cavernshark's page

** Pathfinder Society GM. 512 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 9 Organized Play characters.


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It's worth pointing out that this delay of needing to maintain the grapple is relevant if you're trying to attack the creature otherwise. For example, a ruffian rogue might stride (move), grapple (attack), and then strike (attack, -5) hoping for sneak attack. On the next round, assuming the creature hasn't broken out, the rogue could strike (attack) for sneak attack twice (0,-5), and then try to maintain the grapple (attack, -10).

This might make sense if the rogue thought he could kill the creature with a single attack, freeing up remaining actions to do things like move to another target. But if the rogue wasn't sure if he could kill the creature, he might be better off maintaining the grapple first, and then striking twice.

Castilliano wrote:

Not worth it. So much else you could do with those feats.
You'll already be able to get off your good first shots w/ an occasional second shot or Shield (where the other version would have to take his Hunt Prey action again). If you really need to drop a boss, 3-action Magic Missile.

It's probably easier to pull off on a ranger base with multiclass bard since a human can get monster hunter and hunted shot at level 1, plus will have easier access to other boosts.

I disagree that it's a waste of feats for a bard though, if you're trying to use a bow or crossbow anyway. If you're a bard, you are probably going to be spending an action on inspire courage. This combo lets you recall knowledge while hunting prey, which is also an action you'll want to do if you are the party know it all. If you get lucky and crit success you don't need to inspire that round and could then cast a two action spell or do something like true strike and crossbow mastery.

If you're a caster bard, then by all means do something else. I was just pointing out the synergy if that is what you wanted to do.

There are a few other options you might consider to fill in the gaps before aerial form. They are thematic for a transmuter.

  • Multiclass alchemist and use bestial mutagens, which are polymorph effects. Grab revivyfing mutagen at 4 to double your mutagens as heals. Use your other spells to boost defenses and add utility.
  • Multiclass druid and get an animal companion. Mature it at 8. Use your buffs on the animal to help control the battlefield. Eventually shapeshift to fight with it. Could pick up the heal animal focus spell as well.
  • Multiclass ranger to get an animal companion as with Druid above. Instead of maturing it, pick up Monster Hunter at 6 to hunt prey while recalling knowledge in a single action. This represents your study of other creatures and with your high int gives you a better chance of triggering the group buff.

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    I was just looking at a combination of a bard with enigma muse and some low level hunter feats, specifically Monster Hunter. You'd be able to hunt prey and make a recall knowledge check as a single action -- which if you have bardic lore it means you've basically got an encyclopedia at your disposal. It's basically the equivalent of the 10th level Master Monster Hunter feat, but online much sooner. If you're relying on ranger feats to fight, this might be a pretty good combo. (Recall Knowledge + Hunt Prey via monster hunter; inspire courage; hunted shot for two strikes)


    Ward Davis wrote:
    cavernshark wrote:
    ...I'd much prefer that than being offered the same +1 cloak of resistance on every chronicle, which was already always available...

    Minor nitpick and one of my complaints about PFS1. The Cloak of Resistance +1 was not always available and was not available until 9 fame. For this reason I would often chronicle fish to put GM credit for a Confirmation on any caster characters I was making.

    Yes, calling that chronicle fishing is a huge exaggeration.

    Pearls of power were another contender for the first major purchase that was unavailable for characters that did not want armor.

    Yes this is/was minor but with some module credits in the mix, 9 fame felt like a long time. Especially when you would fail a save by one in the meantime.

    All the tea time aside, I see that as a difference without distinction. Players often can't afford the items on chronicles when they first unlock them.

    Chronicle fishing is a biggest problem when it locks character options behind a single character. Hopefully they'll unlock those options for all of a players characters. We also have a paradigm for passing unique loot between characters now.

    There will inevitably a certain amount of metagaming any reward system, but I'd rather they take a shot at doing something interesting if our only other option is straight gold rewards. Let's see how it works out before casting judgement is all I'm saying. It seems promising so far.


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    shadowhntr7 wrote:
    So another problem I see with this system, and that nobody seems to have mentioned yet, is chronicle fishing. What's to stop people from using certain games to get access to something that would make their character work better/be more on theme? I understand that we can buy boons via playing, but if chronicles themselves have access to these options it'd be impossible to stop fishing.

    This assumes a lot about how these items might be distributed on chronicles. It may be that some uncommon options are easily accessed on multiple chronicle sheets. I'd much prefer that than being offered the same +1 cloak of resistance on every chronicle, which was already always available. We have only a handful of scenarios out.

    Combine that with the achievement point system it may not be so difficult to get items you want. The difference is you'll earn them through your character's career.

    Rare items and features might be different and prone to chronicle fishing...but no more so than most of what happens with unique character options currently. Either that or there we just an awful lot of really lucky wizards who ran into Riddywhipple.

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    Neo2151 wrote:
    How do others feel?

    I feel like even with the "limited" options in the core rulebook, they have opened up and laid foundation for a huge design space. There are character concepts in these core rules I wouldn't have ever even considered in 1E and the majority of popular character concepts in 1E are supported baseline within their respective classes, at least insofar as they can be right now.

