Sean Bean heads cast for HBO's A Game of Thrones


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Littlefinger's plan rested on Sansa being in charge of house Stark/Winterfell. That plan died when the bannermen all declared for Jon.


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Kryzbyn wrote:
Littlefinger's plan rested on Sansa being in charge of house Stark/Winterfell. That plan died when the bannermen all declared for Jon.

Kind of ironic since Neds downfall was because he didn't understand southern courts and littlefinger doesn't understand northern honor.

And the white walkers. really hard trying to plan for an out of context threat like that , that would get John snow to ally with ANYONE, even the lanisters, to stop.


Lemmy wrote:
Varys is the new king of teleporting. From Dorne to a ship in half an episode! Freaking amazing He'd make Goku proud!

The voyage from Dorne to Mereen across the narrow sea is what, a couple/few days? It would have taken the dragon queen's armies weeks to prepare for their voyage, which is plenty of time for Varys to return.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
Littlefinger's plan rested on Sansa being in charge of house Stark/Winterfell. That plan died when the bannermen all declared for Jon.

Kind of ironic since Neds downfall was because he didn't understand southern courts and littlefinger doesn't understand northern honor.

And the white walkers. really hard trying to plan for an out of context threat like that , that would get John snow to ally with ANYONE, even the lanisters, to stop.

Indeed. Whereas Littlefinger tried to warn Ned, I don't think Littlefinger got a warning. Unless, the "pretty picture" comment was Sansa's way of saying "not bloody likely" for reasons other than "ew, Littlefinger".


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I really want Cersei's gown from this episode. The Romulan-Sith look works for her.

---

Everyone pretty much commented on most of things I was going to.

I'm glad that Tommen, bullied by Joffrey throughout his childhood and manipulated by everyone else as he grew up, made his final choice by himself and for himself. Nice callback too to the events of the Winterfell tower in the final scene of season 1, episode 1.

I'm pretty sure Bran's and Meera's benefactor must have dropped them off near where the Night's Watch regularly patrol, but leaving them with no gear and no weapons where any wight or White Walker can shamble by?! Dude, you should have gave them your horse; sure it's fast transport for you, but it's not like you really need it.

And since it hasn't been mentioned on the show yet...

Spoiler:
Does anyone else think the Horn of Winter/Horn of Joramun won't turn up in the Winterfell crypt? We know it was Bran, carrying the Night King's mark, that disrupted the Three-Eyed Raven's magical protections against detection. Anyone else think it'll be Bran carrying the mark though the tunnel that cracks the The Wall's enchantments?


Something like that, Ambrosia; I think we're a little too far along in the TV narrative to introduce new artifacts, and something has to happen, lest we get the most anticlimactic ending ever: ". . . And then everyone just stayed inside, safely south of the Wall, until the weather got better on its own."

I imagine the season shortening production costs means we'll never see giant ice spiders either. :(

Dark Archive

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
I really want Cersei's gown from this episode. The Romulan-Sith look works for her.

Ooh, I was wondering what that gown reminded me of, a Romulan commander outfit!


Well, with much better shoulders. :)


Set wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
I really want Cersei's gown from this episode. The Romulan-Sith look works for her.
Ooh, I was wondering what that gown reminded me of, a Romulan commander outfit!

Yeah, it was Cersei's short hair that helped put the Romulan idea in my head.


archmagi1 wrote:

In the show...

The great houses in the show have 2 left with a presumed living named character make heir: Arryn and Lannister.

Tyrell: degenerates to cousins. The true line extinguished.
Martell: extinguished
Baratheon: extinguished

Hmmm... Now that I think about it, the Martells might actually survive if one of Oberyn's bastards takes the name and/or gives it to their son. Dorne doesn't require a male heir to rule/inherit the name (Doran, Oberyn and Elia were Martell from their mother's side). And kings/queens can "remove the taint of bastardom", so Daenerys could save the Martell name.

Baratheons are gone, though... Well, their genes do live in a few bastards here and there. ><'
(I suppose it's not impossible for Gendry to be legitimized, but that seems very, very unlikely).

archmagi1 wrote:
Stark: Bran won't ever lay claim and the heir (Rickon) just got an arrow. Sansa Lannister Bolton just lost her claim to a Snow.

