Even if you use good tactics, the GM will almost certainly f@%% you over anyways. They're clearly biased in Samurai Guy's favor.
Honestly, from the info given it just sounds like he's more of a pushover than an a%$@*$$. I imagine his response to the Samurai's request/demand for higher level was probably "Well...if everyone else is fine with it..." and nobody spoke up because it sounds like this guy is a bully and nobody wants to deal with him.
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"Honourable" means "I get to keep my advantages, but you can't use yours". F*@~ that. Kill his character in his sleep.
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Actually he is... unlike what people seem to believe, samurai generally had the license to be total asshats to people below their station, provided he did not offend someone important while doing so.I should add as a Canadian we had no problem asking the ass hat playing the "samurai" in our game to leave.
Because lordy. Yikes. He was not a samurai.
For a large chunk of Japanese history, weren't Samurai allowed to slaughter peasants if they felt that the peasants offended them?
Ah, here it is.
If I recall correctly we have seen the "Way of the Samaurai" in action a lot more recently than the feudal age, too. From roughly 1939 to 1945, to be exact. To my understanding, the things the Japanese military did were pretty consistent with the attitudes of the Japanese warrior class throughout history. The concept of the "Honorable Samurai" is a bit of a bad joke, all things considered.
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why don't you and all of the characters in game just say to the samurai. were not gonna travel with you anymore, we don't like you. I mean what is he going to say, "no, I'm just going to follow you guys" then if he does just go to the local authorities and tell them that you have a stalker on your hands. if you do do that then the gm will probably focus on you guys, and the samurai would probably have to change his character if he actually wants to be a part of the party.
if you want you don't even have to tell him. when he's asleep everyone else just wake up and leave in the middle of the night. and leave a note saying "screw you samurai, were leaving."
Does the a Magic sword? Wear Magic Armor? If so he is going againist his hated of magic. Tell him to use all non magic gear an fight him. He will change his toon quick.
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I have to admit that situations like this are horrible for any party, and definitely for a playgroup. I've seen it many times in the last 20 years of gaming. I've even been responsible for it a couple of times; maybe I have learned . . . .
1) An out-of-game discussion is certainly called for at this point. If you aren't able to play your class in all its aspects, then why are you even playing that class? Forcing tough decisions is reasonable for some roleplaying efforts, but not within the party dynamic -- an eggshell parade is not at all cool. Go to the next session with a barbarian character (or, better yet, bloodrager) ready to go and ask to write-out your magus in favor of the new character. Gaming at all is better than not. If that option gets shot down by the DM/GM, then you're left with option two . . . .
2) Be the dishonorable, witcherous (Ha! That could almost be a word.), low-down, dirty, rotten scumbag you've already been accused of being or implied as being. Wait till the next combat encounter, let him take a few hits, and then leverage that 41-damage attack to put him out of your misery. You're a magus!! Act like one!! I can see it going down like this: Samurai gets hit. You ray of enfeeblement and vanish. Following round you spellstrike that shocking grasp. Magus 1, samurai 0. Game, set, match. Closing line: "You'll never threaten anyone else ever again." Cheesy, but completely relevant.
And then you turn the campaign into an arcane crusade against whatever liege/noble is such a c@(*$^(*!ng b@$tich as to recruit even one military envoy as that. "The rest of them will be gunning for us now; somehow they'll know (Isn't that right, Mr. DM?). We've gotta kill them all."
3) Decline every duel. If he violates his code of honor, you will still kill him. If you suddenly decide to get uppity and accept the challenge, you will still kill him. 46 hp is pretty easy to overcome, even at level 3, and even for a 3/4 partial caster. Everyone pointing you toward alchemical items has it right -- fire/acid/thunderstone/tanglefoot his @$$ to an unmarked grave in the middle of nowhere and defecate in his armor and ship it back to his master.
4) Get the GM/DM to level the rest of you up to fifth for the sake of parity and good gamesmanship, and use any of the previous suggestions to put that game-blighting spawn of questionable parentage in his place. Kill my fun? I'll kill *you*! And have fun doing it!
I agree with those that think the GM is complicitious in this. If the usual talking things out appears futile, I would conspire with the other players to seperate the group (in game) and see how much fun the GM has dealing with players each doing their seperate thing.
This is actually very clever to me. Just... split the party. Simple as that.
Duh.
Read the whole thing. The samurái player is a jerk and the GM is either guilty or idiot.
My suggestion is "Leave that game"
Definite OOC player-to-player-to-GM conversation.
