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So I got on a role with some no standard fantasy races. Though there are some obvious parallels that happen I wanted to create something entirely new. So I tried to make replacements for all the core races. So I guess this is Deathnought's additional races. There is more lore to most of them then what I have posted here. I included some lore/inspiration in the spoiler tabs so this post isn't thirty miles long. I will continue to work on them and hopefully add some racial feat, alternate racial traits, and racial archetypes. And if you have any suggestions please do, I hope compile this into a campaign setting at some point.

Name: Kursan’Tan
Type (Subtype): Humanoid (Kursan’Tan)
Size/Speed: Medium/30ft
Racial ability: Specialized
+2 Str +2 Con -2 Dex
Language: Xenophobic: Kah’Shyyr
Common
Draconic
Avavian
Sylvan
Racial Abilities:
Climb
Ferocity
Claws
Frenzy
Low Light Vision

:
I took a lot of inspiration from Bigfoot and Wookies on these guys. I wanted a race that was strong and hard to bring down. The would live in the woods and were constantly at fighting or enslaved by the rest of the world. They have a good relationship with the Okari as the Kursan’Tan rely on trees for building materials and for shelter. They are warriors with little interest in magic though it does exist. They have a code of honor that forbids the use of claws during combat (like Wookie Madclaws). This sort of Exile would be a great way to get the individuals out on adventures and away from the pretty isolationist nature of the Kursan’Tan.

Name: Eleehan
Type (Subtype): Humanoid (Eleehan)
Size/Size: Medium/30ft
Racial ability: Standard
+2 Dex +2 Cha -2 Int
Language: Standard
Racial Abilities:
Powerful Swimmer
Water Child
Weapon Familiarity (Trident and Net)
Hold Breath
Low Light Vision

:
These are based on merfolk I saw on a Discovery Channel “documentary” and the Woioko from Starfinder. They are humanoids who evolved from dolphin like creatures. They split their time on land and sea as land is safe for the young but are largely adapted to water still. I am planning on having or adding some alternate racial traits to indicate more Deepborn who are adapted almost entirely to water and Marshborn which are more geared toward land. They are a very agreeable race and like conversing with other races. They are still evolving into a land based sentient species so they are a little slow in the thinky bits.

Name: Okari
Type (Subtype): Humanoid (Plant)
Size/Speed: Medium/20ft
Racial ability: Specialized
+2 Int +2 Wis -2 Dex
Language:
Standard
Racial Abilities:
Low Light Vision
Natural Armor +1
Shards of The Past
Light Dependent
Hydrated Vitality

:
I wanted some kind of non fey plant species. They are very conservative and are very plodding kind of like Ents from LotR but smaller. They enjoy scholarship and magic as the priorities within their society. They also have a strong connection to the dead as seeds for these guys are planted on the graves of other sentient species. The seed pulls traits from the body of the deceased and from the parents genetics. They have similar reproductive systems to mammals and when they die a tree will generally grow and house the spirit of the deceased Okari.

Name: Avnavi
Type (Subtype): Humanoid (Avnavi)
Size/Speed: Medium/30ft
Racial ability: Standard
+2 Dex +2 Int -2 Wis
Language: Standard
Racial Abilities:
Desert Runner
Sword Training
Scent
Skill Bonus: Survival

:
I wanted to make some kind of Elf type race that was more violent and hardier and flip the tables more. They live in the desert and have red skin. They also an extra set of canines that is indicative of their largely meat diet. They also like swords. Like a lot. Every Avnavi that stay with in one of their many desert strong holds has to join the military in someway. Once their training is complete they often forge their own swords. They warred over land with the Kursan’Tan long ago and would sometimes kidnap them to keep as slaves for the mines that Avnavian towns are often built around. In a peace treaty some thousand years ago the Avnavi gave up the practice and start using bred for purpose mining beatles. Animosity still exists.

Name: Vorrill
Type (Subtype): Humanoid (Vorrill; Human)
Size/Speed: Medium/30ft
Racial ability: Human
+2 Any Stat
Language:
Standard
Racial Abilities:
Cave Dweller
Integrated
Strong Voice - Once Per Day a Vorrill can use a voice based Sonic. It does 1d6 Sonic Damage and upon failing a Fort Save (10 + Half the character level rounded down + Con mod) those caught in the area of effect will be deafened for 1d4 rounds. Additionally This power can be used to increase the range of the Vorrill’s tremorsense by 30ft.
Tremorsense 30ft
Low Light Vision

:
I liked the idea of grey skinned humans for some reason. And from that I started to think about culture and why they would have grey skin and I thought of Caves. I’m not entirely sure where I got the idea of for strong voice other than that their culture is based primarily around singing. Most if not all Vorrill have near perfect pitch by the time they reach adulthood. But yeah they are grey skinned humans who have black white or red hair. Eye colors are Yellow, Red, And Violet. They stand about two inches taller than average humans.

Name: Kith Mal
Type (Subtype): Humanoid (Kith)
Size/Speed: Small/30ft
Racial ability: Standard
+2 Dex +2 Cha -2
Language: Standard
Racial Abilities:
Cat’s Luck
Envoy
Gliding Wings
Prehensile Tail
Curiosity
Darkvision

:
I wanted a curious and personable race who could easily step into the traveling merchant or comic relief type character. They are similar to Khajiit of the Elder Scrolls world in that they don’t quite get the idea of personal property. Also I was writing down Ideas for races and one was just Cat Bird and thats what the Kith Mal originated out of. They are more like flying squirrels than anything else. These guys and the Gehll are probably the least thought out. Though I do like the idea of them being one of many breeds of kith that exist. They happen to have gained sentience though can reproduce with other breeds but that is frowned up on. Though like actual incest is fine.

Name: Gehll
Type (Subtype): Humanoid (Reptilian)
Size/Speed: Small/30ft
Racial ability: Standard
+2 Con +2 Int -2 Cha
Language: Standard
Racial Abilities:
Sticky Tongue
All Around Vision
Sneaky

:
They are chameleon people. They don’t like to talk to people and would rather hide than fight. I haven’t developed much more than that.

**Disclaimer.** These races equal out to be around 11-12 RP in general. making them slightly stronger than their standard race counter parts. I can provide the points if I need to. This is the mostly a rough draft than anything else and I wanted some community help with this. I also have a friend who will likely illustrate these races for me.


