Hello everyone,
I'm about to take on a Mummy Mask game (no spoilers please), and even though it is not definitely set in stone, it would seem I will be sort of accumulating the 'tank' (I am aware this is not an MMO) and scout/roguish roles.
That being said, and given my propensity to think that even strongly martial characters should pack at least some arcane power, mainly defensive and utility spells, I admit that the 'caster' in the title above is my own addition :D
Lately I've been getting more and more inclined to play martial characters who use spells with the best action economy (I'd say Magus, Bloodrager and Warpriest? I'd love to come up with an half decent reason to take Potion Glutton, adding Investigator and Alchemist to the list, but I don't really think I will manage...).
In fact, I was strongly inclined to play a Bloodrager build I really dig (Primalist/Spelleater), but I want to have a go at this.
I'll just let you all know I am sitting on a pretty good stat block to start off - 18, 18, 14, 12, 11, 9 aaaaand... Brace yourselves... We're getting 2(two) stat points per level :P
We're starting at level 1 of course.
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So... my first, and immediate idea, and even without knowing if it is efficiently feasible as melee, was to go Investigator (probably Empiricist) or Bard, not sure if a Dex or Str build - they have the relevant skills, the skill points to use them, arcane power and versatility, the whole nine yards. But the action economy is something I crave :D
Magus are king when it comes to fighting and casting efficiently, but their skill list makes me want to cry, as well as the amount of skill points (though with perhaps an uncanny Int stat I could offset this some) - in spite of me always tending for Str based magus (I admit I never played a Magus), I suspect Dex might be the way to go in this case, since it would assist with other roguish skills. But again, their skill list is REALLY bad. Unless I dip (start) as rogue, though that would hurt my BAB enormously.
Now Bloodragers... They are really growing on me, and for a tankish one, I find that Arcane Bloodline would be hard to beat. However, it seems to me they lack the skill set (even though having more skills than Magus), and the Stat synergy seems a little off, as they stand to gain much less from an high Int and/or Dex - am I looking at it wrong? Bloodragers seem to make more sense when they are strong, and that doesn't mesh very well with the 'roguish' skills. Could they work as a decent chassis for the character I want to play?
Warpriests are the BOMB, but what I mainly crave are some particular arcane spells (like Shield, Mirror Image, Displacement, Haste, Stoneskin, Fly, Dimension Door, etc) that I believe make a strong difference for a martial, and Warpriest has none of those. They also have an dreadfully low amount of skill points and the skill set is off (though I guess we can agree it is kinda off for all the classes above).
So, yeah... This is where I am at. I know I may be spreading myself too thin (I tend to do that), but does anyone have any advice or ideas regarding this mash up of roles?
Thank you in advance.
Sounds like a Vivisectionist to me. Self buff extracts, check. High skills per level, check. Ability to rack up large hit point total, check.
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Being both a tank and a skill monkey can be a very daunting task. It's almost impossible, in my opinion, since many skill monkies aren't very durable, and most tanks have hardly any incentive to invest in skills, when investing in combat options are probably more important. But it's not impossible. However, I would not try to cover all of the bases. You can cover the Knowledge checks (not recommended), Face stuff (can work, if you're the party leader), or your miscellaneous Rogue stuff (which I recommend).
I would personally recommend the Ranger class, as he's perhaps the best at accomplishing being both a Tank and Skill Monkey. Although it's not an Arcane caster, he does have access to special abilities, can cast up to 4th level Divine spells, has D10 Hit Dice, Full BAB progression, can ignore pre-requisites for certain feats, and has a grand total of 6 skill points per level. He's not as versatile or as skill-heavy as the Bard, but with your stat array, you can definitely make due. For Archetypes, Witchguard from the People of the North Companion book is a really neat archetype that gives you access to some really unique spells that you wouldn't normally possess (i.e. Haste), substitutes class skills for other important ones, and some other stuff. Infiltrator can be nice to tack on as well, giving you access to special benefits based on your Favored Enemy choices, for in-combat (or even out of combat) situations, and all you substitute is some silly Favored Terrain.
