Joel,
That might be one way.
A-zombie, it was a DICK move but not an unexpected one consider what Savitar clearly knows about the future. Still am pissed it's a fragment of Speed Force, NOT magic.
Stupid...
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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We don't know it's not magic. You'd need someone who knows about magic to determine that. It's being called calcified speed force by people who understand science so make a scientific explanation. If Constantine were to show up and check it out, he might very well say it's magic.
Joel,
Some how I don't think Constantine confused MCU explanations with actual magic.
I'm actually a little surprised they didn't find a way to prevent Iris' death. I mean, the whole season was about finding a way to stop it... and then didn't.
It COULD be erased next week... but I really hope they don't. I don't care for anything involving that character and would love to see her gone.
The big question now is... if they DO bring her back, how will it NOT be just a lame bait and switch/rewind the earth thing that has been absolutely sworn not to do anymore?
On a separate note... Glad to see the time travel WORK this time, showing Barry not COMPLETLEY incompetent AND we get to see some more Snart. SO always a bonus there :D
Phantom,
I like Iris and I think she and Barry NEED to be together to keep him grounded. But that is just me.
I'm not sure how the timing of all this works out, but it did occur to me that it may be possible that it wasn't Iris that died just then.
Consider these points:
1. HR blabs about Iris's location. Feels bad, useless, non-contributory.
2. Barry uses extremely effective tech masking device from HR's world to impersonate Lyla.
3. HR glances significantly at the Savitar talon they have at STAR Labs.
You see where I'm going. What if there was a point along the way where HR could have used his world's masking tech to impersonate and replace Iris, dying in her place in order to make a real contribution to the team?
It changes the "future" they've now caught up with, because Barry won't go into deep despair over losing Iris. Savitar won't immediately cease to exist, but it should buy the team some more time.
It solves the problem of how to get rid of HR, clearing the way for either the return of Earth-2 Wells, or the introduction of yet another Tom Cavanaugh role, or (gasp!) a season without any version of Harrison Wells -- and simultaneously explains why Anne Dudek won't be a series regular despite having just agreed to join Team Flash for HR's sake.
Phantom,
I like Iris and I think she and Barry NEED to be together to keep him grounded. But that is just me.
I agree he needs SOMEONE... but between Felicity, Patty and basically anyone else they've teased as a love interest, I really like Iris the least.
Probably either something about the actress' attitude in the role or the pseudo-incest thing going on... but something about that match up never clicked for me.
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I'm not sure how the timing of all this works out, but it did occur to me that it may be possible that it wasn't Iris that died just then.
Consider these points:
1. HR blabs about Iris's location. Feels bad, useless, non-contributory.
2. Barry uses extremely effective tech masking device from HR's world to impersonate Lyla.
3. HR glances significantly at the Savitar talon they have at STAR Labs.You see where I'm going. What if there was a point along the way where HR could have used his world's masking tech to impersonate and replace Iris, dying in her place in order to make a real contribution to the team?
It changes the "future" they've now caught up with, because Barry won't go into deep despair over losing Iris. Savitar won't immediately cease to exist, but it should buy the team some more time.
It solves the problem of how to get rid of HR, clearing the way for either the return of Earth-2 Wells, or the introduction of yet another Tom Cavanaugh role, or (gasp!) a season without any version of Harrison Wells -- and simultaneously explains why Anne Dudek won't be a series regular despite having just agreed to join Team Flash for HR's sake.
Except that Barry still had the disguise tech when Iris was kidnapped by Savitar. Unless they made a second device.
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Except that Barry still had the disguise tech when Iris was kidnapped by Savitar. Unless they made a second device.
I think the assumption is that a switch from real-Iris to HR-Iris took place during the few seconds that Savitar was running around dodging the Nerf-Bazooka.
That's pretty much the only time it could have happened... because HR was still around after Savitar took Iris. Unless that wasn't really HR... in which case nothing makes sense.
Of course, it doesn't explain how HR could have snuck up unseen and/or gotten real-Iris out of there in just a few seconds.
Or the thing I really can't figure out... where was Julian for the entire episode?
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I can't believe Barry telling them, "Alright guys, I can't know anything about your plan from this point onward," ultimately lead to THAT plan.
I mean... that plan involved Barry being pretty central.