So I got on a role with some no standard fantasy races. Though there are some obvious parallels that happen I wanted to create something entirely new. So I tried to make replacements for all the core races. So I guess this is Deathnought's additional races. There is more lore to most of them then what I have posted here. I included some lore/inspiration in the spoiler tabs so this post isn't thirty miles long. I will continue to work on them and hopefully add some racial feat, alternate racial traits, and racial archetypes. And if you have any suggestions please do, I hope compile this into a campaign setting at some point.

Name: Kursan’Tan
Type (Subtype): Humanoid (Kursan’Tan)
Size/Speed: Medium/30ft
Racial ability: Specialized
+2 Str +2 Con -2 Dex
Language: Xenophobic: Kah’Shyyr
Common
Draconic
Avavian
Sylvan
Racial Abilities:
Climb
Ferocity
Claws
Frenzy
Low Light Vision

:
I took a lot of inspiration from Bigfoot and Wookies on these guys. I wanted a race that was strong and hard to bring down. The would live in the woods and were constantly at fighting or enslaved by the rest of the world. They have a good relationship with the Okari as the Kursan’Tan rely on trees for building materials and for shelter. They are warriors with little interest in magic though it does exist. They have a code of honor that forbids the use of claws during combat (like Wookie Madclaws). This sort of Exile would be a great way to get the individuals out on adventures and away from the pretty isolationist nature of the Kursan’Tan.

Name: Eleehan
Type (Subtype): Humanoid (Eleehan)
Size/Size: Medium/30ft
Racial ability: Standard
+2 Dex +2 Cha -2 Int
Language: Standard
Racial Abilities:
Powerful Swimmer
Water Child
Weapon Familiarity (Trident and Net)
Hold Breath
Low Light Vision

:
These are based on merfolk I saw on a Discovery Channel “documentary” and the Woioko from Starfinder. They are humanoids who evolved from dolphin like creatures. They split their time on land and sea as land is safe for the young but are largely adapted to water still. I am planning on having or adding some alternate racial traits to indicate more Deepborn who are adapted almost entirely to water and Marshborn which are more geared toward land. They are a very agreeable race and like conversing with other races. They are still evolving into a land based sentient species so they are a little slow in the thinky bits.

Name: Okari
Type (Subtype): Humanoid (Plant)
Size/Speed: Medium/20ft
Racial ability: Specialized
+2 Int +2 Wis -2 Dex
Language:
Standard
Racial Abilities:
Low Light Vision
Natural Armor +1
Shards of The Past
Light Dependent
Hydrated Vitality

:
I wanted some kind of non fey plant species. They are very conservative and are very plodding kind of like Ents from LotR but smaller. They enjoy scholarship and magic as the priorities within their society. They also have a strong connection to the dead as seeds for these guys are planted on the graves of other sentient species. The seed pulls traits from the body of the deceased and from the parents genetics. They have similar reproductive systems to mammals and when they die a tree will generally grow and house the spirit of the deceased Okari.

Name: Avnavi
Type (Subtype): Humanoid (Avnavi)
Size/Speed: Medium/30ft
Racial ability: Standard
+2 Dex +2 Int -2 Wis
Language: Standard
Racial Abilities:
Desert Runner
Sword Training
Scent
Skill Bonus: Survival

:
I wanted to make some kind of Elf type race that was more violent and hardier and flip the tables more. They live in the desert and have red skin. They also an extra set of canines that is indicative of their largely meat diet. They also like swords. Like a lot. Every Avnavi that stay with in one of their many desert strong holds has to join the military in someway. Once their training is complete they often forge their own swords. They warred over land with the Kursan’Tan long ago and would sometimes kidnap them to keep as slaves for the mines that Avnavian towns are often built around. In a peace treaty some thousand years ago the Avnavi gave up the practice and start using bred for purpose mining beatles. Animosity still exists.

Name: Vorrill
Type (Subtype): Humanoid (Vorrill; Human)
Size/Speed: Medium/30ft
Racial ability: Human
+2 Any Stat
Language:
Standard
Racial Abilities:
Cave Dweller
Integrated
Strong Voice - Once Per Day a Vorrill can use a voice based Sonic. It does 1d6 Sonic Damage and upon failing a Fort Save (10 + Half the character level rounded down + Con mod) those caught in the area of effect will be deafened for 1d4 rounds. Additionally This power can be used to increase the range of the Vorrill’s tremorsense by 30ft.
Tremorsense 30ft
Low Light Vision

:
I liked the idea of grey skinned humans for some reason. And from that I started to think about culture and why they would have grey skin and I thought of Caves. I’m not entirely sure where I got the idea of for strong voice other than that their culture is based primarily around singing. Most if not all Vorrill have near perfect pitch by the time they reach adulthood. But yeah they are grey skinned humans who have black white or red hair. Eye colors are Yellow, Red, And Violet. They stand about two inches taller than average humans.

Name: Kith Mal
Type (Subtype): Humanoid (Kith)
Size/Speed: Small/30ft
Racial ability: Standard
+2 Dex +2 Cha -2
Language: Standard
Racial Abilities:
Cat’s Luck
Envoy
Gliding Wings
Prehensile Tail
Curiosity
Darkvision

:
I wanted a curious and personable race who could easily step into the traveling merchant or comic relief type character. They are similar to Khajiit of the Elder Scrolls world in that they don’t quite get the idea of personal property. Also I was writing down Ideas for races and one was just Cat Bird and thats what the Kith Mal originated out of. They are more like flying squirrels than anything else. These guys and the Gehll are probably the least thought out. Though I do like the idea of them being one of many breeds of kith that exist. They happen to have gained sentience though can reproduce with other breeds but that is frowned up on. Though like actual incest is fine.

Name: Gehll
Type (Subtype): Humanoid (Reptilian)
Size/Speed: Small/30ft
Racial ability: Standard
+2 Con +2 Int -2 Cha
Language: Standard
Racial Abilities:
Sticky Tongue
All Around Vision
Sneaky

:
They are chameleon people. They don’t like to talk to people and would rather hide than fight. I haven’t developed much more than that.

**Disclaimer.** These races equal out to be around 11-12 RP in general. making them slightly stronger than their standard race counter parts. I can provide the points if I need to. This is the mostly a rough draft than anything else and I wanted some community help with this. I also have a friend who will likely illustrate these races for me.


avr wrote:
If ideally you'd want something drawing from magus and psychic then either the mindblade magus archetype or the phantom blade spiritualist archetype might fit best. If you want a spellcaster who fights with a staff a staff magus might be best. If you want clearly less than jedi-tier magic then some sort of monk perhaps. I'm not a big Star Wars fan - can you provide any more detail to nail that down?

