Knee-jerk reactions from the Advanced Class Guide


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

1 to 50 of 905 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>

Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

If it made your jaw drop, or your eyes pop, or your halls echo with cries of "AWESOME!" or "BROKEN!" we want to hear about it.

For me, it was definitive proof that arcanists were OMG powerful: They can potentially pick up an item creation feat or metamagic feat at every odd level IN ADDITION TO their normal feats!

Wizard who?

Sorcerer who?

I'm playing an artificer AND an incantatrix!
(They easily make the best blockbuster blaster casters now too.)

Shadow Lodge

Apparently Shaman do not have Summon Monster or Summon Nature's Ally on their spell list, which pretty much obviates my current L5 Spell Focus: Conjuration/Augment Summon/Superior Summon PFS Shaman character. Here's hoping there is a Shaman archetype I like...


I kind of went "whoah, really!?" When I saw the magus archetype with bloodlines and rage and spontaneous casting. Particularly because of the casting change, it always seemed like archetypes weren't allowed to do that.

I nearly cried about the hunter without an animal companion and gained wild shape.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

I can see this thread will have a balanced approach to the book.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

OMG! The Ecclesitheurge archetype finally gives us an unarmored, wizard-like cleric! Among other things they can prepare their domain spells in their normal spell slots.

I am SO happy with this concept being realized.

EDIT: And the Eldritch Scion archetype for magus finally gives us a spontaneously casting magus!!

EDIT 2: Darth Vader guest appearance on page 119!!!

EDIT 3: The Spell Sage wizard archetype can cast bard, cleric, AND druid spells in addition to his normal allotment!

darkwarriorkarg wrote:
I can see this thread will have a balanced approach to the book.

Sarcasm? I did say awesome and broken...


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Looking at the Swashbuckler's precise strike, I realized that it is meant as a platform that makes 1weapon/1handed, sword and board, and throwing builds viable with its precise strike damage on top of their 'not really' weapon training.

And while I have heard a person or two worrying about ACG classes being overpowered.... I honestly find Swashbuckler more balanced than the gunslinger it was based off of. Getting rid of guns and making it salvage some overlooked styles makes it fit in a lot easier into most games without the GM having to worry about Cthulu's touch AC.


Ravingdork wrote:

OMG! The Ecclesitheurge archetype finally gives us an unarmored, wizard-like cleric! Among other things they can prepare their domain spells in their normal spell slots.

I am SO happy with this concept being realized.

Cloth cleric! That demands a happy dance.

<("<) (>")>

Cheers!
Landon


ummm has it come out early or something?


Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
D4rtagnan wrote:
ummm has it come out early or something?

Subscribers are starting to get their PDFs.


Ravingdork wrote:

OMG! The Ecclesitheurge archetype finally gives us an unarmored, wizard-like cleric! Among other things they can prepare their domain spells in their normal spell slots.

I am SO happy with this concept being realized.

EDIT: And the Eldritch Scion archetype for magus finally gives us a spontaneously casting magus!!

EDIT 2: Darth Vader guest appearance on page 119!!!

EDIT 3: The Spell Sage wizard archetype can cast bard, cleric, AND druid spells in addition to his normal allotment!

darkwarriorkarg wrote:
I can see this thread will have a balanced approach to the book.
Sarcasm? I did say awesome and broken...

Well, I can see the next session, or the one right after, will be dedicated to rebuilding characters in one of the two games I'm in.

What are the Paladin archetypes? Do either of them mesh well with archers?


Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The Nature Magic feat is better than Master Artisan in every way since it gives you a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to your character level and only requires 1 rank in knowledge: nature.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Keep it pleasant. This thread is meant to be fun, not vitriolic.


Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I'm not liking the Life Shaman they get more boons leveling up, start with a free ability to Channel where Oracles have to pay for it, and get a free hex to go with it. Oh and later they basically get a free Quick Channel Feat.

The Arcanist is plain out OP. They get a huge bag of tricks but only advance spells one level lower than wizards.

This book convinces me more and more that we need a revised and updated Core Rulebook to update some of the classes and clean up the rules a bit.

I like the ACG but it may have accelerated the problems of bloat and "mudflation" this game already suffers from.


6 people marked this as a favorite.

Yes, it's a huge mystery how the people who post on the Paizo boards are big fans of Pathfinder. We'll never get to the bottom of that one I tell ya.

Webstore Gninja Minion

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Removed a post—please give constructive criticism if you have it, and watch your language, thank you!


Ravingdork wrote:
The Nature Magic feat is better than Master Artisan in every way since it gives you a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to your character level and only requires 1 rank in knowledge: nature.

What spell-like abilities are on the table?