    I like the trade offs. It might be hard to give up some class features for others but that is mostly because I want both. I think it is only going to get better with time as more archetypes, feats, spells, amd equipment are released.

    I'm content to explore core character concepts I didn't in 1E for various reasons (e.g. no skills on a sorcerer or cleric, multiclassing casters, fighters at all) while I wait for new content to enable more outlandish ideas.

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    Temperans wrote:

    And the whole "just multiclass" defeats the entire point of removing feat taxes, multiclassing is the biggest feat tax in this edition where you either lose tons of feats or are forced to play a half-elf just to make a concept work.

    Making a trade-off isn't a feat tax. A feat tax is making you take Toughness before you can get a weapon or armor proficiency. It's unrelated.

    Scaling proficiencies are class features now. Multiclass archetypes are how you trade class features.

    No one is forcing you to do anything. If you're playing at home, talk to your GM about a homebrew solution. Bards have scaling light armor proficiency but know fewer spells than an occult sorcerer. Maybe your wizard multiclass fighter can drop arcane school or lose one spell per level for scaling armor proficiencies. This really isn't hard or as apocalyptic as people are making it out to be.

    You could multiclass with druid to pick up wildshape at 4 as a focus spell. At 8 you could pick up form mastery if you have sufficient strength. This would let you grab some animal combat forms a little earlier than Aerial form.

    The lack of low level transmutation I think is more an over correction from when everything was transmutation. It's a pretty easy fix as the spell lists expand with new books.


    Didn't see a thread for this so I figured I'd start one. I ran this at my lodge and overall thought it was a great scenario. Players really loved the cryptic hunter vibe.

    Couple of notes from my experience.

    100% print out the mosquito Witch doll art and use it liberally. I regularly moved it between party members. They'd throw it off the boat, into the fire, etc. and then sometime later when a PC retrieved an item I'd have in their pack. Players loved this and it helped set the tone.

    In Town:


    After seeing how Galia dealt with the mosquitos, they kept asking each NPC how they dealt with them. You may want to have a few precanned answers.

    My PCs really got infatuated with Tanner, probably because I overplayed the Android bit which stood out against every other NPC. I eventually had to shoo them away rather than spend too much time here.

    The Carraige:


    Narrating this was a bit tricky because it was hard to explain how some PCs had time to climb aboard while others had time to build barricades. We stuck to the mechanics which worked fine, but felt a little gamey as a result. Several casters also wanted to use magic and I would have been nice if future encounters like that offered some guidance on what could be substituted.

    The Forest:


    I liked the way this was set up but definitely read the sections here since it's easy for the party to end up missing one of these it they aren't thorough.

    My party had the magnetic rock from tanner and I let them make a DC 15 craft check to create a simple compass to act as a "landmark" for navigating to a disturbance in the woods.

    There was a bit of an inconsistency in the scenario with there being no one to heal Andor in town when the PCs meet a priest of Tsukiyo in town. The PCs immediately thought that they should bring him back to town and I had to sort of hand wave that they were pretty sure only their medical skills would suffice.

    Final Fights:


    Peaches fight was about as emotionally charged as you might expect. Definitely read all the attach and blood drain rules since there are a lot of triggers for various conditions depending on when things happen once a blood seeker is attached.

    Fight with the mites was fairly anticlimactic. It was a good challenge for a team of 6 level 1 PCs though.

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    One, as stated above.

    The first focus spell a player gets always grants a focus point regardless of what it says. Subsequent focus spells often grant an extra point but don't always do so, as is the case with wild morph and wild shape.

    I think in the case of Wild Druid, this is to give them options at level 1 to fight in an animal form or in a humanoid form with aspects without giving them twice the pool as others.

    Quandary wrote:
    I just don't think dedicating one's Signature Spells on primary basis of how many level versions they have is a wise strategy. Of course, some spells like Dispel Magic do basically the same thing at all levels but it's "power" (Counteract check) is based on Spell Level, so having it as Signature Spell means if you cast all your high level slots on something else you can still cast it with lower slot at slightly worse chances of success.

    100% this. A lot of spells also heighten at even or odd numbers only, so there's a lot of gaming you can do by ensuring they don't conflict. You also appear to be incentivized to move a lower level spell up to your highest slot so you can always downshift that spell (since you couldn't move it up in level it yet anyway). This frees up a lower level spell slot to pick up something new that doesn't heighten.

    It doesn't really solve your problem for wizards, but if you just wanted the arcane list and summon fiend, an arcane bloodline sorcerer (Imperial or Draconic) could pick up Crossblooded Evolution sorcerer feat at 8 to get a single spell from the divine list and then convert that spell known to Summon Fiend once you got 5th level spells. Arcane sorcerers also have the Arcane Evolution feat at 4th level, which gives your sorcerer a spellbook. If you really wanted to double-down, pick up a familiar at level 2 and claim you're a graduate student with a Familiar Thesis in the works.

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    At first blush it seemed like prepared was preferable to Wizard, but after trying to build out a sorcerer spell list or two level over level, I really like how signature spell interacts in spell selection. While most heightened spells just add damage, there are some that really change what the spell does (e.g. Invisibility at 2 vs. Invisibility at 4) so picking those is basically doubling or tripling the number of spell options you have "prepared" at any moment. It ends up leaving you with a more versatile spell kit than your true number of spells known would indicate.