To clarify he wouldnt be an obi won kenobi. He is throwing people around using the force he is letting it guide him and so he more. The quote in Rogue one that Chirrut says is "I am one with the force and the force is with me" as he sees himself as follower of the force and less a user of the force.

So I guess maybe a monk would be the best.


I have a lot of ideas floating in my head. Chirrut was my favorite character from Rogue One other than Alan Tudik's K2SO but I digress. Basically I want a spiritual character someone who sees the world as neither good or evil. But listens to the world around him to see the best course of action.
For those who are big Star Wars fans I'd like this character to have some kind of mystic ability. Some kind of mechanic that he can pull from to use but he isn't a jedi tier force user that he can just throw people around. Id like his weapon to be a bow staff or quarterstaff.
So the classes Ive got him narrowed to being a Monk, an Oracle, or a Magus. I toyed with a kineticist for a while but felt that it didn't quite fit. Though I have to say I was really drawn to the Psychic for a while but felt its spell casting was to much. If I could somehow get the magus and pyschic to class to play nice with each other that would be cool too.

The DM is very flexible and would be willing to work with me on some of this I'm sure if I wanted to move around class features or other things like that.


This is true that we will likely not see them. It was merely something I got curious of when I found their page on the wiki.


So Where are the androffans? So the Androffans predate the humans on Golarian. We have the Azlanti Star Empire. Surely the Androffa is unaffected, right?

I'm curious as to whats happening there. Also who were the greater gods that put down the Shoal? Where are the Shoal now?

I haven't played through module that they mentioned in but I did read about them on the Pathfinder Wiki


avr wrote:

What do you mean by 'Level 30 PrC'? Those classes could qualify a lot earlier, especially in gestalt.

Hawkeye should have grenadier alchemist on one side. It does his trick arrows a lot better. Also weapon master fighter > archer fighter since advanced weapon training became possible.

Brute vigilante is brokenly bad; there are other ways of getting big in PF, use them instead.

There's a reincarnated druid archetype which can ignore aging from level 5. Reincarnating makes you a young adult again. Unchained monk on the other side, sure, they can easily find themselves without their equipment.

I'm not sure why Jonah is taking some sorcerer levels, or how many given there's gunslinger on the same side. What do you have in mind there?

Vigilante (Warlock) + Magus (Armored Battlemage) seems like a bad idea. Warlock vigilante doesn't get any ability to cast in medium or heavy armor, so you'd effectively lose their spellcasting in combat. Basically any other magus archetype would work better.

Child of War (aka Child of Acavna and Amaznen) doesn't work well. Some sort of bloodrager would be strictly better, and with nanite bloodline sorcerer on the other side of the gestalt you must have enough Cha for that.

I’m not saying that these are the best combo of all time. I am just saying that they might be fun some of them I know would work like Living Shadow. But some or most I wasn’t going what would work the best. I appreciate the feed back though. Also to the level 30 thing I am really into the idea that after 20 you can continue playing and have it be thematic. I hope my lack of min/max ability didn’t offend you.


Reminds me of Meatbag the Wizard


So when I get stressed out I build characters and this semester has been particularly stressful. Here is a collection of gestalt class combos that I would like to play eventually. Some of these I think if mathed out could be really effective. Though some of them are MAD as hell. As a GM I try to play encourage people to choose flavor over min/maxing, though as character I try to balance the two. Anyway thats the backstory so here are combos feel free to add to, make suggestions, and let me know what you think.

Beast Rider
Barbarian (Superstitious; Mounted Furry) + Fighter (Unbreakable) + [Level 30 PrC: Mammoth Lord]
- This one I was trying to make some kind of just unstoppable Warlord.

Android Destroyer
Sorcerer [Nanite Blood Line] + Fighter (Child of War) + VMC: Magus + [Level 30 PrC: Eldritch Knight]
- I was trying to make a bad guy for my Starfinder campaign that I have been running. I'm just sad that the Cybersoldier archetype didn't stack with Child of War.

Living Shadow
Race: Drow
Sorcerer (Shadow Bloodline) + Ninja + [Level 30 PrC: Shadow Dancer]
- Thematically I really like this one because your character after awhile just becomes a living shadow that literally no one can find. Would also make a good Big Bad for a campaign... or I think so at least

Eternal Flame
Race: Ifrit
Sorcerer (Elemental Fire Bloodline){or Bloodrager with same bloodline} + Oracle of Fire + [Level 30 PrC: Mystic Theurge]
- FIIIIRRRRREEEE... shut up I know that Kineticists exist and to honest could probably replace either class.

Black Bow
Magus (Eldritch Archer) + Monk (Zen Archer) + [Level 30 PrC: Arcane Archer]
- Just all the arrows. It would be fun to play as it would do a s+&! ton of damage... probably I'm an art student, I don't do math.

Living Suit
Summoner (Synthesist) + Vigilante (Avenger)
- Thematically it makes a lot sense and it sort of combines Beast Boy and Tony Stark... not that anyone asked for that.

Hate Witch
Race: Half-Orc
Witch (Scarred Witch Doctor) + Barbarian (Urban Barbarian) {This only works Pre-Erratta}
- I built one of these before and it was frightening and it was only one level of Barb. She wrecked shop

Ragathiel’s Vengeance
Race: Assimar (Angel Blooded)
Slayer + Inquisitor (Cold Iron Warden) + {VMC: Paladin would add nice flavor} + [Level 30 PrC Crimson Templar]
- This has a lot of flavor to it and thats why I like it

Green Lantern Kinda
Fighter (Unbreakable) + Vigilante (Warlock)
- I am not sure... I kinda threw it together.

Relentless Combatant
Barbarian (Dreadnaught; Invulnerable Rager) + Fighter (Unbreakable)
- This sounded scary as hell and almost impossible to bring down. And again thematic as hell

True Warlock
Vigilante (Warlock) + Magus (Armored Battlemage)
- Pathfinder has no true warlock so this sorta makes up for it

Zoro
Vigilante (Avenger) + Swashbuckler
- I picture a Nathan Fillion-esque dashing rogue type

Urban Hunter
Vigilante (Stalker) + Slayer (Bounty Hunter)
- This is one of those that has a cool idea but I couldn't think of cool name

Red Hulk
Vigilante (Brute) + Bloodrager (Bloodline: Elemental Fire)
- Half of Christmas Hulk

[bHulk[/b]
Vigilante (Brute) + Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager)
- I actually built this for a gestalt campaign that never got played

Hawkeye
Fighter (Archer) + Vigilante (Stalker)
- Hawkeye is my favorite superhero so I thought I'd try to remake it... Some how.

