The Flash TV Series


Television

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jemstone wrote:

I'm watching this on West Coast time, and I'm seven minutes in to the show and I'm just...

HOW IS THIS NOT A PARADOX.

** spoiler omitted **

spoiler:

While understanding time travel in the CW shows is inviting madness, I think they have established before that there is often a bit of a lag in the timeline catching up. Savitar knew once Iris survived he was on borrowed time.


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Spoiler:
Didn't the speed force being say that Barry wouldn't be in hell? Maybe it has something else in mind for him.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Also, with multiple timelines and time loops, it's possible to have paradoxes like this actually BE part of the "normal" timeline. The paradox itself, in this case Savitar, gets erased, but the "normal" flow of time is that in an alternate future, Savitar is created, does his Savitar stuff all season, then is stropped from existing, and the timeline now flows on the alternate branch of what is now the future. All the things Savitar did still happened, but from the impact of the alternate Savitar future timeline.

Who said time needs to be linear? The speed force as a time entity certainly seems to suggest otherwise.


Aberzombie wrote:
Damon Griffin wrote:
Since when does the Speed Force require a prisoner be on hand to stabilize it? That's just dumb. Who did Savitar displace when he was imprisoned?

If I'm working out the convoluted idiocy of the writer's correctly......

** spoiler omitted **

It makes perfect sense!!!

You forgot that all of this is because Eobard Thawne, Barry's greatest enemy that never will be, caused Barry to gain his powers five years earlier than should have been. Which is fortunate, since otherwise there would have been no one to combat Zoom. no speedster to travel to Earth-38, thus no speedsters or Kryptonians during the Dominator invasion.

BTW, the cast change I was speculating on has been confirmed as not happening.


Yeah so far time is far from "logic is how things work"

Especially time travel.

As for Barry, Greenie, I don't think Erza's appearance in the movies voids TV/Gustin's atm. How they get him back? Who the hell knows?!!


Green,

I could have told you THAT.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16

lowfyr01 wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
Damon Griffin wrote:
Since when does the Speed Force require a prisoner be on hand to stabilize it? That's just dumb. Who did Savitar displace when he was imprisoned?

If I'm working out the convoluted idiocy of the writer's correctly......

** spoiler omitted **

It makes perfect sense!!!

I am getting a headache^^

The Flash has been doing that for decades the comics are every bit as headache inducing.


Mark,

Yeah but some times it's good when the writers DON'T do that.


Now who was it that said that it would be all three of the flashes versus savitar hmm let me go back and check here.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16

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It was a hell of a lot of fun to watch!


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Yeah I think barry leveled up right before he knocked savi out of his armor.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16

Yup, new speedster class ability Phase Displacement.


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Yeah the Phase displacement and having three Flashes fight Savitar was good.

But the ENDING still troubles me. I guess when the fall season start, we'll see how the writers write themselves out of THIS mess.

Liberty's Edge

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Yeah the Phase displacement and having three Flashes fight Savitar was good.

But the ENDING still troubles me. I guess when the fall season start, we'll see how the writers write themselves out of THIS mess.

Hopefully with new, better writers.


Martin,

That seems...unlikely.


So, the next season of Flash just showed up on Netflix. Is it worth going through?

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16

Yes it most definitely is. It looks like Netflix negotiated a better deal with CW. Arrow, Flash and Supergirl's recent seasons popped up within less than a week of the finales.


The NPC wrote:
So, the next season of Flash just showed up on Netflix. Is it worth going through?

I thought so. Every season has been fun in it's own way.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16

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THOUGH YOU WILL FIND YOURSELF SAYING THIS A LOT


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Mark Thomas 66 wrote:
Yes it most definitely is. It looks like Netflix negotiated a better deal with CW. Arrow, Flash and Supergirl's recent seasons popped up within less than a week of the finales.

So did Legends

Liberty's Edge

I'm a little behind. I just watched episode 1 of last season on Netflix. I have a pretty big logic issue.

Spoiler:
How the heck would Barry have known to find Caitlin in the alternate timeline? He just goes and grabs her. In the alternate timeline, that Barry would have no idea where she was


CapeCodRPGer wrote:

I'm a little behind. I just watched episode 1 of last season on Netflix. I have a pretty big logic issue.

** spoiler omitted **

Ehhh... with the tech and the time that he usually plays with... I'm sure he just googled/facebooked her. misused police power to track a driver license...

really not that hard in a real world let alone a comic world.