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Soluzar wrote:

I'm not liking the Life Shaman they get more boons leveling up, start with a free ability to Channel where Oracles have to pay for it, and get a free hex to go with it. Oh and later they basically get a free Quick Channel Feat.

The Arcanist is plain out OP. They get a huge bag of tricks but only advance spells one level lower than wizards.

This book convinces me more and more that we need a revised and updated Core Rulebook to update some of the classes and clean up the rules a bit.

I like the ACG but it may have accelerated the problems of bloat and "mudflation" this game already suffers from.

With the sheer number of classes, archetypes, and class-features-via-feats that now exist, I wonder if a classless system isn't the way to go for rules-heavy systems.


I suspect that Pathfinder Unchained will re-establish a level of balance, and the ACG is set to the new level of power balance.

[Edit: I haven't seen the ACG, but that's the impression I get from the product info for the ACG and Pathfinder Unchained]


Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Found a 3rd-level spell that is a "SR no" will save or be helpless for 1 round/level for constructs. Makes golems even more of a joke then they already were.

Alleran wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
The Nature Magic feat is better than Master Artisan in every way since it gives you a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to your character level and only requires 1 rank in knowledge: nature.
What spell-like abilities are on the table?

Constant know direction and one other 0-level druid orison 1/day. But those aren't why you take the feat.


Ravingdork wrote:

Found a 3rd-level spell that is a "SR no" will save or be helpless for 1 round/level for constructs. Makes golems even more of a joke then they already were.

Alleran wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
The Nature Magic feat is better than Master Artisan in every way since it gives you a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to your character level and only requires 1 rank in knowledge: nature.
What spell-like abilities are on the table?
Constant know direction and one other 0-level druid orison 1/day. But those aren't why you take the feat.

Good lord! Yeah, Disable Construct needs to be taken down a notch.

I like the Nature Magic feats, they're an interesting idea to make the Vital Strike chain more appealing.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Charisma to saves at level 5 for any oracle, cleric, inquisitor or person willing to dip 1 level. Madness for the oracle and will make me seriously question dumping charisma on the other two.


Cerberus Seven wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

Found a 3rd-level spell that is a "SR no" will save or be helpless for 1 round/level for constructs. Makes golems even more of a joke then they already were.

Alleran wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
The Nature Magic feat is better than Master Artisan in every way since it gives you a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to your character level and only requires 1 rank in knowledge: nature.
What spell-like abilities are on the table?
Constant know direction and one other 0-level druid orison 1/day. But those aren't why you take the feat.

Good lord! Yeah, Disable Construct needs to be taken down a notch.

I like the Nature Magic feats, they're an interesting idea to make the Vital Strike chain more appealing.

Disable construct seems ok you can already have much the same effect with glitterdust, create pit or aqueous orb.


andreww wrote:
Charisma to saves at level 5 for any oracle, cleric, inquisitor or person willing to dip 1 level. Madness for the oracle and will make me seriously question dumping charisma on the other two.

Cleric and Inquisitor already have such great saves I'm not sure if it's really worth the investment. Oracle is insane with it of course, but otherwise I see it mainly being used by classes that desperately want to get more out of Charisma and will dip Cleric for it (IE Swashbuckler).


I have to wait for it to hit the shelves, but it sounds like it is awesome, though a definite power-creep. How is the feats, if any of you subscribers are willing to divulge? I always loved looking at feats first, then items so I can start figuring on NPC builds.


lemeres wrote:

Looking at the Swashbuckler's precise strike, I realized that it is meant as a platform that makes 1weapon/1handed, sword and board, and throwing builds viable with its precise strike damage on top of their 'not really' weapon training.

And while I have heard a person or two worrying about ACG classes being overpowered.... I honestly find Swashbuckler more balanced than the gunslinger it was based off of. Getting rid of guns and making it salvage some overlooked styles makes it fit in a lot easier into most games without the GM having to worry about Cthulu's touch AC.

I am playing a playtest version Swashbuckler at lvl 14 at this moment and he seems to be very balanced. Gets screwed over by concealment and immunity to precision damage a lot, but otherwise very good. Panache really works well as a waning and waxing resource, much better than grit did.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
andreww wrote:
Charisma to saves at level 5 for any oracle, cleric, inquisitor or person willing to dip 1 level. Madness for the oracle and will make me seriously question dumping charisma on the other two.

Madness? This! Is! Paizo! <kicks andreww into a bottomless pit>

:p


4 people marked this as a favorite.

I wonder when monsters will get an upgrade to keep up with the costant power creep of this game. Right now, the only challenging option left are munckined npc. Put up Bestiary Unchained next in the pipeline.


