How to generate hate for an antagonist.


Advice


I've recently run a failed boss, it was a neutral enemy that simply had a different point of view to the another neutral antagonist.

Needless to say, it didn't work. The party leader just decided it was evil and needed slaying. This felt hollow, as the party did not have a strong opinion of him either way. I've elicited stronger emotions out of the party with glass bottles.

So I want to build something they can hate, and smash with delight.

I've currently trying to understand what makes Joffrey Baratheon and Delores Umbridge so reviled and translate it into Pathfinder.

But it's probably simpler. Like maybe cursing the pirates hat or taking their gold.

What can I do to make my boss hated?

Note: I do NOT mean hated in the meta, as in a boss that cheats for nothing but 20's, uses plot armour to escape death or one-shots a PC for 9999 damage at the DM's discretion, instead of by the rules. This kind of boss sucks ass.


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Making it personal often means something like stealing from the PCs. Either stealing actual wealth or stealing their victories - claiming credit for their work or breaking what they have wrought. Be careful with that last though, it can result in pissed-off players leaving the game ifit feels like they can't achieve anything.


What makes Umbridge so hateable is that she hurts the people that people like. So get an npc that the players like and have him annihilate them, desecrate their body and curse their memory.

Also destroying loot and money could make the characters angry at him. in and out of character


To get that kind of hatred, the characters must be invested in something. You have to strike at what the characters care about. If you have murderhobos, you have to start taking their treasure. Either stealing it, or by grabbing it out from under their noses while they battle other monsters. If you have a druid who is dedicated to the defense of a grove, attack that grove. The cleric helps at an orphanage? Try to shut it down. In the end, you have to make it personal.


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>What can I do to make my boss hated?

Make them kick a puppy in full view of the party. For extra evil points, let it be the familiar or animal companion of this evil dude, which then gets up and follows it's master, it's head low to the ground.

Stealing credit is also a great idea. If PCs come from a quest only to find out that their reward was given to some other person, it gets personal.


-Kill the PCs fictional family members in a gruesome way.
-Frame the PCs for something that didn't do denying them their rewards in the process and taking them for himself.
-Destroy and pillage a village amicable to the PCs, killing and maiming NPCs they were friendly with.
-Publicly humiliate the PCs

All these usually work like a charm with my groups


Basically boss should be petty. The kind of guy that when he can't kill his enemies goes for trying to do anything that can be painful or unpleasant for them. And gloating. Lots of gloating.

He knows they are coming for him?

- Bribe or intimidate everyone into not providing services to the party. Or just outright raze villages and salt the earth on their way. And leave notes telling the party how he hates them.

- Try to kill their support NPCs. Especially those who provide healing or magical equipment.

- Hire assassins to kill party in their sleep. Cheap assassins. That gonna almost each night try and kill player characters with little success. Send party a letter asking about how good was their sleep.


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Narcissism. Narcissism is my favourite tool for inspiring hate. Try a rampant narcissist who fully believes themselves to be the gods' gift to mankind. Make them cling to their every achievement and delight in reminding everyone of how amazing they are. If the PCs mistake this for a friendly game of story-swapping, have them dismiss anything the PCs have done as not being real accomplishments. Point out every flaw the PCs might possibly be seen as having. Refuse to have your villain acknowledge any of their own faults.

Whenever the PCs might try to argue back or make a legitimately good point that the villain can't properly refute, have them go for the politician response: an answer that doesn't actually answer them. Dodge questions, answer questions unrelated to what was asked, shift blame, bring up entirely unrelated incidents and declare them to be proof that the villain is smart, more skillful, morally superior, etc. Whatever angle you're going for, this sort of villain is absolutely (and generally very loudly and charismatically) certain of themselves, completely incapable of accepting that they could ever be (or do) wrong, and dismissive all the while.

For good measure you might want to include some mock sympathy or concern (at the PCs' obvious ineptitude or stupidity, of course) as a means of delivering thinly-veiled insults. If the PCs take issue with it, your aghast villain blames them, to all onlookers, for responding with hostility to their 'honest' attempts at helping them improve themselves.

The one above works particularly well if you've got a social villain. The sort of person who the PCs might meet at a high-society party. The public eye and law enforcement discourage PCs from just resorting to murder right away, and that means more interaction with your villain, and more time for the hatred time to rise to a boil. Interaction is key either way though, so even if your villain isn't quite the party type, try to give the PCs time to get to know/hate them before it finally comes to a boil. If your in a dungeon you might like various illusions, or magic mouth (basically the magic equivalent of a monitor through which your villain can taunt without reprisals for a bit). It's hard to really properly hate someone you just met when you walked into the room, even if they do have a mouthful of dead babies (that's a villain who'll be dismissed as 'just evil', as you had a problem with earlier).


