I actually want to try and make a gunslinger type character. I can see a gnome being obsessed with this new kind of weapon, but...
...for the life of me I cannot see how the Gunslinger is a viable class. The guns are so expensive and so very limited that I just can't see how they're playable.
Especially with the way they're loaded. It stretches my suspension of disbelief that you can rapid reload a crossbow, and these muzzle loaders are even worse.
I can see how this gun design can be useful as a backup weapon, or as a highly situational weapon, but for the life of me I cannot see how the Gunslinger is suppose to be a practical class.
Any gunslinger fans able to show me what I'm missing?
Are you just looking for practical help making an effective PC with the Gunslinger class, or do you want a "sensible" explanation of how somebody would load and fire a muzzle loading gun 4-6 times in 6 seconds?
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If you want a "sensible" solution it's that even level 5 PCs are basically superheroes compared to level one commoners.
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If you want a "sensible" solution it's that even level 5 PCs are basically superheroes compared to level one commoners.
Yeah, and you start getting barbarians that can halo jump without a parachute and survive with minor injuries.
And at level one you get this one guy who can shoot fire from his fingers.
On the muzzle loaded guns being loaded so fast.. You seem to be suffering from an acute case of the "Guy at the Gym" syndrome, in which the mundane characters ability to stretch the physical realms of reality greatly causes nonacceptance within your mind matter.
However, on the flip side its highly acceptable for some eighty year old dude to be running around with a bunch of teenagers, mass murdering everything insight with fireballs shooting from his eyes, and lighting bolts from his arse... because that 80 year old dude is specifically stated to be running off of magic 2.0 systems.
But I'll tell you whats going on with this in the world of DnD. Magic permeates everything. I don't mean just the silly finger waggling and riddle speaking kind, but a much deeper type of magic. The magic of being a main character in the world, fates begin slowly bending rules and laws that supporting cast have to follow.
The gunslinger starts getting a point where he no longer reloads the ways of mortal men. Rather, he can start taking the power, creating a trail in the air and drop a bullet, then shove is gun down that trail taking in the bullet. All in one fell motion of managing to also pack his powder, as the fates make everything move perfectly for him for such a mundane task. Of course, this isn't the only way they can do it, but all of them share the same thing.. the mundane boring stuff just.. works for them. Thats why you never have the poop session where your adventures have to fight in line for the last bit of TP at the local inn. Fates! Or why they never have an eyelash fall in their eye in the middle of combat. Fates
The first thing is you do get a free firearm as soon as you start the class. Unless you are exceptionally unlucky that will last you, you will just need to get it enchanted. Hopefully your dm will throw in some firearm related loot for you.
If you don't want to reload super quick then don't use alchemical cartridges and just stick with ball and powder. The cost of ammo will slowly become more and more affordable since you are crafting it yourself.
The truly god awful machine gun style builds honestly involve some cheese that is completely optional, you don't have to go that crazy, but in a game where people can shoot fire from their hands at first level then complaining about how realistic it is to load a firearm that quickly is a moot point.
I'm not OP, but piggybacking on this, I'd personally be interested in hearing arguments for why Gunslinger is interesting or fun to play. For bonus points, compare/contrast with other popular ranged characters like a bow-based fighter or ranger.
I mean, a certain amount of this is obvious (the fighter has the most feats, ranger gets spells/skills/versatility, bow characters in general probably pour out more damage against bad-AC targets relative to the gunslinger and less vs. great-AC targets, etc., deeds are cool but are they as cool as more feats or spells?) but I'm sure a lot of it isn't, too.
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Mixmaster Sotenre is in the house,
Out another bullet, down one spouse.
Here to answer questions like a Reddit AMA,
What happens when roles gunplay?
Simply son, you're gonna have a blast
Utilizing firearms from old worlds past.
Listen as I pitch the Glock predecessor-
Maybe you'll be a flintlock possessor?
It ain't much of a record setter,
Contemporary, or anything much better.
Take aim at a close-by enemy,
Pull the trigger hitting their Touch AC.
BOOM Headshot! I'm on a roll!
Most firearms have a times four critical.
Just avoid a natural one,
You'll suffer a misfire and broken gun.
You've limited shots, carry plenty on the road.