Arachnofiend wrote:
andreww wrote:
Charisma to saves at level 5 for any oracle, cleric, inquisitor or person willing to dip 1 level. Madness for the oracle and will make me seriously question dumping charisma on the other two.
Cleric and Inquisitor already have such great saves I'm not sure if it's really worth the investment. Oracle is insane with it of course, but otherwise I see it mainly being used by classes that desperately want to get more out of Charisma and will dip Cleric for it (IE Swashbuckler).

How would they (swashbucklers) get 2º level divine spells only by a 1 level dip?

Grand Lodge

Heladriell wrote:


How would they (swashbucklers) get 2º level divine spells only by a 1 level dip?

Presumably by having a 2nd level divine racial SLA.


Exocrat wrote:
Heladriell wrote:


How would they (swashbucklers) get 2º level divine spells only by a 1 level dip?
Presumably by having a 2nd level divine racial SLA.

Or a 2nd level SLA domain ability.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Dekalinder wrote:
I wonder when monsters will get an upgrade to keep up with the costant power creep of this game. Right now, the only challenging option left are munckined npc. Put up Bestiary Unchained next in the pipeline.

Optimized PCs have always torn through standard encounters, and they always will. Because Pathfinder is balanced for players of average skill, not the best.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Heladriell wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
andreww wrote:
Charisma to saves at level 5 for any oracle, cleric, inquisitor or person willing to dip 1 level. Madness for the oracle and will make me seriously question dumping charisma on the other two.
Cleric and Inquisitor already have such great saves I'm not sure if it's really worth the investment. Oracle is insane with it of course, but otherwise I see it mainly being used by classes that desperately want to get more out of Charisma and will dip Cleric for it (IE Swashbuckler).
How would they (swashbucklers) get 2º level divine spells only by a 1 level dip?

Various aasimar and tiefling alternate heritages, the fate inquisition, the trickery domain, the wood mystery revelation bend the grain.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:
For me, it was definitive proof that arcanists were OMG powerful: They can potentially pick up an item creation feat or metamagic feat at every odd level IN ADDITION TO their normal feats!

Just wanted to point out an arcanist can only take the metamagic knowledge and and item crafting exploits once each. "An arcanist exploit cannot be selected more than once," and those two don't have any language making them exceptions.

In keeping with the thread, I like the Champion of the Faith archetype for warpriest - it's pretty clearly the substitute for an "any alignment" paladin.

Now I want to play a chaos-smiting warpriest of the God-Claw for WotR.

Grand Lodge

Zhangar wrote:


Now I want to play a chaos-smiting warpriest of the God-Claw for WotR.

My WOTR paladin has been enjoying the extra daily uses of Smite Evil from Mythic Smite. You won't get that with Champion of the Faith smite, unfortunately. There are some other paladin goodies that you'll look at jealously, too, or hope for GM flexibility.


andreww wrote:
Disable construct seems ok you can already have much the same effect with glitterdust, create pit or aqueous orb.

None of those make the construct helpless, though. Inflicting that condition in combat is pretty much a death sentence for the target. Plus, at least with the other spells, the target has a chance to escape from the effect each round (maybe not a very high one, but it's still there). Also, Aqueous Orb has an upper limit on the size of the target it can engulf, same with the size of the pit that could be created by Create Pit.


Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Zhangar wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
For me, it was definitive proof that arcanists were OMG powerful: They can potentially pick up an item creation feat or metamagic feat at every odd level IN ADDITION TO their normal feats!
Just wanted to point out an arcanist can only take the metamagic knowledge and and item crafting exploits once each. "An arcanist exploit cannot be selected more than once," and those two don't have any language making them exceptions.

lol! Well that certainly makes a difference! :D


Cerberus Seven wrote:
andreww wrote:
Disable construct seems ok you can already have much the same effect with glitterdust, create pit or aqueous orb.
None of those make the construct helpless, though. Inflicting that condition in combat is pretty much a death sentence for the target. Plus, at least with the other spells, the target has a chance to escape from the effect each round (maybe not a very high one, but it's still there). Also, Aqueous Orb has an upper limit on the size of the target it can engulf, same with the size of the pit that could be created by Create Pit.

Blinding a golem is also effectively making it helpless. With no perception skill its chance of locating anyone is negligible. It is also the reason why create pit neuters them, they are stuck with just their strength bonus to climb and are doing so at one quarter of their already slow speed. Aqueous Orb has a size limit but the majority of golems are large.

Disable Construct looks like a decent niche spell for dealing with constructs but my point is that they are already so easy to control for a wizard/sorcerer that I couldn't see myself ever really bothering with this spell.

Scarab Sages

Were there a lot of changes to the final version of the swashbuckler? Is Puss-in-boots a viable character concept? Especially now that Kitsune are going to be playable in PFS?

