| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
For me, it's a matter of ...
1. I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around some of the concepts.
2. I think Dreamscarred Press did a MUCH better job at the 'mental powers' thing and far prefer to use it for psychic phenomena.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
My reasons:
1) Far too steep a learning curve for what you get. All of the classes quite deliberately use new and different mechanics that take time to learn and have different balance points. Lots and lots of work for the GM
2) Balance issues. Many of the classes are somewhere between very powerful and overpowered.
3) Arbitrarily change of the constraints on magic. One more thing for the GM to have to worry about when balancing encounters and changing existing material
4) Thematically the book suddenly changes the entire world. Suddenly, magic comes in 3 forms and not 2. Suddenly undead are no longer automatically evil. etc.
5) (PFS only) Paizo rammed this down our throats a LOT when the book came out. Forcing considerable extra preparation time for gains that were sometimes negative, mostly tiny, and sometimes may have gotten almost up to noticeable. Way, way, way overused in PFS scenarios
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
I don't hate it at all. I find some of the classes a bit confusing to use, especially the Kineticist. I can't wrap my head about that one at all. Of all the classes, the Psychic is my favorite.
And the book overall slots in perfectly with the history of my homebrew world. In its past it was ruled by despotic race of psionic humans. The psychic magic (in my setting) was developed as a way to combat this. It's a perfect fit for my game.
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
The Psychic classes are among my most favorite, and they're arguably under-powered, due to the Thought components increasing Concentration checks, and the Emotion components shutting down casting with a Shaken condition. The fact that their spells are all effectively "stilled" and "silenced" comes up way less often than the above hindrances, imo. I'm also a huge fan of the flavor of the classes.
To be fair, I don't know a darn thing about Dreamscarred Press' classes and rules. Still, I can't think of a reason someone would ban Occult Adventures classes, short of them just being unfamiliar with the mechanics.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm not deep into Dreamscarred Press' version, but they build on 3.5 psionics, which was a lot more "space gods/new wave" versus the "19C Occultism" thing that Paizo's psychic magic is.
Personally, I prefer the occult angle, but it is a little hard to see how it would compete against arcane magic - it is good for screwing with people's heads and some divination, but arcane magic beats it at basically everything else, and divine magic beats it at divination. So the "subtle and mysterious" angle needs to be a focus to really make them worthwhile.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
The three top reasons I'd expect occult classes to be banned from a game are:
1. They don't fit the theme of the campaign--the campaign isn't occult-centered or otherwise has a mood or feel that would be undermined by inclusion of occult classes.
2. The underlying premises (mindscapes, phantoms, etc.) don't exist in the setting. (See also: modern firearms, androids.)
3. The GM doesn't want to have to learn a bunch of new rules to support them.
I wouldn't expect "because they're too strong" to be a reason to ban them, but it's probably been done.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm always surprised by people saying "too steep a learning curve" or "confusing" because the criticism of Occult Adventures that I most agree with is that too much of the stuff is just a new coat of paint on an old thing.
Like the Psychic and Spiritualist are literally just the Sorcerer and the Summoner with a few tweaks, anybody who understands the latter gets the former. Psychic Spellcasting is just arcane spellcasting, except you're concerned about being distracted or being in the wrong mindset instead of being bound and gagged.
Like I've spent more time trying to wrap my head around how the Shifter works than I did with anything in OA. The only really novel things in OA are the Occultist having to track multiple metacurrencies, and the Kineticist having a metacurrency that counts up instead of down. If anything Occult Adventures would have been better had it been less familiar.
I'm also sort of surprised anybody saying that the OA classes are "overpowered", if anything they're better balanced than the core rulebook classes, IMO.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
^The Sorcerer (and to a lesser extent the Summoner) seem more cleanly compartmentalized into modules that you can deal with as you need. This doesn't mean that the Sorcerer and Summoner don't have some serious needs for rebalancing and revision(*) -- just that they (especially the Sorcerer) are a LOT easier to read through and understand. In contrast, when reading the Occult classes, I feel like I can't start using them until I've gotten my full certification in Pathfinder Occultism.(**) (Before the Occult classes, I would say that Magus and Shaman had this problem the most, with this problem being obvious for Shaman and insidious for Magus, the latter having basic and early-appearing abilities that it's real easy to think you understand when you actually don't.)