Speaking of which it's time to reload.
Ammo's expensive, make the call-
Pellets, bullets, or cartridges alchemical?
Thanks for listening this hour,
Six Sending spells take too much power.
Brought to you by Sharpshooters of Shelyn
Promoting the holy arts of shellin'!
So I played a gun slinger that sat at like an 18 dex tops and took down a purple worm. with the help of an assassin squirrel... still bitter that f--er did damage but thats beside the point. So yeah. Kill purple worms. Be a gunslinger. (Specifically a musket master.)
I play gunslingers often in campaigns, and your guns aren't your only options for fighting so don't get hung up on that. Yes you aren't a front liner, but it's always fun to dance with your partners after you've unloaded on a few on their friends faces. Also, yes you start with only one gun, but like it was mentioned earlier, you have the ability to make your own for cheaper. Which brings me to another very important note that is oft times over looked. When you return to the city to spend your ill gotten gains, always inquire as to how long you are going to be in town between adventures. Given the time, take up your trusty little kit, and start making guns for profit. Hell take a few points in engraving and customize those bad boys. Maybe a few points in bluff and or diplomacy, and sell those fancy little hole punchers to some nobles.
First, build your own gun and it costs 1/2. A gnome with Master Tinker gets proficiency in any weapons they make. You only need a DC 20 craft for firearms.
Take all this together and toss in Rich Parents and you can start off with a Double-barreled pistol or musket without even being a gunslinger.
Now a gunslinger gets super cheap guns. They get a blunderbuss, musket, or pistol and only need 300 to upgrade it to a masterwork it! that's 1/3 the rich parents total...
So bottom line, "guns are so expensive and so very limited that I just can't see how they're playable"... not so much.
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Okay, so, you ever seen Equilibrium?
Remember Gunkata? That martial art where you're dueling hand-to-hand with guns in crazy-badass way that would make John Woo splooge?
The Gunslinger Can Do That
Yes, it takes either a dip into Swashbuckler (which is why Swashbuckler/Mysterious Stranger is hilarious), or using a feat to get Amateur Swashbuckler (I suggest multiclassing, because OH. MY. GOD. the Grit/Panache pool!), but, yeah, no, it's silly.
You're up in your opponent's face, unloading ungodly rounds of ammo into him.
Then it's his turn, and he makes a full attack.
Except, yeah, no. NO SALE.
You burn an AOO use - Opportune Parry & Riposte that first attack.
BLOCK WITH YO' GUN!
RELOAD!
FIRE IN HIS FACE AGAIN!
Sucker tries his second attack.
SON, WHAT - YOU GOT COMBAT REFLEXES FOR DAYS! THAT FOOL's GOIN' DOWN!
BLOCK WITH YO' GUN AGAIN!
RELOAD!
FIRE IN HIS FACE AGAIN! AGAIN!!!
You see where this is getting absolutely ridiculous? You see why the Johnny and Spike in me are just having freakin' KITTENS?
The level of insane, over-the-top badassery you can get away with as a Gunslinger is a reason to play it.
Meanwhile, none of this is going to obsolete casters, and it is VERY expensive to have a gun & ammo, so there is a balance to this.
Oh, and, by the way, a Ranger could also do this nonsense with a bow, so don't think this is just a gun thing - Gunslinger just lets you get more Grit/Panache is all.
It stretches my suspension of disbelief that you can rapid reload a crossbow
Wut?
...It stretches my suspension of disbelief...
Wizards. If you can suspend your disbelief enough that a grumpy old man can basically shatter the world with invisible forces that he harnesses with wiggling his fingers around while throwing a pinch of bat poop, why can you not do the same for someone who so intensely practices with a single weapon, that he's figured out a way to reload said weapon real fast.
That being said, you have to make up your mind. Are you not getting gunslinger because it bothers your idea of a fantasy setting, or is it because you don't see how it works in terms of mechanics? If it's the former, we can't help you. If it's the latter, we can.
Yes, suspension of disbelief.
And no, just because I accept magic doesn't mean that SoD goes out the window. The game at least tries to be internally consistent. Magic does crazy things because, well, magic. Things that don't use magic still fall under the purview of reality though, more or less.
