Watery Soup wrote:
You realize the player is out of the campaign til the next one when he dies right? Like he's not coming back til they manage a TPK or complete the campaign.
The primary issue is that...in SOME campaigns pvp is a flamethrower. In this campaign, pvp is more of a "what tool is best to swat the spider"
Pvp is allowed, and the players are forced into a cooling off period by the "no rejoining til next campaign" policy. People here are acting like he's trying to build a flamethrower when he's asking them to hand him a rolled up newspaper.
Optimization of a grappler isn't really much in the way of optimization in the game though. Its really good...against like 1 or 2 size large or smaller enemies, and not great against swarms of em or things that get really big. Yeah the GM might get a little frustrated once you get your hands on a BBEG..but BBEG are notoriously bad at challenging parties of players anyway simply due to 1 turn vs 3-5 per round.
Monk AC is generally pretty low til they get a few levels under their belt. Bear in mind that if you dump, and take the 14 dex, your AC is going to be 15. A fighter in scale and shield is usually around 17-18.
There arent a lot of ways to up a low level monk's ac in a 20 point buy without moving into finesse builds. I suppose you could drop the strength down to base 14, which frees you up enough points to up your dex to 14 and give you a starting AC of 15, but any higher than that is going to start eating into your ability to successfully grapple anything tough.
Edit: If you can get a friendly arcane caster to hit you with mage armor for the first couple levels you should be ok, but it IS going to take some cooperation.
Well i'd do 16 str and 14 wis out the gate, with at least 12's in dex and con, but at that point it depends on if you're into dumping int or cha lower and being exceptionally brutish, or kind of dumb and brutish.
If so, taking one down 2 points lets you push dex or con up to 14 as well, depending on if you want to prioritize tuff or fast. If not i'd toss the spare point in whichever one you like more so that you can raise it to 14 at level 4.
Tetori does a good job of putting the build on rails. It changes the monk bonus feats into the ones you'd automatically want anyway.
Overhead flip lets you do the ultimate warrior press slam
Whirling hold lets you do the "grab by the legs and spin in a circle" wrestling move.
Realistically simply by choosing tetori you've done all the real min/maxing you'd need to. You could spend feats on getting tougher, harder to hit or having neat cinematic maneuvers to do once you've grabbed someone. The only non automatic feat in that archetype is one you'd definitely want right at level 9 Rapid Grappler lets you do 3 grapple checks per round and with constrict in tetori, you do damage with all 3.
Here is an OLD tetori monk guide....a lot of other feats have come out since then.
Snapping turtle style is a reflexive grab (I don't think its as necessary with grab being baked into the archetype but YMMV) it also helps with AC a little bit.
Kraken style adds wisdom to your grapple damage as well as allowing you to implement suffocation rules while grappling and damage armor as you take more feats in the style
Grabbing style makes it easier to grapple with one hand, and allows you to grapple more than 1 opponent and move them around easier as you take more feats
Octopus style is less grapple focused but makes fighting multiple opponents a little easier, includes trip support and makes it a little easier to grapple with only 1 hand but less so than grabbing style.
Tetori monks also bake in a lot of counters for things that render the fighting style useless that you wont be able to get as a brawler. Otherwise the brawler is going to want the same feats in the same timeframe as the tetori.
Oni-spawn is a great choice for any monkish wrestler as well +str for grapple +wis for stunning pin DC and alter self for yet more +str. Their tendency toward gluttony in a vice or two should make some excellent roleplaying opportunities as well, be he a drunk or a lech
Teitori Core Monk.
There are a lot of myths about wrestling Oni, making a skilled wrestler fits the theme.
Plus with some of the grapple feats in the martial arts handbook you can get some cinematic combat descriptions going with tossing people around and slamming them into the ground while you fight.
I understand why you took the heresy inquisition, but it seem like a heavy price to burn your inquisition/domain on skills when there some game changing one to choose (hello travel domain freedom of movement + teleport)
Thematically heresy is kind of an odd one for Sarenrae to begin with given that she has both quasi pacifist redeemers (blooming light) as well as militant near warmongers (the dawnflowers that want to overthrow taldor) in her church
Azatariel swashbuckler: No TWF
Claw pounce: natural attacks dont iterative.
Responding with one good rebuttal and then a bunch of watered down alternatives isn't the rhetorical own you think it is.
Not even remotely the same situation. When someone posts a question how to efficiently pvp, "dont pvp" isn't a remotely relevant or useful answer.
Fighter cant get pounce unless mounted.
Slayer and ranger cant get pounce unless mounted
Flying, for all the amount you should need in an adventuring day is 16k in boots.
Barbarian is the only martial with access to pounce that doesn't require a rube goldberg machine that includes size considerations. That in and of itself makes it, IN PLAY, superior to other dual wielders.
Ubarb in particular gets the crit multiplier increase 4 levels earlier than fighter, who gets it at capstone, thats basically an entire adventure path. The +6 to confirm EVERY crit combined with the +4 from crit focus (if youre building a crit fisher) > one auto crit on a charge in actual play. +10 to hit on a martial is basically an autoconfirm.
Barbarians get their crit multiplier boost at level 16, 4 levels and likely an entire module before fighters get weapon mastery which is their capstone.