It would also be worth it to consider dipping some levels into Barbarian, typically Invulnerable Rager. A 10 levels Ranger and 10 levels Barbarian does reduce your Skill-Monkiness, but it's certainly a better high-end combat option, when you can select things like the Greater Beast Totem for your capstone, receive Damage Reduction, Natural Armor, etc. all while raging. You'd only lose 2 skill points per level (i.e. 20 skill points), while still maintaining a full BAB class, with some pretty solid saves to boot. Did I mention that you can now cast certain spells while Raging?
For Race, it depends. Personally, Human is a nice all-around class, and since you can substitute the Bonus Feat and Skill Point per level, you can instead gain +2 to 2 statistics of your choice, which is crazy awesome.
The stat array is pretty nice. Having 2 18s to start out can make a really big deal, and allows you more MAD options, such as the Bard or Paladin, but Bard isn't really tankey, nor is it really effective as a martial combatant, and Paladin has a lot of needless baggage for possibly being a Skill Monkey, plus it lacks Skill Points.
Here's my recommended Stat Array:
Strength - 18
Dexterity - 14
Constitution - 18
Intelligence - 11
Wisdom - 12
Charisma - 9
I'm also assuming you guys will be getting access to two traits starting out, as the APG suggests for all players. I would recommend getting some Skill Monkey traits that provide Class Skills, such as Disable Device. Getting +2 to Initiative, a +1 to all Will Saves, or a +2 to your Caster Level, since you have access to Patron spells, are all great choices for your traits.
Here are my recommended Skill Arrays, assuming you go full Ranger:
Knowledge (Nature) MAX
Perception MAX
Disable Device MAX
Acrobatics? MAX
Survival MAX
Stealth MAX
Swim/Climb 10/10
I would recommend Acrobatics if you are going to be wearing Light Armor (or armor that functions as Light, such as Mithril Breastplate). If you're going to be wearing Medium Armor, this means you can't normally use Acrobatics, meaning you should shore up your Swim/Climb in the events of Anti-Magic Fields.
As for weapon style, it's ultimately your choice. Two-Handed Weapons deal more damage and emphasize your Strength, but using a Light Shield with a one-handed weapon can also work, and is more tankey.
Good luck.
Have you looked at the skald medium armor and rage powers make it more tanky than the bard. Also, I think Archaeologist bard or Dervish dancer bard are thematically appropriate and can accomplish the task you want.
Personally I would go with archaeologist bard.
Although, an Oracle could accomplish your goal too, with divine spells and not arcane, but I don't know if this is better then the warpriest except that it gets 9 levels of spell progression.
This looks like the job for a kineticist.
An earth kineticist, for example, gets DR/adamantine (or DR/might as well be - most of the time) on par with an invulnerable rager...and they can increase that by spending burn (which is a fanastic way to get overflow bonuses; DR/6 and +3 attack/+5 damage at level 6.). You start with light armor, but you do not deal with arcane spell failure (SLAs and all), so you can feel free looking for ways to get better armor and maybe a shield (I've seen some disagreement about whether that interferes with gather power, but your hand appears to be free if using a buckler) so your AC can be fine.
So...yeah. They are great for blasts that can do normal spellish stuff (entangling an enemy and gluing them to the floor seems like a great way to go about it). Earth's blasts hit for slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning, so they should have little trouble against most undead.
So, earth glide and tremor sense can cover a lot when it comes to scouting. And with your insane stat array (and kineticists are VERY forgiving with stats- they only have two important ones)... having a ton of skills is not hard. 4 base+1 from 12 int+1 from human. 6 skill points right there.
I know I have been going on about the earth element alot....but it is REALLY good (I admit a bias, but do not admit that the bias is unfounded). Aether is also good since it can do things like turn invisible, so it is worth considering as your second element at level 7 (not as good a pair for blasting, but hey- you are a tank and skill monkey with a lot of other tricks, and the simple blasts are not bad). Staying pure earth could give you stuff to fight DR/metal though, as well as a way to boost the whole party's attacks for a round.
I'd go with an oracle with the seeker archetype and the battle mystery. Melee combat capable, check. Trapfinding and 4+ skills/level, check. Casting ... if 9-level isn't enough you're Doing Something Wrong.
Stealth you can pick up with any of several traits. Perception isn't so easy (one specific trait IIRC?) but besides the trapfinding you could learn and use the Find Traps spell.
Friendly reminder any class can gain Disable Device as a class skill by taking the Trap Finder trait.
