So, I hear a lot of people saying they wish there was a way to make their settlements "stylized". I also have a feeling the taverns would like to have decorations like, say, ogre heads.
Has the possibility been raised of them being decorations purchasable in the Online Store? They could still technically belong to the player who bought them, to prevent people from losing their decorations when the POI/settlement gets wrecked.
Goblin Squad Member
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I have no problem with purchases from the Online Store that are cosmetic and don't give any ingame advantage.
I've also said in other Microtransactions threads that I would like to see one-time use Adventures/Dungeons that can be bought. Basically the person that buys the Adventure and those s/he invites can only run it once. No 6 people buying it and then running it 6 times.
Cosmetic microtransactions are already going to be in the game. This is just a suggestion to merge them with the requests for settlement/tavern decorations.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I absolutely support this. We desperately need that pile of junk in front of Freevale!
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Vanity microtransactions are fine with me. If someone wants to throw money at GW for pretty bunting and fancy hats, I'm all for it.
I am not OK with purchasing content in a subscription-based game. That's F2P territory there.
Cash shop content, including MTX dungeons at some future point, will not be included in the base price of a subscription. I hope you can find a way to be OK with that.
do you have a fitness club membership? Do you think that everything in that building should be free with subscription? Food? Personal trainers? Classes?
No. In fact, I often wonder if we should have subscriptions at all, because of the false impression they give to people like you who think a subscription implies unlimited access. It may do more harm than good.As a subscriber I will not have access to the whole game?
Dont you think thats being a bit greedy?
Will there be a subscription level that that is 'Vegas style all you can eat buffet'?no
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Goblin Squad Member
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Goblinworks is a business, not a charity. If they can make money running a cash shop, more power to them. they have a balancing act to do though. they want to maintain as many subs as possible, and make money "on the side" using the cash shop. there are lots of things they can sell. The balancing act comes in selling lots of stuff that players want to buy, but not the stuff that alienates players to the point of them unsubbing, thereby losing subs fess that is a greater loss than GW is making on the cash shop.
Ryan has stated if a player wants to give GW money, he would be happy to take it. He can't allow one player to buy the whole game for $50 and unbalance game play, so there will be some give and take as they choose what to sell and what not to sell.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nope. I can't find a way to be OK with that. Thanks for your concern, though.
Ultimately it's GW property. How much they allow you to do and access on a subscription base is totally up to GW. There's nothing that says they have to follow existing game MTX models. I personally prefer subscription based, and if they want to throw in extra content that cost's MTX, I'm fine with that, as long as I'm not at a significant competitive disadvantage by not spending the extra money.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A typical quote from Ryan (he's said similar things in other places):
99% of what players will craft will not be sold in the cash shop. Nothing sold in the cash shop will be meaningfully better than things crafted by characters. Nothing in the cash shop will represent advanced crafted items; we're talking about selling simple convenience items and low-powered disposable consumables.
As we've said before, most of the things sold in the cash store will be cosmetic, not mechanical.
I don't know how to be more clear. The cash store is not a substitute for the player economy.
And another:
So, if I have a subscription, what can I expect to be "up sold" on?PLEX.
Hats.
Minor portions of healing.
Dance moves.
Maybe, long down the road, if The Stars Are Right, dungeon modules.
PLEX is training time for additional characters.
Vanity microtransactions are fine with me. If someone wants to throw money at GW for pretty bunting and fancy hats, I'm all for it.
I am not OK with purchasing content in a subscription-based game. That's F2P territory there.
See, this is "pay to win" in my mind.
The tavern owner who pays for decor has a nicer tavern than the one who doesn't.Same thing for anything else.
But what concerns me more is paying for content like dungeons and the loot within. If you don't pay, you don't get (or maybe it's just a whole lot hard to get).
I wish they'd just go to a sub and let the "gets" in the game come from game play and success in that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Vanity microtransactions are fine with me. If someone wants to throw money at GW for pretty bunting and fancy hats, I'm all for it.
I am not OK with purchasing content in a subscription-based game. That's F2P territory there.
See, this is "pay to win" in my mind.
The tavern owner who pays for decor has a nicer tavern than the one who doesn't.Same thing for anything else.
But what concerns me more is paying for content like dungeons and the loot within. If you don't pay, you don't get (or maybe it's just a whole lot hard to get).
I wish they'd just go to a sub and let the "gets" in the game come from game play and success in that.
"Get used to disappointment."
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Simultronics did a good job with special ticket-based adventures. Purchase a ticket and you gain "entry."
Dragonrealms and Gemstone. These two games are worth looking at for a lot of different reasons, not the least of which is how they deal with ticket-based adventures. Their Guide program and support RPing in general is also inspirational.
Microtransactions are nothing new, and they will definitely be present. Just a matter of doing it well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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When it comes to purchasable dungeons, I'm not advocating loot that can be only gotten through the dungeon. I wouldn't care if it goes through the same loot drops non-dungeons use (crafting resources and such). What I would be looking for is something a little bit more elaborate than the typical random dungeon that you might come across in the wilds.
If things go real well, perhaps GW could have a team specifically setup to design dungeons and maybe even accept dungeons from players (after vetting) that can be sold individually. It would be ideal if you only have a couple of hours to spend with friends but want to focus on a dungeon adventure. You could start right away instead of looking for one.
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Simultronics did a good job with special ticket-based adventures. Purchase a ticket and you gain "entry."
Dragonrealms and Gemstone. These two games are worth looking at for a lot of different reasons, not the least of which is how they deal with ticket-based adventures. Their Guide program and support RPing in general is also inspirational.