People's own imagination is often better at pushing their own buttons than any GM will ever be. So have the BBEG kidnap NPCs (preferably children) and merely hint at what might be happening to them.
Or better yet: simulacra of the PCs themselves, to make matters even more personal.

Also: fawning minions. It's quite grating to have people constantly go on about how wonderful a person is, while you know it's actually a villain.

Dark Archive

Make them into DIO! MUDA, MUDA, MUDA, MUDA, MUDA, MUDA!!!!!


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One of the most effective villains I ever ran was one who was simply better than the PCs (this concept also works well for an antagonistic adventuring party.)

Nothing is more certain to infuriate a party than a villain who is always a step ahead of them.

This particular villain was a bugbear ranger named, "The Boss". The party first encountered The Boss in a fairly regular combat encounter. The Boss was born out of pure chance - for whatever reason, the dice were entirely in his favor. The PCs just couldn't hit him, and he randomly scored several crits on the party.

He began taunting the party and gloating as they slowly began dropping one by one against him. Once the party was totally beaten and on the brink of defeat, The Boss laughed at them, spat on an unconscious party member, called them pathetic, and said they weren't worth his time. Then, he just walked away. Not ran, not withdrew; he even walked right past a party member, provoking an opportunity attack, and the player didn't even take the attack because they just felt so defeated.

I have never had a party hate a villain more.

By the time it came to their next encounter, The Boss had class levels to back up his previously miraculous luck.

He'd engage in hit and run tactics, breaking and denying resting periods, etc. Every time, I figured it would be the last time the party would encounter The Boss (because they'd defeat him), but he played intelligently, and every time he came out on top. Every time, he'd leave the party bloody, laughing and gloating as he left. Sometimes they'd get the upper hand and almost get him down, just for him to escape with one of the many escape methods at his disposal.

And when they finally gathered enough strength to defeat him the next time he showed up... he didn't. As a villain who'd been stalking them for so long, he realized when he'd been beaten, and he just... left.

I've never had a group of players hate a monster more.

So, my advice is make a villain (or villains) who is just superior to the party. I've done it a few times since (though none so extreme as the Boss) with the same vehement results.

Next time I do it, it'll be with a high-level alchemist who engages the party with doppelganger simulacrums, so even when the party finally gets that first kill, it'll only be to realize they were only fighting a half-strength version of their nemesis, which should evoke some very real despair.

Liberty's Edge

My most successfully hated antagonist was a mere bully that delighted in humiliating the characters.

What made him truly hated though was not his behavior, but the fact that the PCs could do nothing about it even though it was well within their power to kill the bully. But some outside factor forbade them from doing so.

Until said outside protection disappeared.

I never saw such a magnificent display of teamwork and unfettered PCs fury, nor a NPC go down so fast.

It had the added benefits of cementing the party forever ;-)


I made a PC psychopath hate a boss by killing an NPC they had taken care of. A powerful NPC who was undergoing a metamorphosis, so temporarily vulnerable. The PC said that he had carried this NPC "in a papoose".

PCs sometimes take quests, maybe repeatedly. Kill the questgivers. You don't get paid and you just lost your friend. Even the most heartless PC is going to be ticked off.


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Don't overdo it, though. If you regularly attack the PCs family, interests, etc., they will respond by not having any and becoming orphan murderhoboes.


Umbridge and Joffrey share some common hate-able traits, which, quite frankly, are so obvious I'm at a loss for how you cannot identify them. First off they're undeniably cruel and take visible pleasure in inflicting harm. Second, they're both despots, they only desire authority to have power over others and to deny those others power. Third, they're very cowardly, they let others take their risks for them, do their dirty work.
The list goes on but I'm not willing to explain it all in detail because I'm too lazy to make that long a post right now. But I'm willing to sum it up. They're both liars, uncompromising, hypocrites, prejudiced, privileged and undeserving. It still goes on. Amazing, really, how they're still obviously different characters when they have so much in common, really... Anyway, they're the villainous versions of a Mary Sue. Take your cues from that.


Mulet wrote:

{. . .}What can I do to make my boss hated?

{. . .}

For a certain type of campaign . . . Have the boss be the PC's employer, and a Pointy-Haired Boss at that. What did you think that double-pointed hat on Lazzero Delvera is for?