I'm in the same situation as you OP, and I eventually settled on an arcane primalist Bloodrager with that trait, so I'll be able to disable traps, in addition to destroying all the things in fits of rage. Doesn't help with Stealth, but you can't get all your cake and eat it too I suppose.
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Double friendly reminder: Trap Finder is a campaign trait and that turns off a lot of people, but this time, you're actually playing the AP it's from.
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I'd actually suggest Oracle as well. There was a build using the Diefic Obediances, Mystery Cultist and Nature mystery IIRC. Push CHA for defenses and spell casting. Use spells for combat/utility as needed (spell pages).
The original build was maybe from Walter's Guide to Deific Obediances?
My build (a reconstruction of a 2E character for 3.x) was an Angelkin Aasimir 7 Nature Oracle/10 Mystery cultist/3 Oracle. (1) Noble Scion [War, CHA to Int], (3) Celestial Obedience [Arshea], (5) Power Attack, (7) Furious Focus, (9) Blessed (11+) open feats.
Oracle:
Nature's Whispers (CHA instead of DEX to AC), Natural Divination (CHA to saves or +4 intiative roll or +10 skill check, few times per day), Spirit of Nature (stabilize in natural areas, Fast healing 1 1d4 rounds when reduced to negatives).
Mystery Cultist:
Glorious Aura (+4 Sacred bonus to CHA, 10' aura save or frightned, rounds per day), Arshea's Charmer (Mirror Image 2/day or Charm Monster 1/day), Brand of Healing (Heal 1/day), Summon Celestial (Summon specific from Summon VI and VIII 1/day), Fervor (+2 Sacred to hit/damage, DR 5/Evil, +10 movement, +2 caster level, rounds per day), Flawless Form (CHA to AC as armor bonus), Incorruptible (+2 vs Poison and Disease, perma Gentle Repose on death, indefinite time to Raise Dead when dead, immune to becoming undead), Liberation (Freedom 1/day), Sacred Haven (Teleport/Plane Shift 10 allies to save place, then back 1/day; essentially a save point).
Medium BAB from both classes (14/9/4), 9/10 casting from Mystery Cultist (19th caster at 20), 6/6/12 saves. CHA to casting, initiative, CMD, as DEX and Armor to AC.
Divine Favor(1)/Might(4), Blessing of Fervor(4), Bestow Grace of the Champion(7) for more difficult opponents. Otherwise spells for utility as wanted/needed.
First of all thanks for all the feedback people. I have a very busy weekend, so will try to acknowledge each one at a time.
@Jaunt: How is it that Vivisectionists 'rack up large hit point total'? :D
Also, regarding my action economy fixation, you don't think it is possible to pack everything up in a bundle, or not worth it?
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@Jaunt: How is it that Vivisectionists 'rack up large hit point total'? :D
I think he's referring to the ability to take a Con-boosting mutagen. Though, with your stat block you could easily put one 18 in Con and get more HP than your typical fighter. The alchemist also gets some nice defensive discoveries like Preserve Organs, which gives you a % chance to negate crits or sneak attacks, or spontaneous healing, which gives you a small free-action healing effect.
You can also grab wings or a tumour familiar, which could help scout and with the right familiar archetype could be a flanking partner (mauler), bodyguard (protector), or extra skill monkey (sage). Beastmorph is compatible and worth considering with Vivisectionist since it can give you extra senses and movement capabilities (from fly to pounce).
Overall I think alchemist is a really good fit for what you want. Can't go wrong with human, though I'd also consider tiefling as you can then grab starting stats of 18/16/18/14/11/7, +2 stealth, darkvision, and a prehensile tail.
Also, regarding my action economy fixation, you don't think it is possible to pack everything up in a bundle, or not worth it?
Not worth it. The alchemist's action economy is fine, and trying for a better action economy will probably require serious tradeoffs, particularly in the skill department.
Looks like you should give a try at the Occultist Battle Host Archetype, how does a free masterwork full plate armor at level 1 sounds to you?
How about 4 + int points of skill points (and their spellcasting stat is Int. so more skill pts ftw!)
They also get these class skills:
Appraise (Int), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Disguise (Cha), Fly (Dex), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
They also get all simple and martial weapons and all types of armors and shields, just be sure not to lose that armor or you are kind of screwed until you can retrieve it!