I really hope that the theory about HR switching places is true... not because I dislike HR (he is easily my favorite Wells) but it would at least be a little clever.
Remember also that they made a point earlier in the season of mentioning that Savitar's suit was made of a metal so advanced that the only thing that could pierce it was itself... or something. I know they essentially said that at some point.
I have to imagine that factors in to all this insanity somewhere.
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Remember also that they made a point earlier in the season of mentioning that Savitar's suit was made of a metal so advanced that the only thing that could pierce it was itself... or something. I know they essentially said that at some point.
I have to imagine that factors in to all this insanity somewhere.
Yeah, and they did have that shot of HR staring pointedly at the piece they had. I'm guessing maybe someone is going to stab Savitar with it. Personally, I hope Joe gets to do it.
Someone has to stab Savitar with his own suit. That's all that matters.
I doubt HR had enough time to take Iris' place. But it's POSSIBLE.
Phantom
I don't see is incest, even pseudo-like, because the fact a) THEY AREN'T BIOLOGICALLY related! and b) Iris clearly cared about Barry before they ever got romantically involved.
Now if your problem is the acting for Iris...I can't help you.
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Phantom
I don't see is incest, even pseudo-like, because the fact a) THEY AREN'T BIOLOGICALLY related! and b) Iris clearly cared about Barry before they ever got romantically involved.
Now if your problem is the acting for Iris...I can't help you.
Well, that's where the Pseudo comes in... if they were BIOLOGICALLY related then it would be 100% TRUE incest...
As for the 'caring' bit... that's kind of the problem. She cared for him as a friend and/or Brother. They lived under the same roof, grew up as a family. He switched room so she could skip curfew... that's some serious brother/sister stuff going there...
The other major issue is just HOW MANY Times Joe refers to Barry as 'his son' and then watches him run off to sleep with his daughter... The whole thing is a bit weird.
I love Joe... but I would have much preferred if he wasn't a 'West' and Iris was just the girl he had the crush on down the street or something. The show focuses way too much on how they are all 'Family'... then throws romance into the mix for it to fit smoothly.
Phantom,
Like I said, I can't help you.
Hama,
Maybe but I'm having doubts.
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They could have switched places before Savitar kidnapped her. Or even before she was taken to earth 2.
In theory, but there are several potential problems;
1: Would require two disguise devices. So far as we know, there is only one.
2: Would require Iris being ok with HR dying in her place.
3: Would mean that it was Iris, disguised as HR, who was crushing on Tracy.
4: Would mean that it was Iris, disguised as HR, pretending to have a meltdown over how stupid and useless he is... for giving away where Iris, who isn't Iris, was.
5: Would mean that HR didn't really give away where Iris was... and thus has no reason to be so upset and willing to sacrifice himself.
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Yeah if I'm stashing someone safely away, it's clearly NOT ARGUS or Star Labs. Their security SUCKS.
Alternate Earth or even with the DEO seems better.
I think that assumes it has a powerful enough radius to cover an entire park.
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Or Savitar could just walk around in his nearly invulnerable armor... killing everyone at normal speed.
In any case, even if it would work... more a character oversight than a plot-hole. 'Hide her somewhere in the infinite multiverse' was a pretty good plan... though, 'with our friends that we usually go to', probably wasn't the best choice even before HR gave it away.
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CB,
So...what they should have stuck Iris on Earth-31 aka Supergirl Earth?
I mean it might have worked...but Savitar does have Barry's speed...so he might be faster than Supergirl...
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Just saw this pointed out elsewhere and nearly facepalmed when I noticed the plot hole.
"There is no place on Earth where Iris will be safe from Savitar."
"...Except A.R.G.U.S.?"
*beat*
"What?"
Yeah, I wondered about that as well. A metahuman dampener and King Shark (or Grodd) as unwilling bodyguards for Iris? Savitar wouldn't have had a chance.
HR blabbing makes no sense. Didn't they just have an episode devoted to zapping Barry's memories because of how anything Barry knew, Savitar knew, and didn't Barry just say, like 20 minutes before, not to tell him where they were going to hide Iris? It doesn't matter, in the long run, that HR told the wrong Barry, it matters that he told Barry *at all.* Yeesh.