But, even ignoring that, even with Rapid Reload, you're only bring reloading down to a move action on a 1h gun, so you still only get one shot per round. 2h at best gets it down to a standard action so you're only firing your gun every other round, and wasting half the fight actively reloading.
So you can't full attack with a gun, unless you get a pepperbox/revolver and then you get one full attack per combat with it. And they're too expensive (even if you make your own) to simply keep half a dozen on you to quickdraw.
In real life, a good solid hit from a firearm will put you down, but the damage on these guns is too low to actually kill anything over lvl 2 or so in a single hit.
So how exactly are you supposed to use the class? Even with Rapid Reload you only get a single 1d8 attack a round, and if you're lucky you're far enough away to make it as a touch attack at -2.
I just don't see how an entire class can successfully be built around never getting more than one attack a round. Especially if you go for a 2 hander where you only get to attack every other round.
Thats my problem, really. How in the world does a Gunslinger stay competitive against a bow user? Or even a sling user for that matter?
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For damage - starting at 5th level they get their dex to damage. That's pretty huge - and it makes gunslingers less MAD than archers as they can dump strength.
While the damage is a bit low for the first four levels - those tend to be the levels where most characters have the most trouble hitting things - so the touch attacks add much to DPR. Though I know many gunslingers will have a bow for less important fights early on so as to not use up so many expensive bullets.
Yes, suspension of disbelief.
The same suspension of disbelief that breaks when Gandalf (level 20 Wizard) over there gets hit with a two handed greatsword by Conan (level 1 Barbarian) and isn't brought down by the first, second, third or even the fourth swing even though Gandalf isn't TRYING to dodge?
Or the suspension of disbelief that breaks when a high level martial character can swing a warhammer the size of a child about four times in a matter of six second and accurately strike with each one whilst wearing full plate armor?
Or the fact that a monk can *continues on*
It's a game. People do impossible things all the time. Overload the people with realism and they probably wouldn't play it. Furthermore if you are complaining about a solid hit with a firearm in real life being able to put a person down, I could imagine your surprise when you realized that well... none of the weapons in the game can do that at higher levels. Try having an angry person bring down a katana on you in real life compared to the game. Very different experiences.
I'll leave the explaining the crunch to someone else who has actually played the class. Needless to say, I've seen things explode from the mere sight of a mid level gunslinger.
EDIT: Also, I'm confused as to what room you give detractors from your point of view. If they find a way to make a gunslinger have more than two attacks per round (starting at level 15 if you only look at BAB and not feats or extra weapons, so WAY late in the game) you will dislike it since it breaks your SoD. If they can't find a way, then you complain about it not doing enough damage (which is not true AT ALL).
But, even ignoring that, even with Rapid Reload, you're only bring reloading down to a move action on a 1h gun, so you still only get one shot per round. 2h at best gets it down to a standard action so you're only firing your gun every other round, and wasting half the fight actively reloading.
So you can't full attack with a gun, unless you get a pepperbox/revolver and then you get one full attack per combat with it. And they're too expensive (even if you make your own) to simply keep half a dozen on you to quickdraw.
In real life, a good solid hit from a firearm will put you down, but the damage on these guns is too low to actually kill anything over lvl 2 or so in a single hit.
So how exactly are you supposed to use the class? Even with Rapid Reload you only get a single 1d8 attack a round, and if you're lucky you're far enough away to make it as a touch attack at -2.
I just don't see how an entire class can successfully be built around never getting more than one attack a round. Especially if you go for a 2 hander where you only get to attack every other round.
Thats my problem, really. How in the world does a Gunslinger stay competitive against a bow user? Or even a sling user for that matter?
You're missing 2 further rules.
1) Alchemical Cartridges reduce reloading times down from move action to free action once you have the rapid reload feat;2) Musket Master archetype gets 'fast muskets' at level 3, reducing 2 handed firearm reloading times down to the same as one handed, thereby allowing alchemical cartridges + rapid reload to get you the same free action reloading times.
So, yes you can get full round attacks off. You can also double your output by using a double-barrelled gun and annoying everyone else. You can also go with the uber-cheesy two pistol wielding route, with a prehensile tail (to still have a free hand to be able to reload) and get ridiculous numbers of shots per round. And at 11th level the Pistolero archetype gets to pick 'Up Close & Deadly' as their Signature Deed increasing their damage even more.