It's Flash... the logic issues WILL get worse. ;)

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16

That's exactly what he did. He even smiled when he found her (probably at the fact that it came up "Dr. Caitlyn Snow". Didn't specify what type of doctor. lol)


I'm pretty sure he googled her. But otherwise the logic isn't as terrible as some other stuff.

Also Mark is correct, you will be saying that a good bit.

Even though I had issues in places, I think Season 3 was very, very solidly done.


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Mark Thomas 66 wrote:
THOUGH YOU WILL FIND YOURSELF SAYING THIS A LOT

The start of every other problem in this show:

Anyone else: "Barry, whatever you do, don't do the thing. It will cause terrible things to happen."

Barry, 5 minutes later: "I'm going to do the thing!"


Shadowborn,

Yeah well at least this time it's with foreknowledge. I guess.


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Shadowborn wrote:
Mark Thomas 66 wrote:
THOUGH YOU WILL FIND YOURSELF SAYING THIS A LOT

The start of every other problem in this show:

Anyone else: "Barry, whatever you do, don't do the thing. It will cause terrible things to happen."

Barry, 5 minutes later: "I'm going to do the thing!"

Now we see where Bart gets it.

Sovereign Court

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I've been rewatching the show. So.

Flash Season 2 Episode 21

Barry: Everything happens for a reason, everything we experience makes us who we are, mom dying, you going to prison, every happy moment, every heartache, it's important and I wouldn't change them for the world.

Flash Season 2 Episode 23

Barry; SCREW EVERYTHING I'M SAVING MY MOTHER AND CHANGING TIME COMPLETELY BECAUSE PAIN

Yeah, CW people are idiots.

Dark Archive

Something a friend of mine once observed about another show (many years ago) is how lessons learned at great cost in one episode are so quickly forgotten the next episode. In the particular show where he first noticed it, an uncle and his niece started out in a quasi-adversarial role, and over the course of a couple episodes, in which he saved her life a time or two, they worked it out and were copacetic. And then the next writer came along, and bam, they were fighting again, and made up in that same episode. And then next episode, they were fighting again... It was like the writers of each individual episode had read the character intros at the beginning of the series (in which these two characters were always fighting) and never bothered to review the previous episodes to find out that things had progressed.

I feel like Barry is the same way. Every lesson he learns he seems to forget the second the plot requires him to do something stupid. And the writers are right there with him. Messing with the timeline creates time-wraiths that will hunt you down and nuke you right out of existence. Except when it's Barry messing with the timeline, again, and again, and again, and the time-wraiths are all like 'meh, can't kill him anyway, plot armor too strong.'

That said, Smallville was also terrible for this.

"OMG! I can't let anyone know my secret!" <Pete learns secret, and ends up covering for him.>
"OMG, I must jump through a thousand burning hoops to prevent Lana from learning my secret!" <Lana learns secret, and the terrible consequences are earth-shaking super-sex with a totally-cool-with-it Lana.>
"OMG! Mah turble sekrit!1!" <Bart and Cyborg and Aquadude and Green Arrow 1.0 all learn secret, apocalyptic result is that Clark now has *friends.*>
"OMG! Lois can't learn my secret!" <Audience groans.>

Meanwhile, the dude who was his friend, whom he *didn't* tell his secret to (Lex) figured it out anyway and became his worst enemy *because he kept lying to him.*

I felt the same way when Barry kept lying to Patty Spivot, and she got fed up and bailed to find a man who ran slower, but was faster at telling the truth.

Dark Archive

Set wrote:
Something a friend of mine once observed about another show (many years ago) is how lessons learned at great cost in one episode are so quickly forgotten the next episode. In the particular show where he first noticed it, an uncle and his niece started out in a quasi-adversarial role, and over the course of a couple episodes, in which he saved her life a time or two, they worked it out and were copacetic. And then the next writer came along, and bam, they were fighting again, and made up in that same episode. And then next episode, they were fighting again... It was like the writers of each individual episode had read the character intros at the beginning of the series (in which these two characters were always fighting) and never bothered to review the previous episodes to find out that things had progressed.

(Note: This is primarily written from the perspective of a US viewer. I'm aware that in some other places, there were some serialized TV shows MUCH earlier.)