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I'm not sure I'd go battle host. Aside from increasing the risk of losing your panoply bond, you give up one of your 1st level implements and a lot of your versatility in identifying and using magic items. Together with the check penalties for heavy armour, that puts a crimp on your "rogue" role.
A standard occultist can still do a pretty good job as a frontliner. Transmutation and abjuration, I think, for level 1. +2 stat enhancement and the ability to produce a magic weapon - and magic armour if you pick up aegis as a focus power. Shield spell. Haste, Stoneskin, and Fly come up later. Illusion implements at 2 or 6 give you most of the rest of the spells on your list and a miss chance to hit you, competing with Divination for sensory abilities (again, the rogue angle). Conjuration at 10 gives you dimension door and backup healing. Tiefling is again a good choice for stats, though elf and human get better FCB.
Might be a bit trickier with stats, though, since mental focus means the occultist needs Int more than the vivisectionist does. You'd want to start with at least a 14, I think, and maybe a 16 - put your 14 in Int and add a racial bonus.
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Scouting takes very little investment for a druid - put ranks in perception and stealth, and at level 4+ make use of wild shape to get small and/or fly. Earth Glide is available for level 6. I built a tank/caster druid and ended up doing a lot of scouting almost by accident because I had a good perception and could gain flight and a +15 bonus to stealth for turning diminuitive. And with an 11 int based on OP's rolled stats, the druid will have enough skill points for disable device (with the campaign trait for trapfinding) and 1 or 2 other skills. Since OP only lists Perception, Stealth, and Disable Device as being important I'm assuming the rest of the party has at least some ability to pick up social and knowledge skills.
The big issue with the druid for OP - and the biggest argument in favour of alchemist, or maybe occultist or investigator - is that druid doesn't have the specific spells he wants.
Standard alchemists are pretty SAD. A melee alchemist is only moderately MAD, allowing a decent chunk of it to go into Con, he can ghetto up Bear's Endurance until he gets a proper belt for it. Needing Int only fuels your skillmonkeyness, and if you feel like you've got enough skill points, you can go low on int. Your ideal setup doesn't involve a lot of extracts with saving throws, and bombs are a nonissue to Vivisectionists. Toss in your mutagen (eventually), some defensive extracts, and you're good to go.
Inquisitor is a skill monkey with 6 spell levels and can tank with judgments.
Druids are really versatile. Begin as a reach druid with Combat Reflexes and Power Attack, and then tank in wildshape later in your career. You also get 4+ skill points per level. You can scout in wildshape form, too. Also, 9 levels of spells.
Rangers can tank, switch-hit, scout, and have some spells.
If 3rd party material is available, check out the Arbiter in the Thunderscape setting book- it's a sword/shield user that invests in Intelligence for strategies, which can be used to make both an excellent tank and scout. No spells, but probably one of the best no-magic, high-utility classes I've seen, and, other than the kite shield (basically part-way between a heavy shield and tower shield), nothing about the class is tied to the mechanics of Thunderscape, and could be easily ported over.
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If you're playing Mummy's Mask, go Paladin 3/Ranger the rest of the way. You could go Paladin to 2 only if you want, but the disease immunity is REALLY nice. I mean, it's right there in the AP title. Tons of skill points from ranger, a smite per day to deal with tricky/do some spike damage, lay on hands for a little extra HP, plus the favored enemy choices are easy.
If you really want the spell thing, I recommend Paladin 2-3/Archaeologist Bard the rest. Your spells are used entirely for buffing anyways, so getting the delayed progression doesn't hurt too much.
Just noticed your list of preferred spells. A battle oracle doesn't get those, true, but they do get plenty of others. Some highlights:
1st: Enlarge person gives you reach to smack down enemies before you are smacked yourself.
2nd: Grace lets you move around and get extra AoOs from your reach.
3rd: Channel vigor can give you haste, or other bonuses if you choose. Magic Vestment is an hours-long buff.
4th: Blessing of Fervor is haste (or other useful effects) for the whole party.
As a full caster you'd be getting 3rd+ level spells well before a 6-level caster too.
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If you're playing Mummy's Mask, go Paladin 3/Ranger the rest of the way. You could go Paladin to 2 only if you want, but the disease immunity is REALLY nice. I mean, it's right there in the AP title.
