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** Pathfinder Society GM. 561 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 10 Organized Play characters.


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2/5

NemoNoName wrote:

Let's say I would like to play a Gnome Sorcerer that wears Heavy Armour. Right now, the options are to spend 3 General Feats on it, meaning I would have to wait until level 9 before I can actually wear any of it.

Alternatively, I could take a Champion dedication. But the only interesting thing from that Dedication is the proficiencies, so I would completely ignore the anathema. How would this be handled in PFS? Would there be any negative consequences?

Instead of ignoring the anathema and thereby creating the pretext for this question, wouldn't it just be easier to pick a deity that just sort of does what you want your character to do? I mean, if you're a gnome sorcerer Nethys (NG) seems like an obvious choice but there are a half dozen other deities with not-that-difficult to do anathemas.

I get that it isn't ideal, but it also isn't terribly burdensome. Other options will probably come out over time to make this particular problem easier to solve.


Charon Onozuka wrote:
Magical Tattoo archetype. Let anyone gain limited magical effects for tattooing magic onto their skin. Because magical tattoos are cool and no longer have to break the item slot restrictions.

Good news! The Runescarred archetype does just that.

2/5

andreww, of course, is correct.

Generally for seeker level content you should probably go over your character and make sure you have appropriate tools to deal with things that can end your career prematurely. Think back over the last few scenarios with this character, especially in the 10-11 tier. Where did you struggle? Did that expose gaps in your character which might be exploited again? If so, maybe look to buy items now.

Check that your saves are about as high as you can get them. I was told a long time ago and always try to keep my fort/will save at least as high as my character level, if not higher. A bad saving throw is ultimately what can ruin your day. In the event that doesn't work, look to have:

Ways to deal with ability damage/curses/diseases/poisons/petrification
Ways to deal with obscure combinations of defenses (DR/Resistances)
Ways to deal with different environments / hazards / terrains

If you know your team, you can coordinate and split up who buys what but even then it's often prudent to spread those tools around.

If you made it to 12 already have good saves and a lot of answers to common conditions, then you might not have bought a cool signature item yet. If you haven't and you have the wealth, it's worth considering doing so now. For a martial character, that might be juicing your primary weapon. For a caster, it might be getting a cool metamagic rod. There's a lot to be said for doing something fun at this tier to break out an awesome trick at this tier.


It seems to me like the elf is the one at a disadvantage when the dwarf stands around the corner of the ancient tunnel complex she's guarding waiting for the elf to finish sprinting away into the gently falling leaves outside, farther and farther from the ancient relic deep beneath the earth that the elf needs to acquire. Depending on how much time the elf spends sprinting away, our stalwart dwarf might even have time to set up a snare or two.

But that would probably make our dwarf a ranger, so she might also have had a precision crossbow she fired into the fleeing elf before stepping around the corner to reload. She might also have had an animal companion, maybe a wolf, whose support benefit lowers the target's speed. Regardless of her class, I'm guessing our dwarf guardian was smart enough to recognize her weaknesses and compensate for them in the same way our elven infiltrator probably made gear and feat choices to compensate for his race's frail natural stature and penalty to constitution.


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I, for one, am shocked that the OP didn't actually start this thread as a good faith discussion about the nuances of the wizard class in 2E. Shocked.

Is transmutation underwhelming now? Sure, maybe. But as others pointed out the modular nature of the game coupled with the ease of retrainjng means that new options can and probably will be released. We will almost certainly see alternate school focus powers and we have already seen new spells.

As for now it's the one of two classes with Int as the primary attribute, making it a solid skill based class (and you are going to have to work real hard to convince this forum that the alchemist is in a stronger spot). Being a prepared caster without an anathema also makes it one of the most versatile multiclass dedications for casting.


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Spamotron wrote:

The human ancestry feat Adapted Cantrip has that as its prerequisite.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=66

I've seen it recommended for human Champions and Monks to take a divine or occult caster multiclass dedication and then take the feat to pick up Electric Arc or Telekinetic Projectile for a strong dex independent ranged attack.

But does that even work RAW? Are the couple of cantrips you get from a multiclass dedication feat a "spellcasting class feature?"

Do other people think this prerequisite is confusing enough that it should be put in the errata and FAQ thread?

The dedications include text like "You cast spells like a sorcerer. You gain access to the Cast a Spell activity."

I'm pretty sure that gaining access to a feature that gives the Cast a Spell activity can reasonably be interpreted as a "spellcasting class feature," ergo a sorcerer, wizard, etc. dedication would count.


The SRD (Arhives of Nethys) has all of the rules. One of you probably should have a CRB as it helps piece it all together but everything is available.

If you want something self contained, there are already 3 Pathfinder Society scenarios published and two more coming in October. They are basically 4 hour self contained adventures. I enjoyed both the Mosquito Witch (1-02) and Escaping the Grave (1-03). Mosquito Witch is a cryptid hunting themed adventure in a small town. Escaping the Grave is a rescue/recovery mission in hostile territory.

The Absalom Initiation (1-01) is also a good intro to a lot of the different kinds of encounters, but its heavily versed in Pathfinder Society lore so might feel disjointed for your group. It's also a little more complicated to run since it's repeatable with random elements.

2/5

Quandary wrote:
I remember Hobgoblins are Uncommon. So I expect them to need some boon. Probably same for Lizardfolk and Leshy.