Until a decade or two ago, with very few exceptions, the reset button was just the way TV was done. Which makes sense, in a way...for a long time, if you didn't see an episode when it aired live, there was almost no way for you to see it before the next episode aired. And if, for some reason, it didn't get rerun, the chances of seeing it again were almost zero (well, at least until they put that show out on DVD). Hell, for the most part even the season premiers and season finales didn't really do anything to shake it up too much.

Fast forward to TV shows on DVDs becoming a big thing, and some shows started to experiment with becoming more serial in nature. Now, with on-demand streaming being a thing, episodic TV shows are the ones that are in the minority.

Set wrote:
I felt the same way when Barry kept lying to Patty Spivot, and she got fed up and bailed to find a man who ran slower, but was faster at telling the truth.

The thing that made that SUPER frustrating was the fact that Patty made it abundantly clear that she had figured out that he was the Flash, and all he had to do was admit to her something she was already aware of. And then Barry decided he WAS going to tell her...but for some reason just didn't get around to it, even she she specifically gave him an opportunity right before she left.


I'm just hoping that they find someone super smart and technically savvy to add to the team. Once they have someone that fits those qualifications, then perhaps they can add some security systems to STAR labs so that people stop just walking in on them. Maybe they could ask Ray Palmer to help them out whenever he's back in their time. If only the team had someone with scientific know-how, or a line on a good locksmith.


Set wrote:

Something a friend of mine once observed about another show (many years ago) is how lessons learned at great cost in one episode are so quickly forgotten the next episode. In the particular show where he first noticed it, an uncle and his niece started out in a quasi-adversarial role, and over the course of a couple episodes, in which he saved her life a time or two, they worked it out and were copacetic. And then the next writer came along, and bam, they were fighting again, and made up in that same episode. And then next episode, they were fighting again... It was like the writers of each individual episode had read the character intros at the beginning of the series (in which these two characters were always fighting) and never bothered to review the previous episodes to find out that things had progressed.

I feel like Barry is the same way. Every lesson he learns he seems to forget the second the plot requires him to do something stupid. And the writers are right there with him. Messing with the timeline creates time-wraiths that will hunt you down and nuke you right out of existence. Except when it's Barry messing with the timeline, again, and again, and again, and the time-wraiths are all like 'meh, can't kill him anyway, plot armor too strong.'

That said, Smallville was also terrible for this.

"OMG! I can't let anyone know my secret!" <Pete learns secret, and ends up covering for him.>
"OMG, I must jump through a thousand burning hoops to prevent Lana from learning my secret!" <Lana learns secret, and the terrible consequences are earth-shaking super-sex with a totally-cool-with-it Lana.>
"OMG! Mah turble sekrit!1!" <Bart and Cyborg and Aquadude and Green Arrow 1.0 all learn secret, apocalyptic result is that Clark now has *friends.*>
"OMG! Lois can't learn my secret!" <Audience groans.>

Meanwhile, the dude who was his friend, whom he *didn't* tell his secret to (Lex) figured it out anyway and became his worst enemy *because he kept lying to him.*

I felt the same way...

Revolution by chance?

And the worst was when Lois was the only cast member that didn't know the secret. The real issue there being too many people knowing the secret ID, because TV writers hate secret IDs.


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Set wrote:


That said, Smallville was also terrible for this.

"OMG! I can't let anyone know my secret!" <Pete learns secret, and ends up covering for him.>
"OMG, I must jump through a thousand burning hoops to prevent Lana from learning my secret!" <Lana learns secret, and the terrible consequences are earth-shaking super-sex with a totally-cool-with-it Lana.>
"OMG! Mah turble sekrit!1!" <Bart and Cyborg and Aquadude and Green Arrow 1.0 all learn secret, apocalyptic result is that Clark now has *friends.*>
"OMG! Lois can't learn my secret!" <Audience groans.>

I think you're forgetting about all the pain and death involved because the rest of the cast couldn't actually KEEP the secret. Heck, Pete only knew for what? Half a season before he acted suspicious and got tortured for the secret and ended up moving out of state in season 4 and only guest starring once more in the next six seasons?

Lana was a trouble magnet before hand, and as soon as she found out she went dark side marrying his worst enemy lex and the series in general started to plummet fast... and she walked away from Clark

Lex also captured Bart and wanted to rip the secret out of him...

So yeah... the idea that them knowing anything was a danger to both them AND himself... was entirely valid and shown on numerous occasions.