    I think it's necessary to unlearn some habits that came from spell selection in PF1 to really see it though. My first instinct spell selections really fell apart when I started seeing what my signature spells could be at each level and what I got from them.

    Moment of Clarity as a first level barbarian feat makes it possible for Barbarian/casters to exist. It'll eat an extra action in combat, but you can reasonably pause to cast something if you need too. It opens up all kinds of options like Barbarian/Clerics or Barbarian/Wizards.

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    I'd argue that Vlorax is correct, but for the wrong reasons. The Druid dedication is pretty clear that you pick an order but gain no benefits from that order, which would include not getting 1 focus point out of the gate.

    The reason he's right that you'll be able to wildshape at 4, though, is in the rules on focus spells in the Magic chapter.

    Casting any of your focus spells costs you 1 Focus Point. You automatically gain a focus pool of 1 Focus Point the first time you gain an ability that gives you a focus spell.

    So in this case, the Druid dedication gives you the wild order.

    You could then take the wild shape druid feat at character level 4 since it is a level 1 druid feat. Since this is the first time you gain an ability that gives you a focus spell, you get the free point to use. The only way to extend that pool would be to acquire another ability which explicitly granted another focus point.

    At 8, you then grab Thousand Faces (for humanoid forms) or Form Control (for 1 hour duration wild shape).

    Edit: Notably, I don't think there's any way to get wild morph doing this path. If you chose Wild as your initial druid order with the druid dedication, you can't use Order Magic (4) to pick it up because it tells you to pick an order you selected with Order Explorer (2), and Order Explorer tells you to pick a different druid order than the one you selected. I think this is a feature, though, since it basically says a baseline wild druid can wild shape and morph on top of that form, whereas dabblers in wild shaping can only take basic forms.


    On 7/13, I received a shipping notice for my package (3208770) on order number 7936115. The tracking link with UPS Mail Innovations continues to not populate any information and gives an error and suggests I contact the shipper if it has been more than 72 hours. I understand this is not uncommon and may be out of the control of your team. I was wondering if it would be possible to get confirmation that the package is in transit as expected (the email said 4-8 days). Thank you in advance.


    Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:

    Option 3—Rotating Boon Trade-In: This model resembles the Boon Currency option. However, instead of being able to use a pile of boons to purchase a variety of benefits, the first year or two would have a few rotating second edition boons that one could secure by expending any one first edition boon of a similar style—most likely exchanging any race boon for an ancestry boon. This would let us keep any boon conversion limited but interesting. It seems to strike a respectable intersection between established players, newer folks, and staff resources—particularly if boons available in this way were eventually released through other channels that didn't require this exchange.

    Option 4—Boons for Benefits: This model also riffs on the Boon Currency option. However, instead of opening access to options that only established players can access, this allows players to expend boons in order to secure temporary/instantaneous benefits that could benefit any number of characters at the table. Conceptually, compare it to the Retail Incentive Program, where rewards focus more on giving everyone a little boost or averting a catastrophic stroke of bad luck. The venture-captain who pitched this variant referenced the benefits of breath of life at the cost of a first edition race boon, calling it "Life for a Life." This is a pretty charming approach because it allows players to carry over some benefits to the new edition, but it does so in a way that nobody's really holding exclusive options over newer participants.

    I like 3 and 4. I'm not someone sitting on an infinite stack of boons, but I definitely have some excess and would love to be able to toss them over.

    Boon trade ins should run in parallel to the first year or two of PF2. This will encourage some players to still GM at cons or locally in PF1 since that effort can still contribute back over to their PF2 character -- even if that is just to take advantage of the Boons for Benefits. I am a little worried that the rotating boon-trade in might discourage spending boons in the boons for benefits though, as players may hoard their misc. boons for future quarters. Maybe something like race boons for the rotating one and non-race boons for the boons for benefits (or vice versa).


    Option 3—Heightened GM Star Recharge: In this model, the Expanded Narrative opportunity continues but has some capacity for more recharging than normal. That might mean someone could instantly begin a new Expanded Narrative Chronicle sheet the moment she fills out the first one, not waiting for a new season. It might instead mean that there's a limit of one sheet per season, but the sheet grants more than one replay for each GM star. There are likely other variations on this approach.

    I like option 3. It keeps replay tied to GMing, which is something that will likely be harder and harder to encourage as we approach PF2. It also expands on an already known and understood system rather than incorporating new rules. I'd like to see something simple like 1 replay for every 5 scenarios GMed.

    If we do boost the recharges, I'd also add a rule that you can only replay a scenario you've GMed at least once. Should help catch some edge cases of exploitative behavior with increased replays.

    Simplest solution: Get a wand of magic missile. Use it during the low levels as a filler. Even 50 charges will likely last longer than you will need it. It will be a more consistent and meaningful contribution to damage than cantrips or rays or bows with your setup.

    More in depth solution: pick up Combat Advice at 3, Delay Augment Summon to 5, and spend your actions between spells buffing your allies' and your summons' attacks.