All three are uncommon based on the blog previews.


Ikorus wrote:

Student of perfection seems pretty neat, and its only a couple of feats. With all the extra class feats a human can potentially get, would it be stretching too thin to try and do that AND pick up a casting class for a familiar to gain an extra focus point and some good cantrips/1st-6th spells? Napkin math says that would be a max of 5, or a 25% focus increase from only being a student of perfection monk.

Is there anywhere i can get more information on these houses of perfection though? The abilities seem like fun wuxia film nonsense, which is awesome, but theres usually philosophical baggage a character needs to be able to mesh with.

I think doing Student of Perfection + Sorcerer + Familiar would be probably overloading a bit, but it's just a single feat for one extra focus point a day, so I'm not sure how useful it really is when given the alternatives.

In the build I posted above, you'd probably take Meditative Focus at 12 so you could regain 2 focus between encounters. At that point, for focus powers, you'd have ki strike (elemental), perfect strike, and a school ki power. You could also use the Natural Ambition feat to grab ki rush. I can't personally see 1 extra point a day being worth delaying getting that 2 points on a refocus or some other high level monk feat.

The Natural Ambition human ancestry feat only gives you a first level class feat for your chosen class (which is monk). You can't use it to pick up first level sorcerer feats since the way you get sorcerer feats is through your Archetype, and those are level 4+.

Houses of Perfection don't necessarily have a code of conduct. You could get the World Guide to get some info on them. There's also a little here. You could also track down some of the original Pathfinder versions for more details.


Trying to boost two mental stats to 14 out the gate might be a little tough and probably unnecessary. While your class DCs do key of Wisdom, not many monk powers have a save associated so you can probably do fine with a 12 in those stats. Don't forget you get 4 ability boosts at 5, one of which could easily bring a 12 charisma to 14 if you wanted to multiclass to bard or sorcerer a little later. You probably won't / shouldn't be focusing on attack spells anyway so you won't need a maxed spell attack role.

If you like the idea of an elemental themed monk, be sure to check out the Student of Perfection in the Lost Omens World Guide.

A theoretical build might look like this (note, I've not seen a build like this in play yet so this is speculation on my part):

Theoretical Elemental Monk:

Ancestry: Human, Versatile (Bonus 1st level General Feat - Toughness 1 [+1 HP per level], +2 Dex, +2 Str)

Background: Martial Disciple (+2 Dex, +2 Cha, Trained in Athletics and Warfare Lore, Quick Jump 1 Bonus Skill Feat [High Jump and Long Jump actions can be done as single actions that don't take a 10 foot stride beforehand])

Class: Monk (+2 Dex, Trained in Perception, Monk Class Features, 4+(0)[Int] Skills)

1st Level Ability Bonuses: +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Str, +2 Cha

HP 21 (10 + 8 + 2 + 1)
Str - 14
Dex - 18
Con - 14
Int - 10
Wis - 10
Cha - 14

5th Level Ability Boosts: +2 Dex, +2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Cha or Wis

Feats:
1) Free Feat (maybe a style)
2) Student of Perfection Dedication, + Ki Strike
4) Elemental Fist
6) Perfect Ki Adept - choose an element
8) Perfect Strike
9) Multitalented Human Ancestry - Sorcerer, Elemental Bloodline + Cantrips
10) Basic Casting (Gain 1st, 2nd, 3rd Level Primal Spell)


I think the idea of barbarian with monk stances is potentially a little clumsy since you'll need to use two actions just to get into rage and your stance. Rage also inherently works against the AC bonus you might be shooting with a mountain stance build. In that regard, I agree that if you're going to blend the two you should probably consider Monk base with minor emphasis on rage as a damage boost or do Animal Instinct barbarian with less emphasis on monk stances.

Hypothetical Level 6 Options (emphasis on defense):

Monk Base, Mountain Stance (1) + Mountain Stronghold (6) + Barbarian Dedication (2) for Rage

  • 24 AC = 6 (level) + 4 (expert) + 1 (dex, stronghold) + 4 (status, stance) - 1 (rage)
  • Takes two actions to get into stance, +5 movement thanks to monk
  • Only leaves you the level 4 feat open for other stuff
  • Dropping stronghold leaves you down 1 AC and frees a feat

Barbarian Base, Dragon Instinct, Monk Dedication (2), Mountain Stance (4)

  • 21 AC = 6 (level) + 2 (trained) + 4 (status) - 1 rage
  • Takes two actions to get into stance + rage - movement speed
  • Leaves level 1 and 6 feats open but you're slower and have the worst AC

    Barbarian Base, Animal Instinct, Monk Dedication (2), Animal Hide (6)

  • 24 AC = 6 (level) + 4 (expert) + 3 (dex) + 1 (status)
  • Takes 1 action to rage, granting armor + rage
  • Leaves you the level 1 and 4 class feats open for other stuff

    ----

    An theoretical animal instinct / monk build (leaving most skill and general feats free) that tries to blend unarmed attacks, decent defense, and some monk flavor.

    Barbarian (Animal Instinct - Snake or Snark) This gives you a strong natural attack, 1d10 piercing, with grapple so you have a way to scale up your athletics checks as you get item bonuses to natural attacks.