My biggest complaint with Smallville and the Raimi Spider-man movies was this idea of 'I can't be with the one I love... because I put them in danger!!! I must stay away from them to keep them safe!!!" Then immediately starts dating the new girl who walks on screen....

GreenDragon1133 wrote:
The real issue there being too many people knowing the secret ID, because TV writers hate secret IDs.

Yep! This is the problem. Having a secret is fine... keeping it from ONE person when the other 5 people in the group... and 4 of your enemies... and all the big bads of the season do... THAT's where it falls apart.


It's when some jerk villain starts wounding the hero's loved ones to blackmail them, that love and secret identity issues get messy. I would like to see a hero's love interest shoot off the back of the head of a villain because they ruined their life.

Maybe a barry and HR show up from earth 9 claiming they are pursuing criminals from their world. Actually they are there to keep outcasts from returning home. They then proceed to put a lock on earth 9 so noone can ever get there.

Seems like a better plan than trying to kill anyone who ever leaves home. Aren't the hunters leaving home and attracting unwanted attention?


The title for the crossover has been announced.

Spoiler:
Crisis on Earth-X. The four shows come together for Barry and Iris' wedding, when Earth-X attacks. Cover also reveals some survivors from Lian Yu.

Hmm, Earth-3 or anti-matter Earth is the mirror universe where good and evil are reversed. Earth-X, the heroes are literally nazis.

Nah. Couldn't be a political reason for that. I really suspect I won't be watching the DCW by the time Black Lightning premieres.


I'll be watching the cross over. It can't be sillier than some others.


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It's not really

Spoiler:
Earth-X for me unless we get the Freedom Fighters.

And I really don't see that happening.


Damon,

It might be! I heard the Ray from there will be in it.


They handle crossovers well.
Does Fish Mooney's blood resurrect people permanently?
I don't buy her death at all.
Maybe fake Bruce will further mutate to be a World Jumper?


Goth,

I wouldn't count Gotham to cross over with anything due to the fact it's been kind of nutty at times.


Perhaps the Ray. Maybe even Phantom Lady in a less skimpy/more practical costume. But Black Condor / Human Bomb / Doll Man / Uncle Sam? I would bet very heavily against it.


Probably not Doll man or Uncle Sam. Certainly NOT the Human Bomb.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

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The Ray is in the poster they released for the crossover event, as well as in the animated show they're making Freedom Fighters: The Ray.


JoelF847 wrote:
The Ray is in the poster they released for the crossover event, as well as in the animated show they're making Freedom Fighters: The Ray.

Huh. Wasn't aware of that one. Apparently Red Tornado is a Freedom Fighter.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16

Shadowborn wrote:
I'm just hoping that they find someone super smart and technically savvy to add to the team. Once they have someone that fits those qualifications, then perhaps they can add some security systems to STAR labs so that people stop just walking in on them. Maybe they could ask Ray Palmer to help them out whenever he's back in their time. If only the team had someone with scientific know-how, or a line on a good locksmith.

Reminds me of the way Merlyn always just shows up in Green Arrow's lair....I'm pretty sure just to piss off Oliver.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16

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Thomas Seitz wrote:

Goth,

I wouldn't count Gotham to cross over with anything due to the fact it's been kind of nutty at times.

I'm still liking the theory that we're watching a slightly modifier Owlman origin in Gotham.


Damon Griffin wrote:
JoelF847 wrote:
The Ray is in the poster they released for the crossover event, as well as in the animated show they're making Freedom Fighters: The Ray.
Huh. Wasn't aware of that one. Apparently Red Tornado is a Freedom Fighter.

Reddy already showed up on Supergirl, and Ma Hunkel's helmet is on the Waverider, so they probably won't use him.


Mark,

Meh. I'd rather consider this some drug induced dream that Grant Morrison had while trying to write Batman RIP.


GreenDragon1133 wrote:
Damon Griffin wrote:
JoelF847 wrote:
The Ray is in the poster they released for the crossover event, as well as in the animated show they're making Freedom Fighters: The Ray.
Huh. Wasn't aware of that one. Apparently Red Tornado is a Freedom Fighter.
Reddy already showed up on Supergirl, and Ma Hunkel's helmet is on the Waverider, so they probably won't use him.

No, I just meant in the animated series. The promo comic cover suggests the Ray will be the only Earth-X hero in the live action crossover.


That was my take as well.

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