All of a sudden I have this idea for a Hell's Rebels modification in which at least some of the PCs start out as employees of Barzillai Throne, initially convinced that their purpose is to restore peace, justice, and order to a city beset by anarchists and thieves. Have him seem even outwardly sincere when he interviews them personally shortly before the normal start of the AP. Then they find out that they have been tricked. I had a boss who did this to me in real life once . . . And that is the boss that I absolutely hate and will continue to do so to the end of life . . . .

Shadow Lodge

Making a True Neutral villain as a hate sink might be difficult. Neutral people tend not to have humiliation or self-aggrandizement as a goal; as well, they may be more willing to change their minds if it turns out they're wrong than evil, or even some good people.

The best, or at least the easiest way to make a contemptible antagonist is with an evil alignment. It's an obvious thing to say, but I've heard of complaints from Paladin players at antagonists being made CN so they can't smite them.


Have him steal the players' stuff, like gear.

Man... Will they go to the ends of the world to punish a thief...


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Something you can do to make a neutral villain hatable is to give them no remorse for their actions. Druids work well for this.

Yeah, I'm going to restore the balance. Sure it means I flooded that town and killed everyone in it, so?

Have them say something like that without raising their voice or changing their tone. Someone who talks about murder like they're chatting with you on their coffee break. Make them generally surprised when the PCs don't see eye to eye with them. Then turn that casual disregard for life against the PCs and watch as the Druid "saves the day" while killing tons of people in the process.

Have him get praised by rulers or mages or whoever is in power for the drastic actions he took while saving the day. Have the PCs reputation start dwindling among their more wealthy clients while the commoners are too afraid to speak out. Eventually there will be a confrontation.

An alternate to have a fun hated villain (though not neutral) is to have a character who legitimately doesn't understand that what they are doing is wrong. A guy who will happily have a conversation with you over breakfast but stab the waiter for burning his toast, and then continue to discuss things with you as if nothing has gone wrong. No gloating, no taunting, no threats, no "I'm so evil" just complete ignorance to the laws of society while being a perfectly or perhaps even supremely gentlemanly individual. The discord really messes with people.


Oh, of course, there's also the most obvious one.

Have someone the party trusts turn out to be the villain or turn on them.

Nothing will unsettle players more than a friend turning out to be an enemy. Double bonus points if it ends up being a PC.

Anecdote:
A few years back, our group was playing through a homebrew campaign based on the 3.5 Elder Evils book - specifically, we were dealing with Father Llymic. The campaign was a bit of a grinder for PCs, but not for the reasons you'd think: instead, it was just a time of flux in many of our personal lives, so there was quite a bit of player and character rotation, but it actually ended up working, because anyone that left had their character meet a messy end, which helped build up the tension. I ended up being one of those players, so my original PC threw himself off of a cliff after I dropped out.

Several months later, my schedule freed up, and I was able to jump in again. Another of our friends had done the same just before me, and he started playing a rebooted version of one of his old characters: a character whose brother was a elven supremacist bladesinger that I had played. I figured if Kailani was back in the mix, it was time for Jerikel to make his second appearance as well.

The group hated him, and I don't blame anyone. I usually play really Good characters, but Jerikel was deliberately built to be a character that I'd play against type. He was a jerk, he hated everyone in the party but his sister, and resented her for traveling with them. By the second session, I knew that Jerikel was not going to work out and was not the character I wanted to continue playing. However, seeing a golden opportunity, I spoke in private with the GM, "Jerikel's not going to work out. I want him to join Father Llymic."

Needless to say, the GM was delighted. Even moreso because we were on a quest to recover the Necronimicon before Father Llymic's agents could determine its location and deliver it to him.

No one knew or expected that Jerikel had already turned to Father Llymic's service and that he had offered him the Necronomicon when they recovered it in exchange for power and favor.

When they finally got the book, they were all stunned by its dark energy - all except Jerikel, who had been granted protections by Father Llymic. He took the book, offered his sister one last chance to join him, and walked out of the cave.

The players were as stunned as their characters, but fortunately, our group can all really appreciate a good story turn and they all hated Jerikel anyway, so they were pretty psyched that I'd pulled a double-cross off on everyone without them expecting it.

But man oh man, were they all anxious to kill him.

Unfortunately, the aforementioned campaign issues continued to devolve, and the whole thing blew up before they had the chance.


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Make 'em a Kender.