If you're going alchemist, Internal Alchemist gets disease resistance/immunity as well as poison resistance/immunity. It's compatible with vivisectionist (though unfortunately not beastmorph) and a pretty good trade if you're not planning on using bombs or poison.
Though paladin 2-3/archaeologist bard is also a pretty good idea.
If 3rd party material is available, check out the Arbiter in the Thunderscape setting book- it's a sword/shield user that invests in Intelligence for strategies, which can be used to make both an excellent tank and scout. No spells, but probably one of the best no-magic, high-utility classes I've seen, and, other than the kite shield (basically part-way between a heavy shield and tower shield), nothing about the class is tied to the mechanics of Thunderscape, and could be easily ported over.
If 3pp is available, Path of War will literally allow them to do everything they want. Warder or Warlord to be tanky, toss a high score into INT for skills, and the maneuver system is basically spell slots with martial effects.
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I'd say that pretty much every caster in the game can fulfill all those roles... But arcane full-casters will need to make some very unorthodox choices. Druid are awesome, of course. So are Clerics, but they lack skill points.
Personally, I'd recommend an Inquisitor. Bards and Skalds also make pretty good frontliners.
Synthesist Summoner gets access to early movement modes (flying, swimming, etc.), natural armor out the wazoo plus heaps of Temp HP, and tons of useful spells. Probably the best at doing all 3 IMHO.
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I'll just let you all know I am sitting on a pretty good stat block to start off - 18, 18, 14, 12, 11, 9 aaaaand... Brace yourselves... We're getting 2(two) stat points per level :P
We're starting at level 1 of course.
I recommend bard for all your trying to do. They will not be the best at any one thing. However over all they can do a good job at all of them.
Human
Bard (After 7 levels of bard. Pick up 3 levels of paladin to make you immune to mummy curse. As stated before mommy's curse is a pain to deal with.)
Str 11
Dex 18
Con 12 (With two ability stats points per level put at least the first two in Con.)
Int 14
Wis 9
Cha 18
Traits: Trap Finder, Reactionary
Feet: Fast Leaner, Weapon Finesses
Skill Ranks Per level: 10
Starting HP: 10
Bardic Performance Rounds: 8
Starting Spells: Cure Light Wounds, Saving Finale
From their you can take fencing grace to get Dex to damage, or get a agile weapon. I recommend the feat over the weapon. I recommend picking up improved initiative as well. Going first for a caster/buffer is important. With the AP undead will be a big problem so don't expect to use spells offensive much. Your main role with casting will be buffing the party and your self for combat.
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I second Oracle with Charisma to everything! And use the Spirit Guide archetype on it with this wandering spirit.
Arcane Enlightenmnt will give you a good mix of sor/wizard spells for tanking.
And the Oracle gets 4+Int skill points so with an acceptable INT you should be able to do the scouting part as well. Maybe at high-level think about using a planar bound creature.
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First of all thanks for all the feedback people. I have a very busy weekend, so will try to acknowledge each one at a time.
@Jaunt: How is it that Vivisectionists 'rack up large hit point total'? :D
Also, regarding my action economy fixation, you don't think it is possible to pack everything up in a bundle, or not worth it?
It's called the Master Summoner. You have your summoned monsters tank, while your eidolon scouts, while you cast. Heck you can do all that in the same round.
There is a neat trick Alchemists can play to soak up lots more damage than they deserve to. The Familiar can drink a Potion of Shield Other, then re-merge with the Alchemist. Under the blessing of Shield Other, the Alchemist only takes half the damage he normally would. The Tumor takes the other half, and its damage is offset by its Fast Healing 5. Since Familiars have half the hit points of their masters, the familiar will die if the Alchemist quickly...
Or you could give your tumor the Protector familiar archetype, and then at lvl 5 it gains a constant Shield Other effect.
Guys, I am here and reading all that is being posted - simply it is the weekend and geeeez, you've got me a lot to digest, that's for sure :D
Just wanted to let you know the thread is not dead.
Maybe to start focusing things a tad more, I'll just add that I find certain arcane spells invaluable on a martial (and MUCH more so on a tank), and would love to have them on my arsenal - examples (even if I don't get all of them):
LvL 1
Shield
Enlarge Person
Long Arm
Expeditious Retreat
True Strike
LvL 2
Mirror Image
Blur
Invisibility
Protection from Arrows
See Invisibility
Spider Climb
LvL 3
Haste
Fly
Displacement
Heroism
Greater Magic Weapon
Vampiric Touch...