    1) (Class) Sudden Charge - Lets you get into combat quickly. Your first round is probably rage + sudden charge to get right up in someone's face. Could easily swap to another 1st level barbarian feat
    2) (Class) Monk Dedication - Your fists (bludgeoning) are now 1d6. This is usually a little wasted, but for you it gives you a different unarmed damage type to use while raging without violating your anathema
    2) (Skill) Titan Wrestler - you can now grapple bigger opponents
    4) (Class) Basic Kata - Crushing Grab. You now get to apply damage when you grapple
    6) (Class) Animal Skin - your rage now boosts your AC instead of decreasing it if you wanted to go the unarmored route. Starting with a 14 dex and boosting to 16 at 5 gives you a very strong AC without mountain stance (see above)
    8) (Class) Thrash - At this level, you can now do your rage + sudden charge combo in the first round or rage + stride + grapple. The next round you grapple, doing strength damage, and then attack at -5 and thrash (not an attack action) or thrash twice if you're having a hard time hitting for some reason. Furious Bully is also an option if you wanted to juice athletics further.
    10) (Class) Flurry - you can now bite twice for a single action.


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    Maybe include some notes on theoretical rituals, alterations to things like Animate Object or Plant Growth which end up having random effects on the ritual depending on the substitutions the wizard muses about.

    You could also toss in some nonchalant references in passages to a handful of minor outsiders. These could be used to conduct rituals to summon things like imps who might know more about the master's plans. Especially useful if the wizard is otherwise vague in describing important plot points.

    This physical journal as a plot piece a super cool idea which I may bogart in my own home game someday.

    2/5

    Michael Sayre wrote:

    Calisro likes being number one, and helping out Isger isn't inherently a bad thing; they take the brunt of a lot of Cheliax's decisions despite not having much say in what they're put through.

    If you're concerned about her backing Cheliax-sponsored events, you'll probably find Calisro's next call to arms a lot more palatable come November.

    You're being very careful not to say that helping Isger is a good thing either. ;)

    2/5

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    Rysky wrote:

    YAY ZARTA!

    Yay Centaur!

    Ya-

    blog wrote:

    Instead, Chelish leadership seeks a different resolution to their troubles: a state-sponsored bounty for the first group of explorers to chart a safe trade route from their vassal state Isger to the nation of Molthune in the north, creating a new passage that can bring economic prosperity to both nations.

    Not about to let the Pathfinders be outdone in the finding of new paths, Calisro Benarry, leader of the Horizon Hunters faction of the Society, called for the most intrepid explorers to take up the challenge and chart this new route.

    Well I know who not to work for going forward.

    Yea, this was really headscratcher, especially in light of all ambiguity around the alignment of the Church of Asmodeous being removed from this edition. Definitely not a good look for Calisro "Leeroy!" Benarry.


    Staves can be magic staves. Or rather magic staves can be wielded as staves and even get runes. That's probably why they don't have more traits.


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    If there's one thing I've seen from trying to read the rules vs. actually playing them is that there is a lot of subtlety that makes play mostly smooth and make sense. I don't think it's really possible to fairly judge the magic system without seeing it in context. That extra action on a single target haste doesn't seem like a lot until you sit there trying to figure out which action to use in your third action slot as a martial.


    Ascalaphus wrote:
    That said, it would be rather sad if natural weapons didn't get any shiny stuff of their own.

    It does seem far more likely that we'll eventually see class feats added to lists that are explicitly for natural weapons, especially as natural weapons occur on more and more classes. They could potentially even end up being ancestry feats to highlight combat styles developed by races that have them.


    Alyran wrote:
    PS: The more I type the word 'good', the less it looks like a real word...

    It isn't.


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    Elecelf wrote:

    The twin takedown feat states you need to have two melee weapons to use. But with the new ancestry the Iruxi it has been hinted that the will have claws or a tail as an unarmed attack. So this means that My (soon to be IruxI ranger) can't use his claws as the second weapon? Since it is not an actual melee weapon it does not qualify but if I wear a spiked gauntlet then it works. It seems if Paizo are going to come out with interesting ancestry it would be nice to add them to classes.

    It might be a little early to presume that something unpublished is a problem. It is probably also okay that not every feat works for every weapon and race equally. A Iruxi ranger can use twin takedown the same as any other character.


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    @Rysky

    Rysky wrote:
    They don’t need to explain why goblins aren’t driven out of major cities because that’s never been a thing.

    If that were true, we wouldn't be having these threads every other week and it would be a lot easier to find examples of communities of goblins existing inside major Golarion cities alongside other races.

    As it stands most examples we have are fringe encounters between non-evil goblin tribes and small communities. Individual goblin examples notwithstanding. And, unfortunately, most of these examples are buried in the scattered narratives of PF1 scenarios that many players may never experience.

    It also doesn't help that most of the goblin traits and feats are direct callbacks to the same cultural features and traits that are used by goblin antagonists.


    Rysky wrote:

    @cavernshark

    There actually has been plenty of material put out, and more is constantly being put out as well. There’s a friendly tribe of goblins in Hellknight Hill, the first 2e AP.

    They don’t need to explain why goblins aren’t driven out of major cities because that’s never been a thing.

    That's good to hear. I haven't had any exposure to the AP yet but that's precisely the kind of thing that's needed.

