So you can use your shield and weapon while fighting a gaze-attack creature while still trying to reflect its gaze, rather than having to hold a mirror in one hand?** spoiler omitted **
Just...why???
Yeah, seems that way. This seems entirely reasonable for a level 1 spell. Not sure why RD thought it was "just...why???" Hardly anyone will ever prepare this, but it won't hurt to have a scroll of it or spont it up with a class ability.
The odd aspect of this spell is that it implies that a breastplate is 1 square foot.
Unless you know you're heading for a medusa or basilisk or somesuch, of course. :)
You have no idea how much I squeed at the Sacred Slayer archetype for the Inquisitor.
I've never liked 1/day abilities, so imagine my surprise when I found an inquisitor archetype that traded judgment 1/day for a slayer's studied strike, all subsequent iterations of judgment for sneak attack +1d6 (ending on the exact same progression as the slayer), and a small number of slayer talents instead of other judgment-dependent abilities.
I almost immediately reworked one of my characters to fit this archetype. I already had an inquisitor dip—now I wanted the whole experience.
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I like the ACG but it may have accelerated the problems of bloat and "mudflation" this game already suffers from.
We had a conversation about this with my gaming group last night.
Bloat is fairly inevitable for any role playing game, especially one that works from a "player options" paradigm.
AD&D 2nd E had more books then you could count after a point.
D&D 3.5 E eventually suffered from the same problem.
One could argue that 4th E suffered from the same thing before 5th was just released.
Savage worlds has a ton of options but protects itself with "pick and choose". Realistically, that could be used for any system though....although other systems don't reference the "pick and choose" aspect quite as heavily as savage worlds does so I can understand why people are willing to cry "bloat" more readily.
I'm sure there are other systems I am forgetting but my exposure to other options is limited to a few gaming sessions here and there....although Heroes Unlimited has a ton of books to the point that options are stupid and worthless because all of the quality ones are already covered.
But even then war games (Warhammer, War Machine, etc.) and such aren't immune to this either.
Any tabletop game has to grow in order to continue to be relevant. If it stops growing people become discontent, either from a "lack of company support" or from a "lack of new options"...hell even "bored now" plays a factor if you are only given a limited amount of content.
Video games are even catching on to this, which is why expansion packs and DLC are increasingly more popular. People will even pick up old games they are "played out on" or "tired of it now" in order to play a new expansion or DLC pack.
A new edition will eventually happen but what will be the primary determining factor is when Paizo is seeing record low sales with other systems regularly out selling them. This sales data will be several quarters of sales and hasty decisions are unlikely to be made.
TL;DR If a game is old enough bloat happens. If it doesn’t happen the game probably wasn't a top contender to begin with or didn't stay relevant for very long (excluding small cult followings and niche groups).
Bloat is fairly inevitable for any role playing game, especially one that works from a "player options" paradigm.
A new edition will eventually happen but what will be the primary determining factor is when Paizo is seeing record low sales with other systems regularly out selling them. This sales data will be several quarters of sales and hasty decisions are unlikely to be made....
There are 2 competing forces in tabletop gaming. One is from the design perspective. Generally, a designer wants to disengage when they feel the game is starting to bloat. To myself (and most the gamers I commingle with regularly) the last year has started the bloat. Nearly every book has options that are similar but better than other things Paizo has released for PF. Some of the options are getting over the top, and the list of stuff on my banned list has gone from short to rather large. A good designer probably wants to throw in the towel here.
On the business side, if sales are staying flat line or increasing, you want to keep pumping out content. As far as I can tell, even with the "bloat" PF is staying popular. Based off what I saw of 5E, they aren't going to be stealing a large segment of the population from PF, so this could go on for quite a while. I also suspect its very pricey to release a new edition, while its not so pricey to put out a splat book, especially the bad ones we've been seeing a lot of.
The key is to meet in the middle of these two. Its good to release a new edition while your on top. Having to "steal" members from other systems is more difficult than getting your current base to switch over. I THINK paizo is prepping for that with Pathfinder Unchained, and using it to help bridge the income gap creating an entirely new system surely causes. By the time that comes out, I suspect the "bloat" will already be huge if the last year was any indicator.
It will be interesting to see how Paizo adapts.