In any case, the Stark name would be gone next generation, unless she convinces whoever marries her to let her give her last name to their sons.

archmagi1 wrote:
Targaryen: Dany maintains a lady's claim by force of arms. Jon is not legitimate.

Actually... We don't know that. Lyanna was gone for over an year. More than enough time to get married (forcibly or not. We don't know the precise nature of her relationship with Rhaegar). Of course, if that's the case... He's a Targaryen, not a Stark, and therefore the Stark name is gone anyway, unless Bran decides to go back... Or at least have a son and leave him in Winterfel. :P

If the nature of Jon's birth are ever revealed, I predict Jon would rather keep the Stark name and let Daenery's sit in the Iron Throne... They even have a couple commons friend to intermediate the deal. And Jon does have the approval of Jorah's family, if that means anything...

EDIT: While no one who heard it survived to tell the tale, Jon was legitimized as a true Stark by Robb shortly before the Red Wedding.


Kryzbyn wrote:
So, I wonder if Arya is going to go down her list...

Well, according to the rules that were previously shown to be true, she should be going blind rather quickly after Frey's death.

But it's Arya, so her ridiculously strong plot armor won't allow it.


Lemmy wrote:
archmagi1 wrote:

In the show...

The great houses in the show have 2 left with a presumed living named character make heir: Arryn and Lannister.

Tyrell: degenerates to cousins. The true line extinguished.
Martell: extinguished
Baratheon: extinguished

Hmmm... Now that I think about it, the Martells might actually survive if one of Oberyn's bastards takes the name or gives it to their son. Dorne doesn't require a male heir to rule/inherit the name (Doran, Oberyn and Elia were Martell from their mother's side). And kings/queens can "remove the taint of bastardom", so Daenerys could save the Martell name.

Baratheons are gone, though... Well, their genes do live in a few bastards here and there. ><'
(I suppose it's not impossible for Gendry to be legitimized, but that seems very, very unlikely).

archmagi1 wrote:
Stark: Bran won't ever lay claim and the heir (Rickon) just got an arrow. Sansa Lannister Bolton just lost her claim to a Snow.

In any case, the Stark name would be gone next generation, unless she convinces whoever marries her to let her give her last name to their sons.

archmagi1 wrote:
Targaryen: Dany maintains a lady's claim by force of arms. Jon is not legitimate.

Actually... We don't know that. Lyanna was gone for over an year. More than enough time to get married (forcibly or not. We don't know the precise nature of her relationship with Rhaegar). Of course, if that's the case... He's a Targaryen, not a Stark, and therefore the Stark name is gone anyway, unless Bran decides to go back... Or at least have a son and leave him in Winterfel. :P

If the nature of Jon's birth are ever revealed, I predict Jon would rather keep the Stark name and let Daenery's sit in the Iron Throne... They even have a couple commons friend to intermediate the deal. And Jon does have the approval of Jorah's family, if that means anything...

EDIT: While no one who heard it survived to tell the tale, Jon was legitimized as a Stark shortly before the Red Wedding.

I totally concur about Jon taking the Stark name. It's important to remember that Bran is the only one who knows the truth, and he'll start ranting about the King of the Night and the Three Eyed Raven way before he even gets to warging into trees.

Though, now that you mention it, I suppose Jon is the legitimate heir to the Iron Throne. Well, illegitimate heir, maybe, but direct inheritor. Hmmm.


Well, if A Man ain't there to strike her blind...
I also understood the smirk on his face when she left, that she actually had his blessing. They weren't training her to be a faceless man, but to go back and effect change in Westeros. They wound her up and let her go.


Hitdice wrote:
I totally concur about Jon taking the Stark name. It's important to remember that Bran is the only one who knows the truth, and he'll start ranting about the King of the Night and the Three Eyed Raven way before he even gets to warging into trees.

Well... There's also Howland Reed... Supposedly, he's still alive in the show. Hearing about Jon Snow becoming the King in the North might convince him to finally show up and possibly reveal the truth... I just don't know who he'd reveal it to.

Hitdice wrote:
Though, now that you mention it, I suppose Jon is the legitimate heir to the Iron Throne. Well, illegitimate heir, maybe, but direct inheritor. Hmmm.