    The only other place I'm aware of where goblins as a group aren't portrayed as murderous scavengers with weird idiosyncratic tribal tendencies is the PFS Breath of the Dragonskull scenario and even that deals with extreme tensions and prejudices between goblins and other groups.


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    If you like goblins as a core race, great.

    If you don't like goblins as a core race, do what Paizo should have done and make it an uncommon race in your campaign.

    Whether you like goblins or not as a PC race, we can all probably agree that Paizo has not yet provided enough information to fully justify this sea-change between the editions. With a handful of exceptions, we mostly only have examples of goblin culture that make them look "monstrous" and generally wouldn't explain why major towns and cities in most adventure paths wouldn't try to drive out a goblin PC. People would probably assume they're evil not because of misguided stereotypes or racism but because goblin society is generally chaotic and evil by most objective definitions based on almost all the information we've been provided over the last decade.

    So instead of calling each other racists, maybe we could turn our attention to Paizo and ask for some more supporting material to help players and GMs rationalize this change and integrate goblins better into the setting if that's the goal.

    Otherwise we're going to keep having this debate as long as this is what we're working with.

    [EDIT]
    As an example (intentionally avoiding spoilers), there's a goblin NPC in Fall of Plaguestone. This module is set in Isger, one of the places in Golarion that has probably most acutely suffered from goblins in the recent past. This is a missed opportunity to explain some of the in-world softening to goblins and it's totally glossed over.

    2/5

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    "Leg o' Lamb wrote:
    Tengu was a better choice than goblin.

    Preach.


    You are correct that a 5th level spirit walker mesmerist who also picks up the bold stare psychic inception can always affect undead with mind-affecting spells for full effect (saves notwithstanding) and can use the normal rules of psychic inception on any other target usually immune to mind-affecting spells.


    See relevant passages below. You effectively recharge your slots only, unlike a prepared caster who has to make specific choices. But you do have a daily preparation.

    Rest and Daily Preparation wrote:

    Source Core Rulebook pg. 480

    You perform at your best when you take enough time to rest and prepare. Once every 24 hours, you can take a period of rest (typically 8 hours), after which you regain Hit Points equal to your Constitution modifier (minimum 1) times your level, and you might recover from or improve certain conditions (page 453). Sleeping in armor results in poor rest that leaves you fatigued. If you go more than 16 hours without resting, you become fatigued (you cannot recover from this until you rest at least 6 continuous hours).

    After you rest, you make your daily preparations, which takes around 1 hour. You can prepare only if you’ve rested, and only once per day. Preparing includes the following:

  • Spellcasters regain spell slots, and prepared spellcasters choose spells to have available that day.
  • Focus Points, other abilities that refresh during your preparations, and abilities that can be used only a certain number of times per day, including magic item uses, are reset.
  • You don armor and equip weapons and other gear.
  • You invest up to 10 worn magic items to gain their benefits for the day.
  • Spontaneous Spells wrote:

    Source Core Rulebook pg. 298

    If you’re a spontaneous spellcaster—such as a bard or a sorcerer—you choose which spell you’re using a spell slot for at the moment you decide to cast it. This provides you with more freedom in your spellcasting, but you have fewer spells in your spell repertoire, as determined by your character level and class. When you make your daily preparations, all your spell slots are refreshed, but you don’t get to change the spells in your repertoire.


    Just here to agree with the others that it generally shouldn't ever get empty. I feel like any point where you wouldn't be able to just restock in the background, that's a plot point and a special exception to the general rule.


    Ubertron_X wrote:
    However for our first game we decided to go for style and did not do much meta-gaming upfront, so the dwarf fighter chose a battle axe to go with his shield, the Aragorn type ranger chose bastard sword to go with his longbow and my warpriest of Sarenrae is "bound" to scimitar to compliment my shield.

    I made a fighter for my first game who had a Farmhand background so I gave him a staff, sickle (trip), and shield. I ended up tripping a lot to set up flat-footed enemies for the two rogues in the party. While I had assurance (athletics) from a background, I rarely used it as the third action, choosing to raise shield instead. A visit to the store is all it takes for your party to grab a backup weapon with the trip property. If you can't do that based on where you are in the campaign, maybe just swap out some treasure loot and drop a handful of weapons with various properties. None of that requires a change in build, just a willingness to pick up a different weapon from time to time.

    Your war priest might have the hardest time if you're not willing to use a different weapon.

    Your ranger can always drop a hand from his weapons as a free action to have one hand free and do a maneuver. The bastard sword in particular does not need to be wielded two handed if they don't want to use an interact action to resume the two handed grip.

    Your fighter also has a lot of great ways to do maneuvers, often without needing to make an athletics check at all. Most are level 2 to 4

    Aggressive Block:
    Free Action 2
    Fighter
    Source Core Rulebook pg. 145
    Trigger You use the Shield Block reaction, and the opponent that triggered Shield Block is adjacent to you and is your size or smaller.
    You push back as you block the attack, knocking your foe away or off balance. You use your shield to push the triggering creature, either automatically Shoving it 5 feet or causing it to become flat-footed until the start of your next turn. The triggering creature chooses whether to be moved or become flat-footed. If it chooses to be moved, you choose the direction. If the Shove would cause it to hit a solid object, enter a square of difficult terrain, or enter another creature’s space, it must become flat-footed instead of being moved.