Roosevelt
Fighter (Roughrider) + Vigilante (Mounted Fury)
- Ghost Riderish... I made this a while ago so not sure what I was going for

Jonah
1 Wizard (Spell Slinger)/Sorcerer (Arcane Bloodline) + Gunslinger(Mysterious Stranger) + [Level 30 PrC: Grand Marshal]
- Spells and Guns, basically a ranged one man wrecking crew

Ancient One
Unchained Monk + Druid + [Level 30 PrC: Green Faith Acolyte]
- Alignment is limiting but say good by to aging

Holy Spektor
Gray Paladin + Ninja + [Level 30 PrC: Gray Warden]
- This was the first I made and can't for the life of me remember why


So when I get stressed out I build characters and this semester has been particularly stressful. Here is a collection of gestalt class combos that I would like to play eventually. Some of these I think if mathed out could be really effective. Though some of them are MAD as hell. As a GM I try to play encourage people to choose flavor over min/maxing, though as character I try to balance the two. Anyway thats the backstory so here are combos feel free to add to, make suggestions, and let me know what you think.

Beast Rider
Barbarian (Superstitious; Mounted Furry) + Fighter (Unbreakable) + [Level 30 PrC: Mammoth Lord]
- This one I was trying to make some kind of just unstoppable Warlord.

Android Destroyer
Sorcerer [Nanite Blood Line] + Fighter (Child of War) + VMC: Magus + [Level 30 PrC: Eldritch Knight]
- I was trying to make a bad guy for my Starfinder campaign that I have been running. I'm just sad that the Cybersoldier archetype didn't stack with Child of War.

Living Shadow
Race: Drow
Sorcerer (Shadow Bloodline) + Ninja + [Level 30 PrC: Shadow Dancer]
- Thematically I really like this one because your character after awhile just becomes a living shadow that literally no one can find. Would also make a good Big Bad for a campaign... or I think so at least

Eternal Flame
Race: Ifrit
Sorcerer (Elemental Fire Bloodline){or Bloodrager with same bloodline} + Oracle of Fire + [Level 30 PrC: Mystic Theurge]
- FIIIIRRRRREEEE... shut up I know that Kineticists exist and to honest could probably replace either class.

Black Bow
Magus (Eldritch Archer) + Monk (Zen Archer) + [Level 30 PrC: Arcane Archer]
- Just all the arrows. It would be fun to play as it would do a s$*+ ton of damage... probably I'm an art student, I don't do math.

Living Suit
Summoner (Synthesist) + Vigilante (Avenger)
- Thematically it makes a lot sense and it sort of combines Beast Boy and Tony Stark... not that anyone asked for that.

Hate Witch
Race: Half-Orc
Witch (Scarred Witch Doctor) + Barbarian (Urban Barbarian) {This only works Pre-Erratta}
- I built one of these before and it was frightening and it was only one level of Barb. She wrecked shop

Ragathiel’s Vengeance
Race: Assimar (Angel Blooded)
Slayer + Inquisitor (Cold Iron Warden) + {VMC: Paladin would add nice flavor} + [Level 30 PrC Crimson Templar]
- This has a lot of flavor to it and thats why I like it

Green Lantern Kinda
Fighter (Unbreakable) + Vigilante (Warlock)
- I am not sure... I kinda threw it together.

Relentless Combatant
Barbarian (Dreadnaught; Invulnerable Rager) + Fighter (Unbreakable)
- This sounded scary as hell and almost impossible to bring down. And again thematic as hell

True Warlock
Vigilante (Warlock) + Magus (Armored Battlemage)
- Pathfinder has no true warlock so this sorta makes up for it

Zoro
Vigilante (Avenger) + Swashbuckler
- I picture a Nathan Fillion-esque dashing rogue type

Urban Hunter
Vigilante (Stalker) + Slayer (Bounty Hunter)
- This is one of those that has a cool idea but I couldn't think of cool name

Red Hulk
Vigilante (Brute) + Bloodrager (Bloodline: Elemental Fire)
- Half of Christmas Hulk

[bHulk[/b]
Vigilante (Brute) + Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager)
- I actually built this for a gestalt campaign that never got played

Hawkeye
Fighter (Archer) + Vigilante (Stalker)
- Hawkeye is my favorite superhero so I thought I'd try to remake it... Some how.

Roosevelt
Fighter (Roughrider) + Vigilante (Mounted Fury)
- Ghost Riderish... I made this a while ago so not sure what I was going for

Jonah
1 Wizard (Spell Slinger)/Sorcerer (Arcane Bloodline) + Gunslinger(Mysterious Stranger) + [Level 30 PrC: Grand Marshal]
- Spells and Guns, basically a ranged one man wrecking crew

Ancient One
Unchained Monk + Druid + [Level 30 PrC: Green Faith Acolyte]
- Alignment is limiting but say good by to aging

Holy Spektor
Gray Paladin + Ninja + [Level 30 PrC: Gray Warden]
- This was the first I made and can't for the life of me remember why


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HWalsh wrote:
Kcinlive wrote:
Nice guide. One minor criticism, the color coding is different from a lot of the other guides I've seen. "Usually" blue is the best choice. Not a huge deal, it was just throwing me off while reading it.

Hrm - I could change it...

I was kind of trying to follow a hue theme... You know:

Yellow = Best
Green = Very good
Blue = Good
Purple = Situational
Red = Bad

The reason you know...

Situational Good and Bad IE between Blue and Red so Purple.
Very good is between Good and Best IE between Blue and Yellow so Green.

Most people are used to Treant Monk guides as its kinda the standard for guides and formats.

Though I do appreciate the idea you are going for as an art student and painter.


So I just thinking about this. I have seen a lot of people praising Starfinder for its inclusivity and I would agree in that. A lot of people who play these sort of games... can be not as open minded. I mean you have some in every group but it seems in I've had some very not inclusive individuals. But thats not what I am here to talk about as I could write an essay on that kind of thing.