(*)For the Sorcerer, mainly clean up the extremely uneven quality of the Bloodlines and the terrible organization of the Wildblooded Bloodlines (at least each Wildblooded Bloodline has a line pointing back to the original Bloodline, but I know of know way to figure out what Wildblooded Bloodlines are available for any given Bloodline), and treating Wildblooded Bloodlines (other than Sage and Empyreal) as archetypes is an unnecessary complication. For the Summoner, bring back some of the design freedom of the original Summoner while keeping balance changes of the Unchained Summoner -- basically need something in between.
(**)Edit: Case in point.
* * * * * * * *
Oh, and while I'm at it: WHERE'S OUR HARROWED MEDIUM!?
Speaking as a GM who has a player who regularly uses Occult classes, they're definitely not something you're likely to pick up quickly.
There's plenty of temptation to just say 'nope, not gonna use this' and avoid yourself a heap of extra work shoehorning these special snowflake classes into your world.
Saying there's no psychic powers in your campaign is like saying there's no gnomes in your campaign. The game will still be playable, and might even be improved by the removal.
Another thing is (and I really like the Occult Adventures), I don't think that there aren't a lot of Paizo-specific modules/scenarios/Adventure Paths that take advantage of those rules. As a GM, I'd be fine running an occult story, but all of the APs I own came out before those rules and don't take advantage of them. And they are rules that benefit from adventures specifically tailored to them.
For example, I had a player take a level of spiritualist and select the detect psychic significance cantrip. The AP we were playing didn't have any information about that and it would have required me going through and adding in psychic significance to items throughout the campaign. Things were already time-consuming/work-intensive enough without that little thing. So I asked the player to select a different cantrip.
Without spoilers, does anyone know if any of the post-OA APs include opportunities to use the occult rules? A simple yes or no is all I'm asking, no details please (I still want to play instead of GMing some day...)
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Strange Aeons is heavily Occult Adventures influenced, I highly, highly recommend it.
Same with Ruins Of Azlant.
Also, Hell's Rebels has some occult influences and Hell's Vengeance uses a little bit.
So yes, every AP since uses at least some of the occult stuff.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Thanks! I really want to play in Strange Aeons, but I'm the only GM in my group. *shakes tiny fist in impotent fury*
Ruins of Azlant maybe?
I'll check that out. I do have one player whose eyes lit up at the word Azlant...
Curse Of The Crimson Throne hardcover also has some occult influences.
What do you mean psychic stuff in Ruins of Azlant? Total nonsense! Like those stories you keep making up about giant fish monsters controlling your mind... bosh...
*eyes dart nervously*
|
Contributor
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Without spoilers, does anyone know if any of the post-OA APs include opportunities to use the occult rules? A simple yes or no is all I'm asking, no details please (I still want to play instead of GMing some day...)
Amusingly, one of the pre-OA Paths now does. The Curse of the Crimson Throne hardcover does include specific opportunities to use certain occult rules, as well as addressing certain occult interactions with the Path's events.
The others are probably better judges of the more recent Adventure Path material. ^_^
|
I actually don't hate them at all. But then again, I'm a rules lawyer from way back, so I love the challenge of wrapping my mind around new concepts. I love the flavor of the classes, since to me they feel a lot more distinct than 3.5 psionics ever did.
However, I can see why people might find the Kineticist and Occultist confusing on first read-through. Even I had to re-read the occultist entry like 3 times before I even had a baseline understanding of the class. This is mainly because they seem to have turned a single class into an update of 3.5 Incarnum rules. Buuuuuut, again, those are two classes. Kineticist wasn't even that hard to understand. Hard to balance if you're a powergamer, sure (because managing burn is harder to math than most class mechanics).
The Psychic is pretty straightforward, and the Spiritualist is a more balanced Summoner who has a ghost best friend, so I dig that. The Medium is PF's answer to one of my favorite 3.5 classes (the Binder) so I'm always going to be down with that. And the Mesmerist is just neat.
I legitimately don't understand the hate for Occult, except in theory. I guess people don't like the flavor also? Okay, fair, YMMV, but I don't see it myself.
One thing some GM's might not realize is that plenty of D&D and by extension Pathfinder's fantasy utilizes a lot of the occult without necessarily tying it to psyhic powers (and frankly, Paizo fitting all the Occult classes into one spellcasting category labelled 'psychic' might have hurt it somewhat, although entirely for the sake of getting people to stop playing the same boring setting archetypes over and over).