    Brutish Shove:
    Fighter Press
    Source Core Rulebook pg. 145
    Requirements You are wielding a two-handed melee weapon.
    Throwing your weight behind your attack, you hit your opponent hard enough to make it stumble back. Make a Strike with a two-handed melee weapon. If you hit a target that is your size or smaller, that creature is flat-footed until the end of your current turn, and you can automatically Shove it, with the same benefits as the Shove action (including the critical success effect, if your Strike was a critical hit). If you move to follow the target, your movement doesn’t trigger reactions.

    This Strike has the following failure effect.

    Failure The target becomes flat-footed until the end of your current turn.

    Knockdown:
    Fighter Flourish
    Source Core Rulebook pg. 146
    Prerequisites trained in Athletics
    You make an attack to knock a foe off balance, then follow up immediately with a sweep to topple them. Make a melee Strike. If it hits and deals damage, you can attempt an Athletics check to Trip the creature you hit. If you’re wielding a two-handed melee weapon, you can ignore Trip’s requirement that you have a hand free. Both attacks count toward your multiple attack penalty, but the penalty doesn’t increase until after you’ve made both of them.


    Arudato wrote:

    So, I'm pretty new to PF2E and so far I love the flexibility and ideas it brings to the table. I was never a theorycrafter and I'm also a GM for life, so Player Building in PF1E and other games were always something I usually didn't experiment much with.

    I recently started playing Play by Post with Pathfinder Society rules here in the official forums, and I have some character concepts in mind that I want to see better fleshed out.

    First one is a character entirely built around making the most of having a familiar. I love pet based classes and since we still don't have Summoner + Eidolon, I'll take what I can get. I like Familiars more than Animal Companions right now as they allow for more imagination and customization without having to worry about mantaining two statblocks.

    Second one is a Wizard who gets the most out of Transmutation. Bonus points if I can make it work with a Familiar :P I don't yet understand how wearing armor affects magic in this system, I was thinking of an offensive oriented Transmutation character.

    I'd like to know how to make this actually work, any ideas?

    Disclaimer: I have no idea if this would work, but maybe try this on for a basic start. It'll be rough until 4, though, I think.

    Transmutation Wizard, Familiar Thesis
    Feats
    (1) Physical Boost School Power
    (2) Monk Dedication, Skill Feat (Titan Wrestler), Skill Increase (Athletics)
    (4) Basic Kata - Mountain Stance
    (6) Advanced Kata - Crushing Grab or Linked Focus
    (8) Advanced School Spell - Shifting Form

    Familiar Powers:
    Familiar Focus (regain a focus point)
    Cantrip Connection (extra cantrip)
    Manual Dexterity (can take manipulate actions)
    ????

    Likely spells:
    1st: Mage Armor, True Strike
    2nd: Enlarge Person, False Life
    4th: Aerial Form
    5th: Cloak of Colors, Elemental Form

    Pick other spells for utility I think.

    The goal would be to make your contribution in combat less about damage and more about using Athletics to control the battlefield.

    Offensively, there's nothing stopping you with keeping up with a fighter when it comes to Athletics. You can use your physical boost on yourself to get even better and your familiar can give you one of the few ways to regain focus outside of the refocus activity to do it more frequently. With Titan Wrestler and Enlarge Person, you'll reasonably be able to shove, trip, and grapple creatures of huge size very quickly.

    Defensively, you'll have a hard time picking up armor, but mountain stance frees you up to focus on strength to reach your offensive goal while keeping your defense up. Mountain stance is a status bonus to armor and Mage Armor is an item bonus, so you're able to have an appreciable defense at this point. But again, this doesn't come online until 4 so that's not great. Your familiar can also hang out on your shoulder and if you need a potion to heal, spend a single action to have the familiar grab the potion and feed it to you.

    I imagine your combat might work like this:

    1st Round: Activate Mountain Stance (1 action), Cast a Spell like enlarge person (2 actions)
    2nd Round: Stride to melee (1 action), physical boost (1 action), grab/shove/trip (1 action).
    3rd Round: adapt as needed

    Later you could shift into battle forms and rely on that instead. Honestly, writing this up makes me want to try it.


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    Thomas Keller wrote:
    Thank you for taking the time to answer, but I'm looking for something official here.

    Somehow I had a feeling that quoting directly from the CRB wasn't going to be sufficient. Good luck with that.


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    Thomas Keller wrote:
    1. Do casters have to do the "Learn a Spell" activity for spells they gain upon level up?
    No. There's no action specified for this, so it's an automatic benefit of leveling up. The learn a spell action only grants you access to a spell, it doesn't add it to your repertoire (specifically stating you still have to add the spell in the usual ways, which further implies this isn't the action to add spells to repertiores). This probably exists as a way to gain uncommon and rare spells added to your list, or to extend your spell list beyond the common core options.
    Spell Repertoire wrote:
    Each time you get a spell slot (see Table 3–17), you add a spell of the same level to your spell repertoire.
    Thomas Keller wrote:
    2. For spontaneous casters, is the Spell Known a hard limit, or may they know all of the spells they have a good level for? For example, can a third level Draconic bloodline sorcerer know all the arcane cantrips, first level and second level spells, with a limit only on how many they can cast per day (4 first level and 3 second level)?