The key is to meet in the middle of these two. Its good to release a new edition while your on top. Having to "steal" members from other systems is more difficult than getting your current base to switch over. I THINK paizo is prepping for that with Pathfinder Unchained, and using it to help bridge the income gap creating an entirely new system surely causes. By the time that comes out, I suspect the "bloat" will already be huge if the last year was any indicator.
It will be interesting to see how Paizo adapts.
Yep, getting your current base to switch is much easier. That's why everybody switched when WotC released a new edition, and nobody stuck with 3.x. :P
Also, Paizo has specifically said they're not using Unchained as a Book of Nine Swords esque stealth test of new edition ideas. Given the level of involvement they have with the community, I suspect Unchained will be more of a mea culpa, along the lines of "using what we know now" to try to fix some issues, and incorporating some of the suggestions that have been made over the years.
Bardiche with enlarge person, Abnormal Reach, longarm, Lunge.
= 173 squares threatened on your turn
= 126 squares threatened when not your turnCombine this with the fantastically fun fortuitous weapon property, courtesy of the ACG ...
*bwahahahahahaha!*
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
Results:
40 Max reach . . 35 Max reach
15 Min Reach . . 15 Min Reach
184 Squares . . 140 Squares/cevah
Actually, size-appropriate reach weapons double your natural reach, whereas many of those spells increase your natural reach.
So...
05 Normal Reach
05 Aberrant bloodrager
05 Enlarge Person
05 Longarm
=
20
x
02 Reach Weapon
=
40 feet subtotal
+
05 Lunge feat
=
45 feet total
How many squares does that cover? :D
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** spoiler omitted **
Just...why???
+1 Silver Shield and Mirror Polish gives us a 1,000+ gp silver mirror.
Scrying requires a 1,000+ gp silver shield. Now, I can turn my meatbag...ahem, friend's...shield into a silver mirror for scrying.
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I <3 99% of the ACG. Only thing I had a knee-jerk-ban reaction to (which, after much though, I did ban in my own games) was Divine Protection. Even if the Cleric only has a 14 CHA (average it seems for all the clerics in my games), that's still a +2 to every save for one feat. Effectively three feats in one right there. For Oracles, it's even crazier. Absolutely must have.
Glad PFS already banned it. I don't know a single Oracle player that wouldn't want their CHA as a boost to every save.
One knee-jerk disappointment for me:
No style feat based Brawler Archetype. Specifically one that interacts with Elemental Fist. One thing I want to try in the future is to take the Dragon Style chain and use martial versatility to gain the Style feats that interact with Elemental Fist. I'm already disappointed that you can't make a Monk of Many styles with all for Elemental Styles without missing one in the chain. Ever since I saw Elemental Fist I wanted to make a Captain Planet face puncher. Is that so much to ask?
** spoiler omitted **
Just...why???
+1 Silver Shield and Mirror Polish gives us a 1,000+ gp silver mirror.
Scrying requires a 1,000+ gp silver shield. Now, I can turn my meatbag...ahem, friend's...shield into a silver mirror for scrying.
hm... that is actually pretty clever....
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.........
We've got THAT OTHER THREAD to discuss the reach weapon question. Let's keep that discussion over there and this thread on-topic.
@C, interested if my calculations are a bit off, but not going to reconstruct your spreadsheet from forum-text, which doesn't format well. Let's talk about it in the linked thread.
:-)
Actually, size-appropriate reach weapons double your natural reach, whereas many of those spells increase your natural reach.
So...
<snip>
45 feet totalHow many squares does that cover? :D
232 squares. More details in the other thread.
/cevah
My kneejerk reaction from reading my pdf today.
The newly released spells arent outrageously overpowered or staple spells.
Bloodline Development exploit nerf and then giving a full bloodline through an archetype that simply replaces some exploits at certain levels.
Energy Channel. Woah.
Inspired Alchemy is insane.
What's Inspired Alchemy?
What's Inspired Alchemy?
Spend inspiration equal to extract level to regain extract spent in last hour. Extract doesnt count against your daily amount so they roll over into the next day since extracts last 24 hours.
A 10th level Investigator can get essentially 2 extra 4th level slots for the next day if they have a day of downtime.
Im also surprised no one has talked about the Arcanist feat that grants them an extra slot of their highest level.
