilities like this is that it lets you do something else with your exploration activity while still watching out for threats, not double down and effectively get extra rolls.

The Chronocognizance skill feat from the Time Mage archetype requires master in Perception. The dedication is clearly designed for spell casters but almost no spellcasters can qualify for that feat without Canny Acumen and being level 17 or are a bard. The only classes which naturally can reach Master perception are generally spell-less martials.

It seems like Master may be a mistake and expert would be more appropriate.

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I've debated whether or not to say this, but you asked for feedback.

I'm not going to read your guide. It might be okay, but it seems impossible that you'd have any relevant actual play experience with a class that was released less than 24 hours ago.

I hope that it's good, but honestly, I'd encourage you to take this post down and let this percolate a bit -- maybe play the class and offer first hand experiences or spend time discussing with others to consolidate their experiences rather than rush to be the first one with your name of the cover.

2/5 *** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

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Nefreet wrote:
cavernshark wrote:
Anything run in adventure mode is the wild west. As it stands, you could give out a chronicle to a player for attending a table read of the book and it's legal.

Mark is asking about PFS2's Adventure Mode, not PFS1's Campaign Mode.

Running Adventure Mode requires the game to be "Recognizably Pathfinder":

Part of the reason for changing from Campaign Mode to Adventure mode was to streamline the rules and make some major changes. But part of the reason for it was also to eliminate a lot of baggage campaign mode had acquired over the years.
(entire quote available through the link)

I'm fully aware that we're talking about (2e Adventure Mode). What I incorrectly assumed was obvious sarcasm aside, the ironic thing here is I'm advocating not adding a bunch of baggage to Adventure Mode by making arbitrary decisions about participation requirements.

2/5 *** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

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Mark Stratton wrote:
I think NielsenE's suggestion works the best. I was just looking to see if there was actually something official, and it appears there isn't. But, I might suggest that language addressing adventures and APs be added in a future draft (or, in the current language where it talks about scenarios, just add ", adventures, and adventure paths" to it (or whatever the appropriate language might be.

Do we really need that though? Anything run in adventure mode is the wild west. As it stands, you could give out a chronicle to a player for attending a table read of the book and it's legal. I'd just be upfront with your players about what the criteria is for your tables.

During the pandemic, I started running some APs for our lodge in an abridged format more amenable to PFS session blocks. To keep it inclusive, I asked that anyone who signed up try to attend future sessions of the book but also said that a single session was all that was necessary so long as their was a good faith attempt to play through. I expected some amount of session to session turnover.

None of that actually manifested and I haven't had to use it, but I'm still glad I *could* give out a chronicle to whomever supported the table in some capacity. I like that it's at the GM's discretion. As it stands the effort to play through even a shortened AP is 2-3x the amount of XP/Gold/Rep you'd get in return.

Probably for the same reason that a skeleton can still taste food and drink even as it doesn't need it, can smell without a nose, can touch without skin or nerves, and hear without the apparatus necessary to convert sound into information.

If you really want to walk the logic of "they don't have eyes so they should have darkvision" to it's logical conclusion, I think you'll find most narrative sensory experience totally useless for skeletons. It's still a game, not a perfect simulation.

2/5 *** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

If I understand your question correctly, this is the official answer:

Resource Rules for family or home groups wrote:
Family members, significant others, or other members of the same household (such as roommates) can share resources if they are playing at the same table, rather than requiring a separate copy of the same book for each person. A group of friends that always plays together at the same table fulfills this requirement, as long as all the necessary materials for each character's options are present. Members playing at separate tables must each supply their own materials as normal.

PF2 Character Options Page

So if you, the GM, own a book and always play with the same people at a home game, they can use that as a legal source for character building. But if they try to take those characters elsewhere, like a convention or another lodge, each player will need the source.

I think it's fair to assume that there's always a chance that more ancestry feats get added for various ancestries. But as for a focused product that does that explicitly... I probably wouldn't hold out too much hope. Something like Gnoll could maybe show up in the Impossible Lands book.

I think it's best to temper expectations a bit. If you have the flexibility, see if your GM would be okay granting you adopted ancestry and access to some other more generic feats from Human or something.

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Y'all, they may not have gotten to everything, but there's a lot of good clarifications in this. I'm thankful we got this and am not really upset about any of it. So thank you to the team.

Big standouts for me are the clarification on Strikes vs. attacks in battle forms and the addition of ranged unarmed strikes for Sneak Attack.