I know there are more, but this probably gives an idea of what I am aiming at :D
The reason I was looking at the possibility of using a chassis with a good action economy on casting (and I have played basically a fighter with the ability to zap wands, who had the opportunity to use Shield on himself almost in every battle thus far), is because in many situations there isn't a chance for buffing (and I wouldn't want to depend on that) - if I can Buff (with key spells from the above) efficiently, I am a better martial frontliner.
Would you agree?
P.S. Please keep in mind I am not disregarding any build ideas put forth - As a random example, I was fascinated with the Oracle ones (though the roguish skill options are VERY hard to put together from level 1, or 2 at the maximum), because it is hard to not like 9th level casting; and I have learned much regarding the Occult classes - so my thanks go to everyone for taking the time to put ideas forth - please keep them coming, and I will keep on reading them.
Of those spells, arcane bloodragers can rage and instantly gain the effects of Blur, protection from arrows, or spider climb at lvl 4, and by 8th they get one of those, on top of either haste or displacement. It's tough to get anything better action economy wise than simply raging to gain 2 spell effects at no cost beyond rage rounds.
The issue is still the rogueishness, and as mentioned before, Trap Finder is a campaign trait, so unless your DM allows it, you're kind of screwed there, plus there's the -ACP from medium armor.
I would say look at Inquisitor.
Their spell list has alot of arcane spells on it, as well as classic divine ones.
They also have a decent selection of Swift Action spells I believe.
Archetypes can let you use WIS in place of other stats, for social or stealth, for example.
And they get a Domain/"Inquisition" which adds more powers.
Judgement is a very flexible system that is action economy friendly, and Bane on top.
If it matters, I always called them "Divine Batman" from the beginning.
Maybe you weren't thinking Divine, but this one blends the edges with Arcane, and does it well.
Guys, I am here and reading all that is being posted - simply it is the weekend and geeeez, you've got me a lot to digest, that's for sure :D
Just wanted to let you know the thread is not dead.
Maybe to start focusing things a tad more, I'll just add that I find certain arcane spells invaluable on a martial (and MUCH more so on a tank), and would love to have them on my arsenal - examples (even if I don't get all of them):
LvL 1
Shield
Enlarge Person
Long Arm
Expeditious Retreat
True StrikeLvL 2
Mirror Image
Blur
Invisibility
Protection from Arrows
See Invisibility
Spider ClimbLvL 3
Haste
Fly
Displacement
Heroism
Greater Magic Weapon
Vampiric Touch...I know there are more, but this probably gives an idea of what I am aiming at :D
The reason I was looking at the possibility of using a chassis with a good action economy on casting (and I have played basically a fighter with the ability to zap wands, who had the opportunity to use Shield on himself almost in every battle thus far), is because in many situations there isn't a chance for buffing (and I wouldn't want to depend on that) - if I can Buff (with key spells from the above) efficiently, I am a better martial frontliner.
Would you agree?
P.S. Please keep in mind I am not disregarding any build ideas put forth - As a random example, I was fascinated with the Oracle ones (though the roguish skill options are VERY hard to put together from level 1, or 2 at the maximum), because it is hard to not like 9th level casting; and I have learned much regarding the Occult classes - so my thanks go to everyone for taking the time to put ideas forth - please keep them coming, and I will keep on reading them.
Spells, especially low level ones, aren't always the answer.
Enlarge Person runs into the problem of "gaining something without really gaining something." The trade-off for being Large sized is that you get -1 to Hit and AC and a -2 Dexterity, but gain +2 Strength and an Actual Size Bonus to your damage dice; you also pin a big target on your head (or the person you're affecting), and it requires an entire round to cast (like a Summon spell). So, you're actually losing 2 AC, 1 Reflex, a penalty to Acrobatics, Stealth, Disable Device, et. al., for an extra 1-2 damage, on average for rolling. It's actually worse, considering you said you want to be a tank type, and all of the penalties there for such a minor increase is a trap spell. Reduce Person would actually be much more beneficial, since you actually reverse the bonuses and penalties around. Lead Blades/Gravity Bow are also better choices.