In real life, a good solid hit from a firearm will put you down, but the damage on these guns is too low to actually kill anything over lvl 2 or so in a single hit.
I think you can replace gun with almost any deadly weapon and it works out the same. Is someone tapdancing after a solid scythe hit? Greatsword? Heck, I can shoot a 2nd level barbarian with a solid hit with a light ballista and he has a good chance of not being 'put down'. Guns seem pretty LOW on the 'suspension of disbelief' list.
As far as loading... it'd strain my suspension of disbelief more if I thought about reloading a heavy crossbow as a free action. I've seen people quickly load that kind of gun. There's only so fast you can crank...
Wait, wait, wait... you're complaining about the gunslinger being underpowered?
Pistols can be reloaded as a free action from level 1 with rapid reload and alchemical cartridges. Double-barreled pistols and muskets also allow multiple shots without reloading. You get Dex-to-damage at level 5, and by then you'll probably be hitting almost everything you fire at. Damage reduction can be easily dealt with by packing bullets made of particular metals, or the Clustered Shots feat or deadly shot deed.
The most common complaint about gunslingers is that they are too powerful, not vice-versa.
HP can be generalized out to be luck, you don't get twice as much meat at level 2, you're simply, in general, harder to kill.
Wait, wait, wait... you're complaining about the gunslinger being underpowered?
Pistols can be reloaded as a free action from level 1 with rapid reload and alchemical cartridges. Double-barreled pistols and muskets also allow multiple shots without reloading. You get Dex-to-damage at level 5, and by then you'll probably be hitting almost everything you fire at. Damage reduction can be easily dealt with by packing bullets made of particular metals, or the Clustered Shots feat or deadly shot deed.
The most common complaint about gunslingers is that they are too powerful, not vice-versa.
This seems like it's really glossing over all the drawbacks. Weapon cost/availability, ammo cost/availability, short range, misfires, etc.
Wait, wait, wait... you're complaining about the gunslinger being underpowered?
Pistols can be reloaded as a free action from level 1 with rapid reload and alchemical cartridges. Double-barreled pistols and muskets also allow multiple shots without reloading. You get Dex-to-damage at level 5, and by then you'll probably be hitting almost everything you fire at. Damage reduction can be easily dealt with by packing bullets made of particular metals, or the Clustered Shots feat or deadly shot deed.
The most common complaint about gunslingers is that they are too powerful, not vice-versa.
I have a Gunslinger character that dual-wields and can free-action reload Double Barrel Pistols, can Parry & Riposte with her guns, is a master spy, has THE highest Charisma in the party, and out-damages the party Barbarian.
She's also a lv2 Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger, lv2 Weapon Master Fighter, lv2 Cleaner Slayer, lv2 Skirmisher Urban Ranger, and a lv4 Swashbuckler.
So, yeah, no - The Gunslinger isn't broken. It's underpowered compared to a number of melee martial classes like the Barbarian, and it's outclassed as a ranged class by the Zen Archer and the base Ranger.
It's fun, but by itself isn't overpowered in the least.
I wouldn't be able to do all this nonsense if I didn't double-dip into FIVE different classes, and, let's face it, I TOTALLY could have dipped into a sixth class instead of just continuing through Swashbuckler to 4 (except I REALLY wanted those lv3 abilities).
The Gunslinger, like the Swashbuckler, is a DAMN great class to dip into, but it's hardly worth taking to level 20 by itself if all you care about is damage output.
This seems like it's really glossing over all the drawbacks. Weapon cost/availability, ammo cost/availability, short range, misfires, etc.Wait, wait, wait... you're complaining about the gunslinger being underpowered?
Pistols can be reloaded as a free action from level 1 with rapid reload and alchemical cartridges. Double-barreled pistols and muskets also allow multiple shots without reloading. You get Dex-to-damage at level 5, and by then you'll probably be hitting almost everything you fire at. Damage reduction can be easily dealt with by packing bullets made of particular metals, or the Clustered Shots feat or deadly shot deed.
The most common complaint about gunslingers is that they are too powerful, not vice-versa.
the first 2 - you make your own stuff
the last 2, you use grit to ignore it...