It should be available as of 14 minutes ago, or in just under three hours if they go off PST rather than EST.
Paizo operates off of Pacific time, so you'll have to wait a little longer. Then it will go up for sale, and then the servers will crash as everyone tries to download it at once.
Oh!
You can build a "good" Fighter now since both the archetypes in the ACG for the Fighter are compatible.
You trade away all the armor stuff and the weapon group stuff. Giving the armor stuff away gives an in class method of flight and the weapon group stuff is given away for actual versatility in combat.
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It should be available as of 14 minutes ago, or in just under three hours if they go off PST rather than EST.Paizo operates off of Pacific time, so you'll have to wait a little longer. Then it will go up for sale, and then the servers will crash as everyone tries to download it at once.
Possibly true. Especially since today also sees the launch of the Iron Lords AP, which I also,want to read.
And unfortunately you're correct. I still can't get it.
Oh!
You can build a "good" Fighter now since both the archetypes in the ACG for the Fighter are compatible.
You trade away all the armor stuff and the weapon group stuff. Giving the armor stuff away gives an in class method of flight and the weapon group stuff is given away for actual versatility in combat.
I hear the Martial Flexibility one is compatible with Lore Warden.
I hear the Martial Flexibility one is compatible with Lore Warden.Oh!
You can build a "good" Fighter now since both the archetypes in the ACG for the Fighter are compatible.
You trade away all the armor stuff and the weapon group stuff. Giving the armor stuff away gives an in class method of flight and the weapon group stuff is given away for actual versatility in combat.
I'd recommend the archetype in the book over the Lore Warden. Though maneuvers wouldnt be completely awful for a Fighter with Martial Flexibility?
I'd still rate in class flight over pretty much everything the Lore Warden gets.
Knee-jerk reaction upon receiving the book: I love the Sanctified Slayer, but replacing the capstone ability with a normal slayer talent (not even an advanced one) seems pretty harsh.
Knee-jerk reaction upon receiving the book: I love the Sanctified Slayer, but replacing the capstone ability with a normal slayer talent (not even an advanced one) seems pretty harsh.
Well you know what they say; "We hate martials."
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Knee-jerk reaction upon receiving the book: I love the Sanctified Slayer, but replacing the capstone ability with a normal slayer talent (not even an advanced one) seems pretty harsh.Well you know what they say; "We hate martials."
Except that that's both a wonderful Archetype...and more importantly an Inquisitor Archetype. So not actually martial.
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Sanctified Slayer is exactly what I've been wanting for years now. I was trying to make it work with Grey Gardener for a while, but I'll take this in a heartbeat instead. Personally, I don't care much about capstones, perhaps that's because I never play until 20 anyways.
I'm definitely making an Inquisitor of Achaekek that dips either Cavalier (Daring Champion) or Swashbuckler and dual-wielding Sawtooth Sabres with dex to damage.
I'll miss Judgment, but I just can't get enough Sneak Attack. Especially with Teamwork Feats and potential to pick up Gang Up without 13 Int. (Charisma to saves is gonna be another feat to consider if I have enough)
Alright, I've read through large part of the classes, skimmed feats and archetypes, equipment and spells and my snap judgement is:
1.) The Arcanist is crazy powerful and does not feel nerfed at all. Yeah, yeah, charisma to some abilities, whatevs. You still got a ton of really powerful things left to do with your exploits without needing the attribute at all. Crazy. Powerful. Want Dimensional Steps as a supernatural action? You got it. Want to counterspell as an immediate action? Here you go. Bonus metamagic feats or item creation feats every second level? Why not?
2.) The Hunter still feels weak, although I may be missing things. 3/4 AB seems low for a class which wants to do stuff by itself and has no good way of buffing itself, given the Druid/Ranger spell lists.
3.) Is it just me, or is the spell list of the Shaman pretty bad? I focus very much on buffing the party when I play a caster, so I may be influenced by that.
4.) Divine Protection is crazy and should be just erased from existance. Is there any player of a qualified class who could pass up such a boon in good conscience? No wonder PFS disallowed it.
5.) Oh, the boots which give Greater Heroism for 30 rounds per day (not necessarily consecutive ones) are activated as a swift action. Well, that puts some limitation on the insanely good buff, but not too much.
