During like the first 10 levels of play they're very neatly balanced to each other. The Hunter may need his animal companion more, but he also gets a lot more out of it.As far as the spells he gets earlier not helping him in combat...
He gets delay poison earlier than any other class by several levels, which is potentially a big deal. For damage and control he's got early access to spike growth, wind wall, he's the only divine caster and 3/4 BAB class to get gravity bow so early, super early access to lead blades, early access to badger's ferocity which is potentially powerful dependent on group composition, early access to ricochet shot which combos well with the new teamwork feats and many Hunter playstyles...
And that's just a quick browse through of the first couple levels of spells. Access to Lead Blades at 1st level alone puts the lie to the idea that they don't have built in ways to boost their damage output without the companion. With the companion they can apply huge boosts to accuracy and damage far earlier and faster than almost any other class.
We'll see. :) Maybe there is something better simmering under the surface than what I personally am seeing. I'll leave it to the optimization people to point out the sneaky ways to make the class shine.
Sawtooth Sabres work (in fact they're your only real choice if you want TWF with this feat), but 19-20 base crit range isn't ideal for either a Magus or a Panache user. The Magus might as well just take Dervish Dance since his off hand needs to be empty anyways.
Now that I actually have the book, my reaction is that I actually like the Arcanist (yes, I know, shun the nonbeliever or whatever), because it gives me the bits i like in both wizard and sorcerer, but I'm at a loss for what kind of caster I want to make out of an arcanist. I was thinking either some kind of blockbuster/control caster hybrid, or some kinda save or lose caster, but I don't know what I want to do.
I like it too, but it's got some exploitable exploits...
Now that I actually have the book, my reaction is that I actually like the Arcanist (yes, I know, shun the nonbeliever or whatever), because it gives me the bits i like in both wizard and sorcerer, but I'm at a loss for what kind of caster I want to make out of an arcanist. I was thinking either some kind of blockbuster/control caster hybrid, or some kinda save or lose caster, but I don't know what I want to do.I like it too, but it's got some exploitable exploits...
Just to cease any worrying of Wizard players feeling they might be invalidated by the Arcanist...
You can access the exploitable exploits with the Exploiter Wizard archetype through the Exploiter Exploits class feature.
Another knee-jerk reaction when I got the actual book; Holy hell is this book skinny. I feel like it could have expanded on the archetypes for everyone and made a fatter book. How rushed was this book?
Just to cease any worrying of Wizard players feeling they might be invalidated by the Arcanist...
You can access the exploitable exploits with the Exploiter Wizard archetype through the Exploiter Exploits class feature.
Yes, well, full points to the developers for their sense of irony, if nothing else.
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I found joy in the strangest of places. A new toy against the forces of Asmodeus; Gender-changing potions. I was rather surprised it was so easily acquired. I mean forcibly changing someone's alignment takes much more effort, and that can be changed back relatively easy. Pro-male religion, prepare to meet your nemisis.
edit: and of course, drow, witches, etc.
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Well my point with the Kensai Magus was just for Cheese. It'll be a 1 level dip for the perks. 2 feats for free, opens up Arcane Strike, Arcane Pool for some of the combat you'll see in a day.
Heck by 3rd level you could grab 2 levels of Hunter, and have Outflank & Two Weapon Fighting. Full Dex damage on your off hand attacks and cast Lead Blades on them. Animal Companion to help with flanking bonus of +4, and your weapons dealing 2d6+ Dex + Arcane Pool each. 3 attacks per round w/companion attacking, another level of Hunter can nab you Precise Strike teamwork feat free. Now at 4th level while flanking your 2 attacks deal 3d6+Dex+Arcane Pool and your companion attacks at 1d4? + 1d6 on attacks. Both of you gaining +4 to hit while flanking. Add a fighter level at level 5 for more cheese and pick up Combat Expertise and Pack Flanking Teamwork feat (train it out when you raise Hunter levels), and as long as your companion is adjacent or behind your enemy you'll be getting your +4 flanking bonus and +1d6 Precise Strike bonus. 20 Dex, WF, Arcane Pool enchant your looking at +12/+12 on attacks w/pet by your side, 3d6+6 dmg on each hit.
I'm sure there are better stuff but I was currently reading the Hunter section and just threw that in there.
Don't forget that the Hunter's companion can take Skirmisher tricks in place of his normal tricks, potentially adding at least another +2 to hit to your attacks.
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Two kneejerk reactions
-Base class archetypes are boring as hell. I get the hybrid class theme but halfway through I was just exhausted reading the "look! An alchemist with inspiration! A wizard with exploits! An inquisitor with an animal companion!"
-Steel Hounds trading class features for Deeds without actually being able to use those deeds annoys me.
Dervish Dance for any weapon, with better requirements (Weapon Focus instead of Perform(dance) 2). Human Swashbucklers can get this at level 1. Human or Half-Elven Swashbucklers get Dex-powered Katana's at level 3, if that's your thing :)
Or Dex-powered Battleaxes for that matter ;)
Or Dex-powered Battleaxes for that matter ;)
Dervish Dance for any weapon, with better requirements (Weapon Focus instead of Perform(dance) 2). Human Swashbucklers can get this at level 1. Human or Half-Elven Swashbucklers get Dex-powered Katana's at level 3, if that's your thing :)
There's a whole massive thread on why the feat is disappointing. The biggest problems: It doesn't work with Rapiers (you need a different feat in a new book for that) and it doesn't work with light weapons (battleaxes confirmed more finesse-ful than daggers).