I play a gunslinger in a Way of the Wicked campaign.
Firstly, I'd say that any character -regardless- of class needs to have personality, personal habits, quirks, oddities, beliefs ... the complete package ... before you even get to the "character class"-aspect of things. That's what should make the character interesting. The class is just gravy anyway.
Next, I'm playing a musket master. With a rifled musket, that's 1d12 damage, plus dex bonus at level 5. In this case, that means that even if I picked up a standard firearm of its type and shot, I'd have a max damage of 17. That's without adding all manner of madness to it through enchantments. A rifled musket is also a X4 crit modifier ... alright, you need to roll a 20 to get that, but still ... it's a X4.
Plus I get to sit back at a comfortable distance with nice, big, beefy meat-shields between me and the enemy. Well, that WOULD be the case if it wasn't for the fact that the tank in the group is a glass cannon, and my particular gunslinger likes taking point, but that's where all those lovely HP come into play. You can actually take a *bleep*load of damage.
Of course, my GM has been incredibly nice and has dropped the most ludicrously powerful gun in my lap (which probably means I'm set for the remainder of the campaign), but at this time, who does the most damage is a tossup between my gunslinger, and the tiefling warrior with 20+ strength and a tetsubo counting as a large weapon.
If your problem lies with suspension of disbelief, then there's not much to be done. You'll have to, or you'll constantly berate yourself for playing a character that isn't realistic. The way I tend to look at it, is to think of alchemical charges as primitive rimfire-cartridges.
In the end, all I need to do is look at the rest of the party and go:
"yeah ... that one over there is part demon with arms like Popeye the Sailorman and the ability to shatter a castle gate in one blow (I've seen it happen). That one over there is part demon too and can summon up magical flames to burn dozens of men to cinders in seconds. That one over there calls upon the father of all evil, Asmodeus, to summon hellhounds and to raise the living dead to fight for him. That one over there puts Jeffrey Dahmer to shame by wearing the cut-off faces of his fallen enemies over his own features and their tongues in a necklace, and that last one over there wants to invent the Golarion equivalent of mustard gas by using alchemy and she's -probably- going to succeed.
Never mind the fact that I can reload my muzzle loader four or five times in six seconds.
I'm the NORMAL one around here!!"
So much stuff in the game makes no real sense, and this is what snaps your suspenders of disbelief? People fire bows and swing swords waaaaaaay too fast, too. The square-cube law isn't even a thing.
The unfortunate problem with the gunslinger, is that if using "early firearms" you will need to be very close to get the most bang for your buck, and many of the firearms are actually short range. This is fine if you are crawling around dungeons and castles and up close, but really long range opponents like longbow using archers, can take you to pieces. Likewise really fast moving skirmishers, that hit and move beyond your range can be a headache. Maybe your dm wouldn't challenge you with these adversaries, if you are lucky.
Having said that, I despise fast-loading early firearms in my setting and consider them a hideous blot on fantasy. No way.
So much stuff in the game makes no real sense, and this is what snaps your suspenders of disbelief? People fire bows and swing swords waaaaaaay too fast, too. The square-cube law isn't even a thing.
Pfft, after two months of archery, I could draw, knock and shoot two arrows accurately in under six seconds and I'm still a noob. Bows can be shot very fast, the history of steppe peoples tells us this, and martial artists have been able to swiftly do long devastating combinations since time immemorial.
However, early gunpowder weapons simply could not be loaded in the PF times. I've observed arquebusiers (so much smoke!) loading in haste. The fast loading times are not close to what is possible with such tools.
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That's not what that says. Deadly Aim specifically says "The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage." The line you quoted allows you to use Deadly Aim with firearms even though it normally doesn't work on touch attacks, it does not stop the attack from being a touch attack.Something I noticed yesterday:
"but this type of attack is not considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats and abilities such as Deadly Aim."
If you use Deadly Aim with guns, those attacks are no longer touch attacks.
Which makes Deadly Aim far better for gunslingers far better than for archers since, making touch attacks, accuracy is rarely an issue. So sacrificing a bit of extra unneeded accuracy for more damage is nearly entirely beneficial. Deadly Aim with a bow is situational.