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Make sure you let us know how it turns out. Also, if you have the cash, try a wasp nest of swarming.
My advice would be to speak to the DM and ask him to intervene on your behalf. If the player believes his gravy train of advantage may be lost then he might wind his neck in. Or ask the DM to advance the rest of you to 5th level to even the odds.
I'll be honest I think the problem is the DMs not the player (ok well partly the samurai player). Why on earth the DM would allow a single player to be two levels higher than the others is beyond me.
If he is your long term friend as you have said, ask him to make this right. I would suggest a private email to the others in the group appealing for support before the next game and asking them for advice. They may well be in position to assist.
Definitely don't try to kill him/fight him. In my experience that kind of player just rolls another character and comes back for revenge. If your DM won't help and the samurai player won't listen then run away if he attacks you and come back later. If he attacks again run away again. Keep doing this until it becomes clear that the samurai player is not just stopping you using magic he is forcing you from the party. That should force the Dm/other players to step in.
Make sure you let us know how it turns out. Also, if you have the cash, try a wasp nest of swarming.untill then ill take whatever advice i can because this guy has coudegras and a whip he can use to disarm people makeing them vulnerable so until then ill take what advice i can get.
That shouldn't be too much of a problem by itself. He'd need whip mastery to be able to actually hurt you with the whip, improved disarm if he is going to avoid AAO and you could quite easily have 5 - 10 daggers as backup weapons since most of the damage comes from your shocking grasp anyway.
Also - not having a weapon doesn't mean you can get hit by a coup-de-gras. You have to be helpless, not just unarmed to be vulnerable to those. Unless he can disarm you and time you up all in the same attack then a coup-de-gras isn't going to be your main concern.
Certainly point out the magic sword/armour thing as well if it does ever come to a duel... if he says 'i need it to balance your filthy spellcasting' then you have carte blanche for as much alchemy as you need!
and this guy has no issue with killing any of us either
Why would any of you travel with this person? Is there some kind of Geas forcing you to work together?
Think about it. If you knew a person was, for example, extremely racist against whatever ethnicity you are, and was just itching for an excuse to kill you, would you want to be anywhere near this person?
Even if their homicidal bigotry was aimed at a friend of yours instead of you directly, would you want them around?
Why hasn't your group told him to f#+% off down the road yet?
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Speaking seriously now: The first thing I'd try is demand, in one form or another, level parity for the party. True, it doesn't have to be this way (think, after all, of 2nd Edition and before, where level parity was unlikely, to say the least), but it's a 100% reasonable thing to ask for (or alternatively, everyone else gets some kind of bonus that the Samurai doesn't in order to compensate for the level disparity), and if this guy and/or your DM have an ounce of decency in them, they would have to have a VERY convincing reason (which is of course your judgement to make, not theirs) to say no.
How do you know this guy? How does the DM know them? What's going on between the two of them? Something seems very fishy here.
Make sure you let us know how it turns out. Also, if you have the cash, try a wasp nest of swarming.yeah im definitely telly you all how it goes if i cant get him to stop i may be able to kill him in a duel and ill be certain to tell you all about how badly i style him. if i kill him if i die then my char had a good run i suppose although it would have been nice to rectify his backstory. the next game is on Friday October the 23rd so i have plenty of time to prepare untill then ill take whatever advice i can because this guy has coudegras and a whip he can use to disarm people makeing them vulnerable so until then ill take what advice i can get.
Everyone "has" Coup de Grace, and as Nikolaus de'Shade pointed out it only matters if he can render you helpless. Unarmed =/= Helpless. And even if he disarms you, you do realize that you can use Spell Combat and Spellstrike with your unarmed strike, right? The more that you describe this Samurai, the less scary he sounds. He is opposed to magic so he has no magic items, and he used one of his precious feats on EWP whip? That's not a great build for a Samurai.
On the other hand, your build has serious problems too.
(1) How are you using Spell Combat with a Bastard Sword when you don't have EWP Bastard Sword?
(2) Why are you wearing chain mail when you aren't proficient in it, and you will also suffer ASF from it?
(3) Why did you take Intensified Spell at 3rd level when you won't get even a small benefit from it until 6th?
DO not accept his duel.
Use his honor against him. Ask him what honor and why have it. Pretty quickly you will come up with stupid biased reasons that will be easily loop to back to him being wrong.
Ignorance is never a correct moral standing. He is ignorant of magic and hates it for reason.
I would tell him I believe you are a source for good in this world and a duel would be either mine or your death. I plan to do great deal of good deeds in my life as well.