Long Arm is quite niche, and is only useful for expanding existing reach if you're already using a reach weapon. In other words, Reach Build or bust. I mean, I'm not saying being able to threaten an extra 5 feet is bad, but it's not exactly winning any awards being able to do that standardly, either.
Expeditious Retreat is only great for getting out of dodge fast. Personally, this would be better cast on a squishy to save their life than on yourself, and you can't make that choice. In addition, most squishies would have this spell memorized, so having it for yourself kind of defeats the purpose.
True Strike is a big drain on your action economy, and if you're wanting to be a competent defensive martial, you would at least have a good enough to-hit to not warrant the need for a spell like this. That turn you spent casting this spell could've been used to attack, or full-attack, or some other, more useful action (Color Spray, as merely an example).
Blur is okay, but 20% concealment is kind of weak, considering the power of Mirror Images. There are definitely better defensive options out there, and this wouldn't be worth the spell points.
Invisibility has great utility, but expecting it to be good as a combat option would not be applicable. Greater Invisibility, on the other hand...is a 4th level spell.
Protection from Arrows is garbage. DR 10/Magic, when all it takes is a +1 Bow? By the time you start using this as a staple, it'll become obsolete.
See Invisibility is invaluable. There are creatures who have an Invisibility spell, Greater Invisibility, or some other form of similar concealment, and See Invisibility nullifies all of that. An extremely powerful option.
Spider Climb can have uses, but most of the time unless you have one-handed ranged options, or something to that effect, Spider Climb can be lame to use during combat. It can have some good out-of-combat utility, though.
Fly is very similar to Haste, though moreso in the mobility department. It also makes you able to contribute in melee without having to depend on your other party caster(s) to fix you up. Self-reliance is a really beautiful thing.
Displacement is Blur's bigger brother, and is much more valuable. Half of the attacks thrown against you do nothing! Yes please!
Heroism is a decent buff, but if you have a party Bard, you'd be wasting your time with this one.
Greater Magic Weapon is okay, but it requires caster level scaling for it to be truly effective. It's also only a temporary benefit; you might as well have +10 weapons enhanced by the time you decide a +5 Greater Magic Weapon CL spell is worthwhile.
Vampiric Touch deals decent damage, and can save you in a pinch, but it's not exactly a powerful spell for 3rd level. I would save it as an ace in the hole in case you bit off a little more than you could normally chew, but that's about all it's good for.
Only a handful of the spells you selected were actually good, and most of them were 3rd level spells, which requires a minimum character level of 5 in classes that are 1/2 BAB, and a minimum character level of 7 in classes that are 3/4 BAB.
That being said, there are other buff spells from the Divine spell list as well, such as Divine Favor, Sanctuary, Grace, Shield Other, Silence, Invisibility Purge, Prayer, and Blessing of Fervor (4th level, but still)...that are all really powerful too, almost quintessential. And if you're looking for easy self-buffing, especially during combat? Warpriest has your number. The only problem becomes "What about Skills?" Because Warpriest's 2 + Int per level for skills doesn't cut it, and their Class Skills are garbage.
It is as I've said; trying to be an all-around person, and be effective at each, is a very difficult, almost impossible task. I've been trying to do that as a Druid, trying to Summon, Blast, Melee, have some skills, etc. And it's damn hard to do all of that at once, especially when I have other party members who have more ranks and such in certain skills than I do, and have better spell lists, Full BAB, etc. It's daunting, but as long as I understand my limits and focus on what I can and should be doing, then I won't have any problems. The same applies here.
I would also suggest posting what the rest of your party plans to make, as it can help us determine what your niche should contain (and therefore can provide better optimization advice).
**EDIT** I also second Quandary's recommendation for Inquisitor. Good Skills, ability to substitute certain skills to be Wisdom based (as well as Class Skills), ability to shore up their 3/4 BAB, as well as have other goodies. Litanies provide great unique utility, and are Swift/Immediate Actions to cast.
Can you dip? A level of barbarian has skills and lots of hit points, more when raging, and the Berserker of the Society trait adds 3 rounds of rage per day. Plus a boost to speed, which can help with scouting. Maybe combine with magus for spell buffs or inquisitor for skills, judgment buffs, and spells. Luck and Travel are fun domains.