Lashunta children under go a coming of age ritual in which they choose their, for lack of a better term, breed. This is due to their progression as a culture. I think thats really cool. This is cool because when they were initially introduced they were introduced as basically space Dwarves and space Elves. They are still kinda space elfish though now actual elves have taken over the role.

The idea of sex and gender is really being challenged in this setting and I think thats really cool but there are times where I say to myself, "why does this matter?"

I tend to play human males a lot but I like the richness of lore that the devs have been providing. The Core has just enough lore to get a game going but not much more and I think thats one thing that I am itching for more which is good because I know that there are a lot of you who feel the same. (Congrats they have us hooked.) Every corner of this universe seems to teem with life and I want to know more about them.

It also leaves a lot of open-endedness for GMs to make up their own lore.

So this post is all over and kind of a dumpster fire but I don't have anyone to talk to about this in person. I just want to discuss this new game I'm so excited to play.


Gilfalas wrote:
Matthew Shelton wrote:
The Castrovel Science Directorate has determined that time travel is impossible...

The time of the Gap starts and ends at the boundary of a time loop. As one travels throughout reality fluctuations in the laws of physics and magic cause time abberations in regional time flows and thus the differences in time knowledge in the gap. The loop was caused by a group of Rovagug cultists and culminated with the annihilation of existence as we know it.

The gods are mostly outside time due to their natures and as such realized that with the destruction of existence they would have no worshipers to continue to validate their existence and as such they themselves WOULD cease to exist despite not being affected by time itself.

Together the gods constructed a divine machine that needed an eternal power source so they broke open Rovagug's prison (destroying Golarion) long enough to shackle him to the divine device which then put the missing years into a sort of stasis slightly out of phase with the normal universe a moment before the final act that would have destroyed all of existence, sealing it with a knowledge lock.

That lock went reality wide. Should any non divine entity ever actually find out the reason for the need for Gap, the knowledge would then open the lock (which is manifested in reality as Absalom Station), releasing not only Rovagug from the machine but allowing the final act of existence to happen and the universe to be annihilated.

I really like this. It hurts my brain a little but I like it. But it is said that Torag is now watching over or standing guard over golarian as if were going to be given back or something is coming to find that planet. Like WHY Torag? Why the Dwarven god? Why didn't more stay? Iomedae Who grew up there, or someone like that? He is the god of protection so I am not surprised. Just a few thoughts that I thought of.


David_B wrote:

All I want out of future content is "not too much".

The amount of options with Pathfinder is, to me, a little off-putting. I like the system, but it feels like you need to take a masters degree in it to get the most out of the game.

I am enjoying being in on the ground floor with Starfinder, but I really hope it's not going to become as twisted and tangled as its older brother.

I liked that "too much" approach honestly. It really allowed for people play whatever they could dream of.

Starfinder feels bare right now. Which is fine because it allows the community to really take apart the mechanics and put them back together again. Though I can't help but want more than what is out. Which I mean I think most of us are. But that's my opinion.

I would second the ultimate equipment thing. Starfinder really feels item dependent so having more would only help give more option. Also as an illustrator i just want more art. I have never actually run anything but homebrew so I want a lot of fleshing-out of this solar system because I want to know what things look like because I feel like it is more important in THIS setting more than pathfinder.

Aliens I just more diverse societies and stuff like that. Kinda like Sanghelios from Halo.


A grenadier would be cool. or a like a super-soldier. Something like a cross between a Gunslinger and Alchemist. Using the bombs from the Alchemist class and the guntraining and combat focused skills of the gunslinger.

So Something like a slayer archetype that gains guntraining at like 6th level and 12th level. Gains a grit pool using his Int.

Uses talents to augment the bombs, and the bomb damage for sneak attack damage.


alexd1976 wrote:

20 levels Rogue/Fighter and 10 levels Assassin-Black Widow!

Why not gunslinger?


kyrt-ryder wrote:
20 Sorcerer 20 Magus 10 Ultimate Magus

So is it Adam Warlock's dark side?


As fast as possible post a theoretical gestalt two classes and a ten level prestige class for them to take after the two classes are done.

Archetypes, 3.5 material, Dreamscarred press psionics and Path of War are welcome!

I'll start!

20 Levels of Archer (Fighter), and Avenger (Vigilante) + 10 levels of Initiate of the way of bow = Clint Barton!

Quickly! the world needs saving!


This is kinda knit picky as most of qualms about the class have been discussed is that Aether which in my book should be the Arcane Bloodline of this class has to basically have Ammo. Unattended objects. While there is a lot I want to just hit. With the force of my characters inner being. Sorta like magic missile I guess without spell resistance. I think going Mono Elemental should also give you benefits like Ignoring Cover/miss chances to help improve its accuracy as you have dedicated yourself to it. While Mark I agree having the Expanded Elements is basically a must for the Elementals but an Aether Kineticist should be able to live without it and be just fine. I really like Aether as it reminds me of Biotics (Mass Effect) and the Force (Star Wars).
Also I think that there should be some benefit to having more than one of the associated blast types. Like a TK that has Expanded into Hydro should gain some sweet benefits with Kinetic Healing. Thats just a few things I think could help though I know it is getting close to release so I doubt I could change much but I thought I'd share anyway.


I have added a few Deeds to the list and I am doing my best to keep it with in reason so if people want to look at them and make some suggestions for others.


Okay so wrote out what the pools do and how they function. I haven't done the description of the deeds. I'm just wondering what magical like deeds they should get.


Okay, that sounds reasonable I will give them a look really cool and have been looking at the psychic warrior. I really like them but I am afraid of them being overpowered. Though I guess thats most third party things. But Psionics stuff seems balanced and I'll give them a read through when I get the chances.


That makes sense to me. So I swapped out Abundant step for a Freedom of Movement like ability (With the caveat of having at least one Inua Point.) this hopefully synergizes well with fast movement. I have renamed Panache to Inua and at forth level gets something like Mystic Ki (a pool = to 1/2 level + Wis and an additional 2 every two levels) and Inua received at the first level is only equal to the Wisdom Modifier. I don't know hopefully that helps focus the class a bit. So hopefully if you want to take a look at it now I hope it looks cleaner.