So your duel will remove good from the world and thus is evil. I do no accept.
You can change good to whatever he believes in.
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Make sure you let us know how it turns out. Also, if you have the cash, try a wasp nest of swarming.yeah im definitely telly you all how it goes if i cant get him to stop i may be able to kill him in a duel and ill be certain to tell you all about how badly i style him. if i kill him if i die then my char had a good run i suppose although it would have been nice to rectify his backstory. the next game is on Friday October the 23rd so i have plenty of time to prepare untill then ill take whatever advice i can because this guy has coudegras and a whip he can use to disarm people makeing them vulnerable so until then ill take what advice i can get.
The problem with that, is that you are rewarding the bully behavior of that guy, by giving him what he wants. He wants to disrupt the game, and impose his rules, and by doing that, you are rewarding him and making him happy. EVEN if you win the duel, he wins the war. His next character would be ANOTHER bully, and he will AGAIN makes everybody else miserable in the game, by stealing the spotlight, making everything about him, forcing others to play like he wants, bullying and intimidating players and characters, and generally ruining the experience of everybody.
I would give your GM (and the bully) the link to this thread, so he could see the general consensus in the community about his horrible GMing skills if he lets other people to threat PC and disrupt the game, especially when he let that guy to have extra levels. Then I would tell him that I'm not going to play with that bully, so it's either kick him out of the game (or change his behaviour, of course), or you leave.
An alternative plan B would be: when the duel happens, after he says "I hit you for 35 damage", just refuse to remove your hit points, and keep playing. When he says "you are dead", answer "no, I'm not", and keep playing. Everybody can be obnoxious when they want, not just the jerks who play overzealous samurais to bragg and compensate for their real life small penises or whatever.
my charecter is wearing a light chain shirt wich he is proficient in and the way spell combat i believe works is that you can attack with your bastard sword in two hands and then attack with your spell because you don't attack with both at the same time and instead you attack with one after the other and as for intensified spell... well i had no idea what feats to...
You misunderstand spell combat. Spellstrike works with a 2h weapon, but not spell combat.
You misunderstand spell combat. Spellstrike works with a 2h weapon, but not spell combat.
my charecter is wearing a light chain shirt wich he is proficient in and the way spell combat i believe works is that you can attack with your bastard sword in two hands and then attack with your spell because you don't attack with both at the same time and instead you attack with one after the other and as for intensified spell... well i had no idea what feats to...really? so i cant use a free action in the middle of spell combat to switch between 2 and 1 handed for the bastard sword in order to use magic? if so i must have misread somthing
Spell Combat has some stupid rules, the upshot of which is that you must have 1 hand free for the enire full attack.
Anyway, we can almost certainly help you absolutely crush the samurai in a duel, if you want to go that route. I still think you should out him from your gaming group, honestly, he sounds like he's just there to have fun at your expense.
If you want to be non-confrontational, just get the other players' contact information, and invite them over to play without telling the annoying guy. I'm assuming you're playing PFS here, but just telling you that you don't have to. You can even keep doing the PFS scenarios, if you want, but you don't have to be part of the official society.
One of the perks of not playing PFS is that you don't have to invite people you don't like to your house if you don't want to.
The weakness of a samurai is that they must try to restore their honor if they become dishonored, which usually involves seppuku (ritual suicide). If he challenges you to a duel when you are not carrying weapons, that is a dishonorable act. Point it out.
Until he challenges you, let him bear the brunt of any melee combats your party is in. He cannot refuse this if he is samurai.
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Yeah, that's a common situation.
Why? Why is this a common situation? How does it keep coming up? Do people somehow not realize that they are entering a cooperative game and are actively ruining the fun of others by not playing cooperatively? Why can't players (and GMs) act like adults, rather than sniveling children? Are there really so many spineless GMs who don't know how to handle a situation as basic as this?
I find it totally insane that this situation happens at all, much less keeps happening, in peoples' games. It just doesn't make any sense at all.
It sucks, but he's probably going to gank your character. I mean if you want, I'd say go full 'dishonor', wait until he challenges you to the duel, make sure you set up places where you have plenty of cover, pick up vanish and go guerrilla tactics.
Full dishonor would be gutting him in his sleep.
That being said, in-game solutions rarely ever resolve anything. Best to talk to the GM and/or the player. Find out if he is an idiot or an a$*@@%@. If he is the former, show him how the game is meant to be played (that is, cooperatively). If he is the latter, kick him out. You don't need that kind of drama in your hobby--the hobby that's supposed to allow you to relax, not get stressed out.
a samurai that gets offended by well just about everything and then challenge people to duels to the death.Stop gaming with children.