Also I would rather drop two skill ranks in Craft: Basketweaving than Weapon Focus, given the choice. Two useless skill ranks are easier to part with than a mediocre feat, and might be available sooner.
As long as you're a swashbuckler and can use your class features to make them finessable. Slashing Grace doesn't make the weapon a candidate for Weapon Finesse.
I'm enjoying the critical typo in the Mastermind's Inspiration.
Mastermind's Inspiration (Ex): A mastermind can use inspiration on any Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge, or skill checks without spending a use of inspiration. This ability alters inspiration.
PFS THAT, BATMAN!
I'm enjoying the critical typo in the Mastermind's Inspiration.
Mastermind's Inspiration (Ex): A mastermind can use inspiration on any Diplomacy,PFS THAT, BATMAN!
probably meant
Intimidate, or Knowledge skill checks without spending a use of inspiration. This ability alters inspiration.
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I'm enjoying the critical typo in the Mastermind's Inspiration.
Mastermind's Inspiration (Ex): A mastermind can use inspiration on any Diplomacy,PFS THAT, BATMAN!probably meant
Intimidate, or Knowledge skill checks without spending a use of inspiration. This ability alters inspiration.
However, he is technically correct, the best kind of correct.
Considering what the editing staff let through, yeah I believe it.
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So, apparently the Sacred Huntsmaster Archetype for Inquisitor gives you the Animal Companion from Hunter and you're treated as a Hunter for its effects etc...
But you also gain Hunter Tactics too, all of your teamwork feats are given to your animal companion. It apparently still lets you have your Solo Tactics feature, it doesn't replace it.
I kinda want a Zen Archer Monk/Inquisitor or a ZAM/Hunter now.
Wow, that seems pretty crazy. I guess now I have to decide whether I go Hunter or Sacred Huntsmaster for my next character...
Canny Tumble sounds familiar...
Oh, I know why, it already exists :
** spoiler omitted **
Sure, the two stack, but Canny Tumble is just inferior to what already exists.
I KNEW I had seen it somewhere! I kept looking for it but couldn't.
Am I missing something? I was under the impression precise strike cannot be used if you are attacking with a weapon in the offhand.
Yep. Feat says explicitly that in order to use precise strike you can't use an offhand weapon or non-buckler shield.
Another knee-jerk reaction when I got the actual book; Holy hell is this book skinny. I feel like it could have expanded on the archetypes for everyone and made a fatter book. How rushed was this book?
You're joking right? According to my PDF, it is 258 pages. That's about half as thick as the Core Rulebook, which seems pretty standard for a supplemental book.
Canny Tumble sounds familiar...
Oh, I know why, it already exists :
** spoiler omitted **
Sure, the two stack, but Canny Tumble is just inferior to what already exists.
I too noticed--and am annoyed--by this.
I assumed the intent was that elves get +1 to their maximum arcane reservoir and gnomes get +1/6 to how much they start with each day.
Cuz I mean, you get 3+1/2 level per day in your reservoir, so being an elf would more than double how many points you have to play around with, which seems huge.
Incidentally, another kneejerk:
Really sad there weren't favored class options for advanced races.
Not sure if I missed something...
So Slashing Grace allows Dex to Damage for slashing weapons. Is there no way to get Dex to damage on piercing weapons (other than agile enchantment)??
It seems like rapiers would be the weapon where Dex is most relevant:/
They're releasing another feat in another book that applies to Rapiers only. Still no word about Light weapons.
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100% of swashbucklers are going to be humans or half-elves with a bastard sword or a katana.
Older class' archetypes are pretty boring for the most part.
With the shield throwing archetype and the flying blade archetype I was hoping the book would have more support for dedicated throwing weapon builds.
Don't have favored class options for all PFS legal races.
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I really like the Heavens Spirit Animal! Makes me want to play a Shaman. :)
15-20 crit chance with improved critical/keen for the katana, damage based entirely off dex. I'm sure thats not terrible.
prototype00
Another kneejerk:
Studied Strike based debuffs for the Investigator are awesome.
Having the weakest of them come online at like, level 15 is not.
So does Dirty Trick stand head and shoulders above the other maneuvers at this point? I admit I haven't spared the attention yet to get really familiar with it.
(a situation I find myself in with larger and larger swathes of the rules as they continue to grow)
You're absolutely right, that's perfect for the class features. Does it fit the flavor? Not really for the European Swashbuckling type.15-20 crit chance with improved critical/keen for the katana, damage based entirely off dex. I'm sure thats not terrible.
prototype00
Well, you're not Inigo Montoya then, you're Sasaki Kojiro Ganryu, I see them both as the panache-y fencing types (as opposed to Musashi, who was a real Kill You Dead Samurai and/or Ranger type).
prototype00
One last kneejerk wtf:
Arcane Bloodragers still get magic missile at level 7.