    Getting precise shot quickly is just going to delay your spell casting progression for fillers while your spells are still relatively few. I think you will ultimately regret it if uou do something drastic to get precise shot. It just won't hold up.

    Actually, wait no. You're reading bonus feats wrong.

    "Bonus Feats: At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level, a wizard gains a bonus feat. At each such opportunity, he can choose a metamagic feat, an item creation feat, or Spell Mastery. The wizard must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including caster level minimums. These bonus feats are in addition to the feats that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. The wizard is not limited to the categories of item creation feats, metamagic feats, or Spell Mastery when choosing those feats."

    "Those feats" refers to "the feats that a character of any class gets from advancing levels" from the previous sentence. It's clarifying that only the Wizard bonus feats are from the above categories. It's weirdly written, I'll grant you, but there'd be no point for any of the additional text at all in this ability if you read it the way you are.

    I admittedly missed the exemption in the Pact (Ex) power, though you did cut out a key clause: "A pact wizard whose alignment shifts away from the chosen outsider subtype, who grossly abuses his familiar or any outsider of the chosen subtype, or who commits egregious acts against the alignment of the patron loses all the benefits of this archetype (but keeps the additional opposition school) until he receives an atonement."

    You might not find it problematic for a lot of GM's, but being LN with a CG familiar might get a bit dicey if a GM is paying attention. It's in Paladin Code territory at that point. Just something to consider.

    And I'll also be damned at the wizard bonus feats. I played a wizard for 3 years and never noticed that last line. Definitely would have changed some choices I made.

    Regardless, I still think Pact Wizard just trades away a school for a bonus feat to only end up needing to use another to feat to buy back that school you lost. It's kind of a waste aside from fluff. I'm not arguing that Sacred Summons is perfect, but at least you'd be losing a school for 7-9 levels and getting some benefit from it. It's not like Pact Wizard gives you an Azata any sooner.

    If you're really set on Academae Graduate, an Emissary Familiar with the community domain gives you a 1/day remove fatigue and still sort of acts like a divine "pact."

    You can't have a Lyrakien Azata familiar and also worship Irori. Irori is LN and you'll need to be within one alignment step to mechanically worship and receive benefits. Lyrakien Azata are chaotic good. Their stat block calls out that they only serve chaotic good masters which overrides the more general Improved Familiar rule of within one step on each axis.

    It really wouldn't make much sense anyway.

    As for your main build -- I don't really understand why you're doing Pact Wizard as opposed to just Conjuration wizard. The bonus level 7 feat is hardly a big deal, you'd only lose Improved Initiative, which while great, isn't really an end-all-be-all. In contrast, you lose a whole school.

    The real strength of Pact Wizard is the aura class feature and sacred summons as a wizard bonus feat. You don't seem to be using that. It would give you access to a subset of standard action summons without the academae graduate feat and the hoops you're trying to jump through to deal with fatigue. Incidentally, Academae Graduate isn't a wizard bonus feat, so you coulnd't pick it up at 5 like you are anyway.

    If you're going to do Pact Wizard, I'd play to its strengths and shoot for Sacred Summons. If you want to go the Academae Graduate route, I'd just go regular conjurer and rework your feat selection a bit.

    Is Paladin a requirement? Instead of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, it might be easier just to find you a round peg?

    It seems to me you could probably reasonably recreate something Paladin-like without the Paladin Code.

    Cavalier, for instance, into Sacred Sentinel would make for a Torag based "Paladin" without being a Paladin. Order of the Staff would make his oath to defend and assist spell casters.

    There's probably half a dozen ways we could help you make something that gets the part of the Paladin this guy wants without the baggage.

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    markvs wrote:

    So a whole new edition to get rid of the gunslinger class. :(

    Sounds expensive for a "minor" change

    But think of the up side! We can finally kill all the ludicrously strong Desna-based things that have proliferated through 10 years.

    That's pretty much my benchmark for rolling into the new system -- "do I see Desna favoritism?"


    Pax Miles wrote:

    If this were a homebrew game, I'd talk to the GM about what I can reasonably expect. Or, the GM would just insert my favored enemy into the rotation just to make me feel included. Seems like a basic part of character creation.

    But for PFS, there's no guide (for rangers). I could pick a perfectly legal choice from the CRB and never get to face it. And that's not reasonable. If certain creature types are not found in PFS enemies, then PFS should really ban them as ranger favored enemies so as to avoid this issue.

    Classes that get feats they can't use are changed to either have new feats, or just not be able to take those class features. Why is this different?

    We just gave you the cliff's notes version. There's no player's guide because you can expect to encounter every single ranger favored enemy at some point in your career. This also isn't an AP where there's a defined ending. There are common themes, but some creature types become more or less prevalent depending on the season. Season 6 was constructs, Season 5 was demons, Season 8 was elementals, etc. But even within those themes, you can expect to fight plants, magical beasts, lawful outsiders etc.

    Asking for guidance was reasonable and most people here gave it to you to the best that's possible given there are hundreds of possible scenarios only a fraction of which this ranger you're making may play. Asking for leadership to ban specific favored enemies because they are uncommon right now isn't reasonable. Maybe you shouldn't play a ranger or pick archetype that swaps it out if this is bothering you that much.