While that is the magical power of most of the occult classes, the ideas of contacting and channeling spirits, harnessing the elements through rigorous training and drawing the spiritual significance of ancient artifacts to fuel your own powers are actually very old fantasy tropes and we already have content for this, though tied into the arbitrary and meaningless definitions of 'arcane' and 'divine' in Pathfinder. The differences between a witch and an occultist are academic at best flavour-wise (and mechanics-wise), and have very real overlap, both frequently consorting with other entities and power sources to their own benefit.
As another example. Occult rituals are so ingrained into D&D and Pathfinder, your typical adventure will often run across one at some point that the heroes need to stop before some terrible catastrophe. You just have rules for that now (not psychic, just rules), that your players can access as well.
There are more things in Occult Adventures than just the psychic classes, and all of it can and probably already IS being used in your adventures. It's just most GMs don't like to admit that there is crossover or that D&D has, long ago, already taken most of these concepts and reimagined them to fit its own concepts and aesthetics (you have mindreading, mind control, telekinetic powers, haunting spirits and ghosts, occult rituals, and consorting with the transmundane ALREADY in D&D as arcane and divine powers, if you had missed that bit and still on the ropes about psychic spellcasters).
Most of the Occult stuff takes the ideas back to their root conceptualizations. You can do a lot to improve your game world by utilizing it and stripping away the set dressings that have happened to the concepts when they were added to D&D to fit its specific fantasy tropes. Frankly, most peoples conceptualization of what those fantasy tropes are don't actually fit what D&D and Pathfinder actually is. Often monk is overlooked for some reason despite being conceptually against theme as much as what the occult classes would be to those concepts. And the game has a long standing tradition of genre-mixing already that works in its favour.
Like there are subtle differences between 3.5 and Pathfinder you only notice after a while, there are differences between the psychic classes and their arcane look-alikes.
This is most distinctive with the Spiritualist. Yes, the phantom looks like an eidolon, but its role is completely different. An eidolon is a melee monster capable of holding a front-rank role. The phantom is a subtle debuffer that disconcerts enemies by its mere presence and delivers spells. It is not a good combatant, but it can soak attacks if enemies are foolish enough to attack it.
Likewise, the occultist is a bit like the magus or alchemist, but much more focused on self-buffs than on offensive spellcasting. It also has object reading at will, making it better at investigation that most investigators. Overall, I think investigator is its closest non-occult match.
The psychic is indeed a psychic sorcerer, but for 9-level casters, the difference in spell lists should be telling. This is also where the differences between arcane and psychic magic should be most visible.
I can't really figure the medium. It is touted as a replacement for whatever class the party is presently lacking, but that is to overestimate its versatility - it doesn't even gain trapfinding, and the other roles are similarly (if not as badly) lacking. It has some nice utility of its own, like internalizing haunts, but these are conditional at best.
The kineticist... Not really seen enough of it to know if it works. I know it is very un-pedagogically written, and I like the concept behind it, but that's about it.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I can't really figure the medium. It is touted as a replacement for whatever class the party is presently lacking, but that is to overestimate its versatility - it doesn't even gain trapfinding, and the other roles are similarly (if not as badly) lacking. It has some nice utility of its own, like internalizing haunts, but these are conditional at best.
My theory on the Medium has been that it is a class that shines more at lower power levels. They can't match a specialist on a 20 point buy, but in a game with a 5 point buy, their rolling static bonuses would look really good.
So I'm playing one in a game where we had rolled stats (*shudder*) and my rolls were: 10, 10, 11, 11, 12, 15. So far, this seems like the right choice.
In some ways it plays like a Vigilante, only moreso. I have my loadout for social encounters and investigations in town (Trickster) and a couple to choose from while adventuring (Champion, Guardian, or Hierophant). I haven't tried Archmage yet, and Marshal hasn't been very useful at low levels. But the key really seems to be that you need to be able to scout out the situation a day ahead, so that you have a pretty good idea of what you're getting into. Don't think of it a Medium as being able to substitute for the *class* you don't have, think of it as being able to substitute for the skill or spell you don't have.
The biggest problem seems to be equipment related. I carry two weapons I can only use as a Champion, a shield I can only use as a Guardian, and wands and scrolls that need UMD unless I'm accessing the right spirit.
Hierophant, btw, works really well as a secondary divine caster -- because the seance boon increases the healing done by everyone in the party, it's been most effective boosting our primary healer, and then I take buffs with my slots, freeing the cleric up from needing to use their slots for them. (Archmage would probably work the same way if we had an arcane prep caster, but since we have a sorceror their spells are already locked in.)
