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I'm sure this has been lampshaded before, but I really like that every once in a while I see this thread pop up in the sidebar and I think "Are people really still hyped that Sean Bean was in the first season?".
Sean Bean certainly still is :)
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Sorry ... 'lampshaded'?
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Heh, yeah ... I'd never heard that term before in my life ...Sorry ... 'lampshaded'?: )
You should go on this site and have a pleasant reading. I love it.
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You should go on this site and have a pleasant reading. I love it.Heh, yeah ... I'd never heard that term before in my life ...Sorry ... 'lampshaded'?: )
... and he was never heard from again.
All right! First episode of season 7 is tonight! Cautiously hopeful that it will be good despite being new ground.
Got an HDPC error or something on some of their videos.
When i called tech support... tech supports computers were busted.
Yeah, HBO really needs to finish giving the series to hulu
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My favorite long lost character is coming back!
My favorite long lost character is coming back!
** spoiler omitted **
$10 says she tries in the next episode so the show won't have to pay for the CG anymore.
$10 says she tries in the next episode so the show won't have to pay for the CG anymore.
I'll take that bet. They don't tend to die till their partners do something dishonorable and
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That's really why they cut the episode number is to bump the CGI budget. Though they could really have done better with the CG Glaze over Berric's eye. With Martin's comment that Berric is essentially a fire wight at this point, and the trailer scene of them fighting WW's with Jon, I'm gonna guess that he gets got by an ice sword and explodes in (un)holy R'hllor fire.
Arya's reluctance to me harkens back to the rapey feel of her arc in season 2. She was gauging the situation on whether she needed to water dance over their rapist bodies to gain some faces or just hang out with some age appropriate folks for once.
Joanna Mormont and Sandor Clegane get all the best lines.
Good episode though. "The North remembers"
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Joanna Mormont and Sandor Clegane get all the best lines.
Who needs lines? Let your bodycount do the talking.
With Martin's comment that Berric is essentially a fire wight at this point, and the trailer scene of them fighting WW's with Jon, I'm gonna guess that he gets got by an ice sword and explodes in (un)holy R'hllor fire.
So, about the prophecy of Azor Ahai's return... Is everyone still convinced that Azor Ahai will be
Jon Snow? The theory I keep hearing is: Jon dies again at a big ice wight & White Walker battle (around Eastwatch probably, as the show is foreshadowing). Beric Dondarrion gives up his life to resurrect Jon (either with or without Thoros of Myr's assistance), and viola, Jon is Azor Ahai.
But... everyone is pretty sure Jon, as the son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen, is already one of the "three heads of the dragon". So, what if, instead of Jon (or Daenerys) being Azor Ahai, it is instead... Sandor Clegane? Martin told Dan Weiss and David Benioff who Azor Ahai is, and it felt like there was something more being hinted at in last night's scene where the Hound saw visions in the fire. Then there was Sandor's clear regret for his actions and the conversation over Beric's lack of "specialness" just made it feel like some big development is coming for Sandor. Sandor survived burns in his childhood which likely would have killed most other children. I know we all still hope for CleganeBowl to happen at some point, but if Gregor's undeadness is somehow connected to the ice necromancy/force reanimating the wights & White Walkers, it'd make meta-narrative sense for a R'hllor-empowered Sandor to be the one to finally confront him.
I know, I know, I'm probably reading too much into it.
Edit: I know Thoros and Melisandre have seen visions in the flames, but has Beric seen them? If he hasn't and Sandor has, that might also hint at Sandor being something more or chosen by R'hllor.
Two people are azure guy. The real title is "A song of fire and ice".
Danary's made the dragons come to life through stone. She has died and lived again (she walked off of a funeral pyre, thats a one way trip) (fire)
Johns died and lived again (ice)
In the valarian language, dragon has no gender. Likewise either does prince.
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AA conjecture:
The whole Azor Ahai Reborn situation, at least in the show, is narrowing down quite a bit, with the promo footage pretty much putting Jon, Thoros, Berric and Sandor all at Eastwatch against the WW's.
Berric giving his flame up to rez Jon is a real possibility, especially since Berric gave his flame to rez Catlyn in the books. Keeping the much more interesting Berric alive insead of Lady Stoneheart has always been a bit weird if not CG saving for the show, and thematically ending Berric in the same 'way' as the books fits many of the abridged type changes that the show has done in the past.
as far as Sandor is concerned:
I don't know if Berric has seen any visions in the flames, but I figure he gained visions as Thoros stood by. Thoros, at least in the books, had completely lost his faith before being granted the breath of life. The scene in the show between him and Mel still implied to me that he himself lacked the fire-sight.