    Many scenario descriptions do give hints on the kinds of things you can expect to encounter without spoiling encounters of the scenario itself. You can reasonably use those to steer yourself into predictable encounters if you really want to. I will say I've had some of the most fun when my characters are thrown well out of their element. My enchanter always seemed to end up in undead heavy scenarios; my psychic's nemesis has been plants. It's always an accident but it does make for interesting stories.

    Favored Enemy seems balanced largely by it not always being on. As a GM in a Giantslayer game, we joke that it's basically our Ranger's cheat code. So maybe just pick one you can expect to encounter and maybe some you can reasonably expect to encounter from time to time, even if not every scenario. That way you shouldn't be locked out, but also not feel pigeonholed into 1-2 options.

    My gut says it's probably something like:

    Good Chance of Encountering:
    Humanoid (Human)
    Outsider (Evil)

    Reasonable Chance of Encountering:
    Outsider (Chaotic)


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    Curaigh wrote:
    Hex magus replaces spell recall. Hex Arcana doesn't come online until level 12. IMHO it doesn't change parent feature gained 9 levels earlier.
    The FAQ wrote:
    However, if something alters the way the parent class feature works, such as a mime archetype that makes all bardic performances completely silent, with only visual components instead of auditory, you can’t take that archetype with an archetype that alters or replaces any of the sub-features. This even applies for something as small as adding 1 extra round of bardic performance each day, adding an additional bonus feat to the list of bonus feats you can select, or adding an additional class skill to the class.

    Hexcrafter definitely adds items to the list of of available Magus Arcana. It's not even in question. It adds all witch hexes to the list of of Arcana that can be taken. There is no way to read it as not altering the entire Magus Arcana class feature in light of the FAQ.

    Whether Bladebound is similarly as restrictive by taking away Familiar may be in question, but Hexcrafter is definitely not going to stack with either of the other two.


    Lau Bannenberg wrote:
    Wouldn't grouping it closer together lead to more confusion?

    Would it really, though? It's not like people don't already post in the PFS forums asking for advice or rules clarifications or vice versa. It's no less confusing than Starfinder scenarios in the GM Discussion forums under Organized Play.

    Categorization is inherently multi-dimensional. Here we have 'Regular, Homebrew, Organized Play' and minimally 'Pathfinder, Starfinder' on a separate axis. The best solution is one which supports natural pivots between the natural groupings that exist.

    I would absolutely consume a 'Pathfinder only view all the way down the Regular, Homebrew, Organized Play' axis. It is annoying right now that to even browse both I have to bounce back up to the top level and then back down or look at all 400 forums at the same time. I doubt I'm the only one.


    There really isn't any good reason* it couldn't be in both sections. I understand your point, HMM, but I also agree it'd be very nice to have this under the simple 'Pathfinder' forum headings. If it's not possible, then I suppose we have to pick one bad or the other. Neither is particularly ideal.

    *It's entirely possible the forum architecture doesn't support multiple entry points if the forum views are bound to underlying folder structure instead of just associated document collections displayed in logical formats.

    Name: Jayne
    Race: Elf
    Class: Alchemist
    Adventure: Tomb of the Frost Giant Queen
    Location: The Anteroom
    Cause of Death: Soul Eaten

    Play By Play:

    This was one of my favorite encounters to run - I really didn't expect it to go down this way. The party entered the the Anteroom with Darkvision, so both sides saw each other at the same time. Rimebeard rolled decently with initiative, hovering some distance off the ground, and used some of his soul energy to cast confusion on the party. 3 out of 5 PCs failed their rolls, and one of two animal companions. Jayne, a firebombing alchemist, was one to succumb. The party all rolled decently on their first confusion, either babbling or hitting themselves. The remaining party members swapped to secondary ranged weapons. No confusion death spirals started yet, but everyone was biting their nails since the two party members who could dispel were also confused.

    Round two, Rimebeard decided to hit them with confusion again, getting one of the remaining two party members and the last animal companion. At this point the entire party except the Cavalier was confused. Eventually, Jayne was forced to attack the nearest target, an animal companion. Jayne nearly murdered it with bombs and it severely weakened him.

    Rimebeard picked out Jayne as the most wounded and, desperate for soul energy, floated down to use Devour Soul. Jayne made his save, however, delaying Rimebeard on the ground an extra round allowing the Cavalier a round to engage (without his mount). Next round, Jayne was actually devoured and Rimebeard floated up, taking an AoO from the Cavalier, but fully charged with soul energy confident in his ability to finish the rest of the party from the air. Meanwhile the rest of the party is spiraling out of control.

    Thinking quickly, our Cavalier on his turn used Agrimmosh to enlarge as a swift action to get one last full attack on Rimebeard, killing him before he was able to move totally out of range and start using Vampiric Touches with Spectral Hand to finish the rest of the party. The confused party members went on another round killing each other before the Skald rolled act normally and burned Spell Kenning to cast Calm Emotions on the party, ending the encounter.

    Jayne died as he lived, wildly throwing bombs at targets.

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    The Deadly Courtesean Unchained Rogue can single class into Lion Blade. That almost seems intentional. You could even do something like Fighter, Swashbuckler, or some other full BAB class for one level and then 4 levels of Deadly Courtesean rogue for a pretty decent base.