The real fun with Trickster has been that any time we need to infiltrate somewhere, I can pick up the appropriate Profession skill to get hired on. As a Charisma-based character, the Medium ends up a pretty nice spy.
EDIT: I would never even attempt a medium without Herolab, though. Changing spirits means recalculating *everything* and the only other way to go would be to have six character sheets.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Can agree with others that Occult is too confusing and adds an entire level of pointless convolution to already existing mechanics in an attempt to make Psionics "different".
Sure, some can say the above is technically mutually exclusive, but short of basic Kineticist knowledge and the general rules of Psychic spellcasting, most everything about the book makes me scratch my head and question the Point of reading and/or learning the rules of the book.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I mean, people say the Occultist is the most complicated class in the book, but here's a capsule explanation of the Occultist-
The Occultist is a mage-knight sort of character- you have martial weapon and medium armor proficiency and you are a psychic caster so that you do not care about arcane spell failure or having your hands full. Like all psychic spellcasters you are a spontaneous caster.
To balance out the above, you are limited in the spells you can cast via "implements"- the fluff of the class is that you channel your spellcasting through mystic gewgaws. Each implement corresponds to a specific school of magic, and each implement gives you one spell per spell-level from that school of magic. You can double-up if you want extra spells from a specific school, but your spell list is such that you usually don't want to do this so it's fair to think of them as a "Conjuration Implement" and a "Divination Implement" that unlock that school of magic for you.
Like Grit, Arcane Pool, or Ki the Occultist has a metacurrency- Mental Focus. How Mental Focus works differently than the above is that mental focus doesn't really do anything until you invest it into one of your implements. Mental focus once invested in an implement has two functions- the first is that it activates a passive buff called a "resonant power" specific to the type of implement whose power scales to how many points you put in it during breakfast and your level; these don't get weaker as you spend points, but turn off when the implement is out of power (similar to how some deeds only function when you have >0 grit/panache.) The second is that mental focus inside of an implement can be spent to use SLAs called "focus powers". You get one focus power built into each implement, and you can select others every other level and with the "extra focus power" feat. Focus powers are specific to implements (so the one that lets you fly works through the transmutation implement, not the necromancy implement) but otherwise these are just like the magus arcana where you spend a kind of action specified by the arcana and a point of arcane pool to get an effect, except that instead of having one pool of metacurrency, you have one pool for each of your implements. This requires planning, but not really more planning than "preparing spells" which the Magus has to do but you don't.
Everything beyond the above isn't important for understanding the class, just specific build considerations. All the above rules referenced are simpler than the polymorph rules which the Shifter, ostensibly an "entry-level" class reference heavily.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's a good book though. adds lot to the game and the classes are generally more balanced than what the CRB is offering.
If a GM doesn't want to invest the time to learn it, well, their game is the worse for it.
I don't know about these "people" who don't like it, but it's not my group. I think we've had at least one psychic character (mesmerist, kineticist, mindblade magus, etc.) in our games almost continuously for the past two years. If we ever play Strange Aeons, I'm likely to favor an Occultist, myself.
Also, the talismans (life's breath, warrior's courage, etc.) have been a staple magic item for our group for a while, so we do get some use out of the magic chapter, too.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
One way to think of it is that Pathfinder is like an incredibly well-stocked kitchen, and all of the different rules books and supplements are ingredients.
Not every ingredient goes in every recipe. Conversely, not every recipe benefits from tasting like every flavor. And not every person is going to agree on whether or not something belongs in a dish.
Occult Adventures (and its kin-products) lends itself well to a specific set of recipes, similar to how different cuisines have different key ingredients. That's not to say that a good cook couldn't mix in surprising combinations in unexpected ways, just that most dishes made with the Occult set of ingredients are going to be of a specific cuisine.
Now admittedly, it can be disappointing if you want to, say, try out cardamom-infused rice, and your friends keep insisting on having pizza every night. But that's just the way the social world works--sometimes you can't find people who like the things you really like.
It's just an analogy, take it or leave it. I know there are those who see the entire rule set as meant to harmonize in flavor, but I haven't found that to be the case. Nor do I think of that as a flaw in Pathfinder--rather, I celebrate the system's incommensureable diversities.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
For me the problems come down to setting. My games are sword and sorcery fantasy. While not every wizard wears a pointy hat and not every halfling is a rogue on a quest to destroy the one true ring, my settings are still somewhat steriotypical fantasy. That means, first and foremost, medieval Europe inspired with a smattering of other influences. These classes don't feel right for that, they seem like they were torn from the Houdini era and the whole spiritualist movement. It's not that there's anything technically wrong with that but for me it just doesn't jive.