Yeah thank you Puna. I fixed the Saves giving them a Ref/Will good and Fort being not so good. I didn't go and add spell casting like I thought I thought I might. Just didn't seem to fit. To make up for the lack of fort I added Purity of Body and Diamond Body to it as well as Abundant Step, Timeless Body, High Jump, and Fast Movement. I feel that they are far and stick to my idea of a Jedi/ Swordsinger. (Swordsingers from the Elder Scrolls Lore if you have any knowledge of them.) So thats where I am at right now.

And Shaman, I have looked at the Psionic's stuff but I just can't get behind it. Its really kind just easier to me make a home brew class that functions off of already established core classes. And I like this, making up classes. Its cathartic in a way.


Okay I'll work on it. And I agree with that idea of the it should probably be a full bab. But I feel like it will wind up functioning like a cross between an arcane ranger and a monk. Limited spell casting but what spells they can cast they do it well. And I guess after reading these suggestions I have a little to think about.

I will be using the Swashbuckler as a base idea for deeds and ki like powers. But have three good saves and some minor casting abilities. Okay so basically I am going to mix a swashbuckler and monk together, with the Swash being the primary and Monk being secondary. And I guess the Magus as a tertiary. So yeah that does sound like the idea wanted, being a Sword Play Mystic.

I will make another post updating what features will be moving over from the monk.


Puna'chong wrote:
Deathnought wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
You need to set the document so that anyone with the link can view it.
If you can't tell I'm bad at this.

Haha, no worries man. That's what the messageboards are for. I'll take a look at it here in the next day or so. In the meantime, what is your goal with the types of spellcasting that the class/archetype does? Do you want primarily psychic and compulsion things like mage hand or charm person? As a "jedi," are you focused on it being proficient primarily with a sword weapon, unarmed, or any weapon? Are flurries what you want, since that's usually why Monk is invoked as a base class, aside from unarmed damage, or are you looking more at a perfect strike type deal? Do you want the concept to be explicitly Star Wars-flavored for a d20 campaign, or are you looking to have the mechanical feel of a Jedi in a Pathfinder setting?

Basically I am looking for a monk that specializes in swordplay. The dueling sword seemed perfect for that. And flurries are what I want. And I wanted them to mechanically feel like a medieval Jedi. Using its ki for the manipulation of things and those around the character. The Flurry is part of being a monk. So thats what I wanted. if that makes any sense.


I wanna see a few things

Sylph Slayer.

Android Gunslinger.

Android Sorcerer (using the Nantite Bloodline)

A combo of the previous aforementioned ideas)


Arachnofiend wrote:
You need to set the document so that anyone with the link can view it.

If you can't tell I'm bad at this.


My Bad... Hope this one works


So I made this up as I wanted to play a Jedi/Psionic's type character. I looked at trying to mix the into the Monk as best I could without compromising the Monk or overpowering it entirely. I looked at the Qinggong, Zen Archer, Weapon Adept, and the Ki Mystic Archetypes. Pulling things from all of them qualities that I felt were appropriate. Also help me figure out a cool name for this too. Feedback welcome because I want to keep it balanced as best as possible. Also not entirely sure if I wrote down everything I needed to so if you catch something lemme know.
Jedi Monk


Okay so going to rework the it as a Magus Archetype.


It gets way to specific to be an archetype. And the Magus Spell list sucks anyway. So I am making own cause I like it. And its fun. Hate me.


I have been trying to make a class that made being an Arcane Archer less painful.
For inspiration I looked at the Zen Archer (Mainly for Bonus Feats), Ranger, Gun Slinger (for Nimble), Sorcerer, and Magus.
So I am here is what I have so far:

Hybrid for format

HD: d8

BAB 3/4

Level 1: Bonus Feat, Cantrips,
Level 2: Point Blank Mastery, Enhance Arrows (Magic)
Level 3: Nimble 1
Level 4: Bonus Feat, Imbue Arrow
Level 5:
Level 6: Enhance Arrows (Elemental)
Level 7: Nimble 2,
Level 8: Bonus Feat, Seeker Arrow
Level 9:
Level 10: Enhanced Arrow (Distance)
Level 11: Nimble 3,
Level 12: Bonus Feat, Phase Arrow
Level 13:
Level 14: Enhanced Arrow (Elemental Burst)
Level 15: Nimble 4,
Level 16: Bonus Feat, Hail of Arrows
Level 17:
Level 18: Enhanced Arrows (Aligned)
Level 19: Nimble 5,
Level 20: Bonus Feat, Arrow of Death

So basically what I feel like its missing is something like Deeds, Bloodline Powers, or Judgement type things. Suggestions? And also I am going to build a custom spell list that adds some Ranger Spells into the list as well. So Halp I am trying my damnedest to make this balanced. Also the order in which the class abilities can be changed. So Yeah anything to help.


Hoooolllyyy Crap... Well I was hoping that but while I understand how important Initiative is, I also like the idea of just outlasting your opponent is just as potent. I know this from fighting myself. Your opponent gets tired and makes mistakes. Especially if the Warpriest is Human. He will get Human Racial Feats that are... well frankly amazing. so I think with that I am going to say that the team has been decided on.


Okay I looked at the oracles. This could be a viable option with the Lunar Mysteries.
but I like the idea of a warpriest. I like the way they work. And they make great archers. And I plan on using the Luck Blessings. It sounds like a lot of fun. Buffing and Shutting down, a long with a witch is well... kinda scary... So yeah definitely doing that.


Shasf wrote:

Well, if you would like to play with extreme cheese; I have just the build for you: Legion

Any combination of classes to 10; Noble Scion 10

This allows for a large number of followers, secondary characters, and wealth.

Though what is the battlefield likely to be?

Also, use a wizard; divination specialist because of the bonus to initiative; that would be another way to win.

I am not sure my guess is either an arena or in a field somewhere. We haven't talked about it yet. And That sort of thing is cool but I don't feel like it fits in with the general theme of what I want. But thank you for the recommendation I have another character that I'd like this for.


Dragonflyer1243 wrote:

Okay, so Scarred Witchdoctor is definitely a great choice because of a witch's versatility and having higher hit points than the average caster.

From what it seems like, you're focusing a lot more on survivability and having tough to kill characters, while he'll be trying to overwhelm you with extra bodies on the field. First off, I don't know how much time you guys will have to buff, but make sure you have Protection from whatever alignment he likes to summon from, since that means that his summoned baddies can't touch you.