    Human or Half Elf get you skill focus at level 1 to help mitigate the feat requirements. Unchained rogue effectively gives you weapon finesse and Dex to damage.

    VarisianViscount wrote:
    At 2nd level, an urban druid gains the lorekeeper ability, which grants new class skills. Does this count as altering class skills for the purpose of stacking archetypes? I'm asking since there's probably one or two more such archetypes (for other classes) out there and it could make or break a character concept or build.

    Yes, it alters class skills. An ability doesn't need to explicitly need to state it changes a class feature to change it. This is especialy true of older archetypes.


    John Compton wrote:
    We have a few in the works (Kingmaker and Seers of the Drowned City). Currently, the priorities have been outlining a big pile of scenarios, catching up on scenario outlines (got a lot of those coming up), the updated Guide, and catching up on Additional Resources.

    Just want to also echo that I'm very excited that Kingmaker is being sanctioned. Currently doing Giantslayer, but Kingmaker had been my number one pick before I realized it wasn't yet sanctioned.

    Sometimes the development team puts in language to future proof the abilities to account for possibilities in the future. For example, it's possible they introduce a hex in the future called 'Esoteric Lore' that lets the shaman add spells to their spell list. It might include language allowing it to be selected multiple times.

    So no, there's no reason to assume they editors missed anything. You can pick one witch hex at present.


    It's not entirely fair to compare Fey Thoughts to Skill Focus or Additional Traits (or skill focus for that matter). Traits that turn skills into class skills are often conflicting with one another within the same category. Several traits that make UMD a class skill, for instance, are magic traits. This precludes a player who takes that trait from also taking something like Pragmatic Activator (Int to UMD), Magical Lineage, or Magical Knack.

    Fey Thoughts, whether on a gnome or otherwise, bypasses those decisions and very easily allows a player fill class skill gaps for whatever class they happen to be. It effectively opens up their trait selection to that second tier of traits that more directly alter how their character plays; the non-class skill options.

    I'm not saying it's necessarily overpowered, but I think people are understating the inherent advantage the flexibility this trait offers for almost any build that can take it. It's not quite bonus feat territory, but it's close when you start factoring the options it frees you up to pursue. In short, it's not the fact that you get two class skills; its the fact that you can get any two class skills -- a feature otherwise reserved for both your starting traits.

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    I'd second Nethys. It's really hard to overlook the fact that Nethys embraces the duality of magic and your own backstory has the black/white split between the siblings. It'd be interesting if his sister also manifested sorcerous ability.

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    The other day at my lodge, someone pointed out that the Ricochet Toss feat works with improvised weapons and the Throw Anything feat. A monk of the empty hand can flurry with improvised weapons. It is therefore possible for a monk of the empty hand with the throw anything feat to pick up a chair and throw it something up to 5 range increments away (100 ft) three and have it immediately bounce back, three times in a single round. That's 600 feet in 6 seconds, or about 40 miles per hour.

    The same individual pointed out that at level 11, the same monk could also light the chair on fire before throwing. It's called putting them in the hot seat.

    There's nothing that says a fire creature has to be the only blood in your bloodline. Maybe your elemental ancestors did make a deal with a devil that corrupted their wishcraft. You don't need to be a direct descendant of a devil to have that bloodline.

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    PossibleCabbage wrote:
    I really wish we had a spirit swapping medium whose duration for spirits was measured in hours, rather than rounds.

    I could get behind that - or even one that worked in level + cha mod minutes per day or something.

    I really wish the existing medium had been implemented more like the Shaman, with the ability to select a primary spirit and a secondary spirit progressed as a slower rate (maybe medium level - 3). The natural conflicts between spirits would make that an interesting game. There's natural synergy between spirits like Champion and Guardian, less synergy between Archmage and Champion.

    Ultimately, the 1 spirit per day is what feels shallow to me and contributes to the feeling that you're basically a shadow of another class. I acknowledge that in a game with lots of downtime to take advantage of the swapping roles, this may change, but where I play adventures are usually measured in days and combat is expected each day to some extent. I don't really buy that each spirit (excepting possibly Champion) is really balanced to be a singleton.

    Yea, gotta say this feels more like the kind of curse for an NPC oracle guarding a particular location than anything. I guess technically your tree could be in the middle of nowhere and be relatively safe from harm unless your GM decided to have something randomly happen to it. But at that point, why? The only other way I can see this make sense would be if your campaign centers around a single location so you can plant your tree at that location - though it doesn't seem like you really interact with the tree at all. So I'm just not sure.

    That said, Feather Token - Tree is a relatively cheap way to get some solid oak trees out wherever you happen to be. Either to bond with if something does happen to your tree while you're away or to get some plants to use your other abilities. For instance, you can drop one outside a dungeon and then inside to create a waypoint system for Tree Stride.

    The more I've been thinking about it, the more I think that if the requirement is truly meant to be 'in-hand' as the Pathfinder's Focus trait specifies that this archetype is pretty much dead in the water. I'm almost hoping at this point that the omission of that line was intentional.