That said, in such a setting if you want to play a magical man wbo controls minds or manipulates elemental energy, there are a few classes that do that. Wizard, witch, etx. Adding a whole new system of magic just for "psychics" seems convoluted and almost anachronistic. After all, in my mind psychic = science fiction or futuristic fantasy like star wars or warhammer.
Compounding my problems with these setting innapropriate and technically conplex new classez is how they're beginning to influence the rest of the game via archetypes. I've seen many archetypes that looked cool until I realized they referenced a complex and exotic rule systwm I simply don't want to learn and incorporate.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
@ PossibleCabbage: I only barely understood the writeup you gave, and quite frankly it sounds even more convoluted than simply playing a Magus, which you likened it to in terms of complicatedness at the end of the explanation.
So, while I might have a better understanding of that class now thanks to you, the factor I need someone to effectively translate the class, and to find out I can basically play a Magus and do mostly identical things without needless complication really only supports my position of them making things pointlessly convoluted in an attempt to show that Psionics are "different".
Regardless, I appreciate the clarification.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm pretty sure that the biggest real world influence for Occult Adventures was Victorian era Spiritualism, so it's not really any more of an anachronism in your fantasy than "Revolvers" or anything Lovecraftian.
Which is fine, if you don't want to have those things in your game, but it's weird to me if you want to have a game where you can shoot a Mi-Go with your revolver, but the mesmerist is right out.
To be fair to Lovecraft+Fantasy, we should all remember that the Mythos existed in the same continuum as Conan the Barbarian so that at least isn't a huge stretch.
But I mean, we can take the stuff that Lovecraft wrote and work backwards to put those things in an earlier context because it makes sense that these things have been there all along, even though the original stories were set around Lovecraft's time.
But at the same time something like "Contacting spirits with a seance" and "Object Reading" and the like aren't exactly things that required the technology of the 1850s or thereabouts to work, if you believe you can hypnotize someone with the tone of your voice and a shiny object on a chain... well, those things have been possible for a long time too, so it's just as easy to put those things in an earlier context IMO.
-
Regarding complexity of the occult classes, I think one of the things going on is that because various options throughout the game have prerequisites, we're sort of trained to start characters by looking at when they "turn on" so we start at level 7 or so with all the stuff we want, then look backwards. All of the Occult classes are pretty tricky when you're looking at the endpoint (well, not the Psychic), but are pretty easy from the ground up.
Like a level 1 Occultist makes two choices of implements (out of 7), and one focus power (out of the six or so that belong to either of your implements and aren't level gated), then you divide your mental focus between two things. At level 2, you select a 3rd implement and start dividing your focus three ways. At level 3, you gain a 2nd focus power. All the rest of your choices are things common to other classes (feats, spells known, etc.)
The Kineticist is even simpler- At level 1 you choose an element, a blast (if there are two for your element), and an infusion that goes with your blast. At level 2 you choose a utility power that goes with your element. At level 3 you choose another infusion.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm pretty sure that the biggest real world influence for Occult Adventures was Victorian era Spiritualism, so it's not really any more of an anachronism in your fantasy than "Revolvers" or anything Lovecraftian.
Which is fine, if you don't want to have those things in your game, but it's weird to me if you want to have a game where you can shoot a Mi-Go with your revolver, but the mesmerist is right out.
Modern firearms are probably banned more than occult classes. They're at least in the same category of "better ask the GM first".
@ PossibleCabbage: I only barely understood the writeup you gave, and quite frankly it sounds even more convoluted than simply playing a Magus, which you likened it to in terms of complicatedness at the end of the explanation.
I'm right there with you. For the longest time my brain shut off, in self defense, when I tried to digest these classes.
I've gotten to the point where after a few dozen reads, I could play an Occultist if forced at gunpoint, I don't know that I'd enjoy it. Maybe a Silksworn, but then it's not psychic but arcane.
Medium still seems too much, with having to figure out several different classes AND have to refigure your character each time... No thanks.
The only Spiritualist that interest me are the ones that DON'T have a phantom.
The sorcerer.. sorry, Psychic is fine as it truly isn't covering any new ground past psychic components.