    Hard limit. Reread Spell Repertoire in the Sorcerer description. It's very specific how many spells are in your repertoire and how you can add to that. Outside of feats which may add to it, that's the base assumption.

    Spell Repertoire wrote:

    The collection of spells you can cast is called your spell repertoire. At 1st level, you learn two 1st-level spells of your choice and four cantrips of your choice, as well as an additional spell and cantrip from your bloodline (page 194). You choose these from the common spells from the tradition corresponding to your bloodline, or from other spells from that tradition to which you have access.You can cast any spell in your spell repertoire by using a spell slot of an appropriate spell level.

    You add to this spell repertoire as you increase in level. Each time you get a spell slot (see Table 3–17), you add a spell of the same level to your spell repertoire. When you gain access to a new level of spells, your first new spell is always your bloodline spell, but you can choose the other spells you gain. At 2nd level, you select another 1st-level spell; at 3rd level, you gain a new bloodline spell and two other 2nd-level spells, and so on. When you add spells, you might choose a higher-level version of a spell you already have so that you can cast a heightened version of that spell.

    Thomas Keller wrote:
    3. Are there no bonus spells for high ability scores any longer?

    None.


    Wolftame wrote:
    Sidenote, is there any good deity with the mace as favored weapon (that would be usable for a PFS2e character)?

    Currently, no.

    In first edition, there were several non-core deities with LG or LN profiles who had the mace (light or heavy) as their favored weapon. You might be able to work with your GM to modify their domains into PF2 domains and make it work.


    PossibleCabbage wrote:
    One thing I'm not sure of is- are Campaign Backgrounds like Campaign Traits in PF1 where you'd always want to spend one of your traits on a campaign trait since they're just better than other traits.

    I don't think they'll necessarily get any more powerful or better until more skill feats are released. The Age of Ashes, Fall of Plaguestone, and Lost Omens World Guide backgrounds all follow the same formula and use the same feats. A handful of LOWG backgrounds used some skill feats not used in core (e.g. Recognize Spell) but they fundamentally aren't more powerful yet. So it's mostly just flavor and the lore skill, which you noted.


    I'd just say that it seems completely reasonable to give the player a different skill feat in this instance (choosing a class feat which would be thematically appropriate to how the player has played, but which invalidates a background skill feat), even if it isn't purely by the rules. If I was a GM, that'd be how I'd handle it. You could easily limit the extra feat to one from thematically similar backgrounds (e.g. like the list up thread) or from a small list of other thematically appropriate feats.

    2/5

    It would be helpful if the section on downtime also included some clarifications on the choices players can make using the Train Animal feat which is legal and a part of many backgrounds.

    Based command an animal: "Most animals know the Leap, Seek, Stand, Stride, and Strike basic actions. If an animal knows an activity, such as a horse’s Gallop, you can Command the Animal to perform the activity, but you must spend as many actions on Command an Animal as the activity’s number of actions. , Core Rulebook pg. 249

    Train Animal appears to be a way that players can spend downtime to expand this list (ostensibly to do things like train a companion to make an athletics check to shove or trip), but it seems like we'd need a list of valid actions and amount of downtime required for this to work in PFS.

    Even if animal companions don't need that feat to do those alternate actions, a player who takes that feat to train a regular animal currently lacks the guidance to do so. It's in several backgrounds in the core rule book and the lost omens world guide.


    While not an elemental themed archetype, you can take misc. options to create a theme for an elemental druid that gets what you want. You could take one of the Elemental Plane domains (Plane of Earth, Plane of Fire, etc.) on your druid. Many of them provide benefits related to the elemental plane you pick and the 8th level power lets you take the domain power or an elemental familiar. This option on a vanilla druid would let you keep Wildshape while still theming you towards dealing with elementals.

    As for summoning elementals, that's covered well with the basic summoning druid capabilities since they're all on Summon Nature's Ally as is. Take the Plane of X domain. For feats, take (1) Spell Focus (Conjuration), (3) Augment Summons, and then get Natural Spell to speak while wild shaped and/or Versatile Summon Nature's Ally to apply elemental templates to other creatures you summon.

    For traits, there are also some good ones like Affinity for the Elements, Elemental Negotiator, or Outsider Ties to also show your connection to the elemental planes.


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    Malk_Content wrote:
    The new exploration mode shouldn't really slow the game down at all. For me it is exactly the same as I've always been doing in every rpg ever, just with rules to tell you that what you are doing outside combat effects the start of combat.

    I agree with MC. It took me GMing two scenarios of PFS 2E to really "get" encounter mode. I understood the rules mechanically, but I finally sort of figured out how it helps the GM and just provides a better way to handle the somewhat awkward tactics employed by PCs in 1E (e.g. searching everything meticulously with perception while also getting the benefits of constant detect magic).

    Since there are trade-offs now, you really want everyone in the party to explore in the way that's best suited for their character. In the last game I GMed, the party generally did the following:

    A fighter scouted, giving everyone a +1 on initiative
    A cleric and a second fighter searched for hazards / threats / etc, getting to make secret perception checks
    A second cleric detected magic which made finding magic loot easy
    A sorcerer investigated to recall knowledge giving secret recall knowledge
    A champion defended to be ready for a fight

    Once that was established, it made it really easy to bounce back and forth from encounter mode to exploration mode. When dealing with specific problems that weren't combat, we sort of stayed in a sort of soft encounter mode letting each player dictate their actions, but then we walked "back out into the hall," I'd check if everyone was going back into the same exploration and we just kept moving.