6.) Studied Combat/Strike still isn't really too good, but I probably read over the things which make it better. Using Studied Strike seems like a nerf to yourself, since you can only use it for one attack and afterwards you need to spend Inspiration to even use Studied Combat again on the same target.
7.) Swashbucklers still suffer from a glut of abilities which are activated as swift/immediate actions (and thus are still not suited for mythic gameplay, not that I want to play mythic ever again after I finish GM'ing Wrath of the Righteous). So do Warpriests.
8.) Is it just me or are the new spells all not very good, compared to what we got before? I probably missed the few gems in-between.
All in all, a satisfactory book on many levels, but with some stuff in it which raises the power cap again. While Wizards still have the big advantage of getting their spells one level earlier (and have one spell per day more each day as specialists), otherwise Arcanists drink their milkshake. Drink it right up. Sorcerers got two spells per day more than Arcanists, but otherwise mostly seem inferior to them, too.
So, just noticed this combo.
Bloodrager with Eldritch Heritage Orc gets:
Touch of Rage (Sp): At 1st level, you can touch a creature as a standard action, giving it a morale bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and Will saving throws equal to 1/2 your sorcerer level (minimum 1) for 1 round. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.2000 gp Ring of Lingering Blood Magic:
When the wearer of this ring is bloodraging, he can expend
1 round of bloodrage to extend the duration of a beneficial
spell affecting him by 2 rounds. This is a free action the
wearer can take once per round.So activate Touch of Rage, bloodrage, then extend spell. You get 1/2 (level -2 or level with greater EH) bonus to attack and damage for 1.5 rage rounds/round. Boost that with a +4 furious courageous weapon, and you are hitting +8 to attack and damage at level 12.
I feel like I can't let myself even consider doing this in a game.
I don't think spell-like abilities would work with that, since they are not technically spells.
Spell-like abilities count as spells for all purposes, thanks to that FAQ. If it was a Supernatural ability it wouldnt work, but it does for spell-like. Ill just stick with using optimistic gambler trait to actually use the ability, that at least doesnt set of my cheese meter but still actually lets me use the ability on myself.
Well, I guess I am not that up-to-date with the latest FAQ's. I'll leave it to others to parse if your idea is technically legal, then. :)
Is it just me or are blessing unlimited use? Unlimited Flight as a Warpriest of Gozreh! Unlimited Healing with Healing Blessing!
Also Pummeling style and Pummeling Charge make no reference to unarmed strikes in their text, so you can do them with a weapon? Anyone can pounce? I would be ok with this, except pummeling style itself does some pretty insane stuff when you involve weapons, like making the entire attack a crit and totaling up damage before DR.
I doubt it. Since metamagic feats and rods don't apply to SLA I doubt that ring will either, though I don't have the book and can't be certain.
Which FAQ, precisely, lets you get away with this?
Is it just me or are blessing unlimited use? Unlimited Flight as a Warpriest of Gozreh! Unlimited Healing with Healing Blessing!
Also Pummeling style and Pummeling Charge make no reference to unarmed strikes in their text, so you can do them with a weapon? Anyone can pounce? I would be ok with this, except pummeling style itself does some pretty insane stuff when you involve weapons, like making the entire attack a crit and totaling up damage before DR.
Now that the ACG is finally available on the street, can you please post the text for pummeling style chain? I am literally on my knees as I type this.
Ok I've looked through classes, feats, and archetypes. Yet to look at spells.
A lot a cool stuff, but some major weirdness. It feels like the people who wrote the classes, the people who wrote feats, and the people who wrote archetypes had minimal communications. Also feels like the people who wrote feats and archetypes weren't around in the respective feedback threads for the playtest. Too many oddities and unwritten things in this book makes me feel a little disappointed as I read.
Maybe SKR was right about the production schedule being too crunched and how trying to get this out by Gen-con constrained them a lot. I would have preferred this stayed another month in development and editing.
I generally find your posts to be from a steady and pretty balanced POV, so I'd be happy to copy and paste stuff if you have any other requests.
Pummeling Style (Combat, Style)
You collect all your power into a single vicious and
debilitating punch.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike; base attack
bonus +6, brawler’s f lurry† class feature, or f lurry of
blows class feature.