But as for the fire-sight, the priests themselves seem to not be getting vivid messages like bystanders. Mel had her visions, visions which only ever showed Stannis or Jon, and nothing else really productive; but when Stannis the Mannis stared into the flames, he saw the threat of the Other in the north. Mel had him gaze into the flames as Thoros had Sandor. The R'hllor priests seem to get their flame vision exposition from 3rd parties and interpret it to best fit their plans or theology.
HOWEVER, you do bring up a very interesting point about Sandor. In the book, Gregor shoved his face into a brazier of hot coals. Even if not an open flame as the show has implied, it is a burn bad enough to kill, and him surviving is something.
Gregor is a science zombie like wildfire is a science dragon. They are anathema to magic, and while that would provide a good narrative, I think the last vestige of Gregor standing in the way of the Valonquar as he chokes the life out of Cersei is just as compelling.
Well, we don't see much of him in the penultimate episode and none in the following one.
I more meant that Sean Bean (and Jason Momoa for that point) have spent the past six years talking repeatedly about how they'd love to come back, even though it's impossible :)
Valonqar theory
As noted a page or two ago, I'm sold on Jaime Lannister. For one, he's the easiest to write in as doing it, and it ties his own through line in the plot to the overarching plot. He's really prepped to do this in so many ways.
1. He's killed a monarch before.
He's the kingslayer. No one told Jaime to do it. When the city was being sacked, Aerys ordered a pyromancer to blow the city up and Jaime stopped the pyromancer, and then killed the king to stop him from issuing the order again. The point is that when faced with a monarch who is willing to commit mass murder, Jaime is willing to kill them to stop it.
2. Jaime's changed personality.
Jaime started as arrogant. He believed he owned the world. Slowly, his family has crumbled and they're losing everything. He's become more humble, and easier to relate to for the audience. He still projects an air of being larger than life, but the audience is on the fact that he's bluffing. We already know that he's lost that part of his personality and is just relying on other people not knowing yet. Meanwhile, the audience liked Tyrion at the start, but he's slowly becoming larger than life (though he's still charming and the audience will always love him). To watch Jaime kill his last (or second to last) family member is going to hurt for the audience. We'll be glad that Cersei is dead, but the emotional payoff is going to hurt to watch Jaime do it (assuming they do it well).
3. Jaime has every opportunity.
He can travel north and south, across a sea if necessary, but he's intimately tied to the King's Landing arc. It is super easy to put him in a location with Cersei, because they're bound by so much. They're all that each other has any more. Cersei can stay in KL, while Jaime goes north and sees the WWs. Then he comes back, knows the threat is real, Cersei orders him to kill too many people, he ends her knowing she's willing to sacrifice the kingdom to keep her crown.
4. Jaime completes a circle.
Jaime killed the last Targaryen, ending their rule of Westeros. If he kills the last non-Targeryen monarch and returns the Targaryens to power, he completes a circle. He could even win his survival (though I doubt it) if he does it. Once he's killed his own sister to help the Seven Kingdoms, no one can accuse him of being disloyal to the kingdoms themselves. He might not stay in the kingsguard, but his chances of a pardon go way up. That being said, I'd assume he dies before the series ends, perhaps before anyone knows he killed Cersei (or within the same scene).
5. Jaime is Cersei's little brother.
Yes, they're twins, but Jaime was born second.
6. A lot of people won't expect it.
I could be wrong. So much can happen in this series, it's hard to make accurate predictions more than an episode or two out.
I will say this about Cleganebowl, if it's going to happen, we'll get an indication in an episode or two. Some hint that Sandor is going to head south, instead of north, or Cersei is taking Clegane and her army to the North. Cleganebowl is too big of a thing to happen to not set it up. It won't be a surprise. Someone is going to fight the Mountain, but until it's teased they'll be in the same location, I wouldn't bet on Sandor.
"Azor Ahai's return" spitballing:
The reason I asked if Beric saw visions was I wasn't sure Stannis had either. Sure, Mel made him stare into the flames, but he did so quietly without speaking about anything he saw (or didn't see). Stannis seemed to accept that Mel at least believed she saw visions and believed he was the destined ruler, but did he himself actually see anything? I was never sure if he did, or if he was canny enough to play along as long as it served his ambition and ultimate goals.
"Valonqar" spitballing:
Jaime is far from being good, but like Irontruth laid it out, I think he'll be the one that kills Cersei when it's clear she's a huge threat to the Realm or at least the innocents of King's Landing. I don't think she has depleted all the reserves of wildfire, and/or Qyburn is busy making more.