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Hey Gang,
I'm in the same Mummy's Mask campaign as Albion. I'm going to state a few key things for all of you to consider as we go forward.
THING 1: Albion's Stats
18, 18, 14, 12, 11, 9 before racial adjustments, with an additional 2 points per level comiing in. No stat can be raised above 20 before 4th.
This AP is allowing four traits!
Gang, you don't need to suggest SAD builds. Albion can totally make a MAD build work.
THIING 2: Races Available
No core races allowed but human.
Human, aasimar (incl. heritages), android, catfolk, changeling, dhampir (incl. heritages), ifrit, lashunta, oread, ratfolk, samsaran, suli, sylph, tiefling (incl. heritages), undine.
THING 3: Party Composition
The party already has:
- One Sorcerer, Undead Bloodline
- One Archer inquisitor
- One Witch
- One Monk (frontline)
- One Unspecified
- One Flame Oracle
THING 4: My Take
Albion, from where I'm sitting... We don't need more casting. A tanky alchemist or bloodrager would be fine if you want to play one, but we don't need a lot of spell support.
Regarding skills: with four traits you can get several class skills added to your list. We as a party could coordinate knowledges and share the skill burden.
What do we need, desperately? We need someone to do melee and someone to disable traps. Don't feel you have to do it all!
Do your favored melee build (alchemist could totally work with your stats) keep a reasonably high dex and our campaign trap finder trait, and we're good! Use your team, my friend. That's what we're there for.
Hmm
Urban Ranger 2-weapon or 2-handed weapon?
Tank, Trap, Scout, some spells, choice of pet or party buff (I'm guessing lots of undead, so this might actually be a good option!).
The thing with certain SAD builds (like the Oracle with CHA to most important stats) is they lose nothing by focusing on the stat which allows you to put that 18 into INT and have skills. Or ignore DEX to AC so you can pump CON or STR all the way without losing anything at all and gaining more when it matters. A +4 to hit and damage for a 3/4 class means combat is viable that much longer without investing spells into it, prolonging encounter effectiveness while leveling. A +4 to HP every level and +4 to FORT saves means less investment into shoring up weak points full casters typically have (being squishy).
SAD classes with good stat rolls will be even more effective at lower levels where stats actually matter most. By the time you level up and get gear, stats become minor bonuses late game. I don't threaten no people (I know I'm not) are suggest SAD builds due to being SAD, but because of how much more leeway it gives the character to do the other things the OP wants to do. Sure there might be another Oracle in the group, but the two wouldn't be completing for anything, so what does it matter? The Flame Oracle can do it's thing, and the SAD melee Oracle can mix it up in combat like the OP wanted to.
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I'll just let you all know I am sitting on a pretty good stat block to start off - 18, 18, 14, 12, 11, 9 aaaaand... Brace yourselves... We're getting 2(two) stat points per level :P
We're starting at level 1 of course.
I recommend bard for all your trying to do. They will not be the best at any one thing. However over all they can do a good job at all of them.
Human
Bard (After 7 levels of bard. Pick up 3 levels of paladin to make you immune to mummy curse. As stated before mommy's curse is a pain to deal with.)
Tell me about it. Mommy's curse is such a pain.
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Because the GM didn't want them. It's a chance to play something odd though!
Huh. Skylancer, that is an interesting point about going SAD to let him keep the int. I like alchemist for him for similar reasons, being an int--based build that would give him "spells" and good potential for damage output in a fight.
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Alright I've broken into on of the the computers at the NSA and run a complex matrix of data to be processed, factoring in the party's composition and the OP's desires, and the AP; this is what the computer spit out (bear with me):
The eye's instincts were correct from the beginning: Bloodrager
Hears why; The group's primary need is a tank and it is harder for a 3/4 bab class to fill fill that roll (there are times when you need that extra oomph, or the extra hit points) especially since no one else is full bab.
The secondary need is for a scout 4 skill points/level plus fast movement, and a campaign trait and you've got it covered.
The last need of the party is spells which works for the blood rager as he cant cast outside of the rage and most of his spells are offensive based (but the bloodrager has the important ones that the op likes).
There are a couple of classes I like better then this like Rangers for full BAB or Magus, Alchemist, Oracle, bard and warpriest for 3/4 bab they don't fulfill the Op's desires, trust me computers don't lie. ;)