Microtransactions are nothing new, and they will definitely be present. Just a matter of doing it well.
Exactly the games I was thinking of when I referred to content costing MTX. Their model worked very well IMO. I never felt like I had to do the content, but it was a fun diversion when I did and sometimes resulted in unique items (nothing that would give me a competitive advantage, just something recognizable).
"Get used to disappointment."Vanity microtransactions are fine with me. If someone wants to throw money at GW for pretty bunting and fancy hats, I'm all for it.
I am not OK with purchasing content in a subscription-based game. That's F2P territory there.
See, this is "pay to win" in my mind.
The tavern owner who pays for decor has a nicer tavern than the one who doesn't.Same thing for anything else.
But what concerns me more is paying for content like dungeons and the loot within. If you don't pay, you don't get (or maybe it's just a whole lot hard to get).
I wish they'd just go to a sub and let the "gets" in the game come from game play and success in that.
It's pretty hard to disappoint me these days. It's that whole "been there, done that" thing. I have nothing to lose if they go this route and I just keep looking. Which, honestly, is how I expect it to go.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm not advocating loot that can be only gotten through the dungeon.
I see this issue as "Is a paid dungeon run more profitable than not doing a dungeon run?" If a group of 5 players pays $5 for one two-hour dungeon run and they net say, 1,000 gold, when they could have gotten 1.500 gold worth of minerals mining nodes in the wild instead, the dungeon run was for fun, not profit. As it should be. The dungeon run should be a fun excursion for a tight group of players...they can use unusual skills, try something new, meet a new player and introduce them to the game, play a new role...something different from normal play. I think the dungeons should each tell a story, but that is the roleplayer in me shouting for attention.
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But what concerns me more is paying for content like dungeons and the loot within.
I think it's fair to say you will probably have to pay for dungeon modules, when and if those get into the game. However, "the loot within" is extremely misleading in the context of PFO. There won't be +5 Swords dropping as loot in those dungeons.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Here is Ryan's response to a cash shop criticism in a previous thread Nihimon posted, where Ryan gives a lengthy analysis about players who play, pay, and have excess cash:
The Cash Shop Conundrum . I gotta agree with Ryan that if someone wants to give Goblinworks more money than the subscription fee each month, Goblinworks should find a way for that person to give Goblinworks the money. It IS a business, after all.
(Edit: Saying the above, settlement bling is about as innocuous as you can get. A cool looking statue in the town square that does nothing mechanically, but maybe can be written or, or a pretty fountain, or unusual trees, or a "pet's in the streets" bling for ambiance, or having a town crier that calls out the time, or a street sweeping guy, or kids playing in the square, fishing in the river, or the old man whittling on the porch that fells asleep, or colorful holiday banners for different occasions throughout the year. all this could be programmed once and sold as many times as there was settlement interest in buying it. Ka-ching!)
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Goblin Squad Member
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There's no point arguing about it, business has its laws. Rather than questioning developers we have only ourselves to blame: a lot of people don't mind microtransactions - so there we have them, once enough people will enjoy playing pay-to-win - that's how it will work. The only way to make the game different is to change the community - it is responsible for this happening, not the devs.
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I think looking that how Team Fortress 2 has implemented Mann Vs Machine (Co-op) play. They offer a number of free "practice" games, but if you buy a Ticket to play an official game you will get to keep a larger % of loot from the game than you typical could, and there is even incentive to play more to get achievements which is something PFO will feature very heavily in character advancement.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not to distract the thread, but Simutronics also built the best crafting systems in multiplayer online gaming, IMO. Better than SWG.Really? Now that I might have to go see.
Can you give us a quick example of something they did very well?
Well, prepare for a wall of text. I'll try to make it brief while conveying part of what it was like.
To craft a sword my character had to have enough stamina to stand at the forge for a long time. To refresh myself and avoid heatstroke I had to dowse myself from a bucket of water kept nearby for that purpose. I had to have the strength to use the great billows and judge the right color of the glowing coals, and hold the ingot until it also glowed rightly. I then had to have the strength and stamina to hammer the ingot into a blade on the anvil, a precise number of blows shaping the ingot into a blade blank. Over and over with always a chance to ruin the blade blank.
If successful I would end with a component that bore its own quality factors. If it was good enough I could then use it in the final recipe. I had to craft a high-enough quality hilt in a similarly difficult manner, and modify the crosspiece, the gem on its pommel, and perhaps add an inlaid filigree.
The sword might be damascened steel, and its quality varied with my technique and ingredients to be high or low carbon, or layered like a katana with resilience in the core and high carbon at the edge to take and hold an edge.
Then I had to sharpen and hone the blade.
At any critical step I might cause an error by miscounting the sequence or applying too little or too much pressure.
Similarly fletching an arrow required foraging the right wood, shaping the shaft with a plane, notching with a knife, and affixing the right type of arrowhead (bodkin, broadhead, warhead, etc.) made of the appropriate quality.
When a Ranger makes his own longbow or shortbow it was an accomplishment that meant something. When a Paladin wielded his own handiwork greatsword it was utterly meaningful, especially if he fell on the field of battle and some nefarious thief robbed his corpse.
Naturally his blade could be identified, facilitating accurately exacted retribution (except where the graverobber sold the sword to an unwitting player with more money than sense).
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Goblin Squad Member
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It doesn't sound as if there's much leisure in all that for chatting and socialising during crafting, which Ryan says industry surveys show craft-oriented players (separate from their characters) want. It's easy to see how both can be attractive, but I'm stymied on finding a way to accommodate both groups of "want to craft"ers in one game.