Dark Archive

Part of the hate of those characters is that the main characters have little to no option for dealing with their foes. Harry Potter couldn't lash out at Dolores Umbridge, he had to sit there and endure torture.
Make your bad guy either far too powerful for the party upon first meeting or put him in a position where the party is unable to respond.
For the former, make it obvious that the bad guy could win, but leave them alive. Then, importantly, put the PCs in a position to continue to interact with this bad guy that they know they can't just outwardly defy, until they level a few times and can take justified retribution.
For the other, things like corrupt judge with an entire guard garrison behind his words or an evil sorcerer who is the rightfully elected ruler of a town with the popular support of the villagers that would come upon the PCs if they attack the mayor.

The last thing I can think of is to make the PCs complicit with evil without knowing it. Something like: the city is under siege with little hope of escape. An NPC has the party help open an ancient portal to safety, but when the portal opens, the invading army walks through and thanks the party and the NPC for their roles in the fall of the city.


Lemmy Z wrote:

Have him steal the players' stuff, like gear.

Man... Will they go to the ends of the world to punish a thief...

Better yet, make the villain an anthropomorphic disenchanter :D


^Or in some cases, Anthropomorphic Rust Monster.

(Yes, I know, Anthropomorphic Animal doesn't actually work on either one.)


I've been running a less-than-serious campaign recently, but all of my antagonists, from the rival parties, to the BBEG have inspired strong reactions of hate.

The main rival party call themselves "The Alpha Gang" and are led by a man named Suave. Suave is Lawful Neutral, but the party [d]despises[/b] him, because Suave has the largest sense of undeserved superiority they've ever encountered. I describe him constantly as sneering and scoffing derisively, and generally play up the self-obsessed douche angle. They've fought the Alpha Gang twice, and they've stomped them outright both times, but every time they encounter each other, Suave keeps on acting like he's never lost.

The actual BBEG was a re-skinned Veiled Master called "THE BRAIN MAN!" (Said how it's written) who would frequently show up while the party was going about their business, throw a wrench into how the dungeon was obviously supposed to work, then teleport away. The party mesmerist particularly hated THE BRAIN MAN! because they both insisted that they were the "True Master of the Mind."

I'd say overall, that giving an antagonist an undeserved air of superiority will make them 100% hate-able.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Want true hate? Introduce an ally. One who is great to them. Helps them. Is fantastic. Then have that person betray them. They'll hate him for it. Then, as they eventually kill him, gave them learn he was manipulated. They'll hate him, themselves, and the bad guy who turned him


A D&D comic book had the "Sintaurs", evil centaurs who would wait outside the dungeon for the wounded, spell-tapped PCs... and then rob them. Repeatedly.

Sadly, in a real game the PCs would just sleep in a magical dome inside the dungeon.

QuidEst wrote:
Make 'em a Kender.

Best answer in the thread.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Concentrating on ways that a neutral can get hated.

Cheat the PCs in some way.

Perhaps hire them to do a job and then either directly refuse to pay up or quote some loophole that legally (but not morally) absolves them of the duty to pay up.

Have them a religious fanatic to a god that none of the PCs respects.

A lawful party isn't going to be very impressed with a fanatic of Besmara (CN) and may not like a fanatic of Calistria (CN) or Cayden Cailean (CG). A chaotic party probably isn't going to like a fanatic of Abadar (LN). Adjust based on the gods in your world.

Steal their thunder.

Glory hogs, stealing their victories, spreading false rumors and defaming the PCs. Something that they are likely to take personally.

Rivalry

It could be someone from a rival guild, or someone from a different nation that they don't like. You can make this a bit more murky if both sides are partially to blame for the problems between the two groups.


Another fun way to generate hate is a high level wizard with both teleportation and summon monster spells. Have him show up randomly, prebuffed, behind existing enemies, spawn in a wave or two of summoned monsters, and then port out. Its more fun if you, yourself, don't even know when he is going to show up. Roll for about a 20% chance and then summon a random appropriate monster. I like Aurochs because every loves random cow attacks.

If you like that, consider other spells that change the area of the battlefield. Nothing says Hi like warping in, dropping a giant fog cloud, and warping back out with no warning. Early on it can be random patches of Grease, and later on he can drop Black Tentacles in specific areas or even walls of fire before leaving. Spawn him far enough away that the party cannot easily reach him, and don't give them a chance to fight him until they are ready to deal with a high level wizard and his/her cronies.


Have them misuse aspects/powers the PCs have. Because they're being villainous and public about it, various NPCs will distrust their party simply because their abilities line up with the villain. Have the PCs know that this is a new development, primarily caused by the antagonist. They have now personally ruined much of the PCs lives, without directly touching them.

Edit: you could also have them vehemently opposed to the PCs interests. For example, I once had a Numerian character that was more than willing to... stage demonstrations of interesting Physics... on any Druid who was confused about the meaning of "Laws of Nature."

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