I'm also not convinced that Ser Strong is a "science" zombie regardless of what has been claimed. Qyburn is pragmatic enough to use what works to achieve the desired ends regardless of the means. And a necromantic/magical zombie would make a nice set of remote eyes, or a remotely-controlled means to kill/turn whomever is sitting on the Iron Throne, for the Night King. If Cersei is animated as the Night King's servant, it's too bad Jaime gave away his Valyrian steel sword.
But then I erroneously thought Bran carrying the Night King's mark through The Wall would bring it down too.
Clarke's third law: Any sufficiently advanced science is indistinguishable from magic.
The maesters approach magic scientifically, but if a spell/ritual/effect can be repeated under specific conditions, it's really no different from science. In a lot of ways, magic is just a rewriting of the laws of physics.
Gregor's creation process was shown, but not really explained. People can't see their breath around him though, so he's much too warm. It could be that he's a combination pryomancy/children magic/wight magic. We know dragonglass changes the wight transformation. It might be a corruption of the Lord of Light's method as well, or a mix of the two.
Ambrosia : we don't know if that last bit is true or not. A few comments from a LOT of different people are hint hinting that that may be the case
A brief Melisandre prediction for this season:
No conclusive evidence for this, but it makes sense to me at the moment, so it's probably wrong.
Melisandre is on her way south and will be in the Riverlands in one of the next couple episodes where she encounters someone. I have two potential meetings.
Beric, Thoros, and Sandor. They're going north and restore her faith,
obviously something dramatic will happen, but she'll tell us more about what is going on with Beric and perhaps some indication of what is going on with Sandor. Conversely, she might see doom and gloom and continue going south.
Alternately, she encounters Arya. They're in the same region,
and characters in the same region are easy to put together. Melisandre is on Arya's list for buying Gendry (who, last we saw was in the dungeon at Dragonstone, so is either in Daeny's possession or dead now). If they meet, I predict Arya fails at killing her, since she's protected by powerful magic. If this sequence of events happens, Melisandre returns to the North, convinced she's protected from death by the Lord of Light for a purpose.
We didn't see her in the opening episode, but I think she's going play a role in future events as a mouthpiece of exposition for what is happening with the Lord of Light.
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Gendry's been rowing a boat since before Stannis the Mannis headed north. Davos let him out of prison before Mel could sacrifice him as King's Blood.
At this point, she's (Arya) shown that she has the full powers of a Faceless Man, whether sanctioned by a mortal or not. She is, for all intents and purposes, an avatar of a magical entity, in my opinion on another tier from a borderline heretic (basically banished to Westeros in the books for unspecified bad things in Asshai) fire priestess. Mel is a survivor, and even if they did meet in a hostile moment, I figure she (Mel) will either mildly revere and pledge fealty (as Many Faced God is part R'hllor) to survive, or weasel out a platitude that keeps Arya from going Death Goddess all over her.
Though to be realistic, she's going to probably show back up at Dragonstone and take over R'hllor priesting for Dany.
You're right, I forgot about that.
Melisandre is still a powerful force and has survived for a long time. I wouldn't count her out in a 1 on 1 versus anyone. Not to say she isn't killable, but it's already established that she's often one step ahead of those who would kill her. The limits of her power have not been established, because even when she doubted herself, she succeeded.
Your other direction for her is plausible. I don't know if she'd be accepted though. Daenerys doesn't seem to have a lot of use for someone like the Red Witch (personality wise), plus she doesn't represent a political force in Westeros to capitalize on.
It could be something neither of us is expecting too.
A certain horn?
In the books, he sent Victarion with the horn - Dragonbinder - to Meereen to capture one or more dragons.
In the show, Victarion seems to have been trimmed from the family tree. They haven't said Dragonbinder exists, but they might just be waiting to reveal that only when it's important.
If it isn't a dragon, it's probably either a victory in battle or one of Cersei's enemies. Euron is a bit of a mischievous character so far, using deception to get what he wants, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's hiding something major up his sleeve that hasn't been revealed to the audience.
As it is, it's kind of odd that Euron's fleet and Daeny's fleet are only separated by a couple miles. Dragonstone splits the entrance to Blackwater Bay, with about 50 miles of open sea to the north, and 50 miles of open sea to the south. It'd be really hard for either fleet to go unnoticed, let alone unnoticed to each other. Even if you double that open space, still hard to miss 1000 ships.
Also, the people of Westeros need to come up with another number besides 1000 to sound impressive. 1000 ships, 1000 years. Everything was "1000" last episode.
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Pretty sure that's so folks on the internets can think they sound smart. "I figured out the key to the entire series it has to do with the number 1000!"