This seems like it's really glossing over all the drawbacks. Weapon cost/availability, ammo cost/availability, short range, misfires, etc.the first 2 - you make your own stuff
the last 2, you use grit to ignore it...
The first two - cheaper still doesn't mean cheap.
The second two - Grit isn't an infinite resource. Especially if you're set up for maximum fire speed misfires come up a lot.
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This seems like it's really glossing over all the drawbacks. Weapon cost/availability, ammo cost/availability, short range, misfires, etc.the first 2 - you make your own stuff
the last 2, you use grit to ignore it...The first two - cheaper still doesn't mean cheap.
The second two - Grit isn't an infinite resource. Especially if you're set up for maximum fire speed misfires come up a lot.
The cost is only an issue for the first few levels. Later it becomes relatively insignificant.
Short range rarely comes up - and they're only that short ranged if you go for dual wielding pistols - the most OP version. There should be a disadvantage.
And misfires can sometimes slow down your firing rate for a round. What - a real disadvantage for going after touch AC? :P
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Sure, it is unrealistic that dragons can fly. It is unrealistic that Wizards can use magic spells. Some would say it is unrealistic that there are deities who intervene in the world. All of those things are on theme for a swords and sorcery world though.
I think that the super fast reloading of muzzle loaders not only seems a little silly but kind of breaks the traditional theme of early guns being slow but deadly. For good or ill the decision was made to allow faster reloads so that guns could be playable. This isn't terribly different from the faster than expected reloading of crossbows, just more pronounced. I would have rather seen a mechanic for guns more like Mythic Vital Strike to let you pool a lot of damage into one big shot. The Gunslinger's Dead Shot deed seems like an attempt at that, but it is too expensive to use and not effective enough. I don't think that "but there's magic" is a great reason to throw verisimilitude out the window, but I guess that "it has to be playable" must be accepted on some level. I just wish it had been done a little differently.
I'm sure most folks on the boards will disagree with my take on this due to reasons like "but there's magic!", "imagine it is anime!", and "the PCs are superheroes!" Such matters of taste can't easily be solved with debate, so I guess I should move on to the mechanical aspects of the Gunslinger which might make it worth playing. First I'll give the OP a more detailed "excuse" why such fast reloading might seem more in theme if you "re-skinned" it though.
The OP mentioned a Gnome. Imagine that when the Gnome crafts alchemical cartridges he is actually doing something like:
- making belted ammunition of some sort
- customizing his gun with special vacuum tubes to suck in the powder and ammo
- crafting little robotic things to assist with rapid reloading
As for the mechanical aspect of the class, with the proper feats and alchemical cartridges you can reload as a free action. This means that you definitely can full attack with a firearm, including stuff like Rapid Shot, Haste, and potentially TWF. With the current rules for double barreled guns you could actually make a full attack with twice the usual number of attacks. I personally think that rule should be changed, but if you're looking for reasons the Gunslinger isn't underpowered I'd say that doubling your attacks is actually very powerful. I'd even call it "overpowered".
Most monsters have a low touch AC. Attacking touch AC is very powerful in a typical game or especially in pre-fab adventures like an AP where the DM isn't as likely to suddenly start running all monsters with Monk levels who live in foggy locations defended by casters with Wind Wall. You also get a free gun at 1st level (significant financial incentive), and at the worst you're a high BAB character with 4 skill points per level who is proficient with all martial weapons. You also get a Dodge bonus to AC when you're wearing light or no armor. Some of the deeds you can get are pretty powerful like the ability to knock a foe prone without any CMB check or saving throw. Sure, it is situational, but when there's a melee goon who can't fly it could be a very nice power to keep him away from you and your allies.
The Pistolero and Musketeer archetypes are probably the best since they eventually get to ignore misfire chance completely. Before you reach that point I'd imagine that there could be some advantages to using Clustered Shots and having Quick Draw available. Even if you stick to single barreled guns you should be able to put plenty of lead in the air.
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1.1g per shot isn't exactly going to break the bank at any level. If you're looking for optimization, there's lots of threads and guides out there already.