Benefit: As a full-round action, you can pool all your
attack potential in one devastating punch. Make a number
of rolls equal to the number of attacks you can make with
a full attack or a f lurry of blows (your choice) with the
normal attack bonus for each attack. For each roll that is
a hit, you deal the normal amount of damage, adding it
to any damage the attack has already dealt from previous
rolls (if any). If any of the attack rolls are critical threats,
make one confirmation roll for the entire attack at your
highest base attack bonus. If it succeeds, the entire attack
is a confirmed critical hit.
Pummeling Charge (Combat)
Your charge ends with a mighty haymaker.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Pummeling
Style†; base attack bonus +12, brawler† level 8th, or monk
level 8th.
Benefit: When using Pummeling Style, you can charge
and make a Pummeling Style attack at the end of your
charge as part of the charge action.
Normal: Making a Pummeling Style attack is a fullround
action.
Pummeling Bully (Combat)
Your punch has the chance to trip or move your target.
Prerequisites: Improved RepositionAPG,
Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike,
Pummeling Style†; base attack bonus +9,
brawler† level 5th, or monk level 5th.
Benefit: When you hit with a
Pummeling Style attack, you can
attempt a reposition or trip combat
maneuver check as a free action.
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Since the book has hit release date, I think it should be OK to quote the feat information now - please let know if this is incorrect. :)
Pummeling Style (Combat, Style)
You collect all your power into a single vicious and debilitating punch.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike; base attack bonus +6, brawler’s flurry† class feature, or flurry of blows class feature.
Benefit: As a full-round action, you can pool all your attack potential in one devastating punch. Make a number of rolls equal to the number of attacks you can make with a full attack or a flurry of blows (your choice) with the normal attack bonus for each attack. For each roll that is a hit, you deal the normal amount of damage, adding it to any damage the attack has already dealt from previous rolls (if any). If any of the attack rolls are critical threats, make one confirmation roll for the entire attack at your highest base attack bonus. If it succeeds, the entire attack is a confirmed critical hit
Pummeling Bully (Combat)
Your punch has the chance to trip or move your target.
Prerequisites: Improved Reposition APG, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Pummeling Style†; base attack bonus +9, brawler† level 5th, or monk level 5th.
Benefit: When you hit with a Pummeling Style attack, you can attempt a reposition or trip combat maneuver check as a free action.
Pummeling Charge (Combat)
Your charge ends with a mighty haymaker.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Pummeling Style†; base attack bonus +12, brawler† level 8th, or monk level 8th.
Benefit: When using Pummeling Style, you can charge and make a Pummeling Style attack at the end of your charge as part of the charge action. Normal: Making a Pummeling Style attack is a fullround action.
Near as I can tell Pummeling style/charge should work with any weapon, it'd be a very odd oversight if it was intended to only work with unarmed strikes. Limiting it to unarmed strikes would also be a rather big blow to monks or brawlers that use weapons.
Unrelated, but it's worth noting that Pummeling charge does not require Pummeling Bully, so you can skip that feat if you're not interested in repositioning or tripping.
That seems... intense. To say the least.
Rules as intended from flavor tezt, probably unarmed only. As written, nothing prevents other weapons. The craziest amount of crits and pounces are coming.
Since they still will be exclusive to Monks and Brawlers, I can live with that.
Since they still will be exclusive to Monks and Brawlers, I can live with that.
They're not though. Any class can qualify for Pummeling Style and Pummeling Charge. Note the semicolon - it signifies that any of the following will qualify you. For pummeling style that means a BAB of +6 OR monk flurry OR brawler flurry.
Oh, boy. Okay. ^^
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I suspect Pummeling Style will be up there with Power Attack as feats that your would be stupid not to take!
I can't really think of any reason why Pummeling Style wouldn't be an early feat and Pummeling Charge wouldn't be a 9th level feat for every Brawler/Monk out there.
I dunno if I'd ever do it on a monk, but I can tell you that I'm gonna use it on a Sacred Fist Warpriest! While that class as a whole was a huge let down, at least that archetype exists and is awesome!
Is it just me or is the Fated Champion Skald an improvement to Normal Skald in every way? You trade well versed for a scaling initiative bonus, get discounted augary and divination on spell kenning, and replace dirge of Doom for immunity vs fear on raging song.