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Conveniently ignored logistics of getting the Iron Fleet to King's Landing. The bigger problem, beyond the fact that the iron islands are probably entirely vacant after the Yara loyalists stole a few hundred ships and Euron built a thousand, is that the fleet sailed *ALL THE WAY AROUND WESTEROS* to get to KL. It passed through Lannister waters in the Westernlands, passed through Tyrell waters in the Reach, through Martell waters in Dorne, and then up through the gap in the mouth of the Blackwater Bay and up to KL. That is months of travel time and the seaside nations would have been trimming the pirate population every step of the way.
Anyway, set photos and whatnot tell you his gift:
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A certain horn?
The horn is such a significant macguffin in the books, its too late in the game to randomly introduce it without a season or two foreshadowing its power. Also, the show has completely excised the fact that Euron lost his mind dabbling in the occult in Old Valyria. He's just a cartoon villain in the show, no wizard companions, no summer islander slaves to die after blowing the horn, etc.
The show has gotten rid of so much of the relevant mythology that Martin has saddled the forthcoming War with. They removed the Horn of Jorramun from the Mance Rayder plot, which removes half of the subtext of Euron's dragon horn, and makes the whole ice dragon under the wall / under Winterfell myths even more unlikely to be a part of the show. We have 3 wargs at this point in the books (if they all live to *this point in the show*), wheras on TV, Jon hasn't warged in what, 3 or 4 seasons and Arya hasn't had her first wolf dream of Nym eating hundreds of Lannister troops.
The likelihood of them bringing in Euron's dragon horn at this point is just so low, in my opinion. It may matter in the books, but just like Lady Stoneheart, Faegon, and the warlocks, it is superfluous mythology to whatever they're doing in the show, because we're not being whacked over the head with it every two episodes to keep it fresh in our minds.
The TV show has many problems with logic and logistics, but I'm not too fussed on the ironborn thing. The ironborn have a far larger fleet than anyone else in the TV show, the Redwyne Fleet of the Arbor and the Reach effectively doesn't exist on TV and Dorne and the Stormlands are not even remotely sea powers.
A bigger problem is how Euron built such a huge fleet so quickly after Yara and Theon stole most of his existing support and considering that there aren't many trees on the Iron Islands.
Nanomachines, Son.
A bigger problem is how Euron built such a huge fleet so quickly after Yara and Theon stole most of his existing support and considering that there aren't many trees on the Iron Islands.
The same way they get anything else they need: raid iron island adjacent areas.
Conveniently ignored logistics of getting the Iron Fleet to King's Landing.
Doesn't even include the time and resources needed to build "1000" ships when they live on rocky islands with little/no suitable timber and little/no means of producing the sail fabric.
Edit: Damn eyeballs rolling 1s again.
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Haha. Totally called imaginary grammar in a made up fantasy language. 50 geek points.
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She's been on the riverlands diet of deer, dead horse, live horse dead soldier, live soldier. And there are a LOT of those around.
Anyone know if "talk the thrones/after the thrones" is somewhere other than periscope or twitter? That video player is horrible and won't play.
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wow is yuron cartoony.
Pffft. This Euron is nothing compared to Book!Euron whose practically an Olds Gods Antipaladin with a pirate theme.
Maybe she meta-emotional rather than physical. It could be in fact that Arya is no longer Arya rather than the wolf being different?
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Wow Nym is a lot bigger than Ghost last time we saw him in s6e1.Didn't she say "it isn't you" as the wolf turned and walked away?
I heard it as, "That isn't you," as in not in your character. Maybe Arya ended the episode with a moment of ecce lupus and decided that as glad as she is to hear that the Starks are once again in Winterfell, there's still a queen who needs to be assassinated in King's landing.
I mean, my pet theory is that Arya's going to show up in Winterfell and say, "Wait, Littlefinger's here? I'm totally murdering that guy! Relax sis, I can just wear his face around afterwards, the Knights of the Vale won't be a problem." I've been wrong before, though.
Yeah I agree with the "That isn't You" line being more about Arya than it is about Nymeria. She's realized that she can't really return to being a "Lady" of the Stark house any more, shes beyond that.
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Wow Nym is a lot bigger than Ghost last time we saw him in s6e1.Didn't she say "it isn't you" as the wolf turned and walked away?
"Going back to winterfel and being Arya's puppy again" isn't who she is now.
Which probably means Arya's going to turn south and head for Kings Landing.
Y'know, I hadn't really considered till now, but I would LOVE to see a duel to death between the Arya Stark, the Half-Trained Water Dancer and Jaime Lannister, the Handless Wonder. It sounds silly, but that could be an excellent fight.