Kineticist could be fine IF I didn't loathe burn with every fiber of my being...
Mesmerist: I didn't like it at first but I've grown to like it. It's niche but one I can work with. Psychic casting, the ability to self buff damage and debuff enemies. It even has a built in way you can bypass mindlessness for mind affecting effects. Cha to will saves!!! Tricks are just the icing on the cake IMO. Free 10' step, False Flanker, cha bonus on skills, auto escape artist, temp hp, ect.
For a bit of perspective to my earlier comments: I really, really like the flavor of Occult Adventures and am eager to try out some of the classes. I wouldn't mind them in the vast majority of my games. But I can see why someone might not want them in theirs.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Either I’m having massive Deja vu or this thread already happened like a few months ago?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Either I’m having massive Deja vu or this thread already happened like a few months ago?Opening post is October 8.
But it had a couple of hundred posts.
So, while I might have a better understanding of that class now thanks to you, the factor I need someone to effectively translate the class, and to find out I can basically play a Magus and do mostly identical things without needless complication really only supports my position of them making things pointlessly convoluted in an attempt to show that Psionics are "different".
I feel like the Magus and the Occultist are similar in concept, but not in how they actually feel to play. To wit, the magus is one-handed melee fighter who doesn't get heavier armor until later in the game, while the Occultist is someone who can cast equally well in any armor and can use their hands however they like so any combat style you can do with the default number of feats (reach, archery, TWF, whatever) is valid. The Magus generally wants to get up close and cast, so they can use spellstrike, but the Occultist would prefer to buff then move in or cast control/support spells (you get etheric shards). The Magus is the best at converting spells to damage, but the Occultist is kind of wretched at it (except Etheric Shards).
Of all the 6/9 casters, the Occultist probably has the most "adventuring stamina" that is, they run out of stuff that makes them effective well after their contemporaries do. Think of the Occultist as the tankiest of the 6/9 casters, you get the fewest spells known but you have some hum dingers on your spell list.
Also, a lot of classes get half class level as a bonus to a skill, but yours here is UMD...
But it had a couple of hundred posts.Either I’m having massive Deja vu or this thread already happened like a few months ago?Opening post is October 8.
Yeah this is what I remember ??
Think of the Occultist as the tankiest of the 6/9 casters, you get the fewest spells known but you have some hum dingers on your spell list.Also, a lot of classes get half class level as a bonus to a skill, but yours here is UMD...
They get more spells known than any other 6/9 spontaneous caster, 1 per spell level per implement, 49 including cantrips.
Silksworn gets 9 Implimemts so 63. Even sorcs only get 43(34 excluding cantrips) other 6/9 spont casters get 40 (34 excluding cantrips)
With heavy investment in the the human FCB you can have more than the normal Occultist, but not the Silksworn, unless you’re a Sorc with every FCB invested, which adds up to the same amount, but no-one ever does that.
Kineticist- This is my favorite class.
Mesmerist- Interesting anti-bard debuffing class with gaze attack.
Medium- This one is just a little too complex for me.
Occultist- Interesting concept but not my play style.
Psychic- Not as cool as the sorcerer or oracle but still fun and interesting.
Spiritualist- Second favorite class from the book.
I really love Occult Adventures and wish we would get another hardcover book as fun and as this one.
|
@ PossibleCabbage: I only barely understood the writeup you gave, and quite frankly it sounds even more convoluted than simply playing a Magus, which you likened it to in terms of complicatedness at the end of the explanation.
So, while I might have a better understanding of that class now thanks to you, the factor I need someone to effectively translate the class, and to find out I can basically play a Magus and do mostly identical things without needless complication really only supports my position of them making things pointlessly convoluted in an attempt to show that Psionics are "different".
Regardless, I appreciate the clarification.
there quite different from magus and there not particularly complicated.
what they are is imho pretty unique which i feel makes them a great addition to pathfinder.
| 9 people marked this as a favorite. |
There's something else about the medium that no one ever seems to bring up, and that is that if you channel the Marshal spirit and are 2nd level or higher, you can share your seance bonus but let the other PCs choose whichever spirit bonus they want. It's a constant buff to other players that can be tailored to exactly suit their characters' strengths.
Of course, this requires that you find Pathfinder as a team activity fun, instead of building the best individual you can. And that's just crazy talk.
|
|
There's something else about the medium that no one ever seems to bring up, and that is that if you channel the Marshal spirit and are 2nd level or higher, you can share your seance bonus but let the other PCs choose whichever spirit bonus they want. It's a constant buff to other players that can be tailored to exactly suit their characters' strengths.