If Rhaegar and Lyanna didn't get married, he's not a heir, since bastards don't inherit anything... But I think Rhaegar meant to marry Lyanna (he was expecting to win the war, after all, and considering all the trouble the Blackfire Pretenders caused, I don't think he'd want a bastard).

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Oh I forgot one great house. The Tullys are alive and "well" with a male heir (Edmure). So that's three of the seven (8) with an inheritable male heir.


Lemmy wrote:
Hitdice wrote:
I totally concur about Jon taking the Stark name. It's important to remember that Bran is the only one who knows the truth, and he'll start ranting about the King of the Night and the Three Eyed Raven way before he even gets to warging into trees.

Well... There's also Howland Reed... Supposedly, he's still alive in the show. Hearing about Jon Snow becoming the King in the North might convince him to finally show up and possibly reveal the truth... I just don't know who he'd reveal it to.

Hitdice wrote:
Though, now that you mention it, I suppose Jon is the legitimate heir to the Iron Throne. Well, illegitimate heir, maybe, but direct inheritor. Hmmm.
If Rhaegar and Lyanna didn't get married, he's not a heir, since bastards don't inherit anything... But I think Rhaegar meant to marry Lyanna (he was expecting to win the war, after all, and considering all the trouble the Blackfire Pretenders caused, I don't think he'd want a bastard).

I thought Jojen (show Jojen) said Howland died at some point before they reached the Wall, but don't quote me on that, I could be wrong.


Well...Danaerys will probably legitimize the Sand Snakes, The Tyrells probably have cousins or other branches to carry the name, and for all we know Varys has Gendry stashed somewhere to pull out to rally the Stormlands.

I would say only the Boltons are for sure extinguished at this point.


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Kryzbyn wrote:
Frey's line is cooked.

SHAME! SHAME!


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last person that said that got Gregor'd...


Danerys: "You want me to lead my army deep into your territory because an army undead are being lead by a thousand year old magical experiment bent on killing us all.

John: Yes.

Danerys: Are you insane?

John: Perhaps I should go tell the night king i need his help because some lady just flew on in three fire breathing dragons and see if he thinks the same thing..

Danerys.... touche.


BigNorseWolf wrote:

Danerys: "You want me to lead my army deep into your territory because an army undead are being lead by a thousand year old magical experiment bent on killing us all.

John: Yes.

Danerys: Are you insane?

John: Perhaps I should go tell the night king i need his help because some lady just flew on in three fire breathing dragons and see if he thinks the same thing..

Danerys.... touche.

It irks me that the guy called "Big Norse Wolf" would misspell Jon's name. ><'

(And White Walkers are at least 8000 years old, IIRC).


BTW... Was there any reason for stabbing Pycelle? I mean... Wouldn't he have blown up with the others anyway?

(Also... Wasn't he loyal to the Lannisters?)


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Lemmy wrote:

]It irks me that the guy called "Big Norse Wolf" would misspell Jon's name. ><'

.

Really? You expect spelling out of your local canids? How good are your obedience schools?


Not to Cersei, though; that's worth an individually specific stabbing right there!


Lemmy wrote:

BTW... Was there any reason for stabbing Pycelle? I mean... Wouldn't he have blown up with the others anyway?

(Also... Wasn't he loyal to the Lannisters?)

He turned on cersei after her walk of shame and suggested that they put greggor down.

In the books the creepy kids stabbed kevin, but no one knows who he is so they used pycel.

As a maester he's not part of the church hierarchy: they're a seperate institution. I don't think he would have had a place in a formal church court.

He also doesn't Like qybern and has made moves against him.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
]It irks me that the guy called "Big Norse Wolf" would misspell Jon's name. ><'
Really? You expect spelling out of your local canids? How good are your obedience schools?

Not good enough, apparently.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Lemmy wrote:

BTW... Was there any reason for stabbing Pycelle? I mean... Wouldn't he have blown up with the others anyway?

(Also... Wasn't he loyal to the Lannisters?)

He turned on cersei after her walk of shame and suggested that they put greggor down.

In the books the creepy kids stabbed kevin, but no one knows who he is so they used pycel.

As a maester he's not part of the church hierarchy: they're a seperate institution. I don't think he would have had a place in a formal church court.

He also doesn't Like qybern and has made moves against him.