Sovereign Court

Does the spell make a golem helpless enough to CdG it?


Ascalaphus wrote:
Does the spell make a golem helpless enough to CdG it?

Can't coup de grace it, they're immune to anything requiring a Fort save unless it works on items as well. Since you can't CdG a park bench or a tank, I'm pretty sure that means golems and other constructs are immune too.

My main issue with this spell is that something like an adamantine golem being rendered completely helpless by a simple 3rd level spell for upwards of 2 minutes is kind of nuts. If it at least allowed a save to negate the effect at the end of every round, like Hold Monster does, it'd be better. With crappy construct saving throws, though, most anything this spell targets is almost guaranteed to be rendered helpless if the caster has done anything at all to amp up their primary casting stat. Goes double if they happen to have a lesser persistent MM rod lying around.

Sovereign Court

Hmm, good points.

Personally I like my golems dumb but nearly invulnerable and unstoppable. You should be taking them out by luring them into pits and such, not by raw power.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Cerberus Seven wrote:


Can't coup de grace it, they're immune to anything requiring a Fort save unless it works on items as well. Since you can't CdG a park bench or a tank, I'm pretty sure that means golems and other constructs are immune too.

The auto-crit portion of a CDG works but not the save or die portion.

The Exchange

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Just a side note on golems. This has bugged me for some time now. Why do people think golems are going to be stupid?

If it's the mindless component, I'd like to point out that computers are mindless. There are computers that can outplay chess masters, computer driven war machines that perform better than pilots etc.

I play my golems with increasing capacity for problem solving, like a growing level of programming.

Any way, that doesn't stop the effectiveness of certain spells against them, but was something I've been interested in for some time.

Cheers.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Wrath wrote:

Just a side note on golems. This has bugged me for some time now. Why do people think golems are going to be stupid?

If it's the mindless component, I'd like to point out that computers are mindless. There are computers that can outplay chess masters, computer driven war machines that perform better than pilots etc.

I play my golems with increasing capacity for problem solving, like a growing level of programming.

Any way, that doesn't stop the effectiveness of certain spells against them, but was something I've been interested in for some time.

Cheers.

Mainly it's the description of golems. P. 158 in the bestiary reads as follows: ...Being mindless, golems do nothing without orders from their creators. They follow instructions explicitly and are incapable of complex strategy or tactics...

The Exchange

Kudaku wrote:
Wrath wrote:

Just a side note on golems. This has bugged me for some time now. Why do people think golems are going to be stupid?

If it's the mindless component, I'd like to point out that computers are mindless. There are computers that can outplay chess masters, computer driven war machines that perform better than pilots etc.

I play my golems with increasing capacity for problem solving, like a growing level of programming.

Any way, that doesn't stop the effectiveness of certain spells against them, but was something I've been interested in for some time.

Cheers.

Mainly it's the description of golems. P. 158 in the bestiary reads as follows: ...Being mindless, golems do nothing without orders from their creators. They follow instructions explicitly and are incapable of complex strategy or tactics...

Hehe, I knew I was missing something.

Think I'll keep running them my way, but glad I was informed of that. It's amazing how many times I've read that but completely left that part out. Talk about failed perception check.

Cheers


So, just a question on my part: Is the Arcanist in the actual book substantially different from the playtest version?


Wrath wrote:

Hehe, I knew I was missing something.

Think I'll keep running them my way, but glad I was informed of that. It's amazing how many times I've read that but completely left that part out. Talk about failed perception check.

Cheers

No worries! For what it's worth I think I actually prefer your way of running Golems. They tend to be really disappointing fights if played straight against smart groups.

Sovereign Court

Wrath wrote:

Just a side note on golems. This has bugged me for some time now. Why do people think golems are going to be stupid?

If it's the mindless component, I'd like to point out that computers are mindless. There are computers that can outplay chess masters, computer driven war machines that perform better than pilots etc.

I play my golems with increasing capacity for problem solving, like a growing level of programming.

Any way, that doesn't stop the effectiveness of certain spells against them, but was something I've been interested in for some time.

Cheers.

In addition to the good points made by others...

Obviously golems aren't entirely helpless. They react to their environment. Despite being "mindless", they can be given orders, in natural language even!

Here we bump against the limits of what the game mechanics can handle. The Intelligence score handles "human-ish" intelligence; on a scale of animal to human to superhuman intellect.

Computers are basically, not on that scale.

A cleverly programmed computer can perform complex strategies. But it still doesn't quite function like an actual intelligence yet. (We're trying hard to change that though.)

PF doesn't really bring any tools to model the differences in how well-programmed your mindless machine is compared to how well I programmed my mindless machine.

1 to 50 of 905 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Knee-jerk reactions from the Advanced Class Guide All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.