Of course, this requires that you find Pathfinder as a team activity fun, instead of building the best individual you can. And that's just crazy talk.
i never realized this :) thanks for info
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Sure! The exact rules are:
"Shared seance: At 2nd level, a medium can share his channeled spirit's aid with his allies. All allies who participate in the medium's seance gain the channeled spirit's seance boon for 24 hours."
And then...
(Marshal Seance Boon): "Choose a seance boon from any of the other legends to benefit from. When using the shared seance class feature, each participant can choose a different boon."
EDIT: I don't play PFS very often, but I did have a medium reach 2nd level recently. It was nice to be able to hand out those kinds of bonuses to everyone else at the table, and people were pretty surprised at it. Obviously, the bonuses work better at lower levels, but still, +2 to all healing spells or +2 to all damage spells or +2 to all non-spell damages is pretty sweet at level 2. It did make my medium less of a RAR TANK than she had been (she had combat-soloed the previous scenario with a dagger and no armor), but the overall party effectiveness was worth it to me.
EDIT 2: Oh, and there's this little bit from the Marshal spirit:
Marshal's Order (Lesser, Su): You can use your spirit surge on attack rolls, saving throws, ability checks, concentration checks, and skill checks rolled by you or any allies who participated in your seance as long as you have line of sight and line of effect, and are within 30 feet of the chosen ally. You can still use spirit surge only once per round.
So that's a few extra free d6s your allies can use when someone absolutely has to make a save/attack/skill check.
|
|
Yeah, I've been wondering if this is the same thread as that enormous one a couple months back.
Think of the Occultist as the tankiest of the 6/9 casters, you get the fewest spells known but you have some hum dingers on your spell list.Also, a lot of classes get half class level as a bonus to a skill, but yours here is UMD...
They get more spells known than any other 6/9 spontaneous caster, 1 per spell level per implement, 49 including cantrips.
Silksworn gets 9 Implimemts so 63. Even sorcs only get 43(34 excluding cantrips) other 6/9 spont casters get 40 (34 excluding cantrips)
With heavy investment in the the human FCB you can have more than the normal Occultist, but not the Silksworn, unless you’re a Sorc with every FCB invested, which adds up to the same amount, but no-one ever does that.
And that doesn't even count focus powers - they're more or less another set of spells known.
I really like the Occultist, it's a really versatile class with a reasonable degree of flexibility, and feels most in line with the older class design.
Well, apart from that it's a nightmare to read the rules for. In actual play, I don't find it that complicated, other than how you have a lot of resources to track.
All the complicated resource allocation is more or less done when you level-up. Day by day, you're not likely switch much around, unless you know exactly what's coming. Switching Mental Focus to divination for all day See Invisibility when visiting the haunted tomb, for example.
-
I really want to play a Kineticist, as while the class's rules write-up is terrifying, the actual play of it looks very very smooth and the burn mechanic is exactly my jam.
|
|
Sure! The exact rules are:
"Shared seance: At 2nd level, a medium can share his channeled spirit's aid with his allies. All allies who participate in the medium's seance gain the channeled spirit's seance boon for 24 hours."
And then...
(Marshal Seance Boon): "Choose a seance boon from any of the other legends to benefit from. When using the shared seance class feature, each participant can choose a different boon."
EDIT: I don't play PFS very often, but I did have a medium reach 2nd level recently. It was nice to be able to hand out those kinds of bonuses to everyone else at the table, and people were pretty surprised at it. Obviously, the bonuses work better at lower levels, but still, +2 to all healing spells or +2 to all damage spells or +2 to all non-spell damages is pretty sweet at level 2. It did make my medium less of a RAR TANK than she had been (she had combat-soloed the previous scenario with a dagger and no armor), but the overall party effectiveness was worth it to me.
EDIT 2: Oh, and there's this little bit from the Marshal spirit:
Marshal's Order (Lesser, Su): You can use your spirit surge on attack rolls, saving throws, ability checks, concentration checks, and skill checks rolled by you or any allies who participated in your seance as long as you have line of sight and line of effect, and are within 30 feet of the chosen ally. You can still use spirit surge only once per round.
So that's a few extra free d6s your allies can use when someone absolutely has to make a save/attack/skill check.
nice will need to work one up for the next time i get to pfs play