Wasn't he on his way to the trial, though?


Like I said three posts above, she wanted Pycell to understand the utter crapiness of his final reward, rather just die instantly in an explosion, you know?


Hmmmm.. any chance Littlefinger going over to the nights king if his deal with sansa goes south?


Quote:
The voyage from Dorne to Mereen across the narrow sea is what, a couple/few days? It would have taken the dragon queen's armies weeks to prepare for their voyage, which is plenty of time for Varys to return.

Nope. Meereen is three thousand miles from Westeros. It's not even on the Narrow Sea, it's on the Summer Sea along Essos's south coast. On a medieval sailing ship, it's maybe a month's voyage with favourable winds. And it's not a trip you make easily, as you have to sail right around the volcanic peninsular of Valyria through pirate-infested waters. The show has seriously lowballed the logistical challenges faced in moving armies around by sea. There's a reason why, 1066 excepted, Britain has never faced a successful nautical invasion despite being only 25 miles from Europe across the Channel and often massively outnumbered by its enemies.

Of course, Daenerys now has a safe landing spot in Dorne which will help things a lot.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Hmmmm.. any chance Littlefinger going over to the nights king if his deal with sansa goes south?

Heh... "Goes south".


*whistles innocently*


Man... I'm sad that we now have nearly a whole year of waiting. :(

Specially now that Daenerys F@%&ING FINALLY decided to go to Westeros. ><'


Norman Osborne wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
So, I wonder if Arya is going to go down her list...

Well, according to the rules that were previously shown to be true, she should be going blind rather quickly after Frey's death.

But it's Arya, so her ridiculously strong plot armor won't allow it.

one slight difference.

She would have had to have made that particular face herself since I doubt they let her take a bunch from the hall when she said "FU guys I'm going home"

She went blind because she took a face without permission.

She didn't go blind because she made the face herself and thus automatically has permission.

which does of course mean there is a dead girl someplace with her face skinned off.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Hmmmm.. any chance Littlefinger going over to the nights king if his deal with sansa goes south?

I don't believe negotiation is with the Night King's skill-set, but I would absolutely love to see where Littlefinger ends up for trying. /justdesserts


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Greylurker wrote:


which does of course mean there is a dead girl someplace with her face skinned off.

It's also possible she got her third level of facelessman prestige class and doesn't need to use the faces anymore.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Greylurker wrote:
which does of course mean there is a dead girl someplace with her face skinned off.
It's also possible she got her third level of facelessman prestige class and doesn't need to use the faces anymore.

Well... Unless she spent some time doing extra practice after the whole "I'm Arya Stark of Winterfel" speech, she can't transform without a mask (or she'd have done it when running from the waif).

IMO, she either learned how to make a face mask or simply took a face when she left... After all, Jaqen didn't search her... Nor did he seem bothered by her leaving.

- - -

Unrelated, but since it takes years to become a maester, I'm guessing Sam will have his training interrupted for some reason... Possibly his father... Also, he'll have to learn morr and teach otherd about the WW.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I really think his (sams) entire arc for the citadel is to discover how to cast the spells to forge new valyrian steel. There will soon be 3 dragons in westeros for part of the magic, and gendry who's boat rowing skills are only matched by his apprenticeship to one of three living smiths able to work existing valyrian. When team ice and team fire finally join up in final act, they'll be churning out dragonsteel blades for the battle for dawn.


I think Sam will be sending off messages rather than leave himself.


Whats irritating about Sam to me...

He has to get super pissed before he does anything decisive, and it's always after the fact.
Pro-active Sam would be a welcomed Sam.

But that's not the Sam we have, I guess.


archmagi1 wrote:
I really think his (sams) entire arc for the citadel is to discover how to cast the spells to forge new valyrian steel. There will soon be 3 dragons in westeros for part of the magic, and gendry who's boat rowing skills are only matched by his apprenticeship to one of three living smiths able to work existing valyrian. When team ice and team fire finally join up in final act, they'll be churning out dragonsteel blades for the battle for dawn.

I don't think the Citadel has that knowledge... Otherwise they'd be using it. Besides... It's much easier and faster to make weapons and ammo of "dragon glass".


Lemmy wrote:
Besides... It's much easier and faster to make weapons and ammo of "dragon glass".

join our army and stab the undead abominations with a rock...