    Unlike the other bonded objects that require being in-hand (weapon, staff, or wand) there's no combat utility for a wayfinder. If you used the archetype's ability to commune with a Sword's Spirit, you couldn't even fight effectively with a one-handed weapon you learned to use since you'd have to hold the wayfinder in one hand, the weapon in the other, and have no hands left for somatic components. It's even worse if you intended to use a two-handed weapon since you couldn't drop a hand to cast and then resume holding the weapon in two hands. The Scrolls spirit would similarly be difficult because you'd never be able to use a metamagic rod while holding the wayfinder (similar issue of no hand for somatic components).

    I'm leaning more towards in the absence of clarification that My Life Is In Ruins might have called out the proper rules to fall back on. Since the wayfinder description and the inherited wayfinder class ability don't call out that it's "utilized in a particular way", it probably can be "carried by a character in a way similar to a potion or wand, [or] worn on some part of the body that doesn't correspond to an item slot." Seems like you could reasonably clip it to a belt, or wear it like a pocket watch?


    Honestly, whether it's too powerful or not really doesn't change the fact that for most non-human races it's either a definite grab or a reasonable grab given the trade-offs based on arguments made up thread. This means you could reasonably end up with 50% of non-human core race characters with Fey Thoughts. It's a bit like everyone and their sister's third Paladin in-law being a Fey Foundling. Or the Fate's Favoring every half-orc.

    The continued legality of the latter two options doesn't change the fact that leadership simply may not have wanted another such option in play.

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    The traditional argument on this goes back to Channel Energy. Life Oracles and Paladins can both channel energy, but the names of their abilities differ slightly. SKR made a post back in 2010 to this point on a similar post. I don't believe it's ever been codified, but the gist is that if abilities are functionally identical they should count as prerequisites despite the names not being identical.

    SKR's post on Life Oracles vs. Paladin vs. Cleric Channeling

    In this spirit, the difference between Exploiter Exploit and Arcanist Exploit is pretty much nothing and Exploiter Exploit probably should and could reasonably be interpreted as a valid prereq for extra exploit. In a home game this will ultimately come down to GM discretion but I don't think it's unreasonable to allow it especially if the character isn't already optimizing to high heaven in an unoptimized game and it isn't otherwise disruptive to the game in some way. I don't know if PFS has ever clarified one way or other other on this particular issue.

    Exploits are generally more powerful than most feats, but unlike a lot of feats they require points from an already limited pool. The exploiter doesn't get consume spells, so the more exploits you pick up the more difficult it will be to effectively use them all unless you're also picking up extra reservoir. I think it's reasonably balanced, but your mileage may vary.

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    How does a Namekeeper Shaman have to wield their inherited wayfinder? Can be be worn around the neck on a chain or on the wrist, held in hand, or just on the Shaman's person?

    The Namekeeper Shaman replaces their spirit familiar with a bonded wayfinder which functions as a wizard's bonded item but for shaman spells. This is fine except that a wayfinder is a slotless magic item, which has no associated rules text in the wizard bonded item rules.

    Inherited Wayfinder (Su) wrote:

    A name-keeper forms a powerful bond with a damaged wayfinder inherited from another. It functions for her alone. This functions as a wizard’s bonded object except it can be used to cast shaman spells (instead of wizard spells).

    This ability replaces spirit animal.

    Wizard Bonded Item wrote:
    Wizards who select a bonded object begin play with one at no cost. Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. These objects are always masterwork quality. Weapons acquired at 1st level are not made of any special material. If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be held in one hand. If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell’s level. If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly.

    Slotless magic items aren't covered by categories presented in the base rules. The implied intent seems to be that it needs to be "equipped," but this is also the only example of an alternate bonded object I can find that doesn't specify how it needs to be used. This could be an intentional omission, or oversight, so I figured I'd see how most people would rule as I cannot ask a single GM where I play.

    Here are the alternate bonded items I could find for comparison:


    Bonded Mask - Arcane Discovery wrote:
    Your devotion to the Forgotten Pharaoh enables you to select a mask-typically an Osirian funerary mask-as your bonded item. The mask must be worn to have effect, and occupies the head slot. In addition, the mask shields you from notice. While wearing your bonded mask, efforts to use the Diplomacy skill to gather information about you take a -1 penalty, and you gain a +1 competence bonus on all saving throws against scrying and mind-reading effects that allow saving throws.
    Bonded Mask - Halycon Druid Archetype wrote:

    Bonded Mask (Su): A halcyon druid forms a powerful bond with a mask, which functions identically to a wizard’s bonded object except that it can be used to cast druid spells (including those gained from class abilities) instead of wizard spells. A bonded mask must be worn to have an effect, and it occupies the head slot. A halcyon druid can enhance her mask with abilities appropriate for a head slot item, and can designate an existing head slot item as her bonded mask (but only if it covers her face).

    This ability replaces nature bond.