Amen to that!
Seriously, stop with the passive-aggressive nonsense about engaging on his terms. Don't try to fight his character. Declare, OOC, that you do not want the current trend of PvP bullying to continue. Insist that it is not cool and is making the game un-fun for you.
No, it's not as "fun", but it's much more effective long-term in dealing with an asshat.
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Nearly got me into trouble at work...
The GM and the player need to be put in their places, by whom you ask, everyone else is the answer.
Best practice, talk it out with the player and the GM, though I get a sinking feeling that may not work. So, my suggestion if adult conversation fails (sad when that happens) is thus;
You and the rest of the players show up to the next game, then refuse to acknowledge anything the bully player does, if the GM does not get the hint and tries to shift blame to you guys (aka, why are you guys not playing, we started the session, etc, etc?) Kindly inform him because he has not dealt with the problem player, the game shall not move one plot inch, not one encounter forward until he does, and in a fair and reasonable manner. If the "game in" fails to have the desired effect, I would look for a new GM and a replacement player, as the rest of the group can simply go with majority rules, and this majority says "get your crud together or get out Mr. GM and Mr. jerk-off samurai!
Seriously, stop with the passive-aggressive nonsense about engaging on his terms. Don't try to fight his character. Declare, OOC, that you do not want the current trend of PvP bullying to continue. Insist that it is not cool and is making the game un-fun for you.
No, it's not as "fun", but it's much more effective long-term in dealing with an asshat.
The real challenge here is that you need to choose either an OOC confrontation or an IC one. Doing both casts you in a pissy light. If the GM has chosen to let the character be two levels above the others, it is not likely you will get a favourable response OOC. Offing the offending PC IC may get you to a situation where there will be a discussion about this. Then again, it might not. Once you have exhausted either route, your only recourse is to leave or threaten to do so.
The reason my advice is as simplistic as "complain" is that the OP has been very firm that his GM is not biased, just lazy and ineffectual.
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Its not uncommon to have a DM/GM insert some sort of drama into the game.
That's said this seems like the DM/GM a)might be a sleep on the job or b)Not aware this player was planning on being a dick.
This could be done or handled in many different ways we had a player character get the werewolf thing and as times he almost killed the party, rather then gang up and kill him, we actually decided that we would just stick him out the front (like the hulk) and say smash, once we had a game plan then we were ok.
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Yeah, that's a common situation.Why? Why is this a common situation? How does it keep coming up? Do people somehow not realize that they are entering a cooperative game and are actively ruining the fun of others by not playing cooperatively? Why can't players (and GMs) act like adults, rather than sniveling children? Are there really so many spineless GMs who don't know how to handle a situation as basic as this?
I find it totally insane that this situation happens at all, much less keeps happening, in peoples' games. It just doesn't make any sense at all.
It's common because people like flexing their character's muscles. It's not great, I'm not defending this, but I've played with enough people who need an outlet to be a bully, and this is how they get it. Some GMs don't want to intervene due to being non confrontational themselves, considering it easier to let player drama work itself out. It's not great, but it's common.
It sucks, but he's probably going to gank your character. I mean if you want, I'd say go full 'dishonor', wait until he challenges you to the duel, make sure you set up places where you have plenty of cover, pick up vanish and go guerrilla tactics.Full dishonor would be gutting him in his sleep.
For his character, yes. But this isn't about his character, it never was. This is about the player. Killing him in his sleep will only anger and annoy him. Beating him with unique tactics will shame the player, and really, that's who you're dealing with here.
As I stated in my first post in the thread, this is an OOC issue and should be dealt with as such, but again if he's going to be a jerk, you need to beat him soundly enough to the point where he doesn't have that needless confidence anymore, smash him so he doesn't have the ego to go doing something like that again. The rest of your party will probably find it amusing as well, and you can help break this 'fear' they have of messing with him if you manage to defeat him cleverly. Show him that you're not going to be his victim.
As mentioned, it is definitely likely the samurai is going to become a BBEG, especially if he really said "my character is more of a story character".
I still say you should gut him in his sleep or while he is weak though. He is clearly harmful to the party, and as mentioned, likely to betray the party.
Gut him, or just skip out on town without him. You're throwing a colossal wrench into your DMs plans of using this character as a villain. Course, if the DM wants him as a villain, he will make him into a villain. Alive or undead. Seeing the samurai at the side of the main antagonist as an undead graveknight could be a nice moment.