Personally, my counter to his strategy would be sheer damage output, and an archer would be perfect for your fourth character. If you can take out his casters without having to go through all the bodies inbetween, then you're in a great situation. Personally, I'd recommend one of a few options, Warpriest is awesome for damage, self-buffing, etc., Bard and Inquisitor are both great for buffing the party in addition to themselves, and Paladins are actually pretty good at buffing the party via their various auras. I would go with the Warpriest, because of their versatility and ability to buff themselves terrifying quickly, because I don't know exactly how long you will have to prepare, but if you have longer, then get scrolls of buff spells and go with the paladin.

Your main priority is going to be protecting your archer/witch from all their melee opponents while they're outputting massive damage and/or debuffing like crazy. Your goal with the archer should be to take out the casters first.

I hope this was helpful, best of luck!

That is incredible helpful! I love Warpriests as they tend to act like a divine energizer bunny. I played one once and He was the only one to consistently be at full health.

Okay what would you recommend as far as races go for an Archer Priest?
I am immediately Drawn to a Half-Elf sheerly if not completely for flavor. But beyond that I don't know.

Also anyone have any cool names for a male Vishkanya that swings lighting fast with Katanas? Just for Flavor you know.


Right now I am putting together a four man team to take on friend. All four have to be level 20 and decked out in full battle garb.

So far I have a Two Weapon Warrior, Stalwart Defender, Slayer, and Scarred Witch Doctor.

I am martial heavy I know but I am looking at picking up an Elven/Half Elven Spell Dance or Arcane Archer.

My Two Weapon Warrior has the following
Vishkanya
Str: 28
Dex: 21
Con: 16
Int: 22
Wis: 19
Cha: 22

AC: 40
HP: 191
Attacks: 18 per full round. with two Vorpal Speed Impact Katanas.
He also packs a base speed of 40ft, thanks to Items.
Feats:
TWF (and all other feats applicable.)
Weapon Focus
Iron Will
Power Attack
Steadfast Personality
Improved Crit.
Crit Focus
Hammer the Gap
Bleeding Crit
Stagging/Stunning Crit
Deadly Finish

My Stalwart Defender has the Following.
Phalanx Soldier/10 Stalwart Defender/10
Str:31
Dex:17
Con:42
Int: 19
Wis: 23
Cha:19
HP: 512 (I rolled well)
AC: 33
DR: 20
Armor allows for him to negate critical hits.
Main Weapon is an Impact, Keen, Defending, Ghost Touch Adamantine Horse Chopper.
Secondary Weapon is something called Summoner's Sorrow.
Possesses a Ring of Evasion
And his shield is a Force Tower
Feats:
Combat Expertise
Combat Reflexes
Dodge
Improved Trip
Greater Trip
Lunge/Monkey Lunge
Power Attack
Tripping Strike
Antagonize
Diehard
Endurance
Stalwart and Improved
Iron Will
Toughness

Now here is my question I am planning on running a Witch (Specifically a Scarred Witch Doctor) with the Eldritch Heritage Feat Tree taking the Orc blood line to help with survivability and buffing of the team. I would include more but I don't have her done just yet. So suggestions are more than welcome.

Second issue is I don't know if keep I should keep with my theme of Martial Power or pick up a secondary spell caster like Magus/Eldritch Knight/Arcane Archer Type of thing for extra fire power. At the moment I am kinda thinking I should go with Combat Caster. But I also have slayer potentially waiting the wings as I like the combination of Powerful Sneak, Deadly Sneak, Assassinate. I feel as if this would put me at a disadvantage however, but I don't really know. So if you could point me in a direction to find a strong Arcane Archer Build or Spell Dancer Magus that would be excellent.

Some tactics I know he will more than likely be using:
Animal Companions. He likes that extra body on the field and I wracking my brain as to how to kill them. My best bet is to use my Witch for that.
Summoner. He f!%~ing loves these things and I can see why I was planning on doing it myself. I need learn how to deal with these as well though I am hoping my Stalwart Defender can hopefully use Summoner's Sorrow as an effective deterrent.
Keen. This is what I see as his biggest weakness. He loves the Keen enchantment. I myself like Improved Critical as it opens some new feats that will eventually come up. He thinks that Keen does the same thing allowing him to not worry about the Improved Critical Feat and take something else cool. I hope my Vishkanya will prove the validity of this Feat to him.
ALSO he will more than likely be using some kind of Fighter/Barbarian.

I know this is a long as hell post but I really would like to beat this guy.
So help if you can thank you!


The Eldritch Scion is more what I was looking for. Though the Hellknight Signifier also sounds really cool. But what I am looking for is the Cut and dry fighter that due to his lineage casts spells using that. Through its hard work as improves its body so it can take hits (hit dice d10) and through self reflection(Wis), Force of personality(Cha), or Practicing and memorizing(Int). If their BAB takes a hit then so be it but I want them to be able to hit and do damage. I am just trying to build an Int. based Sorcerer/Fighter/Eldritch Knight class that isn't super clunky. I don't know that is just me.


Hi everyone,
Recently I have been trying to refine an Idea I have had mulling about in my head.
As much as I love the Flavorrager... er... bloodrager, I can't help but feel disappointed by it. I love Sorcerers and I would play them a lot more if they didn't go squish when you touched them. I realize that there are Magus's out there but even still they don't have the same allure of the "I was born with this power" of a sorcerer. However I am not knocking the wizard. And the one or two times I have played a Sorcerer it was been a Sage Blooded Sorcerer, But that is beside the point.
I sat down the last few days and have been trying to do make a spell cast using a Sorcerer, Fighter, and Eldritch Knight. However what I have come up with thus far is probably one of those things you hand to a DM that makes them laugh before they coldly tell you no. I have been trying my damnedest to get the pieces to fall into place and its not working.
Here is the link to what I have been working on. All big pieces are there just not filled in. So tell me what you think. and leave suggestions for me.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EyJrh-DmKbC077MfVkdVTUvCTLdba9kpTepJLdI xzX0/edit

So the process I used is looking at the Gestalt Rules and then cutting off parts of the classes and using it as a way to refine the class farther.

Some Explanations:

Armor Adept: Allows for no movement penalty like what a fighter would get at level 7, as well as DR/3.

The capstone ability is an either or critical between spells and Weapons. when ever you land a critical you can either increase the critical multipler of the weapon by one (x2 --> x3) or can cast an nonproked spell (Ie no op atks.) as well as the 20th level Bloodline power.