The gunslinger is a ranged damage class. The downside over archery is range, which is easily overcome with a variety of shenanigans you can get mid levels. The upside is dex to damage and touch attacks. The funny thing with the gunslinger is at low levels you face goblins and kobolds and stuff with high touch AC due to being small and dexterous. As you go up in level, touch AC goes down as you fight larger opponents. So by level 10 as a gunslinger you always deadly aim, always fight defensively, and whatever else you can do to give yourself to hit penalties and you still only miss on a 1.
If the only thing that bothers you is suspension of disbelief then imagine something different. You're a crazy gnome inventor? Well then your gun has a deluxe reloading mechanism, specially designed by yours truly. If you don't like their description, make up your own. You could reskin guns as the deadly gnomish hamsterapult. A belt fed gatling gun that launches hamsters at high velocities who chew through their target on impact with their sharp pointy teeth. The numbers are just game mechanics, the description is up to your imagination. Make it something that works for you.
@boring7 - Your Gunslinger sounds kind of like Captain Kirk to me. Anyhow, I felt like providing some feedback...
If the DM allows advanced firearms you could actually play a cowboy with a revolver. You'd just be limited to a rate of fire half that of somebody with a double barreled muzzle loading pistol.
I believe that the early paper cartridges which the alchemical cartridges in the game are likely inspired by were generally bitten open before use. That probably doesn't make a difference in game terms, but it might give folks an impression of what early firearm use looked like.
As for guys getting up off the floor to win a fight, I'll link to a video of Chieck Kongo vs Pat Barry
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I believe that the early paper cartridges which the alchemical cartridges in the game are likely inspired by were generally bitten open before use. That probably doesn't make a difference in game terms, but it might give folks an impression of what early firearm use looked like.
Actually - there was a rebellion in India against the British due to needing to bite open the paper as part of reloading. This is because the paper cartriges were greased to make them go down the gun barrels more easily.
The problem? The grease was either beef or pork grease. And the British's local troops were primarily either Hindi or Muslim, and therefore don't eat beef or pork respectively.
After a rather small rebellion and the British figured out what the problem was - I believe they switched to using a vegetable oil for the local troops' cartridges in India.
So much stuff in the game makes no real sense, and this is what snaps your suspenders of disbelief? People fire bows and swing swords waaaaaaay too fast, too. The square-cube law isn't even a thing.Pfft, after two months of archery, I could draw, knock and shoot two arrows accurately in under six seconds and I'm still a noob. Bows can be shot very fast, the history of steppe peoples tells us this, and martial artists have been able to swiftly do long devastating combinations since time immemorial.
However, early gunpowder weapons simply could not be loaded in the PF times. I've observed arquebusiers (so much smoke!) loading in haste. The fast loading times are not close to what is possible with such tools.
Accurately at independently moving targets while someone is tryin to kill you? Because there is a massive difference between 2 shots at a stationary target on a range and in the middle of a fight at moving targets that want your life.
Early fire arms in pathfinder are not arquebusiers, they are muskets, probably late era flintlocks. Well trained troops could fire those about 3 times a minute. Add in alchemical cartridges and the fact that pathfinder characters are superhuman by level 6 and the rate at which a pathfinder gunslinger can fire a gun is no more redicululous then the barbarian who can fall 500ft head first and only be minorly inconvenienced.
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The unfortunate problem with the gunslinger, is that if using "early firearms" you will need to be very close to get the most bang for your buck, and many of the firearms are actually short range. This is fine if you are crawling around dungeons and castles and up close, but really long range opponents like longbow using archers, can take you to pieces. Likewise really fast moving skirmishers, that hit and move beyond your range can be a headache. Maybe your dm wouldn't challenge you with these adversaries, if you are lucky.
Having said that, I despise fast-loading early firearms in my setting and consider them a hideous blot on fantasy. No way.
In your game, I'd totally go for my Iron Man wizard/fighter build.
As in, a wizard who fashions the iron man suit out of magic and a folding platemail. Cause well. Yeah.
Anycase, one big thing I've found with a gunslinger is if you can get an ally to enchant a bullet with the Named Bullet spell, and you're a mysterious stranger with a musket and use that in conjunction with Deadshot, you can pop off a rather HUGE amount of damage.
They shoot at touch AC basically at will, they're pretty much the most reliably hitting martial class in existence. They also get a ranged no check disarm and ranged no check trip at level 7