    Ioun Bond - Arcane Discovery wrote:
    You can form an arcane bond with an ioun stone. If you choose this arcane discovery at 1st level, you gain a dull gray ioun stone as a bonded object at no cost. A bonded ioun stone must be orbiting your head to have effect. At 12th level, you can turn a bonded dull gray ioun stone into another kind of ioun stone as if you possessed the Craft Wondrous Item feat; if you die or replace a bonded ioun stone that has been transformed in this way, the stone reverts to a dull gray ioun stone.
    Runic Focus - Runesage Archetype wrote:

    Runic Focus (Su): A runesage can use her knowledge of runes to create a runic focus, a small, semiprecious stone engraved with Thassilonian runes that she manipulates to alter her spellcasting abilities. In function, a runic focus behaves like an ioun stone. To activate a runic focus, the runesage must meditate on it as she prepares her spells. Following spell preparation, she tosses the gemstone into the air, after which it orbits around her head. A runic focus remains in orbit until the next time the runesage prepares her spells. A runic focus automatically functions as a runesage’s bonded object.

    A runic focus has an AC of 24, 10 hit points, and hardness 5, as per an ioun stone. While the first runic focus a runesage creates is free, replacement runic foci can be created using the standard rules for replacing a bonded object for a wizard’s arcane bond.[...]
    Pathfinder's Focus - Trait wrote:

    Benefit: You can select a magnetic compass for your arcane bond class feature; this compass is non-magical, but you can later spend 250 gp to upgrade it into a wayfinder.

    Choosing this trait allows you to upgrade this wayfinder to a variant or unique wayfinder per the normal rules for improving magic items. A bonded wayfinder must be held in your hand to grant the benefits of being a bonded object.

    Pathfinder's Focus is notable because it's the closest comparison to the Inherited Wayfinder, but at least one person I've asked made the argument that since Inherited Wayfinder doesn't include the same line as the Pathfinder Focus, that it isn't subject to the same rules. Same individual argues that it's also a potential difference between a trait and a class ability similar to how the Runic Focus is similar to, but different than, Ioun Bond.

    Interested to hear what others think. If you do think it needs to be held in hand (not wielded since you can't wield a slotless item), what action would be appropriate to put it in hand if worn on a chain on the wrist? The implications are significant if the shaman planned to use a two-handed weapon or employ some other strategy that wouldn't allow easy access to the Wayfinder.


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    ScrollMasterRob wrote:
    I just want to see fair and balanced reviews posted. Too Many 5 star reviews from GMs that TPK.

    No, you want people to agree with you because you're angry. That's not how this works.

    My party all died but one, on the final fight but succeeded because the Sages and that one player finished off the battle (they'd freed every one of them). 2 out of 6 players were infected with the disease inmmediately, 1 was infected while trying to make the cure (improper handling). They made enough cures to get everyone and then some but didn't even take them before the final fight -- I still don't know why they didn't, but they didn't. They also took some negative levels from the machine. They also triggered two mishaps during the ritual. I had them each roll one at a time if they were assisting so they could see the impact of their actions if they failed. They fell for everything to some degree and still managed to pull it out and have a good time. They used consumables found in the scenario and class abilities to handle the negative levels.

    To me it sounds like you didn't really read how the scenario works. The disease isn't auto-applied every time someone casts. Nor are negative levels. The incurable version of the disease has a lower save as a result of the template. I mean, sure, you could have a string of bad luck, and things could cascade, but it really isn't as bad as you think it is.

    This was a great scenario. And now I'm going to add 5 stars to it because of your comment.


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    I don't understand why you're on a crusade here. This scenario has unique mechanics. This scenario introduces unique challenges for casters. Obviously people are doing it and enjoying it. You obviously didn't and have said it. Sorry.

    But at some point, the GM has to take over and fill in gaps in the scenario. That's how they work. Most of us seem to have managed that. So it's probably okay to move on now with your warnings / criticism logged in the record.

    Xexyz wrote:
    Via the Spirit Talker feat I have a witch that can use it to gain the Arcane Enlightenment shaman hex and effectively get 4 wizard/sorcerer spells on her list. Since the biggest weakness of the witch spell list IMO is the lack of defensive spells I was looking for spells that fit the bill. Time Stop, Mirror Images, and Displacement seem to be obvious choices, and Shield could also be a choice. The witch in question can cast 9th level spells, so the entire wiz/sor spell list is up for consideration.

    This doesn't really work as well as you might think. Arcane Enlightment does add the spells to the list, but the witch would still have to prepare them. Spirit Talker only lasts an hour, so you would have to commune for 10 minutes to add the spells to your list for an hour, and then subsequently prepare those spells in open slots which also takes an hour. The hex goes away, so you prepared spells you can no longer cast because they're back off your list.

    Unless the bloodline power specifically states otherwise, it is only manifested during the rage itself (or in your case the Mystic Focus).

    On the question of Dirty Fighting and Toppling Magic missile, no it won't work. Toppling Magic Missiles never gain the benefit of +2 from flanking. Dirty Fighting only increases that bonus if it's present. It's not a flat +2/4 to all trip checks.

    Marcus Steelfeather wrote:

    Doing a quick necro here.

    Does the Blood Arcanist qualify for trading away his 1st level power for a familiar?

    The Blood Arcanist is more like Eldritch heritage. They specifically get the bloodline powers and arcana and not the other things associated with a full bloodline. As a result, I'm inclined to say no they can't. But it also seems like a perfectly reasonable thing for a GM to allow if they wanted too, especially since Familiar is an exploit which would otherwise be available in the first level exploit slot.

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