I'm so over the 'does Savitar kill Iris' plot of the season that I was much more interested in the Killer Frost / Vibe match, which has been foreshadowed (and on the back-burner), IIRC, since the notion of Killer Frost was first introduced, seasons ago. I often like secondary characters more than primary characters, in shows, but in this case, I'm way more interested in what's going on with Caitlin and Cisco than with Barry's latest self-inflicted time/speed metapocalypse.
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CB,
So...what they should have stuck Iris on Earth-31 aka Supergirl Earth?
Or... some nice random Earth that Barry has never even been to.
My point was that if Savitar figured out Iris was stashed on a different Earth (e.g. had HR been less specific about where she was) the first place he would check would be with Wells on Earth-2. Then with Kara on Earth-31. Then maybe Jesse on Earth-3 or Gypsy on whichever Earth that is. Put Iris somewhere else and Savitar would never be able to search the entire multiverse.
CB,
But how do they do that IF they don't know where would be safe? I mean it's safe to be inside a nuclear reactor...doesn't mean that's where you want to stay...
So had HR told the real Barry where Iris was savitar still would of known I feel like the deception was unnecessary. That and makes HR seems even worse.
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I think the deception was only necessary in that the real Barry wouldn't have even asked about Iris. Barry has been having nightmares about the event and has been wracking his brain about it for a while so I would hope that he would be a lot more cautious.
So wouldn't the way to fix all of this be to just not get any remnants when he fights him and poof the guy is gone from history.
So wouldn't the way to fix all of this be to just not get any remnants when he fights him and poof the guy is gone from history.
They brought that up actually earlier, but Savitar stated that their is no guarantee he still wouldn't be around, since time remnants sometimes still stick around (e.g. Thawne)
Yeah it's times like this that I wonder where the Black Flash is...
Or even Time Wraiths...
Yeah this does seem like something a time wratih should be on I mean I don't think it gets to much more paradox-ie then a time circle.
Congratulations Flash you made my 8yr old cry.
I have to say. Iris' death scene was beautifully shot.
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There's a hell of a lot of those to deal with.
Maybe the suite hides him from their detection? he does spend a ton of time in it.
MMC,
That might be it. I dunno. Regardless it's clear there should be more than two or ten time wraiths.
But Bjorn does make the case Black Flash might be busy cleaning up stuff.
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Well, I'll be a suck egg mule.....
Otherwise, I was disappointed.
Barry's attempt to appeal to any hoped for goodness in Savitar was interesting. However, Savitar's attack using the Philosopher's Stone did...what? Nothing really.
Cisco double-crossing Savitar by freeing Jay instead was cool, but the final speedster fight was lame and far too short.
That ending, with Barry moving on into the speed force was extraordinarily lame. I almost dread thinking what kind of nonsense the writer's are going to use to bring him back.
It sounds like that drop line by Savitar about DeVoe was a set up for next season. I thought I heard they might be considering Thinker as a villain. That would be nice. A welcome pace from the never ending parade of speed villains.
It was nice to see Gypsy again, though. And Black Flash.
Yeah I'm with A-zombie...this was a confusing episode. I actually LIKED Supergirl's season ender better. Weird that I would say that...
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I'm watching this on West Coast time, and I'm seven minutes in to the show and I'm just...
HOW IS THIS NOT A PARADOX.
Would it kill the writers to watch Back To The Future and learn how time travel paradoxes work?!
Jem,
At least I didn't post spoilers! :)
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Trying to reserve judgement until the episode is over.
Jem,
I'd give you mine but it's not finished airing so....
Pleased to have been right about HR. I don't usually guess correctly with these things.
Since when does the Speed Force require a prisoner be on hand to stabilize it? That's just dumb. Who did Savitar displace when he was imprisoned?
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Since when does the Speed Force require a prisoner be on hand to stabilize it? That's just dumb. Who did Savitar displace when he was imprisoned?
If I'm working out the convoluted idiocy of the writer's correctly......
It makes perfect sense!!!
Since when does the Speed Force require a prisoner be on hand to stabilize it? That's just dumb. Who did Savitar displace when he was imprisoned?If I'm working out the convoluted idiocy of the writer's correctly......
** spoiler omitted **
It makes perfect sense!!!
I am getting a headache^^