Ubarb, class abilities only as to hit boosts are a wash, +20 BAB, + 4 from rage +6 from accurate stance.
Fighter +20bab +6/7 from weapon training + gloves of dueling
Slayer +20bab +5 from studied target
How is the fighter or slayer more accurate than the Ubarb while dual wielding again?
"boars charge wrote:
Special: This rage power is available to wereboars, wereboar-kin and those who associate with these creatures.
Hope your gm brings wereboars into the game or you're playing one specific race.
Reckless abandon: dumping AC while youre already at -2 ac from raging is how you get wrecked.
Lot of theory, very little actual play demonstrated in this thread.
I'd say that a good character with an inherently evil bloodline would be much more compelling. Trying to resist the corrupting influence of their birthright as they are tempted by the power it promises. Classic brooding, tortured hero/anti-hero stuff.
I have a LG abyssal bloodrager the gm let me trade the claws ability for a gore. He's a distant great great great great great great descendant of Baphomet and poised to go into the mythic worldwound AP with a vital strike butchers axe build.
They're the only martial that can get pounce in a reasonable fashion without relying on a mount and chain of mounted combat feats.
They have a rage power that provides a massive boost to critfishing later in levels
They have the most accuracy boost of any martial save rangers against a focused favored enemy which benefits two weapon fighting more than it does other fighting styles
Dual wielding barbarians are easily as iconic as big weapon barbarians, and base barbarian does not do as well at it.
So yeah, im "stuck" on two weapon fighting, as it is the highest DPR fighting style once you get access to some form of pounce.
It does perform better.
Its disingenuous to write off how much better it is at dual wielding while holding up archery as some big benefit. Its disingenuous to write off sudden barbarian death syndrome as not a big deal when the reality is its just something experienced players have learned to work around.
Martials aren't simple unless you've got some game experience under your belt already.
And to be frank no one has done much but claim that its less powerful, while using as their examples niche builds that other classes still do better and niche abilities that kind of go counter to the core themes of the class.
Meanwhile ubarb makes the frenzy barb from diablo or fury warrior from wow a feasable choice, as well as classic drizzt (who had barbarian levels), groo the wanderer (barbarian with 2 katana) and other actually thematic characters, while not having them drop dead at the end of a close fight if they cant get healing quickly enough.
Rikkan the Rat wrote:
I would absolutely go for majordomo investigator or consigliere unchained rogue. Lots of skill points to be VERY good at whatever she needs you to do, not exactly the big bruiser type but competent in combat and able to direct other party members for maximum effectiveness (with teamwork feats). I'd go with the rogue option and take the skill unlock for intimidate, allowing him to threaten people in her name, as well as having some breaking and entering capability if she needs some incriminating evidence disposed of.
two weapon fighting is far more barbarian iconic than archery
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Lot of really good questions here.
The fact that its not a purely in game problem isn't really relevant. OP asked for help putting an end to this paladin. PVP is ok in this campaign, so all the cringing over pvp is irrelevant. The idea that it might degenerate to a physical altercation is laughable. Most likely at best you get a tantrum, that wont really matter much cause that player will be out of the campaign til the rest of the party dies or gets bored.
We aren't therapists here, qualified to help people patch relationships based on a sliver of one side of the whole story, and if people aren't into that kind of campaign they wouldn't join/remain in it.
Just because a lot of people here aren't into that kind of game (im not particularly. I dont even like when GM's make new characters come in lower than 1 level below other party members after a death) doesn't make the commentary on how horrible it sounds helpful to OP. Clearly they enjoy the game and/or style enough to want to continue playing or they'd have ghosted already.
Slim Jim wrote:
Opponents being within 30' of each other is relatively common in most APs
Next time he backhands you change your alignment from NG to N, given that your character is witnessing a champion of goodness.....actually how has he not fallen resorting to physical violence to impose his will on a fellow good aligned party member?
edit: also, you can ONLY coup de grace on spells that require an attack roll. Those spells have a 20 X2 crit rating
OP explained this above. 1 with him, 1 with the paladin, 1 indifferent/unknown.
Also no, dont involve other players...do it like i advised, don't give the paladin or his ally an opportunity to respond, or even fight back. As many people said above, this is a player issue and there's no reason to fight even remotely fair or put your character at risk.
You're level 5, assuming a standardish stat spread, if his con is +4 his cha is probably around +2 or 3.
level 5 paladin +4 base fort, +4 con +3 cha means +11 to fort saves, lets say a misc +1 resistance bonus from a cloak or some trait to bring it to +12
Take a heavy pick. 1d8 X4 crit. Bulls strength yourself min +2 damage assuming you aren't in the negatives for strength, assuming no other modifiers you're doing 4d8+8 on the crit meaning the lowest save is 22 and the highest is in the 40's. You only have an 8% chance of doing less than 20 damage according to rumkin.com's dice roller. At 20 damage his save not to die outright is 30, which means he needs to roll an 18 or higher on the d20 not to die outright.
You get a similar result from coup de gracing him with a shocking grasp.
Be more confident in your ability to kill him in 1 hit from a coup de grace
It solidifies mine, don't f*$$ around, murk him in his sleep and let the player sit out and think about why he got murked in his sleep.