Armored Somatics functions as braveries replacement, slowly chipping away at Arcane Spell Failure until Level 18 when Arcane Armor Lord allows for none what so ever at the expense of a swift action. the Arcane Armor Mastery feat would Allow a constant effect of no arcane spell penalty.

I also have changed how many the spells the Arcane Warrior can know. But I still feel like people will cry "gamebreaker," or "OP!"

I am doing my best here and trying to keep it far but no matter how hard I try I feel like can't build my idea with just pissing off everyone else.


So I played a gun slinger that sat at like an 18 dex tops and took down a purple worm. with the help of an assassin squirrel... still bitter that f--er did damage but thats beside the point. So yeah. Kill purple worms. Be a gunslinger. (Specifically a musket master.)


Currently we have:

Nemiwyn the Spire Elf with part of demon's soul bound to it. To perform great feats she sells part of her soul to him slowly turning her into a succibus. And the running joke is that the book is kept in vagina, or the "infa-gina" as it is so loving referred to as now

Riven the Drow Ranger (and a medieval machine gun might I add) and her Sabre Tooth Tiger Castiel the Rapey tiger, voiced by Sean Connery. Also Castiel has moonbooties.

Renva the Fetchling Inquisitor for 4 different gods. Ren also likes to "pick locks". Has a giant pet raven (Renva, Raven... seriously its a dyslexic's nightmare) That she can turn into a big purple bastard sword. It also only says "yaaaassss" like the cat from the one vine... yeah...

Garruk the Improper fraction of a half-orc. This bastard of a bloodrager is part Silver Dragon, Human, Orc, Troll, and Green Wood with a prehensile penis. Also he can't read cause he was raised by Druids.

Karrasu the Half-Tengu Drow Chirurgeon, that after dying had her soul bound to a large dragon recently felled by the party and was infused with Redwood. Also she can still transform into a small Kobold shaped puppet. Also the dragon has a bomb launcher in its mouth.

Kainus the dog-headed man swashbuckler/ chevalier thing that has a summonable chariot that is Riven's little b+!@&. He is also gay and incredibly horny.

Last but not least there is my character. A half elf magus named Wulf. thats not his real name. Recently touched the first lightning bolt and became the avatar of thunder and lost most of his memory...

Yeah thats the motley crew I have playing with me. And while it seems like a cluster Its the most fun I have ever had playing this game.


I favorited for future use. keep it up.


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

Dual Wield Kukris and build Str. Use ranger styles to pick up TWF without pre-reqs.

Share feats like Improved Critical and weapon focus.

Weapon Damage dice means little more than 1-2 points of damage.

If you have someone wielding a x4 critical weapon in the Group invest in Butterfly sting. If not then critical feats might be your go to towards the end game levels.

As for Enchantments I personally like to examine the campaign to figure those out. If your playing something Like Rise of the runelords you might be safe Getting a +1 giant bane Kukris since you're fighting giants a good portion of the campaign book 4+. Perhaps you face a lot of demons? +1 Outsider bane/+1 holy weapons would do you well. Or you can go for some kind of gimmick blades like +1 Axiomatic/+1 Holy and call them Law and Order or something like that. or +1 Shocking Burst/+1 Thundering named Thunder and Lightning. SOme people like gimmick weapons.

Yes I love me some gimmicky weapons. :)


Good lord there is a lot to take in. So what I am gathering...
-Kukris are the go to at higher levels for pure two weapon fighting.
-Go for critical, sneaking, and feinting feats
-Or if I want to get other ways of hitting twice more per round go with a sided weapon like a double sword.

Also thoughts on the Stygian Slayer?


OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH I did not know this.


Imbicatus wrote:

Daggers are good. You can get +1 damage with them via a trait, making them hit as hard as shortswords, if you worship Pharasma you can get a +2 sacred bonus to hit with them cancelling the TWF penalty, they are easily concealable, and they can be thrown. If you take a dip of knife master rogue, your SAs will do d8s with them too.

Otherwise, double weapons are good, as is a one-handed weapon and a cestus. The one-hand+cestus has all the benefits of a double weapon (two-hand when you can't full attack, TWF when you can) without needing the EWP.

The only thing is that I can't take knife master. Knife is a rogue class. Hybrid class rules make that not so legal.


lemeres wrote:

And slayers tend to have their bonuses apply to more situations (since it is not just specific enemy types), and by level 7 you can spam it on anything you are hitting at the time.

You are getting enough extra on each hit that you should be fine with short swords.

I really like those Ideas. And I think Ill go with those. and It allows me for me to get the Headsman Blade or whatever that specific weapon is. Any recommendations as far as feats and talents go?

I kinda want to do the whole Feint thing still. So Improved Feint, and Greater Feint. Powerful and Deadly Sneak. Assassinate. And I am not really sure what else to do.


So I was just wondering which would be more effective

I could play with a few different builds. As a note I am playing a half elf. So The option of Ancestral Arms is still on the Table and is actually a big part of what I want to do. I could be way off with my ideas or couldve missed out completely on something. So help is much appreciate. Also I wanted to focus around the Feinting mechanic as it first with my character concept.

So First Idea:
Dual Wield Kukris. I have read a guide on fighters saying that this the optimal tool through level 20. It also gives me an extra Talent to play with as well.

Idea 2:
One Kukri, One Scimitar. This ups the potential damage out put by two but eats up slot for Rogue's Finesse. Which I am fine with. This is actually the build I am currently planning on and was going to finalize until I remembered something I did with my Magus. (And for flavor sake I like the way this idea looks.)

Idea 3:
One Kukri, One Katana. With Ancestral Arms this becomes a nice option. Bumping up my potential damage by four. However It requires giving up skill focus, and a talent to Rogue's Finesse (Which is factored into my current build). And as a sidenote for flavor I personally think it looks funny.

Idea 4:
Dual Sawtooth Sabres. This is seen as superior to Kukris until very high levels. But this requires Ancestral Arms so it would be full commitment to unlike a Kukri.

So people of the forums help me build a silent butcher please :) (And thank you!!!)


Imbicatus wrote:

The problem with a ranged slayer is that sneak attack is all but useless for most ranged builds. In order to apply sneak attack you have to negate the main benefit of range - distance between you and your target, and you have to find a way to make the target flat-footed against your attacks, as it's impossible to flank at range.

True. But if I took the Sniper Arc type that would help with that. But I suppose I should have specified that I am looking to do a close to middle range killer and/or long range controller.

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