What?!?!?!? Hell no!

Join our army and get a valyrian steel sword....

Take my sons, please.

The thing is that dragonglass only works against the white walkers, it doesn't work against the dead that they raise.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Besides... It's much easier and faster to make weapons and ammo of "dragon glass".

join our army and stab the undead abominations with a rock...

What?!?!?!? Hell no!

Join our army and get a valyrian steel sword....

Take my sons, please.

The thing is that dragonglass only works against the white walkers, it doesn't work against the dead that they raise.

How about "Join my army and shoot arrows/bolts of dragon glass at the white walkers from a safe distance".

Wights can be killed with fire... And as far as we know, they aren't particularly vulnerable to valyrian steel. The knowledge of how to create valyrian steel has been lost for ages... Sam is smart, but he isn't that smart.

Besides, if history teaches us that how costly the production of an weapon is matters much more than how effective it is. There's no guarantee that they'll be ever be able to create valyrian steel again... But they have tons of obsidian in Dragonstone.

Sovereign Court

From what I read the few smiths alive who can work with Valyrian steel can only reforge it, but not make it. My guess is valyrian steel needs a certain amount/type of magic to be created. A few other things have become incredibly weak over time, but are now on the rise. For instance, wildfire suddenly is much more potent again, the warlocks illusory magic has become more powerful, priest are raising the dead, etc. Not sure if it coincides with the return of dragons or if that too is part of magic's return to the world. Mayhaps, it has something to do with that comet? Anyways, I imagine with magic returning, we could see the old secrets of Valyrian steel revealed.


Something in the series i've always wondered is if dragons bring the magic, or if they ride out low magic periods the way a frog rides out droughts by leaving eggs behind ready to rehydrate.

Pyatt pree saying that the magic was strongest around the dragons indicates the first one, but i like the second a lot better.


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Regarding Valyrian steel:

Spoiler:
It's widely theorised that forging Valyrian steel requires a human sacrifice. The Westerosi blacksmiths have lost the knack of it forging it because they don't know about it - fire and blood is needed, not just fire itself - and might balk at sacrificing people to forge more blades.

Similar thing with the dragon eggs, they only hatched after Mirri Maz Duur was sacrificed along with them and Dany took her walk of faith into the flames. It does beg the question why the eggs at Summerhall didn't hatch, but that may have been because the deaths were accidental rather than a deliberate sacrifice.


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Lemmy wrote:
archmagi1 wrote:
I really think his (sams) entire arc for the citadel is to discover how to cast the spells to forge new valyrian steel. There will soon be 3 dragons in westeros for part of the magic, and gendry who's boat rowing skills are only matched by his apprenticeship to one of three living smiths able to work existing valyrian. When team ice and team fire finally join up in final act, they'll be churning out dragonsteel blades for the battle for dawn.
I don't think the Citadel has that knowledge... Otherwise they'd be using it. Besides... It's much easier and faster to make weapons and ammo of "dragon glass".

They no doubt do but suppress it. The studying of magic ends with someone put in a room with a candle and told to light it with magic. No one has done it, or no one we know of. I suspect if someone does light with magic, they are killed.


Werthead wrote:

Regarding Valyrian steel:

** spoiler omitted ** [/QUOTE

I think in the books there were Mines over in Mereen's country that were essentially large scale sacrifice altars for VSteel


MannyGoblin wrote:
They no doubt do but suppress it.

No doubt? There's no evidence that anyone can create Valyrian steel. As far as we know, it's a lost craft.

MannyGoblin wrote:
The studying of magic ends with someone put in a room with a candle and told to light it with magic. No one has done it, or no one we know of. I suspect if someone does light with magic, they are killed.

Actually... No. That "say in a dark room trying to light candles that never light up" is a standard test for all maesters. Even those who don't study any mystical arts.

Valyrian steel wouldn't be called valyrian steel if others could do it. Most of the knowledge and technology of Valyria was completely lost when the Doom came.

In the books there are blacksmiths from... Ib (?) (I don't remember where) Who claim to be able to recreate valyrian steel... And that's it.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I dunno, I know a good rubber factory, they can probably make a good stab at it. :-)

It's okay, I'll show myself out. :-)

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