    The system really encourages teamwork instead of everyone just rolling every check they can, which also really can make it hard to actually surprise the party (5-6 x perception checks have a much better chance of catching every clue and hazard the point where you either need to juice the old DCs or just accept the party will find *everything*)


    lemeres wrote:
    Anyway, a more interesting method is to steal a bit from the kineticist and give the elements two options- one elemental, and one physical. That would allow a single element to cover more situations. That would likely be a decent class feat to add.

    There's nothing stopping you from doing that with your other spells. The elemental bloodlines basically give you three shaped attacks (single target, cone, and blast) with your element that you can use with signature spell to always have an attack in your primary element available. This frees you up to grab other spell energy types using your other spells. Pick up dangerous sorcery if you want to do additional damage on those alternate energy spells too.

    As far as the movement types go, if it isn't useful for your campaign you can skip that bloodline power and pick up something else instead.


    Perpdepog wrote:

    I got what you were going for, I am just being a dummy and not getting where in your examples it says that you can command and sustain with the same action.

    I'm basing most of my thinking about how uncommanded minions might work off of that last line, though now I'm seeing the bit about them being left unattended, so nvm on that.

    Sustaining Spells wrote:

    Source Core Rulebook pg. 304

    If the spell’s duration is “sustained,” it lasts until the end of your next turn unless you use a Sustain a Spell action on that turn to extend the duration of that spell

    The description under minion tells us that the action to sustain the summon is a single action verbal command, unless the spell tells us otherwise. They are not two different things in this case, the second clause just modifies the sustain a spell action by giving it the auditory and concentrate traits. This just tells us how sustaining the summon might interact with other rules (e.g. a raging barbarian can't sustain without mad magic, a deaf summoner may fail the action, and a deaf minion can't be commanded)


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    Perpdepog wrote:

    I'm not quite getting the one action over two action usage from your examples.

    Also keep in mind that the summon trait says that your summons will "generally attack your enemies to the best of their ability." That could be taken to mean that your command action only tells your summon precisely what to do, not that it will do nothing if you don't command it.

    A generous GM might allow it, but the summoned creature is also a minion and the rules for minions are such that: "If given no commands, minions use no actions except to defend themselves or to escape obvious harm."

    The "generally attack enemies to the best of their ability" probably means that the summoned creature won't refuse to use it's most powerful abilities and strongest attacks. You can summon and angel to fight an angel -- it's not going to refuse to fight at it's fullest if you give the command.

    I was trying to show that the action economy for a summons isn't as bad as Ravingdork made it out to be. Usually a spellcaster would have 3 actions (ex. stride once with 1 action, cast a spell with two actions). While sustaining a summon spell (1 action), the minion will get 2 actions and the caster will still have 2 actions to cast another spell, stride and strike, stride and cast shield, etc. That player effectively has 4 actions split between the minion and the character even after paying the action cost to sustain the spell.


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    Ravingdork wrote:

    The conjuration tag says that creatures summoned by summon spells are minions. The minion tag says that minions get two actions, provided you spend one of your own to command them.

    All summon spells that I've seen thus far also need to be sustained, so you need to spend an action every round just to keep your summon from poofing.

    Is that really the way it works? I have to spend two actions every round maintaining and commanding my summon, who themselves only gets two actions?

    What am I missing? That seems borderline useless.

    You cast a summon, as a three action activity. The summon appears. It has the summoned trait. Per that trait, it immediately takes it two actions -- you have already paid the action cost for this round. It is also a minion. On subsequent rounds, per the minion trait, you must sustain the spell as a single action, which is usually a verbal action with the auditory and concentrate traits. The creature then takes its 2 actions as any minion. There is no second action to command - it is a part of the action to sustain the spell.

    So, in short:

    On round 1, you get effectively 5 actions -- 3 of your actions to summon, 2 for the summoned minion.

    On round 2 and subsequent rounds, you effectively get 4 actions. You spend 1 of your actions to sustain the spell (-1), and then the minion takes 2 (+2), and you still have two to use (+2)

    Summoned wrote:

    Source Core Rulebook pg. 637

    A creature called by a conjuration spell or effect gains the summoned trait. A summoned creature can’t summon other creatures, create things of value, or cast spells that require a cost. It has the minion trait. If it tries to cast a spell of equal or higher level than the spell that summoned it, it overpowers the summoning magic, causing the summoned creature’s spell to fail and the summon spell to end. Otherwise, the summoned creature uses the standard abilities for a creature of its kind. It generally attacks your enemies to the best of its abilities. If you can communicate with it, you can attempt to command it, but the GM determines the degree to which it follows your commands.

    Immediately when you finish Casting the Spell, the summoned creature uses its 2 actions for that turn.Summoned creatures can be banished by various spells and effects. They are automatically banished if reduced to 0 Hit Points or if the spell that called them ends.

    Minion wrote:

    Source Core Rulebook pg. 634

    Minions are creatures that directly serve another creature. A creature with this trait can use only 2 actions per turn and can’t use reactions. Your minion acts on your turn in combat, once per turn, when you spend an action to issue it commands. For an animal companion, you Command an Animal; for a minion that’s a spell or magic item effect, like a summoned minion, you Sustain a Spell or Sustain an Activation; if not otherwise specified, you issue a verbal command, a single action with the auditory and concentrate traits. If given no commands, minions use no actions except to defend themselves or to escape obvious harm. If left unattended for long enough, typically 1 minute, mindless minions usually don’t act, animals follow their instincts, and sapient minions act how they please.


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    Ubertron_X wrote:
    Castilliano wrote:
    ...

    Thanks for your explanations but I still do not know what to make of it because even the massively buffed out of combat healing in PF2 still feals weird sometimes.

    "Hey, we are in the midst of exploring this abandoned tower crawling with monsters but running low on HP and healing spells, should we continue to press our luck until we can be sure that there is nobody else left? Naaa, lets totally just set up camp here and do a multi-hour break using Medicine on everyone before we enter the very next room..."

    Wands at least keept you going through all of the "scene".

    I don't see why this is any different than the 10 minute adventure day in 1E. As a GM, you handle it the same way. Sometimes if a team is really strapped for resources you cut them slack and let them rest a bit. If they're just exploiting the nature of 10 minute rests then you send some random encounters to mess with them. They'll catch on (or they won't).

    It's also a lot harder to make a safe camp in 2E. A lot of spells like Rope Trick are higher level.


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    John Lynch 106 wrote:
    Although at this point I’d be pretty disappointed if I’d bought this book.

    I bought the book and read it cover to cover and wasn't disappointed. The Armiger makes sense as an entry path into the Hellknights and it's not hard to see how they might be setting up for the full Hellknight and Signifier in the future.


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    PFS scenarios seem to be written with the understanding that most PFS characters will have pathfinder training from the Scrolls, Spells, or Swords schools. Two training points in those schools grants players an extra lore off of a fixed list. In the PFS scenarios I've played so far, those lore skills came up more than others so I wouldn't be surprised it they're intentionally trying to make some lore more relevant that others.

    We'll need a larger sample size to be sure.


    For those who are dogging on the Runescarred, it's worth pointing out that unlike other spellcaster multiclass dedications, this one can get a 4th level spell by level 10. If you're picking buffs/utility spells anyway.

    Currently, the base multiclasses can only do that by 12 when they pick up their Expert Spellcasting feat. It's the same number of feats spent either way, but depending on your campaign it might be nice to get access to that 4th level spell sooner.


    Just gonna say Ratfolk since there isn't enough Round Mountain love in this thread.


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    Syries wrote:
    TL;DR the arbitrary idea of rarity in a game system like this limits character creation and forces players to jump through hoops to make the character they want to play, which could ultimately turn people off from the idea altogether.

    Counterpoint: the arbitrary idea of rarity in a game system like this guides players into conversations with their game master and encourages the development of in-world rationale when making characters they want to play, which could ultimately make those decisions less disruptive to game play and potentially more rewarding.

    I mean, you've obviously given some good thought on how regional access might work in your own game. Maybe suggest it to your GM why you should be able to get an uncommon dwarven item at common access level when in Janderhoff?


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    It seems silly to rush to the forums when most of us can't actually read the book yet and you said yourself you didn't really read it.

    For PFS, it's likely there will be some kind of access boon for things like "member of a Hellknight order"

    For a home game, talk to your GM? It's kind of unrealistic for everything to be 100% spelled out in the new edition all at once. Draw on 1E for a little bit.


    Bigguyinblack wrote:

    I plan to play a Rogue for society play that focuses on Medicine. And he will have the Tapestry Refugee background. But while I've played in many adventures that took place in the tapestry, Most occurred in small communities. Which was the point of course, I don't think Hao Jin grabbed many large cities.

    So for my sake I'm looking for a good origin for my rogue but if someone could list some areas in the Tapestry along with some general non-spoilery info it wold help anyone considering the background.

    The wiki is pretty light on details but may help you. The section on inhabitants in particular may give you a good starting point.

    Sadly, one of the best ancestry choices for that background isn't an option yet.


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    It seems to me that, while the GM gets to decide what a "useful piece of knowledge" would be, a player could reasonably communicate to said GM at the beginning of the game or before the knowledge check what kind of information they would find useful.

    If I'm an elemental sorcerer, I might tell the GM that I'm usually interested in identifying creatures weak to my element. The GM could then go out of their way to choose that knowledge when I attempt to recall knowledge, or override it and give me something else they want the party to know about a given creature (e.g. it's going to do a devastating attack in 3 rounds unless you account for it).

    It's frustrating that it takes an action to get info now, but I also understand the trade-off.


    It's worth pointing out that this delay of needing to maintain the grapple is relevant if you're trying to attack the creature otherwise. For example, a ruffian rogue might stride (move), grapple (attack), and then strike (attack, -5) hoping for sneak attack. On the next round, assuming the creature hasn't broken out, the rogue could strike (attack) for sneak attack twice (0,-5), and then try to maintain the grapple (attack, -10).

    This might make sense if the rogue thought he could kill the creature with a single attack, freeing up remaining actions to do things like move to another target. But if the rogue wasn't sure if he could kill the creature, he might be better off maintaining the grapple first, and then striking twice.

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